The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

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Lataro
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Lataro » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:36 am UTC

Team Lataro:

Spoiler:
Doh! One of the masons sent a night PM just after night started!

Basically, it was saying a confirmation that they shouldn't target anyone N3, and asking for confirmation from the other that they would not.

The other was told to disregard it by me, as I saw the PM shortly after it was sent. Unfortunately, as they put it in a reply to me, it's hard to ignore the implications of the message, that their partner is trustworthy in withholding his action.

Talking things over with roband, I liked his solution. Rather than modly wrath for breaking the rules, the original sender, now has to make the PM untrue, and target someone N3.

I much prefer this solution over a modkill at this stage of the game, so, I've gone with that. I would have left it alone with nothing more than the warning, if the other player hadn't specifically said there was no ignoring what was in it, and went along with the purposed plan. I can't really fault them, since they may have taken the same action without their partner sending that PM improperly, so instead, the punishment will fall to the sender.
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Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby ForAllOfThis » Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:33 pm UTC

Team Lataro:

Spoiler:
Decided not to use my exorcist tonight. Worried that scum will redirect my own exorcism back onto me, which would cause me to die <.<.

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby ConMan » Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:00 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:@conman, I would play a game you ran, sure. But I find privite PM chat without any secret information to discuss to be pretty useless. Try something a little spicier.

Hmm, good point. For my first modding, I want to keep it simple, but I do see where you're coming from - if there's a mechanism to send PMs, there should be a reason for it, too. Let me go and buy a drawing board so I can go back to it and see what I come up with :)
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby ForAllOfThis » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:03 pm UTC

Amy's Surprise Game:

Spoiler:
I'm a 4channer, Town. I'm both unlynchable and can't be nked, but will die if I'm not mentioned for one day.

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Sungura » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:30 pm UTC

Amy Surprise
Spoiler:
roadierich wrote:Things we can expect from an Amygame: cults. And lots of them.
Which is why I didnt put ANY in this game. Mwahaha.

Also bastardy is at 0, but I didnt control which roles people picked (they chose their number) and the role list I worked from does have a few bastardish-type roles, and one of them was picked. No one better get pissy, it was their own fault :P they arent so much bastard as in not the truth.

I basically regenerated every old role OOTD and I wrote in the old days and threw them in a sheet and the number the person picked is the one they got. Everyone has a power of some kind. There is no vanilla. Mostly its a classic crazy game.
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Sungura » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:46 am UTC

I NEED A REPLACEMENT FOR AMYS SURPRISE
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby ConMan » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:01 am UTC

I have come up with a shortlist of power roles for a Neighbourhood Mafia, and if there are no objections I'll put it into the Micro queue. Mechanics are as I mentioned before, plus the power roles. Still not 100% sure how open I'll run it.
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby ForAllOfThis » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:26 am UTC

Amys Surprise Game:

Spoiler:
I'm good at pushing peoples buttons. Getting people to talk about me won't be hard at all.

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby roband » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:55 am UTC

Surprise:
Spoiler:
Baaaaaaaa!

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby weiyaoli » Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:46 pm UTC

Surprise:
Spoiler:
It would have been funny if roband was making up a posting restriction to annoy Mav. Sadly, she only just replaced in. :(
And you thought I was crazy...

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Mavketl » Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:55 pm UTC

Amy's surprise:
Spoiler:
roband's posts are hilarious. Quite possibly scummy, but still, hilarious.

I wonder how long it will take for someone to say 'sheep' (assuming that will make a difference). Maybe forever? :P
Not A Raptor: Mav can be a very wily and dangerous player.
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby _infina_ » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:10 am UTC

4 more and Firefly mafia is guaranteed to run, sign up now.
Extra incentive: If there are fifteen players total signed up in 48 hours, I will start the thread with extra info on the game. :)
Spoiler:
keozen wrote:It took us exactly 3 pages to turn a discussion of a loved children's book series into smut...
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Misnomer » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:30 am UTC

Amy's Surprise:
Spoiler:
Heh, I'm enjoying this :D

At best, I get a half win - at worst, I've distracted everyone on the first day, thrown a bucketload of wine over Roband and caused people to make a load of sheep-related puns. Either way, things are good. :)
moody7277 wrote:The role of SDK in this game will be played by Misnomer. [/soapopera]

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby roband » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:12 am UTC

_infina_ wrote:4 more and Firefly mafia is guaranteed to run, sign up now.
Extra incentive: If there are fifteen players total signed up in 48 hours, I will start the thread with extra info on the game. :)


But then we'll totally have to wait 6 weeks for the game to start :(

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Elvish Pillager » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:03 pm UTC

Misnomer wrote:Amy's Surprise:
Spoiler:
Heh, I'm enjoying this :D

At best, I get a half win - at worst, I've distracted everyone on the first day, thrown a bucketload of wine over Roband and caused people to make a load of sheep-related puns. Either way, things are good. :)

Amy's Surprise (Misnomer can read):
Spoiler:
"At best, I get a half win" doesn't sound so appetizing. Do you mean that at best you get an *additional* half-win? :P
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Misnomer » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:54 pm UTC

Elvish Pillager wrote:
Misnomer wrote:Amy's Surprise:
Spoiler:
Heh, I'm enjoying this :D

At best, I get a half win - at worst, I've distracted everyone on the first day, thrown a bucketload of wine over Roband and caused people to make a load of sheep-related puns. Either way, things are good. :)

Amy's Surprise (Misnomer can read):
Spoiler:
"At best, I get a half win" doesn't sound so appetizing. Do you mean that at best you get an *additional* half-win? :P

Amy's Surprise
Spoiler:
You know, I never actually checked. :|


Ah well, I'm now being offered the chance for an additional half win to my current half win, so a full win is still on the table. ^_^
moody7277 wrote:The role of SDK in this game will be played by Misnomer. [/soapopera]

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby mpolo » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:08 pm UTC

Amy's Suprise

Spoiler:
I have an… unusual role: town Ghost doctor. Once I die, I get a doctor ability for the rest of the game (no posting, though). I guess that means I should be trying to get lynched here.
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby ConMan » Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:50 am UTC

Hey guys, Neighbourhood Mafia is in sign-ups and with Lataro pulling out that leaves only Vieto playing - you don't want him to win by default, do you?

Imagine if Desperate Housewives, Mr Roger's Neighbourhood and Sesame Street were forged into a single mafia game. Well, Neighbourhood Mafia is nothing like that (but I reserve the rights to run such a game in future). It's seven players, so even though it's not turbo it's not going to run too long, meaning you can probably hop in and be finished before your next game even starts!
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Krong » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:16 am UTC

Amy's Surprise:
Spoiler:
Hey, guess who has two thumbs and is always mafia in each and every game he plays?

--> This guy -->


I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the above quote pyramids are for my scumbuddy expressing shock that Amy would confirm a member of our mafia as town in flavor, while also specifically stating "No bastardry" and being Amy. All I can say on that is that it's rather... interesting. (Oh, and of course I say "Yay, weiyaoli is confirmed town", because that's what I would say as town, before realizing he's not so much. That's another one of those "I really don't want to post this, but first impressions are the most honest...")

Actually, I do have more to say about whether this is bastardry.

If someone were to ask Amy in boldface, "Are Angua and weiyaoli town?" and she said "Yes.", that would be bastardry, as it would be a direct lie from a mod. I think it would be slightly different if there was some sort of acknowledgment that this is game information that we can take or leave... for instance, the difference between a cop getting these two PMs:

Mod wrote:
Copguy wrote:Investigate: Targetname
Targetname is town.

Mod wrote:
Copguy wrote:Investigate: Targetname
You get a result of TOWN.


It's only a slight difference, but the second makes it so that the mod can both tell the whole truth to the cop and at the same time not reveal the fact that he's insane/naive/whatever. Not that there's a problem with the mod lying, but you probably shouldn't when you explicitly stated you wouldn't. :D

Also, you better believe I'd be asking in boldface about the information in that flavor if I were town. If it's meant to be solid info, I would want to be sure of that.


Other thoughts:
So suppose the other mafia faction is real and also has a confirmed townie. (I'd tend to think Angua is legit and that the mafia factions are asymmetrical, but just suppose.) This becomes a rather interesting game theory problem, in that both sides would really want to kill the other mafia's "townie" first, but in doing so would put their own "townie" at risk. I think this is basically the prisoner's dilemma?

I don't think we try to kill Angua, though, because I imagine whatever doc powers that are out there are going to be quite logically thrown at the confirmed townies, given that scum would want to wipe them out more.
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:17 am UTC

GoP's Magika game and Webby's Scales of Justice are still sitting rotting in the queue. Consider this a reminder for people to sign up please? If people are not interested can you let us know why? Too busy, or the game's not interesting enough? It's hard to gauge people's intereste here. I'm considering running my scavenger game now if people would be interested in that.
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby AngrySquirrel » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:07 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:If people are not interested can you let us know why? Too busy, or the game's not interesting enough? It's hard to gauge people's intereste here. I'm considering running my scavenger game now if people would be interested in that.

I only sign up for games that seem extremely interesting or have mods I know I really enjoy the mod-style of. Currently, none of the games in sign-ups do that for me, so I'm not signing up. I'd rather play in a game I feel enthusiastic about, than do a half-arsed effort in a game I'm unsure if I'll enjoy and ruin it for others.
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Sungura » Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:09 pm UTC

Krong wrote:Amy's Surprise:
Spoiler:
Hey, guess who has two thumbs and is always mafia in each and every game he plays?

--> This guy -->


I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the above quote pyramids are for my scumbuddy expressing shock that Amy would confirm a member of our mafia as town in flavor, while also specifically stating "No bastardry" and being Amy. All I can say on that is that it's rather... interesting. (Oh, and of course I say "Yay, weiyaoli is confirmed town", because that's what I would say as town, before realizing he's not so much. That's another one of those "I really don't want to post this, but first impressions are the most honest...")

Actually, I do have more to say about whether this is bastardry.

If someone were to ask Amy in boldface, "Are Angua and weiyaoli town?" and she said "Yes.", that would be bastardry, as it would be a direct lie from a mod. I think it would be slightly different if there was some sort of acknowledgment that this is game information that we can take or leave... for instance, the difference between a cop getting these two PMs:

Mod wrote:
Copguy wrote:Investigate: Targetname
Targetname is town.

Mod wrote:
Copguy wrote:Investigate: Targetname
You get a result of TOWN.


It's only a slight difference, but the second makes it so that the mod can both tell the whole truth to the cop and at the same time not reveal the fact that he's insane/naive/whatever. Not that there's a problem with the mod lying, but you probably shouldn't when you explicitly stated you wouldn't. :D

Also, you better believe I'd be asking in boldface about the information in that flavor if I were town. If it's meant to be solid info, I would want to be sure of that.


Other thoughts:
So suppose the other mafia faction is real and also has a confirmed townie. (I'd tend to think Angua is legit and that the mafia factions are asymmetrical, but just suppose.) This becomes a rather interesting game theory problem, in that both sides would really want to kill the other mafia's "townie" first, but in doing so would put their own "townie" at risk. I think this is basically the prisoner's dilemma?

I don't think we try to kill Angua, though, because I imagine whatever doc powers that are out there are going to be quite logically thrown at the confirmed townies, given that scum would want to wipe them out more.

Amys Surprise (krong CAN NOT read)
Spoiler:
And that is where I knew someone would call me out on the bastardy thing. The..."rules" about bastardy have changed from when I started playing/these roles were created and now I think, before it was always taken to assume there are always chances of roles that have inherent lying in them - ex. Godfather. I see this role as no different than such a role, except by the rules of the role instead of confirming town via cop, its just confirmed town, period.

Bastardy used to mean mods outright lying - ex player a is a rolecop and cops player b who is a doctor, but it comes back that player b is the godfather. No game mechanics in play, just being a bastard lying mod. Hence...bastard game.

Under these apparently new terms of EVERYTHING has to be TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY HONEST to not be bastard, heck even a Godfather role then isnt allowed. And they will probably even think the rolechanger is bastard, and the one who can redirect night actions. These aren't bastard roles, these are classic Crazy Game Roles, mostly written by OneOfTheDragon and myself "back in the day". Nothing bastard about them, they are just fun roles and switch things up.
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby AngrySquirrel » Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:04 pm UTC

Sungura wrote:
Krong wrote:Amy's Surprise:
Spoiler:
Hey, guess who has two thumbs and is always mafia in each and every game he plays?

--> This guy -->


I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the above quote pyramids are for my scumbuddy expressing shock that Amy would confirm a member of our mafia as town in flavor, while also specifically stating "No bastardry" and being Amy. All I can say on that is that it's rather... interesting. (Oh, and of course I say "Yay, weiyaoli is confirmed town", because that's what I would say as town, before realizing he's not so much. That's another one of those "I really don't want to post this, but first impressions are the most honest...")

Actually, I do have more to say about whether this is bastardry.

If someone were to ask Amy in boldface, "Are Angua and weiyaoli town?" and she said "Yes.", that would be bastardry, as it would be a direct lie from a mod. I think it would be slightly different if there was some sort of acknowledgment that this is game information that we can take or leave... for instance, the difference between a cop getting these two PMs:

Mod wrote:
Copguy wrote:Investigate: Targetname
Targetname is town.

Mod wrote:
Copguy wrote:Investigate: Targetname
You get a result of TOWN.


It's only a slight difference, but the second makes it so that the mod can both tell the whole truth to the cop and at the same time not reveal the fact that he's insane/naive/whatever. Not that there's a problem with the mod lying, but you probably shouldn't when you explicitly stated you wouldn't. :D

Also, you better believe I'd be asking in boldface about the information in that flavor if I were town. If it's meant to be solid info, I would want to be sure of that.


Other thoughts:
So suppose the other mafia faction is real and also has a confirmed townie. (I'd tend to think Angua is legit and that the mafia factions are asymmetrical, but just suppose.) This becomes a rather interesting game theory problem, in that both sides would really want to kill the other mafia's "townie" first, but in doing so would put their own "townie" at risk. I think this is basically the prisoner's dilemma?

I don't think we try to kill Angua, though, because I imagine whatever doc powers that are out there are going to be quite logically thrown at the confirmed townies, given that scum would want to wipe them out more.

Amys Surprise (krong CAN NOT read)
Spoiler:
And that is where I knew someone would call me out on the bastardy thing. The..."rules" about bastardy have changed from when I started playing/these roles were created and now I think, before it was always taken to assume there are always chances of roles that have inherent lying in them - ex. Godfather. I see this role as no different than such a role, except by the rules of the role instead of confirming town via cop, its just confirmed town, period.

Bastardy used to mean mods outright lying - ex player a is a rolecop and cops player b who is a doctor, but it comes back that player b is the godfather. No game mechanics in play, just being a bastard lying mod. Hence...bastard game.

Under these apparently new terms of EVERYTHING has to be TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY HONEST to not be bastard, heck even a Godfather role then isnt allowed. And they will probably even think the rolechanger is bastard, and the one who can redirect night actions. These aren't bastard roles, these are classic Crazy Game Roles, mostly written by OneOfTheDragon and myself "back in the day". Nothing bastard about them, they are just fun roles and switch things up.


Amy's Surprise
Spoiler:
Bastard games used to be games where either the mod had decided who would win beforehand or games that simple weren't winnable by anyone. Now it's basically used about every single game, or at least that's what it seems like to me. Lying to players? Not really bastardry. Giving the player a role that's in reality a SK and telling them they're a cop, proper bastardry. Making all players town, then randomly killing them all off one by one in order to feed their paranoia and make them lynch each other? Cruel heartless bastardry. Mod lying when a player tries to get them to confirm someone as either scum or town? Good modding.
Putting the fist into pacifist.

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Lataro » Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:22 pm UTC

AngrySquirrel wrote:
Sungura wrote:
Krong wrote:Amy's Surprise:
Spoiler:
Hey, guess who has two thumbs and is always mafia in each and every game he plays?

--> This guy -->


I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the above quote pyramids are for my scumbuddy expressing shock that Amy would confirm a member of our mafia as town in flavor, while also specifically stating "No bastardry" and being Amy. All I can say on that is that it's rather... interesting. (Oh, and of course I say "Yay, weiyaoli is confirmed town", because that's what I would say as town, before realizing he's not so much. That's another one of those "I really don't want to post this, but first impressions are the most honest...")

Actually, I do have more to say about whether this is bastardry.

If someone were to ask Amy in boldface, "Are Angua and weiyaoli town?" and she said "Yes.", that would be bastardry, as it would be a direct lie from a mod. I think it would be slightly different if there was some sort of acknowledgment that this is game information that we can take or leave... for instance, the difference between a cop getting these two PMs:

Mod wrote:
Copguy wrote:Investigate: Targetname
Targetname is town.

Mod wrote:
Copguy wrote:Investigate: Targetname
You get a result of TOWN.


It's only a slight difference, but the second makes it so that the mod can both tell the whole truth to the cop and at the same time not reveal the fact that he's insane/naive/whatever. Not that there's a problem with the mod lying, but you probably shouldn't when you explicitly stated you wouldn't. :D

Also, you better believe I'd be asking in boldface about the information in that flavor if I were town. If it's meant to be solid info, I would want to be sure of that.


Other thoughts:
So suppose the other mafia faction is real and also has a confirmed townie. (I'd tend to think Angua is legit and that the mafia factions are asymmetrical, but just suppose.) This becomes a rather interesting game theory problem, in that both sides would really want to kill the other mafia's "townie" first, but in doing so would put their own "townie" at risk. I think this is basically the prisoner's dilemma?

I don't think we try to kill Angua, though, because I imagine whatever doc powers that are out there are going to be quite logically thrown at the confirmed townies, given that scum would want to wipe them out more.

Amys Surprise (krong CAN NOT read)
Spoiler:
And that is where I knew someone would call me out on the bastardy thing. The..."rules" about bastardy have changed from when I started playing/these roles were created and now I think, before it was always taken to assume there are always chances of roles that have inherent lying in them - ex. Godfather. I see this role as no different than such a role, except by the rules of the role instead of confirming town via cop, its just confirmed town, period.

Bastardy used to mean mods outright lying - ex player a is a rolecop and cops player b who is a doctor, but it comes back that player b is the godfather. No game mechanics in play, just being a bastard lying mod. Hence...bastard game.

Under these apparently new terms of EVERYTHING has to be TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY HONEST to not be bastard, heck even a Godfather role then isnt allowed. And they will probably even think the rolechanger is bastard, and the one who can redirect night actions. These aren't bastard roles, these are classic Crazy Game Roles, mostly written by OneOfTheDragon and myself "back in the day". Nothing bastard about them, they are just fun roles and switch things up.


Amy's Surprise
Spoiler:
Bastard games used to be games where either the mod had decided who would win beforehand or games that simple weren't winnable by anyone. Now it's basically used about every single game, or at least that's what it seems like to me. Lying to players? Not really bastardry. Giving the player a role that's in reality a SK and telling them they're a cop, proper bastardry. Making all players town, then randomly killing them all off one by one in order to feed their paranoia and make them lynch each other? Cruel heartless bastardry. Mod lying when a player tries to get them to confirm someone as either scum or town? Good modding.


Amy's Game
Spoiler:
Awhile ago, a very wise man gave us this, and I believe the majority of people liked/agreed with it at the time. Personally, I find it to be a very sound template to go with.

Silknor, From Zoo Mafia Page 3 wrote:As I see it there's three main avenues of bastardy:

1. The lie. This is the classic type. A PM that says you're a vanilla townie, but you're really a SK+Doctor who can self protect (but you have to send in a PM to do so each night) and dies if they use the word "the" is bastardy of the of classic sense. The first part is a plain old lie. The second part (not mentioning a lethal posting restriction) is a lie of omission. Now, it's important to note what would not be a lie of omission: creating a role where someone can privately day kill anyone who used the word "the" in a post, and they have unlimited daykills. That information obviously doesn't belong in the PM of anyone but the daykiller, so it's not a lie of omission. It might not even be bastardy, but it sure sounds like bad modding.

2. Mod intervention.
a. When obviously violating the rules. It's easiest to think about this in terms of a completely open game. If the mod has a cop listed as sane and no one cop-immune, but two scum got lynched d1 and d2 and so there's only one left so the mod changes the other scum to cop immune without telling anyone, then it's clear bastardy. It's less bastardy if they announce the rule change, probably even a justifiable form of bastardy in some circumstances, but it's still bastardy to me. Now in a closed game, it's less clear where bastardy ends. If you tell the cop they're sane and don't mention if some may be cop immune, it's easier to make the rule change without anyone knowing (except the scum you're helping).

b. In a way where it's impossible to prove the rules where violated. Eg. if the mod says they'll flip a coin (eg to determine if a 50% success rate doctor fails or tie breaking a lynch), but really they use purposeful decisions. It's clearly bastardy, regardless of it the mod intervened (made a decision based on some value instead of a random pick) to help make the game more balanced or to help one team win without regard to balance. But most would say the former type is more acceptable, even if it's still bastardy.

c. In a way that violates norms, but neither follows nor violates any rule given for the game. I can't ever remember reading a role that says the mod can't arbitrarily decide to tell random town players who the scum are outside of the stated rules and normal procedures (eg. cops, or roughly, the practice of telling guards in sins who the king is). If I give someone a role called Amy Wannabe, and tell them who all the scum are at the start, that's neither mod intervention nor bastardy (it's just very likely to be bad modding). But if I see the town is falling behind so I tell a pair of townies each who one of the scum is, that's intervention and it's bastardy (unless it's following a proscribed rule, in an open game it wouldn't be bastardy at all to have a rule that says at double LYLO, the mod shall tell a random town player the name of a random scum player, in a closed game, that rule if extant from the start would still violate #3 below and so be bastardy, though it would no longer be intervention).

d*. Non-bastard intervention. There's some classic examples of this. The oracle and inventor in contemporary usage are by definition interventionist. Unless you made the oracle results and inventions before the game started, there's no way they couldn't be. And yet I would certainly hesitate to call including an oracle or inventor bastardy, even in a closed game. Now, some inventions may be bastardy in that they break #3, or create opportunities for the breaking of 2b. or 2c. for example. And they may be strongly interventionist if, as is common, inventions are more likely to be powerful as the inventor's side becomes more likely to lose. But they're not by definition, in my view, bastardy. There's some non-classic examples of this too, including a role I've used in a previous game (*wink*, really though, there's nothing to gain by looking it up).

3. The truth you can't handle. Say the mod, in a closed game, creates a role that flaunts an unwritten rule. One that shatters expectations about what's fair, balanced, acceptable, or even mafia at it's core. A great example of this is a role I considered for Openly Bastard when it was still a closed game: One of their powers would have been the ability to read spoilers in the discussion thread for my game. Obviously switching to open lead me to drop this idea. By the way, this role is not in this game, even remotely, and it's highly unlikely I'll ever implement it, especially now that I've mentioned it to people outside some of my co-mods for that game. Strictly applying the other standards, this is not bastardy, as long as no rule is posted in the game thread (even by reference) that says players can't read spoilers. So clearly the strict standards don't capture all of the essence of bastardy, because I can't imagine very many people would say this role isn't bastardy.

No where in here of course is there reason to classify as bastard a role that meets conventional usage of the word, but not the technical mafia usage. The role I received in Asylumafia was bastard in the sense that it made me think OMGUSUBastard (ok I didn't think that, but I'd have been fairly justified in thinking it). I wasn't allowed to use the letter e. If that was done for mean-spirited reasons (which I don't suspect), it'd modding by a bastard but not bastard modding.

Ok so as you can see, I excessively enjoy discussing bastard modding, even though I so rarely practice it myself. Now I think there was a question which prompted my explanation, so lets take a stab at answering what I think you actually want to know.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby AngrySquirrel » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:01 pm UTC

Lataro wrote:
AngrySquirrel wrote:
Sungura wrote:
Krong wrote:Amy's Surprise:
Spoiler:
Hey, guess who has two thumbs and is always mafia in each and every game he plays?

--> This guy -->


I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the above quote pyramids are for my scumbuddy expressing shock that Amy would confirm a member of our mafia as town in flavor, while also specifically stating "No bastardry" and being Amy. All I can say on that is that it's rather... interesting. (Oh, and of course I say "Yay, weiyaoli is confirmed town", because that's what I would say as town, before realizing he's not so much. That's another one of those "I really don't want to post this, but first impressions are the most honest...")

Actually, I do have more to say about whether this is bastardry.

If someone were to ask Amy in boldface, "Are Angua and weiyaoli town?" and she said "Yes.", that would be bastardry, as it would be a direct lie from a mod. I think it would be slightly different if there was some sort of acknowledgment that this is game information that we can take or leave... for instance, the difference between a cop getting these two PMs:

Mod wrote:
Copguy wrote:Investigate: Targetname
Targetname is town.

Mod wrote:
Copguy wrote:Investigate: Targetname
You get a result of TOWN.


It's only a slight difference, but the second makes it so that the mod can both tell the whole truth to the cop and at the same time not reveal the fact that he's insane/naive/whatever. Not that there's a problem with the mod lying, but you probably shouldn't when you explicitly stated you wouldn't. :D

Also, you better believe I'd be asking in boldface about the information in that flavor if I were town. If it's meant to be solid info, I would want to be sure of that.


Other thoughts:
So suppose the other mafia faction is real and also has a confirmed townie. (I'd tend to think Angua is legit and that the mafia factions are asymmetrical, but just suppose.) This becomes a rather interesting game theory problem, in that both sides would really want to kill the other mafia's "townie" first, but in doing so would put their own "townie" at risk. I think this is basically the prisoner's dilemma?

I don't think we try to kill Angua, though, because I imagine whatever doc powers that are out there are going to be quite logically thrown at the confirmed townies, given that scum would want to wipe them out more.

Amys Surprise (krong CAN NOT read)
Spoiler:
And that is where I knew someone would call me out on the bastardy thing. The..."rules" about bastardy have changed from when I started playing/these roles were created and now I think, before it was always taken to assume there are always chances of roles that have inherent lying in them - ex. Godfather. I see this role as no different than such a role, except by the rules of the role instead of confirming town via cop, its just confirmed town, period.

Bastardy used to mean mods outright lying - ex player a is a rolecop and cops player b who is a doctor, but it comes back that player b is the godfather. No game mechanics in play, just being a bastard lying mod. Hence...bastard game.

Under these apparently new terms of EVERYTHING has to be TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY HONEST to not be bastard, heck even a Godfather role then isnt allowed. And they will probably even think the rolechanger is bastard, and the one who can redirect night actions. These aren't bastard roles, these are classic Crazy Game Roles, mostly written by OneOfTheDragon and myself "back in the day". Nothing bastard about them, they are just fun roles and switch things up.


Amy's Surprise
Spoiler:
Bastard games used to be games where either the mod had decided who would win beforehand or games that simple weren't winnable by anyone. Now it's basically used about every single game, or at least that's what it seems like to me. Lying to players? Not really bastardry. Giving the player a role that's in reality a SK and telling them they're a cop, proper bastardry. Making all players town, then randomly killing them all off one by one in order to feed their paranoia and make them lynch each other? Cruel heartless bastardry. Mod lying when a player tries to get them to confirm someone as either scum or town? Good modding.


Amy's Game
Spoiler:
Awhile ago, a very wise man gave us this, and I believe the majority of people liked/agreed with it at the time. Personally, I find it to be a very sound template to go with.

Silknor, From Zoo Mafia Page 3 wrote:As I see it there's three main avenues of bastardy:

1. The lie. This is the classic type. A PM that says you're a vanilla townie, but you're really a SK+Doctor who can self protect (but you have to send in a PM to do so each night) and dies if they use the word "the" is bastardy of the of classic sense. The first part is a plain old lie. The second part (not mentioning a lethal posting restriction) is a lie of omission. Now, it's important to note what would not be a lie of omission: creating a role where someone can privately day kill anyone who used the word "the" in a post, and they have unlimited daykills. That information obviously doesn't belong in the PM of anyone but the daykiller, so it's not a lie of omission. It might not even be bastardy, but it sure sounds like bad modding.

2. Mod intervention.
a. When obviously violating the rules. It's easiest to think about this in terms of a completely open game. If the mod has a cop listed as sane and no one cop-immune, but two scum got lynched d1 and d2 and so there's only one left so the mod changes the other scum to cop immune without telling anyone, then it's clear bastardy. It's less bastardy if they announce the rule change, probably even a justifiable form of bastardy in some circumstances, but it's still bastardy to me. Now in a closed game, it's less clear where bastardy ends. If you tell the cop they're sane and don't mention if some may be cop immune, it's easier to make the rule change without anyone knowing (except the scum you're helping).

b. In a way where it's impossible to prove the rules where violated. Eg. if the mod says they'll flip a coin (eg to determine if a 50% success rate doctor fails or tie breaking a lynch), but really they use purposeful decisions. It's clearly bastardy, regardless of it the mod intervened (made a decision based on some value instead of a random pick) to help make the game more balanced or to help one team win without regard to balance. But most would say the former type is more acceptable, even if it's still bastardy.

c. In a way that violates norms, but neither follows nor violates any rule given for the game. I can't ever remember reading a role that says the mod can't arbitrarily decide to tell random town players who the scum are outside of the stated rules and normal procedures (eg. cops, or roughly, the practice of telling guards in sins who the king is). If I give someone a role called Amy Wannabe, and tell them who all the scum are at the start, that's neither mod intervention nor bastardy (it's just very likely to be bad modding). But if I see the town is falling behind so I tell a pair of townies each who one of the scum is, that's intervention and it's bastardy (unless it's following a proscribed rule, in an open game it wouldn't be bastardy at all to have a rule that says at double LYLO, the mod shall tell a random town player the name of a random scum player, in a closed game, that rule if extant from the start would still violate #3 below and so be bastardy, though it would no longer be intervention).

d*. Non-bastard intervention. There's some classic examples of this. The oracle and inventor in contemporary usage are by definition interventionist. Unless you made the oracle results and inventions before the game started, there's no way they couldn't be. And yet I would certainly hesitate to call including an oracle or inventor bastardy, even in a closed game. Now, some inventions may be bastardy in that they break #3, or create opportunities for the breaking of 2b. or 2c. for example. And they may be strongly interventionist if, as is common, inventions are more likely to be powerful as the inventor's side becomes more likely to lose. But they're not by definition, in my view, bastardy. There's some non-classic examples of this too, including a role I've used in a previous game (*wink*, really though, there's nothing to gain by looking it up).

3. The truth you can't handle. Say the mod, in a closed game, creates a role that flaunts an unwritten rule. One that shatters expectations about what's fair, balanced, acceptable, or even mafia at it's core. A great example of this is a role I considered for Openly Bastard when it was still a closed game: One of their powers would have been the ability to read spoilers in the discussion thread for my game. Obviously switching to open lead me to drop this idea. By the way, this role is not in this game, even remotely, and it's highly unlikely I'll ever implement it, especially now that I've mentioned it to people outside some of my co-mods for that game. Strictly applying the other standards, this is not bastardy, as long as no rule is posted in the game thread (even by reference) that says players can't read spoilers. So clearly the strict standards don't capture all of the essence of bastardy, because I can't imagine very many people would say this role isn't bastardy.

No where in here of course is there reason to classify as bastard a role that meets conventional usage of the word, but not the technical mafia usage. The role I received in Asylumafia was bastard in the sense that it made me think OMGUSUBastard (ok I didn't think that, but I'd have been fairly justified in thinking it). I wasn't allowed to use the letter e. If that was done for mean-spirited reasons (which I don't suspect), it'd modding by a bastard but not bastard modding.

Ok so as you can see, I excessively enjoy discussing bastard modding, even though I so rarely practice it myself. Now I think there was a question which prompted my explanation, so lets take a stab at answering what I think you actually want to know.


Amy's Surprise
Spoiler:
I swear there was a post somewhere with classifications for levels of bastardry and what constitutes what level. But of course I can't find it and I don't remember who posted it.
Putting the fist into pacifist.

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Sungura » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:02 pm UTC

Lataro wrote:
AngrySquirrel wrote:
Sungura wrote:
Krong wrote:Amy's Surprise:
Spoiler:
Hey, guess who has two thumbs and is always mafia in each and every game he plays?

--> This guy -->


I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the above quote pyramids are for my scumbuddy expressing shock that Amy would confirm a member of our mafia as town in flavor, while also specifically stating "No bastardry" and being Amy. All I can say on that is that it's rather... interesting. (Oh, and of course I say "Yay, weiyaoli is confirmed town", because that's what I would say as town, before realizing he's not so much. That's another one of those "I really don't want to post this, but first impressions are the most honest...")

Actually, I do have more to say about whether this is bastardry.

If someone were to ask Amy in boldface, "Are Angua and weiyaoli town?" and she said "Yes.", that would be bastardry, as it would be a direct lie from a mod. I think it would be slightly different if there was some sort of acknowledgment that this is game information that we can take or leave... for instance, the difference between a cop getting these two PMs:

Mod wrote:
Copguy wrote:Investigate: Targetname
Targetname is town.

Mod wrote:
Copguy wrote:Investigate: Targetname
You get a result of TOWN.


It's only a slight difference, but the second makes it so that the mod can both tell the whole truth to the cop and at the same time not reveal the fact that he's insane/naive/whatever. Not that there's a problem with the mod lying, but you probably shouldn't when you explicitly stated you wouldn't. :D

Also, you better believe I'd be asking in boldface about the information in that flavor if I were town. If it's meant to be solid info, I would want to be sure of that.


Other thoughts:
So suppose the other mafia faction is real and also has a confirmed townie. (I'd tend to think Angua is legit and that the mafia factions are asymmetrical, but just suppose.) This becomes a rather interesting game theory problem, in that both sides would really want to kill the other mafia's "townie" first, but in doing so would put their own "townie" at risk. I think this is basically the prisoner's dilemma?

I don't think we try to kill Angua, though, because I imagine whatever doc powers that are out there are going to be quite logically thrown at the confirmed townies, given that scum would want to wipe them out more.

Amys Surprise (krong CAN NOT read)
Spoiler:
And that is where I knew someone would call me out on the bastardy thing. The..."rules" about bastardy have changed from when I started playing/these roles were created and now I think, before it was always taken to assume there are always chances of roles that have inherent lying in them - ex. Godfather. I see this role as no different than such a role, except by the rules of the role instead of confirming town via cop, its just confirmed town, period.

Bastardy used to mean mods outright lying - ex player a is a rolecop and cops player b who is a doctor, but it comes back that player b is the godfather. No game mechanics in play, just being a bastard lying mod. Hence...bastard game.

Under these apparently new terms of EVERYTHING has to be TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY HONEST to not be bastard, heck even a Godfather role then isnt allowed. And they will probably even think the rolechanger is bastard, and the one who can redirect night actions. These aren't bastard roles, these are classic Crazy Game Roles, mostly written by OneOfTheDragon and myself "back in the day". Nothing bastard about them, they are just fun roles and switch things up.


Amy's Surprise
Spoiler:
Bastard games used to be games where either the mod had decided who would win beforehand or games that simple weren't winnable by anyone. Now it's basically used about every single game, or at least that's what it seems like to me. Lying to players? Not really bastardry. Giving the player a role that's in reality a SK and telling them they're a cop, proper bastardry. Making all players town, then randomly killing them all off one by one in order to feed their paranoia and make them lynch each other? Cruel heartless bastardry. Mod lying when a player tries to get them to confirm someone as either scum or town? Good modding.


Amy's Game
Spoiler:
Awhile ago, a very wise man gave us this, and I believe the majority of people liked/agreed with it at the time. Personally, I find it to be a very sound template to go with.

Silknor, From Zoo Mafia Page 3 wrote:As I see it there's three main avenues of bastardy:

1. The lie. This is the classic type. A PM that says you're a vanilla townie, but you're really a SK+Doctor who can self protect (but you have to send in a PM to do so each night) and dies if they use the word "the" is bastardy of the of classic sense. The first part is a plain old lie. The second part (not mentioning a lethal posting restriction) is a lie of omission. Now, it's important to note what would not be a lie of omission: creating a role where someone can privately day kill anyone who used the word "the" in a post, and they have unlimited daykills. That information obviously doesn't belong in the PM of anyone but the daykiller, so it's not a lie of omission. It might not even be bastardy, but it sure sounds like bad modding.

2. Mod intervention.
a. When obviously violating the rules. It's easiest to think about this in terms of a completely open game. If the mod has a cop listed as sane and no one cop-immune, but two scum got lynched d1 and d2 and so there's only one left so the mod changes the other scum to cop immune without telling anyone, then it's clear bastardy. It's less bastardy if they announce the rule change, probably even a justifiable form of bastardy in some circumstances, but it's still bastardy to me. Now in a closed game, it's less clear where bastardy ends. If you tell the cop they're sane and don't mention if some may be cop immune, it's easier to make the rule change without anyone knowing (except the scum you're helping).

b. In a way where it's impossible to prove the rules where violated. Eg. if the mod says they'll flip a coin (eg to determine if a 50% success rate doctor fails or tie breaking a lynch), but really they use purposeful decisions. It's clearly bastardy, regardless of it the mod intervened (made a decision based on some value instead of a random pick) to help make the game more balanced or to help one team win without regard to balance. But most would say the former type is more acceptable, even if it's still bastardy.

c. In a way that violates norms, but neither follows nor violates any rule given for the game. I can't ever remember reading a role that says the mod can't arbitrarily decide to tell random town players who the scum are outside of the stated rules and normal procedures (eg. cops, or roughly, the practice of telling guards in sins who the king is). If I give someone a role called Amy Wannabe, and tell them who all the scum are at the start, that's neither mod intervention nor bastardy (it's just very likely to be bad modding). But if I see the town is falling behind so I tell a pair of townies each who one of the scum is, that's intervention and it's bastardy (unless it's following a proscribed rule, in an open game it wouldn't be bastardy at all to have a rule that says at double LYLO, the mod shall tell a random town player the name of a random scum player, in a closed game, that rule if extant from the start would still violate #3 below and so be bastardy, though it would no longer be intervention).

d*. Non-bastard intervention. There's some classic examples of this. The oracle and inventor in contemporary usage are by definition interventionist. Unless you made the oracle results and inventions before the game started, there's no way they couldn't be. And yet I would certainly hesitate to call including an oracle or inventor bastardy, even in a closed game. Now, some inventions may be bastardy in that they break #3, or create opportunities for the breaking of 2b. or 2c. for example. And they may be strongly interventionist if, as is common, inventions are more likely to be powerful as the inventor's side becomes more likely to lose. But they're not by definition, in my view, bastardy. There's some non-classic examples of this too, including a role I've used in a previous game (*wink*, really though, there's nothing to gain by looking it up).

3. The truth you can't handle. Say the mod, in a closed game, creates a role that flaunts an unwritten rule. One that shatters expectations about what's fair, balanced, acceptable, or even mafia at it's core. A great example of this is a role I considered for Openly Bastard when it was still a closed game: One of their powers would have been the ability to read spoilers in the discussion thread for my game. Obviously switching to open lead me to drop this idea. By the way, this role is not in this game, even remotely, and it's highly unlikely I'll ever implement it, especially now that I've mentioned it to people outside some of my co-mods for that game. Strictly applying the other standards, this is not bastardy, as long as no rule is posted in the game thread (even by reference) that says players can't read spoilers. So clearly the strict standards don't capture all of the essence of bastardy, because I can't imagine very many people would say this role isn't bastardy.

No where in here of course is there reason to classify as bastard a role that meets conventional usage of the word, but not the technical mafia usage. The role I received in Asylumafia was bastard in the sense that it made me think OMGUSUBastard (ok I didn't think that, but I'd have been fairly justified in thinking it). I wasn't allowed to use the letter e. If that was done for mean-spirited reasons (which I don't suspect), it'd modding by a bastard but not bastard modding.

Ok so as you can see, I excessively enjoy discussing bastard modding, even though I so rarely practice it myself. Now I think there was a question which prompted my explanation, so lets take a stab at answering what I think you actually want to know.


Amy Surprise
Spoiler:
I read through all of the quote from Silknor and....I still dont see anything in there about what my game is being bastard really.

And yeah, AngrySquirrel, what you said. That's what Bastard Games were.

Basically, if having the STANDARD, VANILLA role of Godfather is bastard, my game is bastard, and I disagree with that so uh, your problem since I am mod, LOL. If not, we're good. Because otherwise have to start talking about are inventors bastard? They can change the game up from original plans. Are masons or cults or recruiting mafia bastard? That changes alignments. Someone cops x they come back town net day are recruited now they arent town. Thats not bastard its the GAME.
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby AngrySquirrel » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:03 pm UTC

By the way, is anyone doing a Secret Santa game this year?

I don't think I'll be able to drag up the energy to mod one myself, but that would definitely be a game I'd be interested in signing up for.
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Sungura » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:03 pm UTC

Amys Surprise
Spoiler:
Also, players lie! Kinda the whole point of the game is lying and misdirection to avoid detection. So if thats bastard...well...dont play :P
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Gojoe » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:16 pm UTC

AngrySquirrel wrote:By the way, is anyone doing a Secret Santa game this year?

I don't think I'll be able to drag up the energy to mod one myself, but that would definitely be a game I'd be interested in signing up for.
If someone mods it I will play it.
michaelandjimi wrote:Oh Mr Gojoe
I won't make fun of your mojo.
Though in this fora I serenade you
I really only do it to aid you.
*Various positive comments on your masculinity
That continue on into infinity*

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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby RoadieRich » Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:05 pm UTC

Amy's Surprise:
Spoiler:
The flavour post that says scum is confirmed town is SBI (Silknor's Bastardry Index) type 1: the lie. It's the difference between saying, as I think AS pointed out, when someone cops a godfather: "you get a result of town", and "<x> is town". The flavour says the latter.

Add to that a role that, in my opinion, is unwinnable (a nerfed SK), and I'm glad I got out.
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Sungura » Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:24 pm UTC

Amys surprise
Spoiler:
Quote:
"They only know two they can trust: weiyoli and Angua, who have been confirmed townies for years, as they are never under question, always under the radar. People feel safe with them."

Let me highlight the clues that you cant necesarily trust them....
1) Have been confirmed for years = things change
2) Never under question = have not been questioned, this is just assumed, for years
3) Always under the radar = arent the people you are often most worried about those who fly under the radar?
4) Feel safe with them = feel =/= is
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby ConMan » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:35 pm UTC

Amy's Surprise (and btw, well done for generating so much discussion here! ;) ):
Spoiler:
I agree that the flavour text doesn't say outright that weiy and Angua are confirmed town, it does just about everything short of that. I don't think that a Godfather is a particularly bastard role, especially if players are aware of the possibility that cop results may not always be reliable; similarly with things like recruiting powers, that may invalidate previous accurate cop results. However, if Mod flavour text is written to give players hints about the layout of the game, but in a way that makes them assume things that aren't true, then while it isn't complete bastardry I think it scores at least a couple of bastard points.


And regarding sign-ups:
Yes, please, sign up for games other than mine too! You'll notice that I signed up for Magicka right before I posted sign-ups for Neighbourhood, and I am still trying to decide whether to join Firefly too. I know it's getting to the end of the year, and I suspect some people are starting to feel a little burnt-out, but a little bit of activity now will help keep your hand in for the event that I assume is still going ahead in the new year. And I will once again point out that my game is fairly small and straightforward, so it might be a nice "light" game in between the big, complicated games like Doctor Who or Amy's game (that are definitely fun in their own right).
pollywog wrote:
Wikihow wrote:* Smile a lot! Give a gay girl a knowing "Hey, I'm a lesbian too!" smile.
I want to learn this smile, perfect it, and then go around smiling at lesbians and freaking them out.

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ConMan
Shepherd's Pie?
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby ConMan » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:36 pm UTC

EBWOP: And now I'll shut up about my game at least until it gets closer to running ;)
pollywog wrote:
Wikihow wrote:* Smile a lot! Give a gay girl a knowing "Hey, I'm a lesbian too!" smile.
I want to learn this smile, perfect it, and then go around smiling at lesbians and freaking them out.

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Adacore
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Adacore » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:28 am UTC

I'm basically out of mafia, but I signed up for Firefly because it's freaking Firefly, plus y'all seemed really enthusiastic about this 'new years event' thing to generate interest.

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ElectricHaze
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby ElectricHaze » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:28 pm UTC

Hmmmmm, I want to do Wizardry 3. I was all upset last time cause I was dishing out modkills left and right, and the stuff Aardvarki and I (Mostly Aardvarki) came up with for v3 is so cool. Treating spells per day as a stat make for some interesting spells and combos. Perhaps I should clean up the rules file and do some work on that and pull AArdvarki out of whatever dark non-xkcd related cave he's holed himself up in....

Anyone interested, or is that still too complicated a format to get you all super hyped about?
Who has never killed an hour? Not casually or without thought, but carefully: a premeditated murder of minutes.

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roband
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby roband » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:33 pm UTC

ElectricHaze wrote:too complicated


for me at least. I'm a simple chap though ;) most other people seem to get it better than I do.

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DaBigCheez
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby DaBigCheez » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:57 pm UTC

I will gladly have all your wizard-babies if Wizardry 3 is run. :3
existential_elevator wrote:It's like a jigsaw puzzle of Hitler pissing on Mother Theresa. No individual piece is offensive, but together...

If you think hot women have it easy because everyone wants to have sex at them, you're both wrong and also the reason you're wrong.

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greenlover
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby greenlover » Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:44 pm UTC

I loved Wizardry last time around, so I would certainly be up to another game of it. :)

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_infina_
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby _infina_ » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:34 am UTC

Amy's surprise
Spoiler:
I put the odds of FOAT being a Sapphire Scrooge at 10 to 1.
Spoiler:
keozen wrote:It took us exactly 3 pages to turn a discussion of a loved children's book series into smut...
TheGrammarBolshevik wrote:Only if your friends know what rhino dong smells like.

Malo mbwa mwitu

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Sungura
When life gives you banananas, make bananana bread
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Re: DISCUSSION THREAD/Gojoe canNEVER be trusted

Postby Sungura » Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:51 pm UTC

Amys Surprise
Spoiler:
I have no clue wrt the above spoiler. I sent out the roles and deal with actions as they are coming in via PM. I...haven't done squat with keeping up modnotes. I should uh..do that this weekend. The most complecated thing are the factions and making sure I count votes right, as there are negavoters and such...Oh. And we have masons now, that was triggered. This game this is just as much behind the scenes as in the thread, I swear. Gonna be one crazy ride....then again, this is supposed to be a classic crazy game... :twisted: Although I am sad we do not have a FPTSLBOOIA.
"Would you rather fight a Sungura-sized spider or 1000 spider-sized Sunguras?" -Zarq
she/<any gender neutral>/snug


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