Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 3 - An Unexpected Twist)

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Sabrar
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby Sabrar » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:40 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:If you say "meta read, bessie's scum", then you'd better be the one providing the numbers.
...
So, would you say that these numbers strongly support the "no confirmation post analysis -> bessie is scum" meta read that you're presenting as voteworthy?
You're still not reading what I say. Historical numbers have nothing to do with my read. Why are you insisting on focusing on them?

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:01 pm UTC

Because if you want a meta read to be accurate, I would have thought you'd want it to be better than chance at correctly matching past games?

If your entire read is based on:

Sabrar wrote:
bessie wrote:
Sabrar wrote:But if you're really curious my scum-lean comes from:
Intentional?
Nope, was in the process of writing it out when I interrupted myself with something else and after I came back to this I forgot I started to put this down (and somehow managed to skip it during preview as well). But here is what I envisioned in my mind happening:
- bessie is looking forward to scum-read me :mrgreen:
- suddenly she's scum and knows I'm town so she has to proceed carefully
- she is very self-aware that I might get suspicious if she tries to sheep me again
- she looks for any excuse to be suspicious of me and latches onto me 'discouraging' discussion
- she knows she's supposed to conf-post analysis but she views my Joker as an intentional gambit and is unsure how to react because she can't put down an honest opinion
- therefore she deliberately skips that part


then I'm not seeing how this is sufficient evidence for a vote, because you've got a lot of steps for a scenario you've envisioned. Do you really think it would be difficult for town!bessie to have acted this way in the game so far?

I can't help but think you're using a different definition of meta read to me and bessie...

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby Sabrar » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:07 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:I can't help but think you're using a different definition of meta read to me and bessie...
I wasn't talking about you at all. Why include yourself?

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:08 pm UTC

Example of how I'd have thought you use a meta read:

Sabrar: "Hey, bessie didn't analyse the confirmation posts this game!"

Vicarin: "So?"

Sabrar: "She usually analyzes the confirmation posts as town, and almost never does it as scum. Here, look at her past 10 games for examples."

Vicarin: "Dang, you're right. She's probably scum, given that information".

Sabrar wrote:
Vicarin wrote:I can't help but think you're using a different definition of meta read to me and bessie...
I wasn't talking about you at all. Why include yourself?


Hmmmmm.....

Sabrar wrote:You're still not reading what I say. Historical numbers have nothing to do with my read. Why are you insisting on focusing on them?


If I think that historical numbers have something to do with meta reads, and you don't, and you're asking me about why I think they do....

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby Sabrar » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:11 pm UTC

If you continue to strawman, I'll stop because it's pointless. For the fourth time, my read was due to a specific issue that has no precedent therefore analyzing past games is irrelevant.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:12 pm UTC

If it has no precedent, then I'd hardly call it a meta read. If you're going to call it that, please tell me your definition of a meta read so I know where you're coming from.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby Sabrar » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:21 pm UTC

You don't for one second think that there is a definition on which we can both agree and that wouldn't lead to further arguing, right?
Anyway I generally call it a meta-read if it's dependent on the actual player, i.e. if presented with the same content/circumstances from another player my conclusions would be different.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby Sabrar » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:23 pm UTC

For example me finding bessie scummy for calling my content 'light' when she herself notes that more than half of the players have little content is not a meta-read, I would find that scummy in anyone else as well.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:25 pm UTC

No, that makes sense. I still think it's entirely likely for town!bessie to not do a analysis of your Joker picture confirmation post, but I can see why you'd think bessie is scum from how she reacted (or more accurately, didn't).

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:27 pm UTC

I was using meta read in the sense of someone deviating from their previous established town meta (or matching what they've done in the past as scum), which is why I was so interested in examples from past games.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby Sabrar » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:53 pm UTC

wam wrote:Because his initial posts came off as distancing.
So you actually don't have any issues with his content outside of that?

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby Sabrar » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:58 pm UTC

@Zen: same question to you. Do you have any issues with wam's content outside of how he reacted to BoomFrog vs SuperJedi?

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:01 pm UTC

I got caught up. I'm going to iso everyone and make that reads list on the train. These is what caught my eye:

BoomFrog talking about modkills in his opening post is odd. Could be early distancing from mark or mpolo?

BoomFrog missed the 9-3 setup, odd. Not sure I'm buying no-gambit BoomFrog. This slip could be the gambit.

mpolo answering for mark
@mpolo: why didn't you let Mark answer the question?


moody7277 wrote:plytho: rv Sabrar, gives Sabrar town read based off his mod question, questions Vicarin about his interpretation it, then indulges bessie and wam in further details on his interpretation. slightly townie

(cynical view here: he's covering for Sabrar a lot, up to and including the rv)
I was voting Mark, not Sabrar. Not sure what you mean with your cynical view? How is my rv covering for Sabrar?

I'm not buying the mpolo town slip. The mistake is probably genuine: he didn't read the op. But acting like there are no safe claims is a natural scummy thing to do and if Sabrar is providing the logic, you don't even need to pay too much attention to agree.

Mark_Cangila wrote:I honestly feel like the conf post issue is a red herring and judt an extension of Vic Sabrar and bessie fighting a lot. The issue is that a conf post analysis can't happen if there are no interesting conf posts. So please, both of you, stop for the time being.
Do you think someone's deliberatly using a red herring? If so, who?

bessie wrote:plytho – Is busy. Labels Sabrar town over the mod question thing. 100% of plytho's content so far this game has been related to this, and he wants to further discuss it with me (see here). I think plytho would be in a better position to demand content from others if he provided some himself.
Hoo, boy, I'm not liking this. Wow.

So, yes I'm busy. I wasn't caught up and there ws only one thing I was aware enough to talk about and that was "Sabrar and the mod question". You asked me about that and I answered. Then you pretended like I ignored part of your question. I call you out on that and you ignore it. Then after I prod you on that you dismiss it in your reads post, selling it as me trying to keep talking about Sabrar, while it's actually you I have an issue with.

That last line though :shock:
Refusing to answer because I don't have enough content is absolutely ridiculous. For one, I'm not demanding you produce more content, I'm asking you to respond to my point. That's a false equivalence. Also, does this mean you won't answer questions from Mark, Somi or superjedi because they don't have enough content?

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:16 pm UTC

I think I like my vote right where it is...

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:21 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:I think I like my vote right where it is...
Can you explain why?
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:28 pm UTC

The previous reasons I've given, your complete lack of a reaction to those reasons despite having had plenty of time to react to them, and your reaction to bessie seems significantly blown out of proportion. While her response is... harsh, I'm not seeing it being worth a D1 vote compared to a lot of other people's behavior...

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby moody7277 » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:52 pm UTC

plytho wrote:I was voting Mark, not Sabrar. Not sure what you mean with your cynical view? How is my rv covering for Sabrar?


Checked the first point for myself, and yep. Cynical view is a character I've been developing where I take the most scummy read possible of content.
Applying it to the couple of posts where you were taking a favorable view of Sabrar with the (erroneously attributed) joke vote against him, which I know I've used in the past as a form of distancing, lead to that comment. My straight-up view of you in that reads post was about +3.5. When you remove the error, the read goes to about +5.5.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:57 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:The previous reasons I've given, your complete lack of a reaction to those reasons despite having had plenty of time to react to them, and your reaction to bessie seems significantly blown out of proportion. While her response is... harsh, I'm not seeing it being worth a D1 vote compared to a lot of other people's behavior...
You only gave one reason (unless you count my low amount of content, which I announced in my opening post and mentioned in multiple other posts). That one reason doesn't really merit a response imho because it's simply false.

Re:bessie: Perhaps it looks a lot worse from my side but what I saw was
-bessie twisting my response into me ignoring (part of) her question
-me calling her out on that
-bessie not responding
-me asking for a response
-bessie twisting my prod into an unreasonable demand for content while I have better things to do, while still refusing to respond.

That is far from townie behavior and I find that a lot more suspicious than anything else I've seen so far. She's misrepresenting my content and dodging questions.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:11 pm UTC

@plytho: Hmmm, I was expecting you to say that my argument based on your vote or lack thereof in your first posts was meaningless (and I'd understand that PoV, although disagree with it), but false? What's false about it?

With regards to bessie, if she continued to ignore your question after your new content, your response makes sense, but her not responding until now is somewhat reasonable I think.

Do you think anyone else in this game has been dodging questions?

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:28 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:What's false about it?
I have a data point you're missing, which is the fact that I'm town right now. So I know the pattern is wrong but there's no data I can use to argue against it.
Vicarin wrote:With regards to bessie, if she continued to ignore your question after your new content, your response makes sense, but her not responding until now is somewhat reasonable I think.
I'm not just responding to the dodging, though.

Vicarin wrote:Do you think anyone else in this game has been dodging questions?
I couldn't point to anyone right now. It's a lot easier to detect when I'm the one asking the questions. I'll pick up more when I'm doing the isos.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:39 pm UTC

Right, seeing as that criticism can be levied against literally anything targeted at you, it's not terribly useful for convincing me that I'm wrong. Also, you're rather fatalistic seeing as it's not an airtight pattern (Sabrar pointed out the town game where you immediately voted that I'd missed), so there is data you could use. Hmmmm...

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:01 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:Right, seeing as that criticism can be levied against literally anything targeted at you, it's not terribly useful for convincing me that I'm wrong. Also, you're rather fatalistic seeing as it's not an airtight pattern (Sabrar pointed out the town game where you immediately voted that I'd missed), so there is data you could use. Hmmmm...
I know it's not useful, that's why I didn't use it. I didn't check the pattern myself because I didn't have time and assumed you'd done your homework. Sabrar pointed out you missed one, at this point I assume Sabrar has done his homework. You still believe in the pattern even after Sabrar pointed out a flaw so I guess I couldn't actually use it. Hmm :wink:
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby Sabrar » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:02 pm UTC

Further fun math because I was bored. If a Vig decides to shoot N1 s/he should only do so if they roll an 87 or less on a D100. This gives the closest result of the expected value of the number of Vig-kills being equal to 1.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:18 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:@BoomFrog: where do you draw the line about mistakes being AI? Do you think Mark's use of the word quality instead of quantity here is relevant? Why or why not?

A few posts up from the one linked wam says he is liking the depth of the effort in Vic's research for Vic's posts. So I think quality is the correct word choice. However Mark goes on to talk about quantity of Vic's content in other games, so it's difficult to guess what Mark actually meant. Mark often has little misunderstandings of what others are talking about so it's very difficult for me to have an accurate prediction of what Mark will think. So, I'm not convinced the word choice was a mistake and I don't read any alignment indication into it. Although I do think it would be possible to with a better understanding of Mark.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:02 pm UTC

wam wrote:
Zenii wrote:
Zenii wrote:
wam wrote:If your scum he's scum. I don't see scum boomfrog going after a newbie town beginning of day 1.
Why is this?
Wam, please answer this.


As scum boom knowing he is one of the more experienced after would view going after newbie town day1 as unfair.

My initial plan was to provoke a response and give Jedi something to focus on. However it does seem like he has clammed up, which seems like it's a fear response. He's realizing now that he needs to post something but he's still being vague so he won't accidentally draw links to his mates.

@SuperJedi: This is a newbie game. The point of the game is to play it. Don't be worried about dragging your team down. If you are scum you can double check with your teammates, I think they would prefer you try and maybe blow everything up rather then just clam up and "take one for the team".

@Wam, I agree it's too harsh to lynch a newbie on D1:
Unvote
Vote Wam
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:07 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:Further fun math because I was bored. If a Vig decides to shoot N1 s/he should only do so if they roll an 87 or less on a D100. This gives the closest result of the expected value of the number of Vig-kills being equal to 1.

Why do we not want maximum Vig kills? A) This tells us a lower bound for Vigs and helps at claim time. B) better ratio of town to scum controlled kills. C) I think the only time we want to not use too many Vigs is if we are going to overshoot* LYLO. Getting a more accurate Vig count N1 will help plan N2.

* pun intended.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby Sabrar » Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:28 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:B) better ratio of town to scum controlled kills.
I like consensus town-controlled kills more. 2 misfires takes away a lynch, 1 is just perfect.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:44 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:B) better ratio of town to scum controlled kills.
I like consensus town-controlled kills more. 2 misfires takes away a lynch, 1 is just perfect.

I'd prefer two vig decided kills over 1 lynch and 1 scum NK. But I see what you mean that 1 vig kill is ideal for the current number of town and scum. Thinking about it more my solution is different: I recommend that vigs try to target the player that they think other vigs would also choose. If there are multiple vigs we would prefer them to overlap their kills.

Also, any conclusions from your psychoanalysis of my disposition towards mistakes?
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:00 pm UTC

Rough reads, about to arrive I'll do Vicarin and wam later tonight when I'm at my hotel. I'll probably take a fuller look at bessie too.

bessie: made myself pretty clear there, didn't I?

BoomFrog: I'm trying to figure out whether his misreading of the setup was a genuine mistake or part of a scum gambit. The thing that stands out to me is his confusion about wam's irony.
BoomFrog wrote:
Sabrar wrote:Oh really? And you didn't find wam's "(irony)" equally suspicious?

I don't get why he said "irony" now that I think about it.
This feels like a confused BoomFrog performance more than a confused BoomFrog. He only talks about his confusion and doesn't ask any clarification. He's literally saying I'm confused about 9-3.
After he 'figures out' we're in 9-3 by modvoice he re-emphasizes his confusion:
BoomFrog wrote:Now the "irony" comment is even more confusing... Wam, please explain.
wam wrote:So setup speculation I'm guessing 9-3 (irony).

What exactly were you thinking and saying in this sentence? Please be honest and detailed.
Now, it could be genuine confusion but it was so clear to me from the get-go that I just can't see how BoomFrog can be confused at this point. It's such an obvious joke to make.
@BoomFrog: what did you expect out of this line of questioning.
BoomFrog wrote:
wam wrote:It was a joke, an admittedly bad one...

I put irony in there as otherwise I would have spent 4 pages arguing about it.

It was a joke because you knew the setup literally stated the set-up was 9-3? Or some other reason?
What other reason could there possibly be?

The sudden realization also feels a bit like a performance:
BoomFrog wrote:My reading of the setup was that cards were dealt randomly and we got an average of 1/4th scum but could have more or less. Although the chance of having only 1 scum of 5 scum seems not newbie friendly so I should probably reread the setup. And... there it is in the first sentence. So nevermind...


@Sabrar: btw, why would wam's comment be equally suspicious to superjedi's?
Sabrar wrote:Oh really? And you didn't find wam's "(irony)" equally suspicious?


I do like BoomFrog's prodding of mark. I do disagree with wam about BoomFrog talking a lot about superjedi.

I disagree with Boom's mpolo read, or at least with the slip.
BoomFrog wrote:Mpolo didn't like to try and be tricky. He always plays it safe.
Agreeing Sabrar logic isn't that tricky.

BoomFrog leaning somewhat scummy. I'm not really that confident in my case but if I'm right at least I have it on record :)

Mark: I like Mark's vote, it was self explanatory. I don't like this post because it feels like he's copying opinions from others. (As others have noted, the opinion is incorrect.)
I don't like how mpolo aswered a question adressed to mark, allowing him to say this:
Mark_Cangila wrote:Also, I agree that we shouldn't claim suits. If scum do have PR safe claims, I still see no bonus to claiming suits now, instead of doing then along with full claims. If scum don't have pr safes, claiming suits now could be directly damaging, as Mpolo mentioned.

I do like this post:
Mark_Cangila wrote:I honestly feel like the conf post issue is a red herring and judt an extension of Vic and bessie fighting a lot. The issue is that a conf post analysis can't happen if there are no interesting conf posts. So please, both of you, stop for the time being.
and I'm interested in hearing Mark's answer about it.

moody: Always tricky to read moody. I like his style. So far nothing's pinging me solid neutral.


mpolo: I really don't agree with BoomFrog's assessment about this being a town slip.
mpolo wrote:BoomFrog's pointing out a "town slip" on me feels like it's coming from a townie place. (The truth is, I had missed the part of the rules that there were safe claims, partly because I was rushing to get a post in from having missed day begin. In any case, I did later come to understand what Sabrar had said and still agreed with it.)
When did you figure this out? Why didn't you say so in your following post?
Very low on content with one post based on misread information, one answering a question instead of mark and a third with three reads. (neutral,town, town)

Sabrar: Reading him as townie for that no comment response. His flip flopping on BoomFrog also feels genuine. I don't see scum!Sabrar jumping around like that.

somitomi: Low on content.
somitomi wrote:Um yes, I have become unmotivated since the start of the game, probably because of university-related anxiety. I always feel like I don't have much to say D1 anyway. I know this is a lame excuse, will try :|

I wouldn't expect such a lack of motivation coming from scumitomi right after that successful scum game. Which means he's either town, scum with other unmotivated people or scum with gambity players trying something weird. I'm leaning town tbh because it's easier to motivate yourself to step up for your team when you know who they are. Letting scummates down is harder than letting town mates down. So slight town lean.

Superjedi224: Learning the game, would be lurkylynched if he wasn't a newbie. Talking really is a major part of the game. If you don't know what to say, look at what other people are saying and see if you agree or not. Then say whether you agree or not and try to explain why.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:30 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:Now the "irony" comment is even more confusing... Wam, please explain.
wam wrote:So setup speculation I'm guessing 9-3 (irony).

What exactly were you thinking and saying in this sentence? Please be honest and detailed.
Now, it could be genuine confusion but it was so clear to me from the get-go that I just can't see how BoomFrog can be confused at this point. It's such an obvious joke to make.
@BoomFrog: what did you expect out of this line of questioning.
If wam had said "haha" instead of "irony" I think I'd have gotten it. But irony to me means that wam is referring to some past game where he did something contrary to what he is doing now. So, maybe he attacked someone in a previous game for having such a simple setup spec. I felt like there was a deeper reference I was missing. It just seemed super weird to use the word irony to mean "I'm joking" so I overthought it. But yeah, it turned out to be a super shallow comment with nothing to read into so I dropped it.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:37 pm UTC

Edited. This was a spoiler that was meant for gojoe...
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby Sabrar » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:09 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:Also, any conclusions from your psychoanalysis of my disposition towards mistakes?
No. It felt like it's somewhat more likely coming from scum but I'm pretty sure you're town, so...

plytho wrote:@Sabrar: btw, why would wam's comment be equally suspicious to superjedi's?
Both were equally unnecessary. I thought BoomFrog's reason to vote SuperJedi was incorrect (the comment being NAI) and I wanted to know why he considered it differently from wam's remark.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:57 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:Edited. This was a spoiler that was meant for gojoe...


Noting this. Please be more careful in the future.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:09 pm UTC

A time for lists:

Plytho - First to really commit to Sabrar being town for the confident attempt at predicting the safe-claims. If Sabrar was mafia then mafia!plytho wouldn't buddy this blatantly. If Sabrar is town plytho would probably not want to make life so easy for Sabrar, but plytho is a bold enough scum player that he might. Also, I really like his read of me, it feels genuine and well thought out. If he is scum, there's some self-delusion levels of logic going on. - Probably town

mpolo - town-slip gives some townie credit, but later posts are quite empty. - slightly townie but moving down

Sabrar - SafeClaim thing felt townie, I am surprised at how confident his town read of me is. He should be more wary of me then that. Attack on Bessie needs a closer look, but feels tenuous and slightly scummy. - hesitantly townie

Zenii - I've come around to the mpolo "town-slip" not being as strong as I thought, but I still think it's comparable in strength to plytho or Sabrar's tpwniness and find Zen's dismissiveness of that to be slightly scummy (with high uncertainty). I like his logic about wam's interaction with me and SuperJedi, but if wam turns out to be town I will have to revisit this. Zen has purposely been reserved but I don't find that alignment indicative. Townie vibe from tone which is good enough for D1. - Slightly townie (town if wam or Jedi are scum) (town if mpolo is scum) (scummy if plytho or Sabrar are scum).

moody7277 - Reasonable content, nothing strong either way. Will have to sort by POE at this rate. - neutral

bessie - I'm having a lot of trouble here. Her reaction to Sabrar's attack is not what I expected, but I am not confident what alignment the difference indicates. @Bessie: What do you think Sabrar's alignment is?

somitomi - Lack of real content, although plytho's read of that being a townie mood is interesting. - slightly scummy

Mark_Cangila - Very passive - decent chance of scum

Vicarin wrote:
wam wrote:
Vicarin wrote:Actually, the most interesting thing was that you seemed sure that we would get a mod answer that would clarify the situation...


Why would this be alignment indicative?


Did I say it was? :P

plytho wrote:I think this implies Sabrar is either town or scum has no pr-safe claims. But I'm strongly leaning town tbh.

Vicarin wrote:
Sabrar wrote:Why is it interesting if it's NAI?

Well, partially because it implies that LaserGuy might have changed his answers, which is interesting and has nothing to do with anyone's alignment. But yes, mostly because I'd say it's a decent town indication.


Vicarin - This flip is really pinging me. And Sabrar's non-follow-up is pinging me too. If Sabrar is scum Vic is like 95% chance of scum. If Sabrar is town this is still a very scummy response from Vic. - Scummy (however I've been wrong about Vic the last two games, so I'm not confident enough to vote here)

wam - I find his logic to be flawed about the me and SuperJedi thing. I could see how he could arrive at some of his conclusions but his explanation doesn't make sense. Normally I'd find wildly strange logic to be actually townie, but Wheel of Time III showed me that weird logic wam may just be scum wam. - scummy

SuperJedi224 - Hashed out already - probably scum
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:20 pm UTC

Uh, you know I did my first response there was because I didn't mention it was alignment indicative, yet wam assumed that I found it interesting because of that. I wanted to know where he was getting that from.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:43 pm UTC

Unofficial Votecount:

Sabrar (1): Mark
BoomFrog (1): wam
wam (1): BoomFrog
Superjedi (1): Zenii
plytho (1): Vic, SuperJedi
Bessie (1): Sabrar, plytho

Not voting: bessie, moody, mpolo, somitomi

Deadline in 1 day, 17 hours.

Mark's vote is a RVS vote that he has left on forever. It's time for everyone to make town-scum lists and lay down real votes.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:43 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:Uh, you know I did my first response there was because I didn't mention it was alignment indicative, yet wam assumed that I found it interesting because of that. I wanted to know where he was getting that from.

But you said it was alignment indicative in the end. Why is it surprising that he got that from your tone?
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:52 pm UTC

Not too surprising that he picked it up, but was surprised at how sure he seemed to be when he asked. Would have expected something along the lines of "Do you find that alignment indicative then?".

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby Mark_Cangila » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:25 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
Sabrar wrote:@BoomFrog: where do you draw the line about mistakes being AI? Do you think Mark's use of the word quality instead of quantity here is relevant? Why or why not?

A few posts up from the one linked wam says he is liking the depth of the effort in Vic's research for Vic's posts. So I think quality is the correct word choice. However Mark goes on to talk about quantity of Vic's content in other games, so it's difficult to guess what Mark actually meant. Mark often has little misunderstandings of what others are talking about so it's very difficult for me to have an accurate prediction of what Mark will think. So, I'm not convinced the word choice was a mistake and I don't read any alignment indication into it. Although I do think it would be possible to with a better understanding of Mark.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 1)

Postby Mark_Cangila » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:26 pm UTC

This was a miss post. Full post coming soon


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