How to Mod Mafia Okay

michaelandjimi · Postby **michaelandjimi** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:51 am UTC

If you're planning on modding a game, you ought to read this first. We haven't had a large amount of bad modding, it's just that I figured this would be a good thread to have.

How to get a Game Started
Basically, in the discussion thread is where you put the game ideas. Make sure you have a short description, a name, and whether it will be a closed or open setup (more on this later). Once you start gathering interest, OOTD (or whoever) puts you on the "Games to Start" - if you want to start it soon you go in the numbered slots, if it's an idea for "whenever and you don't know when" you just get put on the list. Once you are first in the queue you make a thread for your game with official signups. Then, when a suitable amount of current games have ended your game can start, just so we don't have roughly a bajillion games going on at once.

How to Make a Game
First off, decide whether your game is a closed or open setup.

Closed Setup
The players do not know the roles beforehand. The role list is "closed" to them. This can allow you, though you don't necessarily have to, to have everyone have a cool role. If you were to have everyone as a cool role in an open setup, it would be easy for a Mass Roleclaim to occur and it changes it from a game of skill into a game of numbers, and that is not cool.

Open Setup
The players know the roles and numbers before the game begins. For this to work, a large majority of the players have to be vanilla roles, to prevent Mass Roleclaim.

Semi-Open Setup
There are several variations on this. In OOTD's Surprise Game, he gave an enormous list of roles, for the players to pick. In Sungura's Wascally Wabbits, clues were given to the roles, but not numbers. In Mega's Vanilla Game, the roles were given, but not numbers. Finally, in several games, such as this one, several options for the setup have been given. The mod will have to use their own discretion as to the roles.

Now that you've chosen which of these it shall be, it will be easier to make your game balanced.

Numbers
The amount of players truly depends on the mod and the setup. However, in our community here at xkcd, some things have become apparent. Try not to have more than, say, 30 players - it gets bulky and annoying. Conversely, don't run the game if you have less than 7 players, unless it is Assassins in the Palace. Optimum is about 20-25, depending on the game. After you've gauged interest, but before you make proper signups, you should make the roles. The actual game shouldn't deviate too much from the interest gauged.

Roles and Balance and Stuff
A good rule of thumb for a game with one Mafia family and a couple of pro-town roles is 1/4 of the population. Bear in mind this page, and try to keep the percentage change of a town win closer to about 30-35%, because it gets easier for town to win, generally, especially as power roles are added. It's probably a bad idea to have both a doctor and a cop in your game.

Of course, as you add power roles to a side, you need to increase the power of the other side to compensate. Try adding Millers or Godfathers if the town is too powerful. You may want to introduce more factions if the scum are too powerful, as an increase in factions actually hurts the Mafia, logistically.

Assign roles randomly, unless you tell the players that you are not. It's still a good idea to assign the roles randomly, though.

Once you've worked out the roles, it is a good idea for you to create the role PMs before they go out. Your role PM should include the following:

1) Role Name
2) Role Description
3) Alignment
4) Flavour Text (Optional, but it makes it more fun)
5) Win Conditions

That way, when it comes time for you to send them out, it's ready.

You should also have a look at potential combinations of abilities. Do you know what would happen if a paranoid cop investigates a godfather? What about if a Witch Doctor uses their power on a Witch Doctor? Decide what will happen.

Then the game is ready to start. You may want to have made some default flavour text, though, for lynchings and new days.

Your role now is manifold. You must keep track of votes during the day. At night, you have to make sure everyone's abilities work. Please PM your players so that they know you have received their PM. It makes it a lot easier for them. You also may have to work out what inventions do.

Potential Problems
No matter how amazing your game is, some people will get bored. You will want to replace them. Put a notice in the Discussion Thread for a replacement. If you game has gone on for an extremely long time, or you don't want to replace them, modkill without prejudice.

Furthermore, some people might forget about the game. The same applies - PM them once to kick them into gear, if that doesn't work, modkill them.

If night drags on, PM once, if they don't respond, they lose their action.

If people start losing interest, don't be afraid to put a deadline on the day.

Some more random stuff
1) Don't lie to the players unless you have expressly made it clear you might. It's still probably a bad idea.
2) Please be clear in PMs and in the thread. The last thing you want is an inundation of rule clarification PMs.
3) If a Doctor protects someone, don't tell everyone who they've protected. Just no. As a matter of fact:

Excerpt from Mafiawiki wrote:When posting Death Scenes or the results of Night Choices, the Game Moderator should always be keep in mind whether or not the information being given out is reasonably available (or should be available) by any other method already. If not, consider strongly the impact on the game of revealing information about players who are still alive.

Even information such as who was saved from death or prevented from acting overnight can offer much more information than expected to either the ProTown or Scum factions. When more than one player dies during the Night, it can be easier to reveal their information for an interesting narrative; for example, a Vigilante who kills a member of the Mafia just before being shot themselves.

4) Try and put control more into the hands of the players than outside forces. The last thing we want is a repeat of the ALICE incident.

Many thanks to Amy, CF, Gojoe and OOTD for their help.

Don't hesitate to tell me to add or change stuff. This is just general stuff for people who want to mod but haven't yet.

InstinctSage · Postby **InstinctSage** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:55 am UTC

What was the ALICE incident, anyway? I understand that's the reason why babam should never mod a game? I remember there being a big long IRC convo, but I don't really remember what was so bad about the game.

crucialityfactor · Postby **crucialityfactor** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:56 am UTC

Hey! That's my name!

crucialityfactor · Postby **crucialityfactor** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:58 am UTC

The Alice game was bad because only 1 player knew anything about Alice and he kept announcing that Alice was looking for something.

On top of this, he kept turning the game back in time and bringing people back from the dead. He wouldn't let the game end and none of the resurrections/time travels made any sense.

That's the short of it.

myrrh7x · Postby **myrrh7x** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:59 am UTC

Got it.
OOTD posted it on page 1 of the Queue I believe.

Spoiler:

oneofthedragon · Postby **oneofthedragon** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:26 am UTC

If you're planning on modding a game LIKE OOTD, you ought to read this first. We haven't had a dearth of bad modding, it's just that I figured this would be a good thread to have.

How to get a Game Started
Basically, in the discussion thread is where you put the game ideas. ~~Make sure you have a short description, a name, and whether it will be a closed or open setup (more on this later).~~ Open setups are for the weak. Close it off as much as possible. A game description is like a campaign promise. Once the people sign up, you can do whatever you want, because the game has already started, and you're in power now. Once you start gathering interest, OOTD (or whoever) puts you on the "Games to Start" - if you want to start it soon you go in the numbered slots, if it's an idea for "whenever and you don't know when" you just get put on the list.But if OOTD wants his game to start, expect him to change the rules of the queue. Once you are first in the queue you make a thread for your game with official signups. Then, when a suitable amount of current games have ended your game can start, just so we don't have roughly a bajillion games going on at once. Again, unless you change the rules like all the cool kids do

How to Make a Game~~First off, decide whether your game is a closed or open setup.~~WHAT DID I JUST SAY?

~~Closed~~ Cool Setup
The players do not know the roles beforehand. The role list is "closed" to them. This can allow you, though you don't necessarily have to, to have everyone have a cool role. If you were to have everyone as a cool role in an open setup, it would be easy for a Mass Roleclaim to occur and it changes it from a game of skill into a game of numbers, and that is not cool.

~~Open~~ Setup FOR THE WEAK ~~The players know the roles and numbers before the game begins. For this to work, a large majority of the players have to be vanilla roles, to prevent Mass Roleclaim.~~ A large amount of players have to be dead, a majority of all other factions, actually, so you can reveal the roles and start a cool closed setup game.

~~Semi-Open~~ Semi-Cool Setup
There are several variations on this. In OOTD's Surprise Game, OH YEAH he gave an enormous list of Cool roles, for the players to pick. In Sungura's Wascally Wabbits, clues were given to the roles, but not numbers. ~~In Mega's Vanilla Game, the roles were given, but not numbers.~~ I died there, so it's not important. Finally, in several games, such as this one, several options for the setup have been given. The mod will have to use their own discretion as to the roles. Usually, you should pick one that you haven't revealed to the players

Now that you've chosen A cool/semi-cool setup~~which of these it shall be,~~ it will be easier to make your game ~~balanced.~~ Fun

NumbersThe amount of players truly depends on the mod and the setup. However, in our community here at xkcd, some things have become apparent. Try not to have more than, say, 30 players - it gets bulky and annoying. Conversely, don't run the game if you have less than 7 players, unless it is Assassins in the Palace. Optimum is about 20-25, depending on the game. After you've gauged interest, but before you make proper signups, you should make the roles. The actual game shouldn't deviate too much from the interest gauged.
If you have less than 20 people, then you're a failure. Oh, and make the roles before hand. Cool setup, remember? Just make more for more players.
Roles and ~~Balance~~ and Stuff Balance is like open setups. FOR THE WEAK
~~A good rule of thumb for a game with one Mafia family and a couple of pro-town roles is 1/4 of the population.~~Just do what feels right ~~Bear in mind this page, and try to keep the percentage change of a town win closer to about 30-35%,~~ HA because it gets easier for town to win, generally, especially as power roles are added. ~~It's probably a bad idea to have both a doctor and a cop in your game.~~ If you're not following that cop, you'll end up dead at the bottom of a ditch.
~~Of course, as you add power roles to a side, you need to increase the power of the other side to compensate.~~ Myth.Try adding Millers or Godfathers if the town is too powerful.For added lulz, make everyone a godfather or miller You may want to introduce more factions if the scum are too powerful, as an increase in factions actually hurts the Mafia, logistically. Just add about 40 cults. It'll work out in the end
~~Assign roles randomly, unless you tell the players that you are not. It's still a good idea to assign the roles randomly, though.~~
Like politics, in mafia, there is a spoil systems. Give future mods good roles, and get better roles in the future. Don't give someone a crappy role and make enemies.
~~Once you've worked out the roles, it is a good idea for you to create the role PMs before they go out.~~Just kinda feel your way through it.Your role PM should include the following:

1) Role Name
2) Role Description
3) Alignment
4) Flavour Text (Optional, but it makes it more fun)
5) Win Conditions
My favorite is to hash the role names in something fun, then tell them to figure it out.
Names are useless.
Hash the descriptions.
Have them infer alignments
FLAVOR IS FOR THE WEEK
YOU WILL NEVER WIN. I STILL AM YOUR GOD!
That way, when it comes time for you to send them out, it's ready.
You should also have a look at potential combinations of abilities. Do you know what would happen if a paranoid cop investigates a godfather? What about if a Witch Doctor uses their power on a Witch Doctor? Decide what will happen.
Figure it out as you go. Consistency doesn't matter.~~Then the game is ready to start. You may want to have made some default flavour text, though, for lynchings and new days.~~ On flavor text: See open setups.
Your role now is manifold. You must keep track of votes during the day. At night, you have to make sure everyone's abilities work. Please PM your players so that they know you have received their PM. It makes it a lot easier for them. You also may have to work out what inventions do.Silly. Everyone knows those are jobs for ~~interns~~ co-mods!

Potential Problems
No matter how amazing your game is, some people will get bored. You will want to replace them. Put a notice in the Discussion Thread for a replacement. If you game has gone on for an extremely long time, or you don't want to replace them, modkill without prejudice.

Furthermore, some people might forget about the game. The same applies - PM them once to kick them into gear, if that doesn't work, modkill them.

If night drags on, PM once, if they don't respond, they lose their action.

If people start losing interest, don't be afraid to put a deadline on the day.
I agree with the modkill part. You are the czar of you game. All who question or criticize you must die. Quickly, violently, and in front of the others. There are no other ways.
Some more random stuff~~1) Don't lie to the players unless you have expressly made it clear you might. It's still probably a bad idea.~~ No.~~2) Please be clear in PMs and in the thread. The last thing you want is an inundation of rule clarification PMs.~~ See, if people pm you, then you can pretend people love you.
~~3) If a Doctor protects someone, don't tell everyone who they've protected. Just no. As a matter of fact:~~ Actually, as a rule of thumb, you should just tell the mob all the pro-town power roles.
Excerpt from Mafiawiki wrote:When posting Death Scenes or the results of Night Choices, the Game Moderator should always be keep in mind whether or not the information being given out is reasonably available (or should be available) by any other method already. If not, consider strongly the impact on the game of revealing information about players who are still alive.
Mafiascum forums, and by association mafiawiki, suck. Pointless info.Even information such as who was saved from death or prevented from acting overnight can offer much more information than expected to either the ProTown or Scum factions. When more than one player dies during the Night, it can be easier to reveal their information for an interesting narrative; for example, a Vigilante who kills a member of the Mafia just before being shot themselves.
FLAVOR IS FOR THE WEAK!

~~4) Try and put control more into the hands of the players than outside forces. The last thing we want is a repeat of the ALICE incident.~~
Rule your game with an iron fist. Pick the winner before the game starts, and make it happen.
Many thanks to Amy, CF, Gojoe and OOTD HELLZ YEZ for their help.

~~Don't hesitate to tell me to add or change stuff. This is just general stuff for people who want to mod but haven't yet.~~
CHANGING IS FOR THE WEAK!
Don't take this too seriously.

myrrh7x · Postby **myrrh7x** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:34 am UTC

oneofthedragon wrote:and by association mafiawiki, suck. Pointless info.

Objection!
A wiki dedicated to mafia (and a flash tutorial) are extremely useful.
They give us nubs a chance to start from somewhere.

Sungura · Postby **Sungura** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:38 am UTC

Oh. My. Word.

:shock:

At least my awesome possum wabbits game was not scratched out!

Clones FTW!

Rodan · Postby **Rodan** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:55 am UTC

oneofthedragon wrote:Rule your game with an iron fist. Pick the winner before the game starts, and make it happen.

So that's how I won the invitational.
I knew something like that was happening.

michaelandjimi · Postby **michaelandjimi** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:49 am UTC

myrrh7x wrote:(1:39:22 PM) ***OneOfTheDragon votes MaJ

<3

ameretrifle · Postby **ameretrifle** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:32 am UTC

oneofthedragon wrote:(THE FUNNIEST THING I HAVE READ ALL WEEK)

(that is all)

Sungura · Postby **Sungura** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:03 pm UTC

I vote this thread is stickied

Oh btw I personally think 20 is good for a game...it seems that often people loose interest if it's too big, especially as it gets hard to follow with the number of people. If it's a large game too those being active allow for others to slide by and not talk, and then of course those who talk get lynched/killed, and then all of a sudden mid-game you are left with the people who weren't participating as much and the game fizzles out. Just some of my observations.

Also, never let nights (or days, but especially nights) continue forever. Unless you want to kill the game.

Vieto · Postby **Vieto** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:50 pm UTC

Interesting. I'm taking note of these for when I mod my game.

InstinctSage · Postby **InstinctSage** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:21 am UTC

Sungura wrote:I vote this thread is stickied

Oh btw I personally think 20 is good for a game...it seems that often people loose interest if it's too big, especially as it gets hard to follow with the number of people. If it's a large game too those being active allow for others to slide by and not talk, and then of course those who talk get lynched/killed, and then all of a sudden mid-game you are left with the people who weren't participating as much and the game fizzles out. Just some of my observations.

Also, never let nights (or days, but especially nights) continue forever. Unless you want to kill the game.

In a large game, you should include specialty roles that allow for high death tolls, or modify existing roles. Don't just make a jester, make an explosive jester. Got a miller? Give him a double daykill so when he's investigated by the town cop and comes up guilty, he can at least go out in a blaze of glory.

Oh and long nights suck. Just ignore any actions that aren't in on time. I say almost all night actions can actually be submitted before the end of the day, and thus should be.

Vox Imperatoris · Postby **Vox Imperatoris** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:07 am UTC

I want to second that 20 should be about the limit for a newbie mod, especially. Any more than that is definitely going into the territory of a large game, which can be extremely difficult to follow (like Mega's Vanilla Game. I skimmed half of the first two days because I didn't have time to read it all).

michaelandjimi · Postby **michaelandjimi** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:30 am UTC

efgh444 wrote:Good Statement!

Thankyou, mysterious WoW spambot!

Postby **Jesse** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:13 am UTC

Replying to spambots is a no no.

michaelandjimi · Postby **michaelandjimi** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:42 am UTC

But it was so nice to me!

Postby **Jesse** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:08 pm UTC

I rmemeber on SMBC forums, we had a spambot that we all loved, it grew into quite the personality, until, after a few months, it was finally banned.

michaelandjimi · Postby **michaelandjimi** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:21 pm UTC

We have that here. It's called The Cat.

Postby **Jesse** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:45 pm UTC

He's real. He turned up to a London meetup.

InstinctSage · Postby **InstinctSage** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:24 am UTC

Now I want to learn how to make a spambot specifically to try and make it loved by one and all on a forum. It will be like my little electronic child going out to play and make friends.

The Cat · Postby **The Cat** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:16 pm UTC

He's real. He turned up to a London meetup.

Hey Jesse,

I met up with Coin at the Tower of London. He's a cool dude. Had a good time cruising around the UK for a few days. Cheers!

The Cat · Postby **The Cat** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:15 am UTC

We have that here. It's called The Cat.

Hey MJ,

Thanks for the love:)

BigNose · Postby **BigNose** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:58 am UTC

Sungura wrote:I vote this thread is stickied

Oh btw I personally think 20 is good for a game...it seems that often people loose interest if it's too big, especially as it gets hard to follow with the number of people. If it's a large game too those being active allow for others to slide by and not talk, and then of course those who talk get lynched/killed, and then all of a sudden mid-game you are left with the people who weren't participating as much and the game fizzles out. Just some of my observations.

Also, never let nights (or days, but especially nights) continue forever. Unless you want to kill the game.

In others words, LYNCH THE LURKERS.

They are either SCUM trying to hide, or inactive players not contributing.

In both cases, LYNCH THEM!

Oh yeh, MasterOfAll said this too.

Sungura · Postby **Sungura** » Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:04 pm UTC

You should never have to lynch lurkers (as in people not playing at all). A good mod rains down wrath on such peons.

Adacore · Postby **Adacore** » Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:08 pm UTC

No, but the meaning of 'lurker' has changed since the 'lurker lynching' stuff was first seriously suggested. Back then, it referred to what we now call 'active lurkers' - people who are still around and post in the thread, but don't actually write any content or contribute.

Sungura · Postby **Sungura** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:30 pm UTC

Hence why I defined it. I'm well aware of the shift =P I've been playing since the 4th game here on the forums which was HOLY SHIT ACTUALLY THIS IS LIKE MY 2 YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF MAFIA PLAYING. =D

Wildcard · Postby **Wildcard** » Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:56 am UTC

ameretrifle wrote:
oneofthedragon wrote:(THE FUNNIEST THING I HAVE READ ALL WEEK)

(that is all)

Seconded.

I guess I'm like an old geezer or something in Mafia terms...I was playing here like five years ago....

(Hi, everybody!)

(Anybody?
...Hello?

...

MaJ? Sungura[Amy]? AMT? OOTD?)

*sigh*

wam · Postby **wam** » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:22 pm UTC

Welcome back.

On thise players sungura is still active on the forum but I think her last game was around when I started playing. 1.5 yrs or so ago. Amt still pops in to the disscussion thread occaisionally.

cjquines · Postby **cjquines** » Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:57 am UTC

Amt is on IRC most of the time.

They have all gone. All the people you are looking for have left the mafia fora. It's just you, me, and us.
Wanna play?

xkcd

How to Mod Mafia Okay

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