Mafia Avengers - Game Over - Skrull Supremacy!

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ahammel
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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby ahammel » Sun May 13, 2012 11:05 pm UTC

My follow result states that wam killed Woopate. There's no "I was only roleblocking him" defence.
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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby Snark » Mon May 14, 2012 1:00 am UTC

Ok Tim. Out with it. Were you mafia before (I'm sure you were) and who were your scum-mates?

If Tim says wam, we've got ourselves an easy lynch ahead of us.

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You're a watcher that sees what action was used in addition to the person using the action? Never heard of that before. Suspicious.
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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby CaptainFinglass » Mon May 14, 2012 1:58 am UTC

@ahammel - Nice and tidy, having a claim that can't be defended by someone.
Just saying.

I agree with greenlover - let's here from wam and T1mm before we lynch. I currently have no actual problems lynching wam, but I would like to hear his defense first.
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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby matt96 » Mon May 14, 2012 2:12 am UTC

Vote: wam
I am not so sure about the claim, but the Unvoting JSO then re-voting only after having seen that he could not redirect the lynch is something I find highly scummy.


Also, I am pretty sure t1mm had been mafia, but for balance purposes I don't think t1mm would be allowed to reveal who all of the mafia are.

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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby Servant-of_Christ » Mon May 14, 2012 2:20 am UTC

I want to hear from mpolo. Do you have a blocking/stealth ability, orwas I role blocked?

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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby ahammel » Mon May 14, 2012 3:02 am UTC

@Snark: suspicious or not, there's an easy way to figure out if I'm lying. It involves a rope and a tree.

@Finglass: it can be defended against by a counterclaim. Anybody can pipe up and say "ahammel is lying because I roleblocked him last night" or "I watched wam, and ahammel didn't visit him" or what have you. It would really be a hideously risky falseclaim for scum to make, except as part of a winning push. I think we can agree that scum haven't almost won here.
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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby mpolo » Mon May 14, 2012 6:16 am UTC

I'm not sure how much I can say without losing my vote, but it is passively my fault that I was not followed. I got a notification that someone had tried to follow me, but that I had eluded him [which is kind of funny for the fact that I was at home]. T1mm also hinted at something that actually relates to my powers (though he interpreted it differently) earlier, leading me to believe that he was indeed mafia at the beginning of the game.

As a result: please don't push the wam wagon faster than it needs to go -- we do want to hear from T1mm still. Once we have that information, "follow the follower" would seem to be the best move at the moment.
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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby roband » Mon May 14, 2012 8:35 am UTC

Good job that guy who wanted to perform the hammer-vote did such a good job, eh?

I wanna wait and hear what Tim-lad has to say for himself.
wam, although a decent target for a lynch, may be either eclipsed or confirmed by Tim's revelations.

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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby t1mm01994 » Mon May 14, 2012 9:30 am UTC

PC screen has arrived, and interestingness will follow.
Firstly off, I cannot confirm much about my past. I've been involved in chatter in an anti-town faction, and I'm fairly sure traitors are in that faction.
I can also confirm that my claim was right, apart from the fact where I claimed town, I was a survivor instead, traitor myself.
However, I'm quite positively sure that the faction I left is not the only faction, and what's more, that the other faction is more dangerous.

To get this straight, too, I'm now completely town. Mod and roband should be able to confirm that I'm completely loose from my old faction, and I am not trying to help them win, as that would make me lose.

I'm just saying: Killing one of that scumteam might be deadly for us, I think we'll need it later.
Sadly, I can't go into specifics. As for what I can say, I've got the feeling something's the matter at Snark's.

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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby roband » Mon May 14, 2012 9:32 am UTC

I can confirm that, to the best of my knowledge, Tim is now completely town.

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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby roband » Mon May 14, 2012 9:34 am UTC

Or rather, he was before the night started.

If there are any cults around, it would have been real interesting if they chose to recruit him...

I don't expect to survive very long here, so I ask that you allow me to hammer as many lynches as possible. If we're lynching town, they live. If we're lynching scum, they turn to town and live. We can't lose, while I'm alive.

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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby t1mm01994 » Mon May 14, 2012 9:40 am UTC

Erm. So yeah, I'm speeching against my believablity here. I believe there is a cult active, yes.

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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby wam » Mon May 14, 2012 9:53 am UTC

ahammel

No I didn't kill woopate, however, I did get the following message last night.

A faction tried to recruit you last night, as you are unrecruitable they failed.

Now this linked with ahammels previous comments about his role and zombies.

Spoiler:
Post 1
So I went through yesterday trying to figure out what DBC did to get day killed. It looks like pretty much nothing: all head was some role spec and the FAOT vote, which means that the day kill is not in town hands. It's probably an SK or, less likely, mafia (I say less likely because a mafia day kill seems overpowered and DBC wasn't an especially inviting mafia target).

I'm not sure if it's best play to reveal this: but I can confirm that there are no more zombies

Post 2
I can only say in my defense that I'm not the cult leader and this would be terrible cult leader play. If any more zombies turn up, you should definitely lynch me. I'd prefer not to make a full claim, as I feel it's in town's interests to keep scum as much in the dark as possible about town powers, but I'll do it if a consensus arises that I should. For now I'll just say zombie time is over and leave it at that.


Makes me think he is in the cult/zombies now (if he hasn't been all along), they tried to recruit me failed so are going to push a lynch as any not recruitable players are a big issue for them.

Also I think ahammel is not the leader as they are willing to sacrifice him to get rid of me.

On a side note my other power was a one shot day kill. I used this on DBC on day 1 as I thought he was a cult leader. I was clearly right!

I am not going to role claim as based on what tim and others have been posting I don't want to lose my vote as it could be important.
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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby Angua » Mon May 14, 2012 10:17 am UTC

First off - I feel this might be a frustrating game for tim now given that they seem not be able to say much.

Second - roband - your power only works on odd days, correct? (You asking to lynch as much as possible made me wonder if I was misremembering).

At wam - that seems like a pretty risky play for the cult. Given that a cult leader died on day one, they'd probably try to keep their heads down and hope no one notices them until they gain enough numbers. What made you think that DBC was a cult leader on day one?
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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby Angua » Mon May 14, 2012 10:18 am UTC

Oh, I'll also be less active for the next 2 weeks, as I have finals so am limiting the amount of time wasted on the forums. I'll stay in this game though, just probably won't remember about it as much.
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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby wam » Mon May 14, 2012 10:26 am UTC

Thats a good question, it was 3 weeks ago.

From my very rough memory it was this post that made me suspicous.

Spoiler:
Rolespec time!

So, I don't have a ton of knowledge about all the Marvel characters (I know about 3/4 of the ones in this game off-hand), but a quick look at some wikis can help make up for that. It looks like the roles list has actually changed since I was looking at it last night - did anyone else notice this, or is my memory just on the fritz? (To be specific, the replacement of Spiderman with Deadpool, the addition of the Skrull Captain, and I could swear Ms. Marvel wasn't on there between Wolverine and Spiderman Deadpool before. And a curious thing is, with the Skrull Captain added to the list, we're at 21 roles for 20 players - ahroo?)

For a hopefully obvious reason, I'm only going to be rolespeccing on the scumroles - there's going to be a lot of uncertainty with the multiple role options, but hopefully it should give us some clues what we might have to contend with. I'm only passingly familiar with most of their motivations, though, so I don't know how much sense it makes for various scum to be working together. I know Red Skull, Dr. Doom, MODOK and Ultron have each headed their own organizations; I'm less certain about Loki, Norman Osborn (Green Goblin) and the Skrull Captain. I *think* they prefer to work alone, but I'm not certain, and that probably doesn't have a lot of relevance here anyway.

I agree with previous posters that the list seems to be ordered town-to-scum (barring some kind of anti-backwards mod-fakeout in that regard). Just thinking of possible layouts, I think a 14/6 (14/7?!) or 14/5/1 (14/6/1?!) setup is most likely - most of the scum have no real reason to trust each other, so any mafia formed out of them would kind of ignore interpersonal associations anyway. For game-balance reasons, I think a two-opposing-mafias setup is unlikely with this number of scum roles. However, I think the odds of a serial killer are pretty high - probably MODOK or Ultron, which seem like the most genocidal villains of the lot. Both of them have mind control powers, so it's also possible that they could be a cult leader instead (or it could be a 14/4/1/1 (14/5/1/1?!) setup with one as SK and one as cult, but that seems kinda skewed balance-wise).

My best guesses as to scum powers (spoilered for length):
Spoiler:
-Red Skull: Un-powered, super-soldierdom notwithstanding, so a probable candidate for some kind of rolecop/watcher/tracker role (possibly through his network of minions). Aside from Green Goblin, he's the one I have the fewest guesses about.

-Loki: A trickster god, so he'll probably have abilities meant to mess with us. In particular, I'm guessing he might have had, among his choices, a Redirect power (seems trickstery enough), being a Godfather through illusions, or possibly being an Evidence Planter (making others into millers - might be a little weak compared to his others, this could be a regular Roleblock or something but that seems a bit straightforward for him. Maybe instead of an Evidence Planter, can check for cop results on his target and change them to what he wants?). Possible Voterigger?

-Norman Osborn/Green Goblin: The other one I don't really have many ideas about. Arsonist, maybe, but that'd seem a bit OP as a scum role. Extremely fast healing rate makes me think possible ability to survive a lynch/kill (possibly needing to be killed twice in one day/night cycle, if we have a vig). Possibly able to Watch people from his flying disk. Possible Inventor.

-Dr. Doom: Very much a cunning manipulator from behind the scenes, and tends to send out Doombots to do his dirty work. I'm thinking possibilities are Godfather, one-shot kill immunity (since it hits a Doombot instead), and an Inventor. Possible voterigger?

-MODOK: Listed as very fragile, so probably no lynch/kill-immunities, but can create force fields - possible scumdoc or roleblocker? Ability to "probe the minds of others" implies possible rolecop. Near-precog-level calculation powers...I'm not really sure what that would translate into in-game. WARNING: POSSESSES MIND CONTROL POWERS!

-Ultron: Keeps rebuilding himself after being destroyed, so possible one-shot rez or similar. Sleep ray might act as a roleblock, but "implanting hypnotic suggestions to be carried out later" implies something more dangerous - forced votes, or the ability to control their actions a later night? Roboticist able to make robot clones and transport his consciousness into them - possibly watcher-immune due to not being tracable back to the source, or possible inventor? WARNING: POSSESSES MIND CONTROL POWERS!

-Skrull Captain: Able to shapeshift, so almost certainly able to defeat cop results. Invisibility, so he might be able to Jailkeeper himself or something similar, hiding for the night but not acting while he does (or possibly just full night-action immunity if he doesn't have any other powers). Force-fields and a paralyzation beam point to possible Roleblocking. Still confused about his late addition - has worked under Dr. Doom before, possibly related to a Doom power? WARNING: POSSESSES MIND CONTROL POWERS!


TL;DR: with three separate scum with mind-control powers listed in their portfolios, I think the odds of cult and/or vote-forcing are pretty high. There's also a couple (most notably Loki) that I think could muck with cop results - that's not a reason to disregard cop results without further corroboration, just be aware of the possibility. I think Loki should be our first priority to hunt down if we have the chance, just because trickster god powers seem apt to sow a *lot* of confusion. (No, I'm not seriously expecting us to be able to pick and choose which scum to lynch, but it would certainly be nice.)


Where he talked about all of these possible recruiting roles and then said we should go after LOKI rather than cult hunting. Whereas I have always been under the impression that you should always try and find the cult first.
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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby roband » Mon May 14, 2012 10:32 am UTC

Angua wrote:Second - roband - your power only works on odd days, correct? (You asking to lynch as much as possible made me wonder if I was misremembering).

Oh yeah, that. I lied. I was trying to make myself look non-threatening to scum, on D2. I'm still surprised I'm not dead yet.

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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby Snark » Mon May 14, 2012 1:30 pm UTC

Well if there's an anti-town day kill floating around, I expect roband is gonna die pretty soon. If not, I highly suggest we let him hammer every day he's alive.

Obviously one of wam and ahammel are lying. ahammel is off for being such a thorough watcher. wam is off for claiming the one thing that we would suspect ahammel of.

Although we don't get told their alignment if roband hammers, they can confirm for us tomorrow (assuming some doctors are in play) whether they were lying or if the other person still needs to die. Seems like a godsend that roband can do this every day. I think roband is the closest we have to confirmed town as a scum that can turn people into townies is a pretty useless tool. So I'd like to hear his opinion on who should be lynched. As a shot in the dark, I'd trust ahammel over wam, and that's most likely where my vote is going.
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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby roband » Mon May 14, 2012 1:34 pm UTC

Well, I just got informed that I've been roleblocked. I have confirmed with the mod that this means my hammer power will not apply today, but any night powers I might have will still take effect.

Thanks scum...

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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby roband » Mon May 14, 2012 1:35 pm UTC

And my opinion on this situation? Follow the cop, then lynch him if he lied tends to be the best way to go about this.

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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby Snark » Mon May 14, 2012 1:43 pm UTC

Or Adam can day kill one of them. And then we can lynch the other if they were lying. I like this plan.

Adam, where you at?
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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby roband » Mon May 14, 2012 1:50 pm UTC

I suppose it'd be best to not let scum get another night of actions in, or more recruiting if there is a cult.

Adam, speak up.

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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby wam » Mon May 14, 2012 1:51 pm UTC

Yeah I didn't think anyone would believe me but oh well. Just lynch ahammel next.

On that note, does it not make sense to hold off on using the day kill and use Robands hammer power? As this way we won't lose a town player and we will still get all the answers?
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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby roband » Mon May 14, 2012 1:55 pm UTC

I was blocked... I mentioned that a few minutes ago.

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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby Angua » Mon May 14, 2012 1:55 pm UTC

Wam - if roband's been blocked today, the only way to use their hammer would be to wait 'til tomorrow with a no-lynch today...
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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby t1mm01994 » Mon May 14, 2012 1:57 pm UTC

AGAIN:

We've got bigger problems on our hands. I'm quite certain there's still a cult in here, and we never got one of them yet. Since all kills are explained, cult doesn't have one, which actually pleads wam out of my prioritylist.

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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby roband » Mon May 14, 2012 1:58 pm UTC

Which lets scum kill and cults recruit. I'd rather not do that. If Adam is up for it, let's kill and then lynch, if needs be.

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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby wam » Mon May 14, 2012 2:00 pm UTC

Stupid me not paying attention.

I guess we have to day kill one and lynch the other if they turn up town, as a No lynch is probably pretty bad for town in this situation.

Are we going to go for the same system we adopted yesterday (game day). If so

day kill ahammel
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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby roband » Mon May 14, 2012 2:01 pm UTC

t1mm01994 wrote:AGAIN:

We've got bigger problems on our hands. I'm quite certain there's still a cult in here, and we never got one of them yet. Since all kills are explained, cult doesn't have one, which actually pleads wam out of my prioritylist.


Can you not share any thing more than this? I don't not believe you, but it would be great to have something to go on...

Maybe an analysis of each player so far?

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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby Snark » Mon May 14, 2012 2:07 pm UTC

wam wrote:Stupid me not paying attention.

I guess we have to day kill one and lynch the other if they turn up town, as a No lynch is probably pretty bad for town in this situation.

Are we going to go for the same system we adopted yesterday (game day). If so

day kill ahammel


Well Adam, looks like wam beat you to it. I don't blame him at all though. If ahammel comes back watcher, then we can lynch wam.

Better save that kill for now, Adam.
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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby Angua » Mon May 14, 2012 2:09 pm UTC

Snark - I think you missed the fact that wam is voting for adam to daykill ahammel.

Given the fact htat DBC was killed out of the blue, I don't think wam would do it publically now.
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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby wam » Mon May 14, 2012 2:10 pm UTC

snark I was voting a suggestion for adam, my day kill was one shot (and was submitted by pming the mod).
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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby roband » Mon May 14, 2012 2:18 pm UTC

Out of the two, I still think it's best to follow the cop. Sorry if you're being lied about wam - but that's how I think it falls.

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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby Snark » Mon May 14, 2012 2:27 pm UTC

Yeah I noticed it was underlined, but I didn't read the words that came directly before it. Sorry for not paying enough attention.

Also, I really don't think wam's (or ahammel's) vote matters as they'll obviously be voting for each other. I'm with roband. Follow the cop watcher.

Adam, are you going to be the kingmaker or would you like us to decide by underlined votes again? If so,

Daykill: wam
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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby trineroks » Mon May 14, 2012 2:37 pm UTC

I just want to make this clear: is ahmmel claiming tracker or watcher?

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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby Adam H » Mon May 14, 2012 3:37 pm UTC

Theory: ahammel is cult and wam is mafia. Ahammel knows wam is scum because he tried to recruit him, and scum is unrecruitable. Ahammel takes this opportunity to get a scum killed and gain townie points. The problem with that theory is that tracker is a risky claim. He'll have to make up stuff every night until he's killed - stuff that can easily be disproved.

I think wam is a pretty straightforward kill. However, he's not cult, of that we can be pretty sure. Because of my pretty imba ability I think that cult might have unrestricted growth. The fact that we haven't killed any yet (except what about ultron???) terrifies me.

I'd like to know everyone's opinions on ahammel and wam before I do anything.
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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby ahammel » Mon May 14, 2012 3:48 pm UTC

trineroks wrote:I just want to make this clear: is ahmmel claiming tracker or watcher?

Tracker. I targeted wam and got the result that he killed woop. Not sure if I always get the action as part of my results, or only in special cases like a kill (I was either partially-roleblocked or followed a ninja N1). If that seems overpowered, the downside is that the target is notified that he or she was followed.

If you guys are unhappy with the claim I can target a confirmed or semi-confirmed townie tonight. I'll post the result tomorrow and the target can confirm that he or she was followed and the action. The downsides of this plan are that a) scum could kill my target (assuming that wam isn't the last) and b) it doesn't clear me of wam's accusation that I'm a cult recruiter or cultee. Which, for the record, I am not.
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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby roband » Mon May 14, 2012 3:52 pm UTC

Adam - good theory, it hadn't crossed my mind.

Tim seems to think cult is the scarier option as well, and he WAS scum, so knows their numbers.

Best case scenario if we kill wam - he is the last remaining scum and the is no more NK.
Best case scenario if we kill ahammel - well, actually I suppose he could be the last remaining scum too. But if he is cult, he could be the recruiter. So there is no more cult.

Basically, wam is either mafia or town. ahammel is either town, mafia or cult.
So basically, this post is useless because I haven't proven shit all.

Still, ahammel is making a claim and with no counter claim or "that's unpossible" claim, I feel like we probably have to follow him.

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wam
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Location: South England

Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby wam » Mon May 14, 2012 3:57 pm UTC

At no point did I ever recieve notification that I was followed. The claim that he was roleblocked or followed a Ninja on N1 thing is rather convieniant.

Therefore I think Ahammel is lying out is ass and I am right.

My suggestion is that we lynch someone other than the two of us tonight, Ahammel follows someone then they say whether they were followed or not.

The only issue I see with this is if he is a recruting cult, they could just recruit said person instead. However, I can't see a way round this without outing another unrecruitable townie.
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roband
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Re: Mafia Avengers - Day 4 - Not as good as the movie.

Postby roband » Mon May 14, 2012 4:05 pm UTC

wam, by not wanting to be killed here, you're as good as claiming that you're scum - you know that right?

I mean, sure, we need to consider if ahammel is telling the truth or if he is cult, but if you were town you'd just say "fine lynch me" and we probably wouldn't.

So now, for me, it comes down to "is cult ahammel smart enough to claim a scum result on actual scum whilst hiding behind the guise of being town". It's a big move, and I've never played with ahammel before.
I don't know.

If we have scum, we need to kill. Be it by lynch or by daykill.
If we have cult, we need to kill. By the same options.

Really, both of you should die - if we suspect ahammel.
You need to die, because you're not acting townlike in the slightest.

Guys, I need you to chime in here, I'm certain I have the logic right but I can't say for sure that I would like to make the call on ahammel one way or the other.
Of course, if I am not roleblocked tomorrow, I could always hammer ahammel in order to confirm his townness, but that's a long way away, time-wise.


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