morsus854 wrote:The guy that said people hate puas because it feels like cheating and they don't want someone else getting a leg up on the game has the right idea. Also people think it should be a natural thing and I understand how breaking it down to a science is considered creeping.
Also interesting how 3/4 of the people that responded to my post ignored half it's content.
Some people get disgusted and throw poo.
There are two styles of pickup.
Surely more than two.
I will describe my background in this. First, I read Richard Feynman's description. Feynman had no idea how to pick up women in Las Vegas, and an expert told him how. First the man did some stuff to get Feynman to trust him. Then when Feynman was actually ready to listen, he said "You just ask her". Don't buy her drinks, don't buy her dinners, don't give her jewelry. Just ask her.
Feynman then expanded this into fullfledged negging. I thought he missed the point. Women hanging around bars in Las Vegas, who are not prostitutes. A fair number of them will say yes tonight to somebody who asks, if somebody asks. But he has to ask. Feynman needed to do negging to build up his own confidence enough to ask. Using intense negging he had sex with a disgusting manipulative bitchy woman.
Later I got curious about something called NLP. They made extreme claims for some sort of science-based skills. I didn't want to pay much, and I didn't want to take their classes -- if they were frauds I'd waste time and money, while if they had weird powers I wasn't sure I trusted them with my mind. I looked up what I could find out about them on the Internet, and back then there was an active Usenet group in which big names in NLP contributed regularly. I found that most of what they taught was simple obvious stuff, but they taught it in a way that people actually learned it. Part of that was promoting themselves as experts, or gods or something, so that students would actually pay attention. Part of it was making simple obvious things look mystical and strange. Students used it more and better when they didn't understand it, because when they did understand it they trivialized it. They taught a simple technique where you absorb whatever you can from an expert, and then when you are doing the task you pretend you are the expert. It doesn't give you knowledge you don't have, but it keeps you from dithering. The teachers had their students pretend to be them. There was nothing unusual about any of it except that they taught it in a way that actually worked.
As I watched them I gradually noticed that there were a lot of prestigious NLP teachers who didn't have enough money. They taught their students that they were wonderful people. They taught their students to be like them. The salesmen who took NLP classes to make people buy walked away, but a lot of the rest felt like it was the best thing in the world to be an NLP teacher. The more classes they taught the worse their competition.
While most NLP teachers were barely scraping by, a few found a new market. Find a psychological skill that people desperately want and supply it to them. They noticed there were lots of men who were too intimidated to talk to women, and they started teaching them to be more confident. Quickly they divided up the market. Some men were just timid. Some were enraged that no woman would ever want them. Some imagined women as ideal alien inhuman beings that they could never understand. Etc. The teaching methods that worked for one batch of men would fail for the next. So they targeted their advertising to one type at a time.
Imagine a 32 year old virgin who is angry at women. They could so easily give him what he wants but they never think to, because they want to keep control of a scarce resource.... This guy doesn't need a teacher, he needs the bomb squad. The teachers would collect whole classes of guys like that and convince them that by pretending to be perfectly normal men they could manipulate women into having sex with them. In reality all they had to do was act normal and go places that available women go, and Just Ask Her, and they could have sex. They needed to think they were using secret magic mind control because that's what kind of people they were. When a guy like that finds that 5% or more of eligible women are willing to have casual sex with him, that's a good start toward defusing that bomb. Is he going to be upset that his magic mind control doesn't work 100%? No.
Meanwhile the majority of NLP teachers were moaning that they couldn't make a living teaching NLP. They didn't want to use NLP to find new market niches. They wanted to be NLP teachers. That was how they imagined themselves. There might have been other market niches they expanded in besides shy men, but if so they were carefully not mentioning it.
That "shy men" market wasn't just supplied by NLP retreads. Anybody could move in and cut out his own niche market. Men who fantasized having lots of bi women at once. Men who fantasized controlling slavegirls. Men who'd like to imagine themselves pimps. If they had their own slant and they could get enough customers together to pay expenses, they could market their own brand.
So here's this little industry, and some of it looks kind of disgusting -- it caters to men who start out even more disgusting. Men who have been failed by society and kind of curdled inside. People like AngrySquirrel look at the more disgusting advertising, and hear about the more disgusting "techniques", and assume they know what the whole thing is about.
It does no good to discuss it with them. They are not open to discussion.
"I say it's spinach and I say the hell with it."
I know I wouldn't be in my current relationship without this because I use to be too shy to talk to girls, extremely needy, judgemental, and had no confidence. I used this info to build myself into an entirely different person.
That is entirely to your credit. You got tools and you used them to good purpose. Somebody else might have used the same tools to turn himself into an utter asshole. I like to think that people who felt hopeless, who find that there are possibilities for them, will usually try for their greatest hopes. But sometimes they sell themselves short. A man who could not bring himself to any personal relationship at all with any woman, may grow into someone who can handle women who want to be impersonally dominated, and stop there.