[Normal] Frogzombie - Town win

[Not A Raptor]

If this were a bastard game, it would've been billed as a bastard game. People don't tolerate surprise bastard games too well.

[keeneal]

I ought to be listed as a vote-counter. Go check the sign-ups. That was a simple mis-count - it took a while to re-count it once I caught the error and then the nina-check failed. Had it worked I wouldn't have posted the edit.

4 tastelikecoke - Not A Raptor, dotproduct, KrazyerKate, _infina_


18 players, 10 to lynch

[_infina_]

Sorry, forgot to double-check the sign-ups. That is the only place you are listed though. It might be a good idea to get that changed. It was highly confusing.

[keeneal]

You forgot to check the sign-ups; I forgot to check the page number. I say we call it even.

[tastelikecoke]

So, infina voted RoadieRIch. I complained that it is a bad idea, so he votes for me.

Goddamn karma.

I dont know how will I defend myself now. I request however that you please warn me If I am going to get lynched soon.

[Not A Raptor]

So, infina voted RoadieRIch. I complained that it is a bad idea, so he votes for me.

Goddamn karma.

I dont know how will I defend myself now. I request however that you please warn me If I am going to get lynched soon.

6 votes until the lynch. It'll probably be a while, if at all. You may yet prove yourself to be something better than a source of wine. At the least, this post doesn't seem to have too much of it. One data point in, oh... how many posts have you made in this thread so far? *checks*

At least nine. Yeah, one in nine is still a poor show. Then again, it's day one.

[frogman]

milkybee93, according to the list of members, no longer exists. Replacement time!

EDIT: Also, I would have told you if this was a bastard game.

[PhoenixEnigma]

Well, I've never been a big fan of a TLC lynch to start with, and if TLC's further posts are like the most recent, the case there is getting even weaker.

Looking at other people, infina's vote seems a little off, but they've explained it as trying to get more out of RR, and give that a)that is kind of needed, b)there were no other votes for him and c)it's day one, I don't really see a problem with that. More interesting to me is KrazyerKate's vote for TLC - it's basically plain bandwagoning, on what I consider a pretty poor lynch anyways. Combined with a reasonable lack of content from KK (can we call you KK?), that's enough to get me to

Vote: KrazyerKate

for now. Given that I don't think KrazyerKate has played much mafia, though, it could all be chalked up to inexperiance, so I'm still open to other options if they come up.

[mister k]

I'm gonna lynch someone who has been active lurking. RR has managed two posts, both pretty weak sauce, but has done a tiny bit of spec. DP has managed similar, his most recent post was an easy vote for TLC, not particularly useful as it goes, and an easy move for scum to make. Weiyalo has failed to have much to say all game.

I'm gonna

vote:dp

I feel like I could vote for anyone I've listed above, however.

[mpolo]

I would really like to play a game were jumping onto a lurker lynch wasn't the only thing available to us on day one.

I'm going to hang on to tomorrow in the hopes that I manage to do some re-reading.

[weiyaoli]

Tbh I still think tlc was joking pretty much which although annoying I just ignored mostly. I don't get why people are voting him for being annoying and confusing. I suppose if you want to lynch someone like that you probaly should do that D1 but nothing he said has pinged me in any way which I'll admit is somewhat to do with confusing statements that I don't really understand what he is trying to say.

The thing with all frogzombie spec is that we won't really know for sure until D2 or N1 at teh very least.

[Brooklynxman]

Vote: Krazierkate

Bandwagoning and such.

As for TLC: D1 is the day to take care of that if we are going to, but I don't know if I want to.

[Not A Raptor]

I'm going to have to agree with the KrazierKate crowd: that vote did seem like inexperienced scum hopping on a bandwagon..

Good news, KK. We have a better idea. Bad news (for you): It's you.

Unvote

Vote: KrazierKate

[KrazyerKate]

*sigh*, I was worried that'd make me look scummy.

Someone said I wasn't being active enough earlier, and there's been one or two 24-hour periods now where there was absolutely no discussion, so I thought I'd be a bit more aggressive in voting so we could keep the game moving. Van earlier looked to me like he was just trying to break the ice, but several people pounced on him, and it looks like a similar thing's happening to me. I guess I'll lurk more, be patient, and let the experienced players work it out.

[frogman]

3 Tastelikecoke - KrazyerKate, dotproduct, _infina_
3 KrazyerKate - Not A Raptor, Brooklynxman, PheonixEnigma
1 dotproduct - mister k

[KrazyerKate]

Oh, and I'll
unvote Tastelikecoke
because this post looks a lot more reasonable now that I'm the one getting antsy.

[jayhsu]

*sigh*, I was worried that'd make me look scummy.

Someone said I wasn't being active enough earlier, and there's been one or two 24-hour periods now where there was absolutely no discussion, so I thought I'd be a bit more aggressive in voting so we could keep the game moving. Van earlier looked to me like he was just trying to break the ice, but several people pounced on him, and it looks like a similar thing's happening to me. I guess I'll lurk more, be patient, and let the experienced players work it out.

That's not something you really want to tell people.

I agree with your Van analogy and I think I'm generally convinced of your newness though, for now. I find that most people's scumdars are not very accurate at all. Though your vote didn't really have much substance...

Hm.

For the time being, I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I think if you survive the day, the cop (if there is one) will be knocking.

Just make sure you give adequate reasons for voting for someone (unless it's very much implied/obvious).

[mpolo]

And don't lurk, for goodness sake! If you're a townie, it is in your interest to be active, keep discussion alive, not allow the scum to hide behind the active players. If you're scum, well, from a game-theoretic point of view you shouldn't lurk because around here, someone will notice and move to lynch you at once. Although, if you are scum, you can go on lurking as far as I'm concerned. It will make it easier to lynch you.

That said, I don't have all that much to add to the conversation. I think that all of the mini wagons we've had up to now are somewhat ill-advised and hasty. There has to be a better target out there. Tomorrow is going to be a little tight (extra school holiday, and I want to get out of the house), but I'll try to check in at least in the evening.

[_infina_]

Okay, from what I know of d1's, we have the best chance of hitting scum by rolling a d20. We should just pick someone to lynch. The slower the game moves, then the number of lurkers will increase. I see no reason to change my vote, so it stays on TLC. I see no better choices, and wanting a nl is scummy.

[RoadieRich]

Ok, let's actually try to post something constructive. Those with access to FaiD will have a pretty good idea of why I really don't want to do anything that requires much thought.

Analysis on KrazyerKate

Spoiler:

So do we lynch the AWOL guy because he isn't here to defend himself, or do we act as if he's innocent until he comes back because even is mafia he won't be casting any nighttime votes?

I'm not too sure about this post. Lurker lynches are a reasonably good tactic for D1, so this post could be seen as having two scummy elements to it: suggesting we don't lynch a lurker, and a defence of someone who is admitted to be possibly scum in the same post.

I thought we were supposed to lynch the least-active players first, not the most-active.

That's a very mafia-like thing to say, isn't it? Rushing along a lynch? I won't vote because last game convinced me that he's just stupid, but even if he is townie I don't want anyone around who is too eager to bandwagon.

The first line is a direct contradiction of her first post, flip-flopping on who to lynch is often seen as scummy. Is flip-flopping on tactics also seen likewise? The second paragraph is in response to TLC, and should therefore be taken with a pinch of salt. Most of what he says is of no benefit to anyone other than Scum, as we see a potential example of here. However, if KK is a newb, she doesn't fall into a common pitfall of admitting extra knowledge, which would be easy to do here. (If he is townie vs As he is townie - ok, that's exaggerated, but YKWIM).

Spoiler:

I'm not inactive because I'm not paying attention, I'm inactive because I don't want to speak unless I'm sure I have something to add. Being an active player is a lot tougher than I thought it was.

I suppose the people I'm most inclined to vote for right now are Mister K and tasteslikecoke. Mister K's post here just sounds off to me. I don't know how much I can trust my gut when it comes to this game though, so if I'm the only one with that hunch then it's probably best to ignore it. I'm not the only one that is getting confused by tasteslikecoke, so maybe that's the best vote. I'd much rather go with the rational "hard to figure out what's going on with this guy so we should get rid of him" than the emotional "something doesn't sound right here".

The whole situation revolving around Van has me confused, so I'm not going near that until we get some more information about the parties involved.

Paragraph one could be read as saying "I'm not passive lurking, I'm active lurking." The reference to Mister K, I don't really know about, he'll probably be the subject of my next analysis. TLC I have already mentioned. Th last paragraph, asking for more information, is leaning towards the townie end of the spectrum, however.

Spoiler:

Since nobody seems to have a better idea, I'm going to go ahead and vote.
Vote: TastesLikeCoke

An easy vote, with No Apparent Reason behind it. (Which admittedly is better than him being out to lunch.)

Spoiler:

*sigh*, I was worried that'd make me look scummy.

Someone said I wasn't being active enough earlier, and there's been one or two 24-hour periods now where there was absolutely no discussion, so I thought I'd be a bit more aggressive in voting so we could keep the game moving. Van earlier looked to me like he was just trying to break the ice, but several people pounced on him, and it looks like a similar thing's happening to me. I guess I'll lurk more, be patient, and let the experienced players work it out.

Most people are not concerned with looking scummy on D1, if you've got nothing to hide, you've little to be afraid of. There's a lot of information provided, even in a mislynch. Remember that for the majority of players, it's not about winning yourself, it's about helping your team win, even if it does mean taking a bullet (or a rope aroud the neck). The second paragraph opens with "I'm not lurking. You all are lurking", which is a bit of a "Hey, look at them, not at me, no nothing to see by looking at me." Finally, there's another admission to lurking, which we've established is not helpful.

So, to summarise: I've been lynched for less scummy behaviour than this. We must however temper that with the knowledge that KK is still something of a beginner. So, without any further ado,
FoS: KrazyerKate
Unless her behaviour improves in the next couple of posts - or before the deadline, which ever is earlier - it'll turn into a genuine Windows Advantage Pack vote.

[RoadieRich]

EBWOP: just to make that clear:

FoS: KrazyerKate

Sorry if the post seems a little... silly in places. I'm trying to distract myself, as I sort of mentioned at the start of my post.

[Dr Ug]

Sorry about inactivity recently. Large dose of RL.

TLC: (/J'oJ II). I really don't like playing with erratic players, and I can see TLC's behavior so far mimicking the J'o'J of old (he has improved in recent games). I hope this will change soon, and hopefully some of the advice (especially that from Lataro) gets taken. So, whilst I agree he is hard to read at present, it is better to lynch someone we think is scum (if there is such a person) rather than someone who's play is confusing.

So, on to someone who I think is scum.

I can definitely see the points against KK. She advocated a lurker lynch, very early D1. She basically said (twice) that she plans on active lurking. This is both a scummy activity, and a bad activity if one is town. As for voting without a reason, this is also scummy, but in the post before her vote she did state her opinion on TLC (even if it wasn't in much detail, and mostly just summarising other people's feelings).

I suppose the people I'm most inclined to vote for right now are Mister K and tasteslikecoke. Mister K's post here just sounds off to me. I don't know how much I can trust my gut when it comes to this game though, so if I'm the only one with that hunch then it's probably best to ignore it. I'm not the only one that is getting confused by tasteslikecoke, so maybe that's the best vote. I'd much rather go with the rational "hard to figure out what's going on with this guy so we should get rid of him" than the emotional "something doesn't sound right here".

That being said, the combination of these 3 points make me lean towards newbie scum, rather than just newbie.

Vote: Krazyerkate

[Van]

I should apologize, I keep peeking at this thread and going "nothing much has happened, I'll post tomorrow" except I've done that like, 3 times now. Unfortunately I'm going to work in 10 minutes, so I'll have to say tomorrow once more.

[mpolo]

I know what you mean, Van.

I'd really like to hear from KrazyerKate -- at the moment the arguments for her(?) scummitude are pretty strong. She advocated a lurker lynch very early (neutral to scummy, depending), and has gone into deep lurk mode and indicated her willingness to stay in this mode. Lurkiness is not helping the town, whether you are town or scum. Come back and play with us, Krazyer!

[felltir]

Vote: KrazyerKate

I think the reasons given are good enough for this

I will come do more later, my last exam is later today

woohoo

[mister k]

mm, don't buy this lynch. I've been lynched for the same reasons as KK is going to be before, and not been scum. Its quite easy to start voting, then get voted for, then unvote, and then have everyone believe that you're scum. Jumpiness is a sign merely of caution, and I really wish people would stop thinking its a scum tell, because it keeps getting me lynched when I'm town!

My vote stays on dp, for mostly lurking and then weak voting.

[tastelikecoke]

I don't think KK is just merely cautious, he unvoted after a bunch of criticisms flooded him. That's not cautious at all, he totally didn't explain why he voted me.

[jayhsu]

This doesn't remind you of Transformafia at all, TLC?

[KrazyerKate]

I'm leaning more toward TLC's innocence because being impatient seems less scummy to me due to recent events. I can relate to TLC wanting to count the votes, move on to Day 2, and get some new information. However, rushing to vote is apparently a great way to freak people out, and that discomfort with eager voters threatened Van first, then TLC, and now me. I'm still not clear whether that discomfort is a good thing or not, which is why I kind of flip-flop on the issue. Who's worse for the town, impatient people leading votes prematurely, or quiet people not doing or saying anything?
Anyway, that's what I meant by 'lurking', that I'm going to be a bit more wary of pushing any votes unless I'm absolutely certain that the person is scum. It's a loaded word, and I shouldn't have used it. It seems like the rest of you guys dislike people on the "premature votes" end of the spectrum more than the people on the "discussing but not really acting" end. When I voted I was aware of this, and I thought it might come back to bite me later in the game. I just hadn't thought it would come back so soon. In the future, I'm going to try to tone back the impatience a bit.

But only a bit. I do think that we should choose somebody despite not having nearly enough information. It doesn't look like the game was going anywhere before I voted.

There's a lot of information provided, even in a mislynch. Remember that for the majority of players, it's not about winning yourself, it's about helping your team win, even if it does mean taking a bullet (or a rope aroud the neck).

I had hoped to survive a bit further than just day 1 so I could learn more about how the game works, but I agree with the logic here. When my lynch result comes up "town", the rest of the group will have something to base further discussion off of. It looked like TLC was the best candidate for lynch-testing (hence my vote), but I guess if I'm looking more suspicious, that's fine. Either way, one of us is just going to be glad it was the other guy.

[KrazyerKate]

dang, the line break didn't work the way I wanted after the first paragraph. Sorry for the large block of text.

[Brooklynxman]

I thought we had a good lynch target for D1, alas KK has acted townie of late.

Unvote

Square 1.

[Not A Raptor]

Townie how? Looks more like track covering to me. How often have you seen the "When I come up as town..." argument before?

[tastelikecoke]

I think we should wait for a replacement on milkybee before the day ends.

However, we have still a lot more passive lurkers abound. Let's go guys! Let's post!

[frogman]

milkybee will be modkilled if not replaced before day end.

Vote: KrazyerKate

Please remember to bold your votes.

4 KrazyerKate - Dr Ug, Felltir, Not A Raptor, PhoenixEnigma
2 Tastelikecoke - dotproduct, _infina_
1 dotproduct - mister k

[mpolo]

So, as long as Krazyer keeps playing, my major reason for being uncomfortable with her is gone. Similarly, tastelikecoke has improved markedly. Either improvement could be an act, but I am inclined to give the benefit of the doubt at the moment, particularly because they are newer players. NaR's continued harping on Krazyer seems misguided.

Which takes away both existing targets for now. As misterk pointed out, dotproduct has been somewhat lurky, and I would like to hear from him.

Otherwise, it's looking like it's time to review the thread.

[Two-Fry]

*volunteers as replacement*

[Dr Ug]

I find it interesting that mpolo twice gave advice to KK on how to avoid a lynch:

And don't lurk, for goodness sake! If you're a townie, it is in your interest to be active, keep discussion alive, not allow the scum to hide behind the active players. If you're scum, well, from a game-theoretic point of view you shouldn't lurk because around here, someone will notice and move to lynch you at once. Although, if you are scum, you can go on lurking as far as I'm concerned. It will make it easier to lynch you.

That said, I don't have all that much to add to the conversation. I think that all of the mini wagons we've had up to now are somewhat ill-advised and hasty. There has to be a better target out there. Tomorrow is going to be a little tight (extra school holiday, and I want to get out of the house), but I'll try to check in at least in the evening.

mpolo"]I'd really like to hear from KrazyerKate -- at the moment the arguments for her(?) scummitude are pretty strong. She advocated a lurker lynch very early (neutral to scummy, depending), and has gone into deep lurk mode and indicated her willingness to stay in this mode. Lurkiness is not helping the town, whether you are town or scum. Come back and play with us, Krazyer![/quote]And was unwilling to vote, even going so far as to say the arguements were weak. And then was very quick to accept that taking that advice is evidence of towniness.

Personally I'm not convinced, and if KK turns out to be scum, I'mma coming for mpolo.

[Dr Ug]

EBWOP: Er... broken quote tags:

I find it interesting that mpolo twice gave advice to KK on how to avoid a lynch:

And don't lurk, for goodness sake! If you're a townie, it is in your interest to be active, keep discussion alive, not allow the scum to hide behind the active players. If you're scum, well, from a game-theoretic point of view you shouldn't lurk because around here, someone will notice and move to lynch you at once. Although, if you are scum, you can go on lurking as far as I'm concerned. It will make it easier to lynch you.

That said, I don't have all that much to add to the conversation. I think that all of the mini wagons we've had up to now are somewhat ill-advised and hasty. There has to be a better target out there. Tomorrow is going to be a little tight (extra school holiday, and I want to get out of the house), but I'll try to check in at least in the evening.

I'd really like to hear from KrazyerKate -- at the moment the arguments for her(?) scummitude are pretty strong. She advocated a lurker lynch very early (neutral to scummy, depending), and has gone into deep lurk mode and indicated her willingness to stay in this mode. Lurkiness is not helping the town, whether you are town or scum. Come back and play with us, Krazyer!

And was unwilling to vote, even going so far as to say the arguements were weak. And then was very quick to accept that taking that advice is evidence of towniness.

Personally I'm not convinced, and if KK turns out to be scum, I'mma coming for mpolo.

[mister k]

hmm. Well theres been some activity since the last post, but nothing to persaude me to change my vote on dp, who hasn't just lurked, but also voted in a rather bandwagony way. I don't really know what to feel on the townly nature of people currently, but I do feel like day 1 should come to an end soon- we're going round in circles here I think.

[frogman]

Two-fry has replaced milkybee93.