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[m] The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Game Ov-arrrr!

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:38 pm UTC
by cjdrum
The Sailors of Sea Nine!
Arrr! Ye seven men have been whisked away from your homes to join the crew of the White Perl!
Yer captain was settin' sail for what he called "Sea Nine" - he said that from the looks o' you it only made sense.

Then, one mornin', yer captain was found dead in his quarters. He had written a note, which one o' ye was able to uncipher - it simply said
"2 Ninja, 3 Vanilla, ?, ?".

With no one knowing what the message meant, ye decided t'let the ship sail to Sea Nine. One thing was known, though - at least two "ninjas" would have to be walkin' the plank!



Rules, from Weeks:
Spoiler:
1. You may only talk about this game in this thread and in an appropriately named spoiler in the Discussion Thread. If you are not playing this game, you may not post in this thread.
2. You may not play to lose. This will be dealt with at the mod's discretion (expect an immediate modkill if you play against your faction).
3. Do not lurk. If you no longer want to or can't play, ask the mod as soon as possible for a replacement. If there are no replacements, you must keep playing until a replacement arrives or the mod decides to modkill you.
4. You may not edit your posts.
5. You may not post your role PM, or quote verbatim from it. You may paraphrase.
6. Votes and questions must be posted in

bold, on a newline.

You may also ask questions to the mod in PM.
7. You may not post game content in this thread after you are dead. (You may post death flavor.) If you are lynched, you are dead when the hammer is cast. Else, you are dead when the mod says so.
8. You may not post game content at night. It is night when hammer is cast or when the aforementioned deadline is reached.
9. The mod's decisions are final.

Game Specifics:
Spoiler:
  • This game uses the C9 setup, which means that one of four setups is randomly chosen before the game begins. The four setups are:
    • 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Cop, 1 Doctor, 3 Vanilla Town
    • 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Cop, 4 Vanilla Town
    • 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Doctor, 4 Vanilla Town
    • 2 Mafia Goons, 5 Vanilla Town
  • Days will last for a maximum of 120 hours (or 5 days), and Nights will last for a maximum of 48 hours (2 days). The time period of 23:59 Friday through 23:59 Sunday (UTC-4) will not count towards this time, but you will still be allowed to post.
  • If a Day or Night ends before its deadline hits, the time will be "banked" to be able for use in later Days and Nights.
  • If the deadline for a Day does hit without a hammer, the player with the most votes will be lynched. In case of a tie:
    1. All players will be given 24 hours to change their votes.
    2. If, after 24 hours, there is still a tie, there will be no lynch. Otherwise the player with the most votes will be lynched.

Role PMs:
Spoiler:
Mafia Goon Role PM wrote:Role: Ninja (Mafia Goon)
Abilities: Each night, you may converse with your partner and decide on a person to kill. You may do this via PM or in this QuickTopic (whichever you would collectively prefer). You may not talk during the day.
Win Condition: You win when the Ninjas occupy the majority of living players.
Two players will receive this role.

Vanilla Town Role PM wrote:Role: Average Sailor (Vanilla Town)
Abilities: You are able to post and vote, but have no Night Actions.
Win Condition: You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated.
Three to five players will receive this role.

Cop Role PM wrote:Role: Cop
Abilities: Each night, you may PM me a target. At the start of the next day, I will PM you whether the target is Pirate or Ninja.
Win Condition: Yeah, piracy is illegal, but being a Ninja doesn't exactly have the highest payout. You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated.
No players or one player will receive this role.

Doctor Role PM wrote:Role: Pirate Defence (Doctor)
Abilities: Each night, you may PM me a target. If they were targetted for the Mafia kill, they would not die.
Win Condition: You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated.
No players or one player will receive this role.

Players:
  1. jayshu (small games yay)
    - - - Lynched D2 - Ninja
  2. Gopher of Pern (In 4 games atm, but would like to play....eh, why not? :))
    - - - Killed N1 - Vanilla Town
  3. roband (I was gone for SO long... Not.)
    - - - Lynched D3 - Ninja
  4. Ibarra (Finally, a small game)
    - - - Lynched D1 - Vanilla Town
  5. Robot_Raptor (huh, let's see how this goes)
    - - - Survived - Vanilla Town
  6. webby
    - - - Survived - Vanilla Town
  7. Chandani (no hablo pirate, lo siento)
    - - - Killed N2 - Doctor

Replacements
1.

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Pre-Game

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:39 pm UTC
by cjdrum
Randomising and sending roles now.

Roles sent, please confirm in thread.

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Pre-Game

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:43 am UTC
by Chandani
May I confirm here?
*insert some sort of boat meme aqui*

(Why yes I am a Spanish speaking pirate)

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Pre-Game

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:05 am UTC
by Gopher of Pern
Yargh, Ay be confirmin'.

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Pre-Game

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:42 am UTC
by jayhsu
Confirming. Appreciate the "weekends don't count" idea. I play less on weekends..

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Pre-Game

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:11 am UTC
by webby
Confirming.

FOS at Chandani for being too polite to be a pirate. :P

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Pre-Game

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:22 am UTC
by Chandani
You think I'm too polite, you flea-scratching dog? You couldn't even hold a pint of rum!

:P

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Pre-Game

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:16 am UTC
by Robot_Raptor
Reportin' fah duty cap'n

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Pre-Game

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:26 am UTC
by Ibarra
Confirmed, though I'll be scrapping the pirate accent ;)

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Pre-Game

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:57 am UTC
by roband
I'm more of a "doesn't pay for music" pirate than a Johnny Depp, but please accept me ;)

Conforming.

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:29 am UTC
by cjdrum
All players have received and confirmed their roles.

It is now Day One. With 7 players, it takes 4 to lynch ready the plank!
Deadline is at 04:00 Saturday, UTC.

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:51 am UTC
by Ibarra
With 7 players and 2 scum, that would account for two days of mislynching town before Ly-Lo. (5-2, 4-2, 3-2)

As we have nothing to go on, RQS time: (if you've answered already, then don't be lazy - you can just copy-paste what you've said before anyway :| )
1) What alignment and role do you prefer, and why?
2) Would you lynch lurkers?
3) When lynching, do you rely on your gut or your analysis?
4) What do you think about using meta?

My Answers:
1) Scum, because it is more challenging
2) Active lurkers (those who intentionally lurk), yes. Passive lurkers (those who lurk because they really can't be online), I leave the mod to take care of.
3) Gut to point, analysis to give support.
4) I think meta shouldn't be used that much in a game. People's meta may change, so using it is unreliable.

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:58 am UTC
by roband
Ibarra wrote:With 7 players and 2 scum, that would account for two days of mislynching town before Ly-Lo. (5-2, 4-2, 3-2)

As we have nothing to go on, RQS time: (if you've answered already, then don't be lazy - you can just copy-paste what you've said before anyway :| )
1) What alignment and role do you prefer, and why?
2) Would you lynch lurkers?
3) When lynching, do you rely on your gut or your analysis?
4) What do you think about using meta?


1. Town and masons. I like to talk, a lot. Exchanging PMs with people during the day and night is enjoyable to me. In fact, night chat is the only side of being scum that I really lilke.
2. Stoooooopid question. Everyone answers it the way you just did...
3. Gut normally. Sometimes logic, but it normally ends up being bad :(
4. Mav's not playing this one, is she? Then we're fine ;) Meta has it's place, imo. Use past games as reference. Don't use timestamps etc.

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:56 am UTC
by webby
As I said in the last game, I don't see all that much use in these questions, and simply asking them seems to contradict your answer to question 4 (especially if we're just going to copy-paste our answers anyway).

But here are my answers from last time:
1. Never been scum online so hard to say. I think I'd enjoy being part of a (known) team more and having more knowledge, so probably scum or masons would be my preferred roles. Often IRL I'm the gamemaster/mod anyway, which is in its own way interesting because you can see people's actions with complete knowledge of their roles.
2. Wouldn't lynch someone just for lurking, but all else being equal would lynch the more lurky player.
3. I try to use analysis wherever possible. Difficult because I'm just starting and don't know the people I'm playing with.

And the new question:
4. Yes, I think it's important to keep in mind how people acted in previous games. For example, there are some people who always seem scummy regardless of their actual alignment.

It's actually only one day of misplanking we can have - it's 5-2 now, after a misplank and a nightkill it would be 3-2.

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:40 am UTC
by Chandani
1. I discover I like being vanilla, because it's less stressful in the end. Hmm.
2. Active lurking=bad. Passive lurking=mod fun.
3. Gut leads to analysis: logic wins in the end.
4. Meta is only useful for seeing patterns and stuff. Timestamps are stoopid.

Sooo.... which setting would you prefer and why?
I would like a cop one (which we have a 50% chance of) because cops could be pretty useful in directing our lynch, especially considering the small numbers.

Speaking of small numbers... since one mislynch would be bad... do we want to talk about No-Lynching? Especially considering that a mislynch could lead to a LYLO scenario (am I right there?) in two days... NL may help make it easier for town.

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:36 am UTC
by Gopher of Pern
Argh, me harties!

1) I prefer ye vanilla town. I seem to win more cause o it.
2) lurkers? no be (active) lurkering here, or they be walkin tha plank!
3) guts are fer stringing landlubbers up! The head is where its at!
4) Meta-pirates are real pirates!

yoho, yoho, a pirates life for me!

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:30 pm UTC
by roband
Aaaaand, I'm already regretting not waiting for a turbo! :D

Ah well.

GoP's answer to number 4 is confusing me. As in, I don't understand what it means.

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:03 pm UTC
by Chandani
Meta-ing is okay?
As I said before, no hablo pirate.

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:18 pm UTC
by Robot_Raptor
Ibarra wrote:1) What alignment and role do you prefer, and why?
2) Would you lynch lurkers?
3) When lynching, do you rely on your gut or your analysis?
4) What do you think about using meta?.


1) don't have one, this is my first game after all.
2) yes
3) analysis
4) use all the information you have, just don't be stupid about it.

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:27 pm UTC
by roband
R_R - do you mind if I ask your gender? I like to address people using the correct pronouns if possible.

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:44 pm UTC
by jayhsu
jayhsu from Anonymafia wrote:
1) What alignment and role do you prefer, and why?
2) Would you lynch lurkers?
3) When lynching, do you rely on your gut or your analysis?
4) Do you consider meta in making your cases?


1. It depends on the game I think, but overall I enjoy being scum and town pretty equally - there's fun in both (I am currently thinking of The Resistance). Although getting outed as 'scum' whether or not you actually are and trying to fight your way back can be frustrating (especially when people are in groupthink).

2. I think I have lynched lurkers in the past, but am generally against it. There is usually enough information to not lynch a lurker.

3. I try to do more analysis. Unfortunately, most of my analyses seem to come up town. Which I suppose makes sense, actually.

4. I generally do not, as I try not to play in many games at once and thus do not pick up on 'tells' quickly.



I will return to comment more on the game shortly.

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:46 pm UTC
by jayhsu
roband wrote:2. Stoooooopid question. Everyone answers it the way you just did...


And yet you did not actually answer. Curious.

Stuff we already know, but I like things in percentages:
-75% chance of at least one power role.
-50% chance there is a Cop (same for Doc)
-25% chance both Cop and Doc.
-25% chance Cop and not Doc (and vice versa).
-4 town on average, 1 power role on average.

Having the cop would be more useful than the doctor, but if we have both, we can do the "follow-the-cop" strategy (see history of C9). Unfortunately, without knowing the exact setup, we can have falseclaims.

Chandani suggest NL. I don't think this is a good idea unless we are relatively sure there is a cop (and discovering that is also dangerous). The reason for this is that by choosing NL, you will have the same information the next day as the current one, but with one fewer person (due to NKs, doctors notwithstanding).

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:18 pm UTC
by roband
My point is that I would've answered it in the same way he did. And the same way the majority of people answer it.
i.e. there's no point me saying it, as it's a standard response.

re: NLs, I don't think we should consider it right now.
Assuming the worst, no power roles, even if we NL on day 1, a mislynch on day 2 leaves us with 2 scum and 2 town on day 3.
Assuming the best, NL might be an idea, but the power roles shouldn't be claiming here. Not yet anyway.

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:24 pm UTC
by Gopher of Pern
No lynch would be really bad. It is 5/2 atm. We NL, it goes to 4/2, where the best strategy IS to NL. Then we'd go to 3/2, where we would be day2 if we mislynched. I suppose we would get more time this way, but we would lose voting information. The only reason I see to do that was if we knew we had a cop, where we would get information each day. As it is, theres no real benefit from doing it.

Sorry for the confusion for the last question. I like meta analysis.

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:54 pm UTC
by webby
We seem to lack activity here, and we have four days left to find a plank target.

Everyone has answered the questions. Nothing particularly jumps out from that and indeed I don't generally like the random questions thing because answering them is a way for people to look like they've posted content, but we're not likely to get information out of it.

So apart from that, we've had one sentence about the set-up from Ibarra, a suggestion from Chandani that we discuss a no-lynch, percentages on the set-up and a refutation of the no-lynch from jayshu, as well as the suggestion that it's 'curious' that roband didn't answer the second question and agreement that no-lynch would not be desirable from roband and Gopher. Nothing from Robot_Raptor yet.

These sorts of games are hard to start because there's no rolespec etc. to do. So in the interests of activity, lets start by asking some more directed questions at players:

jayshu - What was so curious about roband answering the second question in the way he did? Was the implication that it was in some way scummy?
Chandani - Do you now agree that we need to lynch today?
Gopher and roband - Why did you wait until after jayshu explained that no-lynch was not favourable before agreeing, when you both posted after Chandani brought it up?
Ibarra - Do you think we can gain anything useful from the answers your questions, and if so, what?
Robot_Raptor - Welcome, you're new here? You haven't posted apart from to answer the questions, so here's a more general one - what sort of things for you would distinguish someone being town from being scum and what weight would you put on them? For example, some things might be posting frequency, aggressiveness, defensiveness, faulty logic?

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:51 pm UTC
by Ibarra
RQS was meant to spark up some discussion.
Also the questions are useful. They give out information about a player that if one hasn't played before with that player.
Not to mention it is a good way to check any change in stance later on. (Re: Meta and Lurking mostly)

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:55 pm UTC
by Ibarra
EBWOP:
webby wrote:These sorts of games are hard to start because there's no rolespec etc. to do.

Exactly why Random Voting Stage (RVS) tends to be useful at times. It allows at least some sort of input, but apparently, these forums don't like RVS.
Incidentally, I am willing to try something like that though to spark up some more discussion.

Vote: Chandani for always being opposite faction my role is in.

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:34 pm UTC
by Chandani
THAT IS NOT NICE MAN. This is something called BAD META. This is what is making it hard for other players to play here.
At least if you were going to vote for me, you might as well given a reason: for instance, suggesting a No-Lynch (which, thanks to GOP and his numbers, helps me see that it really isn't much better unless we got a cop. Which we don't know)

So I guess we just need to be really sure about who we're lynching and not go for a lurker lynch in the end. Which hopefully will be easy to do in this game.

@Webby, just to make it clear: Yeah, I see it. If the cop suddenly decides to claim out of the blue (and even then, we really can't trust it because of falseclaim possibilities) then we might want to rethink it, but I doubt that is going to happen in a way that isn't winey and makes everyone confused and angry.

Are we randomly voting to make people discuss? Because I'm going to
Vote: Ibarra
purely on OMGUS and horrible meta and being a jerk.
(Note: these might not be mutually exclusive)

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:44 pm UTC
by jayhsu
@Webby: Seemed dodgy to me, and would you not agree? Of course it's implied that he agrees with the consensus (lynching active lurkers, but leaving passive lurkers out), but if so, why not be clear about it? It sets up a possible situation where later, if he happens to contradict his implication, he can argue that his answer was never necessarily meant to be that way. Being clear about things only helps town.

It's not a lot to go on, I admit - but it's just suspicious to me, personally. I wouldn't vote Roband on the basis of it, but it certainly doesn't make him town.

You bring up an interesting point regarding Roband and GOP not commenting on NL until after my own post. I hadn't noticed that. I think I'd give them the benefit of the doubt (perhaps they just did not read Chandani's post closely? I certainly am guilty of not always reading thoroughly), but it's worth looking into.

Also, note that Robot_Raptor did the same.

Additional thoughts on no-lynch: I think this will only be a viable strategy if we have a cop - otherwise, as previously stated, ending one day with no-lynch just means you have the same information the next day, but with one fewer town player - comparably worse.

If we do have a cop (and there's a 50% chance that we do), NL becomes a feasible strategy. This is of course complicated by potential false-claims (cop or not). If we do have a cop claim (and the earliest anyone should claim is D2), we will likely have to follow its recommendation.

I am considering scenarios now, but they are based on an important question:

Mafia Goon Role PM wrote:Role: Ninja (Mafia Goon)
Abilities: Each night, you may converse with your partner and decide on a person to kill. You may do this via PM or in this QuickTopic (whichever you would collectively prefer). You may not talk during the day.
Win Condition: You win when the Ninjas occupy the majority of living players.
Two players will receive this role.

What exactly is defined by a majority? I assume that Ninjas can only win if there are 2-1 (ninja-town), 2-0, or 1-0. Is this correct?

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:05 pm UTC
by Ibarra
Incidentally Chandani, the reason why I voted for you was pure random.
Look at how it's done at MafiaScum (http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=17479) if you must.

Anyway, what I'm more shocked of is your reaction to my vote. I find it too much for a simply random vote.
It's one thing to Random Vote, however to say your vote wasn't Random but OMGUS...

(AHHHH I can't post links)

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:17 pm UTC
by Chandani
Ibarra:
When I wake up in the morning, I'm not in the greatest of moods.
Incidentally, when I see a vote and see the reasoning for it (right after it, not the rest of your post: that part really didn't get into my head until I calmed down) is horrible meta, I get pissed.
And ignore the rest of the post.

My vote was purely on emotion at that time. Thus, not random. Thus, OMGUS. I think I put that (random voting thing) in there as sarcasm or something. I actually have no idea now. It's very weird.
Frankly, even though I realize it was random voting, I'm still feeling pissed, so I'm going to
Unvote
and just be really angry at you.

(You can post links after you hit 5 posts in your post count: post in random places and then you shall be happy)

I'm not going to vote randomly because it's not the style in this fora: other foras have it, it's what they do, it's okay. Here, we're supposed to be creatures of reason or something. Mafia seems to be held to a higher standard and such, RVS isn't expected or supposed to happen. I think.

If you want to know why I was horribly pissed about meta... I guess you'll have to wait for Resistance to end.

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:12 pm UTC
by Gopher of Pern
webby wrote:Gopher and roband - Why did you wait until after jayshu explained that no-lynch was not favourable before agreeing, when you both posted after Chandani brought it up?


Honestly, I probably missed it the first time. My first post was in a bit of a rush, hence the bad answer to the 4th question. Then I was just clarifying how it would work if we did NL.

Re: Ibarra v Chandani:

I can understand Chandani's reaction. I looked at the vote and went wtf? I didn't know it was a random vote. I think the OMGUS was totally deserved. Still, it looks like a townie fight to me.

Chandani: Please don't mention other games in this thread. It could influence my opinion in that game!

You must realise even if we do have a cop, the chance of them dying in the first 2 days is reasonably high, so we wouldn't get the information anyway.

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:14 am UTC
by cjdrum
jayhsu wrote:What exactly is defined by a majority? I assume that Ninjas can only win if there are 2-1 (ninja-town), 2-0, or 1-0. Is this correct?

The Ninjas win when, on any given day, they are able to force the lynch to a Town player.
If the last Day consists of a Town player and a Ninja, the Day will be a forced No-Lynch and Ninjas will win.


Also, vote count:
Chandani (1) - Ibarra

~51.75 hours until deadline

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:38 am UTC
by webby
My thoughts:

Ibarra vs Chandani - Nothing really significant there - I understand Ibarra comes from a forum where random voting is the accepted way to start a game? Slightly uneasy about Chandani simply because I think it was a bit of an overreaction and could have been aimed at starting a bandwagon on Ibarra (and I don't think she thought the random vote was scummy?), but equally people will be angry at being voted for for no reason regardless of whether they're town or scum. Also, the unvote lowers my suspicions (it would have been easy for her to keep it on until Ibarra removed his vote).

Jayshu, no I didn't see anything dodgy about it, I thought it was clear enough. In regards to Gopher and roband (I'm not counting Robot_Raptor because he(?)'s new, so may not have known, and also because he didn't post agreeing with you like the other two did), I guess they did at least bring up new content when they agreed with you - it wasn't quite just saying exactly the same thing as you. I can believe that they missed it/didn't have enough time to deal with it the first time, so only a minor point for now.

Not sure that that's much help - while nobody has been the perfect townie, equally nobody has done enough yet to warrant a vote or even a FOS. Robot_Raptor needs to post more.

In regards to the when scum win - 2-2 is a forced no-lynch as well, which with the nightkill is a definite loss.

Something I noticed, but the mod probably wouldn't be happy with, is that if we want an extra 24 hours before deadline, we can force a tie. :P Maybe we should keep to the spirit of the rule, but it does mean that we don't need to be so careful about avoiding ties (in a couple of other games I've played, tie = no lynch).

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:43 am UTC
by roband
sorry for, what I would call, my inactivity over the last coupla days.

My reason for not talking about the NL until after my initial post is because I was concentrating on answering the random questions. I also wanted to think through the NL options as thoroughly as possible. In the past, I've been too quick to rush into decisions - and I want to fix that in future Mafia games.

I don't like random votes, but damn did chandani react badly... I don't know quite what to make of it.
I have no particular hard feelings towards Jay for what seems a slightly picky comment - we're in early game with not much to go on.

webby - a clever idea, but I'd rather play the game than play the system ;)

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:26 pm UTC
by roband
webby, considering you pulled me and GoP up for agreeing with jay belatedly, I was surprised to see you say the below,
webby wrote:
In regards to the when scum win - 2-2 is a forced no-lynch as well, which with the nightkill is a definite loss


as its basically a copy of what I've said previously.

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:30 pm UTC
by Ibarra
Unvote
FoS: Chandani though for the reaction.

Regarding the No-Lynch:
I agree with GoP that the voting patterns observed would be better information than a cop or doctor who may not even be there.

About RVS:
It's supposed to bring out information that would have gone hidden without it. For example, Chandani's reaction to my random vote was enough to spark up some sort of discussion. That's the aim of RVS.

Also I don't think Raptor has commented on anything other than my questions? With a 5 RL-day Day, he/she (I'm betting on he though) should start posting.

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:46 pm UTC
by jayhsu
cjdrum wrote:
jayhsu wrote:What exactly is defined by a majority? I assume that Ninjas can only win if there are 2-1 (ninja-town), 2-0, or 1-0. Is this correct?

The Ninjas win when, on any given day, they are able to force the lynch to a Town player.
If the last Day consists of a Town player and a Ninja, the Day will be a forced No-Lynch and Ninjas will win.



With my understanding of the rules then, if there are 2 scum and 2 town remaining, scum win - they both vote for one of the townies and force a tie at best, resulting in a NL, after which there is a NK. The success of the NK is irrelevant (regarding a doctor), as scum could continue this farce ad infinitum until the doctor guesses incorrectly (faster if the doctor cannot doctor themselves).

Can the doctor target themselves?

This bodes poorly then. I will draw up worst-case scenarios asap, as we are running out of time.

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:09 pm UTC
by jayhsu
Based on my understanding of the rules, scum win under the following conditions:

2 scum, 2 town
2 scum, 1 town
2 scum, 0 town
1 scum, 1 town
1 scum, 0 town

Worst-case scenarios
NO cop, NO doctor
D1: 2 scum, 5 town
D2: 2 scum, 3 town (1 mislynch, 1 successful NK) <<Mislynch, Lose.

1 cop
D1: 2 scum, 5 town
D2: 2 scum, 3 town (1 mislynch, 1 successful NK) <<A cop must claim this day if a mislynch is about to occur. It is also probably a good idea to claim if the cop received a scum result.

1 doctor
D1: 2 scum, 5 town
D2: 2 scum, 3 town (1 mislynch, 1 successful NK) <<Mislynch, Lose. See reasoning in previous post.

Takeaways:
-We are afforded one mislynch at most if there is no doctor.
-With a doctor, we are afforded two mislynches, if, and only if, the doctor is perfect in guarding against NKs.
-The earliest a cop should claim is on D2, and if there are 3 town remaining they must claim if a mislynch is about to occur.

Question: Will roles be revealed on death or on the next day?

Important for falseclaims.

Re: The Sailors of Sea Nine! ~ Daaaay One!

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:23 pm UTC
by jayhsu
EBWOP: Whoops, just noticed that webby came to the same conclusion as I did re 2-2 scum-town. Regardless, it bears repeating so we do not make a mistake in counting.