xkcd

by **fearless** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:30 pm UTC

Turning the FOS into a vote would be too blatantly obvious, even for you. No, what you did was you latched onto the first thing that you didn't like (just like last time) without further contemplation.

As a townie I say things that are factual and true. I don't go around thinking how people might misinterpret my truthfulness (although from now on I probably should exercise that caution because of players like you). If I were scum I would be far more careful as to what I say because what I say would be tainted with elements of trickery.

by **trineroks** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:57 pm UTC

Everyone's gotta start at some point.

As of now though, I'm starting to believe you're town, so I'm dropping my FoS.

by **t1mm01994** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:24 pm UTC

So, I re-read the flavour. Why should you be interested? Because there's strange stuff going on there.
For one, how did Brook not see this coming? *BaDumTss*
But seriously. In the intro we had pamphlets thrown out by an unknown figure, and Lataro turned up stonified with his pockets filled with pamphlets, as a recruiter, which is the kind of person you'd expect to wear pamphlets.
Then, in the intro someone shoots a crossbow at our toadmod. Linking this to the game, this might very well be the factional kill. But that's where the strangeness kicks in, as last 2 deaths were caused by vote (eaten) and Lataro was turned to stone. No crossbow to be seen... So if there's any kind of doc or roleBLOCK (mind you, not redirect), don't claim yet but keep this in mind.

@fearless, usually all night-actions take place at the same time. If you want to be sure, ask the mod, but I'd say Yes, there is one cultee, and Yes, we need to kill it to win. Good thing is that we killed the recruiter and I doubt there's more than 1 recruiter in a game this small, so, just one to hit. Basically there's someone turned into a Survivor now. If you see someone not attacking much, focusing on not getting lynched, that may be a good person to lynch.

For now, I'll extend my lurker vote.
Vote: Greenlover

by **TheMaskedGecko** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:11 pm UTC

Right, @experienced people: is it standard practice for a mod to count culting before they count kills?

Obviously we have some kind of vig/SK as well as a possible mafia NK to deal with. Let's suppose there's one kill for now, for reasons discussed below. Educated guess- trine is the Medusa-esque SK because: both flavour and the feeling that two kills at the very start would be overpowered imply that it is one of us new recruits; eculc didn't respond to PMs; and I know it's not me. Besides that, there is one other explanation: there was one indie killer from the start and the mod just felt like mixing up the flavour a bit.

Lack of mafiakill is interesting. Options are that a doc/RB struck lucky, kill was withheld for some crazy reason or it alternates with the recruit mechanic. Currently the second makes most sense. Kill+recruit seems overpowered to me, although it depends how the rest of the game is balanced.

by **TheMaskedGecko** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:15 pm UTC

Ebwop: just checked and my role PM suggests that there is more than one scum team, which would kinda make sense. For that reason:

Vote: trinerocks

by **t1mm01994** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:23 pm UTC

Why does the 2nd make more sense to you? I could not see a possible gain from withholding at this time of game...

by **trineroks** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:32 am UTC

TheMaskedGecko wrote:Ebwop: just checked and my role PM suggests that there is more than one scum team, which would kinda make sense. For that reason:

Vote: trinerocks

Your role PM clearly states there is more than just Asmodeus and Mepth-whatever? That's actually pretty interesting. IA question though; is there a role list anywhere here? I feel left in the dark not knowing what roles there are.

And you're accusing me on the grounds that there could possibly be a second scum team? That's a pretty baseless accusation if you ask me.

by **eculc** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:54 pm UTC

Alright, now that I actually have time to collect my thoughts, starting from D1:

Fearless makes a proclamation of townie, and asks a question regarding the example PM. I can hardly consider this scummy, considering that AFAIK Asmodeus' faction = town. I'm not really sure where t1mm's following (apparent) suspicion comes from, for the same reasons as above. I suppose the WIFOM is always a possibility, but that seems a VERY risky move for someone to take.

some generic rules discussion on the "feeder game" specifics. nothing interesting here.

Fearless makes another statement about her role PM being similar to the example. nothing interesting here, either. but the suspicion here is again raised due to the almost-quoting of the example PM. fearless then points out some more WIFOM in her next post. I still don't think that it's much of anything, but it's something to consider.

t1mm votes trine for misinterpreting his post as suspicion. TBH, I can see how his words seem to be (slightly) suspecting fearless as well. this feels like a shoddy piece of cover.

Lataro: votes TSS for lurking. This is interesting, seeing as lataro turned scum and TSS turned cop. if it's a power specific to him, we won't have to worry about it anymore, considering he's dead.

Trine brings up the roleclaim in fearless' first post. I can see how it could be seen as a move by scum, but still...VERY risky move, if that's what it is.

t1mm: votes GL for lurking. I'm not sure that we should be voting for lurkers right now; although they're not helping, they're also not trying to thinly disguise their votes as townie actions.

N1: NK on lataro. It doesn't appear that anyone was going after him, but he was scum (or at least not town) so I have a neutral opinion on this now. maybe a lucky vig hit?

TSS turns out to be a powercop. already town't lost one of their power roles, so...that's not good.

D2: trine has some discussion on flavor. I'm not sure I'd hold flavor as too important, but it might be in the future.

TMG talks about lack of a mafiakill. I'd agree with his assesment, to an extent. I (personally) think that a doc might've gotten lucky, but with all the crazy mechanics of this game so far I'm not sure.

TMG says that his role PM involves (or at least mentions) multiple scum teams, then uses it as justification to accuse trine. this also seems like a pretty shoddy cover for something else, but there's not much way to tell yet.

now, I'd like to bring something to everyone's attention:

BoomFrog wrote:Players currently in Hell:
3. greenlover - Died in Firefly of a fatal not being alive anymore.
4. fearless - Died in Hogwarts of shame and confusion.
8. t1mm01994 - Died in Hogwarts of a fatal tattle-taling incident.
~~9. SecondShadow - Died in Hogwarts of not being around anymore.~~ - Lynched D1
10. Lataro - Died in Hogwarts of starvation after being sent home from school without dinner.
7. trineroks - Died in Zombie Apocalypse of a lethal dose of not surviving.
5. eculc - Died in Zombie Apocalypse of cold-blooded murder.
1. TheMaskedGecko - Died in Zombie Apocalypse of acute lead poisoning.

specifically, notice that lataro isn't marked down as killed N1, even though he was. if you check, the edit to the post was made shortly after D2 began. I have a hard time believing that wasn't intentional, and therefore although lataro was turned to stone, he might not be "removed" from the game like TSS was.

by **TheMaskedGecko** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:27 pm UTC

t1mm01994 wrote:Why does the 2nd make more sense to you? I could not see a possible gain from withholding at this time of game...

I meant third. It was at the end of a long post. I messed up.

Re; my vote; My role victory condition is kill all opposing factions (Edit: it's also in the example PM on page 1. I'd forgotten about that until I saw eculc mention it). Having already logically decided that trine has a kill, this convinced me that he wasn't pro-town, rather of a different scum faction or an SK. I admit this isn't a watertight theory but I feel there's enough there to support a vote, especially considering that we are in danger of having multiple D1's if we don't act decisively.

@eculc: Good catch that. Is it possible that Lataro can still recruit? This would make sense from a not-ending-the-game-before-everyone-turns-up perspective. Not sure what else would make sense.

by **trineroks** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:53 pm UTC

You logical deduction is bogus. You have no other evidence that I could've killed Lataro other than a slight suspicion.

Your pushing for a random lynch seems strange. We can't really afford a mislynch today. Why? Here's my reasoning.
We do a random lynch and accidentally hit town. There are 8 players, and two have already died, leaving us with 6.
Now, assuming there were two maf, and one died on N1, there should be another maf around. But who's to say that Lataro's cult conversion DIDN'T go through? What if it did? We could be left with 2 scum and a potential SK-esque role. Scum can convert, SK could kill, and that would leave us with 5, possibly with 3 scum, 1 sk, 1 town, or 2 scum, 1 sk, 2 town.

Now, my reasoning above is based on the players we have now. We currently have 3 players who haven't even joined the game yet:

6. Woopate
2. Adam H
11. Mpolo

What if the third party role is assigned to one of them? What if one of them becomes another scum?

I have a lot more questions that I would like answered:
Are there a list of roles for this Mafia game?
Could any of those three people who are still alive (not in the game yet) become scum?
Does the Mafia get a NK, or are they merely a cult role?

by **trineroks** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:55 pm UTC

EBWOP: And as for eculc, that is indeed a good catch, although I believe it could be oversight on BoomFrog's part. He did say this:

"Lataro is dead, he was an incubus, loyal to Mephistopheles. He was a cult recruiter."

So I'm assuming Lataro died, for now (unless there is some crazy role that can make you fake-dead). Again, this mess would be a lot more clear if only there were a role list for this game.

by **BoomFrog** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:27 am UTC

trineroks wrote:Are there a list of roles for this Mafia game?
Could any of those three people who are still alive (not in the game yet) become scum?
Does the Mafia get a NK, or are they merely a cult role?

1) There is not a list of roles, this is a (mostly) closed set-up. There is a sample town role so that scum have an idea what they look like, all other role information is secret.
2) Yes, of course, they may or may not have scum roles just like any player.
3) No comment

FYI, Lataro is dead and out of the game, not crossing his name off was an oversight.

by **eculc** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:06 pm UTC

Alright, my mistake. what with the "turned to stone" and all, I thought it might be intentional that he wasn't "dead-and-gone" dead.

by **greenlover** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:51 pm UTC

Currently, I'm getting pings from TMG primarily, mostly because his justification for Trine having a kill makes little sense to me, so my first instinct is that he's just trying to get somebody other than himself lynched. Plus, it relies on something that we cannot confirm (ie, him being town), so its not even really applicable until he dies.

Given how small the game is, I'm skeptical that we'd have both a mafia and a cult. Perhaps the cult started with two members - a killer and a recruiter? Unlikely, but having the mafia and the cult being two different factions would have left things pretty bleak for town. Also, is it possible that the flavor is just flavor for the most part? The way I've played in the past was to only pay attention to the bold, given that that's typically what's relevant to the game.

by **trineroks** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:14 am UTC

Could it be possible that the Mafia team isn't actually Mephistopheles? I read the story again and it says:

"Join us now at the ground floor in our new start-up organization and enjoy many stock options and early adapter benefits."

What if Mephistopheles is the third party and the Mafia actually did get a night kill on a cult recruiter? The story seems to suggest that Meph is a cult faction (The "Join us now" part). I'm thinking that the Mafia MIGHT be hidden..

by **BoomFrog** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:39 am UTC

Woopate has entered the eternal line of the damned. One soul is waiting. The day will end when the last two souls are ready.

by **Woopate** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:50 am UTC

Alright I'll take a look over everything and post more in depth. Till then I'm just greeting the hordes of the dead.

Hi.

by **Woopate** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:06 am UTC

Alright. So the idea presented above this post seems pretty compelling. That Mephistopheles are a cult faction and that the mafia faction has yet to be revealed. The example role post does imply that there are more than town/mafia, OR that mafia has a success condition other than kill all townies, or both. I'm more inclined to believe there is a third faction, given that if mafia has an objective other than kill everyone, and there's only two factions, everybody alive at the end walks home with at least a half win.

Flavorspec: mephistopheles comes to collect souls of those already damned. This could mean nothing, since we're all damned, or maybe mephistopheles can only cult the theoretical third faction?

Asmodeus, being the king of hell, makes for a believable townie faction.

by **fearless** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:50 pm UTC

Sorry for the inactivity - work's been hectic and I haven't been feeling well. I'm just going to come out and admit I don't know what's going on in this game. Tim's a crafty player and IF he's scum then he should know by default that my non-intentional role-claim was true, so this could all be a ploy to get me to think he's town. On the other hand, he's smart enough to tell that my claim is more likely to be true than not, so this could just be Tim being genuinely pro-town. Still, I'm keeping my paranoid hat on.

Going for the lurkers is not a bad idea so Tim gets a few extra redeeming points for that. Mister gecko's vote for Trine is a bit too sudden for my liking. He normally gives an in-depth analysis on everyone before voting but this time he only cited his role PM, rather cryptically too I might add. Probably has info that we don't. Probably not scum, but not town either.

Eculc's suggestion that Lataro's ability still carries on is a bit ridonculous. A recruiter who keeps on recruiter after being NK'd? Granted, the mod didn't scratch out Lataro's name, but really. Feels like he's trying to use it as a red herring and distract us from what's really going on.

Woodpate and green haven't said enough for me to form an opinion.

by **t1mm01994** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:02 pm UTC

I'm seen as crafty.. I'm honoured. eculc, why did you think my post regarding fearless' claim expressed suspicion? I'm having my reservations, but I generally think it's a town thing to do..
Greenlover: If the flavour is just flavour, why did the pamphlets show up afterwards, as a cult? I think we can then safely assume the crossbow is real, as well...

by **greenlover** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:23 pm UTC

t1mm01994 wrote:Greenlover: If the flavour is just flavour, why did the pamphlets show up afterwards, as a cult? I think we can then safely assume the crossbow is real, as well...

First, do you really think that a incubus would recruit with pamphlets?

Second, how does that work in regards to balance? After all, you're proposing that there is a mafia, a SK, and a cult all in the same game. That's 4 anti-town in a 11 player game. Assuming for a second that last night went poorly for town - two kills on town, and the cult hit town. That would have placed us as 3:2:2:1, which is basically a guaranteed loss for town. Town has basically lost by D2? I doubt it.

by **fearless** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:34 pm UTC

Green talks a lot of sense. I also don't believe in the whole pamphlet thing. then again, I'm not sure what exactly "flavours" are. All these jargon - so confusing. Also, what the heck is "meta"????

by **t1mm01994** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:37 pm UTC

flavour: The text in italics that the mod pots.
meta: The way someone plays in all games together, or the way all games together go. Example: The meta is that D1's are boring, my meta is pretty agressive, risky stuff (or so I like to present myself), gl's meta is lurky... I think you've got the point.

by **TheMaskedGecko** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:02 pm UTC

...and my meta is to analyse posts. The reason I haven't done that straight off was a lack of content, especially from those of us for who this is D1. There's probably enough to justify it now though.

greenlover: Mentions cult in first post, calls it overpowered but also questions whether it is possible.Pinged by my vote, still doubts likelihood of two scum factions. Suggests mafia with recruit+kill, forgetting that this would mean that one killed the other; a case of overzealous busing? or an perhaps unfortunate typo accident ? Claims that the two scum factions theory requires four anti-town players. Where did that SK come from? Mostly talks sense with some odd slips-NEUTRAL

fearless: First post vanilla claim is odd. Inadvertent roleclaim suggests that this was a clumsy (sorry) attempt to hide her true role. Of course this idea came from tim. Two possibilities at this point: fearless is an town-indie imp, or she is scum who made a real mess at the start of the day and was saved by her scumbuddy, who has to be tim. Calls me out for lazy post. Also has been gently attacking tim since night. :puts on tin-foil hat: Maybe tim asked her to distance herself from him through night chat. Very confused-IGMEOY

t1mm01994: Calls scum numbers at 1. Lowness is suspicious. Protects fearless, which is discussed above. Votes GL, based on lurkiness. A safe vote. I'm assuming the rock incident is just flavour, with no inference of a redirected kill. Is the one to bring up the idea of flavour implying a mafiakill. Strong player, whichever team he's on- IGMEOY

trineroks: Suspicious of fearless. Calls tim out on his assumption of towniness on her. I'm actually inclined to agree with trine here. Then stops being suspicious, possibly because it looked like he was coming on too strong. Defense against my vote is reasonable enough. EDGING TOWN

eculc: Cleared of being the killer, by dint of not replying to PMs. Notices lack of change in modpost (red herring). Little else of note. NEUTRAL-TOWN

First, re: my original trine vote. I pushed that a little stronger than the logic allowed. Also, he doesn't seem scummy atm

Unvote

Vote:tim

I'm far from confident of this, but I don't feel happy leaving the only vote in the control of someone I feel is likely to be scum.

One thing for future reference
CONFIRMED POWERS:
Redirect+SurvivorFearless (maybe)
~~Cop~~ Brook
KillerAnyone
~~Recruiter~~ Lataro

Also there has been a lack of reading in this game. Our example PM hints at two scum factions, as well as confirming that AAA is town. There was no special info in my PM that I decided to share.

by **Woopate** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:56 pm UTC

Sorry, been busy dealing with my minecraft server going to 1.2. Content to come today some time.

by **t1mm01994** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:19 pm UTC

As the main reason for that vote on me seems to be my vote and greenlover, which was a lurker vote and he stopped lurking, I'll
Unvote.
TMG, there are some holes in your logic there. Let's say fearless and I are both scum, and Lataro was a cult recruiter.. That would make things... Not too blossommy for town. 2/1/2 day one means that very probably a townie will die and a townie will get recruited, which means that next day it will be 2/2/3 with not much better prospects. I think BF can balance better than that.
I really think the claim was true, as there has been no counterclaim and it's a risky thing to claim if you're scum and it just might be given out to someone. You did make me laugh though @ overzealous bussing, so you're not getting an OMGUS vote from me. In fact, I think most of your analyses are quite decent, I just don't see why I got a vote there... So uhm.. If someone would mind voting, and not on me, I'd be very happy.

by **TheMaskedGecko** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:59 am UTC

unvote

(although this is a dangerous precedent. I was hoping we'd get others voting, not take us down to a no lynch.)
I'll try again later.

by **t1mm01994** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:53 am UTC

Vote: eculc

by **greenlover** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:39 pm UTC

Vote: tim

Until I see some justification for that vote. I should be online tonight to remove it, so long as day doesn't end (and it doesn't look like it will...?).

by **trineroks** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:12 pm UTC

t1mm01994 wrote:Vote: eculc

This is a rather sudden vote and, on top of that, tim offers to explanation as to why he voted eculc. I'll give him time to explain this before I place a pressure vote on him.

by **trineroks** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:12 pm UTC

EBWOP: tim offers no* explanation.

by **eculc** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:57 pm UTC

shall I assume that this is a lurkvote? if so, I'll inform everyone now that I'll be mostly unavailable until this weekend. I'll have some time, but probably not enough for any serious analysis. if not, I'm as willing to hear the reason behind your vote as anyone else. in the meantime,

Vote: T1mm01994

by **t1mm01994** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:58 pm UTC

*yawn* nothing is happening... Ah well, Greenlover's reaction sounds a lot like "Hey, I'll see if I can start a bandwagon here, if so I'll get it, if not I'm stopping it" which is usually a scumtell.
Unvote
Vote: Greenlover
And some activity would be nice. No one does /anything/ now.

by **BoomFrog** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:43 am UTC

Due to the unexpected delays at Hogwarts AdamH and mpolo failed to attend their defense against the dark arts classes and have accidentally sold their souls to devils.

mpolo and Adam H will enter the line of the damned immediately. Since this was unforeseeable for all players nightfall will be delayed for two days. Deadline is 48 hours from this post.

Vtotals:
t1mm - 2 (greenlover, eculc)
Greenlover - 1 (t1mm)

Those not voting: fearless, trineroks, TMG

by **trineroks** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:03 am UTC

I see where tim is coming from.

I would've preferred that green ask the reason behind tim's vote instead of vote him straight up. Tim's "vote" looked more like a reaction test than an actual vote and I can see how it would look like green is trying to start a train on him.

Man, the day sequences are sooo long.

by **Adam H** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:20 am UTC

Greetings fellow damned! I've been watching you... :wink:

T1mm and trine are obviously scum. You guys are blind if you cant see it.

by **trineroks** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:23 am UTC

Adam H wrote:Greetings fellow damned! I've been watching you...

T1mm and trine are obviously scum. You guys are blind if you cant see it.

ADAM!

Your Zombie Apocalypse forum mafia (the story) left me quite depressed.

by **greenlover** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:43 am UTC

::sigh::. either tim and trine have private chat, or trine is doing a fascinating impression of a echo.

Also, the reason why I voted for Tim instead of simply asking is cause you can't just ignore a vote, and Tim could have quite easily ignored me all day long, leaving that vote on until day over. Now, why didn't I just ask and then vote, you ask? Well, obviously, Tim wasn't keen on giving an explanation in the first place, given that he didn't actually provide one in the original post. So, skipping right to the voting was a method of saving time. I don't really see how it was a bandwagoning measure...? If you guys could explain that, that would be great.

Oh, and also,

Unvote

given that the strange vote has now been removed.

by **trineroks** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:58 am UTC

green, I never directly accused you. I said that I could see how it COULD be an attempt to bandwagon tim.

Actually, looking back and seeing how tim was always pushing for the lurker vote (and nitpicking green for the pressure vote), I might have to go with him for today. I'm getting pings from his rather odd posts and night kill speculation as well.

vote t1mm

by **t1mm01994** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:56 am UTC

You know how I don't like games in which nothing happens, right? You also can see that in this game nothing happened? Great. Me pushing lurker lynches, voting people without explanation and then switching to an ill-advised vote is me trying to GET SOMETHING DONE. I can't work without information, so if noone else provides information, I will find a way to create information. If that gets me lynched in the end, it's all good, but before the end, I'd rather not get lynched yet, as there is really very little information yet.

Unvote
as the defense GL is giving seems legit, and Adam has come in, so /something/ is bound to happen...

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