xkcd

by **OverBored** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:08 am UTC

Afternoon?! God you're lucky...

by **Silknor** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:30 am UTC

Maseiken: I think anyone who followed my argument would agree that it had far more to do with inconsistencies (including on day 3 when you weren't making jokes about lynching someone) than it did with you making a joke on day 1 that was obviously not a bandwagon.

Would I analyze Wombat's joke post in connection with something else? You bet, even more so if it turned out that Bulvox was Tribe/Heretic. Is it enough on its own to form an argument for day 1 except that he's lurking/not contributing? Not a chance.

I fail to see any inconsistency on my part. A single joke vote and not a single other post is far too little to build anything on, it's not a series of possibly joke posts followed by a sudden reversal. A single joke vote does not contribute anything, but in the context of a larger pattern (which of course in Wombat's case there isn't) it may have a readily identifiable meaning.

I'll be the first to say I analyze every post, go over all of someone's posts for the whole game when I make an argument. But who can honestly say that Wombat thus far has contributed or been active? He certainly isn't helping the town.

by **jayhsu** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:50 am UTC

Maybe we should let the mods handle lurkers/people who just don't seem to be there. Then we wouldn't have to waste a lynch on them.

by **Azrael001** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:50 am UTC

Long quote is long.

Spoiler:

Gasp! you've caught me. Random silliness is a clear sign of being scum. My vote for you was all a ploy, but you certainly saw right through me. I have no choice but to unvote.

Oh wait, do I sense some sort of vendetta against me? No. I don't. At least it wouldn't make sense from you, unfortunately you and Cycoden are inexorably linked in my mind as some kind of weird hybrid person. You two seem to be the only ones who ever find me suspicious, usually you are wrong, also (and I am afraid that this might sound mean, it is not my intention, (the truth can be harsh and disturbing, how can that be considered beautiful? (my arrogance may be grating but I am afraid that I think that it is not entirely empty (boy these parenthesis seem to go on forever don't they?)))) I trust Mega's ability to find scum slightly less than Random.org, so I don't count her suspicion as something to worry about. I think that it is safe to say that if you should be suspicious of me, you won't be.

by **Megatriorchis** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:54 am UTC

Azrael001 wrote:I trust Mega's ability to find scum slightly less than Random.org, so I don't count her suspicion as something to worry about. I think that it is safe to say that if you should be suspicious of me, you won't be.

Hey!

Meh, I can understand that. I'm usually a bit off when it comes to such things.
Anyway, Unvote

But I'm keeping my eye on you, 001.

by **OverBored** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:57 am UTC

I'm not sure I've ever won a game of mafia. Definitely never been in at the end for a win...

I suck :cry:

by **OverBored** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:57 am UTC

Just thought I'd throw that in to say any suspicions by me are useless...

by **Gojoe** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:05 am UTC

Az001 always does joke votes. Way back to like round 5(?) we both were joke voting A LOT. He is just trying to inject humor into the game.

by **cycoden** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:31 am UTC

Azrael001 wrote:Long quote is long.
Spoiler:
jayhsu wrote:So you've already voted for three people, for flimsy reasons.

The first was pretty much a lurker bandwagon.
Azrael001 wrote:That has occurred to me in the past. I agree.

Vote WWS

The second was a 'joke' vote.
Azrael001 wrote:I am sick of looking at that avatar of Overbored's, let's lynch him quick while he's gone.

Vote: Overbored

And the third was against me because I called you out on the first two.
Azrael001 wrote:If you couldn't tell that that was a joke vote then there is no hope for you.

Unvote
Vote: Jayshu

The first two times I only voiced suspicion and did not vote (which I see as a bad 'joke,' no matter the circumstances). I was more than happy to give you the benefit of the doubt (hence, refraining from voting). This last vote against me seems pretty defensive, however. If it's another 'joke,' I don't see it.

Vote: Azrael001

Gasp! you've caught me. Random silliness is a clear sign of being scum. My vote for you was all a ploy, but you certainly saw right through me. I have no choice but to unvote.

Oh wait, do I sense some sort of vendetta against me? No. I don't. At least it wouldn't make sense from you, unfortunately you and Cycoden are inexorably linked in my mind as some kind of weird hybrid person. You two seem to be the only ones who ever find me suspicious, usually you are wrong

Paranoid much?

I've played two rounds of mafia, I certainly noticed you in round 5, but I didn't find you overly suspicious until you voted to lynch TMP.

I think its kind of obvious why I pushed hard for your lynching in inquisition (and my suspicion of you not being a heretic was correct there - although I never expected you to be the apothecary (I doubt I would have played the same way if I was a heretic rather than a jew though - as a jew even in flaming death you are assisting the forces of anti-Catholism, so you have the freedom to be pretty bold))

by **Azrael001** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:36 am UTC

That is true, but as I said, I seem to have linked you and Jayshu in my mind as one person. I don't know why.

by **michaelandjimi** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:16 am UTC

cycoden wrote:It strikes me as somewhat strange that you feel the need to use random.org to support your reasoning.

You keep on jumping me for completely stupid reasons. I was going to use random.org to work out who to vote for, and it came up with Cycoden. And it seemed to me that you were the best guy to vote for, by my reasoning. It was just a coincidence that I was noting.

That was a weak way of defending yourself, Cycoden. You seem rather defensive.

Silknor wrote:It shows they're trying to not contribute as much as possible while not appearing to lynch, which is a decent indicator that they're a cornered mobster.

It can also show that they are a pro-town who doesn't want to get lynched for lurking.

Silknor wrote:Would I analyze Wombat's joke post in connection with something else? You bet, even more so if it turned out that Bulvox was Tribe/Heretic.

We aren't playing the game you guys think we are. No Heretics.

Azrael001 wrote:I think that it is safe to say that if you should be suspicious of me, you won't be.

Yeah. You and Nebuduck play the same way - you are overly cautious to seem town-like when you are scum, but you don't make any effort to seem unsuspicious when you are townie, because why should anyone want to lynch you?

Although, yes, Cycoden. You don't seem to be acting too scummy yet, except perhaps in your persistent attacks on Azrael.

Therefore: Unvote: Cycoden.

I'm going to vote Wombat if he doesn't turn up soon, barring new evidence.

by **Gojoe** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:29 am UTC

thank you for that maj.. your posts like that clear my head

by **Maseiken** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:39 am UTC

Guh! I hate the first day! So much baseless accusation and sniping! Mired in pure randomness! I don't have the thread-spelunking ability of Skilnor or Nebuduck, so I can't even use it for argument fuel very much. I just want to get to Day 2, when we have some facts! Am I allowed to not vote?

by **cycoden** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:46 am UTC

michaelandjimi wrote:You keep on jumping me for completely stupid reasons.

(my emphasis) I'm sorry, I hadn't realised I'd attacked you before you voted for me.

michaelandjimi wrote:That was a weak way of defending yourself, Cycoden.

Well, it was a rather weak attack I was defending against

michaelandjimi wrote:Although, yes, Cycoden. You don't seem to be acting too scummy yet, except perhaps in your persistent attacks on Azrael.

Nothing I have said about Azrael was intended to suggest he was scum in this game. I have yet to form much of an opinion either way on Azrael's scumminess in this round.

by **michaelandjimi** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:19 am UTC

cycoden wrote:I'm sorry, I hadn't realised I'd attacked you before you voted for me.

cycoden wrote:What do you mean 'too large' - why would it be bad for the town to have a large tribe?

That was what I was referring to.

cycoden wrote:Well, it was a rather weak attack I was defending against

Actually, it wasn't weak, it just became invalidated, due to you posting in response to it. And your other talking since then.

cycoden wrote:Nothing I have said about Azrael was intended to suggest he was scum in this game. I have yet to form much of an opinion either way on Azrael's scumminess in this round.

Ah, whoops. I seem to be suffering from 001 Syndrome, as I fused you and jayhsu in my head. :oops:

Gojoe wrote:thank you for that maj.. your posts like that clear my head

Is this joking or serious? I can never tell with you, Gojoe.

by **Gojoe** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:16 am UTC

I was being totally serious...

by **Nebuduck** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:18 am UTC

So I have an interesting proposition - I'm not saying it's necessarily a good idea, but it may be worth considering.

There are some people who muddy the water even when they are townies. For example, Azrael always manages to draw sspicion onto himself even if he is a townie, making it more difficult to find the raptors. To show that this isn't just me trying to get Azrael lynched, I think that I too tend to fall into this category to a degree.

If we HAVE to lynch someone on no evidence, it should be one of these water-muddiers. Chances are, if we're lynching someone on no evidence, it'll turn out to be a townie. So we might as well lynch a townie that makes other townie's lives difficult. Although it's obviously better to lynch a raptor.

by **Gojoe** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:45 am UTC

Nebuduck wrote:So I have an interesting proposition - I'm not saying it's necessarily a good idea, but it may be worth considering.

There are some people who muddy the water even when they are townies. For example, Azrael always manages to draw sspicion onto himself even if he is a townie, making it more difficult to find the raptors. To show that this isn't just me trying to get Azrael lynched, I think that I too tend to fall into this category to a degree.

If we HAVE to lynch someone on no evidence, it should be one of these water-muddiers. Chances are, if we're lynching someone on no evidence, it'll turn out to be a townie. So we might as well lynch a townie that makes other townie's lives difficult. Although it's obviously better to lynch a raptor.

That sounds like raptor talk to me....

by **michaelandjimi** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:50 am UTC

I'm not so sure, Gojoe.

Because, yes, on the surface, it seems to be self-defeating. These people only muddy the waters when they are townies, amirite? So lynching them when they muddy the waters would have us lynching townies! But these players are both skilled enough to WIFOM it to their advantage, especially now that they've drawn attention to it.

But I don't think it is entirely fair. That means you two die in every game, and we do not want that. Lurkers have just as much chance of being Mafia/Raptors, and it's generally a different person each time.

by **Gojoe** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:59 am UTC

Well... the thing is that I am one of those people, and so is neb. Neb whenever he is a mafia he gets away with it (well usually) so that muddies the water... I think that it is a bit unfair. But it is a good way to get a first kill... I was thinking. the only way we could get a first lynch is if we role play... like completely. I dunno. What do you think?

by **michaelandjimi** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:00 am UTC

I haven't a bloomin' clue what you are going on about.

by **Gojoe** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:01 am UTC

Like not in this game, but if like.. i dunno everyone has a background, and we have some clues that way... the start of every game starts the same way...

by **michaelandjimi** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:26 am UTC

*psst* Gojoe! We can probably lynch them all while they are away!

Bloody American Time Zones.

BATZ!

by **Gojoe** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:40 am UTC

You know what... I think Neb has a good point... I mean i would be fighting this to the death if it was pointing on me... but... we don't have anything else to go on....

I will think this through a bit more before i vote for davey

by **Nebuduck** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:00 pm UTC

I'm now significantly more suspicious of Gojoe. First he condemned my idea, then he seemed to jump on it. Also, I'm pretty sure that a few posts back he said something along the lines of "In this game I'm a townie, unlike the last one". Big tell, as far as I'm concerned.

by **michaelandjimi** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:05 pm UTC

Nebuduck wrote:Also, I'm pretty sure that a few posts back he said something along the lines of "In this game I'm a townie, unlike the last one".

I can't find this.

by **Nebuduck** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:21 pm UTC

I might be imagining it, it might be from another game, or it might be another person. I'm too busy to find and quote it right now, but I'll have a look in a bit.

by **Gojoe** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:34 pm UTC

I did not like your idea, because to be honest, I am one of the people that muddy the water... I was afraid that if i jump on the idea it would turn against me.... But now that I think about it, we have tried multiple ways of starting the game. From random lynching (which no one likes) to going for the lurkers... which was good on paper, but bad in practice (like communism). This however is another idea that pretty much goes with the idea that we do NOT know who to kill, so lets massimize our gain, minimize our loses.

I like thinking outside the box... and notice that i didn't vote on this, I decided to think this through clearly before i did anything.

by **michaelandjimi** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:36 pm UTC

Nebuduck wrote:I might be imagining it, it might be from another game, or it might be another person. I'm too busy to find and quote it right now, but I'll have a look in a bit.

Yeah, it's just because aside from that, you've got him changing his mind...

But find it, and we may be on to something.

by **Nebuduck** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:37 pm UTC

Yeah, Gojoe. I think that the deciding factor on whether I vote for you or not is if you said you weren't mafia. I'm going to go take a look now.

by **Nebuduck** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:39 pm UTC

You're right, I can't find it either. I probably imagined it. OK, Gojoe, I no longer suspect you.

by **Gojoe** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:42 pm UTC

Well thanks for that lol... but what if i said

Gee Willikers IM NOT MAFIA OMGWTFBBQ

by **michaelandjimi** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:43 pm UTC

Nebuduck, that was... unsettling.

We can't have the good players go around making mistakes like that! Feeling a little under pressure, are we?

by **Gojoe** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:50 pm UTC

OK... that was a bit of a slip up. Nebuduck seems like he wants to lynch me a bit too much. FoS at nebuduck

by **cycoden** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:53 pm UTC

My opinion is if people are lurking to the point where they are obstructing the game, then by all means vote them off (this has seemed hard to do in other rounds). Better yet, get them replaced. Some players slap lurker tags on others far too early though.

Water muddiers can find their early posts used against them if they add up to a bigger picture down the track, but often we seem to end up lynching a few newbie townies first, which is obviously bad. So I think nebuduck's idea might be worth a shot.

However, Nebuduck, few things smell more raptorishy to me than misattributing quotes (especially your own).

So in view of that:

FoS: Nebuduck

MAJ, this:

cycoden wrote:What do you mean 'too large' - why would it be bad for the town to have a large tribe?

wasn't an attack, merely a request for clarification. You provided it, I was satisfied with it.

You seem a bit jumpy.

Anyway, its nice to be in a game with fellow antipodeans! I actually get to participate in discussions rather than end up posting individual posts that get no reply for 10 hours.

by **Nebuduck** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:54 pm UTC

Would I make such a slip up were I a raptor? (Yay! WIFOM)

Anyway, if I wanted to trick you into thinking that Gojoe was a raptor, I'd not say "Gojoe said this... wait... he didn't" - basically, whether I'm raptor or not, it was an honest mistake not in any way influenced by whatever my role is.

by **cycoden** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:54 pm UTC

And it looks like I got ninja'd big time

by **cycoden** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:57 pm UTC

Gojoe wrote:Well thanks for that lol... but what if i said

Gee Willikers IM NOT MAFIA OMGWTFBBQ

The last person I saw writing something similar to that (drconcon in round 5) turned out to be a mafia supporter...

by **Gojoe** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:01 pm UTC

Nebuduck wrote:Would I make such a slip up were I a raptor? (Yay! WIFOM)

Anyway, if I wanted to trick you into thinking that Gojoe was a raptor, I'd not say "Gojoe said this... wait... he didn't" - basically, whether I'm raptor or not, it was an honest mistake not in any way influenced by whatever my role is.

No, but you could of been focusing on trying to lynch me, hence you made up evidence... you got caught.... hence you are in this predicament. I admit that it is very weak evidence. But it is better than anything else we have atm....

by **Nebuduck** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:03 pm UTC

OK, I'm sure I saw someone post something along those lines, so I'm going to go find it, to prove it was an honest mistake.

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