xkcd

by **UniqueScreenname** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:48 pm UTC

NO!!!!!!! NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!! IF YOU WERE MASONS WITH THEM, THEY WOULD HAVE SAID IT BEFORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by **UniqueScreenname** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:49 pm UTC

If anyone is wondering I'm still sore over Gargoyles.

by **mpolo** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:34 pm UTC

I'm not going for this claim unless something major comes. I've been wounded by Gargoyles, too.

by **BoomFrog** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:41 pm UTC

Seriously, what? If AdamH or Woopate deny it sure, lynch me asap. But assuming they do not deny it then you can be sure that we are at least all masons or all scum together (including New User). So that would be our entire scum team probably.

Okay, this is how sure I am. Lynch ahammel today and if he flips town lynch me next. I am SURE at this point that he is scum since people are jumping on the easy lynch here (me).

Yeah, I got you good in Gargoyles. Don't let it affect you this game. Okay I'm very hard to read, but that makes me neutral at worst, not scummy.

by **BoomFrog** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:43 pm UTC

UniqueScreenname wrote:NO!!!!!!! NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!! IF YOU WERE MASONS WITH THEM, THEY WOULD HAVE SAID IT BEFORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh and why would they out all their masons buddies? Two is enough to confirm each-other, and at the time I didn't think I was going to be lynched.

by **UniqueScreenname** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:05 pm UTC

I suppose it could be a lack of foresight. Most people seemed suspicious of you but had considered Woopate/Adam worse. Taking them out of the equation made you next best.

by **UniqueScreenname** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:07 pm UTC

And also, was there some sort of discussion over which of you would claim with Woopate? IIRC you both had one vote before the mason claim, so you were essentially in the same position.

by **matt96** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:11 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
UniqueScreenname wrote:NO!!!!!!! NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!! IF YOU WERE MASONS WITH THEM, THEY WOULD HAVE SAID IT BEFORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh and why would they out all their masons buddies? Two is enough to confirm each-other, and at the time I didn't think I was going to be lynched.

Ok then, 1 question, are there more than the three of you? (don't name names, just give a yes or no answer, wait, I figured it out from a flavor perspective, and I feel I know what you are but not who you are the things of, if you understand what I am implying I think your mason group might be.)
Unvote
Vote: ahammel
I am willing to trust boomfrog for now, but that doesn't mean I don't still find him somewhat suspicious, at least until Adam H or Woopate confirms he is really part of the mason group. Also people have said that ahammel is useful because of his flavor knowledge, when he said

ahammel wrote:Ok, I'm only about halfway through the second book. Still, looks like that'll come in handy.

Wikipedia gave me enough information to point out characters who had been missed in the role spec, and enough to make an educated guess about what the mason group is, if anything, Wikipedia's flavor knowledge has been more helpful than ahammel's so far.

by **ConMan** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:46 pm UTC

Just over 7 hours to deadline.

Current votes:
ahammel - 2 - BoomFrog, matt96
Woopate - 2 - cjquines, greenlover
tastelikecoke - 2 - TheMaskedGecko, KrO2
BoomFrog - 5 - tastelikecoke, Snark, UniqueScreenName, mpolo, Angua
wam - 1 - Deva
KrO2 - 1 - ahammel

Also, modprods and modkills for inactivity will be handled during N2. If you haven't been active recently, post now.

by **Angua** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:49 pm UTC

As I'll be online, I'm willing to switch back if woopate or Adam come online before the deadline and say that this is a falseclaim.

unvote
vote: ahammel

by **ahammel** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:49 pm UTC

matt96 wrote:Also people have said that ahammel is useful because of his flavor knowledge, when he said
ahammel wrote:Ok, I'm only about halfway through the second book. Still, looks like that'll come in handy.

This isn't a reason for voting for me, is it? Because I'd read all the relevant books by the beginning of the day.

by **ahammel** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:04 pm UTC

Snark wrote:
ahammel wrote:I'll buy the Adam/Woop roleclaim for now, but I'd like a rolename from one of you. And, of course, if NU turns up town we'll hang the both of you.

You wouldn't accept the possibility of insanity or paranoia?

I revise my statement: it's unlikely enough that their one-shot cop is paranoid or insane to lynch one of them. Preferably Woopate, on grounds of non-contribution.

I see no reason not to accept Boomie's mason claim in the absense of contradiction from one of his alleged co-masons; but again, I'd like a rolename from one of the three. Do you guys recruit?

This is weird, though:

BoomFrog wrote:Okay, this is how sure I am. Lynch ahammel today and if he flips town lynch me next.

If I'm town, why does that make you scum? You haven't claimed a night result, just a scumread. Those can be wrong without you having lied about it.

Hell, if you lynch me, don't lynch Boomfrog when I flip town. In fact: don't lynch him now. The main arguments for it so far are 1) vig speculation, 2) a moderately bad roleblock ID suggestion and 3) assumption that the mason claim is false. I don't see how 1) is scummy, 2) is townier than anything (why would scum stick their neck out like that just to have a small chance at IDing a roleblocker?) and 3) is just ridiculous until we hear from the other masons.

by **KrO2** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:08 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:No time phone post.

I'm masons with AdamH and woopate too.

Well, this is good news. It means we can get a role name or three. So BoomFrog, can you tell us who you or anyone in your group is?
And there's another reason why it's good news. I could picture Adam claiming masons as a desperate gambit if he and Woopate are scummates. BoomFrog joining them would be even riskier. Counting New User, this claim might be all their remaining eggs in the same basket. It makes me almost hope they're lying.

by **ahammel** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:11 pm UTC

In fact:

Unvote
Vote: TLC

On the grounds that a) TLC is acting scummy (see below) and b) we've now got two options for turning the BF-wagon around.

tlc wrote:Fortunately, only 3 roles are 100% confirmed town...

After I named 12.

by **Snark** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:26 pm UTC

Unvote
Vote: tastelikecoke

Votals:
ahammel - 3 - BoomFrog, matt96, Angua
Woopate - 2 - cjquines, greenlover
tastelikecoke - 4 - TheMaskedGecko, KrO2, ahammel, Snark
BoomFrog - 3 - tastelikecoke, UniqueScreenName, mpolo
wam - 1 - Deva

I bet that at least one of those 3 masons is a traitor and will not treat them as confirmed town for the rest of the game, BUT I'd like to hear more from all of them before passing judgment.

24 deadline extension in light of recent events?

If we get the extension, I'd rather vote for wam than TLC, but as it is now, deadline is in 3 hours, and I have to choose between ahammel, TLC, or one of the claimed masons. See my player analysis for why I'm choosing TLC.

by **mpolo** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:41 pm UTC

O.K. Since there hasn't been any movement there, I guess I have to accept the claim for now.

Unvote

I am down to just "somewhat scummy"s -- I don't particularly like my choice list… it's essentially tastelikecoke or Snark, maybe wam on the outside chance.

Assuming the deadline is coming, I'll go with tastelikecoke just for being the surest way to protect our masons.

Vote: tastelikecoke

by **UniqueScreenname** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:48 pm UTC

I'm not going to unvote until someone backs up his claim. However, I'm not upset about the direction the lynch is going now. I just don't want to give in so easily.

by **Adam H** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:55 pm UTC

Yes BF is in our group. I didn't want to out anyone who didn't want to be outed, and it makes us seem like less of a threat to scum.

I would be willing to claim my name, but I can think of a couple reasons why that could be bad, so I will hold off on that for now.

I'm going to trust BF with the lynch today. That no one else seems to want to lynch ahammel makes him look more suspicious.

Vote: Ahammel

TLC is still up by 1 vote, I think.

by **KrO2** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:58 pm UTC

ahammel wrote:In fact:

Unvote
Vote: TLC

On the grounds that a) TLC is acting scummy (see below) and b) we've now got two options for turning the BF-wagon around.

tlc wrote:Fortunately, only 3 roles are 100% confirmed town...

After I named 12.

ahammel switched his vote to agree with my vote, when he explicitly thinks I'm scum, in order to protect himself. He did this instead of posting a defense. I'm pretty happy with lynching either of them now, but if I switch my vote it'll be tied. I'll try to be on before deadline and if ahammel gets another vote I'll switch.

Ninja: Yes, exactly that happened.

Unvote
Vote: ahammel

by **KrO2** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:06 pm UTC

Ever since BoomFrog's post against ahammel, I've been thinking it sounded reasonable. Since at the time I thought BoomFrog was scummy I tried to give those suspicions less weight, but after he claimed I stopped being afraid to act on them. The other thing was ahammel saying, in the context of mass claims, that his role name is a character where the claim might not be strong enough. That's probably true for some townies, but it's also a ping.
I feel like now I'm going with my gut feeling, which I like. I had a few bad reasons for voting for tastelikecoke (pressure to try to be consistent after suspecting Adam H, the fact that I relied on a flavor post from ahammel more than was wise) and those might have contributed to me keeping my vote where it was as long as I did.

by **UniqueScreenname** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:23 pm UTC

Ok, fine.
Unvote
Vote: ahammel

Because I noticed how he started kissing up to people too. Not necessary when you aren't really in danger of being lynched.

I hate mason claims. That is all.

by **Angua** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:41 pm UTC

Ok, I'm happy with the ahammel lynch. Boomfrog has been corroborated, so I'll leave my vote where it is.

by **mpolo** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:47 pm UTC

At this point, it doesn't really matter what I do, I think. The case against ahammel is reasonably solid, so I don't really object to the lynch, and my vote was admittedly weak, as I was primarily trying to turn the lynch around from BoomFrog after leaving my vote on him in frustration.

I will at least

Unvote

Vote: ahammel

to prevent any shenanegans after I go to bed. (Yay! Germany is in the quarterfinals!)

by **Deva** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:26 pm UTC

Unofficial Votals:
ahammel - 7 - BoomFrog, matt96, Angua, Adam H, KrO2, UniqueScreenname, mpolo
Woopate - 2 - cjquines, greenlover
tastelikecoke - 3 - TheMaskedGecko, ahammel, Snark
BoomFrog - 1 - tastelikecoke
wam - 1 – Deva

Piled on ahammel quickly. Thirty minutes until the deadline (possibly twenty-four hours, thirty minutes). Seventeen players. Hammers at nine.

by **BoomFrog** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:55 pm UTC

Good morning! I love living.

@Deva: Do you disagree with my assessment of ahammel? If he is not scum who do you think is?

by **ConMan** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:56 pm UTC

Deadline has been reached.

In the truly fickle nature of the mob, what had started as a bandwagon on BoomFrog turned at the last second to ahammel.

ahammel - 7 - BoomFrog, matt96, Angua, Adam H, KrO2, UniqueScreenname, mpolo
Woopate - 2 - cjquines, greenlover
tastelikecoke - 3 - TheMaskedGecko, ahammel, Snark
BoomFrog - 1 - tastelikecoke
wam - 1 – Deva

ahammel has been lynched.

It is now Night. Please PM your night actions to the mods. Night 2 will end in three days at 7:55am June 21 AEST, 9:55pm June 20 UTC.

by **ConMan** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:51 pm UTC

During the night, the pile of bodies had multipled - but many of them appeared to be dead from a rather surprising source.

"You were all taking far too long," Dame Primus said. "I figured I would help things along."

Yet no-one was entirely sure how she thought she was helping, with her apparently random application of the Keys' magic to kill. On the one hand, there was New User, whose death they could rejoice in given the importance of his position, but on the other, ahippo was quite clearly one of the most helpful rodents Arthur had known.

New User was Saturday's Dusk, scum.
ahippo was Goldbite, Raised Rat, independent mason.

There were two bodies, though, that the Will did not lay claim to. The first, ahammel, killed by the mob the previous day, could not have been more obviously an agent of Saturday, from the glittering sword down to the House-trained sorceror's paraphernalia. The second body, though, was much more innocent. As Deva's disguise faded, it revealed a youthful figure, clad in the protective paper of a worker from the Extremely Grand Canal of the Middle House.

ahammel was an Artful Lounger, scum.
Deva was Peter Pirkin, Paper Pusher, Piper's Child, vanilla town.

The death of two of Saturday's legion was a cause for celebration, but they were reminded that it still wasn't over.

Day 3 has commenced. 15 alive, 8 to hammer. As I have to travel for work next week, deadline for D3 will be 8:00am June 27 AEST, 10:pm June 26 UTC.

by **UniqueScreenname** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:37 am UTC

A candle for Deva, probably the most entertaining mafia player ever. Whoever killed him is a monster.

That being said, we got rid of two scum yesterday, which is amazing. I suppose this is supposed to confirm the mason group, but I'm still rather perplexed as to how a town mason group with an investigating power can have every member look so scummy. I'm not convinced all of them are town. A mason group starting out with three people seems prone to some bastardry, so I'm not considering any of them confirmed town just yet.

by **Woopate** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:31 am UTC

Great. Two scum deaths is better than nothing. Any claims, like from a watcher or cop? If we've got another cop kicking around aside from our mason one-shot and it got lucky, that'd be awesome.

USN, do you have any flavor knowledge that might suggest a traitor in the mason group?

I'd like to apologize for vanishing on you all, it was Father's day weekend up in Canada, and a bunch of busy stuff jumped on me all at once, I barely even had a chance to log in at all.

by **UniqueScreenname** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:06 am UTC

I have no flavor knowledge at all, but if I did, it would be entirely speculative anyway, since none of you have nameclaimed at all.

by **Woopate** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:19 am UTC

I'm not sure why you need a nameclaim when the mod spelled it out just a few posts ago.

by **BoomFrog** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:34 am UTC

I'm just going to go ahead and get this out there now to reduce the possible wine:

ahippo was Goldbite, Raised Rat, independent mason.

he was our fourth. We're actually not town, we're indy survivors. That said, I totally found you guys some scum yesterday so maybe you should trust my scumdar?

ahippo was quite clearly one of the most helpful rodents Arthur had known.

by **mpolo** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:00 am UTC

That explains a lot. (Though looking scummy isn't the best way to survive…

).

I note that there is a whole lot of independentness going on around here -- 4 independants in a game this size is a little surprising to me.

For now, the indies seem to be working with town, but we have to be careful -- if scum starts pulling ahead, they are liable to change sides to stay alive.

by **KrO2** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:49 am UTC

So, can we get some mason role names? I'm not sure how useful it'll be, but I don't see much of a downside.
Also, if you're the Raised Rats then based on the first post I would have believed a win condition townier than survivor. So I think you're telling the truth.
Also also, if this doesn't go without saying then anyone who is not in the claimed mason group should speak up if they were masons with careyhammer/ahippo. If BoomFrog is lying and trying to co-opt an existing mason group to prove his own, he should be counterclaimed.

Death toll so far: 2 cult members including the recruiter, 2 mafia, 1 independent probably survivor, 1 town. Can we expect Saturday's Dawn and Noon now? With four independents and a cult we probably don't have too many scum to go.

by **wam** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:50 am UTC

So looking back to the beginning we started with 20 and 6 have died

Am I right that there are 14 left alive not 15?

Using KrO2s number with 2 cult down, 2 mafia, 1 indie, 1 town we have 14.

Now 3 of those are aparrently indie masons together. I reckon we most likely have 2 scum left? which would make the starting config, 2/4/4/10 with town at 50%. Although we assumed twon started in a a majority in werewolves and that didn't work out.

I went back through the last 2 or so pages looking for anyone buddying ahammel and found the following quote from snark

Snark wrote:ahammel - FoS's eculc for cult-suggesting. Great player who is impossible to read. Neutral (but wouldn't mind lynching him so I don't have to try and get a read on him)Townie. ahammel is being helpful and offered a good reason for being against the mass name-claim. His content is reasonable and I have little issue with anything he's said.

He then said he would vote for one of TLC and ahammel at the point where the bandwaggon was building on ahammel and picked TLC.

Im pretty happy to do the following

Vote:snark

The only other slight bit of buddying I found was the following.

From TMG

TheMaskedGecko wrote:ahammel: Flavopur spec (Godfather, no cult). (second kill faction, SK). Flavour explanation (No cult). Votes eculc (childishness). Flavour explanation, Fos on KrO2 for claiming to spot the cult. Excuse for lurkiness, Scum list (TLC+woopate+BF+cjq= possible scum), against massclaim (we'd lose our doc, easy to falseclaim). Votes woopate (get him posting). Pushes the no cult idea but I can't see what scum would gain from doing that. Either town or a second cult [paranoia fuel]

by **tastelikecoke** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:56 am UTC

I will be out of service after this post until possibly Saturday (Friday for most).

I still haven't read ahammel's explanation of his vote against me, and possibly to others, so not much opinion on what happened. Deva is somehow bound to be killed by scum, but it implies more that scum can still freedom to choose anyone.

Since ahippo can't and never post, we can't be sure BF's just sticking up with ahippo's corpse and saying there's a fourth is making the claim more far-fetched. Other than that the mod doesn't intend to give vague death reveals so ahippo's probably townier than indie as the flavor says to be.

by **cjquines** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:12 pm UTC

...AWESOME! Two scummys are dead!

More when I live.

by **Angua** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:55 pm UTC

I had a feeling that the mason group (should they exist) were going to be the Raised Rats - they had these special bottles in the books where you put a message in one bottle and it came out of the other. Independent mason survivors make me nervous, but hopefully they'll keep helping us scum hunt for now - especially as we've managed to kill 2 scum, and 2 cult already. Which leads me to ask

Is it possible to have the rolenames and alignments next to the dead players in the OP? It takes a while to search the thread when you can't remember which page has the morning flavour text.

I think that the existence of a vanilla town role (who, as a piper's child was probably put in for recruit/manipulation fodder by the piper, which also leads me to suspect that there are other piper's children scattered around who are also vanilla town) means that it's much more likely that town hasn't started out in a minority in this game (in werewolves, everyone had a power of some description).

tastelikecoke wrote:Since ahippo can't and never post, we can't be sure BF's just sticking up with ahippo's corpse and saying there's a fourth is making the claim more far-fetched. Other than that the mod doesn't intend to give vague death reveals so ahippo's probably townier than indie as the flavor says to be.

I'm confused by what you're saying here - ahippo had to be masons with someone, and if no one else sticks up and says that boomfrog is lying, we can be pretty sure that our mason group (who are all vouching for each other) are legit, at least as far as truly being masons with ahippo. It doesn't tell us that they are necessarily not scum, but ahippo wouldn't have known that anyway.

by **fshfood** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:59 pm UTC

wam wrote:Am I right that there are 14 left alive not 15?

That is correct. 14 Alive 8 to lynch.

by **Snark** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:14 pm UTC

I was wrong about ahammel. So sue me.

Vote: wam

Don't anyone call this an OMGUS. I called him scummy first. He's provided very little content all game, and hasn't posted very frequently.

Also: ahammel was against the mass claim and turned up scum AND didn't even attempt to false claim before being lynched. eculc was lynched in part because of a bad false claim. Deva was pro-mass-claim and turned up town. Anyone want to reconsider?

Vote: Mass claim

Also: A 4 person survivor team????? What the crap?!?! Can someone explain to me how that doesn't hand scum the game on a silver platter? Survivors usually side with scum in the end game right? I'm not suggesting that we waste a lynch on them unless traitor suspicions are somewhat validated, but perhaps a vig could dwindle their numbers if they have no solid reads?

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