xkcd

by **ConMan** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:41 am UTC

Some idiot pressed the Quote button rather than the Spoiler button. It should all be ok now.

*returns to being dead*

by **Vieto** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:09 am UTC

Yep, its fine again.

by **keeneal** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:19 am UTC

I voted early because I didn't get any scummy pings, and I was pretty sure that I could unvote. Simple enough. Sounds like the Mod just confirmed that for us, too.

because it can't hurt...
Inspect cabinet

This seems like a daypower to me, and probably not something that scum would willingly do to themselves. Locking someone in the TARDIS seems to be a pretty Doctor-like thing to do; he's done it before. I find it interesting that the Mod said "mafia supporter" and not something flavor-based.

by **Vieto** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:26 am UTC

keeneal wrote:Inspect cabinet

You give it a bit of a tap, and conclude that it is made of Fine Mahogany.

by **Gopher of Pern** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:18 am UTC

Weiyaoli, supporter recruit could also mean masons. Yes, it needs some explanation, but I wouldn't jump to scummy just yet.

I'm assuming only the Doctor would have the TARDIS as a power? Could someone else conceivably use the TARDIS this way?

i.e. how much can we trust this?

by **keeneal** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:44 am UTC

Staying in-canon, River Song, the Doctor-Donna, and maybe Rose all could fly the TARDIS. If my cop was paranoid, then it could also be the Master.

Since it's clearly labelled "cabinet" and not "phone box" or similar, and since it's clearly made of wood, I'm thinking it might be a fake TARDIS. Who might make a fake TARDIS?

by **keeneal** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:47 am UTC

EBOWP

Gopher of Pern wrote:Weiyaoli, supporter recruit could also mean masons. Yes, it needs some explanation, but I wouldn't jump to scummy just yet

I just noticed this. I don't understand... how does "mafia supporter" equal masons? Masons are like the anti-mafia, aren't they? Do you mean a cult, and that he might be a recent recruit?

That said, the fact that he "appears" to be a supporter is interesting.

by **Gopher of Pern** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:44 am UTC

weiyaoli wrote:I have an ability cop, which I used to cop greenlover today. He has a daily supporter recruit. Sounds cult like.

FoS: greenlover

Mind explaining?

This was the comment I was responding to with that comment. I was simply saying 'daily supporter recruit' could mean mason, not necessarily cult. This was before the FAOT thing, and not involving that in any way.

by **keeneal** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:58 am UTC

...I somehow completely missed that posting. That makes a lot more sense now, yeah. I agree - that could easily go towards cult or mason. Sorry for the confusion.

I agree - there's too much copping in this game. We know there's slight bastardry, and I'm starting to think that it lies in the cops - specifically their sanities. Speaking of which ... could the blue box thing just be Modly power exerting itself?

by **Angua** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:56 am UTC

I'm very confused by it. Also, by FaoT randomly being thrown inside of it - they didn't seem to post or do anything to the cabinet before they got shoved in (if anyone, I would have expected it to be me in there).

FaoT and greenlover both need to do some explaining. However, all the cop powers flying around means that it's very likely that a lot of people are getting false or incomplete information.

by **Angua** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:18 pm UTC

I was just looking through the first post in the thread with the player counts. Dark Loink is listed as 'removed from time'. When did that happen? I went back to the sign up thread, and they were the first to sign up. Now, we do have mpolo listed as a replacement player, so presumably they didn't drop out. However, dark loink hasn't made a post far as I can see.

Thoughts?

by **Mavketl** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:23 pm UTC

I replaced in for Dark Loink.

by **Angua** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:24 pm UTC

Ok - then I wonder why dark loink is being counted as removed from time (as opposed to just having a name change)

Why is dark loink listed as being removed from time?

by **Vieto** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:45 pm UTC

Angua wrote:Ok - then I wonder why dark loink is being counted as removed from time (as opposed to just having a name change)

Why is dark loink listed as being removed from time?

Even as of now, he still hasn't read his role pm.

by **weiyaoli** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:10 pm UTC

Gopher of Pern wrote:
weiyaoli wrote:I have an ability cop, which I used to cop greenlover today. He has a daily supporter recruit. Sounds cult like.

FoS: greenlover

Mind explaining?

This was the comment I was responding to with that comment. I was simply saying 'daily supporter recruit' could mean mason, not necessarily cult. This was before the FAOT thing, and not involving that in any way.

I realize this is the case, which is the reason that I firstly did not reveal his complete powers or vote for him.

by **ForAllOfThis** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:58 pm UTC

I'm town and haven't been informed at all about being a supporter of anyone. I'm going to go ahead and assume this is some sort of scum trap to get me lynched, mostly because being forced into the cabinet has taken away my vote (extremely anti-town) and roleblocked me. I'll go ahead and claim, especially as you have already had contact from me.

I'm Rose. I've sent a PM to the Mod to ask if I can use any of my post-edit abilities to confirm. I highly doubt that I will be able to. I could confirm by making the John Smith player public (they would be able to confirm). If everyone gives their opinion on this, I'll primarily use John Smiths decision to make mine, as they know more about their role and what they can do by staying hidden.

Unfortunately I've been working hard these past few days so didnt get time to use any of my actions today which is why there hasn't been an edited post with the rolecop result today. That's all the information I have at the moment. I'm pretty confused to be honest and I would like whoever is responsible for the cabinet to step forward to shed some light on the situation.

by **Mavketl** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:19 pm UTC

Why do you expect that you can't confirm that it's you by that fancy post-editing thing Rose did on D1? I think it'd be wise to await the mod's reply to that.

If that won't work, I think revealing John Smith would be alright? They were not a particularly powerful character, as far as I know. Unless we think there's a lyncher/killer for them. Lyncher wouldn't really matter since we wouldn't fall for that if we know John Smith identity.

As for the Gee Willikers TRAP theory... I reiterate my theory about paranoid/etc cops. This might not be malicious intent.

by **weiyaoli** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:27 pm UTC

Mavketl wrote:Why do you expect that you can't confirm that it's you by that fancy post-editing thing Rose did on D1? I think it'd be wise to await the mod's reply to that.

It stated that FAOT was roleblocked by the box.

by **Mavketl** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:34 pm UTC

Right. Good point.

I suggest we tentatively believe FAOT and give them a chance to prove their identity tomorrow? We know there's a Rose, anyway, and if nobody counterclaims I'm willing to believe FAOT's claim. Even without pointing at our John ~~Doe~~ Smith.

by **ForAllOfThis** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:51 pm UTC

Confirmation from the mod says I am completely roleblocked from all abilities.

If people are happy to wait until tomorrow I will be able to prove my role then.

My win condition remains that I win with town (got it mod confirmed) although couldn't get any information about being a mafia supporter from the mod, which got me thinking that the cabinet might be heavily tied into the time travel mechanic. More specifically, we could be looking at some sort of paradox where I have conflicting win conditions (although I still find it strange that I wasn't informed of being a mafia supporter). It fits with the flavour as well, we know the TARDIS is unable to handle paradoxes which could explain why I have been both roleblocked and lost my vote.

by **Chandani** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:51 am UTC

Maybe the mod was forced to edit and add a lie? I know mods can edit in general, but apparently Viete edited that post 3 times. Really weird.
It could be that Rose becomes a mafia supporter in the future... but I don't know how likely that is, either. We don't know how much time-travel is going on...
As for John Smith... maybe John Smith could turn into the Doctor? That seems a bit unlikely, but that's what happened canon-wise. Which would make John Smith very, very important.

by **keeneal** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:04 am UTC

I agree that revealing John Doe could be dangerous until we learn more about the role - it's potentially a fail-safe to bring the Doctor back... that is, after all, what the Chameleon Circuit is for. I'd rather give him the benefit of the doubt and wait for the edit-power proof.

Could the box be a perception filter? It's still not confirmed it's actually the TARDIS, after all.

by **keeneal** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:27 am UTC

ebwop John Smith***

by **Gopher of Pern** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:08 am UTC

I agree, there is no point in lynching FAOT, unless someone else claims Rose.

At this stage, i'm not sure who is acting scummiest. I do have the ping from keeneal about the quick vote, but its hardly enough evidence to put a vote on. Greenlover hasn't posted in awhile, and Angua hasn't really contributed anything recently either.

by **Angua** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:46 am UTC

Yeah - sorry about that, not posting in almost 20 hours is obviously unacceptable :roll:

Anyway, I was waiting until we had a response from FaoT - there wasn't really much else to speculate on until then (of course, I tried my best with the removed from time thing, however it was resolved quite quickly).

Anyway, now that we have a response from FaoT, I feel a bit better about them. I wish we knew how they ended up in the box - the most likely mechanism is someone doing it via PMs to the mod. It's hard to tell if it is the tardis or not - it certainly looks like it, but you would expect the tardis to be used for a time travel ability, rather than a role-block, vote-block, which seems anti-town (especially as FaoT has claimed to be Rose, though obviously we should always take these claims with a pinch of salt).

This has pinged me -

Mavketl wrote:
If that won't work, I think revealing John Smith would be alright? They were not a particularly powerful character, as far as I know. Unless we think there's a lyncher/killer for them. Lyncher wouldn't really matter since we wouldn't fall for that if we know John Smith identity.

Reasons - Mav has said that they are quite well versed in flavour, and Rose (in the edit) had already pointed out that revealing John Smith's identity could be bad, because it's the main pseudonym for the doctor, and it could be possible that the Doctor comes up as John Smith when copped (and in a game with lots of cops, having some ambiguity could be useful). John Smith (when their own character and not just the doctor pretending to be human) was basically the doctor with all his timelordiness stripped out of him, and it could only be returned by him opening the watch he'd trapped his timelordiness in. So, our most likely possibilities cannonwise are: 1) John Smith is in fact the doctor, and we don't want scum finding out who they are, or 2) if the doctor is killed, he gets a one shot respawn into John Smith (who then gets all the doctor's abilities). In either case, it would not be a good thing to identify John Smith. Mav is a pretty experienced player, and, as they said they know a lot about the who-verse, they should have had similar reservations about giving us the identity of John Smith.

by **Angua** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:47 am UTC

ebwop: Forgot to mention - we definitely need greenlover to give us some input after the recruit supporter cop thing.

by **Mavketl** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:38 am UTC

I know that John Smith is a pseudonym for the Doctor, but John Smith himself is a human with no special powers. It's not necessary to reveal his identity now (as I said in my latest post), since the Rose claim is uncontested... but if someone would counterclaim, I think it would be an acceptable risk.

by **Angua** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:39 am UTC

Is the John Smith being human from an Old doctor who? Because the only appearance of him in the new series was the one with the timelordiness taken out.

by **Mavketl** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:47 am UTC

Timelord - timelordiness = human, no? One heart, normal lifespan, no regeneration, iirc.

by **Angua** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:53 am UTC

Well, as already said, they did still have the potential to turn back into the doctor. Also, John Smith has been used before when the doctor needed a human name.

Anyway, I guess it could be possible that John Smith just a normal human. It just seems pretty unlikely to me, but I guess I could be wrong.

by **ForAllOfThis** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:47 pm UTC

Angua, I don't think scum would be sticking their neck on the line to learn the identity of John Smith since I've claimed, and GoP has provided us with a rolecop as well. They've got plenty of power-targets to go for tonight, so there would be very little payoff and too great a risk from pushing for John Smiths identity, without learning his powers.

by **Angua** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:56 pm UTC

I hadn't thought about the fact that they can just go after the other power roles. It just seemed to me that the best person scum should get rid of in order to win is the doctor, as he's the one who always wins on tv :wink:

by **keeneal** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:02 am UTC

Day ends in approx. 20 hours, right? What's everyone's feelings?

Personally, I'm looking at the people who are in favor of revealing who John Smith is. I'm also still back and forth on how likely it is that there's a mason group - I think that there are too many power roles for there to be a mason's group, so I'm leaning towards interpreting FAOT's thing as being a cult recruiter if it's real. It sounds like a perception filter to me. I'm willing to let him prove his role tomorrow, so I think I'm leaning towards the people who were in favor of outing John Smith - what's everyone else think?

by **Gopher of Pern** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:20 am UTC

keeneal, its greenlover who has the recruit ability. I've already pointed that out to you.

Whats happening to Greenlover?

GL hasn't posted in any of the games, so I doubt this lurkiness is a scum tell, but if nothing is going to be done, I would favour their lynch, simply because if there is a chance of them being a recruiting cult, I'd like to stop it.

My other thought is Mav. I agree with Angua that Mav's wanting John Smith revealed is kinda scummy.

by **keeneal** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:06 am UTC

Vieto wrote:
Angua wrote:What colour is it?

It is a Blue Cabinet. It also has the word "police" written on it. It has expert craftsmanship.

Also, ForAllOfThis has been forced into the cabinet, and locked in there. He is roleblocked and loses his vote. Also, peeking into the cabinet, he appears to be a mafia supporter.

I conflated their roles. I express concern over FOAT's role not being what the quoted message claims it to be because it could be a perception filter. I am uncomfortable with saying GL's recruit power is Mason-based because there are already a lot of power Townie roles, and a Mason group is too much.

I apologize for the mistake - I can only post late local time after a full day of classes, meetings, and pedagogical fieldwork, and am therefore often less-than-stellar at keeping peoples' names straight. My feelings about the individual elements of the statement remain the same.

by **Angua** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:32 am UTC

If greenlover hasn't responded for a while, I think we should hold off on lynching them until we know if they are going to be replaced, as we definitely have one replacement player left.

@keeneal, it is possible that greenlover only had a one shot recruit (GoP - do you know if it was that or otherwise?) which could help even out the score. It's hard to tell how balanced this game is with all the weird mechanics - as mentioned before we probably have paranoid/naive cops as well as normal ones, so a mason group could possibly work.

Also, I'm vaguely disappointed that no one has time travelled yet!

by **greenlover** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:49 pm UTC

Ah, I have been lurking. Sorry about that.

So, starting off. Yes, I have a daily mason-based recruit. However, I suspect that weiyaoli's cop didn't reveal the limitations placed on that? If you all think it's safe, I can reveal the limitations on it.

Mav's comments do seem a bit strange. I suspect that she might be the inverse of a lyncher (must dk JS instead of have him lynched)? Or perhaps just scum trying to figure out who's powerful and who isn't? Though, considering this is Mav, I wouldn't put it passed her to be laying the way for her own John Smith claim, be her scum or town.

FAOT does seem pretty suspicious. Has anyone seen an edited counterclaim from the real Rose? If not, I don't think we have any choice but to believe FAOT's rose claim. Is there any at all justification in the flavor for Rose being a mafia supporter? If not, I think it will be safe to assume that the public cop/roleblock is probably either of mafia origin, or insane.

Also, I might require a replacement in the near future, as I am unsure if I can do justice to my games and still keep up with my obligations.

*wanders away muttering about due process and discovery of facts*

by **Mavketl** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:56 pm UTC

greenlover wrote:So, starting off. Yes, I have a daily mason-based recruit. However, I suspect that weiyaoli's cop didn't reveal the limitations placed on that? If you all think it's safe, I can reveal the limitations on it.

I think this is a case of "you know best". If there are things that you can safely disclose, that might be useful.

by **keeneal** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:30 pm UTC

Mavketl wrote:
greenlover wrote:So, starting off. Yes, I have a daily mason-based recruit. However, I suspect that weiyaoli's cop didn't reveal the limitations placed on that? If you all think it's safe, I can reveal the limitations on it.
I think this is a case of "you know best". If there are things that you can safely disclose, that might be useful.

Exactly this.

by **ForAllOfThis** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:27 am UTC

The problem with the recruit ability is that it doesn't really tell us anything. I wouldn't put it past the doctor to have a recruit ability (with the way he recruits companions) or similarly a villain. The silence had a sort of recruit, in that they controlled everything (because no-one could remember them) and enemies like the cybermen fit the role equally perfect.

Although I'm not sure I like GL throwing mud in my direction, especially the bit about checking for past edited posts as those could be faked if a role had a similar power. Right now, I have a bad feeling about GL but I'd rather not force out a Mason claim right now, until we get more information. Everyone else has good content so I'm struggling to get a read on them. Anyone else got any opinions?

EDIT: I am Rose. I must mention BadWolf. This is proof.

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