Mafia Round 5

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cycoden
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby cycoden » Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:01 am UTC

Tigion wrote:Okay, solid point, but what if the mafia decide not to make a kill tonight?

We get another chance to lynch another mafioso tomorrow, and we get to assume my theory is correct until they do kill someone (which, if I'm correct, they won't be able to).
VectorZero wrote:SEXUAL INTERCOURSE DISGUSTS ME!
Spoiler:
Bulvox wrote:This is probably one of the few times that I'll agree with Cycoden on anything. I just wish that my brain worked like that.

Tigerlion
The Communist formerly known as Tigion
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby Tigerlion » Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:07 am UTC

No...what?
cycoden wrote:We get another chance to lynch another mafioso tomorrow, and we get to assume my theory is correct until they do kill someone (which, if I'm correct, they won't be able to).

Leaving alone the fact that you say we should follow you like you're Jesus Christ the Lord Our Savior, you're saying that we lynch willy-nilly until we can't lynch no more, 'cause the mafia won't be killing anyone. There is nothing preventing them from not making a kill, making spoon look like a godfather.

On a less hostile note, I may have just missed this part from skimming, but you say you didn't think gamer was the godfather, which he obviously wasn't. What makes you thing spoon is?

cycoden
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby cycoden » Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:07 am UTC

drconcon wrote:
When I role claimed and revealed MAJ was scum, very few of the players suspected him, actually. If I recall correctly, the players who suspected MAJ, were Sarr, Sleepygamer, Azrael001, TMP, and myself (I don't doubt I missed one or two others.)
Everyone who was suspicious of MAJ had good reason to be, besides Azrael001 who was trying to distance himself from MAJ.
If I were making a gamble and trying to distance myself from MAJ I wouldn't have said I investigated MAJ and found him to be scum. It's a given MAJ would have been lynched from that...
Besides, why would I think I even needed to distance myself from MAJ? I think MAJ's accusation of me would have been enough to convince the town that we were not working together; saying I investigated MAJ would not have been a gamble, it would have been definite.

I'd consider that the number of players you've listed are quite a lot in the context of establishing a player as suspicious. I never said you needed to distance yourself from MAJ, I merely said that you saw MAJ was considered suspicious by a number of players, and was likely to get lynched, and took the opportunity to stake yourself a role claim.

drconcon wrote:Now.
I voted for TMP because there was the slightest bit of evidence against him, and you must admit, we had nothing to go on that day...

Thats funny, I recall you said this earlier:
drconcon wrote:Answering Blast's question, no I cannot explain why I found Azrael001 and TMP suspicious. Those were pretty much just shot's in the dark, but this does mean my Scum-dar is pretty accurate :D

(my emphasis). OK, so you did use the word "slightest", but slightest is still more than "none".
VectorZero wrote:SEXUAL INTERCOURSE DISGUSTS ME!
Spoiler:
Bulvox wrote:This is probably one of the few times that I'll agree with Cycoden on anything. I just wish that my brain worked like that.

cycoden
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby cycoden » Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:18 am UTC

Tigion wrote:No...what?
cycoden wrote:We get another chance to lynch another mafioso tomorrow, and we get to assume my theory is correct until they do kill someone (which, if I'm correct, they won't be able to).

Leaving alone the fact that you say we should follow you like you're Jesus Christ the Lord Our Savior, you're saying that we lynch willy-nilly until we can't lynch no more, 'cause the mafia won't be killing anyone. There is nothing preventing them from not making a kill, making spoon look like a godfather.

On a less hostile note, I may have just missed this part from skimming, but you say you didn't think gamer was the godfather, which he obviously wasn't. What makes you thing spoon is?


Well, we can always vote No Lynch, if that concerns you. All I'm trying to say is that jail spoon = no mafia night kill.

cycoden wrote:I believe this because, before TMP (the mafia traitor, who knew the names of all the scum) essentially revealed himself, he had voted for TINS, and sleepygamer (who we now know was in fact the other day cop) found TINS to be pro-town.


It makes sense that the last person that TMP (the mafia traitor) voted, before requesting to be lynched, was scum. This was Spoon. Therefore, I think Spoon is scum. Since Sleepy (a confirmed day cop) found that Spoon was pro-town, Spoon must be the godfather.

My apologies if you felt I came off somewhat pompous, I had a lot of points to cover, and I think this is important. Plus I have a headache :(
VectorZero wrote:SEXUAL INTERCOURSE DISGUSTS ME!
Spoiler:
Bulvox wrote:This is probably one of the few times that I'll agree with Cycoden on anything. I just wish that my brain worked like that.

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There-is-no-spoon
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby There-is-no-spoon » Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:53 am UTC

Ok you base my being Godfather of the fact that TMP accused me. But let us look at this a bit closer. On P20 TMP accuses me and Azr immediately agrees with TMP on page 21(top) and Nmsjohn agrees and vote for me. So two votes and the accusation is going smoothly. Then Sleepy defends me and suddenly Azr votes for TMP. Now TMP wriggles out of being lynched (by voting for himself) and DOES NOT CONTINUE with his drive to lynch me.

We know he is the mafia traitor and if I was the GF then he had no choice but to get me lynched because he would then have shown himself as traitor to the other Mafia players. But he does not. He backs off with only accusations. TMP is too an experienced player, if he wanted to get me lynched, he would have achieved his goal. I was already under suspicion by (right word?) a number of players.

TMP would also have understood that this game will be decided on numbers. Even if all the Mafia members are killed, then we Townies still need to find the Mafia supporters. So he would have known that every mafia-kill would have counted. He must have seen me and Sleepy as Townies, otherwise it would have made a big difference in his opinion who to get lynched.

Remember also that the Mafia or Mafia hit man did not kill him, Blast the Vigilante did. So the mafia still did not suspect him as traitor by the time he was killed.

cycoden
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby cycoden » Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:46 pm UTC

Here is my promised analysis of drconcon:

Its interesting to compare his quotes with Azrael's. I do realise that part of the reason for the correlation may be they could share similar timezones, but drconcon was often remarkably quick to follow azrael's lead, and now he tries to say he finds Azrael suspicious

Here they are voting for martinw:
Azrael001 wrote:I agree, let's lynch him to find out.

Vote MartinW


drconcon wrote:
Azrael001 wrote:I agree, let's lynch him to find out.

Vote MartinW



Hmm.. That seems a bit eager to me... But on the other hand, there isn't much of... anything, to go on right now.

Vote: MartinW


He finds Bulvox suspicious...
drconcon wrote:Ookay, sorry for the double post.
Regarding Bulvox, I definitely see the possibility of him being scum. I'm not quite at the point of lynching... yet.


But then decides to vote for Azrael when it is almost certain that Bulvox would be lynched.
drconcon wrote:Hmm, Margi actually brings up an interesting point. I honestly didn't find Bulvox that suspicious, but now I'm leaning towards Azrael001...

Vote: Azrael001

For now, at least...


drconcon wrote:See? DO YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU LYNCH PEOPLE FOR SILLY MISTAKES?

I strongly suggest we investigate Azrael001 today.

Hmm. Since you were supposedly a cop, why didn't you investigate him yourself?

This time you take the lead, that Azrael follows:
drconcon wrote:I'm sorry, but mbrownmx's offering to even vote for himself seemed like a last ditch effort to get suspicion away from him! :P

I thought that was important to point out. Seeing as I'm stoned.


Azrael001 wrote:I would like to point out that I was right about Bulvox. I don't want to vote yet as I need to reread the thread.

For now strong FoS on mbrownmx


Azrael is trying to distance himself from his fellow scum:
Azrael001 wrote:Sarr never really blipped for me. Kells has, though I don't know where, and I don't suspect her. MaJ and Jay seem the most suspicious to me.


So is drconcon:
drconcon wrote:Oh, right. I forgot my actual reason to post...

I'd have to say MAJ and kellsbells are sticking out the most for me. As with Azrael001, I don't know what it is about kellsbells that makes me more watchful, but I just am.
And for me, MAJ just seemed rather unsure with his accusations. Maybe trying to "create confusion" with overloading us with accusations or something :P

I'm going on no sleep and I'm hungover so if this doesn't make any sense... You're probably right.


You roleclaim, and Azrael is quick to join the vote against one of his own:
drconcon wrote:WELL.

I went with a gut feeling and - it turned out alright.
I investigated MAJ and discovered he was mafia. I will start looking over the thread to see who seemed to be working with MAJ, I wont be done until tomorrow though.
I also take it I will be killed tonight, so if the jailkeeper wants to protect me? :P

Vote: MAJ

Azrael001 wrote:I don't think that anyone thinks it's a good idea to role claim cop when they are not. I am going to trust him.

Unvote: Tigion
Vote: MAJ


Azreal votes for P&C, you vote for P&C
Azrael001 wrote:I'm inclined to agree with Martin et al. at this point. Also the game needs to get going again...

Vote Poprocks and coke

drconcon wrote:Okay, now that I see there are more players voting for Poprocks and Coke I think I shall vote too. I think I will retract this soon enough, though.

Vote: Poprocks and Coke


Azrael FoSs Sleepy:
Azrael001 wrote:Bleh...

I didn't remember that there was already a cop role claim, likewise I forgot about the Mafia supporters. That's what you get when a game dies for a few days...

So yeah, I'm going to have to

Unvote TMP

Now it looks like I'm vote hopping... Sigh. I still stand by my former statement about cops role claiming. It gets things going in a way that is not a random lynch. But that is neither here nor there...

We now have a choice between Cycoden and Sleepygamer, of the two Sleepy seems much more suspicious, and he is the only one new enough that he might make the mistake of false role claiming. I'm not going to vote yet, I want to see how things go. For now

FOS Sleepgamer.


Surprise! You think sleepy is scum too:
drconcon wrote:I'm not really posting to say much. Just that I am here.
I truly think Sleepygamer is scum and the town has a much better chance if we lynch Sleepy soon, if not tonight.
I don't think Cycoden would be foolish enough to false-roleclaim being the cop in this situation.


And you expect us to believe that you found Azrael 'suspicious':
drconcon wrote:Answering Blast's question, no I cannot explain why I found Azrael001 and TMP suspicious. Those were pretty much just shot's in the dark, but this does mean my Scum-dar is pretty accurate :D

And...

I am still not entirely sure how lynching scum makes me scum?


Also, I don't recall Azrael ever defending himself against your accusations. Perhaps he knew you'd never follow through with them?
VectorZero wrote:SEXUAL INTERCOURSE DISGUSTS ME!
Spoiler:
Bulvox wrote:This is probably one of the few times that I'll agree with Cycoden on anything. I just wish that my brain worked like that.

cycoden
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby cycoden » Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:48 pm UTC

There-is-no-spoon wrote:Ok you base my being Godfather of the fact that TMP accused me. But let us look at this a bit closer. On P20 TMP accuses me and Azr immediately agrees with TMP on page 21(top) and Nmsjohn agrees and vote for me. So two votes and the accusation is going smoothly. Then Sleepy defends me and suddenly Azr votes for TMP. Now TMP wriggles out of being lynched (by voting for himself) and DOES NOT CONTINUE with his drive to lynch me.


I agree it wasn't straight forward - I think TMP changed his strategy - but I don't think its relevant. The bottom line is that TMP strongly fingered you before essentially outing himself as the mafia traitor.

There-is-no-spoon wrote:We know he is the mafia traitor and if I was the GF then he had no choice but to get me lynched because he would then have shown himself as traitor to the other Mafia players. But he does not. He backs off with only accusations. TMP is too an experienced player, if he wanted to get me lynched, he would have achieved his goal. I was already under suspicion by (right word?) a number of players.

Remember, the mafia traitor was very heavily restricted in what he could say, and that he felt there was nothing more he could add under the rules, and the best way to convince people he was the mafia traitor (and therefore his previous suspicions should be considered in light of the fact he knows the true identities of the mafia).

There-is-no-spoon wrote:TMP would also have understood that this game will be decided on numbers. Even if all the Mafia members are killed, then we Townies still need to find the Mafia supporters. So he would have known that every mafia-kill would have counted. He must have seen me and Sleepy as Townies, otherwise it would have made a big difference in his opinion who to get lynched.

Remember also that the Mafia or Mafia hit man did not kill him, Blast the Vigilante did. So the mafia still did not suspect him as traitor by the time he was killed.


In fact, I suspect this is precisely the reason the mafia didn't kill him. How could we be certain he was the traitor while he was still alive? His death was necessary to determine whether his suspicions should be taken seriously. We should not let his death be in vain.

But spoon, look on the bright side. I'm not asking for you to be lynched, I'm merely suggesting you enjoy a pleasant stay in the xkcd village penitentiary until the mafia kill again. It has cable! In any case, its exactly what you asked for:
There-is-no-spoon wrote:@Blast: Yeah, I'd like to be jailed.


I won't be able to post as often for the next few days, I've got a busy week ahead of me. I'll try and check in daily. I certainly won't have time to undertake similar detailed analyses!
And has anyone seen jakeyizle - should the mods consider replacing him?
VectorZero wrote:SEXUAL INTERCOURSE DISGUSTS ME!
Spoiler:
Bulvox wrote:This is probably one of the few times that I'll agree with Cycoden on anything. I just wish that my brain worked like that.

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Silknor
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby Silknor » Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:59 pm UTC

Jakeyizle hasn't been on in a while, and Sarr has to leave. I haven't gotten any responses on replacements yet. If needed the lynch threshold may be lowered by 1 since 2 are inactive.
Nikc wrote:Silknor is the JJ Abrams of mafia modding

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There-is-no-spoon
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby There-is-no-spoon » Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:12 pm UTC

Nah, read P21 and 22. After your post there were enough momentum for TMP to get me lynched. It was between me and Sleepy and he chose to let me go. TMP does not need a role claim there, he doesn't need it anyway, he is just good enough as a player. Besides we did not believe Sleepy, why would we have believed him?

And you are missing my point on the numbers.

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InstinctSage
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby InstinctSage » Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:29 am UTC

It's late in the game, but I've followed this one from Day 1. Unless you'd prefer to wipe out jake and Sarr and drop the lynch count, I'll be happy to take one of their places. Silknor or another Mod may choose which position I take.
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Silknor
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby Silknor » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:22 am UTC

Instinct, you'll replace one of them, which one I don't know yet. If we get another replacement player then I don't need to change anything. If we only have one I'm not sure yet which we'll replace and if the other will be modkilled yet or just left inactive for now. Going to talk to other mods about it.
Nikc wrote:Silknor is the JJ Abrams of mafia modding

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drconcon
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby drconcon » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:50 pm UTC

Hum-de-dum...
This game has all but died. Sooo, I feel there is no other choice at the moment.

Vote: Cycoden
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That's when the raptors get yah!


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drconcon
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby drconcon » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:51 pm UTC

EBWOP:
I will post my answers to Cycoden's questions later today. I am unusually strapped for time right now.
Belial wrote:Never assume you're safe.

That's when the raptors get yah!


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There-is-no-spoon
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby There-is-no-spoon » Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:45 pm UTC

Live players:

Gojoe
MartinW
Jakeyizle
There-is-no-spoon
Tigion
sarr
drconcon
Megatriorchis
Upsilon
Poprocks and coke
Cycoden

Hope I am right?
But also notice the percentage "lurkers", roughly more than half are not really contributing. :(

Megatriorchis
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby Megatriorchis » Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:47 pm UTC

It's obvious that we should lynch who TMP hinted at. :|
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There-is-no-spoon
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby There-is-no-spoon » Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:22 pm UTC

The Moo Prophet wrote:You are right, Azrael001, that telling someone you are voting to put pressure on them defeats the purpose, but I wasn't voting to put pressure on P&C. I voted for him because I truly believe that the remaining mafia members are among those that have been lurking and making minimal contributions. I want to lynch P&C today, and if he turns out to be mafia, then I think Megatriorchis will be a good choice for tomorrow. If P&C isn't mafia, then I will abandon my crusade against the lurkers, but mark me, that is where we will find them.


QED

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drconcon
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby drconcon » Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:53 pm UTC

I do believe this here game is dead.
Belial wrote:Never assume you're safe.

That's when the raptors get yah!


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Blast
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby Blast » Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:23 pm UTC

Clearly what this game needs is for me to come back to life as an angry otter wielding zombie that eats the brains of people who are too indecisive or lurky to actually vote for someone and move the game along. I will eat their children, and I will eat their children's children. It will be a family celebration to cannibalize those with hesitation, a blood filled caucus to bury the cautious. Witty may be fun but bullsh- gets it done. Only in America! Now get out there and vote!
My name is Vadinho. I'm an onion.

Tigerlion
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby Tigerlion » Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:43 pm UTC

Alright, lemme check to see who TMP was going after, I've been quite detained as of late, with what the broken computer.

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There-is-no-spoon
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby There-is-no-spoon » Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:21 am UTC

I think the game is basically dying because we have such a large percentage of players contributing very little. Both Mafia and Town also tend to kill those that contribute, so every night we have less input.

(The mod should bring Blast back to kill the player that lurks the most every day, he is not on a side just fights lurking, me thinks :D )

I believe the Mafia is amongst those lurkers but to find them would be very difficult because so many (Mafia and Town) lurk.

I'm posting the live players again:

Gojoe
MartinW
Jakeyizle
There-is-no-spoon
Tigion
sarr
drconcon
Megatriorchis
Upsilon
Poprocks and coke
Cycoden

and here are the roles still living:

Mafia:
GF
Goon
2 Mafia supporting Townies.

Town:
JK
Hobo
One shot Hitman.
One shot cop now Townie.
3 Townies.

So Town has 7 players and the Mafia 4. But who matches where....?

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There-is-no-spoon
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby There-is-no-spoon » Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:27 am UTC

Also I think replacing a player would be a problem because non-players have read the spoilers. :roll:

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MartinW
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby MartinW » Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:38 am UTC

I think we should get this game going. We should focus on the issue of the two cops. We've got at least one confirmed mafia [supporter] there. I think we should lynch one of them.

About jailing spoon, I don't really know whether that's a good idea. I think the JK should decide for himself who to jail. Because the mafia haven't got a hitman he can claim as soon as he locked on to the Godfather. But lynching willy-nilly then would be bad. We could lynch a lot of townies by accident and then the mafia supporters would have a majority. And a mafia win.

So to get the game moving: I think Drconcon is the most suspicious.

vote: Drconcon

cycoden
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby cycoden » Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:08 am UTC

I still think jailing spoon is a good idea. Obviously we should take care with our lynches - I think we'll have some good leads from TMP to consider tomorrow...

Anyway, enough stuffing round.

Vote: drconcon
VectorZero wrote:SEXUAL INTERCOURSE DISGUSTS ME!
Spoiler:
Bulvox wrote:This is probably one of the few times that I'll agree with Cycoden on anything. I just wish that my brain worked like that.

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drconcon
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby drconcon » Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:04 pm UTC

How can you vote for me?
I actually lynch the town a scum, and now I'm being killed for it?
Spoon has been found innocent, but Cycoden is saying he thinks he should be watched.
Are you sure Cycoden isn't just trying to get an innocent to be guarded for the night, so the mafia's real target (whomever that may be) doesn't get jailed, thus giving an easy kill for the mafia?
I don't know what might be going on here, but I am the real cop.
I'll stick with my vote for Cycoden, thank you.
Belial wrote:Never assume you're safe.

That's when the raptors get yah!


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Silknor
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby Silknor » Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:15 pm UTC

The mods have voted to impose a 60 hour time limit on this day, starting now. If a lynch has not occurred by 9 PM PST Friday (3 AM GMT Saturday), then whoever has the most votes will be lynched. Ties will be broken randomly.
Nikc wrote:Silknor is the JJ Abrams of mafia modding

Tigerlion
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby Tigerlion » Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:42 pm UTC

Here we go, I delved back into the thread a bit, and found this.

Spoiler:
The Moo Prophet wrote:Too much of a good thing I guess. I maintain that the lurkiest, lowest content posters are the most suspicious. The worst I could come up with is Poprocks and Coke. The following is everything he has posted in this thread.

Confirm



Day One Starts

Played Rounds two and three here, and I'm playing on match on mafiascum

poprocks and coke wrote:This

michaelandjimi wrote:Hang on, Bulvox is also looking a little suspicious.

Bulvox wrote:in the interests of being random i took the liberty of using random.org to see who we should pressure first. unfortunately it gave us one of the newbs as our first target, Cycoden, with sarr being number 2, and Azrael001 coming in third. interestingly enough i showed up as 18th.

using the random integer generator i've decided to vote Azrael001 to start things off.
vote: Azrael001
Um, this post is rather odd. For some reason he felt the need to tell us who was each result on random.org, and that in itself makes no sense. Why not just say that random.org told him to vote Azrael, and cut to the chase? Is he trying to send a message to his buddies? Notice also that he didn't say why he didn't vote for Sarr.

Bulvox wrote:meh, i was just toning down the joke voting against him, and i wanted to see how you reacted. i haven't really gotten a good read on how you play the game yet. also, une see is right, just because we're vocal, and active players doesn't mean that we got any cool roles. i'm just a plain townie.
I hear that stating that you are a plain townie is a bit suspicious.

Furthermore, the "joke voting" he mentioned (I don't want to overload you with quotes, rest assured they occurred and you can look if you want), was done supposedly at random and therefore he did not back himself up with reasons. Also, vote-jumping is a good sign of Mafia earlier in the game. I reckon the people he voted for are probably innocent, but they shouldn't be cleared yet.

This might seem like vote jumping, but I didn't really read the thread too thoroughly earlier:

Unvote: mbrownmx
Vote: Bulvox


My FoS is still trained on him though.


And this

I'll explain each. The FoS of Bulvox is for his multiple vote-jumps and just general activity... it seems like he's trying to appear so intent on the game that people won't think he's lurking scum. In the post MaJ quoted, Bulvox says directly that active players didn't necessarily get cool roles. Seems like a defense; he didn't need to mention that.


These make me suspicious of Bulvox.



EBWOP: I don't think I'm ready to vote yet, but FoS: Bulvox


Because of my earlier suspicions and bulvox's hard to believe defense

vote: bulvox


What do you mean what do I have to say for myself? whenever big things happen I'm never on. when I am there's nothing to say. I'm not that good at finding scum, so there's not much I can do.


Low content, one vote, 4 posts since the game started, his 'long' post contained 9 words of his own. People have been saying over and over that we have been unsuccessful at detecting scum, and I think it is because they are lurking.

Vote: Poprocks and Coke


TMP's suspicion of PR&C. So, the mafia traitor is gonna go after the real mafians. Unless someone has another idea, I think I shall Vote: PR&C

He's probably had other suspicions, but this is a pretty big post of his.

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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby There-is-no-spoon » Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:47 pm UTC

While we are thowing ideas around and because I believe the Mafia are amongst the lurkers, please tell me what you think of this:

Upsilon contributed very little during the game but this is his response to Drconcon's claim that MAJ is investigated and Mafia:
Upsilon wrote:So either we trust drconcon and lynch MAJ, or we trust MAJ and lynch drconcon...

I'll let the better mafia players sort this out.

"I'll let the better mafia players sort this out" bothered me the first time I saw it and still does, I just cannot work out why. So he says he is not voting, then votes anyway after majority was reached:
Upsilon wrote:Vote: MAJ

for teh lulz

When questioned why he voted after the time:
Upsilon wrote:
cycoden wrote:The most obvious thing was some people jumping on to the bandwagon after the hammer had already fallen. Strikes me as a little desperate (Upsilon...)

It was a joke. The mods hadn't updated and he was already one vote over the minimum, so I decided to vote as a joke.

Why else would I vote for someone that royally screwed?

Again "Why else would I vote for someone that royally screwed?" seems a strange question.

His whole reaction of MAJ's accusation and lynching strikes me as odd and his major lurking thereafter also.

Any ideas about this from someone else?

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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby drconcon » Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:51 pm UTC

Tigon brings up a very good point...
I honestly don't think Cycoden is scum. Maybe a townie with a strange plan, or a supporter.
I think we can trust TMP, though. We can see what happens tonight, and I will decide if I'm ready to vote for Cycoden. (my vote was more or less to try and revive the game.)

Unvote
Vote: PR&C
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That's when the raptors get yah!


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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby Tigerlion » Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:53 pm UTC

There-is-no-spoon wrote:While we are thowing ideas around and because I believe the Mafia are amongst the lurkers, please tell me what you think of this:

Upsilon contributed very little during the game but this is his response to Drconcon's claim that MAJ is investigated and Mafia:
Upsilon wrote:So either we trust drconcon and lynch MAJ, or we trust MAJ and lynch drconcon...

I'll let the better mafia players sort this out.

"I'll let the better mafia players sort this out" bothered me the first time I saw it and still does, I just cannot work out why. So he says he is not voting, then votes anyway after majority was reached:
Upsilon wrote:Vote: MAJ

for teh lulz

When questioned why he voted after the time:
Upsilon wrote:
cycoden wrote:The most obvious thing was some people jumping on to the bandwagon after the hammer had already fallen. Strikes me as a little desperate (Upsilon...)

It was a joke. The mods hadn't updated and he was already one vote over the minimum, so I decided to vote as a joke.

Why else would I vote for someone that royally screwed?

Again "Why else would I vote for someone that royally screwed?" seems a strange question.

His whole reaction of MAJ's accusation and lynching strikes me as odd and his major lurking thereafter also.

Any ideas about this from someone else?

You might be on to something, I don't really know. I'd have to go back and analyze Upslion.

Right now, I think whoever TMP accused is our best bet.

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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby cycoden » Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:05 am UTC

drconcon wrote:How can you vote for me?
I actually lynch the town a scum, and now I'm being killed for it?

No, I'm voting for you because you are lying about being a cop, and therefore are almost certainly scum.

Evidence for this I have presented in my previous posts. The tl;dr version is:
  • Drconcon changed his vote to Azrael just before the hammer fell on Bulvox early in the game
  • Strongly recommended the investigation of Azrael shortly after - if he really was a cop, he could have done it himself.
  • Azrael never acted threatened by his accusations, as if he knew they weren't serious somehow...
  • Nonetheless, he had a very similar voting/suspicion pattern to Azrael (confirmed [dead] mafia hitman) throughout the game.
  • He kept mentioning how the scum would surely kill him - but that hasn't happened :P
  • Then he claims he found Azreal suspicious after his death, despite having followed his lead many times earlier in the game.

drconcon wrote:Spoon has been found innocent,

Incorrect (and deliberately misleading, I suspect). Spoon was found to be pro-town, not innocent. Therefore, spoon could be a mafia supporter, mafia godfather or a non-mafia role.

drconcon wrote:but Cycoden is saying he thinks he should be watched.
Are you sure Cycoden isn't just trying to get an innocent to be guarded for the night, so the mafia's real target (whomever that may be) doesn't get jailed, thus giving an easy kill for the mafia?

Do you really think TMP would have gone to this much effort if TINS wasn't scum? (TMP's final post before voting for himself in spoiler)

Spoiler:
The Moo Prophet wrote:fine, you want someone suspicious to vote for? Here's what I've found.

there-is-no-spoon wrote:Stating that you are a plain townie sounds a lot like overcompensating. You might have something there MAJ.

He tags along with MAJ on page 6, then later, he states that he is a townie which, as he said "Sounds a lot like overcompensating"
There-is-no-spoon wrote:I am part of the Town, therefore I care, a non-Townie would not.



He also makes passing defenses of MaJ yesterday,
There-is-no-spoon wrote:It does seem like using very little to jump to Sarr's defense, me thinks.

(This is him trying to keep suspicion on Sarr)

not saying anything outright, but continually warning us that being too hasty would be bad, and that we should take our time. Once the votes begin rolling again aginst MaJ, he casts his, becomming #6.


All of the following were on page 15
There-is-no-spoon wrote:today is a crucial day for the game.

There-is-no-spoon wrote:The Town can really not afford to lynch another Townie now.

There-is-no-spoon wrote:in a nutshell, we better make sure we lynch a mafia tonight.

There-is-no-spoon wrote:I don't agree with you saying "and hurry up the lynching".



Finally, on page 18,
There-is-no-spoon wrote:I have the problem that I have to go out for a long while and now I do not know what to think. Please let us not lynch a Townie tonight. I am going to leave my vote for now....but guys please make sure.

An emotional appeal to our fear of lynching an other townie.

And finally, on page 13, a version of the "last night was so terrible" scum tell.
There-is-no-spoon wrote:I just realized that we started with 9 Vanilla Townies and we have 5 left :shock:


Sleepygamer, on the other hand, was one of the first voices against MaJ, even if not one of the strongest. Mafia rarely are the first to attack one of their own unless the victim has made a grave error revealing himself as mafia, or, in this round, if they (the mafia) believe that person is the traitor.

Unvote: Poprocks and Coke
Vote: There-is-no-spoon

drconcon wrote:I don't know what might be going on here, but I am the real cop.

I'm pretty sure I do know whats going on here. You're playing a very dangerous game drconcon, and you've been busted. You are not, and never were a cop.

Spoiler:
There-is-no-spoon wrote:While we are thowing ideas around and because I believe the Mafia are amongst the lurkers, please tell me what you think of this:

Upsilon contributed very little during the game but this is his response to Drconcon's claim that MAJ is investigated and Mafia:
Upsilon wrote:So either we trust drconcon and lynch MAJ, or we trust MAJ and lynch drconcon...

I'll let the better mafia players sort this out.

"I'll let the better mafia players sort this out" bothered me the first time I saw it and still does, I just cannot work out why. So he says he is not voting, then votes anyway after majority was reached:
Upsilon wrote:Vote: MAJ

for teh lulz

When questioned why he voted after the time:
Upsilon wrote:
cycoden wrote:The most obvious thing was some people jumping on to the bandwagon after the hammer had already fallen. Strikes me as a little desperate (Upsilon...)

It was a joke. The mods hadn't updated and he was already one vote over the minimum, so I decided to vote as a joke.

Why else would I vote for someone that royally screwed?

Again "Why else would I vote for someone that royally screwed?" seems a strange question.

His whole reaction of MAJ's accusation and lynching strikes me as odd and his major lurking thereafter also.

Any ideas about this from someone else?

My ideas on this are that we should start with the lurkers that were explicitly named by TMP. Don't you agree that would make more sense?
VectorZero wrote:SEXUAL INTERCOURSE DISGUSTS ME!
Spoiler:
Bulvox wrote:This is probably one of the few times that I'll agree with Cycoden on anything. I just wish that my brain worked like that.

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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby cycoden » Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:47 am UTC

On Spoon. His posts today are intriguing:

On my suspicion of drconcon
There-is-no-spoon wrote:Drconcon was asked a number of times if he was a cop. If he spoke then, we would not have lynched Sleepy.

Essentially supporting my suspicion of drconcon

Then Blast notices that TMP put a big FoS on Spoon:
blast wrote:In TMP's last big post he attacks There is no spoon. After sleepy investigated Spoon and found him pro-town Azrael and Drconcon jumped on him and voted for TMP before TMP voted for himself. It's possible Azrael (and Drconcon if he is mafia) were sacrificing TMP, but the mafia don't normally bandwagon their own members. On the other hand, they would bandwagon TMP if they figured out he was the traitor, and if TMP revealed that he was the traitor by attacking (pro-town revealed) Spoon, that makes Spoon the godfather.

I'm not sure of this but I thought it would make for interesting discussion. We shouldn't lynch spoon today, but maybe we should jail him tonight.


Spoon agrees he should be jailed, and tries to say that TMP was being confusing
There-is-no-spoon wrote:@Blast: Yeah, I'd like to be jailed. That will protect me from a Mafia kill. The whole game lost a bit of focus with TMP's antics. All I can think of was that TMP realized that Sleepy was talking the truth and wanted to protect him, so disrupting the train of thought was a way, I don't know what he was thinking. What confuses me the most, was that he suddenly stopped his "please lynch me" phase as well and then voted for Sleepy. *confusion*

Just one point on your suggestion of jailing. If the mafia kill did not happen, like the second night, then the JK still does not know if it is because he/she jailed the target, the killer or the GF. So the mafia might target me anyway just to lay the blame on me.

I think TMP put focus on precisely the people TMP wanted focus on (presumably scum).

Spoon then says jail me - but clearly if there is no night kill it must be the mafia trying to get me killed.

In reply to Spoon's post I post:
cycoden wrote:Well, hopefully we can just keep you jailed, and the mafia won't bother to kill again for the rest of the game... 8)


Suddenly, Spoon now percieves me as a threat and posts:
There-is-no-spoon wrote:
There-is-no-spoon wrote:I have always believed that cycoden is a Townie but now I start wondering.

Look at the "scoreboard". Drconcon's cop claim lead to the lynching of scum and leading Blast to killing another Scum. The cycoden cop-claim lead to lynching of a Townie and a smart one too, he was one of the first ones to suspect MAJ.

I have noticed that cycoden did not vote for Sleepy. I wonder if he did expect trouble today? Sarr pointed out the first post is his attack on Drconcon. At first it made sense to me, but now reading other players comments, I feel uneasy about it.

The thing that bothers me the most is this:

cycoden wrote:Personally, I'd rather lynch a suspected genuine mafia rather than a mafia-wannabe right now, but lynching Sleepy will (unless drconcon is doing something strange) validate my roleclaim.


Vote: ninja


This post was made after a majority votes were reached, perhaps an explanation why he did not vote. But the thing is only the Mafia members know who the mafia are. How did he KNOW that Sleepy was not a "genuine mafia"



After I rebut spoons suspicions, spoon posts:
Spoiler:
There-is-no-spoon wrote:Ok you base my being Godfather of the fact that TMP accused me. But let us look at this a bit closer. On P20 TMP accuses me and Azr immediately agrees with TMP on page 21(top) and Nmsjohn agrees and vote for me. So two votes and the accusation is going smoothly. Then Sleepy defends me and suddenly Azr votes for TMP. Now TMP wriggles out of being lynched (by voting for himself) and DOES NOT CONTINUE with his drive to lynch me.

We know he is the mafia traitor and if I was the GF then he had no choice but to get me lynched because he would then have shown himself as traitor to the other Mafia players. But he does not. He backs off with only accusations. TMP is too an experienced player, if he wanted to get me lynched, he would have achieved his goal. I was already under suspicion by (right word?) a number of players.

TMP would also have understood that this game will be decided on numbers. Even if all the Mafia members are killed, then we Townies still need to find the Mafia supporters. So he would have known that every mafia-kill would have counted. He must have seen me and Sleepy as Townies, otherwise it would have made a big difference in his opinion who to get lynched.

Remember also that the Mafia or Mafia hit man did not kill him, Blast the Vigilante did. So the mafia still did not suspect him as traitor by the time he was killed.


There-is-no-spoon wrote:Nah, read P21 and 22. After your post there were enough momentum for TMP to get me lynched. It was between me and Sleepy and he chose to let me go. TMP does not need a role claim there, he doesn't need it anyway, he is just good enough as a player. Besides we did not believe Sleepy, why would we have believed him?

And you are missing my point on the numbers.

A lot of words to try and convince us that TMP didn't really mean to find spoon suspicious.

Funnily enough, spoon thinks that TMP's other suspicions re lurkers are valid:
There-is-no-spoon wrote:
The Moo Prophet wrote:You are right, Azrael001, that telling someone you are voting to put pressure on them defeats the purpose, but I wasn't voting to put pressure on P&C. I voted for him because I truly believe that the remaining mafia members are among those that have been lurking and making minimal contributions. I want to lynch P&C today, and if he turns out to be mafia, then I think Megatriorchis will be a good choice for tomorrow. If P&C isn't mafia, then I will abandon my crusade against the lurkers, but mark me, that is where we will find them.


QED


There-is-no-spoon wrote:I think the game is basically dying because we have such a large percentage of players contributing very little. Both Mafia and Town also tend to kill those that contribute, so every night we have less input.

I believe the Mafia is amongst those lurkers but to find them would be very difficult because so many (Mafia and Town) lurk.

Spoon is basically saying: I'm not a lurker, therefore I'm not scum, and then diverts suspicion to a lurker not explicitly named by TMP:
Spoiler:
There-is-no-spoon wrote:While we are thowing ideas around and because I believe the Mafia are amongst the lurkers, please tell me what you think of this:

Upsilon contributed very little during the game but this is his response to Drconcon's claim that MAJ is investigated and Mafia:
Upsilon wrote:So either we trust drconcon and lynch MAJ, or we trust MAJ and lynch drconcon...

I'll let the better mafia players sort this out.

"I'll let the better mafia players sort this out" bothered me the first time I saw it and still does, I just cannot work out why. So he says he is not voting, then votes anyway after majority was reached:
Upsilon wrote:Vote: MAJ

for teh lulz

When questioned why he voted after the time:
Upsilon wrote:
cycoden wrote:The most obvious thing was some people jumping on to the bandwagon after the hammer had already fallen. Strikes me as a little desperate (Upsilon...)

It was a joke. The mods hadn't updated and he was already one vote over the minimum, so I decided to vote as a joke.

Why else would I vote for someone that royally screwed?

Again "Why else would I vote for someone that royally screwed?" seems a strange question.

His whole reaction of MAJ's accusation and lynching strikes me as odd and his major lurking thereafter also.

Any ideas about this from someone else?


Anyway, I'm keeping my vote on drconcon, although I'm not adverse to seeing anyone named by TMP hung.
VectorZero wrote:SEXUAL INTERCOURSE DISGUSTS ME!
Spoiler:
Bulvox wrote:This is probably one of the few times that I'll agree with Cycoden on anything. I just wish that my brain worked like that.

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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby Silknor » Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:51 pm UTC

2 Votes for Drconcon

2 Votes for Poprocks and Coke

6 to lynch.
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby There-is-no-spoon » Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:45 pm UTC

Not sure if I want to get involved in this much further, just this:

Be very careful of this wonderful paved path Cycoden is leading us. Let us consider a worst case scenario:

Currently the numbers represent 4 Mafia and 7 Town.
Tonight we lynch a Townie and the JK duly follows the order he was given and jails me.
This leaves the path open for the Mafia to kill another Townie (but not me, rather a power role Townie).

Tomorrow we are at 4 Mafia and 5 Town.
It is not quite lynch or loose (but close) because the two remaining Mafia might not know who the pro-mafia Townies are and visa versa. This situation should force the Hitman to use his shot. (Doubtless Cycoden will have some instructions for him as well), but with only the information which is connected to TMP, as Cycoden disallows any discussion outside that train of thought. By now the Mafia are starting to become in the majority and could easily get another Townie lynched.

That night the hitman misses or hits a mafia and JK jails right or wrong, the mafia might end the night with a clear majority as mistakes of the two "night Townies" will give them that.

And guess what is next? Yes, then the mafia hunt and seek Townies to lynch. Also because they have have the majority they can roleclaim and end the game.

These are the numbers I talked about which TMP would have worked out, because he is experienced and smart. Therefore if he thought I was scum, then I would have been lynched.

Cycoden's deliberate attempt to control this game as well as the fact that one of the claimed cops must be pro-mafia leads me to this:

Vote Cycoden

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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby cycoden » Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:21 pm UTC

There-is-no-spoon wrote:Not sure if I want to get involved in this much further, just this:

Be very careful of this wonderful paved path Cycoden is leading us. Let us consider a worst case scenario:


Translation: Lets consider a situation far removed from reality.
There-is-no-spoon wrote:Currently the numbers represent 4 Mafia and 7 Town.
Tonight we lynch a Townie and the JK duly follows the order he was given and jails me.

It's a recommendation. If the jailkeeper thinks my logic is flawed, then (s)he should do what (s)he thinks is best.

There-is-no-spoon wrote:This leaves the path open for the Mafia to kill another Townie (but not me, rather a power role Townie).

If you are in jail, I doubt this will happen. I could be wrong, but I've yet to hear a different interpretation from someone who isn't suspicious regarding TMP's suspicion of you (please post if you do!)

There-is-no-spoon wrote:It is not quite lynch or loose (but close) because the two remaining Mafia might not know who the pro-mafia Townies are and visa versa. This situation should force the Hitman to use his shot. (Doubtless Cycoden will have some instructions for him as well), but with only the information which is connected to TMP, as Cycoden disallows any discussion outside that train of thought. By now the Mafia are starting to become in the majority and could easily get another Townie lynched.

Nope, I don't have any suggestions for the hitman.

There-is-no-spoon wrote:These are the numbers I talked about which TMP would have worked out, because he is experienced and smart. Therefore if he thought I was scum, then I would have been lynched.

Flawed logic. "Because TMP is experienced and smart, my theory must be correct".

There-is-no-spoon wrote:Cycoden's deliberate attempt to control this game as well as the fact that one of the claimed cops must be pro-mafia

Being a cop when two others have claimed means the town's suspicion is on myself and drconcon. Of course I'm going to post to try and demonstrate my innocence.

If anyone else would like to explain why the mafia traitor didn't mean to find TINS suspicious, I'd be all ears.

As I said before, I'm happy for anyone named by TMP to be lynched.
VectorZero wrote:SEXUAL INTERCOURSE DISGUSTS ME!
Spoiler:
Bulvox wrote:This is probably one of the few times that I'll agree with Cycoden on anything. I just wish that my brain worked like that.

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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby Silknor » Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:01 pm UTC

2 Votes for Drconcon

2 Votes for Poprocks and Coke

1 Vote for Cycoden.

6 to lynch.

12 Hours Remain till the day ends (9PM PST).

Edit: PLAYER CHANGES.

InstinctSage has replaced poprocks and coke and inherits his role.

Jakeyizle and Sarr have been removed/modkilled for inactivity.
Jakeyizle was a Mafia Supporter.
Sarr was a Townie.
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby Silknor » Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:24 pm UTC

Player List

1) Gojoe*
2) michaelandjimi* Mafia Goon Lynched Day 3
3) MartinW*
4) Jakeyizle* (replaced WillWithSkills*) Mafia Supporter removed for inactivity
5) There-is-no-spoon*
6)The Moo Prophet* Mafia Traitor killed by Vigilante Night 4
7) Tigion*
8 ) Azrael001* Mafia Hitman killed by Traitor Night 4
9) Bulvox* Townie Lynched Day 1
10) Blast* Vigilante Killed by Mafia Hitman Night 4
11) une see* Townie Killed by Mob Night 1
12) nsmjohn* Townie Killed by Mob Night 4
13) kellsbells* Townie Killed by Mob Night 3
14) sarr* Townie removed for inactivity

15) drconcon*
16) Megatriorchis*

17) sleepygamer* Day Cop Lynched Day 4
18) mbrownmx* Townie Lynched Day 2
19) Upsilon*
20) Poprocks and coke* REPLACED BY INSTINCTSAGE
21)Margi* Townie Vig Killed Night 2
22) jayhsu* Vig Killed Night 3
23) Cycoden*

Remaining Roles:
Mafia Godfather
Mafia Goon
Hobo
Jailkeeper
One Shot Town Hitman
One Shot Day Cop
2 Townies
Mafia Supporter

9 Players, 5 to Lynch, 11.5 hours remain.
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby Silknor » Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:06 pm UTC

8 hours left. I hope there's at least enough votes that I don't have to random.
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby Silknor » Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:43 pm UTC

Round 6 signups and the signup for the continuous play round starting at 9:30 PM PST today are in the discussion thread.
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby Silknor » Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:58 am UTC

2 Hours remain.

While I doubt one person will get a majority of votes, hopefully I won't have to randomly select.
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Re: Mafia Round 5

Postby Silknor » Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:21 am UTC

The town, unable to decide who to lynch, threw their two best suspects, drconcon and InstinctSage, into the shark pool, only one could swim it turned out.

Drconcon has been lynched, it is now night 4.
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