The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

[Adacore]

Oh, I have no doubt you will find a way to make an adversary of me, anyway. ;D If it ever happens.

If signups keep going like this I'm willing to trade modding for a role if it'll help. At this point it wouldn't be much more than a drop in the bucket, though. >_>

At this point I'm considering just shelving the game - it doesn't really look like the demand is there. I'll let it continue in signups for at least another week, and I might re-engineer the game to a smaller player count (but that means I have to cut more roles! NOOOO!), but if it's not at least half-full by the end of next week I might just ditch it.

So yeah, all sign up for Buffy! Right now! I don't care if you have lives, mafia is more important (yay - go me with the hypocrisy)!

My God, you people are all... well, I'm upset and I can't think of a mean word right now, but that's what you are and we're going to the factory!

[mister k]

it seems like people only want to play turbo these days, which makes me sad, as I'm only really playing turbo's to scratch an itch- I find a post a day a bit hard to keep up with. Sadface. Buffy the Vampire Slayer peeps!

[Van]

Wizardry V2:

Spoiler:

If the other players are being half as stupid about this as I am, I feel so bad for Aardvarki and EH. Mostly because I've now changed my spells for N2 3 times now, I think. Here, let me make the most complex simple game ever even harder simpler by changing things constantly! Woo!

On the plus side, this is the first time I've really ever had options at night. And those options involve killing people. It's weird that killing townies as town doesn't bug me, but playing scum does. Just how the hell does that make sense?

Also, I think I will die tonight. If I do, I'm signing up for the replacement list even though that'd make absolutely no sense at all.

[Lataro]

Wizardry V2:

Spoiler:

Sorry Van, looks like you are dead tonight. A mafia has to eat, ya'know?

Since I don't think I've said this here yet, it's worth a go, that wish was mine. Not quite the expected results, but... it did help in some small way, in that no one cast any armor spells due to the day ending so suddenly.

[Brooklynxman]

The Turbo craze makes me sad too. I can post once a day, but it will be a "I'm here" post, as keeping up with the volume daily is the problem for me. Other games where it isn't obligatory for every player I can do it.

*sigh*

[Lataro]

As I've said elsewhere, I think the biggest problem with the non-turbo vs turbo situation is that, at least for me, I like the idea of a game that is forced to keep moving. As has been pointed out, in most situations given an indefinite amount of time, town will almost always push for more discussion and more time. This leads to days lasting a ridiculously long amount of time, in my opinion. Part of why in Scrubs I just said screw it and pushed for my own lynch, was that it was at almost two weeks and still D1. I just lose interest in days that long. This is again seen in Partner's again. It was kinda like that in Chaos as well, I didn't even try and stop the lynch at the end, I just wanted the day to end and didn't care if I was killed as a result.

I really think even non-turbo games need some kinda structure to it to limit the max time for a day or night, however, others aren't as fond of that idea. This is the biggest reason why I don't really want to play non-turbo any more, as I tend to get annoying at the lack of game progress and stop caring about what happens. I really think if mods for non-turbo games sat down at the start and said, No day will last longer than a week, and no night will last longer than two days, it would do a lot for getting people interested in normal games again. It may also just be the case that everyone is too busy this time of year and I am drawing conclusions that are unsupported.


That is just my two cents though, take from it what you will.

[_infina_]

North Pole

Spoiler:

Random guess as to scum, as I almost put in my first post: Sungura, b.i.o, and mister k. When I die, I will show up as vanilla town.

[weiyaoli]

North:

Spoiler:

This addition doctor/role block sounds interesting, seems like a good mechanic. There should have been a role with the hidden win condition of being sent.

EDIT:

Beach:

Spoiler:

I'm going to just decide now and hope for the best. No time right now to decide between brook/ahippo and entropy/amt so I'll go with the pair that has the most votes on. I'll admit now that I don't know who is scum (If it is lataro or Mav I'm screwed) but really no difference at this point)

Also, apologies lataro/aardvarki for not "picking" up on your master plan but seriously at the point that Dr Ug and I considered you were the last scum team 100% with the fullest intention of voting for you at LYLO bar pretty much nothing (Because I don't think I would have believed this thing/mess at LYLO), isn't exactly the pair you most want to go into LYLO with especially if you are town like I am increasingly inclined to believe in.

[Adacore]

With the discussion of Buffy in the sign-ups thread, I've decided to start the game thread - all discussion should be moved there.

Signups for Buffy Mafia should also now be made in thread.

Now, I know you haven't been in the game for a while, mate, but we still do kill people. Sort of our raison d'etre, you know.

[Adacore]

Turbo Vanilla:

Spoiler:

I really can't blame them for that. I would've done the exact same thing. Good luck town, I guess.

[b.i.o]

I really think if mods for non-turbo games sat down at the start and said, No day will last longer than a week, and no night will last longer than two days, it would do a lot for getting people interested in normal games again.

I will be doing (just about) this in my medium. Probably 5-day days and 2-day nights with no posting requirement, although I may adjust it slightly. I agree that this is the best way to handle things. I don't like the waiting and indeterminacy that can happen in larger games.

[b.i.o]

Wizardry v2

Spoiler:

Goddamit. Now I'm even more certain I was right about Lataro. Time to read spoilers.

Was really hoping I'd have had time to post my investigation results though. (I forked a detect evil, got evil on Dr Ug and not on Az.) Town got pretty well screwed up overnight and it's going to need some help.

[Lataro]

Wizard V2:

Spoiler:

So, yeah... I thought Van was gonna go, but instead they decided to kill you b.i.o

Now to go plan ways to be evil.

[Van]

Wizardry V2:

Spoiler:

My fireball! You bastards!

How the hell do I interpret that?

edit: Don't mind me..

1. he was the caster of that Resist Fire during the day
2. he cast Resist Fire at night
3. he used a Resist Fire potion
4. he used Shield that night

1 is the least likely, imo, given that it is only a 1/16 chance (20 - modkills - NAR - myself = 16), though it could point towards him being an alchemist

2 is possible. I could try ruling it out with a Gojoe?

It looks like b.i.o came through and gave me a potion, so I'm going to make some assumptions: alchemists are greedy and self preservationist unless given clear evidence of a pro town target. The scumchemist is dead, which means he has a 3/15 (?) chance of being an alchemist who used a resist fire potion on himself. However, one of the 2x Resist Fire, 1x Shield potions made N1 was scum - they got one spell and one potion. Even ignoring tactical choices, there are 2:1 odds a RF potion was made by scum, and I have modconfirmation a potion made N2 wouldn't be usable N2.

4 does not make sense to me unless he thought he was at high risk. He's an amazingly boring target atm, so that seems unlikely

I am thinking it is most likely 2 or 3, with a slight lean towards 3. 2 would lean towards town power or scum, while 3 would do the same for alchemist or scum

rrrarr.

[b.i.o]

Wizardry v2

Spoiler:

LATARO YOU ASSHOLE. STOP MISREPRESENTING WHAT I SAID. I'VE EXPLICITLY CORRECTED YOU LIKE THREE TIMES.

I don't care if you're doing it on purpose or not. It's fucking annoying.

[Van]

Wizardry V2:

Spoiler:

And I have a Arcane Voice from Krong waiting. Interesting.

scum, or another townie who thought AV was pretty awesome?

I think I am going to hold off on making any posts. A Gojoe will have the most power if it is my first post of the day, e.g. it looks like I just got my results from the mod or whatever. Not sure what I want to do yet. Maybe Krong will slip up and tell me something I can use

edit: weiyaoli post! if you take it at face value, he's probably not aligned with mieulium, but might be with Dr Ug? definitely not conclusive results since he also comments on me being dispelled.

Gah why Am I up this early? stupid phonecall.

[ameretrifle]

Beach:

Spoiler:

I dare any one of you to look me in the eye and tell me you wouldn't have done the same. ;D

I can probably read spoilers now... but I don't dare yet XD

[Sruixan]

North Pole:

Spoiler:

Hello _infina_

[Brooklynxman]

Beach

Spoiler:

wtf?

If Lataro survives the night, it'll be him, but we die if he doesn't. Gorram.

[Name]

Vanilla (Adacore can read)

Spoiler:

I saw that you got lynched. I take blame for that. Sorry. >_<

[mister k]

north pole

Spoiler:

Urgh, not again. I fall over myself on day one so frequently, and I can't even claim to save myself. Sadface

[Not A Raptor]

north pole:

Spoiler:

Yes, I'm bussing you. Yes, it has to happen. I have to hide from _infina_ and Amy long enough to cause them both to die. Then I can play normally.

[weiyaoli]

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

Can I just say:

At this stage I'm itchy about BigNose and Lataro. bio's being killed, however, (and this gets into serious WIFOM territory), could be read as a fairly solid indication that Lataro is not scum. He could still, of course, be a sorc, but they (ought to be) considerably less dangerous to town at this stage, due to the standard SK-logic.

Called it:

It should be relatively easy to WIFOM why we killed bio if we decide to do so; lataro was under some suspicion D1 so a bio kill would easily get a lynch on lataro.

Although many thanks Adacore for making it even easier than expected.

[_infina_]

North Pole

Spoiler:

NaR, are you just following me and amy? That seems rather odd. It is like you are doing the reverse of the frogzombie thing you did day one. It bugs me. b.i.o I am feeling better about, but Dr Ug has taken his place with that attack on NaR after the mister k analysis post. It don't feel right. So now I have four on my list of possible scum: Sungura, mister k, NaR, and Dr Ug. Posted for documentation of FoS thought process. I won't deal with that again.

[Sungura]

North Pole

Spoiler:

Holy shit I wake up again and BAM stuff to read.
Okay here are my thoughts.
NaR, ha ha ha NIIIIIIIIIIIICEEEEEEEE play mr scumbag #2. By acting slightly scummy and pinging my scumdar - but ha I'm getting better and hiding certain tidbits. Lataro is pinging me some too but I wasn't sure between the two of you. Now, you jumping out and following infina and me so quick...mwahaha. Ye must be scum. NaR I mean, not Lataro. See, NaR, by doing what you did you look town forever, while you take us out. I could be wrong about this, but you have NEVER BEFORE EVER been quick to follow me, in fact, you usually question me. Therein lies your mistake.

And people say you can't play well with meta. Totally can, if you understand how to use it right.

NaR: GOTCHA

Also, in doing whatcha did, you confirm to me that mister k is scum.

Now...I must figure out how to post all this. Before day ends. It will give me more cred to call it now than tomorrow.

Lataro, you're off the hook for now. Something is not right with you, however, I had a town vibe from you initially that I think I'm going to stick with. I think I'm actually going to go with that you are one of our cops. That would make sense.

[Sungura]

Also 'cause it came up, thought I"d go through my notes and tally.

Starting from the game Proscription, modded by Vox, as that's the oldest notes I have (Ive been around longer than that, I just used to use scrap paper and now i have a mafia notebook) here are the totals:

Times I said people were scum/anti-town(i.e. SK, scum supporter, etc) and was right: 43 times
Times I was wrong: 10
Giving a 43:10 or 77% chance of being right, mind you for "wrong" though i included questionmarks - ie. thinking but not sure. If I change it to ones I was sure were scum, that number drops to 5, giving a 89% chance of being right. If you drop off day 1's (which is when I'm usually wrong) it's even better than 89%.

Times I said people were town/town power roles (specifically calling "vanilla town" or a power role or something): 20 times I was right, 1 time I was wrong. Giving a 20:1 ratio and 95% correct.

Funnily enough, when I looked at before/after the Princess Bride game (Which is when I first really got the label I have) the ratios were roughly the same. Then again, I don't have about the first 10-12 games I ever played which probably would have dragged down my pre-PB average.

Also these are just forum games, I dn't have notes on IRC games.

[Not A Raptor]

North Pole:

Spoiler:

I swear to god, if both of those spoilers up there are about them suspecting me, I'm going "fuckit" and going on strike until I get a town role. Game. Breaking. (incidentally, I place even money on either mister k or myself getting lynched today. I doubt it'll be long before I can check to see if I was right.)

Seriously, what is with my run of anti-town (and one barely-passable neutral that nearly got me killed early on because of the possibility of a survivor-mafia alliance) roles? I don't want to be Megatriorchis! I don't want to be Mega! Don't make me be Mega! I'll lurk, I swear to God!

(Those of you familiar with Metagame Mafia, please don't laugh.)

[mister k]

Also 'cause it came up, thought I"d go through my notes and tally.

Starting from the game Proscription, modded by Vox, as that's the oldest notes I have (Ive been around longer than that, I just used to use scrap paper and now i have a mafia notebook) here are the totals:

Times I said people were scum/anti-town(i.e. SK, scum supporter, etc) and was right: 43 times
Times I was wrong: 10
Giving a 43:10 or 77% chance of being right, mind you for "wrong" though i included questionmarks - ie. thinking but not sure. If I change it to ones I was sure were scum, that number drops to 5, giving a 89% chance of being right. If you drop off day 1's (which is when I'm usually wrong) it's even better than 89%.

Times I said people were town/town power roles (specifically calling "vanilla town" or a power role or something): 20 times I was right, 1 time I was wrong. Giving a 20:1 ratio and 95% correct.

Funnily enough, when I looked at before/after the Princess Bride game (Which is when I first really got the label I have) the ratios were roughly the same. Then again, I don't have about the first 10-12 games I ever played which probably would have dragged down my pre-PB average.

Also these are just forum games, I dn't have notes on IRC games.

Impressive stats, although the statistican in me does feel compelled to point out that without a baseline such stats lack meaning- we need to know the probability of you being right by chance, and what probability other players average.

[Brooklynxman]

Also 'cause it came up, thought I"d go through my notes and tally.

Starting from the game Proscription, modded by Vox, as that's the oldest notes I have (Ive been around longer than that, I just used to use scrap paper and now i have a mafia notebook) here are the totals:

Times I said people were scum/anti-town(i.e. SK, scum supporter, etc) and was right: 43 times
Times I was wrong: 10
Giving a 43:10 or 77% chance of being right, mind you for "wrong" though i included questionmarks - ie. thinking but not sure. If I change it to ones I was sure were scum, that number drops to 5, giving a 89% chance of being right. If you drop off day 1's (which is when I'm usually wrong) it's even better than 89%.

Times I said people were town/town power roles (specifically calling "vanilla town" or a power role or something): 20 times I was right, 1 time I was wrong. Giving a 20:1 ratio and 95% correct.

Funnily enough, when I looked at before/after the Princess Bride game (Which is when I first really got the label I have) the ratios were roughly the same. Then again, I don't have about the first 10-12 games I ever played which probably would have dragged down my pre-PB average.

Also these are just forum games, I dn't have notes on IRC games.

Impressive stats, although the statistican in me does feel compelled to point out that without a baseline such stats lack meaning- we need to know the probability of you being right by chance, and what probability other players average.

Other players average less. Much less. Essentially she is as good as a public infinite use cop. Are you trying to say other players are as good as a public infinite day cop?

[RoadieRich]

North Pole:

Spoiler:

important question- can we lynch people we've voted to send to sea?

Yes. RR's explanation is not accurate.

Here's how you can think about it:
1. Even though generally a jail majority will be reached before a lynch majority if it occurs at all, the person is not jailed (sent to sea) before the lynch occurs.
2. Forgetting the flavor, send to sea is just the same as a jailkeeper targeting them. That's the same as a doctor and a roleblocker targeting them, neither of which prevent lynches.

I'm happy to answer any questions, but if you think about send to sea in those terms, instead of literally, it should be clear how it works.

If it was up to me (and it's probably a good job it isn't ) "Sending someone to sea" would make them completely untouchable, but unable to post, either, but I guess that's why Silknor's the mastermod, and not me.

[b.i.o]

North Pole

Spoiler:

I really want to be scum in a game that has Amy in it. No-one ever seems to suspect me in the first few days (at least, not any more than when I'm town), and I'd like to see if she can figure me out or not.

[ElectricHaze]

Scrubs:

Spoiler:

I guess now is a good a time as any to stop avoiding playing this game. I just have trouble getting into it because I can't really vote for emphasis when I really believe something, or when I want to apply pressure, or whatever reason I want because of my stupid role restriction... I suppose the lurkyness of the game is also another reason. I can't really get a read so I haven't had much to post about, so I haven't been posting...

Maybe this will stir some life back into the game.

[mister k]

Also 'cause it came up, thought I"d go through my notes and tally.

Starting from the game Proscription, modded by Vox, as that's the oldest notes I have (Ive been around longer than that, I just used to use scrap paper and now i have a mafia notebook) here are the totals:

Times I said people were scum/anti-town(i.e. SK, scum supporter, etc) and was right: 43 times
Times I was wrong: 10
Giving a 43:10 or 77% chance of being right, mind you for "wrong" though i included questionmarks - ie. thinking but not sure. If I change it to ones I was sure were scum, that number drops to 5, giving a 89% chance of being right. If you drop off day 1's (which is when I'm usually wrong) it's even better than 89%.

Times I said people were town/town power roles (specifically calling "vanilla town" or a power role or something): 20 times I was right, 1 time I was wrong. Giving a 20:1 ratio and 95% correct.

Funnily enough, when I looked at before/after the Princess Bride game (Which is when I first really got the label I have) the ratios were roughly the same. Then again, I don't have about the first 10-12 games I ever played which probably would have dragged down my pre-PB average.

Also these are just forum games, I dn't have notes on IRC games.

Impressive stats, although the statistican in me does feel compelled to point out that without a baseline such stats lack meaning- we need to know the probability of you being right by chance, and what probability other players average.

Other players average less. Much less. Essentially she is as good as a public infinite use cop. Are you trying to say other players are as good as a public infinite day cop?

Well no, I just like to point out that statistics deserve a baseline! Gotta stand up for my profession you know...

[Van]

Wizardry V2:

Spoiler:

Wee! I am so Gojoeing. sort of. It was a minor lie.

Also, Old Spice. ♥

(the commericals, not the smell)

[Sungura]

North Pole

Spoiler:

If the town doesn't follow my plan on this, they deserve to loose. It is a win-win for the town no matter how you look at it. People are voting NaR anyway, and I'm saying send mister k out to sea to stop a night kill and don't send me out to sea.

In this process, it proves any way that it turns out, that both NaR and mister k are town, for me putting my own butt on the line. Sure, this means I die tonight. But hopefully people will trust infina enough tomorrow then to save /him/ from tonight since I'm not sure on the 3rd person and he seems more sure than I am. I'll need to do a re-read to figure it out probably.

But seriously, either we FOR SURE block one kill or FOR SURE block both kills by this method. And we know confirmed scum. Two down, one to go. I mean, I'm convinced, but that usually doesn't cut it for the rest.

And I think Lataro is the cop. Having me not at sea lets him cop me, and then tomorrow, he will trust me even more. Except, I'll probably be dead, but oh well.

But yeah, this is a smart play no matter what way you look at it.

Thanks Silky for an awesome setup

[ameretrifle]

Wizardry V2:

Spoiler:

Wee! I am so Gojoeing. sort of. It was a minor lie.

Also, Old Spice. ♥

(the commericals, not the smell)

Wizardry, Van can read:

Spoiler:

Epiiiiiiiiiiic O_O My morning==made.

[Van]

Wizardry V2:

Spoiler:

Wee! I am so Gojoeing. sort of. It was a minor lie.

Also, Old Spice. ♥

(the commericals, not the smell)

Wizardry, Van can read:

Spoiler:

Epiiiiiiiiiiic O_O My morning==made.

This really isn't a spoiler:

Spoiler:

I'm glad someone else liked it

I was (am) feeling humorous this morning.

This is a spoiler
Wizardry V2:

Spoiler:

So I'm thinking. If Lataro is scum (or town, ffffff that'd suck) and gets lynched today, and the NK hits a townie tonight (probably me), this game is probably going to go to a sorcerer. I guess it depends on how well they've rationed spells, and if we have any other fireballs left. I'm a little shocked there hasn't been more carnage thus far, and so I'm not sure if people are just holding back, didn't take evocations, or were blocked by Shields. Hm.

Either way, the late game output of a sorcerer is pretty crazy.

e.g. Fireball + Quickened Fireball + Magic Missiles at night, Alter Vote x2 during day, etc

[ElectricHaze]

Wizardry V2:

Spoiler:

Wee! I am so Gojoeing. sort of. It was a minor lie.

Also, Old Spice. ♥

(the commericals, not the smell)

Wizardry, Van can read:

Spoiler:

Epiiiiiiiiiiic O_O My morning==made.

Wizardry (No one playing can read ):

Spoiler:

I wonder what will happen when she realizes that her logic is flawed and that shi is mistaken about the rules of this "simple" game when someone points out that Resist Fire DOES tell you when it blocks a fireball...

[Mavketl]

Wizardry 2 (Van can read):

Spoiler:

I AM SO CONFUSED RIGHT NOW. It's a good thing I'm not playing that game.

[ElectricHaze]

Wizardry 2 (Van can read):

Spoiler:

I AM SO CONFUSED RIGHT NOW. It's a good thing I'm not playing that game.

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

Please, it is totally simple. Everything you need to know is in the ~3600 word rules post (That excludes flavor, player lists, and standard rules).