Meta Mafia II: Day 5

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LaserGuy
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby LaserGuy » Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:47 am UTC

So there's a really loud wedding DIRECTLY off my deck tonight, so may be touch and go for the boys to sleep at all... So if this ends abruptly, that's probably the reason. Trying to be a good sport about it because it's a destination wedding so hard to fault them for going all out, but crossing my fingers things cool down by midnight.

@Madge, in D1 you read plytho's SDK case as a "null tell". What changed your mind between D1 and D2 that made him now your scummiest read?

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby mpolo » Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:03 pm UTC

DAY 2 read on plytho:

Spoiler:
plytho: Starts with vote on SDK. Case hangs on role-fishing for Mark_Caniglia and on inconsistencies with his answers about the situation. Also active lurking. SDK says that plytho is analysing from the PoV of a PR, but still suggests a plytho lynch. [SDK for his part holds that these are all mistakes on his part or misinterpretations on plytho’s part.] Plytho pushes his case pretty hard. Makes vote timeline. Opinions on fruit vendor/receiver. Not sure about these in some edge cases.

Goes into reasons for fruit claims. Vendor should not CC a non-fruit claim. Looks at the wagons from an SDK-scum perspective. LaserGuy’s vote damned Vicarin. Clears confusion about setup. The advantages of a claimed fruit-vendor are negated by Mafia powers. Fully fixed on SDK as lynch.

Does not accept SDK’s explanation (Asked question to take off pressure from Madge. Kept question out of stupidity, expected an answer about posting restriction.) Also admits that the actual slip with the question makes sense for neither town or sum, so the case really hangs on the explanations afterwards. LaserGuy seems to be avoiding talking about SDK/plytho. Catches an inconsistency in Mark_Caniglia that turns out to be a timezone error. Thinks SDK is deliberately playing down the argument. Doesn’t like jimbob/wam’s fruit vendor strategy because it could expose the vendor to scum. Thinks wam’s statement that “cops shouldn’t claim, but would have” is contradictory.

wam’s statement may be a subtle endorsement of claiming. Reads list. Scum in LaserGuy, freezeblade, SDK. LaserGuy could be a partner of SDK. If SDK is town, likelier wam and freezeblade. Mark is a possible SDK buddy, but no signs of having been coached in the night. Wam is a notorious busser.

Freezeblade didn’t post despite being online. Thinks SDK was trying to signal a kill of freezeblade if he had been lynched D1. FB has soft-claimed a power role. Assumption is SDK is scum. BoomFrog presented 4 names, but not very clear reads. Reads list. SDK is clearly scum.


On the surface, there is an extreme concentration on SDK, however, he makes similar smaller arguments about several players. He's remains quite active (usually 8 posts a page or so) without having any major hiccups or slips. I am reasonably confident in a town read, here.

On his SDK case, I am more inclined to accept "honest mistake" as an argument, because in my last game I made a lot of them as town and got lynched for it. At this point plytho has said that the argument hangs primarily on the explanations/interpretations of the question more than the question itself, and it's at this point that the argument starts to look a little like tunnelling. I need to read SDK in isolation, after taking another walk (supposed to walk 20-30 minutes, and then sit or lie with my feet raised for several days — probably not going to happen like that, but I can at least try on Sunday…)
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby BoomFrog » Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:20 pm UTC

I'm pretty busy yesterday and today, but I'll give quick answers to plytho's questions.

Town:
Plytho
JimBob
Mpolo

Laserguy
Moody - Putting a lot more effort into the game then I remember him liking to do. I'm not sure if that's a town or scum sign.
Madge

Mark
Wam
SDK
FreezeBlade
Scum

The bottom three are going to require a lynch to sort out. Mark and Madge seem most likely to be buddies with wam our FreezeBlade. But there is also the chance that SDK told them N1 to bus him (although I don't think so. Scum!SDK would be confident enough that he could pull out of the nose dive.)

@JimBob: if you were scum FreezeBlade would you not claim a PR at this point? If we wait until D3 to compare claims we have given scum a 2 for 1. That's not acceptable.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby BoomFrog » Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:25 pm UTC

fb wrote:If I'm not set to be replaced by EOD, and I'm leading in the votes as a result, I will happily full-claim to help out, as mentioned before, lynching me would be bad for town.


@jimbob: Look at this, he is not actually claiming PR. He's just claiming town. There is wiggle room here for him to say D3, I'm just VT trying to attract the NK. You can't assume he is town based on this.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:28 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:@jimbob: Look at this, he is not actually claiming PR. He's just claiming town. There is wiggle room here for him to say D3, I'm just VT trying to attract the NK. You can't assume he is town based on this.
You're asking me, aren't you?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby BoomFrog » Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:55 pm UTC

plytho wrote:I really don’t believe SDK wouldn’t be aware of the possibility that his buddy was asking about his role.

Actually, if Mark is a goon and SDK knew it, that would be one of the explinations for why SDK completely didn't consider that Mark was asking about a PR.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby BoomFrog » Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:58 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:@jimbob: Look at this, he is not actually claiming PR. He's just claiming town. There is wiggle room here for him to say D3, I'm just VT trying to attract the NK. You can't assume he is town based on this.
You're asking me, aren't you?

Oh me yarm... yes. I never realized him much I relied on my subconscious to sort people in this game haha.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:59 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
plytho wrote:I really don’t believe SDK wouldn’t be aware of the possibility that his buddy was asking about his role.

Actually, if Mark is a goon and SDK knew it, that would be one of the explinations for why SDK completely didn't consider that Mark was asking about a PR.
:shock: I figured SDK couldn't have known but checking the matrix14 mafia role pm's apparently there was mafia chat during pre-game.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:30 pm UTC

I might have to reread some earlier content to see if that changes anything. Your point about mark is definitely interesting in that regard.

BoomFrog wrote:@jimbob: Look at this, he is not actually claiming PR. He's just claiming town. There is wiggle room here for him to say D3, I'm just VT trying to attract the NK. You can't assume he is town based on this.
Hmm, you have a point. But we can counter that by tracking or copping freezeblade. That still leaves a some wiggle room for a mafia freezeblade to just not target anyone if we're in (10). But, if freezeblade is actually a vanilla townie, scum don't know this and are forced to NK him to avoid his PR results tomorrow. Need to think about this a some more but for now I still think a freezeblade lynch isn't optimal.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:14 pm UTC

Picking up with assorted responses to stuff I haven't properly responded to yet. On freezeblade's soft claim: let's consider the three possible cases, to see if they make remote sense: 1) VT!freezeblade - I think it's unlikely for him to claim it here, as it just risks looking worse if he is pushed to full claim, and then comes up with VT (almost certainly resulting in his subsequent lynch, I think) - his tone from the statements implies that he's an important PR (i.e. not a fruit vendor, and maybe not the even-night tracker); 2) PR!freezeblade - fairly likely, if freezeblade is worried about being lynched. 3) scum!freezeblade - also likely, since it flushes out a town!PR. Basically, I don't think 1) is likely, which means 2) or 3), which means that freezeblade might as well just come out and full claim, if there's a fair chance of him being lynched (which there is currently, since he's my second choice at the moment, behind Mark, without a full claim, effectively making him 3 vs 4 for SDK, with several undecided).

I do find it slightly odd that BoomFrog seems to assume that freezeblade is not a PR, and therefore needs to be lynched.
LaserGuy wrote:Hi guys! I'm really sorry about lurking D2! I know my content today has been awful. If you guys really want me to replace out or something I totally understand, but it's only for a couple more days so I'd really rather struggle through and I'll be better D3 if I survive!
I don't think you need to worry about replacing, as long as your D3 content is better.
LaserGuy wrote:And nobody answered my question about mpolo either? Okay then. I'll put somebody who said they knew Sungara on the naughty list when I get around to looking up who said that.
I don't really know Sungura other than by reputation. I've read one game she modded (or did I play? Can't remember), and played against her in Smalltown 2 (which had 26 players, and she died fairly early, so...).[/quote]
plytho wrote:This post from SDK pinged me earlier as a hint for his scumbuddies to NK freezeblade.
Ladies and gentlemen: this is what a tunnel looks like. That's a massive stretch in my mind, especially as freezeblade looks pretty scummy anyway.
SDK wrote:
Madge wrote:If SDK flips town then Plytho is on the hot seat.

This is the first truly concerning thing I think you've posted all game, Madge.
I'm not sure I'd go as far as to say that this is the first truly concerning thing, but it did raise my eyebrows a bit.
plytho wrote:@jimbob: you’re convinced mark is scum but you’ve made no mention of possible buddies. Any thoughts on that?
Not really thought about this much yet. There isn't much content from him, but skimming his posts, I'd rule out Madge (early tunnel) and SDK (PM-gate - I don't think this would have come up at all between buddies - much more likely SDK and Mark would have discussed it pre-game). Probably not freezeblade either, due to his comments at the end of this post. Anybody else would be feasible (i.e. BoomFrog, LaserGuy, moody, mpolo, plytho, wam), without considering content from their side (i.e. I doubt you're his buddy, simply because I read you as so townie). On moody, my main concern is his lack of explanation of his SDK read, surrounding his vote (or rather intention to vote). He's the weakest of my scum reads currently, apart from Madge, who beats him because of early townieness.
plytho wrote:Hmm, maybe next time I should do a reverse read as I seem to run out of steam near the end which makes me focus a lot more on the alphabetically (dis)advantaged.
This is often how I feel. Unfortunately, I tend not to think about it until I start flagging.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:55 am UTC

@Madge, mpolo, mark, LaserGuy, Moody (LaserGuy and the Ms haha)

So you believe FreezeBlade is claiming a power role? Do you think he is likely town or scum?

Mafia already have a much better idea then we do about this, so I don't think we gain much by ignoring the situation.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:55 am UTC

@wam too.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:22 am UTC

These are some quick impressions of where I'm at. Won't have time for full reads so this is probably as good as you'll get from me until I get home.

Madge: Naughty. Vote on SDK feels opportunistic and poorly motivated.
Wam: Naughty if SDK is Town. Nice if scum. I feel like he's been egging on this conflict more than others while leaving plytho to take the blame if SDK is Town.
Moody: Naughty if SDK is scum. Nice if Town. Feels like he's hedging a bit on SDK read. Could be buddy trying to keep options open. Busier than usual which I don't yet know how to read. Other content okay.
Plytho: Nice. This is Town plytho.
Mpolo: Nice. Busier than usual. Not sure how to read that yet. Like the content but meta is freaking me out.
SDK: Nice. Discussed already. Inclined to believe him/plytho is a misunderstanding.
BoomFrog: Neutral. Is BoomFrog. Don't have enough to confidently read him without anything from D1.
Jimbob: Nice. This is Town jimbob.
Freezeblade: Neutral. Was reading as scummy. Tentatively believe PR softing as legit since he has no reason to claim otherwise. Don't want him to claim today.
Mark: Nice. Little content D2 beyond a potentially opportunistic vote. Still think he may be Town based on D1.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:43 am UTC

Yeah I saw the soft claim. Was actually hoping it would get over looked till d3. As I think all this talk just helps scum. I think we leave it till D3 as if SDK flips town we have 1 more mis lynch to use if we have competing claims.

Note on claims if your a town pr make sure any claims align with the setup you know were in.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby Madge » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:17 am UTC

mpolo wrote:Mark I don't know. Early WW interest was a red light, but there don't seem to be WWs.

If I wanted to tunnel mark, here’s where I’d point out that newbie scum would be very curious about whether there were werewolves or not. I don’t think this was Mark’s case though.

Plytho’s strategy I am really liking RE: Freezeblade. Maybe it’s because someone has a strategy. Are you sure you didn’t draw Sabrar because I feel an urge to sheep you :lol:

I agree we shouldn’t vote off freezeblade today, and he claims tomorrow.

Plytho: the light at the end of the tunnel remark means I’m not tunnelling Mark anymore, but I do still think his D1 content was scummy, and his reaction to it was scummier, but none of it really holds much of a scumminess candle to anything that happens after this because we have D2 results to look at now.

For psychological reasons though I think it’s likely that Mark’s dropoff in activity is because he’s getting frustrated at being found scummy, I think scum!Mark would be more irate about it.

LaserGuy wrote:@Madge, in D1 you read plytho's SDK case as a "null tell". What changed your mind between D1 and D2 that made him now your scummiest read?

On a roleplaying level I hate this question because it’s the exact sort of question I would never ask and also the exact sort of question I would never answer (these may be related).

I’m having trouble keeping up (just been a bit down in the dumps today), so I can’t go back and look through everything, but my recollection is that town!plytho or scum!plytho would make the identical case on SDK, so it’s a null tell on plytho, not on SDK.

I put plytho in the hot seat if SDK flips town because the attack has been pretty consistent/unrelenting, but I was also exaggerating and stating more “plytho will look more suspicious than he does not, which is someone who is so unsuspicious that I am talking about him being sabrar 2.0 so I can sheep him throughout the game”.

did mafia have pre-game chat?

If true, there’s a few people who on D1 were talking about mafia not knowing setup stuff until nightfall, etc. Slight town leans for them, if I get around to looking them up (I am hoping bessie!Madge will be able to).

Meta note: I’ll be on holiday from the 25th for 3.5 weeks. If this game doesn’t finish by then, scum should probably see about killing me (could I be a power role? Only one way to find out!), or any death victims should keep themselves available as zombie replacements.

BoomFrog wrote:So you believe FreezeBlade is claiming a power role? Do you think he is likely town or scum?

I think he’s more likely town than scum than would be predicted by chance (i.e. more than the ~70% that all players have of being town). I didn’t notice the PR claimy part of his post, and I’m focussing on getting this post finished, so I’m going to have to say I have no opinion. I think VT who thinks they’re going to need a replacement is going to be likely to softclaim a PR so they can waste a kill on their way down, though.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:49 am UTC

Just going to point out that 4 players have yet to put a vote down, with less than 12 hours to go until deadline. Those who haven't done so, I expect a vote, or at the very least an explicit statement of who they would vote for.

@BoomFrog, if freezeblade doesn't come back with a claim by deadline, are you happy to lynch him?
wam wrote:I think we leave it till D3 as if SDK flips town we have 1 more mis lynch to use if we have competing claims.
I've been thinking about this comment, and whilst at this point I think we're going to have to wait until D3, I'm not a fan of it. The reason is that although a town!SDK flip means we still have one mislynch remaining, if freezeblade is scum, but we lynch the counter-claims, then scum can just counter-claim anybody. Actually, never mind, this is probably a bit too far a stretch to worry about. I still think it's better for PR!freezeblade to claim now, since he's likely to be the NK in this instance, and consequently we'll lose any useful results he might have (assuming he has any, of course).

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby bessie » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:18 am UTC

Madge wrote:did mafia have pre-game chat?

The role PMs were taken from this page. If the description says the role has pre-game chat, they have pre-game chat.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:36 am UTC

0k so scum had pre game chat. Well that changes things will have a look at day 1 again.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:36 am UTC

wam wrote:Note on claims if your a town pr make sure any claims align with the setup you know were in.
This is odd advice.

LaserGuy wrote:These are some quick impressions of where I'm at. Won't have time for full reads so this is probably as good as you'll get from me until I get home.
vote please?

Madge wrote:For psychological reasons though I think it’s likely that Mark’s dropoff in activity is because he’s getting frustrated at being found scummy, I think scum!Mark would be more irate about it.
He didn't feel that irate in alien warfare.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Just going to point out that 4 players have yet to put a vote down, with less than 12 hours to go until deadline. Those who haven't done so, I expect a vote, or at the very least an explicit statement of who they would vote for.
Moody already stated intent to vote SDK. He could have changed his mind since then though, since he also mentioned he wouldn't feel bad voting freezeblade.

Will be checking the implications of the pre-game chat later.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby Diemo » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:40 am UTC

I'm currently looking for a replacement for freezeblade.

Deadline is 7PM GMT +1, though I probably won't be online to call it before about 10 or 11 GMT+1
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:45 am UTC

Diemo wrote:I'm currently looking for a replacement for freezeblade.

Deadline is 3PM GMT +1, though I probably won't be online to call it before about 10 or 11 GMT+1
I thought deadline was 8 PM, please confirm?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:20 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
plytho wrote:@jimbob: you’re convinced mark is scum but you’ve made no mention of possible buddies. Any thoughts on that?
Not really thought about this much yet. There isn't much content from him, but skimming his posts, I'd rule out Madge (early tunnel) and SDK (PM-gate - I don't think this would have come up at all between buddies - much more likely SDK and Mark would have discussed it pre-game).
Unless [tunnel="SDK"]It was discussed pre-game but the interaction was planned, meaning SDK knew the answer ahead of time, which made it harder for him to consider alternative answers. [/tunnel]

Non-tunnel: mark talking in thread during confirmation phase could be because scum chat had started and he confused that for game start.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:25 am UTC

plytho wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Just going to point out that 4 players have yet to put a vote down, with less than 12 hours to go until deadline. Those who haven't done so, I expect a vote, or at the very least an explicit statement of who they would vote for.
Moody already stated intent to vote SDK. He could have changed his mind since then though, since he also mentioned he wouldn't feel bad voting freezeblade.
Yes, this is who I was referring to when I said "those who haven't done so", since I have already picked at moody for that statement of intent.
plytho wrote:Will be checking the implications of the pre-game chat later.
Agreed that this is a good idea (I don't have time currently to do it), but I do want to add a word of caution that we cannot assume that a "lack of knowledge of pre-game chat" is equal to town (see also the "scum has/does not have day chat" conversations in recent games, where eventually some scum took advantage of that and fake-town-slipped.

plytho wrote:
Diemo wrote:I'm currently looking for a replacement for freezeblade.

Deadline is 3PM GMT +1, though I probably won't be online to call it before about 10 or 11 GMT+1
I thought deadline was 8 PM, please confirm?
bessie's last votals stated a deadline of 8pm GMT (UTC I presume). As I expect there are several sleeping players assuming this to be the case, please could you confirm the later 8pm UTC deadline.

plytho wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
plytho wrote:@jimbob: you’re convinced mark is scum but you’ve made no mention of possible buddies. Any thoughts on that?
Not really thought about this much yet. There isn't much content from him, but skimming his posts, I'd rule out Madge (early tunnel) and SDK (PM-gate - I don't think this would have come up at all between buddies - much more likely SDK and Mark would have discussed it pre-game).
Unless [tunnel="SDK"]It was discussed pre-game but the interaction was planned, meaning SDK knew the answer ahead of time, which made it harder for him to consider alternative answers. [/tunnel]
FWIW, I don't remember us staging such a discussion in Dark Tower, when LaserGuy, SDK and I were scum-buddies. Whether it might be different for a newbie-scum, I don't know, but I suspect not.

plytho wrote:Non-tunnel: mark talking in thread during confirmation phase could be because scum chat had started and he confused that for game start.
Good point.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby Diemo » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:25 am UTC

plytho wrote:
Diemo wrote:I'm currently looking for a replacement for freezeblade.

Deadline is 3PM GMT +1, though I probably won't be online to call it before about 10 or 11 GMT+1
I thought deadline was 8 PM, please confirm?


Sorry, yeah, you are right
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby mpolo » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:25 am UTC

I was just about to get to this, and feel totally exhausted… Hopefully I'll feel better after a nap/lunch.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:26 am UTC

Diemo wrote:
plytho wrote:
Diemo wrote:I'm currently looking for a replacement for freezeblade.

Deadline is 3PM GMT +1, though I probably won't be online to call it before about 10 or 11 GMT+1
I thought deadline was 8 PM, please confirm?


Sorry, yeah, you are right
Also, please clarify - is the deadline 8PM UTC, or 8PM UTC+1?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:35 am UTC

plytho wrote:
wam wrote:Note on claims if your a town pr make sure any claims align with the setup you know were in.
This is odd advice.
.


Why is it odd? Was just thinking through scum claiming and wondering if they may try and claim a pr in the setup were not in.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby mpolo » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:43 am UTC

Reread of wam (D2):

Spoiler:
Two wagons, SDK would have been lynched if not for extension. Votes SDK. Some votes are interesting if we know SDK and Vic are cross-aligned. First fruited should claim. Reason for endgame fruit strategy. Considers Madge’s view on fruits. Plytho is def town if SDK is scum. Looks at links from the dead. Sabrar suspicious of SDK, freeze and wam. Vic suggests mpolo-SDK team. Fruited claim guarantees one anti-town faction. Asks for two lynch targets (SDK/Freeze). Reasons for top two. SDK’s interpretation of a comment only makes sense if you know Vic and SDK are cross-aligned.

“Weasel out”=saved self. Plan for fruit vendor claim strategy. Catches Mark’s timezone error. Doesn’t make a big deal about it. Setup 10 is likely. Had same plan as jimbob. Cop likely copped SDK and would have possibly jumped in to save SDK. Such a claim would be ill-advised, but still likely. Four most likely scum=boom, Laser, Freeze, SDK. Objection to BoomFrog’s plan. Is he an SDK partner? Why vote someone who may be modkilled?

Need reads from Madge. Reads. Saw soft-claim. Waiting to D3 on this. Pre-game chat from scum changes read of D1. Scum may try to claim something from the wrong setup to confuse us.


Lots of content, usually in small quotes. Keeping up conversations with several people. The only weird thing was the comment about Power claims needing to match the correct setup -- a false claim by a PR seems a sure recipe for disaster, so why suggest it as a possibility? It's only going to get counter-claimed and get us a PR lynched. On the other hand, his not jumping on Mark_Caniglia's time error is more townie than scummy (unless he and Mark are partners, of course).

I don't see wam as a viable lynch target. If I get more time, I can try to look at SDK... At the moment, I feel he is our best choice of lynch, but I don't have a really strong feeling that he has to be scum, either.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:49 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
plytho wrote:Will be checking the implications of the pre-game chat later.
Agreed that this is a good idea (I don't have time currently to do it), but I do want to add a word of caution that we cannot assume that a "lack of knowledge of pre-game chat" is equal to town (see also the "scum has/does not have day chat" conversations in recent games, where eventually some scum took advantage of that and fake-town-slipped.
Yeah, town slips in this regard are pretty much null tells, especially with something as unusual as pre-game chat.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:FWIW, I don't remember us staging such a discussion in Dark Tower, when LaserGuy, SDK and I were scum-buddies. Whether it might be different for a newbie-scum, I don't know, but I suspect not.

Tunnelly:
Spoiler:
I suspect the discussion could have been staged in response to Mark's pm-slip, not that the slip was part of the staging. In dark tower LaserGuy made no such slip so that kind of staging wasn't necessary. (I mention LaserGuy since DT was his second game here so he was pretty newbie scum.) Also, I remember LaserGuy saying SDK's vote for him D1 of DT was somewhat staged, SDK warned LaserGuy that he'd join the unusually big LaserGuy wagon and that LG shouldn't act too alarmed to it (DT had daychat).


wam wrote:Why is it odd? Was just thinking through scum claiming and wondering if they may try and claim a pr in the setup were not in.
Oh, I thought you were advising town pr's not to false-claim roles that didn't match the setup. :D (just like ninja-mpolo apparently)
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:57 am UTC

Oh yeah. Basically I was thinking if I was scum might try and claim a pr I know isn't I the game and get through another day that way. There are more layers to this I won't go into as it would help scum.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby Diemo » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:59 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
Diemo wrote:
plytho wrote:
Diemo wrote:I'm currently looking for a replacement for freezeblade.

Deadline is 3PM GMT +1, though I probably won't be online to call it before about 10 or 11 GMT+1
I thought deadline was 8 PM, please confirm?


Sorry, yeah, you are right
Also, please clarify - is the deadline 8PM UTC, or 8PM UTC+1?


Technically 8PM UTC. But I am not going to be online and deadline is soft, so about 10 UTC+1 (unless bessie is around)
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby moody7277 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:11 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:So you believe FreezeBlade is claiming a power role? Do you think he is likely town or scum?


I think on first glance that is what it looks like. If he is scum, this is something I don't want scum in the future to be able to get away with. If he's vanilla town, this is beer. I think mainly it is a hole his replacement if any is going to have to dig himself out of since we have more popular lynch choices currently (SDK or Mark).

Don't know how close to deadline I'll be able to get back on, so here's this now. Hammer, and you're automatically my D3 vote.

Vote: SDK
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:16 pm UTC

unvote:SDK

moody7277 wrote:Hammer, and you're automatically my D3 vote.
this isn't a credible threat to SDK.

Unofficial Votals:

SDK (4) : wam, Madge, Mark_Cangila, moody7277
freezeblade (2) : BoomFrog, SDK
Mark_Cangila (1) : jimbobmacdoodle

Not Voting (4) : freezeblade, LaserGuy, mpolo, plytho

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to hammer.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:04 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:So you believe FreezeBlade is claiming a power role? Do you think he is likely town or scum?


I think on first glance that is what it looks like. If he is scum, this is something I don't want scum in the future to be able to get away with. If he's vanilla town, this is beer. I think mainly it is a hole his replacement if any is going to have to dig himself out of since we have more popular lynch choices currently (SDK or Mark).



This in pinging me as in votes and my perception freeze is more likely to be lynched than Mark. ....
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:09 pm UTC

@plytho you think SDK would self hammer?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:14 pm UTC

Mark_Cangila wrote: I'll probably have a reads list from this point set up by Monday before deadline.
I am eagerly awaiting this list. Mark, you made some good posts D1, but you've barely said anything D2. We're really going to need some content from you.

wam wrote:@plytho you think SDK would self hammer?
Not likely, but possible. On the other hand, that would tell us he's scum before the night is over so I guess not.

Vote:SDK

NEXT SDK VOTE IS HAMMER!
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby moody7277 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:24 pm UTC

wam wrote:
moody7277 wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:So you believe FreezeBlade is claiming a power role? Do you think he is likely town or scum?


I think on first glance that is what it looks like. If he is scum, this is something I don't want scum in the future to be able to get away with. If he's vanilla town, this is beer. I think mainly it is a hole his replacement if any is going to have to dig himself out of since we have more popular lynch choices currently (SDK or Mark).



This in pinging me as in votes and my perception freeze is more likely to be lynched than Mark. ....


Is that perception based on the fact that Mark only has one vote while fb currently has two?
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:27 pm UTC

Perception based on people who have advocated lynching freeze versus lymchig Mark. Would have to go back and check actual numbers though
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby SDK » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:04 pm UTC

I really feel like I've taken the wrong approach somehow this game. Many of you actually are reading me as town for all the right reasons. Maybe those are the players who actually read my posts? Should I have tried a more concise approach to my responses to plytho? I am surprised that I'm getting lynched for a minor loss of memory, especially considering I've managed to talk myself out of far worse than this in the past! One time too many, perhaps. :P But anyway, no point harping on it.

Not a big fan of moody's interaction with my wagon. He's hedging, but not in an unsure townie kind of way. I read intention there, though I need to confirm that read (in a bit).

I was also thinking this morning that Madge's huge drop in activity is especially suspicious considering the majority of the game was reading her as fairly strongly town. I remember back in Smalltown when we were scum together (with daychat!) she specifically tried to lurk more to maintain her townie image. Her Day 2 posting here has been less impressive. Along with her weak vote on me, that may be because she's scum. Should have asked her more questions about that directly... This post is pretty good though. Might be nothing.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:SDK - you wrote a part of your first D2 post overnight apparently, specifically this:
SDK wrote:My preferred lynches are freezeblade, Sabrar, Vicarin, in that order.
How come Vicarin is there?? He was already dead by the time you wrote this!

No, that particular part was found on my computer when I came back in the next morning right before deadline. I'd written it the previous day and thought I'd already posted it.

plytho wrote:SDK: remains a scum read. His reads list has way too many townies.

There are 5 townies on my most recent list. You have 6... so... oh, right, carry on then, plytho!

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I do find it slightly odd that BoomFrog seems to assume that freezeblade is not a PR, and therefore needs to be lynched.

Boomfrog posted that before freezeblade "soft claimed" (or reminded everyone of it), though I agree with BoomFrog that his soft claim is scummy anyway. I see no reason not to just claim a PR in general terms instead of playing word games that leave room for a vanilla claim later.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Not really thought about this much yet. There isn't much content from him, but skimming his posts, I'd rule out Madge (early tunnel)

I agree with your other comments on Mark's possible buddies, but just wanted to point out that you shouldn't disqualify Madge as a buddy on her side of things. I'm sure she decided to tunnel someone before the game even started. Tunnelling a scum buddy is just good value. Mark's reactions to that tunneling would be the thing to look at (and I think they felt genuine? Worth a check if this becomes relevant).


wam wrote:This in pinging me as in votes and my perception freeze is more likely to be lynched than Mark. ....

I agree. As of Friday, moody was apparently reading freezeblade as more scummy than Mark as well (though not totally clear if this list is ordered, and in what direction).
moody7277 wrote:votable:
SDK
freezeblade
Mark
LaserGuy
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby moody7277 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:11 pm UTC

Had you noticed the heading of that post, you'd have seen that they are in no particular order.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


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