Large and in Charge: Mafia Round 7: MAFIA WIN!

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Entropy
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby Entropy » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:40 pm UTC

Obviously Sungura no longer wants to go after me because I culted her last night. ;)

But in all seriousness, I do think Sungura should go back and do a re-read, if only so her memory will be more fresh the next time a close lynch with a deadline comes up. We need to be careful as a town not to villainize the act of building an analysis... that can only hurt the town in the long run. Bandwagoners, not analyzers, are responsible for bandwagons.

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Brooklynxman
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby Brooklynxman » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:25 pm UTC

Right now there is so much I need to defend against I need both the time and a list of which posts to address.

In addition, korora you're off the hook for my analysis, I suspect it will be completely ignored anyway as the bandwagon runs me over. If I live I'll get back to it later.
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby b.i.o » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:53 pm UTC

Sungura wrote:The last like...oh...five? forum games I've played people have said I've played more aggressive or different or something. I dunno what is changed really except I do more follow through on analysis.

You latch on to people and don't let go. There was *plenty* of time to discuss Brook vs MoA after you voted and before the deadline was reached yesterday, but you didn't come back and discuss things at all.

I've played games with you recently, and despite your protestations to the contrary, I really haven't found you all that scummy in any of them. This game is different. I found your behavior early day 1 strange, and looking back I find your lack of comments later day 1 telling.

Sungura wrote:But, eh, should I? I mean, if I come up with stuff, are you just going to blame more on me if he gets lynched? I find it odd you question my analysis accuse me of bandwagon leading and then ask for more analysis. :?

He has a problem with your analysis not because you were analyzing but because you analyzed once and left that as essentially all you said for the entire day. Stop evading.

In fact, I find that last little comment enough to push me over the edge.
vote: Sungura
I'm glad korora's being more diligent than I am in this.

And really, there's a difference between saying you didn't have time to make a post and saying you didn't log in. One is a true statement, one is false.

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Sungura
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby Sungura » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:00 am UTC

I NEVER SAID I DID NOT LOG IN.

C'mon, don't missquote me. If you are going to make a case, do so on true grounds not by claiming I said stuff I didn't.

Honestly, I'm just getting sick of analyzing because in every freakin' game when I do I just get killed anyway or people get ticked at me. It's not worth it. I can tell when I'm getting done and fed up with games, and this is one. Later tonight when I have my notes on me I will go re-read stuff and post my suspicions, something I didn't have time to do in PB, and if you want I will even vote myself. I am not a bad loss to the town other than it being a number down. I'd rather it be Brook 'cause I really think he's scum, but if we aren't going to get an actual scum it might as well be me. Just do me a favor and don't bandwagon me until later tonight after I analyze. Because if I don't I will kick myself for not doing it as I have many times before. Honestly though, why do you think people don't really analyze and then games die? Because those who do are killed early on as they are blamed for every bad lynch that happens. That is as much as a problem as people being lurky.
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby Azrael001 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:17 am UTC

I think that almost all of the arguments against Amy are poor right now. In fact they're bad enough to make me reconsider my own position against her. That is, I never got around to posting my suspicions yesterday, so while it looks like I'm jumping on the band wagon, my FoS on Amy is actually about a day old.
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korora
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby korora » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:09 am UTC

Here is the actual quote:
Sungura wrote:Re-read confirms it, I remember thinking I would switch my vote then I didn't get on for about a day and missed the deadline.
I interpreted "didn't get on" as "didn't log on".

Anyways, I'm not going to vote (for anyone) for a while. The day is still young.
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby Silknor » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:15 am UTC

See, this is why I didn't want to quick lynch Brook, even though I really think he should be lynched. I still fully plan to vote for him, but I like all the discussion that's going on.

Amy, I'm still a big fan of your analysis, don't stop! I really don't pick up mine till the field has narrowed a bit, because there's just not that much to go on, so I'm very appreciative of yours. And b.i.o's vote reminded me that I suspected him yesterday too.

BTW I really doubt there will be a bandwagon on you. I'm pretty sure most of yesterday's brook voters and at least some of MoA's voters still want Brook lynched.
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby Silknor » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:19 am UTC

Oh and as someone who has been behind at times in games like this one even though I was checking my PMs/other game since I'm modding (like Amy is), I can understand the being online and in the forum but not posting or even reading every game you're in. And if you're trying to be very literal about the "didn't get on" it could as easily mean not logging in but still seeing new posts. As much as I want to see discussion today, it would take a huge amount of scumminess today for me to want to lynch anyone but Brook. I didn't get the cathartic experience of my prime suspect being lynched so I'm still gunning for him! Obviously though it'll be nice to have all this discussion for day 3.
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby une see » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:27 am UTC

bio, seriously? You actually think Amy is more suspicious than Brook? I have no idea if you just have the strangest scumdar in the world or what, but I'm scratching my head here. Yeah, I do remember that I thought both Entropy and bio were pretty suspicious yesterday. But am too lazy to do analyses...
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby Brooklynxman » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:34 am UTC

une see wrote:bio, seriously? You actually think Amy is more suspicious than Brook? I have no idea if you just have the strangest scumdar in the world or what, but I'm scratching my head here. Yeah, I do remember that I thought both Entropy and bio were pretty suspicious yesterday. But am too lazy to do analyses...


Okay wait wait wait.

Thinking I am suspicious is one thing, but thinking people are suspicious for thinking someone else is suspicious?
FOS: une see
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby dedalus » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:00 am UTC

Brook, une's pointing out the fact that right now bio is more interested in making a bad case against amy then the good case against you... I see nothing suspicious here.

That being said, I think there's a fair few players (myself included) that expect brook to get lynched today unless he says something radically name-clearing. Of course, it'd help everyone if someone posted a list of points against him... But there's a lot of d2 laziness going on, and with 10 pages of text to analyse I can see why (personally I'm waiting for Kipper to post his promised analysis rather then doing it myself). And yeah, just because we're all expecting brook to get lynched, it's probably a good idea to not effectively neuter yourself by refusing to vote for anyone else, as it reduces the pressure on players you think are scum. And hell, with a total of 5 scum players left in the game there's plenty of other people hanging around that need a noose around their neck.
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Rakysh
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby Rakysh » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:18 am UTC

Yeah, I'm getting a severe case of the day two lazies. Night was too long- I've forgotten what happened :S.

*reread*

Ok, I'm putting my support in behind a BrookLynxMan vote, but not yet- I want more of a day 2 for later. I agree bio has his priorities wrong- it seems fairly certain that today's bandwagon will be a LynxMan one, and going after Amy that hard for (what I consider) very little is a bit much.

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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby Brooklynxman » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:30 am UTC

Rakysh wrote:Yeah, I'm getting a severe case of the day two lazies. Night was too long- I've forgotten what happened :S.

*reread*

Ok, I'm putting my support in behind a BrookLynxMan vote, but not yet- I want more of a day 2 for later. I agree bio has his priorities wrong- it seems fairly certain that today's bandwagon will be a LynxMan one, and going after Amy that hard for (what I consider) very little is a bit much.


IT


IS


BROOKLYN


X


MAN

I

AM

NOT

A

BLOODY

HALF

HUMAN

Also, unless someone wants to post a list of points for me to defend against, I will confess Im kinda given up.
We figure out what all this means, then do something large and violent

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Rakysh
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby Rakysh » Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:40 am UTC

XD

If you didn't overeact so, we wouldn't do it. Sorry though, I'll stop in the future.

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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby mister k » Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:54 am UTC

Bah, I vote town, go inactive for getting married, and get killed for my troubles. Screw this! Go town!
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby existential_elevator » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:34 am UTC

Re: Day 2 laziness. Thank goodness for that advanced search feature, huh?

I'm still a bit of a junior when it comes to analysis, so hopefully you guys will help me out. Here are some select cuts of the raw material from day 1. I've only commented briefly, but yes, hopefully someone better at this will show me what to do.

Spoiler:
Brooklynxman wrote:I agree with everything the town does once the traitor is dead, and suggest we stop telling the mafia what to do about the traitor mid day 1 (before they can communicate in private and decide). We'll know what they decide when the traitor ends up dead. Honestly.
This comes across a little cryptic to me.

Brooklynxman wrote:I completely agree with you.
Here Brooklyn agrees with Entropy that the threat of the traitor being alive does more damage than whatever the traitor actually does.


Not such a stupid way, but we should try for other leads first before resorting to it yes.
This was about lynching a lurker, in this case Mega.

wait MR22 is IN this game?
Vote: MR22
completely avoiding my notice even when you somehow bandwagoned.
Unvote
Vote hop #1

no. Because he started it with "in all fairness".
Vote: MoA
vote hop #2

Brooklynxman wrote:
mister k wrote:Hmm, MoA votes for lurk a lyncher when discussion is still going strong, and then wants day 1 to be short? The excuse strikes me as trying to be cutesy in one's defence. I'm ready to vote now I think.

vote:MoA


must......avoid.....trolling.....terrible....usage....mafia terms.....and bad grammar........resisting poorly
vote hop #3?

For the sake of game progression and because you cant say much to defend a lurker
Vote: Mega
vote hop #4

GODDAMMIT and I just saw MR22's post
Unvote

waiting for the mod-prod.

MR22 trying to redirect a lynch from one lurker to another equal lurker is usually considered as scum trying to protect other scum (otherwise why bother changing from one to the other). Now, you could go on and on about how the mafia could have started it or picked the lurker, but in the end as we have no evidence of which one is scum.....there is no valid argument to pick one over the other.
MORE vote-hopping

I guess the thing to do with all this vote-hopping is to see what the results were of yesterday's activities. MrK was the nightkill, and a mafia supporter. MOA was vanilla town, and lynched. I don't know what to make of that. He calls out MrK on using scum language.

Now that MR22 pointed that out, I am happy with lynching any other lurker besides Mega as well, as I too am suspicious of MoA (see my earlier vote). Also happy I withdrew my vote on Mega before that bandwagon went any further as my reason for bandwagoning that was that the day was stagnated and a lurker lynch on D1 isn't terrible. Now that we have discussion (and that mega seems suspicious to be lynched) I agree with holding off on the lynch-a-lurker. Especially given that MoA was the one who started that.
Again, really slippery opinions. I think that has been characteristic.

Brooklynxman wrote:
korora wrote:The problem with LaL is that it gives scum a perfectly justified reason to lynch a townie, without anyone really being able to call them on it later. That's why it's better to lynch someone based on analysis.

I think what's pinging me about Amy is that she's posting a lot of short, low-content posts with almost no analysis. For someone who keeps a meticulous notebook of her suspicions, that seems a little weird and out of character to me. What it reminds me of most is Intrigue, when I had more or less unsubstantiated Amy-pings and she turned out to be scum. I didn't play Batmanfia, and I didn't find her suspicious in PB (because I was scum then).


and then if we dont lynch lurkers scum only lurk.....I smell a vicious cycle starting to spin here.

*drinks wine in front of him, after adding iocane powder neutralizer*


There are some big posts here, for your consideration

Brooklynxman wrote:Actually lurking is BAD for cops and doctors, as cops and doctors want to BLEND IN (think scum trying to blend into the town). Cops and doctors don't want to be figured out by the mafia. Thus, they should try and act like every other townie. Since they dont have any alterior motives (like the scum do) they shouldn't come up as too scummy, and avoid being lynched, unlike scum, who should BE lynched.


I think that's the end of anything useful. Being honest, I feel really kinda sick right now, so I am being pretty scant on the analysis. But I do have a bad feeling toward Brooklynxman, and I don't think it would be a wasted lynch. However, as an aside, I don't really know what to make of Brooklyn giving up. I part wonder if he's a mafia supporter and he thinks throwing himself under the bus would be better than lynching mafia.

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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby VectorZero » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:05 am UTC

Brooklynxman's D2 postings are not enthusing me to change my vote. He looked scummy yesterday, he looks scummy today. E_e has certainly picked out a selection of especially scumtastic quotes.

Vote: Brooklynxman

The problem with everyone waiting for analysis is that since very few people are providing any, it's easy for scum to get away with lurking, noone posts content, the game peters out and everyone stops showing up to practice. I'm throwing my vote in now (early enough that I don't think I'm unnecessarily accelerating nightfall to any degree), with the usual proviso that it can be changed if scummier people appear (Amy's and Kipper's analysis will be eagerly awaited, and I might be persuaded to choose between bio and Amy if that proves to be more interesting: in the meantime I think that may be fuel for future days.)
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby dedalus » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:33 am UTC

Hmmm... VZ does make a good point, as much as I want discussion, I want even more for the game to not stagnate.
Vote: Brooklynxman. I gave my reasoning yesterday, and nothing much has changed since then.

Here's probably the most-part of the analysis against him, thanks to korora:
korora wrote:I'm adding Brooklynxman to my scum shortlist. Here's his post history for reference, sans analysis:
Spoiler:
Brooklynxman wrote:I agree with everything the town does once the traitor is dead, and suggest we stop telling the mafia what to do about the traitor mid day 1 (before they can communicate in private and decide). We'll know what they decide when the traitor ends up dead. Honestly.
Brooklynxman wrote:
Entropy wrote:Given the latest rule clarification, I find it unlikely that the traitor will risk doing much but trying to blend in. As a result, I don't think that the traitor is as important to us as the knowledge that the traitor could still be alive. The hypothetical threat of the traitor seems more likely to do damage to the mafia than the traitor's actual actions, especially considering the godfather's ability.


I completely agree with you. SOrry for short post. But thats all I have to say. Paranoia amongst the enemy is a powerful weapon
Brooklynxman wrote:
Dromtry wrote:It seems like people who rush lynches always have a reason. Az seems to want to shove blame to someone relatively quickly, I wouldn't be surprised if later into this game they accuse more people.


They always have a reason b/c everyone in this game has a reason for doing everything they do. You mean malicious reason.
Brooklynxman wrote:
mister k wrote:
crucialityfactor wrote:Well in the first post of this thread you can find and answer.

cough.... I was just... umm... testing you? Really must read more carefully.... but there are so many words!

Lurker lynching eh? I'm not opposed to it, but I'll give everyone a little bit more time. Also lurking someone who is a habitual lurker isn't particulalry useful, because thats non-informative non-response. I don't mind doing it, because it helps games survives and if theres not a better candidate then it's got the same odds as anyone else. At the moment I think az or indeed MR are the most solid lynch candidates.


actually with mega the odds are much higher of being scum

:p
Brooklynxman wrote:
b.i.o wrote:
MasterOfAll wrote:I don't think anything interesting is going to happen here on day 1, so I am going to go ahead and vote for someone who is a habitual lurker . . .

Vote: Mega

That's a pretty stupid way to start out.

Yes, day 1 can be tricky, but that doesn't mean we can't learn things from it, and immediately lynching lurkers is extremely silly.


Not such a stupid way, but we should try for other leads first before resorting to it yes.
Brooklynxman wrote:
bravewolf127 wrote:I find it kinda suspicions of master rahl to jump on a band wagon and then jump out of it. But that is just me so yeah.


wait MR22 is IN this game?
Vote: MR22
completely avoiding my notice even when you somehow bandwagoned.
Unvote
Brooklynxman wrote:
MasterOfAll wrote:See, the co-mod defended my laziness! That has to count for something.


no. Because he started it with "in all fairness".
Vote: MoA
Brooklynxman wrote:
mister k wrote:Hmm, MoA votes for lurk a lyncher when discussion is still going strong, and then wants day 1 to be short? The excuse strikes me as trying to be cutesy in one's defence. I'm ready to vote now I think.

vote:MoA


must......avoid.....trolling.....terrible....usage....mafia terms.....and bad grammar........resisting poorly
Brooklynxman wrote:For the sake of game progression and because you cant say much to defend a lurker
Vote: Mega
Brooklynxman wrote:EBWOP:
Sorry
Unvote
Vote: mega


still had a vote on MoA
Brooklynxman wrote:GODDAMMIT and I just saw MR22's post
Unvote

waiting for the mod-prod.

MR22 trying to redirect a lynch from one lurker to another equal lurker is usually considered as scum trying to protect other scum (otherwise why bother changing from one to the other). Now, you could go on and on about how the mafia could have started it or picked the lurker, but in the end as we have no evidence of which one is scum.....there is no valid argument to pick one over the other.
Brooklynxman wrote:Now that MR22 pointed that out, I am happy with lynching any other lurker besides Mega as well, as I too am suspicious of MoA (see my earlier vote). Also happy I withdrew my vote on Mega before that bandwagon went any further as my reason for bandwagoning that was that the day was stagnated and a lurker lynch on D1 isn't terrible. Now that we have discussion (and that mega seems suspicious to be lynched) I agree with holding off on the lynch-a-lurker. Especially given that MoA was the one who started that.
Brooklynxman wrote:
Vieto wrote:hey guys, sorry for semi-lurking.

I don't think MoA is scum. He has been overall helpful in the game, as shown in his suggestion on how to get as much info out of the traitor as possible (now impossible, of course), and also suggested an optimal cop time. He was also worried about the roleblocker in that post, implying he either hadn't really paid attention to roleblocker falls (doctor blocks roleblock), and showing he, at least, wasn't the roleblocker or doctor.

On that note, I'm tempted to agree with Dromtry. Even with the meta-game logic, MoA may have been trying to rat out the traitor.

As for mega... yah, she doesn't post much. A replacement would be a good idea.


She just got replaced in music mafia
Sungura wrote:I guess I'm getting tired of giving lurkers a ride. Perhaps that is one reason people continue to do it.

I switch to Mega to 1) get things moving and 2) send a message. If she gets lynched, I am perfectly fine with that. If she is town, she's not going to help us anyway so we aren't loosing a thing. If she's mafia/anti-town, we're one down. At this point, this is my theory on all lurkers. Mega just seems the worst and although it's like her MO I am getting a bit sick of it.


Hear Here
Brooklynxman wrote:
Sungura wrote:Honestly, LtL is a completely viable strategy for the town, so I'm not sure why there is all this fuss over it. I think MoA picked a legit target of Mega as she does this all the time. Maybe he had ulterior motives, maybe not. We can deal with that later. He's talking and giving ideas, and that makes him more valuable at this point than a lurker. We can deal with him later if need be. Or maybe someone can cop him tonight if they are that concerned. (Do we have cops? I really should make a notebook page for this game).


We have but ONE cop.
Brooklynxman wrote:
korora wrote:The problem with LaL is that it gives scum a perfectly justified reason to lynch a townie, without anyone really being able to call them on it later. That's why it's better to lynch someone based on analysis.

I think what's pinging me about Amy is that she's posting a lot of short, low-content posts with almost no analysis. For someone who keeps a meticulous notebook of her suspicions, that seems a little weird and out of character to me. What it reminds me of most is Intrigue, when I had more or less unsubstantiated Amy-pings and she turned out to be scum. I didn't play Batmanfia, and I didn't find her suspicious in PB (because I was scum then).


and then if we dont lynch lurkers scum only lurk.....I smell a vicious cycle starting to spin here.

*drinks wine in front of him, after adding iocane powder neutralizer*
Yes, he's been a prolific poster in this thread, something I can't exactly claim about myself. However, he has a pattern of making short, low-content posts, and consistently agreeing with whatever the trend in the thread is. When people are voting for Mega, he hops on, all gung ho with the LaL. Then, when Rahl dissents, he quickly shifts his opinion to match - to the point that he's angry that he didn't see the post soon enough to agree faster. The worst is when he says:
Now that MR22 pointed that out, I am happy with lynching any other lurker besides Mega as well, as I too am suspicious of MoA (see my earlier vote).
This strikes me as a particularly scummy line to use. The best thing a townie can do is voice their opinion and argue for their convictions. Agreeing with the popular opinion is a clear scum tactic. Also, his MoA vote was a no-reasoning bandwagon... and now he wants to take credit for voting for MoA, despite the fact that we still don't know if he's scum or not.

There are a couple other things in there too, like possibly trying to stifle discussion about the traitor, which is fairly ambiguous, but I'd lean toward more discussion always being better for the town. And since that was pre-rule-addition, and the discussion was actually focusing on how the traitor could be most helpful, that's another mark against Brook in my book.

My grain of salt here is that I pretty much always find Brook to be scummy, but on the other hand, he's ended up scum pretty often. I actually don't think I've played a game with him in which he was town.

A bit more:
Spoiler:
korora wrote:
Brooklynxman wrote:Isn't better not to talk about how to find the traitor till we think the traitor is dead, because if we talk about it beforehand we are helping the mafia find the traitor. Even if you say "oh I assume they are as smart as me" 20 minds are certainly better then however many the mafia have without looking it up (offhand Im gonna say 6?).
I don't think anyone was really talking about how to find the traitor. People were discussing how the traitor can be most helpful to the town, which is pretty unequivocally a pro-town conversation.

Brooklynxman wrote:But saying I must be scum b/c I was scum in other games is like me saying "Hey i was scum so much Im due to me town, so I must be town". I dont think anyone can disagree with my logic here.
That's not what I was saying. I was giving you some benefit of the doubt by saying that it's not unusual for me to find you scummy, much like I often find Kipper and MoA scummy when they're town. I qualified that by saying that I couldn't remember seeing you play town, so I wasn't sure whether I'd find townie-Brook scummy or not.

Brooklynxman wrote:I distrust MoA because of all the previously stated reasons, and have found in the past repeating reasons to be a scumtell, thus, I didn't
I'd really like to hear your reasons. Some of the "previously stated" reasons are terrible.

Some stuff from me:
Spoiler:
dedalus wrote:
Brooklynxman wrote:There isn't really much to stick on. I distrust MoA because of all the previously stated reasons, and have found in the past repeating reasons to be a scumtell, thus, I didn't (pleas eodn't wifom oh hes trying not to seem scummy, I try that as town and as scum, seeing as when i am town i dont want to be lynched if it can be avoided either)

I fail to see how if repeating other peoples reasons for a vote is scummy, voting without any reasons given is less so. Given that there's only so many scumtells a person can give, it's going to be very hard for everyone to find a new and interesting reason to justify their votes... whats so wrong with 'voting for all the reasons stated previously'. But the point here is that your first vote was practically a joke:
Brooklynxman wrote:
MasterOfAll wrote:See, the co-mod defended my laziness! That has to count for something.


no. Because he started it with "in all fairness".
Vote: MoA

See, that strikes me as a very bad reason/way to vote for someone. Rather then distinctly NOT giving a reason, you made a reason based on MoA's joke. It doesn't feel right to me.

But the point isn't whether MoA is scum or not there, the point is that I AM standing by my convictions, those being that I think MoA is scum. And it being Day 1, even that conviction is weak, as most Day 1 reasoning is. It is the best reasoning I have.

It wasn't to do with the fact that you were trying to stand behind your convictions, nor did it have anything to do with the scumminess of MoA; you claimed the credit for doing something that you had no reason behind.

So what you did was try to bandwagon MoA, jumped straight onto the LaL bandwagon when it presented itself, and then back onto MoA. It seems you're really wanting to hurry up this game onto the night stage. There's plenty of good discussion going on, the game isn't at risk of actually stalling, so your excuse of preventing this is pretty weak.


There's probably a bit more can be dragged out against him, but seriously, I think this is enough.

Oh yeah, on my trawl through the previous day, I think there was a lot of discussion on MR22, bio, some on dromtry, azrael pointed a finger at korora, a few fingers were pointed at azrael for his quick voting, oh and there were a few votes for entropy. I may have missed out a bit. This isn't saying I'm accusing all these people, just trying to jog the memories of all the people who haven't been assed to reread. Oh and I noted Kipper was pointing fingers far and wide for various things, which struck me personally as a bit off... But Kipper ALWAYS strikes me as 'a bit off' so I don't think that bears following up on unless someone else feels the same way.
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby dedalus » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:34 am UTC

EBWOP: oh, and a few people were pointing fingers at Sungura yesterday, but that seems to have persisted.
doogly wrote:Oh yea, obviously they wouldn't know Griffiths from Sakurai if I were throwing them at them.

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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby MartinW » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:00 pm UTC

Indeed. We have had some discussion, there's enough evidence, so let's get with the lynching.

Vote: Brooklynxman

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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby VectorZero » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:09 pm UTC

dedalus wrote:And hell, with a total of 5 scum players left in the game


I make it 7 (including the traitor, so 6): godfather, hitman, inventor, roleblocker, goon, goon, supporter.
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby dedalus » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:23 pm UTC

well, it seems I cant count :oops:
doogly wrote:Oh yea, obviously they wouldn't know Griffiths from Sakurai if I were throwing them at them.

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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby Rakysh » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:29 pm UTC

Wow... that's a lot of Brook analysis. I kinda think we might be focusing on him a bit too much, but it certainly seems damning.

Vote: Brooklynxman

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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby Master_Rahl22 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:33 pm UTC

Ok, I am caught up but I'd like to do a re-read before I vote. Too many people are voting Brook for them all to be scum, and I did find him suspicious yesterday, but I'd like to go back over day 1 before voting. It's cool that the mafia supporter was lynched, but unfortunately we won't gain much at all from analyzing mister k since he didn't post much, and he didn't know who the scum were. Ok I will post more once I've re-read the thread.
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby dedalus » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:35 pm UTC

Obviously MR22 has been away... the supporter got NK'd... MoA was town.
@Rakysh: honestly, I didn't post any new evidence there, it's just a compilation. I'd say we should wait and give brook the chance to defend himself.
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby b.i.o » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:42 pm UTC

Sungura wrote:I NEVER SAID I DID NOT LOG IN.

C'mon, don't missquote me. If you are going to make a case, do so on true grounds not by claiming I said stuff I didn't.

You said you 'didn't get on'. I certainly interpreted that as meaning you didn't log in.

Honestly, I'm just getting sick of analyzing because in every freakin' game when I do I just get killed anyway or people get ticked at me. It's not worth it. I can tell when I'm getting done and fed up with games, and this is one.

This attitude really annoys me. We're playing a game of mafia. I am inherently distrustful of everyone here. Korora and I were both suspicious of you before you posted analysis yesterday.

I guess I really don't know how to say this any more nicely...but...deal with it. You giving up on a game because you have two people somewhat suspicious of you and one voting for you. There are twenty people in this game.

and if you want I will even vote myself.

Absolutely not. Voting for themself is about the worst thing a townie getting voted for can do, because not only do you make it easier to get lynched, you also deprive us of information about the people voting for you.

Honestly though, why do you think people don't really analyze and then games die? Because those who do are killed early on as they are blamed for every bad lynch that happens. That is as much as a problem as people being lurky.

You're asking this question and you're giving up with a single vote on you? As I said easier in this post, Korora and I were suspicious of you before your analysis.

You're complaining about lurking? Look at yourself. After voting for MoA you made a grand total of three posts day 1. The first was a defense of your vote/suspicions. The second was in response to MoA's asking if you were town. And the third was explaining to Dromtry what your name is. There were *five* days between your vote and the end of D1, and it's not like nothing else happened in the intervening time. I don't care how good your day 1 analysis is, the fact remains that it was done on day 1, and I don't care who you are (or how accurate your suspicions were in PB), it's damned hard to get a fully accurate read of people halfway through day 1 and I do not trust anyone here to do it with anything even approaching consistency.

I'll do some heavier analysis later today when I'm not at work.

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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby Sungura » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:49 pm UTC

Thanks for the backup from some folks. I'm glad I'm not crazy in what I'm seeing/feeling here.
Bio - called venting for some of it. This has happened in the last about five forum games I've been in, it gets old fast.

Anyway, both korora and bio keep saying they will post more analysis about me and don't, so at this point I'm just going to kinda ignore their rants on me until they post something substantial and worth defending against because this measly stuff is just distracting and muddying the water, and honestly looking back at day one reason moa got lynched was because of how muddying he was being. Muddying is normally a heavy scum tactic. So actually, korora and bio, IGMEOY both.

Heavier player analysis/thoughts still incoming, as I am now actively modding in SMCM as well as I have invitational going and both those games are in heavy mod mode so I don't have time to go through this thread quite yet.

I still think lynching Brooklynxman is our best lynch today in my quick re-readings.
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby Kipper » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:15 pm UTC

Yeah Ded, don't expect a BXM analysis from me, the big things (vote-hopping / following the town's opinion) just got covered in the giant posts.
Vote: BXM
Amy: (11:06:09 PM) ***Amy huggles Kipper
Amy: (11:06:13 PM) Amy: Leave my fishy alone.

[3:05pm] Amy: NO TOUCHING KIPPER
[3:05pm] Amy: MY FISHY!

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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby une see » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:55 pm UTC

I don't think korora has done anything very suspicious. I think his analyses are pretty good, except I don't agree too much with his reading of Amy. I don't think she's acted that differently this game than she usually does (as town), and I don't find her that suspicious. Maybe Amy's style just sets off korora's scumdar?

I do, however, want to know what bio thinks about people other than Amy. It seems like all he's been doing is pursuing his suspicion of her, which is all well and good, but what about everyone else? Especially Brook. bio, do you not think Brook is scummy? I view Brook as, far and away, the most suspicious player in the game right now.

I always think Kipper's super jumpy/overly aggressive. I'm not getting a town or a scum vibe from him. He's just...neutral.
Master_Rahl22 wrote:Ok, I am caught up but I'd like to do a re-read before I vote. Too many people are voting Brook for them all to be scum, and I did find him suspicious yesterday, but I'd like to go back over day 1 before voting. It's cool that the mafia supporter was lynched, but unfortunately we won't gain much at all from analyzing mister k since he didn't post much, and he didn't know who the scum were. Ok I will post more once I've re-read the thread.
I thought this post was very suspicious, especially the bolded part. Um...why would the people voting for Brook be scum? There are very good reasons to lynch him that have already been stated, and quoted for reference by ded (thanks! too lazy to say it all again :P). I don't think it's scummy at all to vote for Brook; I think you making that assertion is scummy.
MartinW wrote:Indeed. We have had some discussion, there's enough evidence, so let's get with the lynching.

Vote: Brooklynxman
This I also thought was suspicious. Martin has been acting very weird and not his usual bulldog self this game. And now, in this post, he seems almost glib, which is uncharacteristic of him. I can't pinpoint it exactly, but...this sentence is very very scummy to me. Does anyone else see it? "Let's get with the lynching" especially throws me off. His previous post in conjunction with this one is even more suspicious:
MartinW wrote:I also think we should wait a bit before just jumping on and lynching brook. We should at least have some more discussion. Discussion is always helpful to the town. I shall try to get some analysis in later today.

WRT to Brook: He seems pretty much dead in the water unless there's a cop claim defending him. If he is mafia I think the mafia may decide to cut their losses (and not get dragged down with him) and jump on the bandwagon early (which means less discussion, a quicker night and a lot of townie points for them.). This is something we should consider in our analysis.
I feel like Martin's trying too hard to seem pro-town here. He says he might do some analysis later, but then doesn't, which I find quite strange coming from Martin. Then, the last paragraph: speculates on what the mafia might do, which I've always considered a scumtell. Insinuates that early voters might be mafia, which I think is just an oblique way to make himself seem pro-town, since directly above it, he says to avoid jumping on the bandwagon, because "discussion is always helpful to the town." That phrase just strikes me as very...fake-town/town-pretending.

Well, this post by itself isn't that suspicious, but then his next post in the thread is the one I quoted above? That is suspicious to me. He says to avoid jumping on the bandwagon so we can have more discussion, but then doesn't comment on any of the discussion and goes straight to voting for Brook! It seems like he's trying to rush the lynch exactly like he warned against before, but at an opportune time for him, so he won't be labelled as an early voter. I am very suspicious of Martin now, and if I have time later/am not lazy, I will do a more in-depth analysis of him. Although, if I remember correctly, he jumped on the lynching lurkers bandwagon very easily before as well, which does not make him less suspicious in my eyes. And it feels like he's been lurking (not posting much content) too, which is ironic.
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby une see » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:59 pm UTC

Oh, before I forget: I actually think Amy has been a little overdefensive...but as we have seen with MoA, townies get defensive as well, so I still don't find Amy that suspicious.
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby Azrael001 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:02 pm UTC

une see wrote:I feel like Martin's trying too hard to seem pro-town here. He says he might do some analysis later, but then doesn't, which I find quite strange coming from Martin. Then, the last paragraph: speculates on what the mafia might do, which I've always considered a scumtell. Insinuates that early voters might be mafia, which I think is just an oblique way to make himself seem pro-town, since directly above it, he says to avoid jumping on the bandwagon, because "discussion is always helpful to the town." That phrase just strikes me as very...fake-town/town-pretending.
I noticed this quote too, I didn't like it then, but I forgot to mention it...
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby une see » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:05 pm UTC

Am I going to triple post? Yes, I am...Where is Bulvox? I feel like he hasn't made a single post this entire game. Can we get Bulvox replaced, or mod prodded or something? And kells? I feel like she has also not been active at all in this game.

Just for my own reference, these are the people I find suspicious right now: Brook, Martin, bio, Entropy (although I'm kind of starting to forget why I thought he was suspicious...), MR22
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby Azrael001 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:07 pm UTC

Only a double post. I sneaked in.
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby Silknor » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:14 pm UTC

I don't like seeing this post at all:
MartinW wrote:Indeed. We have had some discussion, there's enough evidence, so let's get with the lynching.

Vote: Brooklynxman


Why would you want to cut off the discussion MartinW? There's plenty going on. I still am going to vote for Brook, but what do we gain by speed lynching him?
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby crucialityfactor » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:18 pm UTC

Can we get Bulvox replaced, or mod prodded or something? And kells?


Bulvox is in this game?
Last edited by crucialityfactor on Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:23 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby une see » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:22 pm UTC

crucialityfactor wrote:Can we get Bulvox replaced, or mod prodded or something? And kells?

Bulvox is in this game?

#16 on the player list...:P
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby crucialityfactor » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:24 pm UTC

Ah...so I see...I'll look into that...Kells has been warned a few times now...I'll find a replacement...

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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby Azrael001 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:44 pm UTC

Kells is injured is she not?
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 2!

Postby Sungura » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:27 pm UTC

Azrael001 wrote:Kells is injured is she not?

Yes that too, her dominant hand (I think left, yes?) is prettymuch immobile right now so she's not typing really at all. I think between that and it being finals week we can cut her some slack.
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Re: Mafia Round 7: Day 1

Postby b.i.o » Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:18 am UTC

Post-by-post summary of your posts is in the first spoiler, your actual posts themselves are in the second. Anything I consider irrelevant or general fluff is grayed out and doesn't have a bullet point in the summary. Things I consider very important are bolded.
Spoiler:
    Day 1
  • Criticizes Az for voting early.
  • Some talk about the traitor.
    Grammar criticism.
  • Agrees with Entropy, but isn't a fast voter.
    Gojoe posted as a player.
    More Gojoe posted as a player.
  • (vote: entropy) Entropy's playing oddly. Gut feeling good. Over-analysis bad.
    CF has a title.
    More CF's title.
    'I voted' in response to general modprod.
  • Holiday weekend in the US, give people some slack.
  • (unvote, vote: mega) Mega's just going to lurk anyway.
  • I'm not sure how my playing is any different than normal.
  • I don't like lurkers. That's why I voted for Mega.
  • Lynch the lurkers is viable.
  • Someone pointed out my lack of analysis, I've been busy.
  • (unvote) Have analysis, will wait for newbies.
  • Analysis:
    -MoA fishing for traitor information. Anti-town vibe.
    -Azrael voting faster than normal
    -Entropy points lots of fingers, very calm, worrying.
    -Brook bad feeling, playing very safe. He doesn't trust MoA. Bouncy ideas.
    -MartinW is fine.
    -Silknor is anti-Martin, no bad feelings.
    -would vote for MoA, Entropy, Brook, leaning MoA

  • Talks about new people.
    Talks about new people some more.
    Talks about new people yet again.
  • (vote: MoA) doesn't like MoA's defense. Won't answer question about alignment.
  • Replies to korora. I'll get quotes later if I have time.
  • Talks about being asked question about alignment. MoA overdefended.
    My name is Amy.

    Night
  • (night) where'd Kells's vote go?

    Day 2
  • Mafia took out supporter. Yay. Suspicious of Brook, I think.
  • (vote: brook) Yes, suspicious of Brook. I meant to switch my vote, but missed the deadline. Also, Az is suspicious.
  • Wants to know why korora's getting a ping. (re: not switching votes)
  • I get annoyed when people get annoyed at my analysis.
  • The last five forum games people have thought I'm different/aggressive/what have you.
  • You can't say whether or not I had enough time. Both MoA and Brook have to die anyway.
  • "I find it odd you question my analysis accuse me of bandwagon leading and then ask for more analysis."
  • I didn't say I didn't log in. Lots of "venting".
  • I was venting last post. I'm going to ignore korora and bio until they post something substantial. They're just distracting and muddying the water. Analysis coming soon.
    Kells injured.

Spoiler:
Sungura wrote:Well as I said I am most suspicious of Az for starting that vote off soooooooo early. Especially when there doesn't really seem to be that much against Martin. :? I don't know. I usually need a game day to get my berrings.

I'll be honest...I'm not following these walls of text well. With my knowledge of how the game works, wouldn't the traitor want to out the mafia but in a sly way? I mean, they aren't just going to call them out, that'd be stupid. And Martin's posts are super confusing, Silky's at least make sense. Martin's are just...weird.

Also, with traitors we really risk a whole WIFOM situation too, and the more I read what Martin and Silky are saying it just seems more and more WIFOM'y and I personally am going to leave it alone for now.

I am a little concerned with Az's fast vote. This is a good set of players in this game. I don't like how Az is voting without knowing anything more. He seems to be looking for an easy day one lynch.

Sungura wrote:
Azrael001 wrote:I always people who argue back and forth.
My dear sir, you are missing a verb. You always <what> people?

Sungura wrote:I would agree with that entropy, I'm just not a fast voter. I did notice that myself and was just about to post about it and found you'd done my work for me!

Sungura wrote:haha I saw that post.

He was posting thinking he was a player.

It was funny, I wasn't going to say anything.

:¡This cheese is burning me!:

Sungura wrote:
kellsbells wrote:
Sungura wrote:He was posting thinking he was a player.
I almost did that in PB like five times. It's awesome.

I totally tried to use my history to get it back to quote it, but alas, I closed my browser which clears all that data. :(

Unfortunately, it was not pointing a finger at anyone. He was just saying (paraphrasing of course) that in all fairness to MoA he plays games by memory and doesn't go back to look at things, and if he does, he knows what he is looking for and goes to find the particular post.

Sungura wrote:Okay I think Entropy is a bit odd. Gut feeling. I play best when I don't over analyze these days it seems.

vote: Entropy

Sungura wrote:CF - you have a title!
Ry-Ry?

What?

Sungura wrote:
kellsbells wrote:
Gojoe wrote:I think cf's title makes him look fat.
Maybe, but it really brings out his eyes.
I think I'll have to go with Kells on this one. *gets lost in cf's eyes*

Sungura wrote:Hey. I voted. Don't yell at me.

Sungura wrote:EBWOP: Also, this is a holiday weekend in the US - lots of folks are probably gone. Actually, I think it's a holiday weekend in the UK too. Yeah my calendar says something about it being Bank Holiday there. So most playerbase is gone most likely.

Sungura wrote:Sure. Why not. Mega's just going to lurk anyway.

Unvote
Vote: Mega

Sungura wrote:I'm not sure how I'm playing different...people have been saying that lately in the last three games I've played. I think my style is just developing as I feel more confident now, to be honest. I used to pussyfoot around and now I get an idea and run with it. Perhaps that is the difference you are noticing. I've also not played a full forum game since I was killed Princess Bride and Batmanfia. Both of which I was town. People in both those games thought funny of me, but I nailed scum anyway. Well, PB I was killed, but still. Just saying.

Sungura wrote:I guess I'm getting tired of giving lurkers a ride. Perhaps that is one reason people continue to do it.

I switch to Mega to 1) get things moving and 2) send a message. If she gets lynched, I am perfectly fine with that. If she is town, she's not going to help us anyway so we aren't loosing a thing. If she's mafia/anti-town, we're one down. At this point, this is my theory on all lurkers. Mega just seems the worst and although it's like her MO I am getting a bit sick of it.

Sungura wrote:Honestly, LtL is a completely viable strategy for the town, so I'm not sure why there is all this fuss over it. I think MoA picked a legit target of Mega as she does this all the time. Maybe he had ulterior motives, maybe not. We can deal with that later. He's talking and giving ideas, and that makes him more valuable at this point than a lurker. We can deal with him later if need be. Or maybe someone can cop him tonight if they are that concerned. (Do we have cops? I really should make a notebook page for this game).

Sungura wrote:Someone pointed out my lack of analysis - I haven't even had time to make a notebook page yet for this game. I'm going to do that now. Also, I've learned whenever I talk a lot day one I get lynched or night killed, unless the mafia is good and can play me. Which cf, IS, and cycoden tend to be able to do because I catch on then wifom my thoughts about them and get all confused. All three are great at doing that to me. Luckily IS isn't in this game, and cf is mod, so I don't have to worry about either of them.

Sungura wrote:unvote

And I have lots of analysis now, but I'll wait for the newbies to arrive. I have two ideas for scum. Possibly more.

Sungura wrote:Dedalus - I have learned in these mafia games, "preview" is a good friend.

Oh I have the analysis done. I just was waiting for newbies to show and see what was going on.

I have a few strong inlkings. Here they are.

MoA: He started off by fishing for traitor information, not just once either, he kept at it during the start. Then he tells the cop not to claim. But it sounded like he was really looking for the traitor, but then doesn't want the cop to claim? This seems odd. He talked a lot, but seemed to always go along with the flow. Except when he came up with the LtL idea. Not bad in and of itself I still feel, but this looking at the looking for the traitor and such does not sit well. He's acting quite scummy, and like he does when he is scum. I got this same anti-town vibe from him in PB and in vanilla mini game. Both times, he was.

Azrael: Yes he tends to just vote, but I still don't understand why he jumped on silky and martin so hard and fast.

Entropy: He seems to do a lot of finger pointing at others. A lot. But yet he keeps a calm and even keel on things, which I find very disturbing. Usually if you are a finger pointer, it rocks the boat. So finger pointing with the quiet worries me. I just have a feeling. I voted on it earlier before Mega, actually.

Brooklynxman: I get a lot of bad feeling. He's playing it verrrry safe. Wants a good lead, but if not, LtL. But you know, he doesn't trust MoA either. His opinion is bouncing around, changing with the moment. He doesn't come up with an idea and stick to it letting others influence as the game switches, but instead bounces with each new fling.

MartinW: Poor guy, folks were jumping all over him. I know this is meta to those who don't know him, but seriously, his avatar is a bulldog - and it's how he plays. I really find no issue with him thus far in the game.

Silknor: Jumps on Martin a lot, but so what. I honestly don't get any bad feelings against him or martin. People who were convinced one or both are scum...yeah I don't see it.

So...based on my theories, and since lurkers are being cared for, I would be more than happy to vote for any of the following:
MoA, Entropy, Brooklynxman

I'm not sure just which yet, hence you see no vote here. Leaning MoA at the moment as if history repeats I usually have the right read on him.

Sungura wrote:Right now I see him as a newbie that doesn't know what the heck he's doing. But he's talking and such, so that's good. Rather not dissuade that, and I think there are at least those three more viable lynch candidates.

Sungura wrote:I've never played a game with Master Rahl so I wouldn't know. I think of a lot of the folks in this game as newbies. :|

Sungura wrote:Okay. But still the fact remains, he's new, if anything to me. I have nothing to gauge him by. That was my read on him. I still like the other canidates better than him even with that information, because that is what my read is. You don't have to agree.

Sungura wrote:Vote: MoA

Yeah, not buying the defense.

I won't answer unless others want me to. Pulling that out has the chance of making me an easy target, as has been discovered. You'd only want to ask that if you were scum or mafia supporter (oh gee look at what role is in this game - a supporter!) but if you were actual scum you'd know the answer to that either way as we have no independents in the list. Then again just asking can get all WIFOM'y on that. Any way you look at it, I don't like it. I was leaning you over the other two before, that post clinched it for me.

Sungura wrote:In reply to Korora's post:

What I thought was odd is it seemed like he wanted the traitor to claim, and the cop to not claim.

As for Entropy, if I have time later I'll see if I can get quotes. I just did a search on his posts and that's what I noticed. Maybe finger pointing isn't the right word....I dunno how to describe it. It's mostly a vibe I get from him, and I do pay attention to my gut in these games.

Sungura wrote:
Rakysh wrote:
b.i.o wrote:
Yeah, that was a dick move and not really name-cleary.

Oh please. I hate this tactic myself, but it's not as if he's the first one to do this, or even the first one to do it recently.

He's the first one in a game I've been in to explicitly ask, and the fact that others may do it doesn't make it ok.
Not a lot of others do it. Mainly, it's Gojoe, Kells, sometimes cf. Mostly Gojoe. The difference is Gojoe and I have an easy time, for whatever reason, reading each other. He knows how and when to ask. He's never asked when I'm a major power role. He never asks when I'm mafia. He only asks when I'm vanilla town. How he figure that out, who the heck knows. So yeah, he gets away with it. Maybe call it an inside joke or something (whatever things like that called - that one or two people can get away with doing because they know the history and how to do it right.)

What MoA did was a huge defense post extolling his townieness and then tried to cast all suspicion on me by asking if I am town. His reply to my thoughts is what warant my vote against him over the other two I have inklings are anti-town.

Sungura wrote:After this post of yours (on pg 6 when you first asked):
Dromtry wrote:Please don't call people by names that aren't their usernames ere on the forum. This is my first game, and I have no clue who 'Amy' is.

These were the next two:
Korora wrote:Amy is Sungura.

vieto wrote:but Amy was her user name.


No one is hiding anything from you Dromtry :| you were told right away after you asked. ;)

Sungura wrote:I know it's night but I haz question.
Did you miss Kell's vote by accident or on purpose?












Sungura wrote:Hahaha well assuming standard game, the mafia took out their supporter. I like that.

Well second on my list was BLM I think. I shall double check but I suspect my vote will go on him.

Sungura wrote:Okay, yes, Brooklynxman was my other choice of mafia day one. Re-read confirms it, I remember thinking I would switch my vote then I didn't get on for about a day and missed the deadline. So. I think most of the arguement against him was made day one. I was convinced yesterday that MoA or BXM or possibly both were mafia. Since MoA is town, by my logic then BXM is mafia. He continually made statements that sounded scummy yesterday and he also posted a few hole-y logics. (That would be what I have in my notes on him and confirmed by my quick re-read). A lot of work was done day one around him, just look at the last couple pages for the more in-depth arguments I don't feel the need to rehash.

And for those of you who may say I am just trying to rush day 2, well I do this for a few reasons:
1) Get discussion started again after a long night
2) Make you all re-read and figure out what you think
3) Since I (and many others based on the votes yesterday) believe him to be scum, we can of course analyze today's votes with yesterday's to pull out more scum.

Therefore, Vote: Brooklynxman

Ninja Edit: Also...Az pinged me some yesterday and now this pings me too.
Fail all 'round.

Go us.

Erm...the way the "Go us" is makes him sound mafia to me. The town didn't fail, we had legit concerns of MoA and if anything the waters are now much less muddy. The mafia is what really had fail. And the town didn't fall all 'round because there is a mafia supporter dead, even if the scum took him out for us, it's still not a fail.

Sungura wrote:
korora wrote:
Sungura wrote:Re-read confirms it, I remember thinking I would switch my vote then I didn't get on for about a day and missed the deadline.
PING! More later!
?? I can't wait to see this one.

Sungura wrote:
b.i.o wrote:
Azrael001 wrote:MoA cracked under the pressure that we put him under.

MoA did exactly what he always does when he gets accused. I have no idea why this was at all surprising.

Sungura wrote:I was convinced yesterday that MoA or BXM or possibly both were mafia. Since MoA is town, by my logic then BXM is mafia. He continually made statements that sounded scummy yesterday and he also posted a few hole-y logics.

His posts yesterday got WIFOM-y as hell, yes, but your logic is not sound. You're saying: A or B. Not A. B. The problem is that you can't verify that 'A or B' is actually true. Your analysis day 1 helped get one bandwagon going. Lets not start another one yet.

I'm not talking logic as in that form, I am talking in analysis of interactions between and against and around the two. That is what makes it clear to me. You can't always use a simple three step logic process to determine things. Also, don't blame bandwagons on me. I analyze. What people do with my analysis is up to them. Anyone who analyzes a lot will get blamed for bandwagons, but I just get sick of it.

Sungura wrote:Okay bio, just making sure. I guess I get a little sensitive because lately people have been ticked at me whenever I analyze.
I'm still waiting to hear about whatever Korora thinks is so scummy about me.

Sungura wrote:The last like...oh...five? forum games I've played people have said I've played more aggressive or different or something. I dunno what is changed really except I do more follow through on analysis.

Sungura wrote:
korora wrote:
Sungura wrote:Okay, yes, Brooklynxman was my other choice of mafia day one. Re-read confirms it, I remember thinking I would switch my vote then I didn't get on for about a day and missed the deadline.
You didn't just vote for MoA, you led the bandwagon on him, and he came back town. And now you're trying to diffuse the blame by claiming that you conveniently missed the deadline, when your vote would have swung the outcome. That just doesn't strike me right, and really, it's not a tactic a townie needs to use. That's the tactic of someone who knew they were lynching town all along.

It also really doesn't help that you posted four times in Clue in the 12 hours before the deadline.

After you started the MoA train, you carefully avoided participating in the ensuing discussion, which is worse than lurking as far as I'm concerned. I questioned your analysis and you ignored it, although you did poke your head to clarify the "Amy" mystery. I'm still waiting to hear about Entropy from you.

I still think Brook is scum, but at this point I think that you are too.

Already addressed the bandwagon issue, that's not my fault. You're grasping at straws there.
You can't debate what I was thinking and didn't have time to post so I'm not going to even go there.
Clue was a new game with new info coming out. I don't always have time to spend on every game. When I catch up in a game, I post is about how I do it. Then I know where I have read up to. Amy name clearing up was long before the actual deadline and I knew to switch my vote I needed to do a re-read, which I ran out of time for. I don't regret lynching MoA - other than the fact he turned out town - but yesterday even if I had switched my vote he was still a completely viable target for a lynch as he was being very scummy. At the point at the end of the day, with how divided it was, no matter how things turned out the other would have been under suspicion today, and I doubt this game would move on until both are taken care of because everyone will always wonder and question and that will hinder our progress.

What is this about Entropy?

Sungura wrote:Well considering I have completely forgotten what you are talking about it must not be that much anymore. :P

I'll go back and look again.

But, eh, should I? I mean, if I come up with stuff, are you just going to blame more on me if he gets lynched? I find it odd you question my analysis accuse me of bandwagon leading and then ask for more analysis. :?

Sungura wrote:I NEVER SAID I DID NOT LOG IN.

C'mon, don't missquote me. If you are going to make a case, do so on true grounds not by claiming I said stuff I didn't.

Honestly, I'm just getting sick of analyzing because in every freakin' game when I do I just get killed anyway or people get ticked at me. It's not worth it. I can tell when I'm getting done and fed up with games, and this is one. Later tonight when I have my notes on me I will go re-read stuff and post my suspicions, something I didn't have time to do in PB, and if you want I will even vote myself. I am not a bad loss to the town other than it being a number down. I'd rather it be Brook 'cause I really think he's scum, but if we aren't going to get an actual scum it might as well be me. Just do me a favor and don't bandwagon me until later tonight after I analyze. Because if I don't I will kick myself for not doing it as I have many times before. Honestly though, why do you think people don't really analyze and then games die? Because those who do are killed early on as they are blamed for every bad lynch that happens. That is as much as a problem as people being lurky.

Sungura wrote:Thanks for the backup from some folks. I'm glad I'm not crazy in what I'm seeing/feeling here.
Bio - called venting for some of it. This has happened in the last about five forum games I've been in, it gets old fast.

Anyway, both korora and bio keep saying they will post more analysis about me and don't, so at this point I'm just going to kinda ignore their rants on me until they post something substantial and worth defending against because this measly stuff is just distracting and muddying the water, and honestly looking back at day one reason moa got lynched was because of how muddying he was being. Muddying is normally a heavy scum tactic. So actually, korora and bio, IGMEOY both.

Heavier player analysis/thoughts still incoming, as I am now actively modding in SMCM as well as I have invitational going and both those games are in heavy mod mode so I don't have time to go through this thread quite yet.

I still think lynching Brooklynxman is our best lynch today in my quick re-readings.

Sungura wrote:
Azrael001 wrote:Kells is injured is she not?

Yes that too, her dominant hand (I think left, yes?) is prettymuch immobile right now so she's not typing really at all. I think between that and it being finals week we can cut her some slack.


Day 1
You say that you're not an early voter and you also say that you find Az suspicious for voting early. Fine up until now. But then you vote for Entropy without a whole lot of explanation--passing it off as gut feeling. Normally I'd find nothing suspicious about this--I do it all the time--except that you've just said that you don't vote early. Then, with no explanation, you unvote, and vote for Mega because she's lurking. Half of your posts up to this point are also unrelated to the game at hand.

After that, there's some general arguing about the validity of lynching lurkers. You say there's nothing wrong with it, but don't respond to any arguments to the contrary. You then do your analysis, and then vote for MoA after he defends himself.

After this, you make three posts day 1. You reply to korora, saying you'll get reasons you found Entropy suspicious if you have time (which you didn't). You discuss why you're not answering MoA's question about your alignment. And then you tell Dromtry who you are. Three posts, two of them very soon after your vote and one irrelevant. Five real-life days between your vote and the end of the day. There's a huge gap here, and I don't think you can give a good explanation for it. If you could you would have done so already rather than repeatedly ignoring me.

Day 2
This is now, I don't think we really need much of a refresher. You've stated repeatedly that people have been treating you differently, and then get angry at us for suspecting you. I might be a lot more inclined to believe that I shouldn't take your "ranting" seriously if you hadn't done in in the last two games I've played with you (one of which you left). It's getting seriously old.


I found your play early day 1 odd. The contradictions, the vote-hopping. Both are unusual for you. This was enough for me to put you on the list of people I was initially suspicious about, although not enough to make me vote for you. Then we get to late day 1. Here I find your complete lack of play astonishing. You made the post that started the MoA bandwagon, and then you contributed absolutely nothing to the game for the rest of the day. Whether or not it's your fault a bandwagon started is a non-issue. One did start, and there was lots of discussion you were conveniently absent for.

I find your play day 2 deceptive and obnoxious. You keep ignoring the parts of posts you find it convenient to ignore.


Unrelated:
Getting scum vibes from Kipper and Vieto.


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