The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - Reincarnation

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somitomi
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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby somitomi » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:49 am UTC

heuristically_alone wrote:
bessie wrote:How do you know your powers are on the weak end of the spectrum if you have no clue of the other powers in the game?

Would you disagree with my power being on the weaker end?

I don't think she does, especially since we don't even know one of them. It isn't about whether any of the two statements are true, it's that both cannot be true.
Vicarin wrote:##somitomi

As an incentive.

Oh come on :roll:
heuristically_alone wrote:Also I could not forsee or think of any circumstance that benefits town in knowing parity numbers, while it benefits mafia immensly to know, even more so D3.

I think that parity numbers benefiting mafia is why town might need to know about them later, especially because if there's two mafia they already slightly ahead of town by knowing the parity of two players.
(Huh, come to think of it, none of the setup posts say jack about whether mafia has day or nightchat. Do they not have chat?)
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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:54 am UTC

##unvote

wam is likely Town. Maven and somitomi probably are too.

##Vicarin

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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:58 am UTC

wam wrote:
Maven89 wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:
Why do you think 5-2 is more likely than 6-1?


I missed this question before, but I want Wam to answer this


Do I really have to explain why 6-1 , is unlikely?


In a setup with no power roles at all 6-1 is actually a roughly balanced setup (54% Town win rate). 5-2 is extremely scumsided (20% Town win rate).

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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby Vicarin » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:02 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:In a setup with no power roles at all 6-1 is actually a roughly balanced setup (54% Town win rate). 5-2 is extremely scumsided (20% Town win rate).


Right, but it's not exactly fun to just randomly find the single mafia immediately and then have the game be over. Also, we know that there's plenty of power roles so those stats are kind of meaningless.

##unvote

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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby Vicarin » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:17 am UTC

somitomi wrote:(Huh, come to think of it, none of the setup posts say jack about whether mafia has day or nightchat. Do they not have chat?)


Oh yeah, asked about that and got a no-comment.

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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby somitomi » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:20 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:In a setup with no power roles at all 6-1 is actually a roughly balanced setup (54% Town win rate). 5-2 is extremely scumsided (20% Town win rate).

I'm not sure if those stats work here considering the mafia win condition is quite unusual. The fact that mafia can win without being the majority makes me feel like 6-1 is possible though, but that has the problem Vicarin and wam pointed out.
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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:21 am UTC

Cool, Vic is Town too.

##unvote
##heuristically_alone

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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby wam » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:58 am UTC

So laser does that make the other two scum?
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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby heuristically_alone » Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:02 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:@h_a: do you think that it's worthwhile to claim parity positions in the situation I outlined in my first post?

A trip to disneyland would be way more worthwhile. But just reread your first post and I understand where you're coming from. At 3-1 that would mean all the 3 tiers will still have a parity number alive. P7 should probably claim if they happen to be town. (Though at 3-1 I would be nost inclined to vote P7 anyways). Assuming P7 is dead, maybe instead of claiming our current state, whether positive or negative, maybe better to claim what our state begab as. As long as we didn't all start as positive or negative we are probably fine. And if someome's state was changed at some point during the game maybe just they claim their current state.


somitomi wrote:
heuristically_alone wrote:
bessie wrote:How do you know your powers are on the weak end of the spectrum if you have no clue of the other powers in the game?

Would you disagree with my power being on the weaker end?

I don't think she does, especially since we don't even know one of them. It isn't about whether any of the two statements are true, it's that both cannot be true.

Town probably has 10 powers, possibly just 8. I'd wager that both my powers compared to other town would be seen as weaker than at least 4 or 5 other powers.

somitomi wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:In a setup with no power roles at all 6-1 is actually a roughly balanced setup (54% Town win rate). 5-2 is extremely scumsided (20% Town win rate).

I'm not sure if those stats work here considering the mafia win condition is quite unusual. The fact that mafia can win without being the majority makes me feel like 6-1 is possible though, but that has the problem Vicarin and wam pointed out.


Best case scenario (for them) is that mafia only need 3 dead, but that also involves the right specific players being dead, so still hard for mafia to win without majority.

LaserGuy wrote:##unvote

wam is likely Town. Maven and somitomi probably are too.

##Vicarin


I am reading maven and somi as town, but null for wam. What makes you think wam is town?
Vicarin wrote:
somitomi wrote:(Huh, come to think of it, none of the setup posts say jack about whether mafia has day or nightchat. Do they not have chat?)


Oh yeah, asked about that and got a no-comment.

This pinged me

The interaction between laser and wam at the beginning felt like it was not scum vs scum, so I dont think they together are the scum team.
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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby Vicarin » Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:33 pm UTC

heuristically_alone wrote:A trip to disneyland would be way more worthwhile. But just reread your first post and I understand where you're coming from. At 3-1 that would mean all the 3 tiers will still have a parity number alive. P7 should probably claim if they happen to be town. (Though at 3-1 I would be nost inclined to vote P7 anyways). Assuming P7 is dead, maybe instead of claiming our current state, whether positive or negative, maybe better to claim what our state begab as. As long as we didn't all start as positive or negative we are probably fine. And if someome's state was changed at some point during the game maybe just they claim their current state.


I don't really understand what you're saying, the one I outlined was a 3 town, 1 scum situation in which there's 3 + and 1 - remaining, so presumably P7 would be dead. I'm also not understanding the point of claiming original states instead of current states in that situation, seeing as the parity table is public knowledge.

heuristically_alone wrote:Best case scenario (for them) is that mafia only need 3 dead, but that also involves the right specific players being dead, so still hard for mafia to win without majority.


Uh, how can mafia win with only 3 dead? With the starting states of 3 +, 3 - (each paired) and 1 =, that means 4 people can't all be the same state, right? Or is this just because of them gaining control of the vote?

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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby heuristically_alone » Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:42 pm UTC

Are you saying you know for sure P7 can't be mafia? And yea, I forgot about parity table' status being common knowledge so everything I said ia kinda pointless.

And we don't know what = means or if mafia can win with it alive. So it could be that only 3 need to be dead.
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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby Vicarin » Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:02 pm UTC

heuristically_alone wrote:Are you saying you know for sure P7 can't be mafia? And yea, I forgot about parity table' status being common knowledge so everything I said ia kinda pointless.

And we don't know what = means or if mafia can win with it alive. So it could be that only 3 need to be dead.


I have no idea how you got the idea that I was implying that P7 can't be mafia, I was giving an example of a situation in which I think it's beneficial to claim + and - states. If the game starts as 5-2 and becomes 3-1 due to P7 and 2 others dying, that doesn't say anything about whether P7 is scum or not.

I asked Zenii about what what was up with the = state and he just said it wasn't +ve and it wasn't -ve. So presumably it existing is annoying for the mafia.

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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:19 pm UTC

heuristically_alone wrote:I am reading maven and somi as town, but null for wam. What makes you think wam is town?


Although I think his initial questions are both self-evident and not particularly helpful to Town, I think his reasons for asking them are probably Town-motivated. wam is much more careful in his posting as scum and probably would have given more thought to how his questions would be interpreted.

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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby bessie » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:20 pm UTC

heuristically_alone wrote:My confidence in everything I say is what attracts all the ladies to me. Also I could not forsee or think of any circumstance that benefits town in knowing parity numbers, while it benefits mafia immensly to know, even more so D3.

Nope, pretty sure it is your devastatingly good looks. And heury, there might be a situation where knowing parity numbers could help narrow down mafia (see Maven’s post). But it’s definitely not something that we should happen an D1.

heuristically_alone wrote:Would you disagree with my power being on the weaker end?

I would agree that miller is not a desirable power, but as to it being on the weaker end, I can’t say without knowing more of the powers in the game. And the setup.

wam wrote:Two reasons 1) a solitary person with a kill is not mafia they are a sk. 2) a game that can end day 1 is not a sensible game.

I was the lone mafia goon in Best Idea Mafia (always thought of it as serial killer though, but technically was mafia, and there was another anti town faction). And wam, with all the games you have modded (and played), can you not think of an interesting setup that starts with with six town and one non-town?

Will reply to P2 content tonight.

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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:23 pm UTC

wam wrote:So laser does that make the other two scum?


I have bessie at null and heury as scum at the moment.

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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby wam » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:37 pm UTC

@Bessie

Probably have played one but I don't have your notes/memory for games!
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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby somitomi » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:16 pm UTC

heuristically_alone wrote:Best case scenario (for them) is that mafia only need 3 dead, but that also involves the right specific players being dead, so still hard for mafia to win without majority.

Yes, but winning after only three deaths is possible even if only one mafia is left at that point and the same goes for a mafia win after four deaths.
LaserGuy wrote:Cool, Vic is Town too.

Did you turn into Sabrar? :P
Vicarin wrote:I asked Zenii about what what was up with the = state and he just said it wasn't +ve and it wasn't -ve. So presumably it existing is annoying for the mafia.

That would mean P7 is probably town with a big target painted on them.
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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby wam » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:25 pm UTC

Ok so I'm liking laser's content, seems good to me. Somi is talking more than I am used to but I think its town indiciative.

Bessie is bessie and I can't read her aas either alignment so is neutral. Huery I haven't got a read on yet.

Vicarin has a few things that a pinging me. MAven as well, with only 2 posts the second being a weird one (IMOP).

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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby Vicarin » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:18 pm UTC

Perfectly happy with prodding Maven until he posts some more.

@bessie + Maven: what are your current reads?

somitomi wrote:Yes, but winning after only three deaths is possible even if only one mafia is left at that point and the same goes for a mafia win after four deaths.


How exactly does scum win with a solo member with only 3 deaths overall? I'm not seeing any way to get 4 people into the same state.

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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:59 pm UTC

@Zen: Any chance we could have a deadline counter?

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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby heuristically_alone » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:16 am UTC

wam wrote:##unvote

##sabrar


Just testing a theory


Rather curious about what theory you could have been testing. Care to share?


somitomi wrote:
Vicarin wrote:I asked Zenii about what what was up with the = state and he just said it wasn't +ve and it wasn't -ve. So presumably it existing is annoying for the mafia.

That would mean P7 is probably town with a big target painted on them.


Well I'm decently confident at least that Somi is not indie. Still town leaning.

Null on Bessie, but feels like normal townie Bessie we're used to.

And I admit now there are plausible situations in where claiming parity numbers could be beneficial.
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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby Zenii » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:34 am UTC

Zenii wrote:Guys. Something has come up. Trying to think the best way to go about this. Stay tuned.

There's a personal matter I need to take care of and I may need to put the game on pause at some point, particularly this weekend. I will let you guys know if it's looking to be the case. Answering questions/fulling requests now.

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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby Evil George Washington » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:46 am UTC

LOL. I thought I had to play. :lol: Enjoy and have fun guys.

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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby Zenii » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:52 am UTC

Yeah guys I need to put this on hold for now. A family member may be passing and we're heading out the state to see 'em. I Also need to out heury's game for the moment. I'm really sorry. The game isn't designed to last longer than a couple of weeks, so if enough of you are up for it, we can still continue when I return.

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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:21 am UTC

I'm sorry Zen. I hope the best for your family.

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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby Evil George Washington » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:26 am UTC

Same, sorry to hear that. I'll try to help as much as I can with the game. Family first.

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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby bessie » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:46 am UTC

Zen, take care of your family. If/when you feel like finishing your game, we will be here when you get back. And I am looking forward to playing a game with you in the future.

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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby LaserGuy » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:12 am UTC

Very sorry to hear that, Zen.

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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby wam » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:26 am UTC

Sorry to hear that Zen. Real life and family takes priority.
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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby somitomi » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:39 am UTC

Sorry to hear that, Zen, I wish you the best.
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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby heuristically_alone » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:44 pm UTC

Best wishes to you. I know what it's like. It sucks.
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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby Maven89 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:36 am UTC

Zenii wrote:Yeah guys I need to put this on hold for now.


Image

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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - D1 Begins!

Postby Zenii » Sat May 12, 2018 5:05 am UTC

Thank you guys : )

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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - Postponed Infinitely Indefinitely

Postby bessie » Sat May 12, 2018 8:47 pm UTC

Best of luck to you, Zenii. <3 you. :)

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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - Postponed Infinitely Indefinitely

Postby Madge » Mon May 14, 2018 4:39 am UTC

Thinking of you Zennii. Don't sweat about this game.

Depending on specifics (i.e. whether I can work out how the game's meant to be played from spoilers and role PMs), I (or someone else) could finish modding this game if there was demand / it wasn't considered disrespectful.
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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - Postponed Infinitely Indefinitely

Postby moody7277 » Mon May 14, 2018 12:45 pm UTC

That's not unprecedented. SDK ended up finishing modding the Jane Austen mafia game that the original mod couldn't.
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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - Postponed Infinitely Indefinitely

Postby Zenii » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:17 pm UTC

Would you guys like to continue this? I would just need to refigure out past-zen's mindet. Roles would be the same, but we'd start d1's clock over.

PM me if you're interested! Will probably need some replacements if maven & heury aren't around.

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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - Postponed Infinitely Indefinitely

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:30 pm UTC

I'd be interested and I can replace in. :D
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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - Postponed Infinitely Indefinitely

Postby Maven89 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:30 am UTC

Zenii wrote:Would you guys like to continue this? I would just need to refigure out past-zen's mindet. Roles would be the same, but we'd start d1's clock over.

PM me if you're interested! Will probably need some replacements if maven & heury aren't around.


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Re: The Seven Deadly Zens Mafia - Postponed Infinitely Indefinitely

Postby Maven89 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:31 am UTC

Zenii wrote:Would you guys like to continue this? I would just need to refigure out past-zen's mindet. Roles would be the same, but we'd start d1's clock over.

PM me if you're interested! Will probably need some replacements if maven & heury aren't around.


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