[L] Buffy Mafia - Game Over: Chosen

For your simulated organized crime needs.

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tastelikecoke
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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby tastelikecoke » Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:40 pm UTC

TS wrote:My Spike is, like I said above, in his 'neutered' phase.
Could it be possible to shift from the neutered phase? Does the word "phase" means a time frame, Is it possible you will change into harmful scum later in the game? If that happens... it would be interesting.

My opinion on rhymes, they give good mud, but we don't know if there was any scum around them, And if we ignore them we might fare better chances
of getting scum tells.

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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby mister k » Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:54 pm UTC

I used the word palaver because I think its a fun word, and I enjoy words. Fer crying out loud. Seriously, I'm getting weirded out by this obsession on incidental detail here. Ryhming only produce mud if they were consistent (which they were not). Cycoden does still need to not alliterate, admittetly.

One thing worth noting on spike, if claim=tru claim, is that he was under the control of the First in season 7, a trigger phase could make him bad for a limited time, even when he had a soul.
Elvish Pillager wrote:you're basically a daytime-miller: you always come up as guilty to scumdar.

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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby mpolo » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:20 pm UTC

To tastelikecoke RE: Spike --

If I remember the details correctly, he was a bad guy in the early seasons. Then he was captured by a government agency, which put a chip into his brain, preventing him from harming humans. During this time, he started to fall in love with Buffy. Later, the chip starts to short out, so the heroes take out the chip, but don't trust him much. Then he goes to South America to get a shaman to give him a soul, and comes back, and ultimately proves his goodness by giving his life to save the world.

Then he comes back from the dead, but that's in Angel.
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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby roband » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:22 pm UTC

mpolo wrote:To tastelikecoke RE: Spike --

If I remember the details correctly, he was a bad guy in the early seasons. Then he was captured by a government agency, which put a chip into his brain, preventing him from harming humans. During this time, he started to fall in love with Buffy. Later, the chip starts to short out, so the heroes take out the chip, but don't trust him much. Then he goes to South America to get a shaman to give him a soul, and comes back, and ultimately proves his goodness by giving his life to save the world.

Then he comes back from the dead, but that's in Angel.


Well, at least there's no need for me to watch any of the series now..

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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby mister k » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:48 pm UTC

there is more to the show than its individual plot points. Buffy is a good enough piece of television that being spoiled doesn't dilute it, although it makes certain twists and turns a little less enjoyable.
Elvish Pillager wrote:you're basically a daytime-miller: you always come up as guilty to scumdar.

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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby ahippo » Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:14 pm UTC

I'm not biting. The wall very clearly stated that TS is scum. Not that the wall gave us any particularly good reason to trust it. But it was written in strawberry jam. How threatening is that? And Buffy recognized the handwriting. I know this has all been said, but I feel that TS's arguments are leading us on telling us one piece of the story at a time with bits and pieces of truth sprinkled in. Unless someone has a better target for D1.

Sorry for bringing it up again BUT

In DNL there was a public announcement of DL's scumminess. I defended him. He gave us one piece at a time of his story. At certain times he had nearly everyone convinced. But eventually, after much stalling and stammering, he was lynched. And guess what! He was scum.

My vote stays.

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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby Adacore » Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:53 pm UTC

Votals:

5 ThinkSweet (Mavketl, Two-Fry, vector, ahippo, Krong)

21 players, 11 to lynch.

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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby AngrySquirrel » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:56 pm UTC

Ok, I made up my mind.

Vote: Krong

He makes posts, but he's mostly restating what others have already said. All his posts are what I call "safe-posts". That would be posts that don't add anything new, speculates mostly on safe themes and implies rather than states. That along with a very safe vote is making my nose itch. I don't like it when my nose itches, so he's getting my vote.

Two-Fry is pretty high up on my list as well due to many of the same reasons, but overall he seems a bit better than Krong since he actually states that he thinks people are scum, rather than just implying it.

I might change my mind depending on what Lataro says about the Orb of Thessala and ThinkSweet, but for now I feel my vote belongs on who I think is the most scummy and at the moment that is Krong.
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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby Brooklynxman » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:19 pm UTC

Ummm.....Lataro gave me the orb. Why, when there was discussion of potentially turning Spike I don't know.

Or at least, someone gave me the orb and I am assuming it was Lataro.
We figure out what all this means, then do something large and violent

The thing about changing the world...once you do it the world's all different.

I'm Angel. I beat the bad guys.

Spoiler:
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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby Lataro » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:45 pm UTC

Arg, I was hoping for this all to be resolved before you said as much BXM.

In asking for clarification on using the orb, I was informed it was flavorful only, and had no power anymore. I was also informed that my powers alone could duplicate the effect it produced. As such, I passed it to BXM as there was no reason for him to not have it. I'm now under the assumption that dropped items appear as other players use them, and that confirming their use is the primary reason for their appearance, with the secondary being for BXM to gather them. Since no one else has claimed a need to gather the items, and since they appear to be primarily flavorful, I'd strongly be in favor of only BXM picking up items from here on in.

Back to TS though... I do not want to give scum the benefit of more information, for now all I can ask for is patience in lynching her for the moment. I hope to have this resolved soon.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby vector » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:02 pm UTC

Please replace me.
Come visit the Bay12 Mafia subforum: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=20.0

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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby Krong » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:07 pm UTC

Hmm, looks like TS did eventually show up.
ThinkSweet wrote:My Spike is, like I said above, in his 'neutered' phase. That is, with a chip meaning I can't harm humans, & with something aproaching love (of the very unhealthy kind) for Buffy. I am not currently town, and I am not mafia, and I am not a SK, I am vanilla but with hints that will change.

So here's the problem with this: You're saying that there's hints you could change to be a power town role, but I'm worried about the possibility that you could change to scum. Especially since you seem to be saying you're currently alignment-less (?). Getting you ensouled would be good, but I'm not sure how we can know if that's permanent (come to think of it, this might go for vector as well). If there is a possibility that you'd revert to scum at some point, it seems like we'd have to treat you like a miller the rest of the game. And in the meantime, we still have that anon-cop, which you're effectively denying by saying you're not scum.

This combined with... other things I'm seeing in thread, along with the benefits of learning something about the anon pm, make me still want to lynch you.

AngrySquirrel wrote:He makes posts, but he's mostly restating what others have already said. All his posts are what I call "safe-posts". That would be posts that don't add anything new, speculates mostly on safe themes and implies rather than states. That along with a very safe vote is making my nose itch. I don't like it when my nose itches, so he's getting my vote.

Yes, I have been making safe posts so far. Especially on the matter of whether we should try to lynch TS before the Thursday deadline. The reason should be pretty obvious -- a quicklynch (of someone who hadn't posted) to end the day before kills became active is either a very dumb idea or a very good idea, depending on what kills might be available due to the flavor. And as I'm sure you've read me saying, I do not know the flavor. I can't really add anything new from it, which is why I was looking for help. I understand the desire not to speculate on town powers, but pointing out that the Trio might be in the game and able to kill at day wouldn't require doing that.

As far as other matters go, I'm getting plenty of pings that two specific players are connected, but I believe they're masons (who should quit being so careless). There are a couple other players who seem to have some association with the anonymous strawberry message, but I obviously don't want to call them out in front of the class until we have some idea if TS was rightly or wrongly accused. Regardless of whether TS is scum or town (and don't get me wrong, I think she is scum -- a miller claim when heading towards lynch is just too convenient), I believe that we can learn a lot by lynching her and seeing what she turns up as.

Ninja'd by Lataro:

...and now a confirmed townie is saying not to lynch. Welp, time to do the safe thing again.
Unvote
Any idea how long it might be until you've resolved this, Lataro?

Ninja'd again:
...and now Angel is dropping. Hmm.
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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby ameretrifle » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:37 pm UTC

Busy though the Sunnydale Coroner's Office was, somewhat like a macabre pizza place, they prided themselves on getting their results out within 24 hours-- and the journalists and gossipers snapped it up just as quickly. Curious, the Sunnydale residents gathered around the latest edition of the newspaper.

Weiyaoli was The Master, Vampire Mafia, with the power to send minions to check for possible false roleclaims.

"Oh! Hey! Dead vampire!" exclaimed Willow.

"Wait a sec, isn't that guy dead?" said Xander. "I mean, more than normal? How is he back?!"

"Something weird's going on for sure," said Buffy. "Does... anyone know how they figured all that out from a little pile of ash?"

"Practice?" suggested Willow.

"...She's got a point there," said Buffy.

Knowing better than to question the expertise of the practiced Sunnydale coroners, the residents dispersed to ponder this news...

Votals:

1 Krong (AngrySquirrel)
4 ThinkSweet (Mavketl, Two-Fry, vector, ahippo)

21 players, 11 to lynch.

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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby tastelikecoke » Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:35 am UTC

@ahippo:
Remember that TS wants to be re-ensouled, She can be either scum or town, depending if she is ensouled or not. Or at least what she says.

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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby tastelikecoke » Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:38 am UTC

EBWOP: Also, The Master gone back from the dead then died?! Someone give us a rolespec. Other than that, My reaction's pretty much "Oh! Hey! Dead vampire!"

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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby Brooklynxman » Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:45 am UTC

HURRAH! The leader of the vampire mafia is dead (lets face facts, it would be like the donbot not leading the robot mafia).

Go town.
We figure out what all this means, then do something large and violent

The thing about changing the world...once you do it the world's all different.

I'm Angel. I beat the bad guys.

Spoiler:
Image

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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby Not A Raptor » Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:02 am UTC

This leaves me a little worried, though. We've really put a dent in the vampires... (mostly through luck...), but we have no leads as to the other anti-town faction, other than it's likely/possibly that one trio.
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Like Wizardry.

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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby ahippo » Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:14 am UTC

tastelikecoke wrote:@ahippo:
Remember that TS wants to be re-ensouled, She can be either scum or town, depending if she is ensouled or not. Or at least what she says.


Then do it. Make her town. My vote stays until I get word she's on our side.

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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby ahippo » Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:17 am UTC

Oh yeah. W00t! The Master is dead! I can only assume he is the leader as Brook stated. Great news.

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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby Lataro » Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:53 am UTC

I've gotten the info I was waiting on, I've sent the ensouling spell in. I was informed there may be some delay due to modly absence, but that something should be happening kinda soonish. Please look to other targets til the results are known.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby ahippo » Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:39 am UTC

This whole ensouling business is ridiculous. I mean really! Is there any sort of limit on the number of times it can be used in a day? If not then why isn't there just a big line forming of vampires who want souls? Seriously if there were no limit on the number of times it can be used, or certain vampires who can't be ensouled then town has to do nothing more than sit back and let one person at a time set up to be ensouled.

Ahippo is strutting down the sidewalk when he sees along the side of the road a large sign and a rather makeshift stand. Is some kid selling lemonade? Nope. On closer examination the stand says "Free Souls for Vampires! Open Sundown to Sunup"

Now I'm all for winning, but like this, it isn't a game anymore. It's a repetitive process. Now there's probably another scum group out there, but eliminating all the vampires in one day with one item without even killing them? That's either REALLY unbalanced, or it doesn't work that way.

So essentially there are two options.

1. The mods made a mistake by including this item with the powers you guys claim it has.
2. The people who use it are making false claims on its use.

But whatever. Use it as much as you like. I am not going to believe it worked until I see some solid proof.

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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby Brooklynxman » Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:42 am UTC

ahippo wrote:This whole ensouling business is ridiculous. I mean really! Is there any sort of limit on the number of times it can be used in a day? If not then why isn't there just a big line forming of vampires who want souls? Seriously if there were no limit on the number of times it can be used, or certain vampires who can't be ensouled then town has to do nothing more than sit back and let one person at a time set up to be ensouled.

Ahippo is strutting down the sidewalk when he sees along the side of the road a large sign and a rather makeshift stand. Is some kid selling lemonade? Nope. On closer examination the stand says "Free Souls for Vampires! Open Sundown to Sunup"

Now I'm all for winning, but like this, it isn't a game anymore. It's a repetitive process. Now there's probably another scum group out there, but eliminating all the vampires in one day with one item without even killing them? That's either REALLY unbalanced, or it doesn't work that way.

So essentially there are two options.

1. The mods made a mistake by including this item with the powers you guys claim it has.
2. The people who use it are making false claims on its use.

But whatever. Use it as much as you like. I am not going to believe it worked until I see some solid proof.

ahippo wrote:
tastelikecoke wrote:@ahippo:
Remember that TS wants to be re-ensouled, She can be either scum or town, depending if she is ensouled or not. Or at least what she says.


Then do it. Make her town. My vote stays until I get word she's on our side.


This makes me think you are a lyncher who wants Spike dead, as you will under no other cicrumstances accept that his alignment might change.

And TS claimed to already be town, the ensouling is just a sort of insurance.
We figure out what all this means, then do something large and violent

The thing about changing the world...once you do it the world's all different.

I'm Angel. I beat the bad guys.

Spoiler:
Image

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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby tastelikecoke » Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:53 am UTC

I still don't know why NaR was given a role-swapper and vector given Angelus, If the roles will be swapped at D1 quickly. That is, It sounds like Angel was supposed to be role-swapped.

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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby ThinkSweet » Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:26 am UTC

tastelikecoke wrote:@ahippo:
Remember that TS wants to be re-ensouled, She can be either scum or town, depending if she is ensouled or not. Or at least what she says.

I'm not scum, and I'm not going to become scum unless the scum has a recruiting mechanism. It would be more accurate to say I'm either town or independent depending on the soul thing. Although getting my soul back might not change me to town, I could stay independant but have altered win conditions or something ...

Also, @ahippo: I have given people everything I know about my role, I even told them about the change possibility, and I volunteered more info than I was asked for, so I don't think that just because you got burned in a similar situation in a different game that that's a good reason to lynch me. At least wait til tomorrow & ask buffy to visit me tonight, since she asked for people's opinions on who she should investigate. Also, I'm pretty sure as the only two vampires with souls in canon, only vector & I can get souls - and I think from what vector said she wasn't completely scum in the traditional sense as she didn't know the other members of her team - so I doubt any members of the vampire mafia could get souls.

I'll let everyone know when I get any PMs about the whole soul thing.
</rant>

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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby mister k » Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:59 am UTC

Brooklynxman wrote:
ahippo wrote:This whole ensouling business is ridiculous. I mean really! Is there any sort of limit on the number of times it can be used in a day? If not then why isn't there just a big line forming of vampires who want souls? Seriously if there were no limit on the number of times it can be used, or certain vampires who can't be ensouled then town has to do nothing more than sit back and let one person at a time set up to be ensouled.

Ahippo is strutting down the sidewalk when he sees along the side of the road a large sign and a rather makeshift stand. Is some kid selling lemonade? Nope. On closer examination the stand says "Free Souls for Vampires! Open Sundown to Sunup"

Now I'm all for winning, but like this, it isn't a game anymore. It's a repetitive process. Now there's probably another scum group out there, but eliminating all the vampires in one day with one item without even killing them? That's either REALLY unbalanced, or it doesn't work that way.

So essentially there are two options.

1. The mods made a mistake by including this item with the powers you guys claim it has.
2. The people who use it are making false claims on its use.

But whatever. Use it as much as you like. I am not going to believe it worked until I see some solid proof.

ahippo wrote:
tastelikecoke wrote:@ahippo:
Remember that TS wants to be re-ensouled, She can be either scum or town, depending if she is ensouled or not. Or at least what she says.


Then do it. Make her town. My vote stays until I get word she's on our side.


This makes me think you are a lyncher who wants Spike dead, as you will under no other cicrumstances accept that his alignment might change.

And TS claimed to already be town, the ensouling is just a sort of insurance.



ok yeah wow, maximum suspicion right there. Might be worthy of a thread re-read on ahippo, methinks. Re-ensouling vampires presumably will only work on these two occasions, and also there could be many more scum if its this easy for town to turn them to the good. I am still astonished that someone managed to day 1 kill the master. Wei had barely posted... its a bit... weird. But good weird I guess!
Elvish Pillager wrote:you're basically a daytime-miller: you always come up as guilty to scumdar.

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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby cycoden » Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:57 pm UTC

I am a little hung over; please excuse the disjointed nature of my thoughts here:

brook wrote:Anyway, since we are claiming things, I was told by the mod certain items will be dropped in the game. I need to pick up 3 of them in order to win with the town. Anyone who picks one up before I get 3 is scum in my book.
Do you know which items? Or are you expecting that all interesting props should be delivered unto you?

ahippo wrote:I would lean more towards, trust it, than disregard it. I'm gonna wait for ThinkSweet's response first. I think though, Mavketl had a good point. If Buffy knows the handwriting it may be townie. In fact (as this just occurred to me as I was writing this message) it could have been Willow. I mean, she was the one who brought it to them.

I expect that buffy could recognise the handwriting of all members of the scooby gang, so I doubt that a member of the scooby gang wrote it...

My thoughts on mavketl:
Mavketl wrote:
roband wrote:
cycoden wrote:Just a thought: the cryptic communique cursively crafted in coagulated crimson conserve could conceivablely be a mischeivious mod mechanic made to madly maim moronic malingerers...
Err, any reason for the alliteration?

If I'm going to be accused for rhyming, you can be sure I'm going to question this.
There is no way that I'm going to believe that that wasn't for some sort of flavour-bound reason (most likely post restriction).
Better believe, baby! (sorry)

mavketl wrote:but you're actively making it harder for town to track down scummy post restrictions.
Fair enough. I can confirm that the alliteration was done by my own free will and I was under no compulsion to do so.

But more importantly: what makes you so sure that being subject to a post restriction makes someone scummy?

wei wrote:I think I'd be happy to go along with it but I'm just not sure why people seem to be waiting for ThinkSweet to comment.

Mavketl wrote:That actually makes sense. Plus, how useful is a lurker going to be, anyway, even if they're town? (I think they're scum, though.)
Agreeing with the master. Not a good look....

And to answer wei's hypothetical: Thinksweet might be able to provide information or a defense. Even if we didn't buy it and lynch him, it might reveal some useful information that we can judge when his role and alignment is revealed...

Mavketl wrote:Maybe he shouldn't expect everyone to trust him on his word, with zero evidence that he is even town, let alone right. I know I don't.
True, but the same could equally apply to BXM...

vector wrote:I didn't actually have a win con stated... it's very odd. Sorry, but I think the most I'm going to be able to do is as a member of the town.
So the re-en-soulment caused amnesia? Because that doesn't really makes sense - Angel is very well aware of (and troubled by) his actions as Angelus...

roband wrote:
tastelikecoke wrote:Well it would be totally impolite to agree to a lynch without thinksweet's defense. It's not like thinksweet's actively lurking.

Also, I maybe paranoid too, but most of roband's posts lack a period at the end.


That's some indepth analysis. I'm a lazy typist. I honestly had to go back and check my own posts and it's not something I've ever noticed myself, but you're correct.

I'm going to be paranoid now and make sure I do put one there, each time.
TLC casts Grammaticus Nazius

.
Spoiler:
AngrySquirrel wrote:In addition to ThinkSweet and MrPete, I'd like to hear some more from Lataro.

I hate lurkers with a fiery passion, therefore I have no problems voting for lurkers. They wreck the game no matter what side they are on and waiting for them to chime in kills way too many games.

That said I'm not that interested in rushing into a lynch, I would love it if ThinkSweet would come around and say something, anything at all. On day 1 I am very easily persuaded to change my vote by people who show an active interest in the game.

However, out of our current lurkers. the most info we stand to gain by lynching, comes from lynching ThinkSweet. It will give us some info on if the public flavour is something useful or not, and I'd really like that sorted out as soon as possible.

Second on my list is MrPete. Simply because he hasn't said anything. This won't give us much info since noone has voiced an opinion on him one way or the other, but it will cut out a lurker and that's good in my book.

Lataro is third on my list because what he has said has been minimal and, since he usually is quite vocal, it makes me a bit nervous that his only contribution so far has been a pre-game joke-vote on Van, and second joke-vote on NaR once the day started.

Other than those 3, people are at least making posts, albeit some of them less useful than others. I however am not bothered enough to go check out them at the moment when there are 3 people already I consider decent targets for a lynch.
AngrySquirrel deserves a cookie. More people need to post their suspicions, and provide reasoning behind it.

My thoughts on Mr K:
mister k wrote:alright! So, 22 players and so many characters. So, its probably worth not speculating on town roles, and instead focusing on scum. The cast have so many variable powers that we can't take much for granted I think, and discussing it may just give the scum info.

The Late Master (wey) wrote:I think therefore that I agree pretty much with not going into great detail about possible town powers because it should be better for town if scum doesn't have much of an idea on what to expect powers-wise.
I mentioned this before, but in view of wey's death its worth noting that he was the first to support Mr K's argument (also: my impression is that wey is a relative newbie here - is that the case (I've been away for a bit)?)

mister k wrote:yeah, its a pretty strange move, trying to call out your target day 1. Its also a functional role claim, as theres only about two roles that fit with that kind of ability. This makes me fossy
The two roles you are thinking about: what were they?

mister k wrote:interesting. So either vector and NAR are who they say they are, or they're both scum working together. I'm inclined towards the former, but if one of them turns up scum that pretty much guarentees the other one is.
This post seems like its contributing, but its expressing a sentiment that I expect would be obvious to all - although vector makes a good point...

Mr k wrote:ooh, the one who backs up the Mayor. Whatever his name was. Him.
I will be highly amused if this is your role :P

mister k wrote:yay, discussion. This is just something that I've been considering re:speculation lately. I know the group concensus is currently that all speculation is all for the good, but I'm just wondering how much it will help the game. Speculating about the form of the scum is always going to be good- it won't give away information the scum won't know, and might inform town, as well as forcing scum to lie, which means they might get trapped in a mistake. I'm sure scum can make a mistake while talking about town roles, but I'm not sure how, certainly not in this set up anyway. I've seen a lot of theme day ones where everyone (including myself) spends most of their posts talking about what kind of roles town might have. The town have gained little from it, and the scum have succesfully produced content (big ol' spec posts) without actually helping at all.
Sure, but I would expect that the scum would be just as capable at producing fake scum speculation... and if you believe that scum will just produce big old spec posts in lieu of helping: wouldn't you be better off identifying the players who aren't helping and fingering them as scum?

Mr K wrote:mysterious messages written on the wall in jam? No, no particular show source springs to mind. This could be a public day cop, or it could be someone with the ability to send messages messing with us. I'm actually partially inclined to trust it- I'm not ready for day 1 to end, but an anonymous cop of someone who has failed to post yet? The utility of it being right is awesome, the utility of it being wrong is a dead towny. Unless said wall has the power to work out that think sweet is an awesome town role, it might be worth it...
Indecisive speculation...

Mr K wrote:Are we ready for day 1 to end yet? The disadvantage with lynching thinksweet (which we should probably do), is that it lets people get away without suspecting anyone else. I still want to hear from those people who haven't spoken enough yet, certainly.
I'm in two minds on this post - delaying the lynch at this point is probably a good idea (I think there certainly needs to be some more discussion of today), but the "(which we should probably do)" strikes of trying to provide cover should TS be lynched and be shown to be scum...

Out of the players who have actually contributed to the game, I guess I am somewhat suspicious of Mr K and mavketl (although to be fair, Mr K's more recent posts have tempered my suspicions of him somewhat). I'm a little suspicious of mavketl for making unjustified assumptions and agreeing with the master. Also, the players who seem to be happy to trust BXM but then jump on lataro strike me as odd. Especially in view of lataro's subsequent roleclaim...

Hmm. ahippo's outburst could be a little scummy (he seems a bit emotional about a weapon to be used against scum).
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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby tastelikecoke » Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:53 pm UTC

psychoden wrote:(also: my impression is that wey is a relative newbie here - is that the case (I've been away for a bit)?)

Not exactly, he usually posts every other day. Meaning most of his posts end up consisting of promises.


Matkvel wrote:I get the rhyming thing when the music/song demon was brought up, but after the responses to that, why would anyone deliberately cause more confusion in that way? By now it is not a harmless joke anymore. Especially after possible post restrictions have been discussed repeatedly.

Mtakevl wrote:There is no way that I'm going to believe that that wasn't for some sort of flavour-bound reason (most likely post restriction). The rhyming thing at least made sense with the context, this is just out of the blue. And shortly after people got flak for rhyming, so it would be a stupid moment to decide "hey, let's do some random alliteration - for fun!"

I suspect Drusilla. Can anyone think of another character that could cause this?

Big tells here, and why.
Rhymes stir up wine, but in my view of this, arguments with rhymes would redirect townies into more wine, and we'll keep arguing tons on alliterations, imagery and assonances. If scum argues about rhymes, there's more chance we will suspect a townie. and cycoden only made one post with an alliteration (two posts now :x ). I've seen post restrictions, and usually they are too obnoxious (look at Asylumafia) or too subtle (example, the word money on every post). cycoden's "post restriction" is in the middle. And way to go Makvetl, automatically pointing cycoden as Drusilla.

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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby AngrySquirrel » Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:29 pm UTC

Krong wrote:Regardless of whether TS is scum or town (and don't get me wrong, I think she is scum -- a miller claim when heading towards lynch is just too convenient), I believe that we can learn a lot by lynching her and seeing what she turns up as.

Only, she isn't claiming miller, she's claiming independent with a scummy sounding role-name.
tastelikecoke wrote:EBWOP: Also, The Master gone back from the dead then died?! Someone give us a rolespec. Other than that, My reaction's pretty much "Oh! Hey! Dead vampire!"

The Master

For those too lazy to read: the Master was the first big bad Buffy faced. His most notable followers are Darla (Angel's sire), Luke (aka The Vessel, killed early by Buffy, could restore the Master's powers during "The Harvest" by drinking people's blood) and the Anointed One (child vampire). The Master was the leader of the Order of Aurelius. He was trapped in a forcefield underneath Sunnydale after failing to open the Hellmouth. He also managed to kill Buffy once (although she got better).

Speculation on the Trio: I think it's likely that these are mostly active during the day since they aren't really demonic and I think they're probably scared of the dark. Anything tech-related is likely to be their work. One of them could summon demons, one could cast spells and the leader (Warren) was quite good at building technical gadgets. I'm worried that could mean they'd have an inventor power or similar. If anyone in Buffy-lore would fit with an inventor power it's Warren.

Other thoughts:
I really think our best shot at finding scum at the moment is to look at those who are trying to avoid drawing attention to themselves.

As to Weiyaoli, he didn't make many posts, the one he had of significance was the one where he voted for ThinkSweet (third on bandwagon!). He was followed rather quickly by Mavketl which puts Mavketl on my list of people to keep an eye on.

My current list of people to keep an eye on is:
Krong (reasons stated earlier, and general gut-feeling)
Mavketl (quickly followed Weiyaoli on vote)
Two-Fry (reasons stated earlier)
MrPete (too quiet, only 1 post so far)
ahippo (is taking this re-ensouling business very personally)

I need to think a bit and re-read a bit more. Might change my vote when that is done.
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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby ahippo » Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:50 pm UTC

Prove it to me. Prove that it works! Right now I don't really believe that ensouling has worked on anybody.

It seems to me that this could very well be vampires using a get out of lynch free card.

I'm not an angry scum. I'm a concerned townie. If they can just claim "oh no wait, I ensouled her" on every decent lynch target we have, we'll be swimming in a sea of vampires in no time. If they can use that to get out of a lynch then we'll never lynch a vampire and they can pick us off one cycle at a time + any other powers that could be used to kill.

So I guess the point I'm trying to make here is

1. Tell me EXACTLY how the orb works.
2. Give me proof that it works the way you say it does.

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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby Lataro » Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:56 pm UTC

My spell was successful, while I can not say for certain what effect it had, TS has been ensouled.

At this time, it would be a very bad idea to lynch her, as I will be very annoyed at having used my powers and then see that happen. I will state that my power works by designing a spell to be cast, and that part of my spell stated that if a vampire was the target of it, they would be converted to town.

At this time, til another cop power states otherwise, we should work under the assumption that TS is now town.

[stuff I'm not stating as 100% fact and is opinion]

As to ahippo, he does seem rather agitated from how I've observed him in past games... his repeated resistance to this, as well as annoyance that as he percieves it, so many scum have been converted, suggests to me that there is a good chance he could be annoyed scum.

[/stuff I'm not stating as 100% fact and is opinion]
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby ahippo » Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:13 pm UTC

The only thing is, I don't believe 100% that either vector or ThinkSweet have been ensouled. In fact I believe probably 30%

So, are there certain characters that can't be ensouled? Is this just some kind of crazy random happenstance that our public cop happened to cop Spike, the only other possibility for ensouling?

I'd be ready to believe what you guys say if I had proof. But as far as I can tell I'd have to take your word on it. And this is one thing I'm not ready to accept on faith yet. Why? Because if it isn't true the consequences are terrible for town.

Why is it that I'm the only person who even questions this? Are you all ready to accept it as fact?

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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby mpolo » Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:50 pm UTC

In the series, the only two examples of ensouling were precisely the two that we now have as claimed ensouled vampires. Actually, I think that the show lore was that Angelus was basically the only vampire who could possibly be ensouled because of a gypsy curse or something, but Spike went through a gauntlet of tasks to earn the right to also be ensouled. I'm probably not 100% right here.

ahippo's concerns seem to be coming from a townie-ish direction to me. I think that we can trust the ensouled vampires at least tonight, but then we need to be careful, because there are still a lot of things that could happen to re-convert them. Although they might be liabilities to the scum in the sense that if they convert again, they would likely get and keep inside information. As Lataro said, the orb wasn't actually used for Spike's ensoulment, so "exactly how the orb works" is "it didn't". It seems to be a prop from NaR using a power (the power?) that he was specifically given in his role.

Thinksweet is worried that that was too easy as well, but it seems to me the Mods actually intended to have NaR subtly looking for Angelus, and then upon finding him, re-ensouling him. NaR played very boldly, risking his own life in the process, on the gamble that Angelus' player would want to convert when given a chance.

Nonetheless, with the vampire conversions going on, I wouldn't be overly surprised if there were even 3 scum groups (Trio, Vamps, unnamed).

I suppose we should thank the Trio for taking out the Master, but I am pretty convinced that they are actually scummy themselves, so we have to identify and eliminate them. From the series, it would be most important to get Warren, the robotics guy, as he was the only really bad guy there -- the others were eventually redeemed in various ways.

I would repeat the call to the seldom-posting members of our Sunnydale Community to let us know what is going on in your thoughts.

Cycoden denied being under a post restriction and then added an alliterated line in the same post. It is written in a jokey way, and I am mostly sure that he doesn't have a restriction, but I'd really like to see a post from him without such playfulness. A post restriction doesn't necessarily point to scum, of course, but certain restrictions go well with certain roles, and so identifying any restrictions that might exist proves to be important. weyaoli has played in several games around here, so is not the newest, but also not the oldest player around.

As cycoden points out, mister k has got a certain degree of scummitude going there. I tend to read him very negatively, though, and I don't want to overreact to small things. As a result, I would tend to want to hear more before sending vote action that way.

Mavketi has been under my radar and will require a re-read.
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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby Van » Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:28 pm UTC

I'm lagging in this thread very badly (and everywhere else - I just broke 20 hours of sleep this week last night), so um.. sorry?

ahippo wrote:This whole ensouling business is ridiculous. I mean really! Is there any sort of limit on the number of times it can be used in a day? If not then why isn't there just a big line forming of vampires who want souls? Seriously if there were no limit on the number of times it can be used, or certain vampires who can't be ensouled then town has to do nothing more than sit back and let one person at a time set up to be ensouled.
[...]
1. The mods made a mistake by including this item with the powers you guys claim it has.
2. The people who use it are making false claims on its use.
I don't specifically disagree with your logic, but you seem to be off on info. Also, I can see something like this ending up in the game, but TPTB not forseeing NAR's "I am a fucking force of nature" gambit. Anyway, the Orb of Taquitos was apparently oneshot, so it isn't a de-vampiring device. On the other hand:

Lataro wrote:In asking for clarification on using the orb, I was informed it was flavorful only, and had no power anymore. I was also informed that my powers alone could duplicate the effect it produced.
The Orb of Telomeres was oneshot, and I believe someone (NAR?) said it was limited to use by his or perhaps one other role. And is a oneshot de-vampirizer.

Then there is Lataro, who is claiming that he can infinitely de-vampire (daily) without the orb, and he's previously said he's "essentially not NKable" (paraphrased). So... what? Seriously? I mean, that's great if it's true, but it seems way too good to be true. Am I missing something here?
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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby AngrySquirrel » Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:54 pm UTC

Van wrote:Then there is Lataro, who is claiming that he can infinitely de-vampire (daily) without the orb, and he's previously said he's "essentially not NKable" (paraphrased). So... what? Seriously? I mean, that's great if it's true, but it seems way too good to be true. Am I missing something here?

I think my scumdar just went "beep!"

You want to speculate on why someone who's pretty close to a confirmed pro-town power is "essentially not NKable"? Seriously? How is that going to help anyone other than scum?
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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby Van » Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:26 pm UTC

I'm not speculating on any specific element of his claim. I'm speculating that, as a whole, it doesn't make sense, and that I think he is lying about some or all of it. I especially don't trust the random roleclaim early D1. I actually don't think any of this makes sense, but let's tackle one reality-crushing problem at a time.

He picks up the orb, and handily happens to be one of the few (only?) people that can do anything with it:
Moreso, I was specifically informed that the only reason I could tell it was recently and successfully used was because I was magically inclined.


Then it turns out the orb is dead, but he also just so happens to be able to replicate it's function exactly, daily. It's like.. an army of NAR's role (without the guts of steel) and reverse culting or something. That does not seem balanced to me, so it makes me think he is lying. How would lying make sense? If he was going to un-vamp TS and suddenly found out the orb was dead, he could've just said "whoops, sorry, no can do" or.. whatever. The only reason he'd have to lie is if he was trying to continue an existing lie, that he had verified NAR's story and thus NAR/vector (and by association, him) were town now.

Except he passed the orb on to BXM, which seems to verify NAR's claim if nothing else. I don't think it particularly does anything for him though. If Lataro is telling the truth, we're almost definitely up against really bad odds, something that would require that kind of power as a balancer.

As an aside, how exactly is he confirmed pro-town power? Mavketl explained the workings of the Orb/de-vamping on page 2, the sphere appeared (and was taken) on page 4. He hasn't said anything that we didn't already know, that even I couldn't have fudged simply from reading the thread. He's claimed TS is de-vamped, which IMO doesn't prove anything unless one of them dies and comes up town, but I think I explained why I'm suspicious of that. If you didn't see it, I will restate it as: you show me one other game where a townie could "recruit" initially hostile people without limit. I'm pretty sure I haven't seen one. Ever. It's pretty common for people to be able to "recruit" others, though, and they're usually called cult.

You tell me: am I barking up the wrong tree? Does it actually make sense to you? Because it sure doesn't to me.
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You say that you disapprove of sex before marriage, but you are fucking that idiot. (Ad hominem.)
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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby AngrySquirrel » Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:50 pm UTC

Okay, let's take a recap, shall we? (I might get the order of this a bit wrong because I can't be bothered to go back and double-check it once again).

1. NaR claims he can re-soul Angelus.
2. Vector takes NaR up on the offer. Claiming Angelus (a claim that is quite risky for scum to make on the basis that it's rather scummy and draws attention.)
3. It is claimed that NaR has re-ensouled Vector. NaR heavily hints at being Willow (at least to those that looked up the lore on Angelus).
- At this point I could be led to believe NaR and Vector are working together. The claims seems rather stupid for scum to make, but ok, I can buy it.)
4. Flavour is posted that ThinkSweet is scum.
-a nice little band-wagon on ThinkSweet starts to form at this point. There is little reason for scum to do anything else at this point than to let it take its course. I expect several of the later votes here to be made by scum.
5. Lataro comes out, challenges NaR's implied Willow-claim. Also takes the orb, an item that Brooklynxman has said that he needs and that he'll find anyone who takes it from him scummy.
-basically derailing a bandwagon, drawing lots of attention to himself and provoking several people.
6. NaR goes "Yes, you're right, I'm not Willow, I am Jenny Calendar." Confirming that Lataro's counterclaim wasn't as crazy as it first seemed.
7. Lataro tells people he can re-ensoul one more vampire.
8. ThinkSweet goes "Alright, I'm Spike, not really scum, more independent, but I'd be happy to be re-ensouled if it would keep people from lynching me."
9. Brooklynxman says he's recieved the orb from Lataro
10. Lataro claims ThinkSweet has been re-ensouled (by other means than the Orb).

My thoughts on this:
1. This is much too complicated and involves far too many people to be a scum plot.
2. Scum won't draw attention to themselves on day 1 unless they've got a very good reason for it or are semi-crazy.
3. Aggressive play is in general pro-town play.
4. Lataro derailed a bandwagon. If he had been scum he could easily have just leaned back and let it roll. Instead he chose to provoke several players, draw attention to himself and otherwise strut about like he owns the place. Scum don't do that, especially not on day 1.
5. There are probably mechanics here that we are not aware of. Knowing these mechanics does not necessarily aid town, but I'm pretty sure they'd help scum figure out how to counter the re-souling.

Maybe "pretty close to a confirmed pro-town power" was the wrong choice of words. I have my notes and I tend to forget that others don't read my mind. Sorry about that. However in my opinion Lataro is the one who has played the most pro-town so far in this game. And if the resouling-business were cult-recruits there's absolutely no reason for anyone to be so open about it.

So to answer your question Van; yes, I do think you're barking up the wrong tree.
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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby cycoden » Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:37 am UTC

This post does not contain alliteration.

Happy?



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Spoiler:
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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby Not A Raptor » Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:14 am UTC

Vote: Cycoden

Spreading wine unnecessarily, lack of content in the meantime. You're distracting us and I don't like it.
Van wrote:I like simple games.

Like Wizardry.

WARNING: Is acting like NaR.
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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby ahippo » Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:13 am UTC

If you think about it, it doesn't have to be one, extremely elaborate, extremely convoluted, plot. Just scum playing off townies to spread lies and lots of confusion D1. There's SO much potential for that given what NaR started with vector.

So I tend to disagree with AngrySquirrel. Especially considering there's certainly still the possibility that Lataro is false-claiming (I mean unkillable?) and he never did a thing to TS. It was just a way for scum to keep scum alive by claiming that you did the same thing they did.

Upon further examination though, I would say that NaR may have done as he said. So then by transitive property that makes vector good. But my guess is the rest of this is pure bogus.

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Re: [L] Buffy Mafia - Day 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth

Postby Lataro » Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:02 am UTC

That... pretty much it. ahippo, I have no idea what you are on about, but you are completely ignoring the fact that I've uncontested claimed Willow, and specifically said that if a counter claim had been made, I was going to use my power to kill that person. Doing so would reveal their role on death. If I was lying, it'd be made abundantly clear at that time.

As for your comments on my unkillable status, stop trying to give scum more info.

Vote: ahippo

vote based purely on my suspecting him based on his continued aggressive actions, and not on any confirmed info.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."


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