Alien Warfare Mafia (GAME OVER)

For your simulated organized crime needs.

Moderators: jestingrabbit, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
wam
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:08 am UTC
Location: South England

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby wam » Tue May 01, 2018 12:57 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
wam wrote:NO :twisted:

You're a big help... :roll:
sorry couldn't resist.i have the same issue but in my case it's normally me not explaining stuff properly.

I agree actually with you that omgus woild be clouding your judgement. However I also feel that scum sabrar would know town sabrar wouif say that and could use it as an excuse. Basically your a good enough player to fake most things!
Come join us playing mafia signup here

User avatar
Vicarin
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:45 am UTC
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Vicarin » Tue May 01, 2018 1:05 pm UTC

Mark_Cangila wrote:
Vicarin wrote:Sabrar didn't respond directly, do you understand what I jumped on in his first post, and why?

I understand why. There is something in the wincon that means that it is bad to tell scum the town wincon.


Going by this and your more recent posts, I'm pretty sure that you have the wrong idea for why I jumped on Sabrar for his first post. It wasn't for his talking about the win conditions in general and who knows them.

User avatar
freezeblade
Posts: 1251
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:11 pm UTC
Location: Oakland

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby freezeblade » Tue May 01, 2018 2:55 pm UTC

Note: I wrote this yesterday and left my computer at work without pressing send apparently. Pressed send now without editing.

wam wrote:@freeze it only started this morning were just going st a 100 miles an hour in terms of content.

I noticed. I signed in this morning, certainly not expecting >2 pages of content.

re: Sabrar stuff
I'm actually coming to the opinion that Sabrar has some kind of ability that is activated once there is a certain number of votes on them, or one who's targets needed to have voted for them the previous day. I agree that that sort of "sloppy play" is very un-Sabrar-like. Smells of gambit.

ninja Jimbobmacdoodle:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:For balance reasons, I don't believe it likely that scum don't have the human faction PM, having thought about it a bit more. However, I think it's possible that one or more other factions (indies?) don't for whatever reason, with part of their challenge having to be to figure it out somehow.
I feel like I am uniquely qualified to address this (as I've been scum very often on these forms. Infamous for it it seems). Of the last 10 games where I have played mafia/nontown There has been 0 indication of what the town's win condition may be in any of the role PMs, some of these games had non-bog-standard town win conditions, some of them didn't list town's win condition in the opening post.
Belial wrote:I am not even in the same country code as "the mood for this shit."

Mark_Cangila
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:34 pm UTC

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Mark_Cangila » Tue May 01, 2018 3:49 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle towards plytho wrote:Please explain what you find suspicious about Sabrar, and why his posts don't absolve him of that suspicion, as much as you can without giving away the town win con.
@Mark_Canglia - please could you answer this question too, and also about Vicarin. Please don't just quote other people's reasons, but try to put it in your own words.

On the Sabrar point, they don't absolve him because he doesn't answer the question. He didn't update or answer what he did wrong. I also agree it seems odd. He should at least bluff something. It does look like he's trying to get lynched. On the Vicarin point, I think I sorta overreacted at the point about the win con.

UnFoS: Vicarin

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 01, 2018 3:57 pm UTC

@bessie, freezeblade, jimbob, LaserGuy: what is your opinion about the possibility of vote-changing mechanics not showing up in the votals?

User avatar
wam
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:08 am UTC
Location: South England

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby wam » Tue May 01, 2018 4:07 pm UTC

Why those 4?

My thoughts are that having vote changing roles not in votals is beyond minimal bastardry.
Come join us playing mafia signup here

User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4517
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby LaserGuy » Tue May 01, 2018 4:11 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:@bessie, freezeblade, jimbob, LaserGuy: what is your opinion about the possibility of vote-changing mechanics not showing up in the votals?


heuristically_alone wrote:Bastardry: Minimal (intel reports there may be vote changing mechanics that may or may not be visible in votals)


Seems somewhat likely to me that there are hidden voting mechanics of some kind given the OP. I noted this here as well.

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 01, 2018 4:18 pm UTC

I'm fully aware of the op, I asked how you feel about it.

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 01, 2018 4:19 pm UTC

@wam: I have my reasons for that specific list and I will reveal it later.

User avatar
Liri
Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
Posts: 1113
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Liri » Tue May 01, 2018 4:27 pm UTC

What do hidden voting mechanics look like? Someone PMs their vote to the mod so we don't know when L-1 (that's the term, right?) is reached? Or secret vote-changing?

Since heury let us know it might be in here, it doesn't strike me as horribly bastard. But, y'know, if there aren't those mechanics, it's wiggy to mess with us, but, heck, that's the game.
There's a certain amount of freedom involved in cycling: you're self-propelled and decide exactly where to go. If you see something that catches your eye to the left, you can veer off there, which isn't so easy in a car, and you can't cover as much ground walking.

User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4517
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby LaserGuy » Tue May 01, 2018 4:35 pm UTC

Liri wrote:What do hidden voting mechanics look like? Someone PMs their vote to the mod so we don't know when L-1 (that's the term, right?) is reached? Or secret vote-changing?


It could be something like that, yes. flicky had a similar sort of power in Secret Santa (was never used, IIRC).
LaserGuy wrote:Elf Journalist (Town)

Hidden doublevoter: You have an extra, hidden vote. PM the mods with the action Hidden Vote: <Player> and we will add an extra vote to that player in the votals. If you wish to make your ability public, you may also give Hidden Vote: <Player> or Double Vote: <player> commands in thread. You do not need to vote the same player with your second vote. You may change your hidden vote as often as you would like, just like a regular vote.

User avatar
freezeblade
Posts: 1251
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:11 pm UTC
Location: Oakland

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby freezeblade » Tue May 01, 2018 5:25 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:@bessie, freezeblade, jimbob, LaserGuy: what is your opinion about the possibility of vote-changing mechanics not showing up in the votals?


I feel like any vote-changing mechanics which don't show up in the votals counts at minimum as light bastardy. Ones where the mechanic is public, known, or attributed when they happen are less bastardy, and more acceptable for low-bastardy games.

What's the motivation for bringing up this? vote-changing powers are pretty uncommon around these parts IIRC.
Belial wrote:I am not even in the same country code as "the mood for this shit."

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 01, 2018 5:30 pm UTC

freezeblade wrote:What's the motivation for bringing up this?
Patience, young grasshopper.

BTW LaserGuy was included by mistake in that list, he can continue to avoid the question if he really wants to.

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 01, 2018 5:31 pm UTC

Cue the angry mob: "Sabrar doesn't make mistakes, he must be scum!!!444!!!"

User avatar
wam
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:08 am UTC
Location: South England

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby wam » Tue May 01, 2018 5:32 pm UTC

I'm going the other way. I'm trying to not be impatient and am waiting to see where your going with this.
Come join us playing mafia signup here

User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4517
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby LaserGuy » Tue May 01, 2018 6:32 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
freezeblade wrote:What's the motivation for bringing up this?
Patience, young grasshopper.

BTW LaserGuy was included by mistake in that list, he can continue to avoid the question if he really wants to.


How did I avoid your question? You asked about my opinion of the possibility of seeing such mechanics. I said I thought it was somewhat likely that we would see something of that nature given the OP. That's a straightforward answer to the question that you asked.

To answer the other thing, I don't really care that much about classifying different mechanics in terms of levels of bastardry because everyone has their own opinion about what is or isn't fair information to provide, and ultimately it's the mod's discretion as to what features to include. As long as the mod gives fair warning about what types of things to expect in the game (even if it's just "This game is highly bastard... expect anything"), then I'm fine with it. I might be a little upset if the mod hadn't accounted for such things in terms of balancing the game (e.g. if a specific mechanic is very likely to result in a mislynch, then the mod should give Town an extra opportunity somehow to make up for that), but beyond that I don't feel it's something to worry about.

User avatar
Maven89
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:38 pm UTC

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Maven89 » Tue May 01, 2018 6:41 pm UTC

Sabrar what do you think about Wam's vote on you?

User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4517
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby LaserGuy » Tue May 01, 2018 7:05 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
Sabrar wrote:BTW the setup must be a combination of Shakespeare III and Cross-over but similarly to those I don't think it's balanced.


So, given this, why did you FoS me at the start of the day? Was it not obvious to you that posting your setup spec would immediately draw a reaction from Town? Like, if you'd said this was a gambit, I might have believed you up to a certain point, but this strikes me more as you being kind of oblivious, which is very un-Sabrar-like.


Speaking of dodging questions, can you answer the bolded part of this?

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 01, 2018 7:14 pm UTC

Maven89 wrote:Sabrar what do you think about Wam's vote on you?
I'm at a point when people keep inventing new reasons to vote me no matter what I do. wam interprets me talking about setup as backing down (I disagree), plytho and Mark_Cangila think otherwise. I think wam's vote is at the very least misguided but whether it is genuine I will be hopefully able to tell when he brings up those previous examples from which he thought I would never do such a thing.

LaserGuy wrote:Was it not obvious to you that posting your setup spec would immediately draw a reaction from Town?
I have two constant issues.
1. I always believe everyone thinks like me and understands my meaning. As in Stellaris I thought it would be obvious that the post was a joke and Town would show restraint until they can clarify it. Clearly I was wrong again.
2. I am very reluctant to let anything go to waste. If I prepare a post then I will use it even if circumstances change. Can give you past examples if you want.

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 01, 2018 7:21 pm UTC

@LaserGuy: BTW you dodged my question again. As we've already clarified with bessie (and also could have been inferred from elsewhere) I did indeed read the op and was aware of the possibility of the mechanic. Therefore your 'straightforward' answer was not a proper response, evidence is wam who interpreted it correctly (though I somewhat hoped others wouldn't answer it). Your second 'answer' talks about mechanics in general and how it could be or not be classified as bastardy. It contains no info about how you actually feel regarding this particular mechanic.

User avatar
wam
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:08 am UTC
Location: South England

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby wam » Tue May 01, 2018 7:24 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
Maven89 wrote:Sabrar what do you think about Wam's vote on you?
I'm at a point when people keep inventing new reasons to vote me no matter what I do. wam interprets me talking about setup as backing down (I disagree), plytho and Mark_Cangila think otherwise. I think wam's vote is at the very least misguided but whether it is genuine I will be hopefully able to tell when he brings up those previous examples from which he thought I would never do such a thing.

Its taking a while!
Come join us playing mafia signup here

User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4517
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby LaserGuy » Tue May 01, 2018 7:28 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:@LaserGuy: BTW you dodged my question again. As we've already clarified with bessie (and also could have been inferred from elsewhere) I did indeed read the op and was aware of the possibility of the mechanic. Therefore your 'straightforward' answer was not a proper response, evidence is wam who interpreted it correctly (though I somewhat hoped others wouldn't answer it). Your second 'answer' talks about mechanics in general and how it could be or not be classified as bastardy. It contains no info about how you actually feel regarding this particular mechanic.


It should be obvious from context. I don't have a problem with it one way or the other as long as the game has been balanced accordingly to account for it.

User avatar
plytho
¡This cheese is burning me!
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:23 pm UTC

Re: Re:

Postby plytho » Tue May 01, 2018 8:46 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
plytho wrote:More suspicious is Sabrar’s defense which is much less ‘I know exactly what you’re talking about but I’m not pointing it out for reasons’ and more like stalling while everyone is spilling information up to the point where making an educated guess has become low risk.
Please point out all the information that has been spilled before my updated setup-claim.
I'm naturally hesitant to share any information with scum when I don't absolutely have to so I'd rather not at this point (examples of this are available in previous games). I know I'm trying to hide the elephant in the room here but I'm not going to be the one to point it out explicitly. I've written up my post though so as soon as that elephant is out there I can post it (and that information on the first two pages isn't going anywhere).
Pronouns: he him his
Avatar: The High Frontier by Angus McKie

User avatar
plytho
¡This cheese is burning me!
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:23 pm UTC

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby plytho » Tue May 01, 2018 9:28 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:@bessie, freezeblade, jimbob, LaserGuy: what is your opinion about the possibility of vote-changing mechanics not showing up in the votals?

That’s the kind of stuff I expect from Sabrar.

A couple of his other posts do feel more like he’s trying to dismiss accusations towards him as baseless while ignoring the legitimate concerns.

freezeblade wrote:re: Sabrar stuff
I'm actually coming to the opinion that Sabrar has some kind of ability that is activated once there is a certain number of votes on them, or one who's targets needed to have voted for them the previous day. I agree that that sort of "sloppy play" is very un-Sabrar-like. Smells of gambit.
So in your opinion Sabrar has probably activated that ability? How did you come to this opinion?


People I like:
Vicarin
Maven
LaserGuy
Mark

People I’m weary of:
Sabrar
Wam


Null:
Liri
SDK
Mpolo
Bessie
Jimbob
Freezeblade

Wam is more suspicious to me than Sabrar.
Pronouns: he him his
Avatar: The High Frontier by Angus McKie

User avatar
heuristically_alone
Posts: 278
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:43 pm UTC
Location: 37.2368078 and -115.80341870000001

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby heuristically_alone » Tue May 01, 2018 9:39 pm UTC

What happens if votals aren't tied at deadline? Is it majority at deadline?

Yes. The player with the most votes on them will be lynched at deadline.

OP updated under Voting Rules
Bow gifted by adnapemit.

You can learn to levitate with just a little help.

:idea: = Surprised Cyclops

User avatar
Maven89
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:38 pm UTC

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Maven89 » Tue May 01, 2018 9:40 pm UTC

plytho wrote:Wam is more suspicious to me than Sabrar.


What chance do you put them as being partners?

User avatar
plytho
¡This cheese is burning me!
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:23 pm UTC

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby plytho » Tue May 01, 2018 9:51 pm UTC

Maven89 wrote:
plytho wrote:Wam is more suspicious to me than Sabrar.


What chance do you put them as being partners?

I have no idea at this point. I'm looking at individual scumminess this early D1. I'd probably bet against them being buddies right now.
Pronouns: he him his
Avatar: The High Frontier by Angus McKie

User avatar
jimbobmacdoodle
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:40 pm UTC
Location: NP 811/The Present

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue May 01, 2018 9:57 pm UTC

This will likely be my only full reread for D1, but I think there's enough to go on to do a basic one. Notes in spoiler as always.

bessie:
Spoiler:
Asks Vicarin for setup speculation. Hums at Sabrar's setup post. Discusses with Sabrar over bastardry/town win con posting. Votes Sabrar for not being town, and asks for updated spec. Finds discussion following Sabrar's setup spec more interesting than the spec itself. Notes that not all of Sabrar's post was composed before receiving role PM. Asks wam to explain further re. comments about Vicarin's post. Disagrees re. pre-game posts. Initial read of Vicarin was scum. Asks Sabrar about mod messing with heads comment versus non-bastard game. Could see mod not giving non-town factions town win con. Not ignoring Liri's question. Sabrar stubborn regardless of alignment. Wondering about wam asking for others opinions, and suggesting link between her and Sabrar. Wants to know SDK's opinion on pro-town indie. Thinks Maven is fishing too hard. Muses on role PM discussion. Wam comments spin of her question to him.
I'm about 95% certain bessie has access to the town win condition. Lacking any more information, however, I don't think that necessarily clears her as town. However, some of her comments relating to that that do make me think she likely is, because I'm not sure that scum!bessie would make these sort of comments. I can't point to specific points, it's more just the general feel of what she said. Nothing particularly stands out otherwise with her play. Maybe Town.

FreezeBlade:
Spoiler:
Thinks Sabrar has ability that activates once has many votes on him. Previously no indication of town win con in scum role PM. Hidden vote-changing mechanics are at least light bastardry. Asks Sabrar about reason for bringing up.
Not much to go on here. No indication from his comments re. receiving the town win condition. No obvious opinions yet, but this is normal for freezeblade D1, especially this early. I do like him asking Sabrar about why he asked about voting abilities, but there's not really enough to put a label on yet.
freezeblade wrote:I feel like I am uniquely qualified to address this (as I've been scum very often on these forms. Infamous for it it seems). Of the last 10 games where I have played mafia/nontown There has been 0 indication of what the town's win condition may be in any of the role PMs, some of these games had non-bog-standard town win conditions, some of them didn't list town's win condition in the opening post.
FWIW, most recent games have had the town role PM sent to the mafia, or is posted publicly by the mod.

LaserGuy:
Spoiler:
Sabrar and bessie opening posts ping him. Votes Sabrar. Vic is obvtown. Challenges wam on "everyone" finding Vic town. bessie and Maven looking town. Thinks Sabrar knows he doesn't have information that town does. He would understand the difference re. role PM discussion if town. Continues to challenge Sabrar - thinks he's oblivious. Thinks MC town. Asks SDK how he sees a pro-town indie fitting in. Willing to give indie thoughts. Points out better nobody else votes Sabrar. Somewhat likely hidden voting mechanics, and gives example. Doesn't think he avoided answering the question re. hidden voting. Not hung up on bastardry levels. Repeats question to Sabrar. No problem with hidden voting mechanics as long as balanced.
I have no problems with LaserGuy. Indications are that he has access to the town role PM. Generally feels like he's saying things that town would be more likely to say, although it's still early days. Maybe Town.

Liri:
Spoiler:
Scum not having win-con would mean somthing's wonky. Thinks Sabrar being quite strongly defensive. Difficult to keep track of others. Asks about hidden voting mechanics.
Not much content here yet, and certainly not enough to draw any conclusions on, but he is new. I'm a little confused by this statement:
Liri wrote:If scum don't know the win-con, then I'd assume there's something wonky
@Liri - what do you mean by wonky in this context? As in is the game unusual/unbalanced/bastard etc?

Mark_Cangila:
Spoiler:
Scheming/discussion is odd. Asks Sabrar about why he brought up scum having win condition. Votes Sabrar, but unvotes, then fosses Vicarin after Sabrar clarified that Vicarin brought up the scum having the town role PM. Votes Sabrar (pretty suspicious), but so is Vic. Thinks Vic and Sabrar could be working together. Scum might have day chat. Suspicious of Vic and Sabrar for win con discussion. Understands why Vic jumped on Sabrar "something in the wincon means bad to tell scum town wincon". Saying wincon would defeat the point. Thinks Sabrar is trying to get lynched. Overreacted towards Vicarin.
Generally feeling is that Mark_Cangila is willing, but uncertain townie. I don't really get a newbie scum vibe from him. An indie without access to the town win condition is certainly also plausible, due to his comments surrounding the revealing of the win condition. Only really mentioned Sabrar and Vicarin though.

@Mark_Cangila: Please pick at least two players other than Sabrar or Vicarin to look at in a little more depth and explain what you think of them and why.

Maven89:
Spoiler:
Noticed issue with Sabrar's post; would be willing for quick lynch. Re-reviewed this and role PM, and decides not as problematic. Finds Sabrar's refusal to answer about what was bad damning. Asks bessie and wam to double check Sabrar's post doesn't prove anything. Wants to call dibs on posting human win condition. Talks about quoting wording in PM versus info. Thinks wam's responses are too vague, suggests no idea what actually being talked about. Discusses with Mark re. Vic versus Sabrar. Uncertain how to take MC comments re. wincon/bad to reveal it. Misread bessie's post on Sabrar. Thinks benefits of claiming win con far outway cost, but changes mind, as mafia not knowing it might be an advantage. Prods Freezeblade and Liri. Asks Sabrar for his opinion on wam vote on him.
Maven89 wrote:It's likely they have day chat, that's the norm for mafia
Side point: although it's been the norm recently for scum to have day chat, it certainly wasn't previously, so don't assume that the apparent lack of day chat between two players implies that they aren't scum buddies.

I'm liking Maven's content so far. He seems to be pursuing sensible lines of enquiry, thinking about multiple people etc. He definitely has access to the town win condition, although this doesn't make him guaranteed town. Still, likely town in my opinion.

@Maven - why would claiming the town win condition give you a town pass?

mpolo:
Spoiler:
Worried about cult mechanic. Doesn't want to push quick-lynch, but IGMEOYs Sabrar.
Not much content here. The IGMEOY on Sabrar is about it. The lack of explanation might suggest that it should be clear in his opinion why, and assuming it is for the reason I think it is, then I can understand it. No opinion as of yet.

@mpolo: Please explain your IGMEOY on Sabrar (or give a reason as to not to explain it).

plytho:
Spoiler:
Low content until Friday. Sabrar is suspicious, later posts don't absolve him. Maven volunteering to claim town win condition is weird. Thinks Sabrar's "slip" is neutral, but everything else is stalling. Sabrar is lacking scum-hunting. Asks Sabrar for non-Maven scum. Vic, Maven look good, Sabrar, wam not so much. Asks for explanation from wam re. Vic first post comments. Thinks town!Sabrar would be prodding more people under this kind of pressure. Made a list of what has been spilled about the setup already.
Not too much from plytho yet either, but his suspicion of Sabrar is understandable, and he explained himself well on this when I asked him about it. Maybe slightly town, although tracking what has been spilled by town is an interesting comment.

Sabrar:
Spoiler:
8-3-1-1 setup spec. Win condition comment by mod weird. Thinks discussing town win-condition not a mistake if scum can be found out by it. Asks LaserGuy to specify what pings him about Sabrar's first post. Doesn't think answering Vic's question re. town finding Sabrar's post unusual helpful. Votes Maven for quick lynch suggestion. Discusses with bessie re. bastardry. Trying to shake up meta. Pre-made posts are fun and shouldn't be taken seriously. Surprised by over-analysis of it. Won't discuss role-PMs. Believes scum received the town win-con. Keeps wanting to not discuss role-PMs. Setup combo of Shakespeare 3/Crossover. WoT2 no Town faction. Responds to LaserGuy re. FoS comments, and expects him to show some restraint. Not claiming to be infallible. Wants wam to explain backing down. Is easy target. MC not receiving advice from other players. Comments on bastardry of scum not receiving town win-con. Asks for thoughts from Liri, mpolo. Reacts angrily to plytho's accusation of lack of scum-hunting. Thinks SDK might be scum, maybe bessie, aside from Maven. Wants other non-Sabrar-focused content. Asks bessie/freezeblade/me/LG for opinion about possibility of vote-changing mechanics and not showing up in the votals. Thinks wam vote on him misguided at the least. Explains why he made his original post. LG's comments on the vote-mechanic question don't contain info about particular mechanic.
Sabrar wrote:From his posting I don't see Mark_Cangila receiving advice from other players so if scum has day-chat I think he's Town.
What about an independent?
Sabrar wrote:@bessie, freezeblade, jimbob, LaserGuy: what is your opinion about the possibility of vote-changing mechanics not showing up in the votals?
I have no personal issues with this, as long as it is balanced. I was one in Shakespeare 2, I think it was (no time to check), although I don't remember what the bastardry levels of that game were. I do think it means we have to be careful with what we do with our votes (i.e. don't put people at L-1 until we are ready for them to be lynched, but similarly, don't have two people next to each other approaching deadline, to avoid a tied vote). I think that if there are any then they won't be too dominating, maybe at most two such abilities, and probably nothing stronger than a hidden extra vote, possibly that has to be fixed at some point. Not sure what you hope to get out of this question though. I assume the answer will be forthcoming.

I've read through all of Sabrar's posts and I completely agree that he was being very defensive early on, to the detriment of most other content. I think that it's valid to some extent, but I do wonder about how touchy he appeared to get around the subject of the role PM and the information therein. I'm not convinced that this means that he didn't have the role PM, but on the other hand, the post that suggests that he did might just mean he has similar information to what is contained in the town win-con, and made an educated guess to throw people off. Slightly suspicious. Want to see more from him on other topics apart from about himself.

SDK:
Spoiler:
Thinks lack of role PM in OP could be used as a one-shot innocent child. Votes Sabrar though weird post not that big a deal? Maven, bessie probably town, wam flip-floppy. Unsure about Vicarin, but agrees with him on Sabrar. Thinks unlikely proper mafia not warned of trap, thinks maybe he could be indie. Doubts it is town!Sabrar sticking to his guns. Might need to reread the exchanges. Wam looks worse, doesn't like his comment re. scum knowing town win-con, and switches vote there. Asks him to better explain his thought process. Asks MC general questions re. wam, Sabrar, Vicarin, along with a couple of specific ones. Asks Sabrar what he asked the mod that delayed him.
I'm not sure about SDK. He's not said all that much, but I'm not sure why he bothered asking Sabrar about the mod question, and his comments re. meta don't seem to really have any purpose behind them either. I'm surprised he hasn't started drilling into somebody as much as I'd expect from him, but maybe that's just a) because he's getting back into the game, and b) we're not even 48 hours in, so maybe it's too early to tell. I'd like to see a little more concrete reasons for his suspicions on wam, if he has any. Slightly suspicious.

I've run out of time for the other two. I'll try to get to them on the bus in the morning tomorrow. Otherwise, no idea when I'll get a chance. Also not updated the above with posts from plytho's at 9.28pm UTC.
BlitzGirl the Primordial
matthewglen wrote:Cueball looks concerned.

Image

User avatar
Vicarin
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:45 am UTC
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Vicarin » Wed May 02, 2018 12:05 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Was it not obvious to you that posting your setup spec would immediately draw a reaction from Town?
I have two constant issues.
1. I always believe everyone thinks like me and understands my meaning. As in Stellaris I thought it would be obvious that the post was a joke and Town would show restraint until they can clarify it. Clearly I was wrong again.


I'm not quite sure what you thought my first two responses to you were for, but I was actually trying to clarify whether that speculation was joking around or serious, and you seemed oblivious to the problem. Accusing others of not showing restraint is majorly misrepresenting how your responses looked to everyone.

User avatar
Maven89
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:38 pm UTC

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Maven89 » Wed May 02, 2018 1:06 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
@Maven - why would claiming the town win condition give you a town pass?


For a moment there I got confused and thought people were talking about an issue with Sabrar's post there was different from the issue I had with it. If that was the case, I wanted to be the one to post the condition to make sure people knew I was just confused and not faking it. I feel it's pretty likely that at least some factions don't have the win condition, since the way people (like Wam and Sabrar) shows a blindness to what was going on, for Wam at least he comes off as definitely faking it. It's not a town clear in the sense of a cop clear, but it's better than most, and would save a mislynch if I had really misread what people were talking about. I know now we were all talking about the setup he provided, and I had just gotten confused for a moment.

User avatar
Liri
Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
Posts: 1113
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Liri » Wed May 02, 2018 1:32 am UTC

@jimbo re:wonky - out-of-the-ordinary, unusual, yeah. Not "highly technical" or some other definition.

Regarding plytho's yet-to-be-shared post, they (he?) called something the "elephant in the room" but no one except jimbob has remarked upon it (I may have missed an oblique reference). jimbob called it "a list of what has been spilled about the setup/by Town."

[Pause to write angry letter to toothpaste company for changing their design]

Is what plytho's referring to something slipped by Town? plytho's statement reads as very un-Town, to me.
There's a certain amount of freedom involved in cycling: you're self-propelled and decide exactly where to go. If you see something that catches your eye to the left, you can veer off there, which isn't so easy in a car, and you can't cover as much ground walking.

User avatar
Vicarin
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:45 am UTC
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Vicarin » Wed May 02, 2018 2:18 am UTC

Hmmm, let's try this...

@wam: please post your best guess at setup numbers, preferably with as little commentary as possible.

And no, 'whoops' is no longer acceptable for anyone (except maybe newer players) when it comes to this.

User avatar
SDK
Posts: 615
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 7:40 pm UTC
Location: Canada

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby SDK » Wed May 02, 2018 4:43 am UTC

Busy day today. After thinking things over a bit, I was just coming on to throw down. But now I think I'll wait to start that fight. For reasons.

Tomorrow.
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)

User avatar
Vicarin
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:45 am UTC
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Vicarin » Wed May 02, 2018 4:57 am UTC

SDK wrote:Busy day today. After thinking things over a bit, I was just coming on to throw down. But now I think I'll wait to start that fight. For reasons.

Tomorrow.


Oh come on, you can't leave us hanging like that. Always wanted to see SDK in action live, didn't think I'd get the chance.

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Sabrar » Wed May 02, 2018 5:25 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
Sabrar wrote:From his posting I don't see Mark_Cangila receiving advice from other players so if scum has day-chat I think he's Town.
What about an independent?
Could be. I rarely try to look for indies early on (apart from the occasional Jester-hunt) as they are not guaranteed to exist anyway and I'm not really sure how to spot them. See very similar case in Stellaris.

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Sabrar » Wed May 02, 2018 6:40 am UTC

Request mod-prod on mpolo

User avatar
wam
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:08 am UTC
Location: South England

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby wam » Wed May 02, 2018 6:44 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:Hmmm, let's try this...

@wam: please post your best guess at setup numbers, preferably with as little commentary as possible.



I do object to this route on principle and I think it will give scum more information. However I know I William be accused of being evasive so I will answer and save the debate for after the game. However I want more than just Vic thinking it's a good idea.

Sabrar has been a lot more like sabrar and pending my review of him backing down

unvote

Ps I'm trying to read sabrar s crossover content that's taking a while.

SDK wrote:Busy day today. After thinking things over a bit, I was just coming on to throw down. But now I think I'll wait to start that fight. For reasons.

Tomorrow.


Yeah this is classic active lurking and made even more suspicious by the dissucssuions over role pms.

vote sdk
Come join us playing mafia signup here

User avatar
bessie
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:27 am UTC
Location: California

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby bessie » Wed May 02, 2018 6:49 am UTC

Brief replies, as I am super tired.

Sabrar wrote:Looking at SDK right now, possibly bessie (which is a weird meta-read based on a single piece of info and needs to be revisited later when there is more content).
I really want to make a snarky remark about your meta reads but I have a bad headache and can’t think of one that I haven’t previously used. I probably will think of a great one five minutes after I post this.

Sabrar wrote:Please point out all the information that has been spilled before my updated setup-claim.

To start with, this should have given you a clue.
bessie wrote:I’m very interested in your setup speculation. What is your guess as to the distribution (town/other)?

Ninja’d by Sabrar while I was typing this up. Hmmm.
You, who knows my meta oh so well, and thus my obsession with the setup distribution numbers, should have clued in that I was suspicious of your setup spec, and of Vicarin’s statement that he couldn’t speculate on the setup from the flavor (from which I inferred included his role pm). Soooo, you can guess that mine isn’t 8/3/1/1 with one town friendly indie?

See this too.
bessie wrote:
Sabrar wrote:Similar to last time my post was written before receiving my role-pm.
Sooooo, what’s your updated setup spec?

Vote: Sabrar

Reason: Not town.


Sabrar wrote:@bessie, freezeblade, jimbob, LaserGuy: what is your opinion about the possibility of vote-changing mechanics not showing up in the votals?
Bastard if unknown to players. The mod announced it, but I think it’s still a stretch to call it minimal bastardry. Also, this is supposed to be a mostly newbie friendly game. I think that if this mechanic exists, it is probably a town power, and perhaps not totally hidden, or has some limitations (like can't count as hammer, only used as a tie breaker, is part of an unlynchable mechanic, etc). Even limited would still be pretty borderline for minimal bastardry. In minimal bastard games (especially newbie friendly ones) players should be able to deduce the true votals.

Sabrar wrote:I have two constant issues.
1. I always believe everyone thinks like me and understands my meaning.
Oh really I never noticed. Hahaha ... sarcasm ... I am so tired right now...

Sabrar wrote:2. I am very reluctant to let anything go to waste. If I prepare a post then I will use it even if circumstances change. Can give you past examples if you want.
Found one for you. Happy to be of service.
Sabrar wrote:So I had a huge post lined up with funny youtube vid-s and everything. But in light of recent event I'll keep it short.


Hey a jimbob wall! And I think he may have hit 2000 words! No questions for me so I will read it more thoroughly tomorrow.

Liri wrote: Regarding plytho's yet-to-be-shared post, they (he?) called something the "elephant in the room" but no one except jimbob has remarked upon it (I may have missed an oblique reference). jimbob called it "a list of what has been spilled about the setup/by Town."
The elephant is the setup spec, specifically the distribution numbers. Ok, I spilled it. It’s not like SDK can’t figure out what we are talking about by now.

SDK wrote:Busy day today. After thinking things over a bit, I was just coming on to throw down. But now I think I'll wait to start that fight. For reasons.

Tomorrow.
Me me me?

Ok, that’s more than the hour I was hoping to limit myself to tonight. I’ll try to do better tomorrow when I take on SDK. :P

Ninja'd.

Unvote: Sabrar
Vote: wam

User avatar
wam
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:08 am UTC
Location: South England

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby wam » Wed May 02, 2018 6:53 am UTC

@Bessie unlike you to vote early without a long line of argument.
Come join us playing mafia signup here

User avatar
bessie
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:27 am UTC
Location: California

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby bessie » Wed May 02, 2018 6:56 am UTC

@wam feeling paranoid this morning?


Return to “Mafia”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 9 guests