Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby Azrael001 » Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:59 am UTC

Well yes, but if I say everything now then I will have nothing to say later and the thread will die. This way other people can give their reasons for or against your death before I give mine, then they will be contributing and I will still have something to say tomorrow.
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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby une see » Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:17 am UTC

Azrael001 wrote:Well we were all "clamoring" for blood. At least when people were posting. crucialityfactor stuck out yesterday as one of the scummiest of us yesterday, though it is hard to tell what with everyone lurking and all.

If a consensus is not reached soonish that is my target.


No, we were not all clamoring for blood. I certainly wasn't, and neither was mbrownmx. I guess it might have just been a newbie mistake (Seremite is new, right?), but it was not a good move at all. I'm willing to let it slide for now in order to hear suspicions from everyone else, but I certainly think that was one of the most suspicious things that have happened this game.

crucialityfactor wrote:If Seremite was scum that was way ballsy to just kill a pro-town role with no reasoning whatsoever. I don't think anyone else really thought just killing a person at random was a good idea. I think the random killing everyone was thinking of was more on the lines of who is being the most shady.


Seremite is new, so maybe s/he didn't know any better. I'm not saying s/he is scum, necessarily, but...can't rule it out, either. *shrug*

Azrael001: Uh, I didn't notice anything suspicious about crucialityfactor either.
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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby telcontar42 » Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:33 am UTC

Azrael001 wrote:Well we were all "clamoring" for blood. At least when people were posting. crucialityfactor stuck out yesterday as one of the scummiest of us yesterday, though it is hard to tell what with everyone lurking and all.

If a consensus is not reached soonish that is my target.


I haven't been able to find anything that suggests that crucialityfactor is scum. This makes me very suspicious of this Azreal trying to make crucialityfactor look bad. Unless he can provide a justification for that accusation I think we should consider the possibility that he is scum. Also, he suggested that we narrow the list of people to kill the more experienced players. This could have been a sound strategy since we had nothing to go on at that point. However, this could also be him trying to knock out the experienced pro-town players to make his scummy job easier. I am not saying that he is definitely scum, but he is coming off as pretty suspicious. Also, people who are lurking should start talking more so its more difficult for the goblin agents to hide.

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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby Azrael001 » Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:09 am UTC

Yesterday his posts consisted of jokes about fortifying the fortress. It was as if he was trying hard to get everyone who had played the game to empathize with a fellow player. Then nothing. It seems fishy to me, I don't know about anyone else. As I said, my pick is only if we don't reach consensus.
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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby une see » Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:10 am UTC

I'm still suspicious of all the people who were "clamoring for blood," as Az said. telcontar42, Megatriorchis, Azrael001 (kind of). And of course Seremite for listening to them, and picking someone who wasn't even remotely suspicious to hammer.
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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby telcontar42 » Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:31 am UTC

So, just to look at who is lurkering here I did a quick post count starting from day 1.

1. Megatriorchis 3
4. michaelandjimi 1
5. Nebuduck 4
6. Tigion 5
7. Azrael001 18
9. Gojoe 3
10. telcontar42 5
11. Tiamat 2
12. Asmodieus 2
14. AKAnotu 1
15. une see 19
16. crucialityfactor 4
17. Seremite 5
19. nsmjohn 2
20. moody7277 1

Everyone has posted, but I have bolded those who have only posted once or twice. We should look at these as possibly suspicious. Also, even though my last post was casting suspicion on Azrael, I think keeping Azrael and une see alive as long as possible is a good idea as they are talking a lot and if scum are likely to eventually slip up and reveal themselves. They are also generating discussion which we need.

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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby Azrael001 » Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:03 am UTC

I won't argue with that. :mrgreen:
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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby moody7277 » Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:06 pm UTC

I agree with une see that a. Seremite's quick hammering was likely pressure put on a newish player and not a bold move by scum, and b. that some of the pressurers might be scum.
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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby nsmjohn » Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:27 pm UTC

I am not sure if I am fond of this game type; it puts too much power in the hands of one person. I am just kinda plodding along here, don't mind me I am not sure what to do.
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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby une see » Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:33 am UTC

Guys...are we doing this again?
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Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby Azrael001 » Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:42 am UTC

Doing what again?
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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby Tigerlion » Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:45 am UTC

Aye, I wonder the same thing.

Is it discuss strategy, or let the game die?

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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby une see » Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:47 am UTC

Azrael001 wrote:Doing what again?


Not saying anything.
T.S. Eliot in "The Waste Land" wrote:APRIL is the cruellest month, breeding
Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
Memory and desire, stirring
Dull roots with spring rain.

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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby Azrael001 » Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:57 am UTC

Well here's an idea. Consensus must be reached by this time tomorrow or you know who gets the ax. Or rather, the hammer.
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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby une see » Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:13 am UTC

Okay, I don't understand why you keep saying you're going to hammer crucialityfactor if a consensus isn't reached. In my opinion, he hasn't been suspicious at all. The people you should be looking at are telcontar42, Mega, and Seremite, for the reasons I already stated (and well...you, except obviously you're not going to hammer yourself). And since we seem to be accepting that Seremite just made a newbie mistake or something (although it's quite suspicious that s/he hasn't shown up to say anything at all since the day started), I think if you're going to hammer anyone without a consensus, you should hammer either telcontar42 or Mega. They've been the most suspicious so far, by suggesting that Seremite make a random kill yesterday, when it was very clear that was a bad idea.
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Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
Memory and desire, stirring
Dull roots with spring rain.

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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby Azrael001 » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:02 am UTC

Mega is suspicious when she is the Pope, I can't make myself suspect her just because she is acting suspicious. I didn't notice telcontar42 as being especially anything.
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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby Tigerlion » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:14 am UTC

Azrael, its sort of irrational to kill someone and give us a time limit, though it might help other people get involved with the game.
Because, as of late, the problem has been that noone really posts anything that's useful. (including me, I guess.)

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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby Tiamat » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:28 am UTC

I'm sorry I haven't been able to post much, though things have been slow. I still don't understand why mbrownmx got killed.

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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby Azrael001 » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:36 am UTC

Well the idea is that people will be forced to participate. If there is little discussion generated at all, I will wait.
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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby Tigerlion » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:42 am UTC

Well, tomorrow, on the off chance I have time, I will look into one of our antagonists: telcontar42, Mega, crucialityfactor, or Seremite. Probably Mega.

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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby une see » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:54 am UTC

Is this another one of your hunches, Azrael001? Fine, whatever. You're obviously not going to listen to me, even though I use logic and you NEVER do.
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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby michaelandjimi » Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:02 am UTC

I have returned. It is the combined effect of all of the other games that has caused me to not post.

I am in agreement that what Seremite did was a newbie mistake (She's a girl, by the way, une see). I mean, even if she was scum, it is unlikely that she knew mbrownmx was the Doctor.

Crucialityfactor hasn't been ringing any alarm bells for me, but I haven't really been following the thread. I guess he's as good a choice as any.
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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby crucialityfactor » Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:27 pm UTC

No I'm not as good a choice as any! Random kill day 1 with lots of discussion? Fine. Random kill day 1 with NO discussion? Shit, we better make sure we make the right decision day 2.

Using Azrael's bullshit suspicions of me as the primary reason to hammer on day 2 is fucking stupid. You kill me today, I guarantee you'll end up with 3 more townies dead tomorrow and you'll be nowhere closer to finding scum than you were today.

The mafia (goblins) know exactly who's not on their side, that means each night they can pick and choose their target, they might not know what role they're eliminating, but they're getting rid of townies, so that's all that matters to them.

We don't know shit about who's scum. Randomly picking people off each day won't help us learn anything. It's not like you kill enough townies randomly and all of a sudden someone will go "Oh god! The horror! I'm a goblin, lynch me! I can't bear it any longer!"

I'll have another post later with what I think good strategies would be for the remaining Pro-Town roles.

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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby moody7277 » Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:51 pm UTC

So the case against Mega goes something like this:

Only three posts since the start (thanks for the count telcontar), first two real quick basicly saying that voting for lurkers (which in itself is kinda random) even in jest is a bad idea, then a long delay before the frustrated post telling Seremite to just whack someone.
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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby une see » Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:53 pm UTC

Yeah, I don't know what the fuck Azrael is doing. It's kind of okay when we're playing lynch-style, since he usually can't convince people to lynch along with him, but when he's the sole hammerer, he just won't listen to reason and just goes with his own gut feelings. I don't think he should hammer you, since you haven't shown any signs of being scum, but it's not like he's going to listen to us anyway.
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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby Azrael001 » Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:12 pm UTC

This is not one of my "hunches", and I am willing to listen to reason. Clearly no one wants this "lynch", and I am not nearly as certain as times in the past. But I have gotten people to talk which is the important thing. To be completely honest, that was more or less my plan. Pick someone at random and threaten them. To that end I would say that I have suceeded.

That is all.
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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby une see » Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:24 pm UTC

Uh...yeah, sure, Az.
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Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
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Dull roots with spring rain.

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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby Tigerlion » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:39 pm UTC

That sounds like sarcasm, une.
He said it earlier:


Azrael001 wrote:Well the idea is that people will be forced to participate. If there is little discussion generated at all, I will wait.

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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby une see » Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:13 pm UTC

Okay. So there was discussion. Now what? I still think the most suspicious are telcontar42 and Mega.
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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby Azrael001 » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:48 am UTC

Well Mega seems to be the target of choice. Anything else to say?
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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby Megatriorchis » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:53 am UTC

Yeah, I've got something to say.

Don't kill me!
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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby Azrael001 » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:50 am UTC

Convincing.
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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby une see » Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:02 pm UTC

Um...well, I would prefer not to kill Mega just yet (we need discussion, guys!), but I think she has been one of the more suspicious people, so I guess if anyone has to die, she wouldn't be a bad choice.
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Dull roots with spring rain.

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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby Megatriorchis » Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:23 pm UTC

Well, everyone's lurking, if that's why I'm suspicious.
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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby crucialityfactor » Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:40 pm UTC

I'd like to know what exactly makes people suspicious of Mega. Did she do something other than call for a quick/random hammer yesterday?

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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby moody7277 » Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:43 pm UTC

crucialityfactor wrote:I'd like to know what exactly makes people suspicious of Mega. Did she do something other than call for a quick/random hammer yesterday?


me wrote:So the case against Mega goes something like this:

Only three posts since the start (thanks for the count telcontar), first two real quick basicly saying that voting for lurkers (which in itself is kinda random) even in jest is a bad idea, then a long delay before the frustrated post telling Seremite to just whack someone.


Since then she's made two more posts about not wanting to die (who doesn't), and complaining about lurkers.
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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby crucialityfactor » Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:13 pm UTC

Alright...so I'm thinking there's four ways we can go with today's hammer.

1) Hammer Seremite.

-Could have easily just picked a random Townie to kill. Had people pushing for it as a backup. The kill resulted in 3 dead townies overall.

2) Hammer a Lurker.

-Scum have a viable strategy through lurking. 1) They aren't posting enough for someone to make a concrete case against them. 2) They are stifling any discussion we could be having by not adding to it, resulting in less total information being out there for us.

3) Hammer someone calling for a quick/random Hammer either today or yesterday.

-Again it stifled any discussion and information we could have gained yesterday so we have nothing to use today. Very possible that at least one of the people calling for the quick Hammer were scum.

4) Find a very good argument about someone who doesn't fall into those 3 categories and Hammer them.

-I'm thinking that if there was a good argument to find about someone we would have found it already.

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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby crucialityfactor » Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:15 pm UTC

crucialityfactor wrote:Alright...so I'm thinking there's four ways we can go with today's hammer.

1) Hammer Seremite.

-Could have easily just picked a random Townie to kill. Had people pushing for it as a backup. The kill resulted in 3 dead townies overall.

2) Hammer a Lurker.

-Scum have a viable strategy through lurking. 1) They aren't posting enough for someone to make a concrete case against them. 2) They are stifling any discussion we could be having by not adding to it, resulting in less total information being out there for us.

3) Hammer someone calling for a quick/random Hammer either today or yesterday.

-Again it stifled any discussion and information we could have gained yesterday so we have nothing to use today. Very possible that at least one of the people calling for the quick Hammer were scum.

4) Find a very good argument about someone who doesn't fall into those 3 categories and Hammer them.

-I'm thinking that if there was a good argument to find about someone we would have found it already.



Actually there are Five ways:

5) Random Hammer

-Bad Idea.

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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby moody7277 » Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:27 pm UTC

crucialityfactor wrote:Alright...so I'm thinking there's four ways we can go with today's hammer.

1) Hammer Seremite.

-Could have easily just picked a random Townie to kill. Had people pushing for it as a backup. The kill resulted in 3 dead townies overall.


I'd just as soon we didn't. 90-95% certain that it was peer (or non-peer) pressure for the quick hammer on a newish player. She doesn't deserve retribution just for accidentally picking the doc.

crucialityfactor wrote:2) Hammer a Lurker.

-Scum have a viable strategy through lurking. 1) They aren't posting enough for someone to make a concrete case against them. 2) They are stifling any discussion we could be having by not adding to it, resulting in less total information being out there for us.


Lurkering is not in and o fitself scummy, but I do agree with your point 2 on this.

crucialityfactor wrote:3) Hammer someone calling for a quick/random Hammer either today or yesterday.

-Again it stifled any discussion and information we could have gained yesterday so we have nothing to use today. Very possible that at least one of the people calling for the quick Hammer were scum.


This seems like the most beneficial thing to happen. Telcontar has been marginally more helpful than Mega, so I would suggest hammering her to Az.

crucialityfactor wrote:4) Find a very good argument about someone who doesn't fall into those 3 categories and Hammer them.

-I'm thinking that if there was a good argument to find about someone we would have found it already.


This is more or less just random.
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Re: Hammertime! [Kingmaker Mafia 2]

Postby Azrael001 » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:44 pm UTC

5 hours approximately until I crack a skull. Mega seems to be the target of choice. I disagree with it, but I am a slave of the people.
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