Well, as Laserguy will soon explain, you don't need to worry about tied votes until I'm gone. And wherever there's a death, I'll be there (like I said in the first post). I basically look almost as scummy as possible while being town.
Sabrar wrote:Don't like BoomFrog changing his mind at the last minute with no explanation. Plus SJ's hinted role is consistent with his earlier behavior (however strange that is). Vic + BF is more probable now.
Unvote Vote: Vicarin
Wtf is this? As dimochka said, I need to see SJ's role to see if I think it's fake. Vague hints don't cut it at this stage. Especially coming from sj who is very willing to make wild shit up, but would have a hard time coming up with a realistic role that fits LGs style.
No role claim just looks a lot like newbie scum imploding under mild pressure. As you've said, I have scam wam too much leeway under similar circumstances.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos
A furious debate among the assembly ensued, with each making increasingly wild accusations at each other. Finally a consensus was reached, and one of their number was sent to MahtoG asylum for processing. The others set off into the night to fight crime in their own unique ways.
Vicarin has been lynched. His role will be revealed in the morning.
N1 has begun. Deadline for action submission in just over 24 hours
The assembled heroes return to the mayor and slam the perpetrator on his desk.
"We have caught him!" says the Bumbling Professor.
The mayor frowns, "Who?"
"A great villain!" replies Admiral Armadillo.
"This is a cell phone," says the mayor. "What am I supposed to do with it?"
"Destroy it before it kills us all!"
The mayor holds the phone in his hands, confused. Finally, he turns on the phone and addresses it. "These folk say you are a villain of unsurpassed cunning. What do you have to say for yourself?"
"That suit makes you look fat," replies the phone.
"Of all the nerve! I had this suit custom tailored!" shrieks the mayor.
"Hawkeye is the only good Avenger," said the phone.
"Hawkeye! He's a guy with a bow! He doesn't even have any superpowers!" stammered the mayor.
"Bernie Sanders had an affair with Hillary Clinton."
"Enough of this nonsense! What do you have to say in your defense?"
"It wasn't me. I have an alibi," replied the phone.
"What's that?" replied the mayor.
"I was with your mom."
With a shriek the mayor grabbed the phone and threw it out the window. He realized that the heroes were all there still watching him.
"Ahem. Good work. Carry on then."
Vicarin was lynched. He was The Anti-Suffragette, aligned with the Apps of Destruction.
Troll is such a harsh word for what you do. You prefer the term “anti-suffragette”. You are a chatbot that scours the Internet for forums, newsgroups, Facebook pages, Twitter feeds. Anywhere you can post. You thrive on controversy, feed on reactionary politics. You wish nothing more than to make people hate each other for holding different opinions about anything. You almost single-handedly destroyed a community dedicated to crochet by creating an argument over the best kinds of yarn. Above all, you despite voting and will stop at nothing to ensure that people are too upset, too frustrated, and too blinded to vote.
Vote Thief: Each night, target a player. That player will be unable to vote for the following day phase.
Night kill: You have access to a factional one-shot night kill. It will not be refunded if it fails, so use it wisely. You may not use the kill on N1.
You are in the Apps of Destruction with <redacted> and have daychat with them in your QT here. You win if you control a majority of the vote or nothing can prevent this from occurring. You also win in any situation where it is impossible for all other factions to achieve their wincon.
Day 2 has begun. With 10 players, it takes 6 to hammer. Deadline is Tuesday May 20. See here
Given I had plenty of time last night, I worked more on the reads I didn't get to. Still got two left though.
Says he shouldn't do a gambit to spite Vicarin. Somebody has to get mislynched D1. Votes self. Weird powers interesting, but don't talk about them. Setup specs so far vague and casual. Asks people to explain details. Warns SJ to not leak hints of his role. Thinks range in usefulness of powers. Would make great self-combustion man. Claims to have generated significantly more discussion than Sabrar. Awards wam point for sincere scum hunting, declares him town, asks bessie to explain disbelief in Millers. Posts ordered list with wam, SJ, PW top, Vicarin, Sabrar, dimochka bottom. Promises reasons only in response to others explanations. Asks moody why giving middling town read on Sabrar. Copied list from PW not sufficient for explanations. Day chat basically a given, or possibly no chat, but would be cruel. Explains 8-3 setup. No mafia chat intriguing. Vic content forced - trying to provoke people into generating useless noise and hasn't tried to generate useful content. Asks why he is so high on Vic's list. High volume != Town. SJ should post more about his opinions of others, not about himself. Explains Sabrar low position reasoning - only (oddly targeted) prodding, not providing own content; would expect better content from Sabrar by now. Does not like dimochka ordered list reasoning; seems opportunistic. Bottom players easy to lynch. Votes dimochka. Didn't notice that other lists had same problem, explains reason for not noticing Vicarin and moody lists. Responds to Vicarin question re. SJ difference from previous game - remembers statistical analysis, and SJ was SK. Behaviour is different, but not useful to judge. Sensitivity to being voted suspicious, talking about own role newbie town, unless interesting safe claim. Thinks best to let live until D2 or D3 at least. Suspicious of lazy scum hunting if one's list matches easy to lynch list too closely. Busy, so can't make persuasive case. dimochka feels similar to Shakespeare 3 (coasting with minimal effort), interesting nobody else interested in him. SJ has gone off the rails, suggesting anti-town indie. Suggests SJ full claims. Happy with dimochka/Vic lynch, also SJ if he doesn't claim.
Votes Vicarin, but will switch to SJ if he doesn't have a really good claim. wam wouldn't fake claim strange miller. Concerned with amount of leaking from SJ. Thinks scum!PW wouldn't have leaked a hint that he did, and feels townie. Vic gambit sabotage was not original motivation. Attitude wasn't antagonistic. Backs off on Vicarin after explanation, suggests joining on dimochka, and votes. Explains why assumed D1 mislynch, and was going to "try" to get himself lynched. Votes SJ, wanting to see SJ's role. Vague hints don't cut it. Thinks no role claim is newbie scum imploding. Switches to Vicarin, "figured out SJ role".
I'm definitely seeing a lot of stuff in BoomFrog's content that I don't really like, whilst also getting a fairly negative feeling from him. BoomFrog has shown in the past that he is able to look scummy if he wants to, then turn into strong townie. With the pressure he was under, he would have already done the latter before Day end (plus he doesn't let his gambits last until D2 as far as I remember), so he isn't being intentionally stubborn as far as I can tell. That leaves two possibilities: either he's scum, or his lack of time makes him look scummy.
His comment re. D1 mislynch is interesting, though I'm not convinced it's AI. His attitude towards SJ is somewhat concerning, in my opinion. I think there was enough information out there to make reasonable guesses about SJ's role without him needing to claim, especially given that he was supposedly doing it to try to judge whether the claim was a real one, yet had previously admitted that a false claim was plausible. I'm not sure I like how he refuses to give initial explanations until others have provided their own, but again, I think this is NAI - I can see a town motivation for doing it that way, and a scum one (the scum motivation is to see others opinions and curate own around them, the town is to stop suspected scum doing exactly that). His late Vicarin vote (effectively sealing the lynch) is suspicious, given that it was without explanation and he'd even previously seemed to have been satisfied with Vicarin's explanation. I'm not even going to give him town credit if Vicarin flips scum because BoomFrog is BoomFrog. Conclusion: likely scum.
Not doing RVS. Asks Vicarin why not 7-2-1-1. Ponders whether Sabrar restriction actual one. Moody chess moves probably restriction, but not correlated to anything. Waiting for others to post before giving more content. Delayed because limited content so far. Not indie. Thought many unusual roles meant many Indies. Thinks 8-3 more likely now. Thought Indies were survivor and SK. Jester possible, but doesn't think we have one. 2 killing roles possibly imbalanced. Could see workaround. Posts thoughts about everyone. Bessie setup logic weak. Points out wam didn't claim miller. Neutral leaning town. BF doesn't feel adding value. Asks to explain Vicarin or Sabrar read. Neutral. Asks freezeblade about indies. Needs more from him. Neutral leaning scum. Me, agrees with setup spec, and O raise good points. Town for now. Moody provided good thoughts on reads. Leaning town. PW lack of trying not good. Asks him questions. Leaning scum. Sabrar agree with views, but probably tricking him. Townier side of neutral. Needs more from SJ: neutral. Vicarin early setup spec unhelpful, but later content ok. Neutral lean town. Wam early claim townie. Has FB, PW scummiest, me, Bessie towniest. Promises vote in next post.
Will rethink setup based on mod. Aware others talked about miller, and point stands against them too. Thought BF didn't want to reveal full reasoning so only asked about one player. Also wanted to see response. Provided reasoning behind list, so wasn't opportunistic. Also notes similarity to others lists and surprised by BF vote remaining. Asks freezeblade for explanation for different role suggestions. My thoughts align with his, doesn't usually see this on D1. Feels SJ response overreaction, but not necessarily scummy, but later content suspicious. Posts less as scum. Doesn't understand interest in his setup spec. Earlier reads were mostly reaction tests. More people feeling scummy. Doesn't care about previous game setups. Posts updated reads. Wam not as townie as bessie. PW feels like unhelpful townie. Vicarin downgraded to neutral due to nitpicking, not answering fully, but okay with gambit point. BF D1 mislynch comment standing out. SJ stubborn or unhelpful indie at best or scum trying to untangle self at worst. Underline votes SJ, concerned by bit shenanigans.
Rereads BF. Less content than expected, some opinions strange. Picking on him for small things. Votes BF. Notes tie means No Lynch. Points out BoomFrog did what he said he would do re SJ vote.
I'm mostly feeling okay with dimochka's content. His reasoning in general feels okay, and I'm not bothered by either his indie heavy setup spec or his lack of follow up on promises for more content/vote in next post - I think he's done both in the past and it's NAI. I have a slight concern about his different positions of Sabrar and I despite his reasoning seeming to match for us both. If either he or Sabrar flip as scum, the other is a strong candidate for a buddy I think. His underline vote for SJ strikes me as townie, at least for the stated reasons. Leaning town, but not heavily so.
D1 sucks. Pseudo miller interesting. Thinks wam can't be investigated, puts at null due to likely crazy roles. 7-3-1 setup guess, with town aligned indie. Doesn't think daychat likely in this setup. Lists range of possible indie roles, focusing on non-killing, possibly investigative. Vote shenanigans powers likely. If in hands of mafia, setup is 8-2-1.
freezeblade is not really that different from his usual D1 self. His content is perhaps lower than usual and focused more on setup than normal. From other players, I'd put this down as scummy. From freezeblade, I think it's NAI. There's not enough here to give a read of anything other than neutral. Possibly on the scummier side of the line.
Posting suggestions in play. Sabrar RV standard move. Votes PW over emoji in confirmation post. Bessie comments overexplaining joke, but bessie might have misunderstood, so townier view. Discusses his chess skills. Not chess master, but middling good. 7-3-1, then 8-2-1 likely setups (indie likely). Bessie reverted to typical behaviour, so solid town. Agrees with my thoughts on wam miller claim meaning he's likely town. Middling town read on Sabrar. Confused by PW ordered list, thinks it may be complete nonsense. Deep dives on Sabrar. Earlier content good. Thinks focus on dimochka indies NAI. PW copy-pasting list shady.
Reads list: bessie mostly townie (+5). BoomFrog probably town (+3.5). Dimochka -1 to +2. Freezeblade 0 to +2. Me town lean +1.5 to 3. Doesn't understand PW -2 to +0.5. SJ nothing to sink teeth into (-0.5 to 1.5). Vicarin and wam town lean (+2.5). Provides ordered list with PW and SJ bottom. Dimochka seems to know more than the average townie based on setup. Freezeblade and wam reads adjusted to account for meta/bad luck. Previously reading bessie as not bessie had her as scum. Wants SJ to give non wishy-washy reads list. Recalls SJ previous list style. Surprised by not being easy to lynch. PW needs to provide a list or face the noose. Deep dives SJ. Entire content feels resigned due to role mechanics, aside from one fair reads list. Cynical view has him as jester. Waiting for conclusion of PW's compare and contrast list. Looks worse without it. Has SJ, PW and dimochka as lynchables.
moody feels okay for now, the aside from missing a couple of issues relating to Peaceful Whale's lists. If one is scum, there's a good chance the other is. I find it slightly interesting that he doesn't follow the crowd in labelling me as strongly town, but he's hardly scum reading me. I think he could do with looking more at some players though. Aside from his reads lists, I feel like his interactions have been on the narrower aide of things. Still, leaning town.
I'm glad I was right earlier about Vicarin, as I was beginning to cool on his lynch late on. Wam's setup spec sounds plausible, but it won't be a symmetrical 2-2, I suspect. More later after having dinner.
For the record, I was feeling decently townie about Vicarian but thought that SJ was defiantly town. That's why I emphasized that I was selecting Not Guilty for SJ, vs guilty for Vic. However, my expectations for SJ have not materialized, so I'm going to have to have a think about the whole thing.
@JimBob: What would you expect Townie-but-limited-time BF to do differently then what I have done so far?
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos
BoomFrog wrote:@JimBob: What would you expect Townie-but-limited-time BF to do differently then what I have done so far?
I'm not sure I have any strong points here, honestly. I find it hard enough to judge some people as it is sometimes (you, Sabrar, bessie, and probably others are among this set). Things that maybe might be different would have been being clearer at the time of your vote for why you voted Vicarin, and also your general stance towards SJ and his claiming - i.e. pushing for it despite the info leak and the fact that you yourself said he could have a safe claim.
On with the last two reads.
Votes wam, saying might be scum with investigative blocking ability/trying to persuade investigators not to target him. Asks for more info on actual results. Thinks might be indie. Something feels off with coming out straight away. Greets everyone. Asks Sabrar/Vic about their opinions on BF having them as scummiest. Thinks a little early to make full scum lists, and thinks BF's is a gut feeling list. Asks him for reasoning on most scummiest. Copies BF's list. Analyses BF's opinion of wam's scum hunting. Getting lynched worst thing that can happen to a townie. Scum put under pressure tend to seem more scummy. Think scum should redirect townie attention. Townies should fight against accusations. More suspicious of BoomFrog and votes him. Gathers up all the ordered lists. Admits copying BF's list was a joke. Posts some reads: FB lurking; agrees with Sabrar reads mostly, but wouldn't be surprised if scum, and doesn't trust himself; Vicarin townie-ish. Doesn't think dimochka forgetting sinister, willing to lynch BF. Bessie seems like normal bessie, but doesn't trust to rank her. SJ voting Vic despite redeeming himself in PW's eyes - notes lack of effort from them. Unvotes.
I'm not sure how to read Peaceful Whale honestly. I agree that him copying BoomFrog's list was weird, but also probably intended as a joke. I don't think he'd be deliberately obviously scummy like that. His reflection on what town or scum generally try to do is a very verbose way of trying to say that he finds BoomFrog scummy. Without a BoomFrog flip, it's hard to judge this aspect, but it felt a bit like active lurking to me. His last major post does genuinely seem like he's trying to help. There are actually some half-decent reads in there, even if he missed half the players. However, putting Vicarin down as towny-ish obviously looks somewhat worse in hindsight (though hardly damning). I'm inclined to go with slightly townie, but could easily be persuaded otherwise here. somitomi gets to try to push me into a firmer opinion.
Poem + joke + RV wam. SJ random vote reaction too defensive, FoSses him. IGMEOYs Vicarin re. BoomFrog gambit prevention. BF's reasoning re. mislynch is clearly false. Clarifies bessie/moody confirmation post point of view. Still thinking about setup. Would have been useful if Vicarin had let BF gambit. wam setup reasoning makes sense, except if 3 scum and powers similar to example. Suggests BF would be good self-combustion man. Has town read on PW. Explains wam claiming miller D1 is correct play. Prods freezeblade. Won't force an argument with Vicarin. Doesn't see the connection between smaller lynch pool and slow game start. Asks bessie about "forced" comment. Insists people contribute. Asks bessie why she cares about her image. Asks BF for one town and one scum. Suggests dimochka should claim indie. Still finds 8-2-1 possible, and explains why, but could also be 8-3. BF doesn't feel like significantly contributed. Prods freezeblade for more useful stuff. BF consistently reads him wrong early game. Explains belief in my SJ vote being random. SJ took more seriously than necessary. Misread bessie comment re. "forced". Unvotes. Asks bessie if she has issues with wam's content aside from miller, and about 8-2-1 setup. Asks BF about moody/Vicarin lists being similar to dimochka's. Asks FB for player opinions. No deviation from moody compared to town games, and has him as solid town-lean. SJ defence the issue, not counter-vote. Prods SJ a lot, re. shouting "I'm Town", godfather comments, and mislynch belief. Doesn't like BF's reasoning for taking issue with dimochka et al lists. Asks me to explain why SJ obv scum, and happy to wait a little for my explanation. Thinks SJ implication of guaranteed lynch seems ridiculous. Town-reads wam.
Comments on all players. Notes bessie focus on wam and SJ, and lack of comments on BF. No reason to suspect her. BF hasn't really pushed his scummy reads, and content feels lacking for the current stage of D1. Would expect more reads now, and more attempt to drive the lynch. Something feels off. dimochka main post with content looks reasoanble, and more likely coming from town. FB meta protects him D1. Me, good questions and engagement, doesn't see anything alarming. Town-lean, but wouldn't be surprised if wrong. PW tone and early claim give townie vibe. Vote reasoning is logical. Needs to post opinions. SJ role suggestions possibly confusing. Says power activation is a fake concern of SJ. Thinks much more likely to be scum. Vicarin early game content push feels unnatural. Not rolefishing, but some comments feel no purpose. Notes lack of explanation in reads list, and feels like he's keeping his head down. Getting scummy vibes from him, probably not aligned with SJ or BF. wam claim feels too much for a gambit, some discussion of how it lines up with setups. Giving credit for early claim. Puts moody, me, wam towniest; BF, Vicarin, SJ scummiest and votes SJ. Reacts to various bessie comments, mostly disagreeing, and notes various misguided comments etc. Doesn't think we should mass claim. Responds to SJ random speculation. PW compilation useless and waiting to see what he gets out of it. Long discussion re. mod role examples and how they line up with this game.
Vicarin argument comment now seems to be an attempt to simulate his townie play. Prefers to lynch SJ, since scum!SJ would absolve Vicarin. My explanation re. gambit is genuine. Likes my reads, less my conclusions. Push from Vicarin on SJ came too early in his opinion to be a bus. Townie reaction to my vote was to ignore/acknowledge the joke, and SJ reaction implies something to hide. Willing to switch to Vicarin. Uncomfortable with only 1-vote difference, and asks people for votes. Vicarin's power is publicly verifiable, but doesn't make him town. Doesn't like BF changing mind without explanation and SJ hinted role consistent with earlier behaviour, and switches vote to Vicarin.
Nothing strikes me as truly suspicious about Sabrar so far, though for some reason I feel like his content is a little lighter than usual. I don't agree with his view on SuicideJunkie, but I'm not suspicious of that view really. Given Vicarin's flip, the fact that he took a while to get around to it causes me to raise my eyebrows a little, but I need to look further at timelines before reading anything into it. Aside from SJ, the rest of his opinions aren't far off my own, so either very persuasive, or townie.
Given Vicarin's flip, I've clearly got too many people townie in my reads, I feel. Clearly I'm not in a suspicious mood today. Below is my approximate ordered list without thinking about Vicarin's flip and votals etc.
Well, I tried to snoop on what Dimochka was up to, but got No Result.
So, from freezeblade we have at least three factions. Without indies, that would make it 7-2-2 or 5-3-3? Depends on how hostile the factions are to each other I suppose. In any case, the scum faction(s) are down one now, and if all faction kills are one-shot, that makes me much happier for myself
I would have said that I'm clearly town, since if the mafia was going to leave anyone to hang as a sacrifice, it would be me... but multiple factions ruin that logic.
I'll have to try and parse out everything, but first impression is that D2 should be following the quantum cop and then lynching him if it is a lie. Might be too easy, have to see how things shake out.
@Somitomi: If you ignore all the hoopla about me and my role, the D1 chat will be a lot less overwhelming.
Sabrar wrote:wam: is capable of gambiting, however claiming a different type of Miller (aka 'no result') feels too much.
That’s not what wam claimed. Already pointed out by me here when I acknowledged my earlier misunderstanding of wam’s claim.
It's exactly what wam claimed ('sort of Miller' where the Cop doesn't get a town nor scum result). Unless he's claiming indie there is no difference in his claim and my wording of it.
Is not. I had a theory that “cop” results were not actually town, mafia, indie, non town, etc. My theory was that the mafia faction is not human, so cop results would be human/non human (or some variation). After I reread wam’s claim, I thought that maybe what he meant was that he cops as a puppy or something like that, which would appear to be non alignment indicative. Thus my remark in the next quote.
bessie wrote:Have you considered that perhaps the townie powers only appear weak, but are all actually just very specific, and are useful if you are clever enough to deduce how the power is intended to be used?
Combustion Man is quite easy to figure out. Otherwise, no I haven't. If you're talking about figuring things out in isolation then Crossover was a good example on how mod's intentions are hardly apparent to players, making this a bad idea. If we're talking about mass claims and combining powers then I think it would be mainly scum who would benefit.
So, if you have an investigative power that tells you, say, whether or not your target is a puppy, it may appear a weak or worthless power. However, if the mafia faction are all puppies, then it is a very useful power (now that you have been clever enough to deduce how to use it).
bessie wrote:Sabrar assumes lesser abilities, this is an assumption that someone that has only seen one role pm shouldn’t be in a position to make.
I can't speak for the others who had the same idea but I have my own role-pm, the example the mod provided, the general flavor of the game and some hints from other players as well. Yes, it's an assumption. I tend to do those...
Never assume (it makes for a very poor quality engineer).
somitomi wrote:I'm here but I'm not gonna have much time to read or post before Saturday. If a couple people would summarize D1 for me, I would be eternally grateful.
Sure. Former-you had a very scummy D1. See my analysis of former-you’s content here.
moody7277 wrote:somi gets the usual tabula rasa read for a sub-in, especially since some of PW's scumminess could have been idiosyncratic.
Interesting, why didn’t you give Peaceful Whale the PW-meta-allowance on D1? You voted for him in RVS and never switched, even when there was a close race between the two lynch leaders that may have resulted in a tie.
freezeblade wrote:I am an uncertainty cop: I target someone at night, if they don't move, I cop them. If they move, I track them.
Wow that appears to be a strong, non-terrible power, so different from a lot of the D1 speculation!
SuicideJunkie wrote:In any case, the scum faction(s) are down one now, and if all faction kills are one-shot, that makes me much happier for myself
I think it’s dangerously optimistic to assume all factional kills are one shot.
SuicideJunkie wrote:I suppose I should point out that in hindsight, Town's win condition makes the multiple hostile factions thing obvious, but leaves the door open for other possibilities.
bessie wrote:I had a theory that “cop” results were not actually town, mafia, indie, non town, etc.
That didn't occur to me but I see your point.
bessie wrote:Never assume (it makes for a very poor quality engineer).
When has that ever stopped me?
'Church of moo' sounds very much like cult (and is just silly enough to actually be true) however I don't see Cult + scum faction with only 1-shot kill viable. There must be more nk-s around and Cult + 2 scum-factions is too much. Unless it's 7-2-1-1 with SK? But then mislynch D1 + kill + recruit means a potential 4-2-2-1 on D2 and Town is already in minority with 2 kill powers out there. So this doesn't feel right either.
I would have said BoomFrog was clearly Vic's buddy here but this result makes me doubt it. Plus I made the same assumption in WoT3...
Extremely unlikely to be Vic's buddy: jimbobmacdoodle, SuicideJunkie, wam Quite unlikely to be Vic's buddy: bessie
I don't think there are too many other connections to deduce further.