The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

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Adacore
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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Adacore » Sat May 23, 2009 11:46 am UTC

I will say that the queue at the moment is a touch long. I signed up for Megacrazymayhem on the 2nd April, it was queued on the 16th. I figure that will start (optimistically) at the beginning of June, so that's 2 months of waiting. My Watchmanfia signup was on the 10th March - it took a long time to be handed over from signups to the queue (queued 24th April), and I'm co-modding that now, but even so I can see that being at least 3 months waiting, with 2 months in the queue. I have absolutely no way of knowing what I'll be doing for work in 2-3 months time - there's every chance they'll send me off to work on site (16 hour days with very limited net access) or on a 3-week business trip to South Korea. I guess there's not much we can do about it though, and it probably won't actually be a massive problem for me.

On the subject of music mafia pyp, I'm so in and I have a role all lined up (assuming it's bands; if it's individual artists that's harder) :wink:

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Gojoe » Sat May 23, 2009 12:03 pm UTC

I know that it is long time in the queue, but making more games able to be active at once would make the lurking un bearable. And making less games active at once is also a bit silly as I do not think it will shorting lurking enough to speed up the queue. I think people are clogging the queues. Too many people are trying to play mod. I think the best option is to force games (not already in the queue)to try their game in IRC. This would weed out the not so keen mods. And make games that are actually not very practical stop in their tracks. The only issue with this is closed set up games. In the case of closed set up games, you should have to get approval from a special person (like me, amy, kells, etc)

Does this sound fair to everyone else?
michaelandjimi wrote:Oh Mr Gojoe
I won't make fun of your mojo.
Though in this fora I serenade you
I really only do it to aid you.
*Various positive comments on your masculinity
That continue on into infinity*

Feeble accompanying guitar.

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Brooklynxman » Sat May 23, 2009 12:15 pm UTC

Gojoe wrote:I know that it is long time in the queue, but making more games able to be active at once would make the lurking un bearable. And making less games active at once is also a bit silly as I do not think it will shorting lurking enough to speed up the queue. I think people are clogging the queues. Too many people are trying to play mod. I think the best option is to force games (not already in the queue)to try their game in IRC. This would weed out the not so keen mods. And make games that are actually not very practical stop in their tracks. The only issue with this is closed set up games. In the case of closed set up games, you should have to get approval from a special person (like me, amy, kells, etc)

Does this sound fair to everyone else?


By weed out the not so keen mods you mean weed them down to like the 3 people able to get people to play in irc, right?
We figure out what all this means, then do something large and violent

The thing about changing the world...once you do it the world's all different.

I'm Angel. I beat the bad guys.

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Gojoe » Sat May 23, 2009 12:18 pm UTC

Brooklynxman wrote:
Gojoe wrote:I know that it is long time in the queue, but making more games able to be active at once would make the lurking un bearable. And making less games active at once is also a bit silly as I do not think it will shorting lurking enough to speed up the queue. I think people are clogging the queues. Too many people are trying to play mod. I think the best option is to force games (not already in the queue)to try their game in IRC. This would weed out the not so keen mods. And make games that are actually not very practical stop in their tracks. The only issue with this is closed set up games. In the case of closed set up games, you should have to get approval from a special person (like me, amy, kells, etc)

Does this sound fair to everyone else?


By weed out the not so keen mods you mean weed them down to like the 3 people able to get people to play in irc, right?
Well if they can not get enough people to play they can get a vet to vouch for them.
michaelandjimi wrote:Oh Mr Gojoe
I won't make fun of your mojo.
Though in this fora I serenade you
I really only do it to aid you.
*Various positive comments on your masculinity
That continue on into infinity*

Feeble accompanying guitar.

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Brooklynxman » Sat May 23, 2009 12:35 pm UTC

Gojoe wrote:
Brooklynxman wrote:
Gojoe wrote:I know that it is long time in the queue, but making more games able to be active at once would make the lurking un bearable. And making less games active at once is also a bit silly as I do not think it will shorting lurking enough to speed up the queue. I think people are clogging the queues. Too many people are trying to play mod. I think the best option is to force games (not already in the queue)to try their game in IRC. This would weed out the not so keen mods. And make games that are actually not very practical stop in their tracks. The only issue with this is closed set up games. In the case of closed set up games, you should have to get approval from a special person (like me, amy, kells, etc)

Does this sound fair to everyone else?


By weed out the not so keen mods you mean weed them down to like the 3 people able to get people to play in irc, right?
Well if they can not get enough people to play they can get a vet to vouch for them.


fair point but its usually tough to get a game going in irc thats what I meant.
We figure out what all this means, then do something large and violent

The thing about changing the world...once you do it the world's all different.

I'm Angel. I beat the bad guys.

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Adacore » Sat May 23, 2009 12:45 pm UTC

If/when I mod a fullsize game I would want an experienced co-mod to help out. I'm not sure I like the idea of a mod-clique, however, but I guess I don't have any substantive objections. I think using minis to test out mods is better than using IRC - I'm rarely able to be on IRC at times when enough people are around to play purely due to timezone issues as we don't have many euros. I'd say minimum requirement to run a full game should be running a mini (maybe two) and co-modding with one of the more experienced mods at least once (which would probably, if you were any good, get you the backing of an established mod when you went to mod your own game, I guess).

Personally I think I'd make a better mod than a player, but I'm trying to take it slow and get more experience of playing, perhaps mod a few minis, comod a couple of games, before I start looking at modding a full game.

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Gojoe » Sat May 23, 2009 12:49 pm UTC

Yes, I knew that is what you meant, but if enough people keep coming on trying to make a game, enough people will be there to play a game.

Anyway, people should try to start a game in IRC. If it fails, they should then get someone to vouch their idea.

Also I think that people always forget about co-mods, we need to make them more important somehow.
michaelandjimi wrote:Oh Mr Gojoe
I won't make fun of your mojo.
Though in this fora I serenade you
I really only do it to aid you.
*Various positive comments on your masculinity
That continue on into infinity*

Feeble accompanying guitar.

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby moody7277 » Sat May 23, 2009 1:00 pm UTC

Elements:

Spoiler:
What kind of compund is gallium ununseptinide? Tune in real soon to find out.

EDIT: I guess we'll never know.
Last edited by moody7277 on Sat May 23, 2009 8:38 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby b.i.o » Sat May 23, 2009 1:04 pm UTC

I think modding a mini would help people get the experience of modding a lot more than modding a game in IRC. Modding a mini requires you to keep track of things and keep things under control for a lot longer. (Although that said, I've never modded an IRC game.) I don't think it'd be a bad idea at all to have people need to have modded a mini or a few IRC games before they modded a large one. It'll be a better experience for all involved when the mods are more organized and prepared.

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Gojoe » Sat May 23, 2009 1:17 pm UTC

Actually, I think you have a point. I think you have to climb the modding ladder. Start at irc, then to mini, then to big.
michaelandjimi wrote:Oh Mr Gojoe
I won't make fun of your mojo.
Though in this fora I serenade you
I really only do it to aid you.
*Various positive comments on your masculinity
That continue on into infinity*

Feeble accompanying guitar.

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby dedalus » Sat May 23, 2009 1:23 pm UTC

I think one of the main problems is kind of the fact that there's absolutely nothing required to mod except spare time and a good idea; there's plenty of good ideas hanging around (hell... just pick a theme), and well... guess where people with spare time go for something to do... a forum :O. As such, it's a case of 'mod if you wanna', and people seem to want to. After modding my first game I can see why; it's a bit of work but it's pretty fun, and you get to laugh as people push around all their ideas while you know whats really going on. Touch megalomaniacal, but hey, that's never a bad thing. And for every game there's 10-30 people playing, but only 1 mod. Doesn't quite work.

Idea that just sprang to mind really, dont know how well it will work (maybe this is the alcohol), but anyway. Basically,if before going into the queue for signup, a game goes into a 'game queue'. Then, 1-2 games are let onto the signup thread as... I'm going to be presumptious and appoint Gojoe the master and commander of this, so as Gojoe sees fit. This hopefully means we can limit the queue of games that are signed up for but not started, which in turn means that games are started soon after they are signed up for, which in turn means that games are started up for whilst they're fresh in the minds of people, and people dont sign up for a game only to find that by the time said game starts they're overseas/tied up with work/otherwise busy (this had better make sense when i'm coherent). It also means that games can possibly get checked for the idea or balance (this becomes a bit hard, as people checking balance etc may be excluded from being able to join up... dont know how this would work). But yeah... it may help a bit.

Also, there not being deadlines, or having deadlines far ahead is NOT a good excuse for holding back votes and dragging out days, days do not have to last until the deadline.

Agreed entirely, but unfortunately people seem to act like this, possibly on the assumption that they need to get as much information from each day to win a game??. Once again, we can't control the players unless we make a draft and some comprehensive rules and turn this into a very newbie-unfriendly place. However, we can make rules as to the way games are modded. And personally I think having a deadline to give a game a timeframe, then being flexible about that deadline, is much much better then letting anything happen and enforcing a deadline when the debate has slowed to a trickle.

Regarding Music Mafia pyp, I'd really love to mod it. It seems to be a good idea, and people want in. But with the massive queue as it is, I'm feeling very pensive about throwing my lot onto it. Being fairly new myself, I definitely cant see any argument why I should be modding a game, and with a 3-4 month waiting list then yeah... this is the problem we're now getting. Frankly, I'm cutting any hopes for Insanity!. Twas a gI oood idea; but they all are, and people were less enthused about mine.

As for forcing mods to try games in IRC, I don't see how we can get a game that requires 30 people to work in an IRC channel we rarely hit 10 in. There's plenty of other ways to check balance of a game, and player enthusiasm can be seen on the signup screen, so this seems an unnecessary rigamarole. However, I think modding a mini is definitely a good start before anyone tries to mod a full size game. And yes, every full-size game needs a co-mod. And, one would hope that co-mod has a full set of roles and mechanics.

Tl;dr: It would be cool to make a second queue games must enter before going to signup. And once again I'm talking about mandatory deadlines for each game.
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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Brooklynxman » Sat May 23, 2009 1:38 pm UTC

And perhaps a time limit to get the number of sign-ups required?
We figure out what all this means, then do something large and violent

The thing about changing the world...once you do it the world's all different.

I'm Angel. I beat the bad guys.

Spoiler:
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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Gojoe » Sat May 23, 2009 1:53 pm UTC

Actually... That makes sense D.
So if I get you right, there is a queue for games getting into sign ups. This is so that when people signup to something, it it much closer to actually being the time for the game to start.

This would mean a few things on various queues. The current game queue would only ever have x amount of games waiting. Also the signup thread OP would have to be accurate (which would be easy as the other threads would I would be in control of all threads).

Also just a quick run down of what a potential mod will do (this is more to help me think things through)

Mod gauges idea in Gojoe thread
Mod puts game type in signup queue
Once it is it's turn to gather sign-ups the game goes into the active sign-ups thread
once it has enough players game goes into the actual queue
Once it is the turn to begin, mod creates thread etc

The purpose of this is to cut down on the time it takes between player sign-up to game start.
The downside another thread is stickied.
Also might make new players a bit more scared. All these new rules

New players can be put to ease by explaining that half the threads are only for mods.

Ninja: Yes a time limit for signups is clear. If you do not gain a player in 24 hours, you are kicked off the queue.
michaelandjimi wrote:Oh Mr Gojoe
I won't make fun of your mojo.
Though in this fora I serenade you
I really only do it to aid you.
*Various positive comments on your masculinity
That continue on into infinity*

Feeble accompanying guitar.

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby crucialityfactor » Sat May 23, 2009 3:02 pm UTC

Azrael001 wrote:If when we do a pyp music thing I have both song and artist picked depending on whether we use one or the other. I'll just put an Acronym here to claim it: TPLC.

Good luck figuring that one out.


you put it out of order...

Tupac California Love

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Gojoe » Sat May 23, 2009 3:20 pm UTC

crucialityfactor wrote:
Azrael001 wrote:If when we do a pyp music thing I have both song and artist picked depending on whether we use one or the other. I'll just put an Acronym here to claim it: TPLC.

Good luck figuring that one out.


you put it out of order...

Tupac California Love
That would be TPCL not TPLC
michaelandjimi wrote:Oh Mr Gojoe
I won't make fun of your mojo.
Though in this fora I serenade you
I really only do it to aid you.
*Various positive comments on your masculinity
That continue on into infinity*

Feeble accompanying guitar.

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Brooklynxman » Sat May 23, 2009 3:26 pm UTC

Gojoe wrote:
crucialityfactor wrote:
Azrael001 wrote:If when we do a pyp music thing I have both song and artist picked depending on whether we use one or the other. I'll just put an Acronym here to claim it: TPLC.

Good luck figuring that one out.


you put it out of order...

Tupac California Love
That would be TPCL not TPLC


*ahem emphasis added ahem*
We figure out what all this means, then do something large and violent

The thing about changing the world...once you do it the world's all different.

I'm Angel. I beat the bad guys.

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Gojoe » Sat May 23, 2009 3:30 pm UTC

Oh whoops, it is 03:30am cut me some slack.
michaelandjimi wrote:Oh Mr Gojoe
I won't make fun of your mojo.
Though in this fora I serenade you
I really only do it to aid you.
*Various positive comments on your masculinity
That continue on into infinity*

Feeble accompanying guitar.

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby crucialityfactor » Sat May 23, 2009 3:31 pm UTC

I don't get why all these people want to mod. I hate it...it sucks...players are whiny little babies for the most part.

Also mods can only do too much to keep a game moving...you can set deadlines or modkill and inactive player, but ultimately it's the players that have to get off their asses an post.

You don't have to play in every game, in fact, why would you want to anyways? There's only so much time you can spend reading a thread and posting analysis etc etc. Sure, some ideas are cool but you don't have to play all of them.

I think we need to go back to talking about restricting how many games people can be in at once. Even though I cringe at telling people what they can and cannot do...if games are slowing down and suffering because of people spreading themselves too thin then I think we need to make a change there.

Hell, it might even result in reducing the number of active games as well, I really doubt we have enough players for 5 games at once anyways.

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby dedalus » Sat May 23, 2009 3:40 pm UTC

Yeah... if I'm understanding what you're saying then that's the idea I had in mind. Bit unsure as what you mean by 'signup queue' so I'll go like this:
- Mod gauges idea in Gojoe thread
- Mod puts idea in game queue; by this time idea should be in a solid idea. If it's a closed game then it might need to be run by a veteran to see whether it would work or not, however the veteran cannot thus play in the game.... Whilst in the queue the game idea can be checked, and possibly rejected if unsuitable/unoriginal/unbalanced.
- When game gets to the front of the game queue and reaches its turn, it goes into the signups thread. Signups for the game need to go very quickly, and limits should be set here such that if a game doesnt get a good rate of signing up, it gets rejected. Hopefully between this and the previous measure we can trim bad games from the good.
- After fulfilling player requirements, game starts, etc.

Also, what I would say is that the 'reaches its turn' bit is variable and comes down to the discretion of the main mods (yeah we don't have mods as per sec in this channel but it's fairly well known who does and doesnt run the place). So for example in the case of PB still running while amy's game starts, this works because the admins decide 'hey there isnt that many active games'. And in saying this, I'd like to suggest giving some mods the power to end games prematurely for the sake of getting new games running and stopping dead/abandoned games.

@ CF (jeez post while i'm writing): I think having a limit of games players can be in at any one time is another very good idea. That being said, some players are more active then others...
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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby crucialityfactor » Sat May 23, 2009 3:45 pm UTC

And in saying this, I'd like to suggest giving some mods the power to end games prematurely for the sake of getting new games running and stopping dead/abandoned games.


But then we're getting into that whole discussion about euthanasia and whether it's moral to end a games life if it is truly in pain and basically dead anyways...

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Master_Rahl22 » Sat May 23, 2009 3:47 pm UTC

At the site I was at for Mafia previously, players were limited to a maximum of 2 normal games and 1 mini at a time. In addition, a person had to have played in at least 3 games before they could mod, which cut down on the ideas that wouldn't work and glut of players starting new games. I think both of those rules would do well here.
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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Gojoe » Sat May 23, 2009 3:48 pm UTC

crucialityfactor wrote:I don't get why all these people want to mod. I hate it...it sucks...players are whiny little babies for the most part.

Also mods can only do too much to keep a game moving...you can set deadlines or modkill and inactive player, but ultimately it's the players that have to get off their asses an post.

You don't have to play in every game, in fact, why would you want to anyways? There's only so much time you can spend reading a thread and posting analysis etc etc. Sure, some ideas are cool but you don't have to play all of them.

I think we need to go back to talking about restricting how many games people can be in at once. Even though I cringe at telling people what they can and cannot do...if games are slowing down and suffering because of people spreading themselves too thin then I think we need to make a change there.

Hell, it might even result in reducing the number of active games as well, I really doubt we have enough players for 5 games at once anyways.
I agree with this, to the most part. The main thing is the telling people what to do. I mean, I personally can play more than one game. I can prob play about 3. Any more and I will make mistakes. In saying that, I think Amy can play a zillion games, and still be awesome in all of them. So it is a bit on people's personal limits. So yes games are starting to stagnant (this happened before I might add, that is why we made the queue(which I think has been working up until now)). But setting a number of the amount of games you can be in, should be up to the player knowing their own limits. But I think part of the issue is the influx of people trying to make new games. We REALLY need to do something about all these games clogging up our queue. And I think this second queue may work... The only thing is it... is a second queue. That seems a bit crazy. It is just too complex the more I think of it. There must be a simpler way. (besides deterring potential mods). It is nearly 4am, so maybe I am just not thinking clearly. But I can just feel that there is a much more elegant solution to this problem.

@ d (jeez post while i'm writing). The thing you wrote up was the same, I just called it a sign up queue, and didnt talk about asking if the game will work. The asking a vet if a game would work, should be done quickly. Also Amy's game jumped the queue because it was a special game. It was an invitational. NOTE: DO NOT JUST MAKE INVITATIONALS TO JUMP QUEUES, ONLY A VET CAN MAKE AN INVITATIONAL THAT JUMPS THE QUEUE.
michaelandjimi wrote:Oh Mr Gojoe
I won't make fun of your mojo.
Though in this fora I serenade you
I really only do it to aid you.
*Various positive comments on your masculinity
That continue on into infinity*

Feeble accompanying guitar.

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Gojoe » Sat May 23, 2009 3:49 pm UTC

damn ninja's...
michaelandjimi wrote:Oh Mr Gojoe
I won't make fun of your mojo.
Though in this fora I serenade you
I really only do it to aid you.
*Various positive comments on your masculinity
That continue on into infinity*

Feeble accompanying guitar.

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Sungura » Sat May 23, 2009 4:47 pm UTC

Okay I just read through all that. Some thoughts on some things I saw...(at least, I'd like to think people care about what I have to say, if not, ignore me :P )

- It did come up twice actually in the past couple months about seeing if Gojoe could get "real" mod powers here on the forum, but it was determined that it wasn't needed, and I think Lanicita does a great job, and Jesse did well before her. So yeah, I think we're all for Gojoe but it's not needed so I doubt it will happen unless something changes.

- Time limits on games - this was determined a while ago to be up to the mod's discression. In my elemental game I have it set at maximum 7 days for a day and 4 days for a night. Other times I've not done limits, or loose limits. It's all up to the mod of the game. I don't think rules for this needs to be set, it is game-specific in my opinion.

- The Queue - started for the purpose so people are limited in how many games they play at once. If people cannot be smart enough to space out which games they sign up for, their problem, not the forum mod/game mod/whoever problem. Unfortunatly, it comes down to the game mod to determine what to do about inactives. Usually, I just modkill them unless I can find a replacement, but I don't like doing replacements because folks playing styles are different and it's hard to gauge from one to the next. So I tend to just modkill. Again, this is the responsibility of the game mod as far as how they want to deal with inactives. It's not anyone's job to police others and how many games they can play. Know your limits, stick with them. (And thanks Gojoe for "In saying that, I think Amy can play a zillion games, and still be awesome in all of them." :D )

- The IRC is not the forum. They coincide, for sure, but they are not the same. And yeah the folks you see with admin/op/hop there are the folks who have been around here for a long time, but it's certainly not inclusive. Example, Silknor is back but he hasn't even registered his nick again yet so I can't even give him voice, but he's a beloved experienced mod if you look back on the old games.

- I agree we are having too many minis starting up. We shouldn't need a mini queue, but perhaps a rule no more than 2 or so at once, and minis are meant to be around 10 players. I've seen a few recently that seem to have more like 15 or so. That's more like a full game. I think perhaps that could be part of the issue is that the minis aren't always usually true minis.

- Also as for mods...yes...a lot of people lately seem to just play a game or so and then start modding...and new game mods are great and I hate the idea of "policing" who can mod a game...but I do wish there was some sort of way of reaching "modding level". The idea out there of do on in the IRC, do a mini, then full game is I think a good stepwise idea. Also, perhaps it could be something about new mods can pull on an experienced mod for these steps to help. Maybe harder to do in the irc, but for the mini and full game. Also, there is a "how to mod a game" thread that MaJ made that is very nice. If you want to mod, you should really read that.
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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Azrael001 » Sat May 23, 2009 6:21 pm UTC

While we don't want to become the Mafiascum forums, there is one thing that they do that I think we could try and steal. The game mods all have mod powers. If we decide on a core Mod group, they could be given Mod powers over this part of the fora. In order for any game to run a core mod must at least have agreed to be a co-mod.

With or without the Modly powers I think this idea had merit, but we need a way to give comods more power. I think that we need to enforce some sort of "send it to all mods or die" rule. Or maybe change the title from co-mod to just Mod. All mods must be notified or an action doesn't count.

That is all.
23111

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Gojoe » Sat May 23, 2009 6:25 pm UTC

Azrael001 wrote:While we don't want to become the Mafiascum forums, there is one thing that they do that I think we could try and steal. The game mods all have mod powers. If we decide on a core Mod group, they could be given Mod powers over this part of the fora. In order for any game to run a core mod must at least have agreed to be a co-mod.

With or without the Modly powers I think this idea had merit, but we need a way to give comods more power. I think that we need to enforce some sort of "send it to all mods or die" rule. Or maybe change the title from co-mod to just Mod. All mods must be notified or an action doesn't count.

That is all.
Well a couple of things. First off, the idea of someone actually having power has come up a few times. Does not look like it is going to happen. Also a historical note. The word co-mod on these forums started with me and Rodan, we did not call one person a mod, and one a co-mod. We were both co-mods. The only difference was I had the OP.
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Though in this fora I serenade you
I really only do it to aid you.
*Various positive comments on your masculinity
That continue on into infinity*

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Adacore » Sat May 23, 2009 6:45 pm UTC

I like the master-apprentice version of the mod-comod relationship as it seems the best way to me to train/vet/approve new mods before they're allowed a game of their own, but it is vital that the co-mod is actually fully involved in this scenario. He/she needs to discuss the game concept and all the roles, plus any special rules with the main mod before the game starts then every PM about the game, however insignificant, must be copied to him/her.

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Gojoe » Sat May 23, 2009 6:56 pm UTC

Ok people I am off to sleep.

Adacor that is a a good idea. Letting the new person be co-mod.
michaelandjimi wrote:Oh Mr Gojoe
I won't make fun of your mojo.
Though in this fora I serenade you
I really only do it to aid you.
*Various positive comments on your masculinity
That continue on into infinity*

Feeble accompanying guitar.

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby MasterOfAll » Sat May 23, 2009 7:10 pm UTC

Sungura wrote:Okay I just read through all that. Some thoughts on some things I saw...(at least, I'd like to think people care about what I have to say, if not, ignore me :P )


Okay, I DIDN'T just read through all that. Did anything important actually get written down? Someone want to do a tl;dr?
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ameretrifle wrote:MoA is an astute logician and is, in fact, directly related to Sherlock Holmes on his mother's side.
(ditto for this one)

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby crucialityfactor » Sat May 23, 2009 7:18 pm UTC

The thing that I like about our community is that we DON'T have one or a few people in charge of everything. All the decisions we make are created by dialogs like this with everyone. We don't need a few people policing what goes on in here. When we do make changes (queue, sign-up thread) it's done as a consensus so we're not imposing outrageous rules that everyone can't get behind.

The only reason we would need actual forum-mod powers is that we don't have people who don't follow the rules we have put into place. If people were just starting up games all over the place or exploiting alts or re-posting people's spoilers without tags we would need someone with forum-mod power.

But we don't have anyone like that.

And yes, the minis are getting too large player wise. It should be the same size as an IRC game, which is usually 5-10 people. We used to have normal games that were only 12-16 people and now the minis are getting into that range.

I would say that games that grow larger than the low 20s are probably too big, not for a mod to handle but just because they go on for so long that they tend to die.

What if we imposed a player cap on games and then had set number of those games that could go on at once?

For example:

Mini = Less than 12 players (2-3 games at a time)

Normal = 12-17 Players (1-2 at a time)

Large = 18-24 Players (1-2 at a time)

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby kellsbells » Sat May 23, 2009 7:29 pm UTC

We've been having some discussion of this, actually. Right now it's hesitantly divided into Mini and Regular, with Minis being 5-11ish, and Regular being 12-20 (those numbers are estimates, not official). There's hardly ever a reason to play a game with more than 20 people, and in fact, back in the old days, we had a rule against that. Gojoe has lots more reasoning of why this rule should come back, which I'm sure he'll explain when he wakes up.

For now, though, the idea is that at any given time we have at most 3 Minis and 2 Regular games running simultaneously. This will (hopefully) stop all the buildup and get people to actually focus on the games they're playing rather than signing up for every new thing that pops up and neglecting the games still running. I personally think it's a great idea.
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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby crucialityfactor » Sat May 23, 2009 7:34 pm UTC

If we do that, we should probably wipe the queue/signups.

My reasoning is that all those games will basically be on hold until ALL the current games end. By then a lot of people will probably forget about the games and a good amount of those people might be gone altogether.

If people really want that game to happen they can have new signups for it later.

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Entropy » Sat May 23, 2009 7:38 pm UTC

I'd be willing to accept that. I'm going to have trouble figuring out which four roles to cut from my setup to get to 20 though... there is not a lot of redundancy in what I put together.

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Adacore » Sat May 23, 2009 7:42 pm UTC

I personally think we've got enough players to sustain more than 2 'regular' games, probably 3. Just doing a quick tally, here's a list of players who have (I think) played multiple games and are currently active: moa, une, korora, azrael, bio, brook, amy, mollusk, entropy, martin, maj, kells, mega, bulvox, cycoden, vieto, tokol, mister k, MR22, AS, moody, lanicita, JarOJam, kipper, peevo, CVsoul, NaR, Frogman, amt, vectorzero, OOTD and me. 32 in total. Then there are a good 10 or so newer players, so limiting it to 20 player games and 2 games at once means some potential players won't be able to play at all, which is highly undesirable imo.

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Vieto » Sat May 23, 2009 7:43 pm UTC

I disagree with blocking games above 24 players. I, a new mafia-mod, had a fairly exciting 25 player game (Monty Python) that kept most of the players active and posting. (not to mention I'm in the process of making a crazy themed game requiring 24 or 27 players, though I could modify it for 21, hesitantly)

crucialityfactor wrote:Mini = Less than 12 players (2-3 games at a time)

Normal = 12-17 Players (1-2 at a time)

Large = 18-24 Players (1-2 at a time)


I would suggest something closer to:

S - <=12 players
N - 12-20
L - 20-30

anything above 30... we just don't have a player base.

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby kellsbells » Sat May 23, 2009 7:43 pm UTC

We had discussed making allowances for games over 20. Essentially: ask nicely and see if anyone minds. But in general, stick to under 20.
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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Sungura » Sat May 23, 2009 9:25 pm UTC

Looking at history of our games, if there are over 25 for sure in a game they tend to break down, a lot. I would be all for this 20 player cap returned, and if someone just HAD to play and somehow missed signups, give or take a bit.

MoA - if you don't care to read my prior post I honestly don't care to tl;dr it. I actually tried really hard to keep it short and bullet point it and make the first sentence or two a "topic sentence".
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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Vieto » Sat May 23, 2009 10:29 pm UTC

dedalus wrote:Music @ Vieto:
Spoiler:
Oh i know what you mean ¡This cheese is burning me!, and it seems to have landed you in a spot of trouble.
Yes... you definitely will go out with a bang. Seems our musicians will all be decimated by the end of d2.

also for music
Spoiler:
although it would have helped if you made it clearer that I was townie, as opposed to independant.
you decided looking after your own life might be important as well. + You win if all killing factions are eliminated. = sounds independant, not town, as everyone else is claiming.

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby MasterOfAll » Sat May 23, 2009 10:54 pm UTC

Sungura wrote:MoA - if you don't care to read my prior post I honestly don't care to tl;dr it. I actually tried really hard to keep it short and bullet point it and make the first sentence or two a "topic sentence".


Amy, I didn't mean just your post. I meant the entire PAGE of posts that spawned overnight. I was just wondering if I missed anything important by skipping it all.

And, I have now read that post of yours (although I still haven't read the posts by other people), and for the most part, I agree with what you said. So, yeah, feel free to ignore me.
Kipper wrote:SERIOUSLY. Listen to MoA, he knows his stuff. . . High five MoA!
(not funny, but true)
ameretrifle wrote:MoA is an astute logician and is, in fact, directly related to Sherlock Holmes on his mother's side.
(ditto for this one)

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Re: Forum-Mafia Discussion/Recruitment/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Adacore » Sun May 24, 2009 12:15 am UTC

There's a fairly logical explanation for why games last a long time if deadlines aren't set/enforced and why people wait for the deadline rather than hammering if they are. Basically it boils down to the fact that delaying a lynch is a pro-town move. Once a lynch target is decided, the only difference between the end of day N and the start of day N+1 is that the night-talking factions and factions with NKs have got to talk and kill. These factions are generally anti-town. The most fundamental effect of this is that potential contributors from day N get NKed and are unable to contribute on day N+1. Since waiting for these people to post what they were hypothetically going to say if they hadn't been NKed is beneficial to the town, delaying the lynch is pro-town. If lynch target consensus hasn't been reached then it's even more pro-town to delay the lynch. So my theory is that games slow down and die because it's theoretically pro-town for them to do so.


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