The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

For your simulated organized crime needs.

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jayhsu
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby jayhsu » Mon May 23, 2011 3:31 pm UTC

Maff effect:

Spoiler:
Was wondering about that. Darn.
-Jay

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ForAllOfThis
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby ForAllOfThis » Mon May 23, 2011 5:47 pm UTC

Resistance:

Spoiler:
I'm rooting for scum. It's all on Chan's head now though to get on the final mission.

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Aaeriele » Mon May 23, 2011 6:05 pm UTC

Nottingham:

Spoiler:
I really wish people could at least commit a reasonable amount of time to a game that's actively running; taking 10 minutes to write a post when you haven't posted for the past 1-2 days seems like it shouldn't be a problem - and if it is, then really maybe it's time to ask for a replacement. :/
Vaniver wrote:Harvard is a hedge fund that runs the most prestigious dating agency in the world, and incidentally employs famous scientists to do research.

afuzzyduck wrote:ITS MEANT TO BE FLUTTERSHY BUT I JUST SEE AAERIELE! CURSE YOU FORA!

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Mavketl » Mon May 23, 2011 6:09 pm UTC

Crush Nightless:
Spoiler:
Lataro wrote:I think it is more likely you are just unhelpful useless town, unfortunately.

Two pages, one line. That is not content, there is nothing of value in what you have posted. I'm going to stop here before I say something unkind...
Oh, Lataro. :P
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Weeks » Mon May 23, 2011 6:30 pm UTC

Aaeriele wrote:Nottingham:

Spoiler:
I really wish people could at least commit a reasonable amount of time to a game that's actively running; taking 10 minutes to write a post when you haven't posted for the past 1-2 days seems like it shouldn't be a problem - and if it is, then really maybe it's time to ask for a replacement. :/
Nottingham, Aaeriele may read:
Spoiler:
Only ten minutes? xD

(<--- can take over two hours for a post)
TaintedDeity wrote:Tainted Deity
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greenlover
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby greenlover » Mon May 23, 2011 6:45 pm UTC

Weeks wrote:
Aaeriele wrote:Nottingham:

Spoiler:
I really wish people could at least commit a reasonable amount of time to a game that's actively running; taking 10 minutes to write a post when you haven't posted for the past 1-2 days seems like it shouldn't be a problem - and if it is, then really maybe it's time to ask for a replacement. :/
Nottingham, Aaeriele may read:
Spoiler:
Only ten minutes? xD

(<--- can take over two hours for a post)

Nottingham, Aaeriele can read:
Spoiler:
Wow, you guys are faaaast :O. My posts normally take about an hour to make. 2-3 hours is not uncommon.

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DaBigCheez
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby DaBigCheez » Mon May 23, 2011 7:03 pm UTC

greenlover wrote:
Weeks wrote:
Aaeriele wrote:Nottingham:

Spoiler:
I really wish people could at least commit a reasonable amount of time to a game that's actively running; taking 10 minutes to write a post when you haven't posted for the past 1-2 days seems like it shouldn't be a problem - and if it is, then really maybe it's time to ask for a replacement. :/
Nottingham, Aaeriele may read:
Spoiler:
Only ten minutes? xD

(<--- can take over two hours for a post)

Nottingham, Aaeriele can read:
Spoiler:
Wow, you guys are faaaast :O. My posts normally take about an hour to make. 2-3 hours is not uncommon.

Nottingham, Aaeriele can read and then we should probably abort the quote-pyramid:
Spoiler:
I think she was more saying "you can take ten minutes to throw something together with some semblance of content", not necessarily "do an in-depth, insightful post with hours of detailed analysis" - it's more "at least briefly comment on what's happened recently" in contrast to the "Hey guys, I'm here, just checkin' in to avoid modkill" *silence for another week*

Obviously, if I'm mistaken, she should correct me :P
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Lataro » Mon May 23, 2011 7:18 pm UTC

DaBigCheez wrote:
greenlover wrote:
Weeks wrote:
Aaeriele wrote:Nottingham:

Spoiler:
I really wish people could at least commit a reasonable amount of time to a game that's actively running; taking 10 minutes to write a post when you haven't posted for the past 1-2 days seems like it shouldn't be a problem - and if it is, then really maybe it's time to ask for a replacement. :/
Nottingham, Aaeriele may read:
Spoiler:
Only ten minutes? xD

(<--- can take over two hours for a post)

Nottingham, Aaeriele can read:
Spoiler:
Wow, you guys are faaaast :O. My posts normally take about an hour to make. 2-3 hours is not uncommon.

Nottingham, Aaeriele can read and then we should probably abort the quote-pyramid:
Spoiler:
I think she was more saying "you can take ten minutes to throw something together with some semblance of content", not necessarily "do an in-depth, insightful post with hours of detailed analysis" - it's more "at least briefly comment on what's happened recently" in contrast to the "Hey guys, I'm here, just checkin' in to avoid modkill" *silence for another week*

Obviously, if I'm mistaken, she should correct me :P


Nottingham, no one playing may read, including Aariele (though they should read it after the game is over):

Spoiler:
It's a bit trickier as scum really. If you post too much, that gives you more time to make a slip up, or to seem over-interested in a resolution to something. As scum, its incredibly difficult to remain consistent and avoid getting caught in something when you have to keep posting. This is the primary reason I argue that extremely long, or open-ended deadlines are VERY pro-town, as it puts the scum in a greater position to reveal themselves. It's easy to keep posting crap as town, you can work with the truth and facts and an honest angle when you analysis people. When you are scum, you have to use "fuzzy math" and bent facts, and try and find ways to make people look scummy without revealing yourself. It is not a simple matter of a quick 10 minute post when you are trying to avoid looking scummy. It takes a lot of thought, time, and consideration of the words you choose, to make a post and avoid having any tells in it.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Lataro
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Lataro » Mon May 23, 2011 7:26 pm UTC

Resistance:

Spoiler:
I hope Mav rejects this team as I have.

If me and Mav approve it, cjdrum can use no confidence to reject it, and it'll effectively out BN and him as confirmed town, since me and Mav wouldn't approve a team for M3 unless it had a chance for a win for us.

Either way, we aren't in a bad position really. If it gets rejected or NC'ed, then Mav can NC BN's team, cj will propose, he'll already be more or less confirmed town, and they'll have no choice but to pass it, that will give me leadership power for M4, and I can assign plot powers from there. Hopefully, we'd get the steal the leader power, and I could give it to Mav, and she could steal lead for M5 and control those plot powers.

Alternatively, we win M3 here, M4 goes to BN, Mav NC's in, provided town doesn't get the steal the lead power, I get to assign M5 plot powers. I'll refuse to put forward a M5 team, forcing a reject, and then, it's just a matter of luck really. That, or I could double bluff, and propose an all resistance M5 team, and try and get them to give it to us that way themselves, that is risky though.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby dotproduct » Mon May 23, 2011 8:13 pm UTC

Wizardry
Spoiler:
dotproduct, in a PM, wrote:
dotproduct wrote:Will the LIFO ordering ever come into play for spells queued for the same trigger?
If yes, will we be able to take back having queued a spell for a trigger (before the trigger happens)?

ElectricHaze, in the reply, wrote:[in this part of the PM, ElectricHaze does indeed answer my question]

If you are worried about a specific interaction (for example if I cast X and opponent casts X and person has Y buff, how is that worked out.) go ahead and ask, otherwise I'm really not sure what to tell you as I believe this has been answered multiple times now.


This is the only PM from the mods addressing my questions, so if it was answered before, then it was answered in the thread.
Am I missing something, or were neither of the questions in the PM I sent actually answered in the thread? :?

(At this point I would prefer that neither be answered in the thread, I'm just wondering if me or EH is right here.)

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Aaeriele » Mon May 23, 2011 8:25 pm UTC

DaBigCheez wrote:Nottingham, Aaeriele can read and then we should probably abort the quote-pyramid:
Spoiler:
I think she was more saying "you can take ten minutes to throw something together with some semblance of content", not necessarily "do an in-depth, insightful post with hours of detailed analysis" - it's more "at least briefly comment on what's happened recently" in contrast to the "Hey guys, I'm here, just checkin' in to avoid modkill" *silence for another week*

Obviously, if I'm mistaken, she should correct me :P


Nottingham

Spoiler:
Yes, that is what I was referring to. I can understand not having time to make extensive, analyze-everyone kinds of posts. But at least commenting on something that has happened in the past 48 hours and your impression of it... it's really annoying to see post after post saying "sorry, not posting today".
Vaniver wrote:Harvard is a hedge fund that runs the most prestigious dating agency in the world, and incidentally employs famous scientists to do research.

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Weeks » Mon May 23, 2011 9:04 pm UTC

Aaeriele wrote:Nottingham

Spoiler:
Yes, that is what I was referring to. I can understand not having time to make extensive, analyze-everyone kinds of posts. But at least commenting on something that has happened in the past 48 hours and your impression of it... it's really annoying to see post after post saying "sorry, not posting today".
Nottingham, Aaeriele may read:
Spoiler:
Oh, yeah. I concur wholeheartedly and share your pain.

What I actually wanted to do was make a point about how slow I am. xD
TaintedDeity wrote:Tainted Deity
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Gopher of Pern » Mon May 23, 2011 9:36 pm UTC

Weeks wrote:
VectorZero wrote:Maff Effect:
Spoiler:
Some may be wondering how jayhsu got lynched. It gets complicated: as a soldier, he takes an extra vote to lynch. But Mav is a quote sniper, who inflicts a penalty of one less vote to lynch. Mpolo has the same ability, but didn't use it. Ultimately: random.org decided.
Maff Effect:
Spoiler:
Quote sniper? Really? xD

Oh, and, obviously Krong is scum, yes. And _infina_ isn't. Neither was jayhsu. D:

So...BN, mpolo, Krong?


Maff Effect:
Spoiler:
Wow. I knew they got sniped, but not that they had the armour. It still came down to random. Awesome.
Look In My Face
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby RoadieRich » Mon May 23, 2011 10:10 pm UTC

Oi, stop talking about SNott outside the game :P
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Dark Loink » Tue May 24, 2011 12:33 am UTC

Wizardry:
Spoiler:
Well, well. I think we can narrow down the "good" alchamists to some of the players who really don't understand wizardry...

Those are:
mpolo
RoadieRich
VectorZero

They self-confirmed newbs, anyways. Since my alc is already sponsible for a shield.

Lets get rid of those do-gooders!
GO TEAM EVIL! :twisted:

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Elvish Pillager » Tue May 24, 2011 12:57 am UTC

Wizardry:
Spoiler:
The sorcerer, Not_A_Raptor, used his ring to cast Magic Missile on dotproduct, used Warp Spell to cast two Magic Missiles on himself, then cast the Arcane Voice at the beginning of D1, leaving plenty of casts to clear the missiles away later. There is only one sorcerer.
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Weeks » Tue May 24, 2011 1:08 am UTC

Wizardry:
Spoiler:
Atheia help me. Hopefully I won't do very bad.
TaintedDeity wrote:Tainted Deity
suffer-cait wrote:One day I'm gun a go visit weeks and discover they're just a computer in a trashcan at an ice cream shop.
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Lataro
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Lataro » Tue May 24, 2011 1:11 am UTC

Wizardry and Scummer (DO NOT READ IF YOU ARE PLAYING IN EITHER, EVEN IF YOU ARE A MOD FOR ONE, YOU WILL REQUIRE A REPLACEMENT IF YOU DO!) [MODS NOT PLAYING IN EITHER SHOULD DEFINITELY READ THIS]:

Spoiler:
So, the AE in Wizardy was from me, I got the scum codeword list as a result. Based on the spoiler a couple pages back about homestar scummer, I very strongly believe JC made this code, and want to claim this code and push that meta reason as for why I am pretty sure he is scum and needs to be lynched.

The problem is, I don't see any way to do this convincingly, without it effecting scummer. I mean, my entire reasoning for suspecting him is how similar it is the the scummer code. I'm not sure if this kind of cross-game conflict has occurred before, but as is, I'm not seeing a way to resolve it without one of the following things occurring:

1. Outting him as scum in scummer.
2. Effectively sitting on it and wasting a power I used in wizardry, thus effectively screwing wizardry in that I am forced to play with one hand tied behind my back.

If scummer wasn't an active game where he was still alive, it'd be no issue at all. People use that kind of meta knowledge against others all the time around here. The only reason this issue is cropping up is because scummer is active.

I'm open to suggestions on how to handle this situation, that avoid messing with either game. I really dislike sitting on such valuable information and being forced not to use it. Comments back on this situation are very much desired.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Dark Loink » Tue May 24, 2011 1:15 am UTC

Scummer/Wizardy(TWO CAN PLAY AT THIS GAME):
Spoiler:
Lataro, and his...
making spoilers I can't read.
Blargh.
I need to talk to ahippo, really. We need a deadline, we'll just butcher some of the factions.
It's unavoidable, I guess. :|

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Adacore » Tue May 24, 2011 1:41 am UTC

Wizardry:
Spoiler:
Wow this game started fast. I didn't even queue for D1-start (not that it really matters, given my spell selections). :shock:

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Not A Raptor » Tue May 24, 2011 2:05 am UTC

Wizardry:
Spoiler:
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

Who is the bastard who wants to continue my day one death streak? If I find you, I'm going to make sure you're killed!
Van wrote:I like simple games.

Like Wizardry.

WARNING: Is acting like NaR.
Kellsbells: NAR is a sillypants
Not_A_Raptor: :p
Kellsbells: That is my expert assessment

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Elvish Pillager » Tue May 24, 2011 2:12 am UTC

Elvish Pillager wrote:Wizardry:
Spoiler:
The sorcerer, Not_A_Raptor, used his ring to cast Magic Missile on dotproduct, used Warp Spell to cast two Magic Missiles on himself, then cast the Arcane Voice at the beginning of D1, leaving plenty of casts to clear the missiles away later. There is only one sorcerer.

Wizardry:
Spoiler:
Update: They're actually Illusory Missiles. NAR expects other people to cast defensive buffs on him, and will simply gain the buffs outright as the "missiles" disappear, with no one the wiser. Also, he is afraid of spoiler readers. :P
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby DaBigCheez » Tue May 24, 2011 2:34 am UTC

Wizardry:
Spoiler:
I will laugh if it turns out NaR got a potion, thought he could protect himself because of said potion...and the one he got was the Disrupt :D

Bonus points if he could have self-cast two Shields, and drank the potion to try and save on his own spell slots!

Disclaimer: The only reason I have to believe someone would have given NaR a potion is for the lulz. Which seems like a good reason to do anything involving NaR in a wizardry game...
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Adacore » Tue May 24, 2011 2:49 am UTC

Wizardry:
Spoiler:
I really hope someone posts their astral echoes results unprompted, so I can check whether they're exactly the same as mine (so we all get the same results) or not without making myself a target.

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Not A Raptor » Tue May 24, 2011 2:57 am UTC

Wizardry:
Spoiler:
Maybe if we put all our heads together...
Van wrote:I like simple games.

Like Wizardry.

WARNING: Is acting like NaR.
Kellsbells: NAR is a sillypants
Not_A_Raptor: :p
Kellsbells: That is my expert assessment

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby _infina_ » Tue May 24, 2011 5:16 am UTC

wizardry
Spoiler:
If someone gets the decoded names list that scum have through Astral Echoes, then the game will have been broken completely. I'm glad I did that first thing, but that is a very dangerous spell. Luckily I have chosen only one anti-town spell, and can be seen as such so long as I don't do something stupid, like use up my quicken d1.
Spoiler:
keozen wrote:It took us exactly 3 pages to turn a discussion of a loved children's book series into smut...
TheGrammarBolshevik wrote:Only if your friends know what rhino dong smells like.

Malo mbwa mwitu

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Kickaflowa » Tue May 24, 2011 11:10 am UTC

Scummer/Wizardry:
Spoiler:
I don't have time to post in games, and don't want players going all, "they poststeed in the spoiler thread, not in here! LYNCH. But I made this for a game a while back, so...
I thought astral echoes was real-time. I assumed that it was cast on someone, you got their current communication, for the day, for the night...and then was proven to be wrong. They get RECENT communication...[/terrified]

OH GOD. OUR CODE FOR NAMES. IF THAT IS REVEALED THE GAME IS ALREADY OVER. We...used those codes in our pms. WE USED THOSE CODES FOR OUR SCUM BUDDIE CODES.
We should've taken from the scummer scum, and then chosen to have different names for each other. Because...this...sucks. So bad. I didn't know they'd get our past-game pms!
Can't say it isn't interesting, for sure. But some people really need a good fireball in the face right about now.

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Elvish Pillager » Tue May 24, 2011 11:28 am UTC

Wizardry:
Spoiler:
Nice going, scum. You didn't split up your messages over multiple PMs, you didn't send lots of red-herring PMs (i.e. messages that would mean as much as any other, but which you know from the context are meaningless), and you didn't even come up with a particularly good code.

I'm rooting for whichever team Van is on, and I'm pretty sure she's not on yours, but I never like to see bad play.

Shit... Now if I'm ever scum in a game with listeners, I'll be caught right away. They'll know I'm scum because the listeners didn't get any useful information. :P

Have I mentioned I hate listeners?
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Aardvarki » Tue May 24, 2011 11:31 am UTC

Wizardry (Players cannot read):
Spoiler:
Number of Scum codenames dropped in Scum PM Chat: All of Them
Number of Scum realnames dropped in Scum PM Chat: One
Number of Scum who will be caught if the name-key is Echoed: All of Them
Number of times Scum dropped Red Herrings in their PM Chat: None
Number of PMs that make up the entirety of the scum code key: Two: one for spells/feats, one for names

As a CompSci Major with great interest in cryptography, this infuriates me.

In a game with known listeners (where every member of town could be one), why on earth do you use an absolute key? Past that, why do you drop each other's names in damn near every single post? If the key assigns every player to a unique codename, and the key is contained within a single post, losing that single post ruins the entire scum team. The smart thing to do would have been not to use each other's names at all. However, if you are going to use a code, and going to use each other's names, at least do it correctly.

The correct way to build a code (when you know you might be listened in on) is to use information only you know to create the key. For instance, if you're a 3-man scum team (of Aardvarki, ElectricHaze, and Sungura) and you use the codenames "Alpha" "Beta" and "Gamma", don't assign: "Aardvarki = Alpha", "ElectricHaze = Beta", "Sungura = Gamma". Instead, use "The first one of us in the players list = Alpha", "The second one of us in the players list = Beta", "The third one of us in the players list = Gamma". That way, even if the key is Echoed, the town would still need to know the three names of the scum players in order to figure out who is who.

Then, on top of that, you could use already encoded information to generate additional codes: "The role that Alpha has will be called Tiger". "The role that Beta has will be called Shark". "The role that Gamma has will be called Rabbit". At this point, I could freely drop all of our names and our roles and even with knowledge of the key, no one in town would be able to glean any real information.

Another, even more simple way to do the code is have everyone create their own codenames. Since AE specifically says it does not give you the sender's name, if every player's first post was "Hi. I'm (codename). My role is (code for role).", getting access to any one of these codes would not hurt the scum in any way.

As it stands, the scum team is an inch away from getting destroyed completely. To be honest, I really don't think it would be that game-breaking if they were... But it would sure teach them a lesson. Unfortunately, I think it would take one or two more AEs than the town has available before they made it to the key. Regardless, I think scum has realized the error of their ways!
-Aa
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Elvish Pillager » Tue May 24, 2011 11:49 am UTC

Wizardry (for Aardvarki):
Spoiler:
(Any extra Town Diviners who can use Transmute?)

I can't say they don't deserve it, but putting the blame entirely on the players is unfair here. This is a Mafia forum, not a cryptography forum. It's already hard to play scum without adding an extra challenge that uses almost none of the same skills. When you create an ability like that, there are basically two possibilities:

1) The scum come up with a good system, and the ability is only slightly useful at best; this is arguably good, since it adds a small amount of interest to the game, but the time the scum spent coming up with the system was probably taken away from the time they could have spent planning their spells and lies, so it creates an additional bias against the scum (since town have no chat to obfuscate) when scum already need more time to plan properly.
2) The scum don't come up with a good system and your game breaks. Congratulations!

On this forum in particular, (2) is much more likely. People here are shitty at coordinating as scum even when they have guaranteed-secure private communication, so you can't expect them to be very good at coordinating when they have an extra obstacle to deal with. You've created a game that doesn't suit your audience.

EDIT: Look, I'm posting lots of spoilers, but not posting in the game! I must be scum! :P
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Mavketl » Tue May 24, 2011 11:55 am UTC

Maff Effect:
Spoiler:
I'm pretty sure we're losing this game. I think Krong is scum, that's never a good sign.

And what's up with _infina_? I feel like he's town, but sooner or later I'm going to have to stop defending him unless he starts acting like town.
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby ForAllOfThis » Tue May 24, 2011 12:42 pm UTC

Maff Effect:

Spoiler:
I bet thats Mav being scum above. I'm not getting my usual townie vibes from her but I can't pin-point why. A lot of what she is saying is along the same thoughts as me which might be throwing me off. Infina has been acting super scummy, and D2 is no different so how Mav hasn't picked this up is beyond me. I may make this point later. Misnomer for third scum? He's hiding something from paragon D1 related, I know it.

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Aardvarki » Tue May 24, 2011 4:52 pm UTC

Wizardry (for EP; players can't read):
Spoiler:
While I certainly understand your points, I can't say I agree with them. In response to the Spell List, I received a great number of questions regarding coding posts with REAL cryptography (e.g. PGP) to avoid Echoes. I didn't honestly expect the scum to implement any true cryptography, but I expected them to take a few minutes to consider the content of their posts. With the exception of the word-cypher, I honestly feel that scum did nothing to mask their communication - and THAT is where my frustration lies. Relying on a weak code, with the entirety of the key that will ruin their entire team located within a single message as their ONLY defense.

On top of that, it didn't even "break" the game. It had the potential to destroy the scum faction due to poor play on their part, yes. But that is a possible issue with any game; the scum team can give themselves up because of poor play in any game. In this game, they knew the potential for their PMs to be read existed, and they did very little to prevent it. Even if they had gotten caught and gutted, I don't feel it would have been "game-breaking". I included strong independent roles in this game for a reason.

It was never necessary for them to use a code to begin with, so long as they made sure not to drop names. They could have gone code-free AND dropped names so long as they dropped enough red herrings to cover up the real names. There were so many possibilities they could have gone with that it simply surprised me they felt so safe with such a weak system. In the end, it won't have a remarkably strong impact on the game - though it puts the town in a better position, knowing the spells they're up against.

I was aware of the possibilities. I still don't feel like the game setup is at fault here. Imagine if, at D1 start, the town instead spread out mass Scrying spells and the scum decided to cast a bunch of AAs afterwards to get themselves caught. I'd be just as surprised at that poor play, that could have had just as strong an impact on the scum, as a result of a handful of town lv1 spells. As you said, this is a Mafia forum. It's not a Dungeons and Dragons forum - if the scum loses because of poor spell management, would you blame the setup or the team? I feel that Spell Management and Secrecy are both important aspects of this game. Sure, the secrecy is highlighted now because this game started with the scum getting their spell selections decoded. The scum team failed to be secretive enough, and suffered because of it.

Regardless, the damage is manageable, and I'm sure the lesson has been learned. The odds of the Key getting Echoed is literally zero - it cannot happen based on the current loadout of the game. I'd be surprised to see even one more Echoes from the town D1. Even if the key DID get Echoed, I feel it only would only slightly reduce the Sorcerer's odds of winning (Though, it would devastate the scum team).
-Aa
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Elvish Pillager » Tue May 24, 2011 5:35 pm UTC

Wizardry (for Aardvarki)
Spoiler:
I had a few responses to specifics of your last spoiler, but they'd probably just be bickering.

My main contention is that the act of adding an extra way for a faction to royally screw up isn't an entlrely benign act. In the case of screwing up by picking a bad spell selection, there is a significant justification: the creation of a spell system that makes the game very interesting. This game was, after all, marketed as a D&D-like Mafia game, and there's no way to have an interesting spell system without making it possible to screw up at it. (Consider Going, Going, Lynched! as a point of reference too - the town managed to royally screw up, by not handling the setup right, but I don't blame the setup there.) Astral Echoes, on the other hand, is an additional trip-wire with much less added interest.

On the other hand, I felt the same kind of frustration about some of my players in HOLY SHIT WTF MAFIA not handling their abilities effectively, and I can hardly argue that all those abilities were necessary to the game. :P
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Entropy » Tue May 24, 2011 11:26 pm UTC

...I see no reason...

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Aaeriele » Tue May 24, 2011 11:33 pm UTC

mm, gunpowder treason, yum
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Not A Raptor » Wed May 25, 2011 7:13 am UTC

Wizardry:
Spoiler:
Somebody is out to get me. I have no idea who, but somebody wants me dead. This is disturbing.
Van wrote:I like simple games.

Like Wizardry.

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Dark Loink » Wed May 25, 2011 10:54 am UTC

I've been rather busy not on a computer, and the people I live with have been very busy on the computer, so I havne't been able to post, or respond to scummer.
This will all be solved tonight.

Also, we still need 3 replacements for scummer. Once again, if you would like to replace into the game, please pm me and ahippo.

Wiz2:
Spoiler:
I would've left all the codes as they are. Then we'd have the best wine ever.
...
I don't have the ring, though. :(

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Mavketl » Wed May 25, 2011 12:45 pm UTC

Maff Effect:
Spoiler:
Fucking hell Minecraftia flashbacks FAOT. Stop being so overzealous, calm down, and THINK THIS THROUGH.
Last edited by Mavketl on Wed May 25, 2011 12:54 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby roband » Wed May 25, 2011 12:49 pm UTC

Mav, fix that ASAP


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