[Mini] Somnambulist Amnesia - Game Over: The Town Wins

[BigNose]

This post is more for my own sanity, as opposed to any thing else.
By all means agree/disagree as you see fit, I am trying to get a consolidated view of the game.

Based on an assumption of 3 Scum, 1 Indy and 9 Town:
1 of the NK will start with 1 x Scum, but then automatically drift from Scum to Scum, as they are lynched/NK'd, or even Switched.
I am assuming that 1 of the NK will disappear when all Scum are dead.
1 of the NK is definitely the Indy, who really has to be a SK, as a Vig would/could win with Town. Even without the NK ability, they would still have to survive.

Would the game end, if all Scum are dead and the SK/Vig/Survivor was without the NK?
Is the 2nd NK skill a 'floating' skill, ie assuming the 1st NK MUST stay with Scum, the 2nd NK may not stay with the same person?

I notice that we do NOT have Doctors!
If we have a SK/Vig, then I suspect that he must have been informed in their role PM.
Whether he starts with the NK or not is another issue, but I suspect so.

Probable starting conditions could be:
SK with NK
1 x Scum with NK
1 x Scum with Switcher
1 x Scum with Mirror

Town would have:
2 x Switchers
1 x Mirror
2 x Blockers
2 x Cops
1 x Watcher
1 x Vanilla

Will the Watcher be told the targets action and/or action on them, and/or targets' target?

Interactions:
If a Blocker targets a Mirror, then a Cop on the Mirror would turn out correct, ie NOT a reflection.

I can see where a Switcher targetting the Scum NK, will get a Vanilla in return and the NK is moved to the next Scum in turn, or the Switcher getting the 2nd Scums' trait..

MOD Returns:
If you are the Cop, I see you getting a Scum/Town result PM.
If you are the Switcher, you get no return PM.
If you are the Mirror, you get no return PM.
If you are the Blocker, you get no return PM.
If you are the Watcher, you will get a result PM (see above)

Should everyone 'COP' the first Night, so that they can identify if they are a Cop?

If everyone was to show their result on D2, then we end up with 13 results, all showing Town, because if any result was turned up as Scum, then we must have a Real Cop + Scum, or it is Scum, so 2 lynches later, we would be down 1 x Scum.

Perceived Night-Actions ordering:
Blocker
Watcher
Mirror
Cop
NK
Switch

Sorry, my quietness is partly due to a busy weekend and partly due to my equal-first game being so complicated.

I think we're all going to know a lot more after a night period, so would it be worth going for a non-lynch on D1? Unless someone admits being scum orientated, anyway!

I'll take this as NEWBIE talk, as it is almost always beneficial to lynch, if nothing else, it may help clear up WINE.

[roband]

Thanks for that post - if it's correct (and I can't see anything in it that I immediately disagree with) then it's good to have something like that written in the thread to check back on after each Night and attempt to work out what's happened.

As for my post, I was making a suggestion and asking for views on it. I am still learning, so I'll try not to be a hindrance.
I'm also going to stop apologising for being new too.

[vector]

I think we're all going to know a lot more after a night period, so would it be worth going for a non-lynch on D1? Unless someone admits being scum orientated, anyway!

Blorgh. Have you played anywhere before this? Anywhere at all?

[roband]

Yes, but only on plain games. Never anything as near to this level of unknown.

[Entropy]

hmm, so the conversation, despite being long, hasn't gone many places since yesterday. Effectively we're at mass cop-claim day 2, with everyone targeting whoever they please? As I say, this should definitely be whomsoever each individual finds the most scummy.

I think it may be time to stop speculating about game strategy and who is acting like an evil, scum sucking creature.

-NAR has had precious little to say thus far, and has been scum in a lot of previous games, which means he's obviously more likely to be scum again.
-elvish pillager has been very chatty, I've never played with him before, so don't know if this is standard for him. Pillager seems to be very anti-Ug, which I can appreciate, as Ug's strategic advice has been bad, but I think he's just been mis-understanding the set up, as I did at the start. I'm worried about drowning in words with pillager, and thinking him safe because of that.
-Ug. Has made some mistakes which has led him to advocate somewhat bad ideas. I did the same, but I do expect higher standards of Ug than I expect from myself. I'm an idiot.
-misnomer. Asked some weird questions of vector, but feels town to me
-vector. Apparently playing standard, but not a standard play I like. Basically a meaningless random vote plus barely any content.
-bignose. Barely anything to say thus far. Suspicion!
-feltir. Suspect he hasn't been around to post, so neutral.
-MoA. Solid spec, seems fine to me.
-roband. Need more posts
-mpolo. Feels fine to me currently.

Wow, somehow I completely dodged your radar! I'm going to assume your comments wrt NaR are sarcastic. You also left out ThinkSweet

I'm a little suspicious of roband at the moment, just because I have seen the "I asked a newbie question, I must be innocent!" tactic used before, but I'm nowhere near certain about anyone yet.

[mister k]

hmm, so the conversation, despite being long, hasn't gone many places since yesterday. Effectively we're at mass cop-claim day 2, with everyone targeting whoever they please? As I say, this should definitely be whomsoever each individual finds the most scummy.

I think it may be time to stop speculating about game strategy and who is acting like an evil, scum sucking creature.

-NAR has had precious little to say thus far, and has been scum in a lot of previous games, which means he's obviously more likely to be scum again.
-elvish pillager has been very chatty, I've never played with him before, so don't know if this is standard for him. Pillager seems to be very anti-Ug, which I can appreciate, as Ug's strategic advice has been bad, but I think he's just been mis-understanding the set up, as I did at the start. I'm worried about drowning in words with pillager, and thinking him safe because of that.
-Ug. Has made some mistakes which has led him to advocate somewhat bad ideas. I did the same, but I do expect higher standards of Ug than I expect from myself. I'm an idiot.
-misnomer. Asked some weird questions of vector, but feels town to me
-vector. Apparently playing standard, but not a standard play I like. Basically a meaningless random vote plus barely any content.
-bignose. Barely anything to say thus far. Suspicion!
-feltir. Suspect he hasn't been around to post, so neutral.
-MoA. Solid spec, seems fine to me.
-roband. Need more posts
-mpolo. Feels fine to me currently.

Wow, somehow I completely dodged your radar! I'm going to assume your comments wrt NaR are sarcastic. You also left out ThinkSweet

I'm a little suspicious of roband at the moment, just because I have seen the "I asked a newbie question, I must be innocent!" tactic used before, but I'm nowhere near certain about anyone yet.

well you can take that as a cutting comment about both of your lack of posts. And not me missing you both at all..... The NAR comment was indeed sarcastic.

[Not A Raptor]

Mostly, all the talk is centered around what to do about not knowing our own powers. I, for one, am still trying to wrap my head around it. When I come upon a better strategy than any of the ones posited, I'll let you guys know. Until then, count me a supporter of the "target scummy people always" plan.

[vector]

Yes, but only on plain games. Never anything as near to this level of unknown.

So what part of you thinks that we should just try to use night data, rather than press-press-pressing everyone we can? If you're familiar with vanilla games, then you should know that the daygame is crucial.

Well, then. Who is scum, and why?

-EVERYONE IS SCUM-

Unvote.
Vote: mister k.

You have a list of suspicions but no questions to go with them, and nearly every player in the game is ringing scumtells for you. This is useless and only serves to muddy the waters.

[mpolo]

Um... Checking in. I have to do some re-reading to see what I think about mister k and roband (the two people who have been voted recently). Unfortunately, I missed this thread somehow during the day, and now am well overdue for bedtime. More tomorrow, I promise.

[vector]

Um... Checking in. I have to do some re-reading to see what I think about mister k and roband (the two people who have been voted recently). Unfortunately, I missed this thread somehow during the day, and now am well overdue for bedtime. More tomorrow, I promise.

I voted mindmaker and mister k. Roband is as-yet unvoted.

[weiyaoli]

Votals:

misterk (1): vector

Would the game end, if all Scum are dead and the SK/Vig/Survivor was without the NK?

The game ends when either all the scum are dead or when scum will reach a majority or that it is inevitable that they will do so.

Is the 2nd NK skill a 'floating' skill, ie assuming the 1st NK MUST stay with Scum, the 2nd NK may not stay with the same person?

The Killer(s) function as normal. They will stay with the person unless switched or under special circumstances.

Will the Watcher be told the targets action and/or action on them, and/or targets' target?

No specific details can be given on Watchers except for the presence of 1 Watcher.

[mister k]

meh, I was just giving a list of my current feelings on players. Apparently I need to ask other players questions? Interesting. I think being overly aggressive can lead to town attacking town, and the scum sitting back and enjoying it, but clearly you feel different. My main role with that post was to move the game from strategy to scum spec, and hopefully see if people were feeling the same things as I was.

[vector]

Apparently I need to ask other players questions? Interesting. I think being overly aggressive can lead to town attacking town, and the scum sitting back and enjoying it, but clearly you feel different.

Eh, I've played nearly every game a different subforum ran for a year now--often 7 or 8 games simultaneously--and found that the only way to do things was to be active, and do your best to drag everyone else into the middle. Town will attack town, but if someone is sidelining then you can easily call them out on it. Plus, in reality, if you don't test for reactions/ask questions then it's pretty hard to comb for behavior. Without lots of information, it's hard to get solid reads...

So yes, I think that aggression is very important. Being overly aggressive is bad, but being overly passive is far worse.

[Not A Raptor]

Apparently I need to ask other players questions? Interesting. I think being overly aggressive can lead to town attacking town, and the scum sitting back and enjoying it, but clearly you feel different.

Eh, I've played nearly every game a different subforum ran for a year now--often 7 or 8 games simultaneously--and found that the only way to do things was to be active, and do your best to drag everyone else into the middle. Town will attack town, but if someone is sidelining then you can easily call them out on it. Plus, in reality, if you don't test for reactions/ask questions then it's pretty hard to comb for behavior. Without lots of information, it's hard to get solid reads...

So yes, I think that aggression is very important. Being overly aggressive is bad, but being overly passive is far worse.

Because if you're attacking everybody, then you don't need to worry about defending yourself: attacks are suddenly meaningless!

[vector]

Because if you're attacking everybody, then you don't need to worry about defending yourself: attacks are suddenly meaningless!

I don't know how you deduced that, but I don't think it's an apt summary of my statements.

[Dr Ug]

It is a problem with random votes / random accusations. If you are explicitly doing this, the obvious defence is "you're doing this to make me defend - so I don't really need to defend / there is no substance to your accusation, so there is nothing of substance to defend".

Random votes need to be based on something (even if it is something minor), or it does not force a defense.

[vector]

It is a problem with random votes / random accusations. If you are explicitly doing this, the obvious defence is "you're doing this to make me defend - so I don't really need to defend / there is no substance to your accusation, so there is nothing of substance to defend".

Random votes need to be based on something (even if it is something minor), or it does not force a defense.

Let's suppose you're playing a mountainous. 9p, 2 scum just for the sake of argument. You know all of this.

You're about to make the first post of the game. What do you write?

[Dr Ug]

Let's suppose you're playing a mountainous.

?

[vector]

No power roles. No flavor--absolutely zilch. Just 7 vanilla townies and 2 vanilla goons.

What do you do, without the prop of rolespec?

[Dr Ug]

Talk about a strategy. Any strategy - bad or good. Talk about something. Attack someone because they play scum well, so therefore are worth eliminating. Attack something for some other reason.

Anything except

Time for a random vote:

Vote: someone

[Dr Ug]

EBWOP: All that does is draw suspicion on yourself. They don't have to defend - there is nothing to defend against.

[Elvish Pillager]

vector, that question is pure distraction. You want people to participate? Participate a bit: You haven't said anything in the ongoing discussions, just brought in your own thoughts and accusations (and yes, it's good for players to bring their own stuff, but they should also participate in strategy discussions, especially in complex-rules games.)

Actually, correction: You did make one post towards ongoing discussions (spoilered to not waste space)

Spoiler:

I like the mass-cop claim. A person who switches can just change to the real "I've had this power for ___ days", but only after getting a scum result. A switched-in cop who gets town results should report accurately everything except the timeframe.

The problem with this is that after an individual dies, there will be no way to tell when they were a cop and when they weren't.

I don't think a dethy-style layout is going to work. I think we need a different strategy.

Actually, it might be best to just play this game as though it were vanilla.

Which is basically just you saying "The mass cop claim isn't useful, let's not do it" without much rationale (and - at they risk of beating a dead horse - you're wrong about that). Care to either defend this position or abandon it? I know I'm being a bit pushy trying to get people on the mass-cop-claim bandwagon, but we really do need near-consensus on it in order to go ahead with it - the plan isn't terribly simple and it would be bad to try it if not everyone knows clearly what we're doing.

[vector]

Attack something for some other reason.

He hadn't posted.

1. Lurking: scum more probable.
2. Lurking: beneficial to town to question and involve in game.
3. Lurking: can examine post-drawing-out behavior to find out if he just retreats back into his burrow when I'm done with him.

He does indeed need to defend himself, because if he doesn't I will do whatever I have to to get him lynched. That does assume some personal clout, of course, but I tend to think I'm convincing enough.

[lame humor]Also, I found his avatar displeasing. [/lame humor]


As I said: I think the PRs will just be distracting. That is why I'm pretending it's a mountainous and going with the flow.



As far as the mass cop claim goes:

Let's say that Alpha has been killed in the night during N3. He flips cop.

N1, Alpha is a cop. He inspects Beta and gets a truthful (?) town result.
D2, he says "Beta is town. I have been a cop since N0."
N2, he becomes a switcher.
D2, he says "Gamma is town. I have been a cop since N0."
N3, he swaps with the cop again and is NK'd.

All right. How are we going to get cop info out of that?

I'll see that and raise you one, though.

Let's say Alpha is a cop the entire damned game.

N1, Alpha is a cop. He inspects Beta and determines that he is a townie.
D2, he says "Beta is a townie. I have been a cop since N0."
N2, Alpha is still a cop. He inspects Gamma. Gamma is also a townie.
D3, he says "Gamma is a townie. I have been a cop since N0."
N3, he is nightkilled.
D4, he mostly says "splorfle, I am slain."

Now.

When was Alpha a cop? When wasn't he a cop? How do we know when he actually had the role, and when he didn't?

You're basically talking about trying to make a data encryption system which the scum can't break and the townies can, while building the thing and passing around the keys in-thread. Sorry. It WILL NOT WORK.

[vector]

I mean, tell me if I'm getting this wrong, but it was the gist of what I got from you guys.

My personal preference would be "action based on predilection, and report cop results only if you find scum." Discovery of scum is generally worth the potential loss of a cop (and the switcher can be used to magic the role away, anyhow).

[vector]

EBWOP: Crap, disregard what I said about switcher... or not. Someone should know if they wound up with that role if they lost their previous one...

No. Too much potential for following the cop and getting crap results due to mirrors/whatever. Forget about it.

[Dr Ug]

Attack something for some other reason.

He hadn't posted.

1. Lurking: scum more probable.
2. Lurking: beneficial to town to question and involve in game.
3. Lurking: can examine post-drawing-out behavior to find out if he just retreats back into his burrow when I'm done with him.

He does indeed need to defend himself, because if he doesn't I will do whatever I have to to get him lynched. That does assume some personal clout, of course, but I tend to think I'm convincing enough.

I was not arguing that your specific attack was bad, but that your proposed general strategy was. I agree that mister k has some defending to do. I just don't like explicitly random votes (which your vote on mister k was not, but your vote on Misnomer was).

As for the difficulty of town results - there are so many chances for false town results they are almost meaningless - but real scum results are meaningful, and probably worth the sacrifice of a cop. Mass-results claim allows the potential of getting more than one scum result from a single cop. If we alter your scenario slightly:

N1, Alpha is a cop. He inspects Beta and gets a truthful scum result.
D2, he says "Beta is scum. I have been a cop since N0."
N2, he becomes a switcher.
D3, he says "Gamma is town. I have been a cop since N0."
N3, he swaps with the cop again. He targeted delta, but didn't get a result (I'm fairly sure switchers are processed last)
D4, he says "Delta is town. I have been a cop since N0."
N4, he inspects Epsilon and gets a truthful scum result.
D5, he says "I am really a cop, and I have two scum results so we should lynch those people because we are at LYLO. Those scum are Alpha and Epsilon. Also I didn't get a result on N2/3 either because I was blocked or I was swapped, then swapped back in. I targetted Gamma and Delta N2/3, so if they were a cop and lost it that night, they should be able to back up my claim."

[Elvish Pillager]

vector: uh, you gave two example situations, one in which the cop info is bogus, and one in which it's useful. The one where it's bogus is factually incorrect. A switcher who's NKed will be NKed as a switcher and not switch with their target.

There are a few situations where there can be bogus cop information left over, but it's significantly more likely that if a cop dies, they've been a cop for exactly the duration they stated.

The analogy about data encryption is also misleading. The information we're trying to hide is the identities of the cops; the information we're trying to reveal is the alignments of other players. The claimed information becomes useful when a cop dies, at which point there's no longer any reason to conceal their identity (as if it was even possible). There isn't any selectivity between town and scum after that, but the important thing is that alignment information is useful only to the town, while role information is useful to both town and scum.

[vector]

My strategy is kind of ... hard to fully explain, since in essence it involves a lot of tweaking for various situations. In any case, I find that voting "randomly" works quite well for me in most situations. Just consider it pseudorandom, because there's always a reason for my choice.


Well, anyway: is there any reason why we need to clutter up the thread with daily claims, then? Frankly, I just can't understand the utility of it, though that may be a flaw in my logic more than anything else.

vector: uh, you gave two example situations, one in which the cop info is bogus, and one in which it's useful. The one where it's bogus is factually incorrect. A switcher who's NKed will be NKed as a switcher and not switch with their target.

There are a few situations where there can be bogus cop information left over, but it's significantly more likely that if a cop dies, they've been a cop for exactly the duration they stated.

The analogy about data encryption is also misleading. The information we're trying to hide is the identities of the cops; the information we're trying to reveal is the alignments of other players. The claimed information becomes useful when a cop dies, at which point there's no longer any reason to conceal their identity (as if it was even possible). There isn't any selectivity between town and scum after that, but the important thing is that alignment information is useful only to the town, while role information is useful to both town and scum.

Fine. It was factually incorrect. I could have extended the scenario to four days to fix that. What you seem to not be getting here is the point, rather than the incorrectness of the example stated.

There are plenty of situations where bogus information will be left over. I personally don't like the risk.

Furthermore: how do we know that the claimed information is all useful when the cop dies? Only he knows, and he is dead. It is about data encryption. It is about passing a message from one individual to a group of individuals.

There are two pieces of data to be transmitted:

1. When the individual was a cop
2. Inspection results.

The former matters to everyone. The latter matters to everyone as well, because a system with holes is a system that the scum can easily manipulate. They don't want bad results popping up on their heads.

So, how do we hide "when the individual is a cop" while that person is alive, and then reveal it only when they're dead?

It just... doesn't make sense.

[Dr Ug]

My strategy is kind of ... hard to fully explain, since in essence it involves a lot of tweaking for various situations. In any case, I find that voting "randomly" works quite well for me in most situations. Just consider it pseudorandom, because there's always a reason for my choice.

So what is your reasoning for keeping the reason to your self?

[vector]

My strategy is kind of ... hard to fully explain, since in essence it involves a lot of tweaking for various situations. In any case, I find that voting "randomly" works quite well for me in most situations. Just consider it pseudorandom, because there's always a reason for my choice.

So what is your reasoning for keeping the reason to your self?

I gave the reasonings for both of my votes. Remember? The "lurker" one (misnomer) and the "reasoned" one (mister k).

Also, reasons to keep reasons to oneself:

My experience is that it generally scares the crap out of people when they think you have dirt on them and they don't know quite what it is. Makes them far more likely to slip up.

[Dr Ug]

That may work on other boards, but in most cases (except for possibly newbies) here, an attack that consists of

Vote: X

will not achieve much, other than to draw suspicion on the person who made the vote.

[Dr Ug]

EBWOP: Also, you gave the reason for your first vote >1 page after you made it - at the time you provided no reason, so it doesn't stimulate a defence.

[Elvish Pillager]

N1, Alpha is a cop. He inspects Beta and gets a truthful scum result.
D2, he says "Beta is scum. I have been a cop since N0."
N2, he becomes a switcher.
D3, he says "Gamma is town. I have been a cop since N0."
N3, he swaps with the cop again. He targeted delta, but didn't get a result (I'm fairly sure switchers are processed last)
D4, he says "Delta is town. I have been a cop since N0."
N4, he inspects Epsilon and gets a truthful scum result.
D5, he says "I am really a cop, and I have two scum results so we should lynch those people because we are at LYLO. Those scum are Alpha and Epsilon. Also I didn't get a result on N2/3 either because I was blocked or I was swapped, then swapped back in. I targetted Gamma and Delta N2/3, so if they were a cop and lost it that night, they should be able to back up my claim."

This example is also factually incorrect, I'm afraid.

If switchers function last, then for Alpha not to get a cop result on N2, they must have been switched on N1. It should be more like this:

N1, Alpha is a cop. They inspect Beta and get "scum". Someone else switches with them this night.
D2, they say "I copped Beta as scum. I have been a cop since N1."
N2, Alpha is a switcher. They don't get a cop result, but (in this example) they switch with a cop.
D3, they lie, saying, perhaps, "I copped Gamma as town. I have been a cop since N2."
N3, Alpha is a cop again. They inspect Delta and get "town".
D4, they say "I copped Delta as town. I have been a cop since N3." At this point, if the mods haven't reported any cops being blocked on N2, Alpha can be confident that they've been switched, so Alpha should ALSO say, "My N1 cop was real. Beta is definitely scum. I was also switched N1." This doesn't reveal anything about Alpha's current role. Hopefully Beta is lynched today.
N4, Alpha is still a cop and gets scum on Epsilon.
D5, if it's LYLO, Alpha should explicitly report their scum result on Epsilon even though it gives away their role. Hypothetically, if it wasn't near endgame, they should instead just claim "I copped Epsilon as scum. I have been a cop since N3."

Naturally, there's a lot of variance in the day-to-day decisions based on what roles are blocked and how many switchers and mirrors have been killed by that point.
If Alpha is killed N2, then their results are ignored, because they die as a switcher. If Alpha is killed N3, they're a cop, and the players get only a made-up "Gamma is town" result to be misled by, which isn't too harmful. If they're killed N4, then the town gets only their true "Delta is town" cop result. If they're killed N5, the town gets their true "Epsilon is scum" result.

We're focusing a lot on the cases involving switchers, because they're the nasty cases, but it's much more likely that any dead (town) cop has actually been a cop for exactly as long as they said they were. In this example, the switcher hitting N1 is an anomalous cause that means that town loses their scum result on Beta if they die N2, but in the majority of cases a cop who gets results N1 and then dies N2 will have them revealed.

[vector]

That may work on other boards, but in most cases (except for possibly newbies) here, an attack that consists of

Vote: X

will not achieve much, other than to draw suspicion on the person who made the vote.

Fine. Having shitty day, will return when have ability to play to satisfaction.


@Mr. Elvish: Majority case. We're going to set up a system to follow near-blindly based on "majority case?" Do you see no problems with this?

[Elvish Pillager]

@Mr. Elvish: Majority case. We're going to set up a system to follow near-blindly based on "majority case?" Do you see no problems with this?

I welcome your suggestions for how to determine the scum with 100% certainty.

Not-perfectly-reliable information is infinitely better than no information. Besides, players are encouraged to false claim according to their suspicions - e.g. say "I got scum on (X)" if they think (X) is scummy - and so the worst case scenario is that we blindly follow the suspicions of a known townie.

[Dr Ug]

Fine. Having shitty day, will return when have ability to play to satisfaction.

I hope you didn't take offence by my last post. That wasn't what I meant to do (and rereading I can see my "on other boards" being interpreted badly). I just don't think explicitly random votes are a pro-town action.

[Elvish Pillager]

EBWOP: and, OOC, I'm going to bed now (so don't feel obligated to hang around expecting quick replies from me like has been happening in the last half-hour.)

[BigNose]

I don't have a problem with Vectors initial vote, or her method. It produces discussion which is only good for Town. When that discussion leads to WINE, then we have to consider Scum is involved, but that again comes from discussion.

The problem with any scenario is that you don't know what you are, unless you get a PM response from the Mods.
If we randomly apply Watcher or Cop or Blocker or whatever as our Night Action, it means that the Cop could request a Watcher action and get no response.
We therefore need a strategy to maximise our chances.

The possibility is that we can only PM the Mods with our target and not our action. It is only through our return PM that we can determine our ability.
Therefore, we all Cop X N1 (where X is anyone they care to) and on D2, everyone identifies who they targeted.
Come N2, we still don't know if we would have the same ability, or that we have been switched, until we get our result PM, or not, back.
D3 then starts with us back to not knowing what we are.

I don't see a major benefit to everyone claiming who they copped and how long they have been a cop, because the only thing we are intereseted in is whether Scum has been found.

Personally, I think that if a Cop finds Scum N1, then they should chance their arm and NOT divulge D2, but save it until D3. Certainly, if they find scum N2, then they should declare it that day.

Remember, Scum do NOT know who the other Scum are, so sending in a list will not produce a harmonious strategy, thus anyone and everyone can be as vocal as necessary, because the Cop is the one ability that scares Scum as it can be targeted. The Mirror can't, so it's a case of 'bad luck', should they pick on the Mirror and if everyone plays the Cop action every night, then we should be able to pick out the Scum.

Just remember, we could have a GF (Scum plus Mirror).

[BigNose]

EBWOP

Would a 'No-lynch' strategy work?

If we don't lynch, but all use our ability at Night, then we would have less chance of losing a Townie through lynching.
We would have more Days and therefore more Nights and therefore more 'Copping'.

The 'Cop' ability will no-doubt be moving regularly, so while we have atleast 1 Cop, the strategy might be worth continuing, though I think to be safer, it would be better to stop it, if we lose 1 x Cop.

I am not advocating the strategy, just putting it forward for discussion.

[roband]

EBWOP

Would a 'No-lynch' strategy work?

If we don't lynch, but all use our ability at Night, then we would have less chance of losing a Townie through lynching.
We would have more Days and therefore more Nights and therefore more 'Copping'.

The 'Cop' ability will no-doubt be moving regularly, so while we have atleast 1 Cop, the strategy might be worth continuing, though I think to be safer, it would be better to stop it, if we lose 1 x Cop.

I am not advocating the strategy, just putting it forward for discussion.

This is what I asked about, but was told off
Vector even used the phrase 'Blorgh' - maybe they'll be more gentle with you.