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Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:40 pm UTC
by New User
This might belong in the meta discussion thread, but since it's a response to the wiki ownership, I'll point out that xkcd already has a wiki. I don't know what its purpose is, or who you'd have to coordinate with to get permission to add mafia stuff to it.

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:51 pm UTC
by wam
I was bored so had a glance through the newbie guide and I think the definition of Cult is off?

Timings have changed a lot.

Others thoughts?

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:17 pm UTC
by Xenomortis
Cults are typically defined by recruitment.
And I've never heard of Kingmaker being used to mean something other than "a player who can determine the outcome of a game they can no longer win".

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:07 pm UTC
by lynx
Xenomortis wrote:I've never heard of Kingmaker being used to mean something other than "a player who can determine the outcome of a game they can no longer win".

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=85953

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:25 pm UTC
by wam
Xenomortis wrote:Cults are typically defined by recruitment.
And I've never heard of Kingmaker being used to mean something other than "a player who can determine the outcome of a game they can no longer win".


How about this a re-write

Cult
This is a group of anti town, it normally starts with 1 or 2 people but can recruit. This is like the scum version of the masons. So every night they gain a new member. Once they control half the votes they win.

lynx wrote:
Xenomortis wrote:I've never heard of Kingmaker being used to mean something other than "a player who can determine the outcome of a game they can no longer win".

http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=85953


It's the distinction between kingmaker the role and kingmaker the situation.

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:49 pm UTC
by New User
I don't think it's a good idea to imply that Cult is the scum version of Masons, because that implies that Masons are town. In xkcd mafia, I have always seen Masons as meaning players who can chat via PM, regardless of which alignment they have. It seems to be assumed that each member of the Masons does not know the alignment of the other Masons.
This is contrary to the definition on mafiascum wiki, which says Masons are town. It could be a newbie trap to refer new players to the mafiascum wiki, and then have them participate in a game with a Mason group. The new player might assume the other Masons are town, if they read that on the mafiascum wiki.
I just noticed that the OP says of Masons, "Beware they might accidentally invite a mafia." I suppose this is a good warning, only in games where the Masons recruit. I have seen games here that have a Mason group that begins the game with each player ignorant of the alignments of the other Masons, and I'm pretty sure I've seen games where there is a Mason group from the beginning that has players of mixed alignments.

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:00 pm UTC
by DaBigCheez
New User wrote:I don't think it's a good idea to imply that Cult is the scum version of Masons, because that implies that Masons are town. In xkcd mafia, I have always seen Masons as meaning players who can chat via PM, regardless of which alignment they have. It seems to be assumed that each member of the Masons does not know the alignment of the other Masons.

This is contrary to the definition on mafiascum wiki, which says Masons are town. It could be a newbie trap to refer new players to the mafiascum wiki, and then have them participate in a game with a Mason group. The new player might assume the other Masons are town, if they read that on the mafiascum wiki.
I just noticed that the OP says of Masons, "Beware they might accidentally invite a mafia." I suppose this is a good warning, only in games where the Masons recruit. I have seen games here that have a Mason group that begins the game with each player ignorant of the alignments of the other Masons, and I'm pretty sure I've seen games where there is a Mason group from the beginning that has players of mixed alignments.

Or, you could pull a Gargoyles Mafia, and have the mason recruiter (and only starting member of the mason group) be scum from the beginning 8-) (edit: still not sure that was a good idea, but it is the case that "in XKCD forum mafia, there have been 'mason groups' which started with no town members at all")

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:18 pm UTC
by freezeblade
New User wrote:I just noticed that the OP says of Masons, "Beware they might accidentally invite a mafia." I suppose this is a good warning, only in games where the Masons recruit. I have seen games here that have a Mason group that begins the game with each player ignorant of the alignments of the other Masons, and I'm pretty sure I've seen games where there is a Mason group from the beginning that has players of mixed alignments.


I think the mason catagory needs a re-write involving this after the events of Chairman Maofia. A noob (that's who the guide is for right) will assume that masons are pro-town from the start, or that they share win conditons, where, around here seems true less of the time. Because it says so in the guide. This may be true else-where, but around here? not so much.

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:40 pm UTC
by Adam H
Well, masons are in the 'basic town roles' category. Which should say nothing about complex roles. Similarly, roleblocker is listed as a basic townie role, but it is also obviously in a 'semi-complex scum role' category (and it's a really really common scum role). In the same way, mason-recruiter could be a semi-complex scum role.

I agree that in vanilla games mason recruiters must always be town (or at least the setup rules must explicitly state that mason recruiters can be scum).

But anyways, new rules would be a bajillon times better than this outdated crap. I bet if someone wanted to make a new "rules and guide" thread, a forum mod would sticky it and lock this one. Or they could just edit the OP of this thread.

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:38 pm UTC
by ConMan
Given that it's a point of divergence from other mafia forums, it should be mentioned somewhere that here mason != town. I actually came up with the idea for Neighbourhood Mafia because of reading about the "Neighbour" role on the MS wiki, which is what everyone else calls the not-guaranteed-town private chat role.

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:47 pm UTC
by wam
Adam H wrote:But anyways, new rules would be a bajillon times better than this outdated crap. I bet if someone wanted to make a new "rules and guide" thread, a forum mod would sticky it and lock this one. Or they could just edit the OP of this thread.


I would be happy to when I get a gap, am traveling later in the week might make a good project for a plane ride!


Edit am also having a look at the modding guide as well.

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:00 pm UTC
by lynx
Let me know if you need a hand! I'm on holiday as of 5 hours ago.

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:06 am UTC
by mike-l
So I just signed up for my first (well second, but the first got canceled) game of mafia. What is the common practice on people who know each other in RL? I have a friend I have been chatting mafia with while I read through old games, and my chatting had gotten him interested. My guy feel is that we should avoid games together, but wanted to get opinions.

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:31 am UTC
by Adacore
mike-l wrote:So I just signed up for my first (well second, but the first got canceled) game of mafia. What is the common practice on people who know each other in RL? I have a friend I have been chatting mafia with while I read through old games, and my chatting had gotten him interested. My guy feel is that we should avoid games together, but wanted to get opinions.

This has happened before, I believe. It's perfectly acceptable for you to play in the same games, so long as you stick to the rules and do not discuss the game outside of the thread until it's over (or you're both dead). If you don't feel like you can do that, then don't play in the same games.

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:47 am UTC
by mike-l
Yeah I get that. Maybe it's just my auditing background (avoid the appearance of impropriety), but I feel like if I was a third party and found out that two other player in my game regularly talked outside of game mechanics, I'd take issue even if I trusted them both to 'play fair'. (My current recommendation to my friend is to wait for another game to sign up for, but on the other hand, if it's not as much of an issue as I think it is, more signups = more games = better)

Edit: either way, I'll be asking the mods of the particular game before we both sign up, but I wanted to get a feel for general consensus before wading into it at all

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:49 am UTC
by SDK
I once knew a couple who played mafia together. You'll be fine. Just don't cheat. :wink:

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:00 am UTC
by mike-l
Well, I don't believe anything any of my exes say, so a couple wouldn't worry me too much :D.

Anyway I'll see what other people have to say, prodding my friend to see if he's even serious or it was just a drunken 'yeah I'd do that'

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:58 am UTC
by Vytron
There is no problem whatsoever as long as you don't reveal anything about the game to your friend, the common rules of no outside discussion apply but otherwise that he's your RL friend doesn't have any bad implication.

But, yeah, you're not supposed to convince that you're town to each other in RL, you're meant to do that in the game thread :)

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:44 am UTC
by mike-l
Alright. Well I was going to pm you (vytron) if he actually looks like he'll sign up (I probably still will as an FYI) but I now feel much more comfortable inviting him to come join us than I initially was.

Edit: Turns out it doesn't matter, he doesn't have time to play.

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:13 am UTC
by 12obin
Checking this out because it seems neat, though likely more investment of time and focus than I'm up for right now.

But the fact that it's called lynching makes me cringe a bit. I'm not personally descended from slaves, my heritage is much more recently African than that, but the reality of lynch mobs isn't all that far behind us. (Arguably not behind us at all and just transformed. Yada yada white supremacy, yada yada police brutality.)
I'm not trying to pick a fight and I'm not really trying to make anyone do anything differently. I just feel better voicing it than not.

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:17 am UTC
by UniqueScreenname
Wikipedia wrote:Though racial oppression and the frontier mentality in the United States have given lynching its current familiar face, execution by mob justice is not exclusive to North America, but it is also found around the world as vigilantes act to punish people behaving outside of commonly acceptable boundaries. Indeed, instances of it can be found in societies long antedating European settlement of North America.

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:33 am UTC
by 12obin
Yes I realize that. I'm saying that it causes me personal discomfort for personal reasons. That's all.

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:39 am UTC
by Lunch Meat
FWIW, I agree with you. The fact it's an accurate word doesn't change the fact that using it lightly is somewhat insensitive. I would personally be fine with changing it.

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:11 pm UTC
by Adam H
To me, lynch has very little connotation other than Mafia. But if we were to change it to something like "kill", then it would conjure up in my mind images of gruesome murders.

"Banish" would work for a nice version of mafia, though. And night kills could become "capture", or something.

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:34 pm UTC
by dimochka
I'm sure numerous people will disagree with me but, given the fact that this word is clearly not aimed at a certain subset of a population/minority in this instance, I don't know if I agree with changing it. Every single one of these words could have a negative connotation towards someone. Additionally, if you think about it, we would essentially need to change all of our flavor to match the new type of word we use. For example, the first thing I think about when I hear "capture" is human trafficking, while the more literal version comes second.

In no way do I plan to vehemently fight to support either direction, just getting my thought out. I'm fine with deferring to majority opinion.

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:52 pm UTC
by Madge
There's no reason to keep 'lynch', so if I ever do happen to mod a game, I will try and think of an alternative word to describe the elimination round, because it does seem insensitive to me now that it's been pointed out. But I wouldn't try and enforce it or anything. Just perhaps spread it through osmosis???

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:05 pm UTC
by UniqueScreenname
As a black person with parents from that time period, it never bothered me. I agree any word would have bad connotations, and it may hurt more than help to change it. This is my official opinion. Whatever is decided, let it be so.

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:16 am UTC
by Djehutynakht
My opinion is to keep the word "Lynch".

To be quite plain speaking, to claim that the only way in which this word applies is to Black Americans from a particular period in time is inaccurate, and honestly I'm not sure if it's even right to do so.

The word and act of Lynching has a very long history that can, very honestly, be applied to peoples of all times, ages, races and groups, and I'm not sure we have any right to demand that it be treated in the aspect of one people only. And, to say, why should we object only in the context of the lynching of these particular people, and not all others subjected to the practice (to this very day)?

I myself have hosted one game (Salem Witch Trials) in which Lynching was used in a semi-historically correct context. Sure, the hangings of the Salem Witches were technically done through legal process, but in spirit the act was nothing more than a lynching itself. (A tangent: One thing has different connotations to different people. While I've heard some say that they associate the noose with Jim Crow, growing up not far from Salem MA, I've always associated it with the Witch Trials foremost, and old English executions)


On the other hand, people who are uneasy about it are uneasy about it. Simple as that. If it really did become a big concern here, I'd consider alternatives for the comfort of the community, but I don't assign the word context to a particular group. I give it its literal definition: Any vigilante action taken by a group of people with no official authority to execute a person.

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:14 pm UTC
by threetwoone
please add that spoiler tags sometimes don't work when viewing posts by a user

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:18 pm UTC
by Madge
Good idea. It might be a good idea to update this post in general because it is very old.

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:44 pm UTC
by heuristically_alone
threetwoone wrote:please add that spoiler tags sometimes don't work when viewing posts by a user

I'm confused by what you mean here. I've never seen spoiler tags not work.

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:58 pm UTC
by Deva
Try searching "Emperor’s Mafia" (without quotes) with the upper-right search bar. Displays one post without spoilers. Shows another (further down) with one. Appears to function correctly only with short posts. Cuts off the [/spoiler] tag in longer posts, probably.

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:06 pm UTC
by LaserGuy
At the very bottom of every page, there's a line:
Display posts from previous:

that lets you sort posts by author within the thread. If you search posts generally, GoJoe posts will be included.

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:26 pm UTC
by MasterOfAll
Somewhere on this forum there used to be a "How to Use Search Without Reading Spoilers" post/guide/whatever. I can't seem to find it, but it basically boils down to 2 options.

When using advanced search, change the Return First select box from 300 to All Available. This will ensure that things behind spoiler tags stay hidden.

The other option is to include something like -Gojoe or -Discussion as keywords, so posts in the Discussion thread don't show up at all. Unfortunately, this would also omit any in-game posts that happened to use these words.

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:45 pm UTC
by Deva
MasterOfAll wrote:Somewhere on this forum there used to be a "How to Use Search Without Reading Spoilers" post/guide/whatever. I can't seem to find it, but it basically boils down to 2 options.

Refers to the quote in this post, probably.

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:22 pm UTC
by SDK
Easiest way I've found is to just use this link:

search.php?author=sdk&t=124758

Change the thread number to whatever thread you want to look at, and change the author's name to whoever you're trying to search. Very easy, no mistakes possible, allows you to jump in and out of the thread without changing the chronological order, and easily duplicated if you want to search multiple people in the same thread. If you're too lazy to write "jimbobmacdoodle", you can also use shortened forms with an asterisk: jimbob*

Like this: search.php?author=jimbob*&t=124758

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:10 pm UTC
by SuicideJunkie
Vytron wrote:There is no problem whatsoever as long as you don't reveal anything about the game to your friend, the common rules of no outside discussion apply but otherwise that he's your RL friend doesn't have any bad implication.

The only difference is that at night time the mafia can communicate (via pm's to eachother)

Is it accurate to say that all PMs are disallowed, including between mafia during the day, unless a role specifically permits it?

Also, is there a good place to discuss alternate rule ideas?

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:55 pm UTC
by plytho
SuicideJunkie wrote:Is it accurate to say that all PMs are disallowed, including between mafia during the day, unless a role specifically permits it?
Pm's to the mod(s) are always allowed. (I don't know of any exceptions at least.) Other than that mafia can have daychat without it being explicitly announced.
SuicideJunkie wrote:Also, is there a good place to discuss alternate rule ideas?
The Gojoe thread is used for any discussion. There's also a meta thread which could be more suitable for discussing specific rule ideas.

Also, most games have specific rules that apply to that game only.

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:51 pm UTC
by ConMan
The specifics of which players can PM each other and when is dependent on the game setup, but usually a mod has to be copied in on the discussion and if it's a situation that's outside the norm (e.g. non-Mafia chat, daychat) then it's likely to be hinted at in the setup in some way, especially in a more open setup.

Re: Rules and Noob Guide.

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:52 pm UTC
by SuicideJunkie
Oh! I didn't spot the real meta thread way down the list because of the recent meta game which is clearly a game, and not a discussion thread.
Thanks :)