Meta Mafia II: Day 5

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Mark_Cangila
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Mark_Cangila » Thu May 31, 2018 1:02 pm UTC

Unvote: Madge
I switched my vote to Vicarin but forgot to unvote. Sorry mods.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Thu May 31, 2018 1:05 pm UTC

Mark_Cangila wrote:Unvote: Madge
I switched my vote to Vicarin but forgot to unvote. Sorry mods.
You don't need to unvote. It is the first of the game specific rules.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Vicarin » Thu May 31, 2018 1:26 pm UTC

As I've been alluding to, I did have some specific suggestions as to RP as Zen. One, was to try to do gambits, and two, was to try to be seen as scummy and townie at different points. I knew that decreasing my posting at the start of the game would definitely help me be seen as scummy, so I thought I'd try to do it immediately to see everyone's reactions to me suddenly changing my normal behaviour. I also thought that leaving open a breadcrumb opportunity would also be an appropriate gambit to start with. Then, later on, I can switch back to looking town, just like Zen pulled off in D2 of Stellaris.

Basically, I RPed him too well and at this rate it's going to turn out like Stellaris D1, but without a power to save me :P

I'm not going to attack people who are going after me for the perfectly justified reasons that people have seen, but I WILL go after Madge if she doesn't damn well explain why she thought I was so townie when I was trying my damnedest to look scummy! That position on her reads list still makes no damn sense.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu May 31, 2018 2:25 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:I'm not going to attack people who are going after me for the perfectly justified reasons that people have seen, but I WILL go after Madge if she doesn't damn well explain why she thought I was so townie when I was trying my damnedest to look scummy! That position on her reads list still makes no damn sense.
I'm not sure whether I buy your stated reason or not, but I do agree with the need for Madge to explain herself. Speaking of which:

Requesting mod-prod on Madge
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matthewglen wrote:Cueball looks concerned.

Image

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby mpolo » Thu May 31, 2018 3:23 pm UTC

Reread wam

Spoiler:
Confirm.
Let’s start.
People who joke-voted him are scum.
Asks about Sungura’s rules. Mark seems chatty.
Eagerness was Sabrar-meta. Fishing for reactions with joke-vote. Mark lurked as scum.
Non-chalant to “too defensive” charge. Sabrar is weird. Likes Madge’s content. Freezeblade is extra active.
Will seek middle ground.
Explains the “rolling with being read as scummy”
Not joining freeze wagon
Don’t ask about Mark’s question.
Deadline snuck up.
Joke.
Votes SDK for slip on Mark question.
Reads: Freeze waffly, understand pressure on him; Jimbob was weird due to RP, reads good; Laser hard to read through RP. Madge good content, as scum probably wouldn’t tunnel as well. Mark early town read, now neutral. Moody had odd comment about watching. Mpolo withholding judgment; Plytho good logic. Sabrar hard to read for style. Good points, slightly scummy. SDK several weird posts. 321 – don’t bother till replacement. Vicarin not obv-town, so likely scummy.
Happy with SDK, Vic or Sabrar lynch.
Meta question to Sabrar.
Example of SDK distancing from wam requested.
If SDK is scum, it seems Laser is defending him while keeping scum option open.
Vote count
Didn’t count Alien in earlier analysis.
D2 question comes early (why no SDK vote from Laser)
zombies ok
Vicarin seems to be a lot quotes under suspicion ????
Unvote SDK
Checks Vicarin’s meta. Seems defensive.
Quick answer to jimbob
Scummy quote from SDK (this would be his first lynch onsite)
Agrees with Sabrar.
SDK or Vicarin lynch gives info.
Town usually can’t see why they’d be scummy.


At first I was thinking there was very little content, but that picks up in the course of the day. Content comes in big spurts of several posts when he gets online. His argument against Vicarin is reasonable.

Conclusion: I am somewhat comfortable with wam at the moment. He's not my towniest read, but he's not scummy either.

As I have a lot of classes in the morning:

Vote: Vicarin
Image <-- Evil experiment

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Thu May 31, 2018 3:28 pm UTC

Hmm, there's some plausibility to Vicarin's claimed restriction.

Besides the points that are explained by the claim (low content, non-town-vicarin style, being aware of his scummy nature) there's some other things that look scummy.

-impliesI may be buddies with SDK, which makes no sense at all.
-Votes SDK close to deadline, when no other viable options were available, only to unvote as soon as the extension was declared. This makes me feel like he really didn't want to be voting SDK.
-Has no opinion on SDK's slip, only a vague comment:
Vicarin wrote:Also, somewhat interesting seeing the stuff going on with SDK...


Right, those all involve SDK, the next one doesn't though.

-Isn't pushing for any lynches.

@Vicarin, do you still think mpolo is most likely scum? Why aren't you convincing us? There's less than 24h until deadline, why aren't you voting? Also, plenty of people (including you, apparently) think SDK is suspicious, why don't you join that push? You sound resigned here:
Vicarin wrote:Basically, I RPed him too well and at this rate it's going to turn out like Stellaris D1, but without a power to save me :P


I'm definitely seeing a Vicarin-SDK scum team. My preferred lynch remains SDK as I'm more certain about him and more worried about him leading scum in the night chat. I expect Vicarin to fail at looking like his townie self D2 if he actually is scum so we can lynch him then.

plytho wrote:
Mark_Cangila wrote:Unvote: Madge
I switched my vote to Vicarin but forgot to unvote. Sorry mods.
You don't need to unvote. It is the first of the game specific rules.
Oh, I see Diemo forgot to remove that vote. [edit: and a couple of others apparently]

Update, I think they're correct, but make sure to check:
unofficial votals wrote:Votals:
Mark_Cangila (1) : Madge
SDK (2) : plytho, Sabrar
Vicarin (4): jimbob, Mark, wam, mpolo
jimbob (1): freezeblade

Not Voting (5) : freezeblade, LaserGuy, Vicarin, moody7277, SDK

Deadline is 3PM GMT+1 Friday
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Thu May 31, 2018 3:38 pm UTC

Deadline is in less than 24 hours, get your votes out!
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Thu May 31, 2018 3:42 pm UTC

Plytho am happy to either lynch SDK or vicarin. I can see your logic that SDK is more dangerous although I can vouch from experience getting back up to speed is harder than you think.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Thu May 31, 2018 3:42 pm UTC

I was going to reread Madge next, but I realise she hasn't posted since my Mark vs Madge post so nothing to read..

I guess she's exhausted from playing bessie and is taking a nap:
Madge wrote:At the end of the day I am a greyhound in a golden retriever suit, so whatever you do, don’t hook me up to a blind person and expect me to know how to guide them! I gotta RUN for about 45 seconds when I hear a NOISE OUTSIDE oh my GOODNESS and then spend the next 23.99 hours on the couch having a nap to recover.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Thu May 31, 2018 3:43 pm UTC

Also I can buy a vicarin SDK team. Your links do look suspicious.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Thu May 31, 2018 3:44 pm UTC

The 'freezeblade' in the not voting section of the unofficial votals should be threetwoone but otherwise it looks okay.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Thu May 31, 2018 3:44 pm UTC

@mpolo yeah I will admit.my content isn't as high as normal RL has been busier than normal!

Ps how I used to play 3 to 4 games at once I will never know.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Thu May 31, 2018 3:51 pm UTC

wam wrote:Plytho am happy to either lynch SDK or vicarin. I can see your logic that SDK is more dangerous although I can vouch from experience getting back up to speed is harder than you think.
what do you mean by 'getting back up to speed' ?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby bessie » Thu May 31, 2018 3:58 pm UTC

bessie heard the voices of her friends but was running late as usual and didn’t have time to record their conversation.


Official Votals:

Mark_Cangila (1) : Madge
SDK (2) : plytho, Sabrar
Vicarin (4) : jimbobmacdoodle, Mark_Cangila, wam, mpolo
jimbobmacdoodle (1) : freezeblade

Not Voting (5) : LaserGuy, moody7277, SDK, threetwoone, Vicarin

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to hammer.


Deadline is 3PM GMT+1 Friday.



@Mark_Cangila, you don’t need to unvote, your vote for Vicarin was accidentally overlooked. If you can put an empty line between your vote and the rest of your text, it makes it easier to find (note that it would be quite helpful if all of you did this!). If you have any questions, please ask here or by pm.

@All, please correct me if I have your vote wrong!

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby bessie » Thu May 31, 2018 4:05 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Requesting mod-prod on Madge

Madge has been prodded.

Woof!

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby SDK » Thu May 31, 2018 4:35 pm UTC

Sabrar's hot and ready:
Spoiler:
Sabrar's first few posts are fine when taken in context of Peaceful Whale.

Decent thoughts about the Fruit Vendor, and I like his thought process in this post (not just because I think he's right, but he's considering the scumside like a good townie should).

Still don't like this post though. I can see that he might have been trying for reactions to this list, and he did get some, but these reads are fabricated. Taking Peaceful Whale into account, it's possible that's what I'm seeing here.

Sabrar wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:If you had to lynch somebody right now, who would it be?
Mark, Vicarin, wam or you. Cannot narrow it down further.
Up to this point Sabrar has come down on the wrong side of Mark, but not confronted him at all. Same is true for Vicarin and jimbobmacdoodle. wam was asked a question in this same post. Ultimately, I don't like that Sabrar is being so passive with his reads here. He doesn't engage with any of these three until two days later when he asks Mark a question.

Speaking of reactions, apparently my reaction to that list is where Sabrar pegged me as scum. He's stated since that his read on me is pretty much exclusively because I'm reading him as scum. So... he posts a list he knows is scummy to get reactions, then when I say it "might be scummy" (note that I never called him scum up to this point), he says that proves I'm scum. This progression does not make sense, especially if you read my read of him here. I did intend to apply pressure to him, but my read is clearly super soft. His overreaction to this pressure is blatant.

This is continued when he points to Alien Warfare to prove that my supposed wrongness equates to scuminess. At this point I still have not come down hard against him, but he's claiming that me failing to read him as scum when I was not town (in Alien) means that me failing to read him as town here means I'm scum. For one thing, it's not even the same situation. For another, he has a very confused remembering of our history together. If you look back at our past games I have a history of misreading him for a sustained period of time before I can finally decide on him. Yes, I've typically been correct, but I need a lot of content and a lot of time before I feel comfortable calling Sabrar's alignment in any game. This game is no different.

Sabrar prods Vicarin and jimbob with a decent questions in a sharp kind of way. Might just be biased at this point, but they feel like they're looking for dirt, not answers.

Back to the fight with me (which is important, because it's at the center of Sabrar's illogical, not townie leaps), I have now come down on Sabrar as scum due to his reaction to my pressure. Do I have to go through each point there and show that they don't justify his scum read of me? (I do reply here to explain some of them). He's still on Alien and I still see no link between that game and this one.

So! Hopefully I've proven that Sabrar has no real basis for suspecting me here. Sabrar is certainly welcome to lynch me based on all sorts of things I've done in this thread. What he chose to focus on has no logic, no townie mindset and all the defensiveness in the world. He's also sure enough about it that he's using his read on me to smear wam at the same time (his reasoning for suspecting wam is very weak otherwise).

Sabrar does finally engage me with some questions, which is a big improvement on his mostly passive play, but takes my responses and twists them in ways that don't make sense. Sabrar lists our previous games there. I'd encourage anyone reading to take a look there for yourselves to see if Sabrar is making sense. He's not - I haven't checked myself, but I'm fairly confident that I failed to read Sabrar correctly and quickly in all those games but Diablo.


All told, this read has not been shaken. I'm fairly confident that Sabrar is scum. Primary points against are his passive play, asking far fewer questions than normal (at least early on), and voting for me for faulty and overly-defensive reasons.

A lot of people seem to have a strong town read of Sabrar. Could someone please explain how they see that?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Thu May 31, 2018 4:44 pm UTC

I meant up to speed as in his play may not be to the same level as it used to be. With respect to your concern about SDK lead in scum overnight
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Thu May 31, 2018 4:49 pm UTC

I don't have a town read of sabrar so can't help you
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby SDK » Thu May 31, 2018 5:26 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:So you went for a bad idea while you looked for a better option?

Lynching lurkers is only a bad idea when no better options are available. There were better options available, but LIKE I ALREADY SAID, I did not expect freezeblade to be lynched.

Also, I looked at your Shakespeare link. Why do you say that I was pushing back hard against a lurker lynch? It looks like I wanted to lynch a lurker that had a little bit of content (Madge) instead of a lurker with no real content (DethStalker). Isn't that completely consistent with what I'm doing here?


plytho wrote:
SDK wrote:
plytho wrote:There's no mention of matrix 14 in the role pm.

Right, but I wrote the question before seeing that it was from his role PM.
Yeah, no. That won't fly. You don't get to use your original (arguably more justifiable) motivation for asking the question when you later on acknowledge that you decided to keep the question after becoming aware it was about the role pm. You're deliberately misleading us here.

I mean, I get that you're not going to listen to me regardless, but you picked on some minor thing and I defend against that minor thing. You can continue to suspect me if you want to, but you can't add "there's no mention of matrix 14 in the role pm" to your list of grievances.


moody7277 wrote:I just got back from some serious real life shit errands, so please give me some space. How some of you people can post clear until 4am I'll never understand.

Hope you got it all worked out, moody. Not trying to get you to post at 4am, just figured you'd weigh in on the most important wagon of the day. This is a good post.


LaserGuy wrote:I find plytho's progression on the rolefish issue to be very natural and townie...

I agree, but didn't see it that way at the time. Thanks for the explanation.


Vicarin wrote:@SDK: the way that I thought would be easiest to breadcrumb would be to just give a like and dislike number that intersect at your role. The advantage to town is related to what I think Sabrar doesn't want to talk about today, but I could be wrong. Mafia would need to guess that someone is not just messing around with giving random numbers, so I don't think it would have benefited them much.

If everyone had done that, sure, but there was no way to communicate that ahead of time without tipping off mafia. Even if everyone had done that, most of the shared numbers could not have aligned with the actual game based on what the mafia would have already known. Ultimately, this could have ended very badly for town, so it's good that most people ignored you. Do you agree?

Vicarin wrote:you do rarely forget stuff

Others have said this before, but I actually don't think that's true. Shrug.

Vic, do you have a town read on Sabrar. Why?



Thanks for that, wam. I was hoping I didn't have to go back through Vic's other town games. I agree that he does feel more aggressive or pointed in those links than he has this game.

To all those who suspect Vic for meta reasons: Is this consistent with why you think Vicarin is not obv town this game?


plytho wrote:
moody7277 wrote:after extension, SDK seems to be able to collect himself
Perhaps that's the difference between the attitude of scum about to be lynched and scum seeing an opportunity to save themselves? Doesn't feel like townie progress to me.

I'm sure this won't sway you, but I don't think I've ever done this much work as scum!


Vicarin wrote:What about the case where he was bussing SDK and now he gets townie cred without having to get his buddy lynched?

Uh, what? Do you really think this is a possibility?


wam wrote:This strike me as an odd thing for town SDK to say and strikes me as coming more from a scum.mindset.

I thought someone might say that, but I have literally never been mislynched on this site. I'm much more accustomed to being nightkilled. It's great, because then I'm free to gambit all I like to provide content and the only side effect might be some minor pressure that leads the nightkill elsewhere! To be mislynched Day 1 on my first town game back is... an unfortunate change.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Pre-game

Postby SDK » Thu May 31, 2018 6:05 pm UTC

freezeblade:
Spoiler:
Having fun with colours feels like townie fun, but doesn't actually help anything. freezeblade's gone for the long weekend, which is fine and normal for him, but no content at all prior to that, including a complete lack of questions and real discussion is not.

This is his first real post, three days in. He answers some questions and defends himself, but no hunting here whatsoever.

Some original thought in this post, at least, but it's not strong. I don't think analyzing the random groupings is going to get anywhere when people mostly ignored them. Calls jimbob scummy, with a couple okay reasons. Hedges on Madge vs. Mark which I'm not a fan of at all.

No vote down as of deadline. No comment on any of the leading wagons. Votes jimbob after extension with no additional justification (but some defensiveness of his own).

freezeblade wrote:Maybe you're not seeing much recently because we are on the very end of D1, and not only that, but an extended D1. I really don't see much in the way of anything to comment on until we have more information D2.

Need I say my old refrain? Day one sucks.
No way. Sure, you hate Day 1, but I don't believe this is legitimate. You haven't followed up on Madge vs. Mark (despite calling them "super interesting" earlier), you haven't talked about me at all (which is an absolute must following the extension, frankly, if you were town, you'd be voting me), and you're voting for someone all by yourself with no apparent interest in who we lynch. This is not town you. Town you does hate Day 1 and does complain about it, but at least you try!

So we've got one here. I was afraid I might not get a better option than Sabrar (since I'm pretty sure few will follow me on that), but freezeblade is scum. For sure.

Vote freezeblade

plytho will probably say I'm diverting attention from myself and my buddy Vicarin, and that's okay. Even if you lynch me, take down freezeblade afterwards. I'm seriously 100% sure on this read.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Thu May 31, 2018 6:46 pm UTC

Started compiling my reply to SDK and then my partner got home. Given month-end work will be extremely busy tomorrow and early next week as well. My only choice is to do it during the weekend... No fair killing me N1 :D

Some quick hits to tide you over:

SDK wrote:So... he posts a list he knows is scummy to get reactions
Never said I 'knew' my list was scummy. It was provocative, non-standard, aimed to get reactions. It was a gambit. It wasn't scummy.

SDK wrote:His overreaction to this pressure is blatant.
You seem to deliberately ignore context. It was not an overreaction because someone out there considered me slightly scummy. It was a meta-read specifically on you, I would never have used the same argument against anyone else.

SDK wrote:I don't think I've ever done this much work as scum!
Dark Tower would like to have a word with you.

SDK wrote:I have literally never been mislynched on this site.
Then we have something in common. :)

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby freezeblade » Thu May 31, 2018 6:53 pm UTC

Oh look. SDK 100% sure on a scum read on me. Seems like a repeat of like...every game ever that has SDK and I in it. You're emboldened with this read likely because most of the games you play with me, I am scum. Thus my scummy meta. Just because I'm usually scum historically on this forum, does not mean I am scum this time.

*shrug* Saying anything is "a must" in a game like this...is telling players how they should play the game. Not everyone wants to play like you do.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Thu May 31, 2018 7:02 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
SDK wrote:I have literally never been mislynched on this site.
Then we have something in common. :)
That makes three of us!
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby SDK » Thu May 31, 2018 7:15 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
SDK wrote:So... he posts a list he knows is scummy to get reactions
Never said I 'knew' my list was scummy. It was provocative, non-standard, aimed to get reactions. It was a gambit. It wasn't scummy.

Fine, but you can see why someone might consider it scummy, yes?

Sabrar wrote:
SDK wrote:His overreaction to this pressure is blatant.
You seem to deliberately ignore context. It was not an overreaction because someone out there considered me slightly scummy. It was a meta-read specifically on you, I would never have used the same argument against anyone else.

I understand that, but your "meta-read" is based on me apparently being unable to misread you, no matter how scummy your posting. I say your list in particular might be scummy (and you know damn well it might have been). You say I am scum for calling you scum (which I did not do). It doesn't follow.

Sabrar wrote:
SDK wrote:I don't think I've ever done this much work as scum!
Dark Tower would like to have a word with you.

Oh man, am I glad that game panned out. I worked hard for that final day to close the deal, yeah. Pretty sure I'm putting more hours in here though.



freezeblade wrote:Oh look. SDK 100% sure on a scum read on me. Seems like a repeat of like...every game ever that has SDK and I in it. You're emboldened with this read likely because most of the games you play with me, I am scum. Thus my scummy meta. Just because I'm usually scum historically on this forum, does not mean I am scum this time.

I correctly called you as town in Diablo. In Diablo you were doing more than just defending yourself Day 1. You were asking questions and giving opinions, you were prodding lurkers, you were looking for answers.

freezeblade wrote:*shrug* Saying anything is "a must" in a game like this...is telling players how they should play the game. Not everyone wants to play like you do.

Fair enough. I'll just change that slightly then: I expect that you in particular would definitely have commented on my wagon as town.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby freezeblade » Thu May 31, 2018 8:38 pm UTC

SDK wrote:
freezeblade wrote:*shrug* Saying anything is "a must" in a game like this...is telling players how they should play the game. Not everyone wants to play like you do.

Fair enough. I'll just change that slightly then: I expect that you in particular would definitely have commented on my wagon as town.


Partially because I really don't know how I feel about your wagon, it seems to have progressed pretty quickly, over something which I don't know if I fully understand, and I haven't had the time here with work being crazy to sift though the thread and find out exactly what everyone is so up in arms about. I've learned from a few games on here with you that I can't read you, especially not on D1, so my meta-read is pretty much neutral.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Thu May 31, 2018 9:35 pm UTC

SDK wrote:I mean, I get that you're not going to listen to me regardless, but you picked on some minor thing and I defend against that minor thing. You can continue to suspect me if you want to, but you can't add "there's no mention of matrix 14 in the role pm" to your list of grievances.

Oh, I totally can.

Spoiler:
you rolefished Mark, apparently knowing he claimed to have asked a question about his role-pm.
[I pointed out that Mark had stated this was a question about his role-pm]

Your post following my remark doesn't acknowledge you're aware it was about mark's role-pm, referring to it as the 'pm-question', you didn't consider the rolefish option and were trying to get madge of marks back or prove he was asking a werewolfy question.

In the next big post I feel you make two 'mistakes'. 1: you continue to answer as if you aren't aware that mark mentioned his role pm in your answer to Sabrar but in your answer to me explain that you were aware it was about the role-pm when you reconsidered the question (the matrix 14 problem); 2: you claim to have considered deleting the question from your reads list, which isn't possible since you wrote your reads list afterwards, which in a later postyou explain as misremembering


List of grievances:
1)Rolefishing mark, keeping the question open after being aware it was a question about his role pm
2)not acknowledging you were aware of it being about his role pm even though you apparently were, and defending your motivation for asking the question with options that aren't relevant after you realized it was a role-pm question ("there's no mention of matrix 14 in the role pm")
3)forgetting what happened when you realized mark asked a question about his role pm. You claim you made a conscious decision to keep the question. Seems to me you'd remember this sort of decision.

4)active lurking. your only content until your question to mark is explaining matrix 14 to mpolo.
5)thinking I'm a PR and trying to lynch me.
SDK wrote: Thinking about what the mafia might know makes sense, but plytho is analyzing this from the view of a PR.



SDK wrote: I have made mistakes, but plytho seems unwilling to even consider that an option.
I did consider that an option at first, but you made too many and didn't handle them well.

The first mistake was asking the question, not considering the possible role-fishing.
The second mistake was keeping the question and not considering the possible role-fishing even when you knew it was about marks role-pm.
The third mistake, which I'm really having trouble as seeing as anything but deliberate is not acknowledging we're talking about a role-pm here.
The fourth mistake is using your initial motivation for asking the question instead of the motivation for keeping the question. Why, from a townie perspective would you do this? You made a conscious decision to keep the question. That's obviously what we want to know about.
The fifth mistake is forgetting when exactly you asked this question.

That's a lot of mistakes and two, three and four are very hard to explain as a townie.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu May 31, 2018 10:07 pm UTC

I've had even less time this evening than I expected, and I need to go to bed. I hope to have a little time when I get up, but won't to go back over the thread again to find questions I've missed. If there's anything people would like me to comment on, please could they say what. I will try to skim Vicarin's latest content again to in order to review my vote, and go from there.

On SDK, I really have a hard time seeing him as scum with his recent content in particular. I think he asked why people were town reading Sabrar, and I refer him to my second reads post for my last considered opinion.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby moody7277 » Thu May 31, 2018 10:08 pm UTC

Okay, I'm going to play along with a hypothesis here. Sabrar is going full blaze against SDK, and it looks to me that plytho says here that I'm already suspicious of SDK, I just don't realize it yet. I'm thinking that lynching SDK might be very educational. To me, if SDK actually does turn out town, it would raise significantly my suspicion of {Sabrar,plytho}. There also seems to be something with Vicarin folding into it on the scum!SDK side of things should that come to pass; more to analyze D2.

Vote: SDK
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Thu May 31, 2018 10:17 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:On SDK, I really have a hard time seeing him as scum with his recent content in particular.

What part of his recent content couldn't come from scum?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu May 31, 2018 10:32 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:On SDK, I really have a hard time seeing him as scum with his recent content in particular.

What part of his recent content couldn't come from scum?
None of it, but barring certain specific slips, or when we have some flips to judge other alignments, the same can be said for practically anything anybody has posted. I don't think the multiple detailed player analyses would be likely in this situation. I more would expect SDK to do his trademark super aggression on one player with more suspicion on and stake out a detailed case, whereas to me, he seems to be actively trying to find scum from amongst the likely candidates.

Moody, I'm confused: are you essentially saying that you want lynch SDK for information, and not because you believe him to be likeliest scum?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby moody7277 » Thu May 31, 2018 11:23 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Moody, I'm confused: are you essentially saying that you want lynch SDK for information, and not because you believe him to be likeliest scum?


Well, nobody else besides Madge at one point wants to lynch who I have as most scummy.

To put it in the most extreme terms, as aggro as Sabrar's been and as co-ordinated as plytho has been on SDK, plus plytho's "search your feelings; you know it to be true" post aimed at me, would seem to indicate it's a high likelihood there's scum in there somewhere. There is always a chance that all three of them could be caught up townies, but I think it's smaller than pure probability would suggest.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Vicarin » Thu May 31, 2018 11:32 pm UTC

Ok, let's get this going. Again.

Vote: SDK

@SDK: yeah, it could well have been ill advised to ask what I did. Did think it had a decent chance of being useful for town however, and it seemed appropriately gambity for Zen.

That bussing case was something I didn't think was terribly likely, I was just wondering if Sabrar had considered it for completeness sake.

Main people I'm suspicious of:

SDK: been explained. Also, sudden change in behaviour with the deadline extension doesn't look great.

mpolo: still didn't like the lurking, though there is some analysis now, and SDK's two word read of him looks super weird if SDK is scum. Looks better if SDK is town.

Sabrar: a lot of his early interactions felt slightly off, a lot more like Alien than Stellaris. However, he has been going hard after SDK. Seems most likely that one of him and SDK is scum. If either flips town, other is probably scum. Also could be two different kinds of scum?

Madge: arggghhhh answer my question she hasn't posted since the original deadline arrrgh.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Vicarin » Thu May 31, 2018 11:39 pm UTC

Seriously wondering if the 9/2/2 setups would best explain what's going on...

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:22 am UTC

Unvote
Vote: Vicarin


Don't like his post at all.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby SDK » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:33 am UTC

Yeah, I don't know if I'm reading badly this game, or if a bunch of townies are acting crazy. Maybe both. Moody's and Vicarin's votes are both a little weird.

Vicarin's back and forth on our alignment's being linked may just be a high estimation of our scum hunting abilities, Sabrar. I don't think that part's the slam dunk that chaining often is. The rest, though doesn't feel good either.

I'll be back before deadline.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Madge » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:37 am UTC

Sincerest apologies I didn’t post before. I don’t play mafia at work*, so with a few busy days, I managed to miss out on a lot. However, I’m excited to analyse four pages of content and see what I can sniff out!

plytho wrote:@Madge: you're calling Mark scum based on daychat assumptions, is he still scum in no-daychat scenarios?

Honestly the daychat thing was just a hunch / something to get discussion started / something for me to talk about other than how much I hate D1. Mark’s reaction to it has been telling, and I think that’s a lot more alignment indicative than whether there’s daychat or not. So, if you’d asked me on page one, I would have said Mark isn’t scummy if there’s no daychat; but from where I’m standing on page 4, I think Mark is acting badly and flailing about like newbie scum (after reading through the whole thread, I'm less convinced that Mark is scummy as his later posts have been better). I’m keen to be proven wrong though as nothing would make me sadder than ganging up on a newbie and making him feel unwelcome.

I hope you’re not feeling unwelcome, Mark! Let me know if you don’t like what I’m doing to you and I’ll try and be kinder.

plytho wrote:Btw, the thing that's particularly suspicious about SDK's question to mark is that Mark had previously stated it was a question about his role-pm, but SDK is asking 'what was that question about', masking his role fishing as a more innocent question.

That is extremely suspicious. Thanks for pointing it out. SDK’s defense feels fine though, so nulltell, but at least you’re paying attention.

plytho wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I don't know how it is where freezeblade lives, but it was a three day weekend in England this weekend. Freezeblade doesn't generally posts on weekends, so that might explain his lack of post yesterday too.
Apparently it was memorial day in the US?

I’ve got a holiday coming up on Monday, too! But I guess that means I’ll be able to post :lol:

freezeblade wrote:
Madge wrote:
freezeblade wrote:Anyone who votes for people off of their confirmation post will get a vote from me, fair warning.

Why is that? Do you not want us to catch scum? I’ve got a great record of catching scum from their confirmation posts, and I was hoping to continue that streak this game.

Because anyone actually caught out from a confirmation post is nothing more than coincidence in my opinion, and anyone who doubles down on it is being ridiculous

no u

LaserGuy wrote:
Madge wrote:Nonsense. LaserGuy has been very unMadge-like in this. I feel like he’s not complained about D1 and loudly complained he should have signed up as a replacement but then loudly opined that he’d still be replacing in D1 and wouldn’t have gotten to choose who he played.


Sorry, I will rectify this immediately.

:lol: i love roasting myself. Thank you. I love you so much. Your post made me laugh so much. But you’re still scum ;)

Sabrar as peaceful whale is just lovely. I hope he sees it. It’s so full of love.

plytho wrote:
SDK wrote:
plytho wrote:[Madge's] Mark tunnel feels unfounded.

I'm 99% sure that she's playing bessie with this one. It definitely does not feel like a scummy tunnel to me.
Just because she's playing bessie doesn't mean she can't be scum. It's a nice excuse to hide behind, in the mean time she's still voting mark based on weak reasoning. Why does it feel like a townie tunnel to you?

Combine Madge’s hate of d1 and inability to find people scummy enough to vote for d1 and bessie’s love of tunnelling and voting and you have a madge who will tunnel someone and vote just because it means she’s roleplaying. I am taking the roleplaying more seriously than the scumhunting because [Madge]it’s d1 and i have nfi i mean really aarrrgh stressing out here[/Madge], so if you find any problems with my reads, think about whether they’re made for roleplaying purposes. Maybe not townie to make reads for roleplaying but tbh Madge’s reads are so bad that I think it might not matter.

The SDK wagon seems really odd. How did it get so much traction so quickly? I get the logic behind the votes, but not with how everyone just…. Agreed and off to the wagon. Strange.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:(@Madge - when was the last time you were actually scum?)

I honestly don’t know. I suspect it’s the low number of games we play compared to what we used to run through means that people just tend to have longer delay periods between scum games.

Mark’s new post is a lot better! Make more like this, it seems like you had more fun with that.

I actually agree with the case on Vicarin, despite him being at the top of my woof-grr list. More evidence I’m a bad scumhunter :lol:. But the explanation about doing Zens meta is a very good point and might nullify a lot of that.

no objection to zombies as long as the zombie has to play the meta of whoever threetwoone was assigned

I am liking SDK’s reaction to being on top of everyone’s list. I think SDK is town.

LaserGuy wrote:that will probably mean that I won't be posting much during that time, and when I do, I will probably be drunky-drunk-drunk, which I am sure you will all just LOVE.

I am just imagining what a thing of beauty your posts will be when you make them drunk. Please do this. NOBODY KILL OR VOTE LASeRGUY OFF UNTIL THIS HAPPENS. Thanks friends!

Vicarin wrote:@Madge: I'd still like an answer to my (and LaserGuy's) question about why I was your strongest town read.

Now that I can’t answer as bessie
:evil:
It was just a feeling, a vibe I had when I was trying to make a woof-grr list. You think roleplaying Bessie magically gives Madge the ability to scumhunt? It doesn’t. It was a vague hunch that was probably based on me liking one sentence in one of your posts.
:D

Sabrar wrote:Could you explain why you have LaserGuy so close to Grrr?

Have you read his posts? Contain more information about his children being adorable than about his actual reads. I don’t like it, it’s scummy behaviour. I know it’s all roleplaying and I’ll defend his right to roleplay to the death, but that doesn’t mean I have to find it not scummy.

plytho wrote:I was going to reread Madge next, but I realise she hasn't posted since my Mark vs Madge post so nothing to read..

I guess she's exhausted from playing bessie and is taking a nap:
Madge wrote:At the end of the day I am a greyhound in a golden retriever suit, so whatever you do, don’t hook me up to a blind person and expect me to know how to guide them! I gotta RUN for about 45 seconds when I hear a NOISE OUTSIDE oh my GOODNESS and then spend the next 23.99 hours on the couch having a nap to recover.


EXACTLY :lol:

---
*note: I am actually playing at work as I type this, so don’t worry, my absence wasn’t due to me changing when I played, I am just roleplaying in this text rather than in my real life.

**note: I am considering hybridising the TrueMadge™ strategy with this one in future games, since people seem to find me townier despite me hating D1 just as much as before and having just as terrible reads as before. But the big delay between posts means that I can’t commit to this.
I'm writing a supernatural romance novel, it updates the first weekend of every month. You can find it here.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:52 am UTC

SDK wrote:Vicarin's back and forth on our alignment's being linked may just be a high estimation of our scum hunting abilities, Sabrar.
This sentence here reads soooo much like buddying and not something coming from a player who is convinced I'm scum.
I don't know what to think...

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:58 am UTC

If possible would like to have official votals close to deadline.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Vicarin » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:45 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:Unvote
Vote: Vicarin


Don't like his post at all.


Any part in particular you didn't like or are you just saying this to justify a vote on me?

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:02 am UTC

Right, obviously it's SDK vs Vicarin for the lynch.

I think they're both scum and SDK should be the lynch as he's the more dangerous one with a stronger ability to lead scum in the night and mislead town during the day. Whereas scum!Vicarin will have a harder time playing his obvtown meta.

Wam, Sabrar, please join me on SDK.

Others, please read my read on SDK and then join me in voting.

Vicarin wrote:Seriously wondering if the 9/2/2 setups would best explain what's going on...
Why would that explain what's going on? What do you think is going on?
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