[m] Marvel Mafia: Game over: mafia victory

[roband]

Ok, whilst the robots are a little worrying, they clearly don't have a vote.

11 to lynch with 23 (20+3) players only makes sense if 3 of them cannot vote.

And as we're all superheroes, I can't imagine they're going to have any powers that we couldn't potentially have anyway. Therefore I suspect they're flavour related. I hope so anyway.

I'm going to be fairly crappy at rolespec, I've seen the Fantastic 4 movie, some of the Spiderman ones and maybe a couple of others. But I'm no comic book expert.

[Vieto]

Votals:
BXM - 1 - Lataro

[iroZn]

I like to think that I could hold a conversation about marvel but I'm not supergeek about them, I might be able to help with rolespec though, especially if we get some descriptions of powers that happen.

I know what you mean about tvtropes though haha

[ameretrifle]

Okay, then, a couple questions to start us off (I've wiki'd some, but still, it's a jumping-off point):

-Who the crap is Dr. Doom?
-Who the crap is Deadpoooooooooooool?
-Why are the Fantastic 4 here?
-Any interactions we should keep in mind?

[iroZn]

Okay, then, a couple questions to start us off (I've wiki'd some, but still, it's a jumping-off point):

-Who the crap is Dr. Doom?
-Who the crap is Deadpoooooooooooool?
-Why are the Fantastic 4 here?
-Any interactions we should keep in mind?

Well Dr. Doom is the main villain in the fantastic four series. He has been known to build lots of robots (makes me think the robots are his), steal other peoples powers sometimes, and he has some wicked armor.

Deadpool is an x-men semi-villain, he is more of a bad guy who is just doing it for fun. He breaks the 4th wall in the comics a lot too, so I'm not surprised by his flavor.

Fantastic 4 are marvel creations.

As far as the interactions are concerned it seems like the fantastic 4 will play a large part so they are definitely here, as is Dr. Doom. I'm wondering if everyone is going to be superheroes or if there will be some supporting roles like maybe uncle ben will be here, that would be awesome.

[AngrySquirrel]

-Who the crap is Dr. Doom?

Dr Victor Von Doom is the archnemsis of the Fantastic 4. He is both an inventor and a sorcerer. Quite often he uses doombots or robots as standins for himself in fights. He is also the ruler of Latveria. As far as baddies goes, he's one of the big ones.

-Who the crap is Deadpoooooooooooool?

Deadpool is awesome. He's the merc with a mouth, known for frequently breaking the fourth wall. He's got a healing factor that makes him close to impossible to kill. He's a mercenary, he likes killing people, but he tries not to kill good people unless it can be justified in some way (like throwing Peter Parker off a bridge). He uses swords and guns to fight and his hobby includes blowing stuff up.

Technically he isn't a bad guy. He just accidentally kills a lot of innocent people (who probably deserved it anyway).

-Why are the Fantastic 4 here?

Because they're a part of the Marvel universe?

-Any interactions we should keep in mind?

The robot that looks like Dr Doom worries me. It could be a doombot, or one of his decoys. Quite possible it could be used by Dr Doom as a way of extending his own life or otherwise wreck havoc.

Sentinels are generally bad news as well, although the one with the Fantastic 4 logo probably isn't all that bad. Otherwise I'd think the sentinel might be especially bad for mutants.

Of the roles on the role-list that worries me the most is Galactus. He eats planets after all. I don't think that's a good thing.

[Adacore]

From the way the flavour and modly commands have been phrased, I suspect a large number of us are in mason-type groups. Factions I can immediately think of (and possible characters from the list of potential roles):

Town:

X Men (Cyclops, Professor X, Rogue [could also be Brotherhood], Beast, Iceman, Storm, Jean Grey, Wolverine)
Avengers (Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Spider Man, Giant Man)
Fantastic Four (The Thing, Sue Richards, Human Torch, Mr Fantastic)
Defenders (Daredevil, Hulk, Submariner, Giant Man)

Neutral (connections in square brackets []):

SHIELD (Nick Fury, Ultimate Nick Fury)
Deadpool [X Men / Brotherhood]; and Kid Deadpool, his young alternate or something
War Machine [Iron Man]
Elektra [Daredevil]
Black Cat [Spiderman]
The Hornet [Spiderman]

Scum:

Brotherhood (Magneto, Mystique, Lady Deathstrike, Sabertooth)
Spiderman Villains (Green Goblin, Dr Octopus, Scorpion, Jonah Jameson Jr.)
Four Horsemen (Apocalpyse, Angel, Hulk, Gambit)
Masters of Evil (Dr Victor Von Doom, Loki, Ultron, Mandarin)
Heralds of Galactus (Silver Surfer, Galactus)
Dr Bolivar Trask [makes sentinels, doesn't seem to have any team affiliations]


No, just no:

Not an actual Marvel character afaik (Batman, Snape, Sparticus, The Brooklynxman, Squirrel Girl)

Now almost all of those characters have been in at least two of those teams, most have been in several. Again, almost everyone on the list has flipped between good and evil at some point in Marvel comics history. I think we should take a baseline on assuming the 'default' alignments of all the potential characters though. Also, I listed a couple of characters twice because I couldn't decide which team they were most closely affiliated with.

My knowledge of Marvel flavour is quite limited, but the amount of stuff available online is phenomenal. My housemate is also a big Marvel fan, so has a decent ability to give the 'general theme' from the massive dump of information available. Unfortunately, most of these characters have been around so long and have so much contradictory stuff in their past it's going to be hard to work out the alignments and relations for sure.

With so many characters, there's no way I have time to speculate on each one individually. I might try a few lines on the more likely ones later, though.

[existential_elevator]

I am a supporting role, and not a superhero - so I am pretty sure there will be other supporting roles out there. This is both a good thing and a bad thing (What, no Canadian Justice League?). It's good because it means there should be more interesting things going on, it's bad because I wanted to spend this game pretending to fly... neeeoooowwwn wheeeeee pew pew pew

And yes, Dr Doom = bad things

I am not sure whether it's a good thing or a bad thing to be able to vote for the robots. On one hand, it's a good way of avoiding a Day 1 townie lynch. On the other hand, I don't know how much information it'll give us.

...so many ninjas

[Vieto]

Adacore, who was wearing a tuxedo, was fighting another character when he was ambushed with acid from the side. He has been knocked out, and has been roleblocked, making his abilities void until nightfall, when he can clean his tuxedo from the acid.

[Misnomer]

*is so horribly flavour challenged he could cry*


But yeah, my instinct is to not lynch the robots unless we genuinely cannot decide on a player lynch.

Ninja'd: public roleblock???

[roband]

Is spec about the different factions a good thing to be discussing?
We don't really want to be giving the bad guys more info than we have to.

And I was going to ask for more info on the knock-out thing, but it looks like we got an explanation..

[Dr Ug]

Please don't play the "rolespec is a scumtell" card, we had just this fight in another game recently (Mr K was the proponent of that argument that time IIRC). Sure, pointing out when you think someone is a power role would be bad, but speculating about potential roles is not. It does give the possibility of giving power-tells, but more importantly it can give scum-tells.

I, however am both flavour poor, and incredibly tired from work - so no spec from me tonight, hopefully tomorrow.

[AngrySquirrel]

Not an actual Marvel character afaik (Batman, Snape, Sparticus, The Brooklynxman, Squirrel Girl)

*coughcough* Squirrel Girl *coughcough*

[roband]

Not an actual Marvel character afaik (Batman, Snape, Sparticus, The Brooklynxman, Squirrel Girl)

*coughcough* Squirrel Girl *coughcough*

Haha

"Squirrel Girl carries a utility belt comprising multiple pouches that contain nuts to give as snacks to her squirrel friends. These are known, to much comedic effect, as her "nut sacks"."

[VectorZero]

*coughcough* Squirrel Girl *coughcough*

I know i've seen that picture before somewhere... but where??

I also am practically flavourless, except for the recent movies and whatever trivia moviebob throws up on the escapist. I've at least heard of my character, so, yay, I guess? (Though since Dune I guess I owe it to those players to put the effort in here )

I'm also a miller; just putting it out there.

[negativeone]

Hey, guys. Sorry, that I hadn't posted earlier, no internet whole day yesterday.
Anyone wonder why the non-Marvel characters are here?
Oh, and sorry for the lack of content. Mildly flavor-challenged.
And, some follow-ups:
"Which characters have symbiotes?"
"Which have auto-regeneration capabilities?"

[Vieto]

Adacore, Captain America, was still in the midst of fending off his first attacker when, stalked from behindm, he was ambushed. He turned to raise his shield, which normally would have saved him, but it was too late; his super-human strength was no match for having his neck clawed. As his assailant dashed off into the midst of fighting, Captain America, despite his efforts to clot the blood, fell face down on the ground, dead.

Adacore was Captain America. He was kill-proof during the day due to his shield (which was roleblocked), had a nightly protect ability, and was the recruiter for the Avengers. Town.

19+3 players, 11 votes to lynch.

[VectorZero]

Soo.. one thing i remember from xmen origins was that deadpool gained abilities from other mutants, which i gather from wiki is not canon from the comics?

Ninjad: son of a (*@&$

[AngrySquirrel]

"Which characters have symbiotes?"

Spiderman has the symbiote
As for potential lovers, there's a bunch. I would say Sue Richards and Mr. Fantastic are the most obvious pair since they're married and all.
Cyclops and Jean Grey also had a thing going (including clones and a massive creepy factor).

"Which have auto-regeneration capabilities?"

Let's see, Deadpool and Wolverine are the obvious ones. But most of these characters are notoriously hard to kill.

As for the non-marvel characters. Mostly I would guess they're here due to meme's. Batman always wins we know (also he's the goddamned Batman). Sparticus could be there to enable people to go "I'm Spartacus!" so I guess he could be good padding to avoid claim-fests. The Brooklynxman is an internal joke I guess. And Snape, Snape is another meme-material character.

Soo.. one thing i remember from xmen origins was that deadpool gained abilities from other mutants, which i gather from wiki is not canon from the comics?

He was a part of the Weapon X program, where he was a test-subject. That's where he got his regenerative ability (originally extracted from Wolverine I think, but it's not really a focus of it). Other than that he don't really have any abilities other than being really good at fighting and talking a lot. X-men Origins treated the Deadpool-character horribly (they stitched his mouth shut! WHY THE FLYING FUCK WOULD YOU MAKE A CHARACTER PEOPLE LOVE DUE TO HIM TALKING CONSTANTLY A MUTE!?), sorry I get a bit emotional about that.

[roband]

So there's at least one faction with a daykill then, possibly one shot.
I'd be inclined to say it was scum, as I hope that any town players out there wouldn't be so bold as to kill without any info on anyone.

Does anyone know if any of the characters are renowned for using acid? That's how Adacore was knocked out.

[VectorZero]

clawed ?= wolverine

snickety snick

[une see]

Well. Fuck. It's only Day 1, and already Captain America is dead? What the hell? How could the mafia have known? If they somehow found out Adacore was a town power role last night and conveniently had a day roleblock AND daykill power at their disposal today, that is just like the unluckiest thing that could ever happen...Well, at least now we know for sure that there is a mason group, aka the Avengers. Probably there are others, as Adacore was speculating just before he got killed. I would say Fantastic 4 and X-Men are almost definitely mason groups...perhaps then there are multiple scum groups as well?

Okay, well, this is extremely bad. But the least we can do is analyze the flavor for his death and get some information out of this ridiculously unlucky incident. The roleblocker attacked him with acid, so...maybe Scorpion? I'm not that well-versed in the Marvel universe, but that's the only one I can think of who uses acid. The actual killer could be either Lady Deathstrike or Sabertooth (Captain America's neck was clawed). I think probably the roleblocker and killer have some form of communication, since it seems WAY too unlucky for him to have been roleblocked and killed in one day by two villains who didn't talk or plan it out at all. Hmmm...but Scorpion is from the Spiderverse, and Lady Deathstrike/Sabertooth are from X-Men. Maybe that means there's only one mafia, with villains from different comic series? Okay, that's probably the case, since it said in the first post that Dr Doom gathered up the most notorious villains. So Dr Doom is probably the godfather of a single mafia which contains villains from multiple Marvel series.

I also think it's interesting that both Lady Deathstrike and Sabertooth are especial enemies of Wolverine...it would actually make more sense that whoever is the killer was trying to kill Wolverine (who they apparently thought was Adacore), not Captain America...maybe a lyncher of some sort?

The best we can hope for is that mafia won't be able to kill tonight, or will have less kills available to them tonight. It's extremely bad that Captain America is dead on the very first day...it seems kind of overpowered too, that mafia gets both a daykill and a day roleblock. Theoretically they could kill anyone on any day, then. The only way I could see this power not being ridiculously overpowered is if it's limited somehow, like they can only use it during day if they don't use it at night. But if they can just use it any time they want...? There has to be a catch somewhere in there...It makes me wonder how many other characters have day abilities...

I think it would be stupid to vote for the robots. It won't tell us anything. We need information about players. Although I do think the robots probably won't be doing anything good for town, especially the Dr Doom one...

VectorZero: are you seriously claiming miller? Aren't millers not supposed to know they're millers? Um...

[une see]

True, the daykill could be one-shot. Maybe the day roleblock is one-shot too, although it seems less likely to be. That would make it a lot better...

VZ: Wolverine is X-Men, though, which means he's probably town. As I said in the post just before this, Lady Deathstrike and Sabertooth both have claws as well, and they're villains, so the killer is more likely to be one of them.

[VectorZero]

EBWOP; sorry, i mean snickey snickey snoim

... Aren't millers not supposed to know they're millers? Um...

Err, no, certainly not often lately.

[roband]

Woah une see, that was a massive ramble. I can see where you're going, but everything you said is speculative (and not in the good way, in my eyes).
It seemed like you were just throwing ideas out there and assuming they were true.

I agree that it could be two bad guys from different factions, the knock out could have been done because they felt like it and the kill could've just been good (in their eyes) timing by another scum player/faction.

We can't assume much at the moment.

[mister k]

So, some flavour for the challenged.

Worthy of note, this contest is run by the Beyonder. The Beyonder first turned up in some splendid comics called Secret Wars http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Wars, it is a being of immense power capable of basically omnipotence. It forced heroes and villains to fight to understand the nature of desire. Worth noting- Doom managed to steal its power at some time. Dude is scary.

Captain America- super soldier with an invincible shield. Actually fairly mortal, but smart fast and got a powerful shield. Traditional leader of the avengers.
cyclops-got laser eyes. Is a mutant, and member of the x-men
The thing- one of the fantastic four, strong and tough. Up there as the strongest heroes.
Sue Richards-fantastic four, can go invisible and cast force fields around. Is actually pretty powerful due to the latter abilitity
Human Torch-fantastic four, can become living flame and fly around. Can go super hot (as hot as an exploding star)
Wart Machine-could mean war machine, an iron man back up guy.
Electra-martial artist. According to the wiki, is happy to kill.
Angel-flying x man
Rogue-X man who started off evil and killed Ms Marvel, becoming super strong and tough. Converted to good. If she touches anyone she gets their powers, if she keeps it up she kills them and gets their powers permenantly (I think)
Beast-X man. He's blue and tough!
Ice Man-X man. Guess what powers hes got?
Gambit-X man, got crazy telekensis stuff going on
Snape-sigh
Batman-If he's around, it means we've got DC characters, which is interesting. Batman can be obscenely powerful due to power of the plot- i.e. he knows every single opponents weakness.
Mandarin-evil martial artist with magic rings!
Green Goblin-


oooh I've just noticed America is dead. THAT is not good. I don't have time for more of this right now.

[Adacore]

Well... that was a short game.

*DEAD*

[_infina_]

it can be reasonably concluded that the killer was someone who was on in the 135 minutes between the knockout and kill. Knowing that, a list of suspects can be made.
A list of those who posted here during that time:
Misnomer
roband
Dr Ug
AngrySquirrel
VectorZero
negativeone
I was also on around that time, having received notice of a PM.

[Misnomer]

Urgh, NOT a good start - we could be looking at scum with both day and night kills, although it is possible that this could have been a hyper-active town vig (or for that matter, a sk).

As for the whole Beyonder/Deadpoooool stuff...
MOD: can we get a bastardry level for this game?

[Azrael001]

It could be that someone has the ability to only kill people who have been knocked out.

Who ever did do the kill, it seems more likely that it was a kill of opportunity than one of coordination.

[AngrySquirrel]

it can be reasonably concluded that the killer was someone who was on in the 135 minutes between the knockout and kill. Knowing that, a list of suspects can be made.
A list of those who posted here during that time:
Misnomer
roband
Dr Ug
AngrySquirrel
VectorZero
negativeone
I was also on around that time, having received notice of a PM.

It is fairly easy to be online and not post. Also to be online and turn off that thing that shows that you're online. This strikes me as a decoy-tactic, and otherwise quite far-fetched. Consider my scumdar pinged. I also know that there were several others who were online at that time due to me sending out a whole-fuckton of PM's (for Secret Santa) at around that time, all which were read almost immediately.

In my experience those going for posting times as a reason to throw suspicion is quite often scum wanting to show how pro-town they are in a relatively safe manner.

Vote: _infina_

[weiyaoli]

Sorry for not chiming in earlier, most of role spec is going right over my head.

I think the recruiting leader of the avengers might suggest that Adacore was the only (or one of a very few) Avenger so far since he probably didn't get the opportunity to recruit anyone except for perhaps N0. Either that or I guess that the Avengers were just a recruiting mason group which fits too. I agree with adacore that most of the superheroes are probably affliated to a group although the existance of nonsuperheros is interesting too (Either e_e is JJJ or one of the listed non-marvel characters).

I do know that comic book characters often flip-flop between "evil" and "good" though so it'll be interesting to see how that was put into the game.

[_infina_]

it can be reasonably concluded that the killer was someone who was on in the 135 minutes between the knockout and kill. Knowing that, a list of suspects can be made.
A list of those who posted here during that time:
Misnomer
roband
Dr Ug
AngrySquirrel
VectorZero
negativeone
I was also on around that time, having received notice of a PM.

It is fairly easy to be online and not post. Also to be online and turn off that thing that shows that you're online. This strikes me as a decoy-tactic, and otherwise quite far-fetched. Consider my scumdar pinged. I also know that there were several others who were online at that time due to me sending out a whole-fuckton of PM's (for Secret Santa) at around that time, all which were read almost immediately.

In my experience those going for posting times as a reason to throw suspicion is quite often scum wanting to show how pro-town they are in a relatively safe manner.

Vote: _infina_

I was making a list from what I currently had. I am attempting to find out who was the one who killed Adacore. If I was attempting to throw suspicion, I would not have included myself. Rushing into a d1 lynch with no discussion is a bad idea. Just about everything I do is to generate discussion.

[Azrael001]

Yeah, no. In this case I don't think it warrants a vote, but basing suspicion on who's online has been beaten to death. Our conclusions were:

1. It is a questionable use of the forum "hardware" to generate knowledge that you should not have.
2. It is unreliable because it is easily circumvented.

Honestly Une's post pinged me a bit, it seemed a little too distraught. My thoughts on reading the post can be summed up as

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

So I'm a bit torn. I'll probably end up throwing my vote on one of the people I've mentioned in this post. Infinia's more recent posts have made him seem worse, that's where I'm leaning currently...

[une see]

roband: yeah, I guess you're right. It seemed very coordinated to me, but it could just have been a really well-timed opportunity kill that wasn't planned beforehand. Not as likely, in my opinion, but possible. But what's wrong with analyzing the flavor of the mod post? From it, we find out that the knock out person is affiliated with acid, and the killer has claws. That's pretty useful, I think.

infina: Um...I agree with AS. That's not an assumption that you can make at all. Looking at post times is a terrible idea because it's not accurate and is not based on in-game material. You bringing it up as a potential tactic to catch scum is very suspicious.

I was making a list from what I currently had. I am attempting to find out who was the one who killed Adacore. If I was attempting to throw suspicion, I would not have included myself. Rushing into a d1 lynch with no discussion is a bad idea. Just about everything I do is to generate discussion.

The fact that you defend yourself by saying you wouldn't have included yourself if you were attempting to throw suspicion? Classic scum. "I wouldn't have done that if I was..." No one would really suspect you based on the fact that you were online when the kill was made, so including yourself on the list of those people is a non-factor. It actually seemed like you were just tacking yourself on at the end there to seem "town-like," setting up the opportunity to explain that you wouldn't have included yourself if you were scum. And what? Rushing into a D1 lynch with no discussion?? One person has voted for you so far. One. That's rushing into a lynch?

[Azrael001]

I missed the "I wouldn't have if I were scum" that Une caught. That's enough to push me over the edge.

Vote Infinia

[Lataro]

I agree that Infina is digging a bigger hole for himself with each post, however, we do have something to consider I think.

It appears scum has access to a number of, at least two so far, powers during the day. Should we consider speed lynching in order to avoid giving scum good opportunities to use their powers? This way if they want to use their day kills and whatnot, they'll be forced to do so hastily without being able to reflect on it, as opposed to leisurely spend a week reading over posts for role tells.

Thoughts?

[une see]

Well, there's already been one role block and one daykill. How many more powers do you think the scum could have? It's not a guarantee that they're even planning on using their other powers yet, since they might be one-shot or have other negative effects. Plus, it's not like them using their daykills hastily is going to be a very good thing...Maybe we could avoid them hitting another important power role, but we would still have dead townies and/or neutrals (well, best case scenario, there's another anti-town faction, and they will be hit, but I find this unlikely), and we would have significantly less information than we would have if we hadn't speed lynched. Day is almost always the most important time for town, and it seems like the costs to shortening the day outweigh the benefits, in this case. Especially since it's D1, and there are still people who haven't said anything (I think).

[_infina_]

But, don't you want me to give you Dr. Doom? I propose a trade. You give me Wolverine's head on a platter, and I will reveal Dr. Doom's identity. Adacore was my kill. I get one kill per day. I am Sabertooth, if the previous parts failed to give it away. I also know the other powers that the scum have.

[une see]

Well. I feel really vindicated now. I was totally right about the killer being either Lady Deathstrike or Sabertooth, and about him trying to kill Wolverine! If infina is telling the truth, that is...I don't know how much we can trust him about this roleclaim. I can't see how claiming a member of the mafia who is trying to kill Wolverine would help him at all if he wasn't actually a member of the mafia trying to kill Wolverine, but it seems way fishy that he would just flat-out claim like this. If he's telling the truth, though...

But we can't trust him even if he is telling the truth. He has no incentive to tell us who the other mafia members are. In fact, it's likely that winning with the mafia is a secondary goal for him, if he is in fact a lyncher for Wolverine. Man, I can't believe he just roleclaimed like this either, truth or no truth...this seems to really run against the grain of the game...