The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

For your simulated organized crime needs.

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DaBigCheez
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby DaBigCheez » Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:08 pm UTC

Portal:
Spoiler:
Re: scum controlling half the vote - mod's made their decision and that's that, so I'll play the hand I've been dealt, but I want to record my philosophical disagreement here.

I always thought the "scum wins when they control half of the vote" rule was really "the game will be called when scum win is inevitable", and controlling half the vote is usually a shorthand for that; scum can force a no-lynch, then pick someone off during the night, and barring town kill powers, scum win is inevitable. At best, town can stall indefinitely with doctors/roleblockers.

However, in a game where you can't no-lynch and a tied vote leads to totalhelldeath (tie for everyone?), it's no longer the case that scum controlling half the vote makes a scum win inevitable; scum has to control an actual majority.

I will grant that this can become infeasible and prone to resentment-inducing miscalculations in games with complicated powers, as determining when victory is truly "inevitable" can get difficult if there's weird interactions.

I will also note that I find it amusing that scum having an easier-to-achieve win condition here will actually make it harder for scum to win. :lol:
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GLaDOS.
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby GLaDOS. » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:47 pm UTC

DaBigCheez wrote:Portal:
Spoiler:
Re: scum controlling half the vote - mod's made their decision and that's that, so I'll play the hand I've been dealt, but I want to record my philosophical disagreement here.

I always thought the "scum wins when they control half of the vote" rule was really "the game will be called when scum win is inevitable", and controlling half the vote is usually a shorthand for that; scum can force a no-lynch, then pick someone off during the night, and barring town kill powers, scum win is inevitable. At best, town can stall indefinitely with doctors/roleblockers.

However, in a game where you can't no-lynch and a tied vote leads to totalhelldeath (tie for everyone?), it's no longer the case that scum controlling half the vote makes a scum win inevitable; scum has to control an actual majority.

I will grant that this can become infeasible and prone to resentment-inducing miscalculations in games with complicated powers, as determining when victory is truly "inevitable" can get difficult if there's weird interactions.

I will also note that I find it amusing that scum having an easier-to-achieve win condition here will actually make it harder for scum to win. :lol:


Portal:
Spoiler:
If it's 2/2 tomorrow it's a guaranteed scum win. Even if town roleblock endlessly, the tie votes will kill them off. The reason I've been warning against the ties is because it always works in scums favor. Deadly Neurtoxin doesn't effect robots. Quite possibly I should have refused to answer the question.

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby ameretrifle » Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:08 am UTC

Scummer:
Spoiler:
I think I'm probably gonna be boring and lazy and just kill Cellery. DEATH TO LURKERS

With "Onion Bubs", some vig/whatever around, and a one-shot kill, I suspect this could get me in trouble either way. But screw it, let's live dangerously!

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby VectorZero » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:51 am UTC

DaBigCheez wrote:Portal:
Spoiler:
Re: scum controlling half the vote - mod's made their decision and that's that, so I'll play the hand I've been dealt, but I want to record my philosophical disagreement here.

I always thought the "scum wins when they control half of the vote" rule was really "the game will be called when scum win is inevitable", and controlling half the vote is usually a shorthand for that; scum can force a no-lynch, then pick someone off during the night, and barring town kill powers, scum win is inevitable. At best, town can stall indefinitely with doctors/roleblockers.

However, in a game where you can't no-lynch and a tied vote leads to totalhelldeath (tie for everyone?), it's no longer the case that scum controlling half the vote makes a scum win inevitable; scum has to control an actual majority.

I will grant that this can become infeasible and prone to resentment-inducing miscalculations in games with complicated powers, as determining when victory is truly "inevitable" can get difficult if there's weird interactions.

I will also note that I find it amusing that scum having an easier-to-achieve win condition here will actually make it harder for scum to win. :lol:
Spoiler:
You'll notice that became an issue in Maff Effect.
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Adacore » Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:48 am UTC

Portal:
Spoiler:
Theoretical scenario where town doesn't lose:

Town + SK lynch one scum member; 2-1-1.
Town use portal device thing to prevent scum kill, SK kills scum; 2-1-0
Town lynch SK.

That's the only way, I think. It relies on the SK's cooperation when he knows he'll lose if town can guess his identity. But this might not be the SK's best shot at a win, the other option is:

Scum + SK lynch one town member; 1-1-2.
Town use portal device thing to prevent scum kill, SK kills scum; 1-1-1
Town + SK lynch scum; 1-1-0
Town use portal device thing to prevent SK kill; 1-1-0
Neurotoxin on tied vote, SK wins.

Basically option 1 the SK loses (town win) if town know his identity, which they do. Option 2 the SK is relying on a successul scum lynch D4, a coin-toss roleblock from town to stop the scumkill, for the SK to hit scum, and for a successful scum lynch D5 (if any of those fall out wrong, scum win). If the SK is confident he can convince town to mislynch on 2-1-0 then he should side with the town; if not, he should side with scum.

I may be misunderstanding some of the rules, of course, which might completley invalidate the above.
Last edited by Adacore on Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:49 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Gopher of Pern » Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:48 am UTC

I'm getting married this weekend, so I will have little time to post. Should be back on Sunday/Monday.
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby ameretrifle » Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:56 am UTC

Congrats!! :D:D

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Aaeriele » Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:59 pm UTC

Adacore wrote:Portal:
Spoiler:
Theoretical scenario where town doesn't lose:

Town + SK lynch one scum member; 2-1-1.
Town use portal device thing to prevent scum kill, SK kills scum; 2-1-0
Town lynch SK.

That's the only way, I think. It relies on the SK's cooperation when he knows he'll lose if town can guess his identity. But this might not be the SK's best shot at a win, the other option is:

Scum + SK lynch one town member; 1-1-2.
Town use portal device thing to prevent scum kill, SK kills scum; 1-1-1
Town + SK lynch scum; 1-1-0
Town use portal device thing to prevent SK kill; 1-1-0
Neurotoxin on tied vote, SK wins.

Basically option 1 the SK loses (town win) if town know his identity, which they do. Option 2 the SK is relying on a successul scum lynch D4, a coin-toss roleblock from town to stop the scumkill, for the SK to hit scum, and for a successful scum lynch D5 (if any of those fall out wrong, scum win). If the SK is confident he can convince town to mislynch on 2-1-0 then he should side with the town; if not, he should side with scum.

I may be misunderstanding some of the rules, of course, which might completley invalidate the above.


Spoiler:
Town + SK lynch scum; 1-1-0
Town use portal device thing to prevent SK kill; 1-1-0
Neurotoxin on tied vote, SK wins.


Don't think that would work, since after the first line, all scum would be dead, and thus town would win instantly?
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby existential_elevator » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:16 pm UTC

Aaeriele wrote:
Adacore wrote:Portal:
Spoiler:
Theoretical scenario where town doesn't lose:

Town + SK lynch one scum member; 2-1-1.
Town use portal device thing to prevent scum kill, SK kills scum; 2-1-0
Town lynch SK.

That's the only way, I think. It relies on the SK's cooperation when he knows he'll lose if town can guess his identity. But this might not be the SK's best shot at a win, the other option is:

Scum + SK lynch one town member; 1-1-2.
Town use portal device thing to prevent scum kill, SK kills scum; 1-1-1
Town + SK lynch scum; 1-1-0
Town use portal device thing to prevent SK kill; 1-1-0
Neurotoxin on tied vote, SK wins.

Basically option 1 the SK loses (town win) if town know his identity, which they do. Option 2 the SK is relying on a successul scum lynch D4, a coin-toss roleblock from town to stop the scumkill, for the SK to hit scum, and for a successful scum lynch D5 (if any of those fall out wrong, scum win). If the SK is confident he can convince town to mislynch on 2-1-0 then he should side with the town; if not, he should side with scum.

I may be misunderstanding some of the rules, of course, which might completley invalidate the above.


Spoiler:
Town + SK lynch scum; 1-1-0
Town use portal device thing to prevent SK kill; 1-1-0
Neurotoxin on tied vote, SK wins.


Don't think that would work, since after the first line, all scum would be dead, and thus town would win instantly?

Spoiler:
SK counts as a faction with a separate win condition. Town can't win unless both the SK and the Mafia are eliminated. I'm guessing the SK has the usual "last man standing" win condition.

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Ibarra » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:30 pm UTC

Portal:
Spoiler:
Either one of roband and me is going to get roleblocked.
So basically both me and roband have to target town else it's a sure lose for either one of us.
Town knows that a) roband is SK and that b) I'm scum. If either of us target each other, it's a sure loss for either one of us.
Ergo, we should both lynch town and have the townie as the Kingmaker instead.
Or alternatively, we both lynch town for a half-win.
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby DaBigCheez » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:32 pm UTC

Portal:
Spoiler:
Well, now I can stop hemming and hawing over whether to reveal my "possible town tie" strategy (as I don't think it benefits scum) - that is, town doesn't roleblock *anyone* tonight, and hopes SK goes for scum+scum goes for town. Heck, if scum tries to counterattack the SK, it's a town win, whether it fails or not. And if it was *known* that no roleblock was going out, the SK would have an incentive to hit scum - as if they both targeted different townies, scum would win.

Got back from my shower two minutes after the hammer; I wanted to accept roband's offer of cake to see what it did. I'm about 80% sure the answer is "nothing", since it was a result of an Ibarra-imposed posting restriction, but meh :P

Also, once mod officially confirms my death, I finally get to read the spoilers you guys have been taunting me with! \o/

Still not sure whether I agree with Ibarra's plan, but we'll see how things work out. Cake for all!
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby DaBigCheez » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:16 pm UTC

Lydhampstead:
Spoiler:
Probably risky to post that as a power role; however, I think even if I do die, the potential gains from it for the tracker/watcher even if I go down may make it worth it.
existential_elevator wrote:It's like a jigsaw puzzle of Hitler pissing on Mother Theresa. No individual piece is offensive, but together...

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby DaBigCheez » Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:09 pm UTC

Portal:
Spoiler:
Okay, officially dead now. Before I start reading back through, I want to say three things:
1) I'm growing increasingly suspicious that joshz/BoomFrog was potentially a vig (or even the SK, though that's less likely by far), and roband actually was innocent. In which case, GG town.
2) Well, you lynched me. Congratulations. Was it worth it? I guess we'll see D5. :>
3) Enjoy the day-start flavor. ^_^

EDIT AFTER READING: Nope, was right about roband. I suppose "deadly neurotoxin on tie" is a valid way of resolving the situation :>

And Adacore - I don't think your second scenario there works. If a townie OR sk was lynched today, it'd go to 2 scum/2 non-scum, which would cause an immediate scum win (I think? If the deadly neurotoxin doesn't affect roband, then a town lynch would go to 0-1-2, then 0-1-1 that night, leading to SK win because we can't kill him of...maybe? IDK.

And Ibarra - fair enough, you had a strategy, though I'm not sure you're going to be able to convince people you're not scum. Frankly, I think the best (and most hilarious) course of action might be for everyone to claim their true roles and let town explicitly kingmaker...now it's just a question of whether EH realizes that *not roleblocking at all* has much more fascinating consequences...

Though really, for the "don't roleblock at all" to work, the best course of action would have been to put that out there, say "okay, not gonna roleblock" to lure SK into hitting scum (while scum hits town because they have to), then roleblock scum so the SK hands them the game. *THAT* was the only real viable town win strat - but it required a lot of wine, which wasn't properly placed before day end.

Furthermore, I'm still amused about last night. EH's logic failed it, but wound up coincidentally correct...aw man, does that mean if we'd targeted joshz/EH last night, we would have won right then when roband hit e_e? :( Or did roband just no-kill last night?

FURTHER EDIT: If I'd been thinking about it, I would have considered roband's most likely target - I assumed he'd want to hit scum, and thus that it didn't matter which townie we chose if he wasn't roleblocked, but I didn't actually do out the math.

Ah, how different this game would have been if I'd woken up 5 minutes later that day...since it sounds like I could have convinced EH to lynch joshz. Instead, I outed myself, cleared joshz's name, and in the process implicated Ibarra by process of elimination, all in one swell foop, with that joshz vote-swap. If I'd just left it where it was, we'd prob. be winning right now.

Oh well, that's early-morning snap decision-making for you :P
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Azrael001 » Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:25 pm UTC

Lydhampstead:
Spoiler:
Cheez your clever plan has earned you a death mark. If I'm right then you were looking for a way of displaying your own results, implying that you've got some sort of power role. If I am right, I'm going to feel clever tomorrow.
23111

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Lataro » Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:07 pm UTC

Portal:

Spoiler:
BoomFrog is my hero, that is the most awesome move to make. Glad he got on to make it before being hammered.

Also, yay roband, for getting the much coveted SK win! If your move was done purposefully in order to get BF to vote Ibarra, then even more kudos to ya, cuz that was a nice play.
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby cjdrum » Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:10 pm UTC

Portal:
Spoiler:
Did BoomFrog just take away any and all hope of me ever winning as scum?

Wait, it comes down to roband. Although, he does kinda have it in for me at the moment (See:Terminator, Portal), so...

DAMMIT BOOMFROG!

(or he could take his vote off now when he realizes it wasn't Ibarra's fault?)
:shock:

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Elvish Pillager » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:50 pm UTC

Signups for my latest game, Death to the Conspiracy, are now open! (Well, tentatively. If Krong and Chandani can run their game, I'll pull it.)

In this game, the scum start the game with a majority, and know each other, but they have no nightkill and no communication, and every townie is a vigilante. The scum's main weapon is the lynch, but they have to tread carefully if they want to control the lynch without tipping their hand(s) too much.

Excited yet? :wink:
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby BoomFrog » Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:59 am UTC

Sounds awesome but, ummm, what happens when town says, "OKAY everyone, nightkill the person next on the player list." Then in the morning the living players all know who didn't have a nightkill....?
Lataro wrote:BoomFrog is my hero, that is the most awesome move to make.
Thanks :D Too bad my logic was wrong and I'd lost no matter what anyway. Still :twisted:
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby cjdrum » Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:30 am UTC

Designer Mafia Power Choices

Active Powers
Informative:
Spoiler:
  • Alignment Cop (40p)
    Player is told Target's alignment
  • Role Cop (25p)
    Player is told a random power Target possesses or has possessed
  • Epic Role Cop (50p)
    Player is told every power Target possesses or has possessed
  • Gunsmith (15p)
    Player is told whether Target "owns" a gun
  • Blacksmith (15p)
    Player is told whether Target "owns" a knife
  • Tracker (30p)
    Player is told who, if anyone, Target targeted that night
  • Watcher (30p)
    Player is told who, if anyone, targeted Target that night
  • Power Tracker (40p)
    Player is told what, if any, actions were performed by Target that night
  • Power Watcher (40p)
    Player is told what, if any, actions were performed on Target that night
  • Thief (15p)
    Player steals a random item that Target "owns"

Protective:
Spoiler:
  • Doctor (30p)
    Target is safe from a single kill for that night
  • White Mage (70p)
    Target is safe from a single kill for two consecutive nights (one per night)
  • Paranoid Doctor (20p)
    Target has a 50% chance of being protected from a kill that night, and a 50% chance of being killed
  • Bodyguard (25p)
    Target is safe from a single kill for that night. If Target [i]is targeted for a kill, Player dies instead[/i]
  • Epic Bodyguard (60p)
    Target is safe from all kills that night, and any attempted killers die instead
  • Poison Doctor (30p)
    Stops Target from being poisoned and/or from dying from poison

Killing:
Spoiler:
  • Vigilante (50p)
    Kills Target
  • Poisoner (40p)
    Kills Target the following night
  • Arsonist (45p)
    Primes a target to be lit. On any day, may PM the mod to instantly kill all previously primed players.

Manipulative:
Spoiler:
  • Roleblocker (25p)
    Stops Target from performing their action that night
  • Jailkeeper (35p)
    Stops Target from performing their action and prevents them from being killed that night
  • Alien (30p)
    Stops Target from performing their action and prevents all actions on them
  • Prostitute (20p)
    Stops Target from performing their action that night. Any experiences with Cops will kill Player
  • Bus Driver (40p)
    Causes any actions targeting Target1 to affect Target2, and vice versa
  • Vote Redirector (75p)
    Forces Target1's vote onto Target2 for the following day - this is not reflected in any vote counts
  • Mason Recruiter (60p)
    Causes Player, Target and all previous Targets to become a Mason group - can include anti-town players
  • Love Potion Maker (40p)
    Causes Player and Target to become Lovers
  • Matchmaker (70p)
    Causes Target1 and Target2 to become Lovers
  • Resurrector (100p)
    Causes Target (dead) to come back to life, and Player to die
  • Epic Resurrector (150p)
    Causes Target (dead) to come back to life
  • Reflector (40p)
    Actions performed by Target on Player are reflected back onto Target
  • Epic Reflector (60p)
    Actions performed by Target are reflected back onto Target
  • Deflector (50p)
    Actions performed by Target1 on Player are deflected onto Target2
  • Epic Deflector (75p)
    Actions performed on Player are deflected onto Target
  • Commuter (65p)
    Any actions targeting Player that night will fail
  • Hologrammer (60p)
    Causes Trackers' and Watchers' results to indicate that Target1 targeted Target2 that night



Passive Abilities
Informative:
Spoiler:
  • Hacker (80p)
    Player is told how many Town players were voting for the lynched player at either hammer or deadline
  • Creepy Stalker (25p)
    Player is told who, if anyone, a predetermined player targeted each night

Protective:
Spoiler:
  • Horcrux (40p)
    Random predetermined player is not able to be killed in any way while Player is alive

Killing:
Spoiler:
  • Paranoid Gun Owner (75p)
    Kills anybody who targets Player, allowing their action to go through
  • Extremely Paranoid Gun Owner (85p)
    Kills anybody who targets Player, not allowing their action to go through
  • Vengeful Kill (40p)
    Kills Target. Activates on Player death

Manipulative:
Spoiler:
  • Lightning Rod (15p)
    Causes all actions to target Player
  • Nexus (85p)
    Causes all actions targeting Player to target random players instead
  • Player Enabler (50p)
    When Player dies, another known (random) player is unable to perform any actions
  • Category Enabler (75p)
    When Player dies, all actions within a given (player-specified) category are unable to be performed
  • Player Disabler (60p)
    While Player is alive, another known (random) player is unable to perform any actions
  • Category Disabler (90p)
    While Player is alive, all actions within a given (player-specified) category are unable to be performed
  • Beloved Princess (30p)
    When Player dies, the next day phase is skipped, causing two nights in a row
  • Lynch Immunity (75p)
    The first attempted lynch on Player fails
  • Kill Immunity (80p)
    The first attempted night kill on Player fails
  • Passive Reflector (50p)
    [I]All actions attempted on Player are redirected to the original user




MODIFIERS!
Spoiler:
  • Odd-Night (÷2)
    Specified action is only available on odd-numbered Nights
  • Even-Night (÷2)
    Specified action is only available on even-numbered Nights
  • One-Shot (÷4)
    Specified action is only able to be used once in the game
  • Two-Shot (÷3)
    Specified action is only able to be used twice in the game
  • Three-Shot (÷2)
    Specified action is only able to be used thrice in the game
  • Unblockable (x1.5)
    Specified action cannot be roleblocked or protected against
  • Untrackable (x1.3)
    Specified action will not be revealed to Watchers or Trackers
  • Public (x1.2)
    Specified Informative action's results are revealed in thread
  • Double-Usage (x2.25)
    Specified non-Killing action may be used twice per Night
  • Triple-Usage (x5)
    Specified non-Killing action may be used thrice per Night
  • Day-Use (x1.5)
    Specified action is used during the Day, rather than the Night. However, still only one action can be used per Day/Night cycle
  • Epic Day-Use (x2.25)
    [i]Specified action is used during the Day, rather than the Night. This does not count as a Night action, so two powers could be used in the same cycle




If you sign up for Designer Mafia, you could have your choice of one or more of these powers. That's right: If you've always wanted to be a Paranoid Gun Owner and Lightning Rod, now you (probably) can!


Points given per amount of players:
8 players: Each player receives 75 Power Points
9 players: Each player receives 90 Power Points
10 players: Each player receives 100 Power Points
11 players: Each player receives 120 Power Points
12 players: Each player receives 150 Power Points
:shock:

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Ibarra
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Ibarra » Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:45 am UTC

Designer Mafia:
Spoiler:
What if there are two lightningrods? Which has preference?
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Elvish Pillager » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:35 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:Sounds awesome but, ummm, what happens when town says, "OKAY everyone, nightkill the person next on the player list." Then in the morning the living players all know who didn't have a nightkill....?

Then the town loses because the power roles are designed to make that NOT work.
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Elvish Pillager » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:55 pm UTC

cjdrum: Are the town allowed to discuss powers before choosing them? Are you allowed to apply more than one Modifier to the same power? Are you allowed to take the same power twice?
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby cjdrum » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:02 pm UTC

Yes, yes and... I guess so?

After receiving roles, players will have 96 hours to discuss/choose powers.
:shock:

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Elvish Pillager » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:30 pm UTC

So... the scum can all take three One-Shot Odd-Night Unblockable Epic Day Usage Vigilante abilities (which cost 21.09375 points each) and kill three townies each ten minutes into day 1?

And... there are LOTS of ambiguous power interactions there. How are you going to resolve that? Make a detailed table of what order powers resolve in and how redirection works, which would be complicated, or decide how things work on-the-fly, which would be bastardly?
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby existential_elevator » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:46 pm UTC

...clearly public hacker is the way to go

I am interested in this game, but I can't choose between that and the other one that's up right now. I can probably only reasonably commit to one.

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby jayhsu » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:47 pm UTC

Seems a bit like wizardry.
-Jay

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Ibarra » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:53 pm UTC

Actually I think the beauty of the set-up is having everyone decide by themselves - not forcing others into the role they want.
Also I think we should bar scum from addition kills?
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Adacore » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:28 am UTC

Elvish Pillager wrote:Signups for my latest game, Death to the Conspiracy, are now open! (Well, tentatively. If Krong and Chandani can run their game, I'll pull it.)

In this game, the scum start the game with a majority, and know each other, but they have no nightkill and no communication, and every townie is a vigilante. The scum's main weapon is the lynch, but they have to tread carefully if they want to control the lynch without tipping their hand(s) too much.

Excited yet? :wink:

This game can be reframed as:

In this game the town start the game knowing the identity of other townies, and there are a number of serial killers who can win together.

It certainly sounds interesting, though.

jayhsu wrote:Seems a bit like wizardry.

Yeah, I actually thought it might be interesting to try something similar (a points-based power buying system), but simpler than Wizardry, not even more complicated. :wink:

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Lataro » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:18 am UTC

GGL? :twisted:
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Adacore » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:18 am UTC

The Homestar Scummer thread is now 3 months old, and over half the players are still alive. That's less than one death per week. :shock:

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby roband » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:00 am UTC

Lataro wrote:GGL? :twisted:


I enjoyed that game.

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby roband » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:37 am UTC

Adacore wrote:The Homestar Scummer thread is now 3 months old, and over half the players are still alive. That's less than one death per week. :shock:


I foresee my Large game starting at some point around Christmas ;)

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Elvish Pillager » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:26 am UTC

Adacore wrote:
Elvish Pillager wrote:Signups for my latest game, Death to the Conspiracy, are now open! (Well, tentatively. If Krong and Chandani can run their game, I'll pull it.)

In this game, the scum start the game with a majority, and know each other, but they have no nightkill and no communication, and every townie is a vigilante. The scum's main weapon is the lynch, but they have to tread carefully if they want to control the lynch without tipping their hand(s) too much.

Excited yet? :wink:

This game can be reframed as:

In this game the town start the game knowing the identity of other townies, and there are a number of serial killers who can win together.

It certainly sounds interesting, though.

To my mind, "town" is the group that can be honest and "scum" is the group that's trying to hide and deceive, so the majority is still scum in this situation.
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Lorenz » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:22 pm UTC

Elvish Pillager wrote:Signups for my latest game, Death to the Conspiracy, are now open! (Well, tentatively. If Krong and Chandani can run their game, I'll pull it.)

In this game, the scum start the game with a majority, and know each other, but they have no nightkill and no communication, and every townie is a vigilante. The scum's main weapon is the lynch, but they have to tread carefully if they want to control the lynch without tipping their hand(s) too much.

Excited yet? :wink:



How would the voting work? I could see townies just not voting and night-killing everyone who voted?

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby roband » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:26 pm UTC

Just got around to reading the spoilers for Portal :D

thanks again FAOT, I enjoyed that a lot

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Elvish Pillager » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:37 pm UTC

Lorenz wrote:How would the voting work? I could see townies just not voting and night-killing everyone who voted?

I have a system in place. No Lynch is not permitted, ties result in a random lynch favoring town, and players are not permitted to refer to cryptography, the initial player list order, or any other external source of randomness. The town are supposed to actually vote for who they think is scum; if anyone comes up with another way to circumvent that, I'll ban that way too (but I think I've covered all the easy ways.)
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Lorenz » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:40 pm UTC

Ok, sounds fun. If I'm killed of in another game I'll definitely join.

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby existential_elevator » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:45 pm UTC

still don't know whether to pick DtTC or Designer.

Convince me!

I'm leaning toward DtTC because I can think of strategies for it.

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Adacore » Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:29 pm UTC

Elvish Pillager wrote:To my mind, "town" is the group that can be honest and "scum" is the group that's trying to hide and deceive, so the majority is still scum in this situation.

Yeah, that makes sense. I was just making the point that in lots of nonconventional setups it becomes unclear which side is the 'town' team - Dune got kinda close to this, in some ways. I've seen some setups where the team described in the flavour as 'town' actually has more similarities to a scum team than the side described as 'scum'. I think your distinction is the correct one, because 'town' should basically be described as the alignment that is logically going to be public-claimed by all players in the thread based on the game setup.

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Elvish Pillager » Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:37 pm UTC

existential_elevator, pick DttC! It's fun because you either get to be scum, and practice your scum shenanigans in a friendly environment, or you get to be a frickin' vigilante!

Also because the Designer ability set is so ridiculous that it'll be even MORE swingy than DttC is. :twisted: DttC only has about a 0.1% chance of ending on N1, but I'd give Designer about a 30% chance of ending on (or before) N1. :P
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