The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

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SPACKlick
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby SPACKlick » Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:18 pm UTC

ONUW Ultimate Werewolf
Spoiler:
Having a mild panic attack that wam is a tanner that played me. Bodyguard is a really safe scum fake claim but it's also a good tanner fake claim if you think scum are gaining control of the vote...Well, if wam has played that blinder. Fair play to him.

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Diemo
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Diemo » Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:25 pm UTC

Oh hey I remember that game. I did plan for another actually helpful post before the deadline, but never got around to it.

I don't think my play helped town there.
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Madge » Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:30 am UTC

One Night Ultimate Werewolf

Spoiler:
I am a little annoyed my alignment seems to have been changed, but at the same time, it was a huge mindfuck and pretty fun as a player, so eh, I would rather have fun and lose than be bored and win.
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby SPACKlick » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:02 pm UTC

Best Idea:
Spoiler:
I feel bad for SirGabriel. I'd hate to be in his position. I nearly wrote him an apology for it but it sounded really creepy and scummy in context. I hope he chooses right and fast, I'm really nervous. I'm amazed freezeblade wasn't the day 1 lynch because of how lurky he is but it seems that's not how it works round here. This decision would be easier with more talky players. I'm really just letting my stream of consciousness flow here because I know what it's like to be battered with excess information when you're trying to make a decision but I'm nervous.

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wam
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby wam » Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:48 pm UTC

One night ultimate werewold

Spoiler:
So I am town and the bodygaurd so drastic gambit time

Voting for myslef, which will stop me dying... this then will hopefully allow madge;s vote on spacklick to determine it.

Assuming I have got my head around the game properly which is probably wrong.
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby ConMan » Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:35 am UTC

One Night
Spoiler:
If wam is the Tanner, then bloody well played. This gambit falls over if I start showing any reasonable doubt about his scumminess.
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby quintopia » Sat Jun 13, 2015 4:45 am UTC

One Night Post-mortem (spoilered only for length-feel free to read):
Spoiler:
Some villagers may have been surprised that the wolf team turned out to be SPACKlick, bessie, and ConMan, but the evidence was there to be seen by whomever could manage to suss it out. (Yeah, yeah, hindsight is 20/20, there's always multiple interpretations, etc. etc. blah blah...I'm not saying you actually COULD have figured it out, just trying to illustrate how the game looked from my perspective.)

Remember when SPACK said:

SPACKlick wrote:Bodyguard is an easy claim for either town or werewolf and is a null tell but doesn't hurt to reveal if you are. Troublemaker is the lynchpin for me at the moment.


(i.e., "Hey scumbuddies, you should think of claiming one of these roles.")

Then immediately later:

SPACKlick wrote:Bodyguard is an absolute null tell on average.


(i.e. "NO SRSLY GAIZ CLAIM BODYGUARD ASAP.")

The next post that bessie made, she claimed bodyguard. Message received!

Soon, wam has counter-claimed bodyguard, leaving the only roles that anyone would claim as Troublemaker and Apprentice Seer. ConMan, whom he now had near certainty was still his scumbuddy, had yet to claim, so SPACK said this:

SPACKlick wrote:Only ConMan left to claim, If they're apprentice seer their intel better be useful or I'd be mighty suspicious. Once Con Man has claimed we can work out who to vote for.


(i.e. "HEY BUD, DON'T CLAIM APPRENTICE SEER. TROUBLEMAKER IS THE WAY TO GO.")

Later on, SPACK admits to being Mystic Wolf (in a situation where he absolutely had to do so, but when combined with the above information and Madge's poor claim of the same, it's clear he's not lying anymore), which was the invitation to town to re-evaluate everything he said in this light. Especially knowing that any advice scum gives on how to play is loaded, and, as the one giving the most advice, everyone's thoughts were surely influenced to a small degree. This is why I was surprised that I never saw a post completely analyzing everything SPACK ever said once he had claimed MW. (I don't know that such an analysis would have come to the right conclusions, but the question, "IS THERE A SPACK/CONMAN TEAM?" was clearly posed on several occasions, and such an analysis seems the best way to answer it.)

So here, having seen wam slip up on the bodyguard claim (most likely due to not reading up about the role he had peeked at in the night and simultaneously believing that he actually had become a bodyguard—he admitted to not understanding the game in the same post), SPACK took a gamble and accused wam as his former scumbuddy. It's a gamble because wam's poor play could be equally indicative of a Tanner trying to look scummy. But, there was really no one else he could out except perhaps New User. wam was simultaneously the easier mislynch and the one who most likely had the best chance of getting bessie lynched, and so was the obvious choice. He gambled on a 2:1 bet and won.

Madge wrote:Now I'm really, truly worried that wam is the tanner and that Spacklick sold him out because he counterclaimed bessie.


You hit the nail on the head, Madge. SPACK was as worried as you.

But after making that gamble, he still had to wait a solid three days to see whether his bet would pay off, and given that he was far more sure about Madge NOT being a tanner than wam, he tried to see if he could move the vote the other way...

SPACKlick wrote:Does anyone have any line of reasoning that says we're better to vote Madge than Wam? My gut leans that way, SDK seems to think it rules out something although I'm not sure what. Conman leans that way.


..but it didn't work. Good thing he got lucky.


MISTAKES:
-I think SPACK's revealing the breadcrumb was a mistake. He ruled himself out as tanner. He had no idea that the real troublemaker wouldn't be claiming soon when he did so, claiming to have switched someone else entirely. Thus, he should have left open the option of being the tanner until after the troublemaker claim had been made.

-Let's not even talk about wam. I would have said he shouldn't have lied about being bodyguard, but I don't even think he was lying anymore. His confusion over his role could have been my fault. He believes that he is primarily responsible here...
wam wrote:I am so going to lose this for town, which sucks given it's due to my lack of attention.

...but no player is ever solely responsible for the outcome of a team game.

-Madge should not have claimed Mystic Wolf. As SPACKlick pointed out early on, late troublemaker claims are quite suspect, and as we can see, she clearly heavily doubted ConMan's claim. Whether she believed she'd become a werewolf or not, her best play was to accuse ConMan of lying immediately, and gone searching for evidence of the possibility (such as SPACK's prodding him not to claim Apprentice Seer above). If she were still Seer, then ConMan is a wolf and her accusation is good. If she were now MW, then ConMan is most likely Troublemaker and her accusation is good. Claiming Mystic Wolf, there's no person she could have outed as her scumbuddy without risking a loss in case she hadn't been swapped.

-An even better play for Madge would have been to have claimed Seer in her first post, as she did, but not actually said what option she chose. Later, after the swap, she could say something like "I looked at the two center cards, and Troublemaker was one of them. ConMan is lying." Heck, she probably even SHOULD have taken that option. The center card peek gets the village slightly more information anyway. Plus, it's something that the MW CANNOT do, so it could be used to distinguish herself from MW if need be.

-I think New User claimed too early. Wolves can't do too much funny business by claiming the Insomniac except "look townie", so leaving the Insomniac unclaimed leaves open more possibilities for the wolves to screw up: 1) by claiming it, thereby outing themselves to the real insomniac, 2) by claiming they switched the insomniac's role, which in the case of an unchanged insomniac, also outs them as wolf. Saying that you were once the Insomniac just lets the wolf team know not to say they messed with you. Refusing to reveal whether your role changed doesn't hurt the wolf team at all. Obviously, it didn't matter in this game when Insomniac claimed since ConMan's best play for a Troublemaker switch was SPACK and Madge anyway (or possibly SPACK and a confirmed villager like SDK), but there's no way New User could have known at that point in the game.


GOOD PLAY:
I hesitate to call bessie and ConMan's play flawless, but their tactics were spot on, and they never made a flagrant mistake. I think SDK, Angua, and Vytron had spot-on analyses given the information they had at the time, and IMO they all revealed what information they had in just the right way to establish a "most townie cabal" early on. None of them could have improved the village's chances by doing anything other than exactly what they did. New User's analyses were also accurate by my estimation. But I have to give the most credit to SPACKlick for reasons I think I've already made clear. His prior experience with the game shows through quite clearly in his strategy and coaching here. Jolly good show all!

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Vytron » Sat Jun 13, 2015 6:12 am UTC

One night Werewolf
Spoiler:
I think that Town had no chance whatsoever to have won the game. Even if someone like, say, USN, was in the game and told us "are you crazy guys? ConMan and Spack are lying scum and it's obvious!" we'd have gone and lost it, because, like SDK said, the optimal play, given the information that we had, was to either lynch Madge or wam, and both were losing.

One can nitpick scum's plans, but it was as flawlessly an execution as realistically can be done.

quintopia wrote:-Madge should not have claimed Mystic Wolf.


A big problem with the game is that you don't know your own win condition, as it could have changed. So here I'd have done as Madge. You can't talk about what Madge should have done for town to win, because it was impossible for her to know that at the time.

If you know you could be a wolf you have to let open the possibility of having to win, and her actions successfully convinced us to not lynch from her claimed pair, at least. She really had not idea if ConMan was lying, so she couldn't have claimed it, and after Spack's really bold move of claiming wam was his scumbuddy fate was sealed.

I guess their win is even more impressive considering they coordinated on the thread in front of everyone in the open, as opposed to, say, having planned it in advance N0 or in Day chat.

I guess we need more such games where scum isn't allowed to communicate privately.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby quintopia » Sat Jun 13, 2015 1:14 pm UTC

@Vytron
Spoiler:
Vytron wrote:One night Werewolf
I think that Town had no chance whatsoever to have won the game. Even if someone like, say, USN, was in the game and told us "are you crazy guys? ConMan and Spack are lying scum and it's obvious!" we'd have gone and lost it, because, like SDK said, the optimal play, given the information that we had, was to either lynch Madge or wam, and both were losing.

One can nitpick scum's plans, but it was as flawlessly an execution as realistically can be done.

Definitely agree with all this. You guys did what looked best at the time.

Vytron wrote:
quintopia wrote:-Madge should not have claimed Mystic Wolf.


A big problem with the game is that you don't know your own win condition, as it could have changed. So here I'd have done as Madge. You can't talk about what Madge should have done for town to win, because it was impossible for her to know that at the time.

If you know you could be a wolf you have to let open the possibility of having to win, and her actions successfully convinced us to not lynch from her claimed pair, at least. She really had not idea if ConMan was lying, so she couldn't have claimed it, and after Spack's really bold move of claiming wam was his scumbuddy fate was sealed.

I think you misunderstood. I was saying that accusing ConMan straight off was optimal play no matter what team she was on. She knew 100% that either she was Seer and ConMan was a wolf, so they were on opposite teams, or that she was a wolf and ConMan was Troublemaker, so they were on opposite teams. She did successfully avoid getting lynched, yes, but this would have done just as well while shedding a bit more doubt on the wam outing. Obviously I say all this from the benefit of hindsight, so I cannot say that I'd have played it right either. This is why I said I would join a game in a heartbeat if it happened again.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Vytron » Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:18 pm UTC

@quintopia
Spoiler:
Had Madge claimed ConMan was lying (or that she knew he was lying) I'd have seen that as desperate scum (because, she couldn't have known for certain that ConMan was lying from my perspective) and would have tried to convince people to lynch Madge instead of wam.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby quintopia » Sat Jun 13, 2015 9:31 pm UTC

@Vytron
Spoiler:
Fair enough. I wouldn't have said she should claim to know anything anyway (unless she had previously claimed to have seen a center card), but rather to have made a coherent argument based on the things SPACKlick and ConMan said and the general scumminess of a last minute Troublemaker claim. More of a "I think he's lying" than a "I know he's lying." Half-heartedly claiming MW still looked scummier in the end, since she couldn't point to a scum mate.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Vytron » Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:06 am UTC

@quintopia
Spoiler:
Yes.

I'm actually very interested in seeing you play in such a game, I will probably mod one if nobody else steps up, problem is the flavor would be very lacking in comparison with yours.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby quintopia » Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:12 am UTC

The complete rule book is posted on boardgamegeek. Just Google it. You can choose different roles if this one seemed to favor scum too much.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby SPACKlick » Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:37 am UTC

I've already posted sign ups for a next game in the sign ups thread as well as role pms for all the available roles.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby wam » Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:08 pm UTC

I need a replacement to jump in at LYLO in Chaos mafia,
Come join us playing mafia signup here

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby SPACKlick » Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:56 pm UTC

I haven't read any spoilers and have been following along if you're happy for a zombie replacement wam.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Vytron » Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:28 am UTC

I'm also available in case you're not happy with a zombie replacement.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby SPACKlick » Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:36 am UTC

:lol: :D My hard copy of One Night Ultimate Werewolf Daybreak just arrived :D :lol:. I am very happy. I need to gather 21 of my friends to the same place with a large table (Maybe an additional friend to move cards about) for insane mafia...

One Night Sign ups will still be open for another week in the sign ups thread for anyone interested.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Madge » Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:02 pm UTC

Occult Mafia

Spoiler:
Just want to thank the mafia team for killing me, the current day looks like a real stressful one, raeds-wise, and I'm glad I don't have to be part of it.

Latest post is a townie saying maybe they should look at my reads to see if I was killed to keep me quiet - ha! I doubt that. I think the Spack is Scum theory is a pretty good one.
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby quintopia » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:35 am UTC

SPACKlick wrote::lol: :D My hard copy of One Night Ultimate Werewolf Daybreak just arrived :D :lol:. I am very happy. I need to gather 21 of my friends to the same place with a large table (Maybe an additional friend to move cards about) for insane mafia...

One Night Sign ups will still be open for another week in the sign ups thread for anyone interested.

What you need is a large lazy Susan :p

Also, do you live near me relatively speaking ?

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby SPACKlick » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:37 am UTC

There's a fair bi of ocean between us so not that near, no.

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Dr Ug
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Dr Ug » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:23 am UTC

Why hello there.

I think it's been, well, almost 5 years. How goes mafialand? Any good games going on?

I'm seriously thinking of making a modding return, it seems like the mod queue doesn't really exist anymore? I'm thinking about a themed game, and my history has generally been running fairly large games, but don't have a good feel on how large the player base is atm?

Also, does anyone even remember who I am?
Where did my old signature go? :(

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Carlington » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:49 am UTC

I don't know who you are (but you're in the same timezone as me, which is refreshing! Hello!! Good afternoon! Enjoying the daytime, which it is right now for both of us? Good, me too!) The player base is, as far as I'm aware, quite a bit smaller than it once was. The largest games I see running have maybe a dozen players, and I think much more common are games in the area of 8-10. Sometimes there are minis or turbos which only have 4-6 players, although that's less common (I think I remember some games of dethy recently that were that small). There's not really much of a queue at all anymore, you kinda just throw an idea up here to gauge interest and then throw it in the signup thread when you're ready. There's not enough activity to necessitate a queue, most of the time. That said, if there seems to be a few games running at once, probably just ask here or in the signups thread whether people want you to wait until a game ends.

Welcome back! (Which feels weird to say because I wasn't here when you left but anyway the sentiment remains.)
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby New User » Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:43 am UTC

Yeah, I'd say go ahead and put a game into signups any time. It's far less active than it was a few years ago. We have gotten a few new players recently, so maybe it'll bounce back.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Vytron » Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:21 am UTC

This seems to gather the highest number of players as long as there's enough interest:

-Wait till there's 2 or less games running, or 3 with one in endame.
-Skip the queue and create a new thread where people sign up directly.
-Advertize your game in the Sign Up (for players) thread
-Be patient (i.e. I've seen game getting lots of players after 2 weeks after a slow first week)

Good luck and welcome back!

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Vytron » Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:28 am UTC

Occult
Spoiler:
New User wrote:Vytron: I just clicked on the Countdown Timer link in your last post and it doesn't show the correct time.


:shock:

Whenever I start comodding I get lots of such mistakes. But this one I don't get: the time in parenthesis I've been reporting has been right, and that one comes from my link, so I don't see how it could have been possibly wrong all the time, but it was.

$it_is_a_mystery

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Dr Ug » Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:01 pm UTC

Image

Signups open now.
10-24 players.
Open invitational.
See, and join the return of many players from years past.
Details in the signup thread.
Where did my old signature go? :(

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Azrael001 » Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:09 am UTC

The Hangafia

It's been so long, seeing all of these familiar names popping up is nice. And those that aren't new, but are newer than the time I dropped off the boards is also neat.
23111

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Dr Ug » Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:44 am UTC

Azrael001 wrote:It's been so long, seeing all of these familiar names popping up is nice. And those that aren't new, but are newer than the time I dropped off the boards is also neat.


I'm having very similar feelings. I'm glad so many people have responded to the invitations. :D

18/24 20/24 spaces filled in under 24 hours, so if you're interested better sign up quick. At this rate should be able to start in a few days...
Where did my old signature go? :(

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby MasterOfAll » Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:39 am UTC

Obviously the game hasn't started yet and thus there is no way I can know anything about my role/alignment/etc. but no matter what I end up being I am going to put so little effort into day 1 of this game that the term 'lurking' won't even come close to covering it.

That is all I wanted to say.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Vytron » Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:08 am UTC

Solitary Dusk to Dawn Final Lycanthrope!
Spoiler:
Wow! A Mafia game where Mafia players get to choose who are their scumbuddies? That's very neat!

Apparently Sir chose me*. And I chose Madge because all things being equal I'd rather have her in my team! Sorry Madge if you didn't want to be scum!

*Risky move. What with my really high D1 being lynched rate? But I tend to play better as scum, so there's hope.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Van » Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:32 pm UTC

Hiiii!

A warning before The Hangafia gets started: I am way busier than I was last time I played, failure to post novel-length accusations is not a sign that I am mafia :P

Also, wow. Long time no see. I have popped in to lurk occasionally but didn't realize it had been 3 or 4 years.
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby SPACKlick » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:00 pm UTC

23 players in a little under 25 hours is incredible from what I've seen of the forum. Been a long time since I played a game this big...

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Dr Ug » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:05 pm UTC

SPACKlick wrote:Been a long time since I played a game this big...
I think that goes for all of us, either from absence or small size of games more recently...
Where did my old signature go? :(

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Vytron » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:15 pm UTC

I've never been on a game this big, by a long shot.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby weiyaoli » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:49 pm UTC

Excited to play again, especially since this coincides with my summer off from university so I'll have more free time than when I played before. Gonna be hard to try and get back into mafia with a massive game like this though!
And you thought I was crazy...

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby moody7277 » Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:27 pm UTC

So I was reading through the HP game Dr. Ug linked to, and realized the confusion level would have been higher by a factor of three had I been playing.

*closes eyes and wishes really hard that AMT signs up for Hangmafia*
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Shepherd's Pie?
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Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:56 am UTC
Location: Beacon Alpha

Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby ConMan » Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:18 pm UTC

I'm very excited for this game, not least because there are a huge number of Aussies in this game. It's almost like that "Timezone Mafia" joke we were talking about before.
pollywog wrote:
Wikihow wrote:* Smile a lot! Give a gay girl a knowing "Hey, I'm a lesbian too!" smile.
I want to learn this smile, perfect it, and then go around smiling at lesbians and freaking them out.

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quintopia
Posts: 2906
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 2:53 am UTC
Location: atlanta, ga

Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby quintopia » Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:55 pm UTC

Solitary Dusk to Dawn Final Lycanthrope
Spoiler:
Since I was the revealer, I know that SirGabriel thinks they're a wolf. Time will tell whether they're on my team because I've been wolfed or that I should push for lynch.

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Minestrone
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:21 pm UTC

Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Minestrone » Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:12 am UTC

Solitary Dusk to Dawn Final Lycanthrope:
Spoiler:
Ok so I know quintopia was a revealer when I checked him so if they're still town now then they know who one scum is (either the person they investigated, or if they investigated me, then SirGabriel), but they're clearly worried about having been switched to scum and so don't want to give away that information. I want to know for sure whether they might have been switched to scum first before I out them as revealer so they don't worry about needing to lie.


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