xkcd

by **Angua** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:05 pm UTC

I once played in a game with a D3 jester, so it's possible that they had to wait. However, I think it's more likely that they are tyring to get us to think that they are a jester.

by **greenlover** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:16 pm UTC

FaoT wrote:I think one person in GL's independent gang should come forward to back up his story. GL has claimed night immunity (which I believe) but that means he can't be investigated which I don't like. We could either lynch the other gang member to confirm his story, hope that we have an investigation power or hope that the claimant draws a NK.

That sounds like a very bad deal for my gang and for the town in general. First off, I don't want to bank on my power solely to win, cause of the various specifications listed on it. It sounds like Entorpy had a day cop, so it wouldn't surprise me if one of his buddies (if he has any) would have a day kill.

Also, no matter how the pieces fall, I'm going to be down a teammate. I'm highly skeptical that any scum group would nk a survivor when there are town to go after, so either 1) if we have a cop investigate my teammate and claim the result, we'll be down a cop, or 2) if we lynch my teammate, we will have just wasted a lynch on a survivor. And, to top it off, there is still justification to lynch me because knowing I didn't lie about my role != knowing I didn't lie about my alignment. But, of course, by pointing out the nasty consequences of your plan I'm merely confirming myself to be anti town in your eyes. ::sigh::

If you think I'm scum, then lynch me. If you don't, then don't. Regardless, its statistically unlikely that the existence of my faction will remain unconfirmed for long, assuming we have 3 nk's tonight and lynch someone today.

by **mpolo** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:00 pm UTC

The whole "jester" thing has an awful lot of wine, especially since it is PhoenixEnigma who brought up the possibility in the first place. I think that the response would have been a little different if we were dealing with a jester.

To FAOT, Infina's "code" was certain letters capitalized in a text. And the message was something like "I didn't find anything." There was some thought that he was trying to get a message out, but it was generally taken as just wine.

by **ForAllOfThis** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:47 pm UTC

Oh, I can safely say that code has absolutely nothing to do with this role. That was just infina, being infina.

So greenlover has refused outright to get someone to confirm his story.

First doesn't want to 'bank on his power' to win, claiming that there is a possible day kill. I see absolutely no evidence of a day kill being present in this game, and if there is, why would it be wasted on an independent instead of shortening town's numbers in order to get closer to a win? Hell, even GL agrees with this:

I'm highly skeptical that any scum group would nk a survivor when there are town to go after

By the same logic, why would scum DK a survivor when there are town to go after. Before someone suggests lyncher, give me one good reason why they wouldn't have used it by today.

Second, claims that no matter what happens that he will be 'down a teammate' and that is bad for his faction, but goes on to suggest that with 3NK's floating around that he will be down a teammate soon anyway -

Regardless, its statistically unlikely that the existence of my faction will remain unconfirmed for long, assuming we have 3 nk's tonight and lynch someone today.

so I honestly don't see the problem with the claim. Also

I'm highly skeptical that any scum group would nk a survivor when there are town to go after

by his own logic claiming would make sense because his team are less likely to be NKed meaning they would survive longer. Lynching the claimant was just a suggestion, there is nothing to say that we were 100% going to do it. Although you say we would 'lose a cop' which is BS because a cop would only claim if they got a scum result on your supporter. Losing that cop for two confirmed scum would definitely be worth it.

I will be voting for you and your pathetic excuses today, because your claim is unbelieveable and doesn't fit with the flavour of the game. On top of that, I've offered you a chance to help prove that you are telling the truth but instead you've only provided excuses which contradict other things that you have said. For a survivor role, you don't seem to be very interested in surviving.

Vote: Greenlover

by **Mavketl** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:56 pm UTC

Oh, fuck this.

I'm in Winston's survivor gang, as I think should be obvious to anyone paying attention to me defending greenlover all game long. The only reason I didn't explicitly claim it after your first post was because you proposed to lynch the person who claimed and I have plans that need me alive for a little bit longer (see my earlier post) so I don't want to get lynched today. FYI: I still don't.

I don't think I'll be disclosing anything else about my role just now.

I think all of that was pretty obvious already (since everyone had me pegged as "with greenlover") and your insistence in a "someone needs to claim or I KILL YOU" sort of strategy is crap. You're pointing and yelling and trying to paint us (Winston's gang) as scummy while there is no fucking reason to be doing that right now. Unless there is one scum team clearly way ahead of everyone else, survivors want to play with town and get rid of people who have kills. I definitely want to play with town, because it's what I'm good at. There are clearly roleblockers in this game, so greenlover's hesitation to rely on his ability (especially now that everyone knows it) makes perfect sense. I don't know what your problem is, and I don't know what _infina_'s problem was, and I don't think the two of you are acting particularly townie.

by **ForAllOfThis** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:26 pm UTC

Was that so hard? It would be good if we can get a cop on Mav tonight, and only claim if it turns up scum.

Unvote

It would also be a good idea to remind yourself that I have just been replaced into this game and really haven't read the thread in any great detail (due to starting a new job this week and trying to contribute as much as possible to this discussion, rather than spending the time reading) so I'm seeing everything at face value. Greenlover claimed a band of independent survivors which is relatively easy to confirm with very little risk (even by his own logic) yet refusing to do so. I'd put two and two together in any game and come up with a scum result at that, so there is no need to blow your top, Mav.

Thankyou for confirming greenlovers story though. I'll sit down and have another read when I get a chance to see if I can pick up something that I will have inevitably missed from other posts I have only skim-read.

by **greenlover** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:29 pm UTC

ForAllOfThis wrote:First doesn't want to 'bank on his power' to win, claiming that there is a possible day kill. I see absolutely no evidence of a day kill being present in this game, and if there is, why would it be wasted on an independent instead of shortening town's numbers in order to get closer to a win? Hell, even GL agrees with this:

I'm highly skeptical that any scum group would nk a survivor when there are town to go after

By the same logic, why would scum DK a survivor when there are town to go after. Before someone suggests lyncher, give me one good reason why they wouldn't have used it by today.

Well, I do plan on suggesting lyncher. And one good reason would probably be to waggle out information regarding my teammates - which, I might add, is exactly what you were trying to do. Hm.

FaoT wrote:Second, claims that no matter what happens that he will be 'down a teammate' and that is bad for his faction, but goes on to suggest that with 3NK's floating around that he will be down a teammate soon anyway

Exactly. So why worsen the chances of my faction surviving by throwing up one of my teammates onto the lynching block?

FaoT wrote:by his own logic claiming would make sense because his team are less likely to be NKed meaning they would survive longer. Lynching the claimant was just a suggestion, there is nothing to say that we were 100% going to do it.

Not if a certain faction (like Rony's, for example) had a victory condition of eradicating my faction. Which, given Entropy's desire to lynch me on D1 and D2, seems pretty likely (and drop the reverse psychology argument, please. It seems pretty obvious that Entropy wanted me dead on D1, before he even mentioned a word about the mysterious info).

FaoT wrote:Although you say we would 'lose a cop' which is BS because a cop would only claim if they got a scum result on your supporter. Losing that cop for two confirmed scum would definitely be worth it.

If the cop doesn't claim, how would you know if my teammate was really in my gang? That doesn't make any sense.

ninja'd - and FaoT's is backing down now. I'n honestly curious why FaoT is so certain that a cop exists in this game, when none of the traditional roles have showed up yet in the kills.

by **ForAllOfThis** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:46 pm UTC

I'm only going to respond to the final point because Mav has claimed and the rest of the argument seems somewhat moot now. Obviously if a cop doesn't come forward and claim then we don't know but I would rather not know than lose a cop who could turn up a scum later down the road. Really a cop should only come forward if your lying.

& I'm not certain a cop exists, just hopeful. Even if not, it's unlikely that scum would be willing to tie themselves together in the way you and Mav have now done, which makes your claim much more likely than several posts back.

by **slbub** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:00 am UTC

Okay so I just got back from a weekend trip with no computer, so I hope this is in time.

I don't really know what should be done with PE right now other than everyone keeping an eye on them, I would like it if the cypher was explained as to why it was even brought into this game and not some thing like the discussion board or another thread. I will leave my vote there for the time being, nobody else seems scummy enough to get the vote changed, yet.

@FAOT: A cop would be good if there is one, but why Mav and not GL? Because of the night action immunity they claimed?

by **roband** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:57 am UTC

Slbub, you missed the deadline by an hour. But as I set the deadline at stupid o'clock in my timezone, you were lucky

Working out if we need any mod kills now, I'll let you know ASAP.

by **roband** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:00 am UTC

Loernz has been modkilled for not posting in the specified time. His role will be revealed upon the start of D4.

by **Angua** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:22 am UTC

Mavketl wrote:#. You're pointing and yelling and trying to paint us (Winston's gang) as scummy while there is no fucking reason to be doing that right now. .

You do realise that until someone claimed, we only had greenlover's word that there is even a Winston's survivor's gang in the first place. For all we knew, Winston's gang have could either a) not exist, or b) have a different aim than just surviving. There was every reason to be suspicious of a claim of a gang that no one had considered as a possibility from those that know the flavour.

by **BoomFrog** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:42 pm UTC

Well I'm still pretty sure that infina//FAOT is in Rory's gang and Rory's gang has the goal of killing off Winston's gang. Does that make sense from the movie? FAOT pushed pretty hard for more members to claim, which I think really doesn't make sense because as GL pointed out Winston's gang existing does not prove they are survivors.

Still I do believe that Winston's gang would be one of the few without a NK.

PE is either a D3 jester or really bored with this game. I'm inclined to think it is the later which probably means he is in one of the gangs of 1 or 2 left alive. Probably 1... which means it'd be good to lynch him and eliminate a NK. Damn, talked myself in a circle there. Still D3 jester is very possible and killing FAOT, may still eliminate a NK.

Slbub seems acummy but what else is new. Its hard to swing a cat without hitting scum in here.

by **roband** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:55 pm UTC

Votals
FAOT 1 (BoomFrog)
slbub 2 (RoadieRich, PhoenixEnigma)
Greenlover 1 (slbub)
PhoenixEnigma 1 (Angua)

Deadline is in 3 days, 7 hours and about 10 minutes.

by **Mavketl** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:05 pm UTC

Oh by the way, I forgot to mention this in my previous post, but I just wanted to point out again that seeming to know the magical "kill the killers" win condition is easily faked. I seem to have accidentally faked it myself by saying that all townish factions want to eliminate NKs, which I think is just common sense, but it did not mean that that was in my role PM. I figure it's similarly easy to fake by scum.

by **ForAllOfThis** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:05 pm UTC

Not much more activity going on here. Very busy at the moment so going to keep the post short. I think angua is trying very hard to lead a lynch on PE, who is equally trying to bait a lynch. Scum love easy lynches a lot more than town, and angua's attempts to start a bandwagon on PE is slightly suspicous. So for now:

Vote: Angua

Although it will be interesting to see votes/opinions leading up to the lynch.

by **roband** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:09 pm UTC

Up the activity guys...

by **BoomFrog** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:42 am UTC

We've got six votes down out of twelve people. Lets have the non-voters put some input in here.

by **RoadieRich** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:44 am UTC

I'm with boomfrog, at least in part: I don't know which gang FOAT is with, it does look like he's trying to eliminate Winston's gang. And that doesn't seem like a hugely towny aim at the moment, as I'm inclined to believe the survivor claim.

I've been re-reading, and it's looking a lot like slbub's apparent scumminess can be put down to noobishness. See: missing deadlines twice, the rushed tone of a couple of posts, the frequent ebwops. I think I'm forced to swap my top two suspicions.

unvote

vote: FoaT

by **Angua** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:25 am UTC

ForAllOfThis wrote:Not much more activity going on here. Very busy at the moment so going to keep the post short. I think angua is trying very hard to lead a lynch on PE, who is equally trying to bait a lynch. Scum love easy lynches a lot more than town, and angua's attempts to start a bandwagon on PE is slightly suspicous. So for now:

Vote: Angua

Although it will be interesting to see votes/opinions leading up to the lynch.

Or maybe, I just find it frustrating to have some people only post minimum content, and being obtuse at that.

by **Mavketl** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:45 am UTC

I'm going to vote for FAOT. He seems very anti-my-group, which might be biasing me a little, but I think his approach to this whole thing was not townie at all. I've considered holding off on the vote for a little while so it doesn't look like I'm taking advantage of RoadieRich's change of mind, but in the end I think that
1) even though it might look better to wait, I think it's better for town if I just place my vote now
2) after my previous posts, it not like my opinion of FAOT wasn't obvious already
3) 3 votes isn't exactly hammer, anyway

Vote: ForAllOfThis

by **ForAllOfThis** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:17 pm UTC

I'm not in rorys gang but I need to tell you guys that I'm being squeezed (nothing to lose if I'm going to be lynched anyway). I've been anonymously held at gunpoint since D2 and during the day I'm told who I should be trying to get lynched. I can be notified of a change of target at any point during the day (which was Greenlover, and is now Angua) and I have to try to steer the lynch towards them, but I don't have to vote for them.

If the person holding me at gunpoint is killed or lynched, then I am free man again. This might very well be my last post because I can be killed at any time night or day. The only reason for keeping me around anymore is to leave spilled wine. Hopefully that will be enough (yes, I am begging you not to kill me) and I'll be leaving my vote on Angua as an extra incentive for my captive to not shoot, but it would be wise not to follow it.

by **mpolo** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:22 pm UTC

Sorry for not saying much for a few hours. The current thinking about ForAllOfThis agrees with some of the feelings I've been having.

On the one hand, I am thankful for getting an active player into this game, but he has been highly aggressive, and using that aggressivity against apparent independents. Of course, if the whole "independent Winston group" is a ruse, he would be justified in this. However, it seems that the independent group does exist, so that the level of concentration on it is ultimately bad.

PhoenixEnigma's whole "let's post some random garbage" ploy, combined with his "lynch me if you want, but think about why I might have made such a move" seems like a crazy jester strategy, or a "get the heat off of scum" move. I wouldn't mind if somebody killed him to take care of the latter, but in the case of the former, I really don't want to reward lurkiness on days 1 and 2 by giving a win…

As FAOT is already at three, I don't want to turn this into a total wagon before he can respond to the growing wave against him. So I'm going to just say that he is my #1 choice at the moment.

Ninjaed. I guess that's another reason not to vote right away.

by **Mavketl** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:26 pm UTC

FAOT: I notice you left out your own role and win condition from that. Let me guess, an independent with nobody to vouch for them but completely harmless to town?

by **mpolo** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:32 pm UTC

He also says he has to lead an attack on Angua and then pulls out a butter knife to do so: I've voted for her, but please don't follow my vote! That makes me wonder about the whole kidnapping mechanic. Though maybe the kidnapper gets to decide whether he has complied or not.

by **Angua** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:40 pm UTC

FaoT - you're going to have to tell us more about yourself if you expect us to even remotely believe that you are being 'squeezed'. Hopefully you will respond fast enough before your squeezer decides to kill you.

by **ForAllOfThis** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:42 pm UTC

Yes the kidnapper does decide whether or not I've complied and can choose to kill me based on that information. Telling you that I'm being forced to lead lynches is basically the same as me saying don't follow my votes. I wasn't told that I couldn't tell people that I was kidnapped, as long as I follow the instructions I'm given.

I won't be divulging information about my role or win condition Mav, because it creates wine. It's about the only reason for him to keep me alive.

by **Mavketl** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:46 pm UTC

Yeah well, you're not giving us any reasons to keep you alive. Plus I think you're lying.

by **Angua** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:52 pm UTC

Yeah, I think that this whole wine thing isn't keeping you alive - it's just making you more likely to be lynched now. Do you want to help town out and give us what we can so hopefully we can lynch someone more useful, or do you just want us to waste our lynch on you (this is assuming you're telling the truth).

by **ForAllOfThis** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:54 pm UTC

I'll help town when I'm not being held at gunpoint.

by **Angua** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:56 pm UTC

So, you're choosing death by lynch then?

unvote (though I still have my eye on you PE)

vote ForAllOfThis

by **roband** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:00 pm UTC

Votals
FAOT 4 (BoomFrog, RoadieRich, Mav, Angua)
slbub 1 ( PhoenixEnigma)
Greenlover 1 (slbub)
Angua 1 (FAOT)

Despite the modkill, it's still 7 to lynch, as there are 12 players alive.

by **ForAllOfThis** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:03 pm UTC

More likely to survive a lynch than a bullet through my head, so I guess so. I have a feeling i know what my captives next move will be anyway, just to nail my coffin shut.

by **PhoenixEnigma** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:52 pm UTC

ForAllOfThis wrote:I'll help town when I'm not being held at gunpoint.

No, now would be a good time to try and be a hero, I think.

Given your position (between a rock and a hard place, it would appear), is there nothing else you could tell us? Any idea what form this nail might take? All town wins if one town wins, so if you're pretty much done for, it would be nice if you could, you know, make that death worth something.

There's some joke about hammer vote and nail in the coffin here, but I'm not about to make it

by **RoadieRich** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:05 am UTC

PhoenixEnigma wrote:There's some joke about hammer vote and nail in the coffin here, but I'm not about to make it

I think that's what he was on about.

by **ForAllOfThis** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:14 am UTC

Eugh. We should lynch me for the following reasons:

I'm part of dogs gang. I'm the only remaining member. Infina had a bunch of weird posts. I tried to lead a lynch on GL & Angua. I wouldn't tell you my alignment or role.

Unvote
Vote: ForAllOfThis

I'm now agreed with today's lynch

.

by **webby** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:38 am UTC

Just realised I haven't posted in a while here.

It seems like there's a clear lynch target who's either scum (I guess a D3 jester is possible, but probably scum given infina's play on D1 and 2). I suggest ignoring whatever he says.

I'm not going to cut off the day by voting for him yet though.

Since I posted my analysis post, FAOT has clearly gone scummy, while greenlover now looks independent, leaving Chandani as the only player I had as scummy at that stage. I guess on the next game day I'll have a look at RoadieRich, DBC and Angua.

by **mpolo** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:12 am UTC

While there is a possibility of jester-hood there, it is more likely an absolute requirement from his "squeezer", in my opinion. Which means that we can't be certain about the roleclaim that came out of it. We should probably let this lynch go through, IMO.

As there is that shadow of a specter of jesterdom, I'd be happier leaving FAOT as the last vote on himself.

by **DaBigCheez** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:16 am UTC

Or, it's meant to try to lend some credence to the claim of said "squeezer" :roll:

I'm fine with letting the lynch go through, since _infina_/FAOT have both been acting suspiciously and I don't really see any particularly great targets right now; suspecting *everyone* of being a jester is going to get me nowhere, and I already went through that in my head during PE's code shenanigans. Those two have stuck out most in my mind, though I admittedly haven't devoted as much time as I'd like to a careful re-read of the day's events.

I'm anticipating that the lynch on FAOT will probably go through. I do not wish to bring him to L-1, however. So, to record my current feelings for the voting record (despite the unlikelihood that it'll change the way the lynch rolls), I will

Vote: PhoenixEnigma

by **slbub** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:17 am UTC

Well the way it is looking is that GL isn't going to make the cut off. So that may lead to a mod-kill, I think? The same goes for Chandani, who has been quite a prominent lurker, more than they should be.

Anyway, FAot is just looking a little too eager to get killed off. (very similar to my own behavior in my first game, Inception mafia, a bumbling about and doing stupid things to lead to my death) i think that i will keep my distance, as for PE, their behavior has been jester-Esq, so i think that they are in a similar boat as FaoT but not nearly as bad. it is the scummy-ness of their actions and lurkey-ness to make me say,

unvote
vote:PheonixEnigma

...in particular, the cypher is still not sitting well with me and not voting either day one or two, too much lurking to be unnoticed.

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