[Mini] Somnambulist Amnesia - Game Over: The Town Wins

[Lataro]

The problem with a NL here is that we are relying on kill powers then to give us new information, rather than collectively choosing a target, as pointed out, if the last cop is killed, we'll be worse off D3 than we would be if we had just lynched someone today.

As to how to proceed exactly, I feel like we are at a loss for real discussion. There are a number of people who I keep forgetting are playing, and while I haven't been the most active today, I am not alone in that. We need to step it up people, else we'll languish forever here with just a couple people leading the discussion.

Vote: Entropy

Because I'm looking for some posting here. From memory, he seemed to be a pretty big offender D1 of lurking, in addition to today.

[roband]

I'm just pretty confused as to how we can even attempt to track whose role is what both before and after the night.
I think this might be just a tiny bit past my logical abilities

[roband]

Okay, now onto a little flavor analysis. Felltir had the only female role, and the flavor mentions stabbing a woman that kept changing as she died. At first, I thought this meant a switcher had targeted him and the switch went through after (or maybe before?) the kill did. But, upon further reflection, the flavor possibly was just indicating Felltir's potential to change into a different role. I would continue down this line of thinking and list what I see as possible scenarios that would produce a dead scum switcher, but still think scum benefit more from figuring out stuff about the roles, so I will stop. Let's just continue with the strategy of picking targets you think might be scum. Before we can do that, we have to find someone to lynch, of course.

Any thoughts yet on who to lynch?

What makes you think that Felltir was the only female role? I can see nothing in the flavour which points towards that.

[BigNose]

Okay, now onto a little flavor analysis. Felltir had the only female role, and the flavor mentions stabbing a woman that kept changing as she died. At first, I thought this meant a switcher had targeted him and the switch went through after (or maybe before?) the kill did. But, upon further reflection, the flavor possibly was just indicating Felltir's potential to change into a different role. I would continue down this line of thinking and list what I see as possible scenarios that would produce a dead scum switcher, but still think scum benefit more from figuring out stuff about the roles, so I will stop. Let's just continue with the strategy of picking targets you think might be scum. Before we can do that, we have to find someone to lynch, of course.

Any thoughts yet on who to lynch?

What makes you think that Felltir was the only female role? I can see nothing in the flavour which points towards that.

I think he is referring to the fact that of the 3 killed last night, only Felltirs' name is female, thus the flavour that refers to the woman being stabbed etc, refers to the death of Felltir.

[roband]

Right, ok cheers.

[MasterOfAll]

Yeah, I just meant only female of the recently deceased.

Okay, here are all the D2 cop claims located in one post . . .

Spoiler:

I investigated Ug last night, and got scum as the result.

I copped Dr Ug and got Town. I have been a cop for 1 Nights.

I targetted mister k, got town. I have been a cop for 1 night.

Yeah, I copped roband last night, and he is town, and I've been a cop the whole game.

I copped Felltir and got scum. I've been a cop since the beginning.

I investigated Roband last night and got scum. I have been cop since the beginning.

I investigated Mr K last night, and got scum. I have been a cop since D1.

I investigated MoA last night and got town. I have been a cop since D1.

If we are still doing the whole cop result thing, umm... lets say MoA came up town.

I copped BigNose and he came up town. I have been a cop since... etc etc.

And yes, we do need to hear from Misnomer and Entropy today. I think the only posts either has made are the cop claims. I will follow Lataro's lead and put an equal amount of pressure on Misnomer (and will unvote as soon as he participates some more) . . .

Vote: Misnomer

[mpolo]

Of the people who are actively posting at the moment, only BigNose has made me a little nervous. That said, I'm also pretty convinced that his infelicitous expressions were honest mistakes. I agree with the pressure on the lurkers, but one vote is probably enough for now. More tomorrow, I hope.

[Misnomer]

I'm sorry I'm sorry, I know I need to be more active...

BN still seems to be calling for a no lynch strategy, which is pinging me like mad. This isn't a dethy, and trying to deploy a dethy-like strategy here isn't going to end well. Yes, the mass copclaiming tactic can help town, but by no means is it a strategy we can rely on to get us through to the end.

If we're looking for things to discuss, I think moving onto a death-by-analysis stage could help us. I'll try and get a post analysis out on someone tomorrow, too tired now.

[Dr Ug]

I have been neglecting this game due to buffy / wizardry. I will now reread and try to fix that.

[Dr Ug]

Ok, so I've reread and feel less bad for neglecting as there are less posts than I thought there had been.

I think NL is a bad idea. Scum mirror is possible (as a godfather) (and if scum have an extra kill that's unswitchable, this person could have that role). This would make relying on cops a bad idea, especially with one scum down already - there's a chance that only 1/2 scum are copable. Also, there is only 1 cop left and they could die today/tonight.

I think we were told flavour would let us know if scum worked each other out, and I haven't seen anything to suggest this happened last night. This may make looking for links difficult still.

I'm concerned about BigNose's "I wasn't told an alignment" slip. That seems like it could be scum trying to claim a towny PM, but also seems like a mistake as scum so I'm not sure. He's definitely a candidate for today's lynch.

[mpolo]

The more I think about it, the more nervous about BigNose I get. He has been really sloppy, strongly advocating a very questionable strategy, overanalyzing the cop results before they're "ripe". I think it's enough for me to

Vote: BigNose

and see what he can say to improve my opinion of him.

[BigNose]

Ooooh lots of 'We hate BigNose'

OK, let's try to clear a few things up:
1. Alignment: I think I meant to say 'our ability', but as I can't remember the reasoning behind my statement, I'm only going to say that I'm not even sure of that. So, I've muddied the waters and if it takes my lynch to clear it, so be it.

2. No-lynch: I have not been advocating the no-lynch strategy, I have been advocating a no-lynch strategy CONVERSATION. I think it's fair to say that others have been advocating (and has occured) a mass-claim, or mass-cop-claim strategy. That came about because of discussion. Just because one person doesn't agree with me, doesn't mean that I will ditch whatever strategy I wish to propose. When there is 4 or 5 (as in this case) people responding to the comment/strategy, then we have 2 situations:
a. Conversation that we can look back on later in the game.
b. I ditch the strategy, or we invoke it.
SIMPLEZ

Regarding lurkers, I am so very much in line with MoA, in the lynch-the-lurker. Some-one has a vote on Misnomer, so I will do the same for Entropy, but I will add a little more:

If we are still doing the whole cop result thing, umm... lets say MoA came up town.

His last post was 3 days ago, not a long time, but enough that a gentle hint wouldn't be amiss, but looking at his last post, this seems like a Scum who isn't very interested in the strategy (we had decided the format of the claim).

So, two-fold vote:
1. Lurkiness
2. Scummish
Vote: Entropy

[mpolo]

O.K. BigNose's responses are reasonable. I'm not 100% convinced yet, but I'm not going to advocate gunning for him. If we don't hear anything from Entropy by this evening, I am considering joining the "lynch a lurker" squad. I do need to look back and do some re-reading before that comes up, though.

[mister k]

I find a big nose lynch bizzare. Yes, he made some mistakes, but those mistakes are actually consistent with slopiness rather than scuminess- i.e. everyone else will realise he's wrong sharpish, so it'd be very foolish for scum to suggest it. As such, the mistakes are neutral towards me. I'm happy with an entropy lynch if entropy fails to post between now and a day or so.

[RoadieRich]

Votals:
Entropy: 2 (Lataro, Bignose)
Misnomer: 1 (MasterOfAll)
Bignose: 1 (mpolo)

10 players remain, 6 to lynch.

[Entropy]

If we are still doing the whole cop result thing, umm... lets say MoA came up town.

His last post was 3 days ago, not a long time, but enough that a gentle hint wouldn't be amiss, but looking at his last post, this seems like a Scum who isn't very interested in the strategy (we had decided the format of the claim).

It looks to me like most of the claims did not match the exact template. The main difference with mine is that the 'since day 1' struck me as kinda dumb to tack on there, so I didn't. And yes, I am fairly apathetic about the cop claiming dealio. It seems like it might be more useful for the town to deal in real information. Like the fact that I actually targeted Misnomer last night, and did not get any action result from the mod.

[Not A Raptor]

Is this a bad time to mention that I had completely neglected to get my night action in last time (assuming I have one)? Because it might be good of me to mention that. I'm going to comb through the posts of the people who appear to be lynch targets (And any posts that get tangled up in them, which will quickly expand to the whole thread near the end. Obviously.). Expect that to be complete by the end of Sunday, at the latest. In the meantime, there's a pumpkin carving event at my dorm in about 25 minutes, so I'll start when that's done (assuming my roommate doesn't get back and start a game of Monopoly that he has planned. Speaking of Monopoly, we should totally have a Mafiopoly game.)

[MasterOfAll]

Okay, I did say I would do this when he showed up, so . . .

Unvote (Misnomer)

And, yeah, I totally missed that Dr Ug hadn't posted since his cop claim either. So, really, we are all pretty guilty of not giving this game enough attention here on D2. Hopefully we can get things rolling again, though. And, maybe if N2 is kept to a more reasonable length we won't have similar issues on D3.


I'm not really sure why Entropy just told us who he targeted last night. I was thinking that figuring out who did what to whom would help the mafia out more than town, especially since I would expect mafia to have additional pieces of info and be able to figure things out sooner.

NaR - so it was you that was holding up N1 for so long? Did the mods tell you who you randomly targeted due to not sending anything in?

[RoadieRich]

Everyone was utterly drained from the tiring events of the day before. Packing away the last remnants of their small camp inside the church, they were ready to do some investigating.

==<+>==

The outsider, Laurence Heath, was shuffling about, clearly already bored with the suburban street he had been tasked to investigate. Brandon Sharpe was more upbeat, however.

"Why do we have to go investigate houses?" Lawrence complained, "I mean they're pretty much the same anyway and I always feel way too weird actually looting, I mean it could be your house for all you know."

Brandon rolled his eyes. "Look what I discovered in that last house." He drew a photograph from his pocket, clearly taken a few years ago. "Doesn't this look like Bignose? Look at the message: 'I told you I'd end up in your office one day'. It's signed 'Johnnie Caldwell'. The nameplate on the desk says 'Dean Davidson MD'. I'd guess he's the town doctor. Now to figure out who Dean is, he might be able to help us."

"Put it back already! Doesn't it weird you out that someone else could be out looting your home?" Lawrence shot back.

"Alright already," Brandon said, raising his hand in a gesture of surrender, "Geez, I thought you'd be more interested."

[MasterOfAll]

...he's the town doctor.

Hmm, I didn't realize until just now that there was a doctor in this game. *checks 1st post* Nope, no doctor listed.

Yeah, that flavor didn't do anything to help me clear things up. At least we finally saw some sort of use of Real Names (at least, I'm assuming that some were used).

[Not A Raptor]

I was just told that my target was randomized as Lataro.

[mpolo]

That seems to clear BigNose in any case. So he's like a doctor who doesn't know how to heal people. Or something. Was that like a delayed result from last night's actions, by the way?

In any case, I will now

Unvote: BigNose

Entropy's return to the game was something less than inspiring. Although I suppose that wanting to provide more information is generally townie. It's just that the information provided in this public forum can be dangerous, and at least in theory, we were hoping to get a way for the real cop(s) to get his(their) info out without risking his(their) own neck(s). I'm presently wondering how well our plan is going to work, but that was

Now that we only have one cop, outright claiming is somewhat more possible, particularly if he has a scum result or two to report. However, the remaining switcher could confuse things on us still. (If a claimed cop comes up "switcher" on death, there's no telling whether he was telling the truth or not…)

We currently have:

3 1X Switchers
2X Mirrors
2 1X Cops
2X Blockers
2X Killers
1X Watcher
1X Vanilla

We have 10 people left (with one dead town, one dead mafia, and one dead independent)

Only two kills occured in the night, out of three possible.

One of those kills was definitely not controlled by the mafia, as it hit a mafioso, and mafia are incapable of shooting straight when aiming at a scum brother:

Despite this, kill(s) controlled by the mafia will never kill a fellow scum. However town and indie kills can - and will - kill anyone.

BigNose is convinced that this kill is a second independent, but it could also be a town vigilante.
The scum hit a cop with one kill. I tend to agree that they also control the second kill.

Rules clarification: If the mafia try to kill one of their own with a kill power, is this kill (a) redirected or (b) blocked?

There is a slight danger of helping the mafia figure out who they are here, but I think the benefit to town of knowing whether the mafia is "guaranteed to shoot at town/independent" or "guaranteed not to kill mafia" outweighs that.

[MasterOfAll]

That seems to clear BigNose in any case.

I'm not sure it does. He could still be an evil doctor, right? And, I'm not even sure that the flavor meant BigNose was the doctor. It could be interpreted that it was a picture of BigNose in the doctor's office and he is the 'Johnnie Caldwell' character and not the 'Dr. Dean Davidson' character.

And, I really don't see what that flavor has to do with nightly actions. Since it didn't mention kills, or mirroring, or blocks, etc.

[mister k]

um, doctors are scientists, right? I don't think this at all clears bignose. That said, this doesn't actually make a great deal of sense, in that this flavour seems to have sprouted from nowhere... so yeah, in a different game I'd assume it was a player doing this, but I think this is a modly move. What it means... unclear.

[roband]

Yeah, to me Doctor = Scientist = Bad guy

but it does say MD, rather than PhD, which are two different types of doctor.

Not sure what to make of this

[BigNose]

Ok I checked with the Mods and they are happy for me verify that I am JC, but that flavour means nothing more to me.

[mpolo]

O.K. I totally missed the doctor=scientist angle and read "town doctor". But BigNose is not Dean but someone who gave the doctor a picture from a few years ago with a note saying that he knew he was going to end up there.

Maybe our second cop is a cryptic cop? Although why it would have waited until halfway through the day when all our actions are night actions, I really cannot say.

[Misnomer]

Right, sorry again for lack of content.

This has in part been to the fact that I've been planning a mafia based party, whch I had last night and was absolutely amazing! ^_^

But yeah, content from me so...

The flavour post implies that "Dean Davidson" is a doctor, yet the opening post says there is no doctor. I can think of a number of explanations...
1. DD is a doctor, and the opening post lies.
2. DD is not a doctor, and the flavour post is misninformation.
3. DD is a doctor in the scientist sense of the word (in other words, scum).
4. DD is not a doctor, and the 'MD' reference is a clue to that players identity.
5. DD is not a doctor, and the flavour post is telling us that LH and/or BS cannot be trusted to investigate.
6. None of the above.


Number 1 would be bastardy as hell, so I'm going to dimiss that for now.

By the way, do we have a bastardry level for this game?

Number 2 is possible, especially given that the flavour post appeared for no obvious reason during the middle of the day. On the other hand though, there's no reason to believe that any scum has a flavour writing ability.

Number 3 strikes me as possible I guess, but it really should be PHD, not MD.

Number 4 is a distinct possibility, but it's hard to see how it can help town, as scum would presumably have more to gain from knowing which players are matched to which real names...

And as for number 5, it raises a number of questions. Why exactly is LH an outsider? He seems mistrusting of BS' investigation - which could either mean that BS shouldn't be trusted, or that Lh is trying to prevent us from finding things out.


All in all, it's an incredibly confusing situation. I think it's worth us building up a picture of each of the realnames mentioned, to see if any patterns emerge (keeping all the information in one place would be conveniant anyway).

[weiyaoli]

Votals:
Entropy: 2 (Lataro, Bignose)

10 players remain, 6 to lynch.

A reminder that deadline is on Monday but that is very likely to be extended as there has been good quality and quantity of discussion so far.
Also a reminder to ask questions if needed.

By the way, do we have a bastardry level for this game?

No bastardry present.

Rules clarification: If the mafia try to kill one of their own with a kill power, is this kill (a) redirected or (b) blocked?

The kill does not go through. It is not redirected.

[mpolo]

We've been wondering for some time about whether the Real Names had to do with the Mafia getting in touch with one another. Could that be what this is?

That would actually throw a lot of suspicion at BigNose again, right after I had convinced myself that he was O.K.

I suppose the danger is that scum could also try to frame townies if they're directly writing the text.

Theory: The unidentified DD is head of the mafia and BigNose is one of his thugs.

The disadvantage of this is that it is way too easy for us as town -- the message that's supposed to be helping the mafia identify one another is actually useful to the town for identifying the mafia. Maybe it's more subtle than I'm thinking at the moment.

[Dr Ug]

Ok I have read the MD flavour three times, and I still don't get it. There doesn't seem to have been a power listed that could cause this (accurate or not) to appear. Which makes me think it must be mod initiated?

Are there any powers around that you haven't told us about? (ie other than the mafia kill (if seperate), and the powers listed in the first post)?

Apparently zero bastard, which should mean that the post wasn't just randomly made up / targeted / whatever - which seems to mean the answer to my first question must be "yes". But that would also be bastardry, which is apparently not here.

I am thoroughly confused.

[roband]

I am thoroughly confused.

This line sums up the whole game for me. None of us have any idea what our roles are. How could we?

[RoadieRich]

The flavour was randomly targeted. There are no powers we have not told you about.

Information in all posts made by the mods is 100% accurate — if you interpret it correctly.

We decided that you were struggling more than we had hoped, so we posted the flavour to help you figure things out.
There is one assumption you have all implicitly made that is skewing your whole view of the roles in this game.

[roband]

I really don't know if I can do this. I just don't understand. I could well be being dense.

[Dr Ug]

The flavour was randomly targeted. There are no powers we have not told you about.

Information in all posts made by the mods is 100% accurate — if you interpret it correctly.

We decided that you were struggling more than we had hoped, so we posted the flavour to help you figure things out.
There is one assumption you have all implicitly made that is skewing your whole view of the roles in this game.

Was the flavour triggered by a power, or was it due to Modly Intervention?

[MasterOfAll]

We decided that you were struggling more than we had hoped, so we posted the flavour to help you figure things out.
There is one assumption you have all implicitly made that is skewing your whole view of the roles in this game.

Well, I thought I kind of understood. Until the mod said this. So, apparently the mod knows that I have a skewed view of the roles due to a poor assumption. But, really, that statement just confuses me. And the flavor was supposed to help us figure things out?

Anyway, I propose that we just do what we should have been doing for the last couple days: analyzing each other's posts and voting for who we think is scum. Who wants to start putting some effort into this game?

Confession: I don't particularly want to put in any effort at the moment. But, Entropy's continued intentional lurking (I see him on IRC quite often, so he should have the time for this game) is making me want to vote for him, so I will go ahead and . . .

Vote: Entropy

[RoadieRich]

Was the flavour triggered by a power, or was it due to Modly Intervention?

It was not triggered by a power, so I suppose you could call it modly intervention.

The assumption you are making is that a role called doctor in flavour will always be identified as a doctor. The OP was not lying and the flavour was accurate - the role that is referred to in the flavour is listed in the OP, but it is listed by it's one-word rolename, not it's full rolename, much as the flavour-cop was only listed as "cop".

[Dr Ug]

Was the flavour triggered by a power, or was it due to Modly Intervention?

It was not triggered by a power, so I suppose you could call it modly intervention.

The assumption you are making is that a role called doctor in flavour will always be identified as a doctor. The OP was not lying and the flavour was accurate - the role that is referred to in the flavour is listed in the OP, but it is listed by it's one-word rolename, not it's full rolename, much as the flavour-cop was only listed as "cop".

I'm guessing he's trying to suggest that one of the "blockers" is actually a doctor? It's the only one I can think of that fits. I guess mirror may be a targettable action (ie putting a mirror on someone else), but that seems less likely.

I'm also unsure how this information helps us...

[MasterOfAll]

Well, I suppose that one of us (Dean Davidson) now knows they are a doctor (or at least, were one last night). And, yes, I don't see what else the mod could be suggesting other than one of the Blockers is a Doctor.

[mpolo]

And then BigNose knows that he was targeted by that "doctor", assuming this information is correct.

I'm going to follow along with the Entropy vote. He's been inactive and my head hurts from trying to figure out what's going on here. Maybe some more info from the night will make things clearer.

Vote: Entropy