1180: "Virus Venn Diagram"

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Primis
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1180: "Virus Venn Diagram"

Postby Primis » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:05 am UTC

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Within five minutes of the Singularity appearing, somebody will suggest defragging it.

Personally, I've never been able to prove this, I've never had a known virus.
Last edited by Primis on Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:53 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby rhomboidal » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:06 am UTC

I just love the idea of a viral Venn diagram.

(And was inspired to compose my own love poem to Venn.)
Last edited by rhomboidal on Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:59 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby SchighSchagh » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:15 am UTC

Wow, I can't even remember when's the last time I had to worry about defragging. Probably when I was still using Window$...

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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby scotty2haughty » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:32 am UTC

I think Windows automatically defrags now...or so they tell us.
/s/

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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby Coyne » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:32 am UTC

Not sure I agree with the diagram. I found the "Stoned" virus on a computer once, and the behaviors it produced would definitely make people think the computer had a virus. They would have been right.

I just threw out a diskette that was infected with that virus; that I had kept for more than 25 years. Not only do I no longer have a 5.25" drive, but for some reason I think I'd have been wary about testing to see if it still worked.

Sometimes paranoia is justified.
In all fairness...

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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby owenv » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:36 am UTC

SchighSchagh wrote:Wow, I can't even remember when's the last time I had to worry about defragging. Probably when I was still using Window$...

haven't thought about it since I switched to SSD

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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby algorerhythms » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:39 am UTC

Coyne wrote:Not sure I agree with the diagram. I found the "Stoned" virus on a computer once, and the behaviors it produced would definitely make people think the computer had a virus. They would have been right.

I just threw out a diskette that was infected with that virus; that I had kept for more than 25 years. Not only do I no longer have a 5.25" drive, but for some reason I think I'd have been wary about testing to see if it still worked.

Sometimes paranoia is justified.

The main difference between the viruses of today and the viruses of 25 years ago is that today's viruses are made to make money rather than as pranks, so they work best if they stay hidden, which means a computer infected with a (well-coded) virus will tend not to show symptoms that make people think it has a virus.

SchighSchagh wrote:Wow, I can't even remember when's the last time I had to worry about defragging. Probably when I was still using Window$...

I haven't needed to defrag a computer (Windows or Linux) in at least ten years.
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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby keithl » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:49 am UTC

Primis wrote:Personally, I've never been able to prove this, I've never had a known virus.


That's what YOU think, chum. :-/

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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby nowhereman » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:20 am UTC

I keep my computer in good condition and with every security protocol I can activate erm... activated. I have had one virus infection in the last four years. I was one of the lucky ones to get infected on day one of the virus being written. I have first hand knowledge of how long it takes virus definition writers to write a definition of a new virus. TBH though... that infection was my fault, (weird dialog boxes are a red flag I have already warned others about).

Also, I love the alt text. Mostly because of the sheer amount of scifi I have been reading about the singularity. In fact, one book focused upon an AI created from computer viruses.

AI-Apocalypse (book two of the Singularity Series): http://www.amazon.com/A-I-Apocalypse-Singularity-Series-ebook/dp/B007FZVI2M/
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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby Netzach » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:52 am UTC

Isn't this thread named inappropriately?

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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby Neil_Boekend » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:53 am UTC

So we should update our defraggers to include an "evil humanity destroying AI" detector and destroyer?

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1180: "Virus Venn Diagram"

Postby Netzach » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:58 am UTC

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Within five minutes of the Singularity appearing, somebody will suggest defragging it.

Not to be rude, but isn't this the format suggested?

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LazyMonk
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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby LazyMonk » Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:05 am UTC

So true.
Every time My dad's comp lags a bit he starts to wonder "maybe there's a virus? or some horses managed to sneak in?"
I always counter it with "when was the last time we had a confirmed virus or trojan on any of the home computers?" (the answer to that is a single occurrence about 10 years ago).

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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby tibfulv » Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:25 am UTC

Netzach wrote:Isn't this thread named inappropriately?


Indeed, it needs the number up front.

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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby San Fran Sam » Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:27 am UTC

algorerhythms wrote:
Coyne wrote:Not sure I agree with the diagram. I found the "Stoned" virus on a computer once, and the behaviors it produced would definitely make people think the computer had a virus. They would have been right.

I just threw out a diskette that was infected with that virus; that I had kept for more than 25 years. Not only do I no longer have a 5.25" drive, but for some reason I think I'd have been wary about testing to see if it still worked.

Sometimes paranoia is justified.

The main difference between the viruses of today and the viruses of 25 years ago is that today's viruses are made to make money rather than as pranks, so they work best if they stay hidden, which means a computer infected with a (well-coded) virus will tend not to show symptoms that make people think it has a virus.


And that's EXACTLY how you know you HAVE a virus!

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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby Lewton » Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:57 am UTC

This comic is nonsense. I don't disagree with the premise that there are viruses out there that are not meant to be found, and probably won't be found but there's a very real class of very in your face visible viruses, like the fake anti-virus popups that try to convince you you need to pay 30 bucks to get rid of a malicious infection

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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby ManaUser » Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:14 am UTC

Or more recently the ones claiming your computer has been locked by the FBI for copyright infringement and/or child porn.

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SeySayux
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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby SeySayux » Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:53 am UTC

That's not a Venn diagram.

That's a Euler diagram.

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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby pduthie » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:03 am UTC

SeySayux wrote:That's not a Venn diagram.
That's a Euler diagram.


Even if that is true - which I'm not entirely convinced is the case - at least most people have heard of a Venn diagram.
Of course if it is Euler then xkcd loses geek credentials by pandering to the popularist mathematics crowd, the shame!
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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby Jeff_UK » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:12 am UTC

algorerhythms wrote:The main difference between the viruses of today and the viruses of 25 years ago is that today's viruses are made to make money rather than as pranks, so they work best if they stay hidden, which means a computer infected with a (well-coded) virus will tend not to show symptoms that make people think it has a virus.


Them were the days, my favorite was the windows 95 snowstorm virus. which filled your screen with snow, and was fixed by the bulldozer antivirus, in which a little man came along in a bulldozer and cleared your screen for you.

I had a whole diskette of comedy viruses along with a few less comedy ones. I lost it because I wrote something on the label other than 'viruses' and forgot what it was for over a decade, I've just this second remembered that it was 'Duke NUKEM' ...( lol)... I'll see if I can dig it out of my box of disks :)
Last edited by Jeff_UK on Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:13 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby Klear » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:12 am UTC

As long as the singularity doesn't turn our civilization off and on.

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SeySayux
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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby SeySayux » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:50 am UTC

pduthie wrote:
SeySayux wrote:That's not a Venn diagram.
That's a Euler diagram.


Even if that is true - which I'm not entirely convinced is the case - at least most people have heard of a Venn diagram.
Of course if it is Euler then xkcd loses geek credentials by pandering to the popularist mathematics crowd, the shame!


If you read the Wikipedia article, you'll notice that if it were a Venn diagram, the two sets would show an intersection, but the intersection would be marked black (i.e. nonexistent).

This Euler diagram demonstrates the relationship between Venn and Euler diagrams. As does this Venn diagram.

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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby peewee_RotA » Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:53 am UTC

tibfulv wrote:
Netzach wrote:Isn't this thread named inappropriately?


Indeed, it needs the number up front.


I think it's because the original poster has a virus.
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Re: 1180: "Virus Venn Diagram"

Postby banjo2E » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:55 pm UTC

This isn't strictly accurate, certain kinds of malware designed specifically to cause as much damage as possible to the target will cause computers to behave in suspicious ways. For example, a program that creates large amounts of folders in quick succession will cause obvious lag and possibly crashes.

These days, however, they're few and far between; most malicious programs try to remain undetected as long as possible.

If this is supposed to be a semantics thing, I'd just like to say that insisting people use "malware" instead of "virus" is similar to insisting they use "tortoise" instead of "turtle". It's already evident what they're talking about, there's no need to force people to learn terminology for disciplines they don't practice.

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Re: 1180: "Virus Venn Diagram"

Postby pachinkoid » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:03 pm UTC

tsk.

as any fool knows, this is an euler diagram and not a venn diagram.

the former shows the relationship between sets.

the latter shows all possible intersections of two or more sets.

thank you, carry on.

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Re: 1180: "Virus Venn Diagram"

Postby Istaro » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:32 pm UTC

banjo2E wrote:If this is supposed to be a semantics thing, I'd just like to say that insisting people use "malware" instead of "virus" is similar to insisting they use "tortoise" instead of "turtle". It's already evident what they're talking about, there's no need to force people to learn terminology for disciplines they don't practice.


Tortoise vs. turtle, though, isn't an issue of terminology, nor is it a subset/superset relationship—they're different animals. One lives on land, one in the sea, if I'm not mistaken. In other words, it would simply wrong, not pedantic, to insist that someone use "tortoise" instead of "turtle" if they were actually talking about turtles and not tortoises.

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Re: 1180: "Virus Venn Diagram"

Postby mathmannix » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:36 pm UTC

Thank you Pachinkoid! Today I learned...

Regarding turtles: it seems that the technical definition of turtles is all members of the order Chelonii. This includes sea turtles, land-dwelling tortoises, and freshwater terrapins. (Just as dolphins are members of a subset of toothed whales, I suppose...)
I hear velociraptor tastes like chicken.

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Re: 1180: "Virus Venn Diagram"

Postby Reecer6 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:36 pm UTC

Lesson learned: Google just decided they wanted to redirect people to buyinsurancecreditandporn dot com, it's not a virus.

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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby ctdonath » Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:10 pm UTC

Lewton wrote:This comic is nonsense. I don't disagree with the premise ... but ...


It's a comic.

It's not an infographic accompanying a comprehensive peer-reviewed scholarly tome on the subject.

The premise, for most instances of "maybe it has a virus?", is true.

It's funny. Laugh.

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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby cellocgw » Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:15 pm UTC

Lewton wrote:This comic is nonsense. I don't disagree with the premise that there are viruses out there that are not meant to be found, and probably won't be found but there's a very real class of very in your face visible viruses, like the fake anti-virus popups that try to convince you you need to pay 30 bucks to get rid of a malicious infection


Pop-ups are not even close to being viruses, even in the current colloquialism which lumps viruses and trojan horses and a few other things into a single category.

You are much closer to nonsense than this comic is.
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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby screen317 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:42 pm UTC

When in doubt, www.Malwarebytes.org !

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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby endolith » Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:43 pm UTC

Lewton wrote:This comic is nonsense. I don't disagree with the premise that there are viruses out there that are not meant to be found, and probably won't be found but there's a very real class of very in your face visible viruses, like the fake anti-virus popups that try to convince you you need to pay 30 bucks to get rid of a malicious infection


The people the comic is referencing would not say "I think this is a virus!" They would click on the anti-virus popups and buy the software.

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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby Jackpot777 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:46 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:
Lewton wrote:This comic is nonsense. I don't disagree with the premise that there are viruses out there that are not meant to be found, and probably won't be found but there's a very real class of very in your face visible viruses, like the fake anti-virus popups that try to convince you you need to pay 30 bucks to get rid of a malicious infection


Pop-ups are not even close to being viruses, even in the current colloquialism which lumps viruses and trojan horses and a few other things into a single category.

You are much closer to nonsense than this comic is.


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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby Jofur » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:03 pm UTC

ctdonath wrote:
Lewton wrote:This comic is nonsense. I don't disagree with the premise ... but ...


It's a comic.

It's not an infographic accompanying a comprehensive peer-reviewed scholarly tome on the subject.

The premise, for most instances of "maybe it has a virus?", is true.

It's funny. Laugh.


What ctdonath said.
This just happened the other day. The lady cutting my hair says "The mouse pointer won't move; I think my computer has a virus."

heh
Everybody is doing it and nobody knows why.

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Re: 1180: "Virus Venn Diagram

Postby Apeiron » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:10 pm UTC

"Maybe it has a virus" is a statement not a question.

Question marks mark questions.

Idiot making excuses for the ignorant and lazy in 3... 2... 1....

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Re: 1180: "Virus Venn Diagram

Postby dp2 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:19 pm UTC

The viruses I've seen lately are the ones designed to make you think your hard drive is corrupt via a popup that says "Hard drive corrupt". It is a virus that causes problems, and people think it is a virus.

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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby cellocgw » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:35 pm UTC

Jackpot777 wrote:
cellocgw wrote:
Lewton wrote:This comic is nonsense. I don't disagree with the premise that there are viruses out there that are not meant to be found, and probably won't be found but there's a very real class of very in your face visible viruses, like the fake anti-virus popups that try to convince you you need to pay 30 bucks to get rid of a malicious infection


Pop-ups are not even close to being viruses, even in the current colloquialism which lumps viruses and trojan horses and a few other things into a single category.

You are much closer to nonsense than this comic is.


Image

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:oops: :mrgreen: :lol: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: 1180: "Virus Venn Diagram

Postby Wnderer » Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:37 pm UTC

It's not a computer virus. It's internet amoebic dysentery.

I've had problems with malware this week. CNET is evil. I got a postscript reader from them and it dumped a half a dozen different toolbars and homepage hijackers on my computer. I had to run Malwarebytes, MCafee virus scan, and edit the registry to clean it out. Pain in the ass.

The other major flavor of annoyance is all the auto-updaters and boot loaders loaded by programs you barely use. When I had dial up it was really bad. Some program I barely used was always deciding it was more important than me and taking my bandwidth. A program should ask if you would like to check for updates when you start it. They shouldn't be set to phone home regularly. Open the java console and check out how java updates. Even if you set it to check for updates monthly, it still phones home weekly. These updates are mostly excuses to gather data on their install base.

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Re: Virus Venn Diagram

Postby omgryebread » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:25 pm UTC

SeySayux wrote:That's not a Venn diagram.

That's a Euler diagram.


pachinkoid wrote:tsk.

as any fool knows, this is an euler diagram and not a venn diagram.

the former shows the relationship between sets.

the latter shows all possible intersections of two or more sets.

thank you, carry on.


Poetic License. He's sacrificing some accuracy for humor. Jokes are set up as a perversion of the expected. Looking at the main joke, it's only funny because of a previous setup. Imagine if you had never encountered anyone who complained about how a virus is making YouTube videos load slowly. It would not be funny. Also imagine you had never heard of the singularity. The alt text is a perversion of the usual path of singularity fiction. When we read singularity, we expect the traditional conflict or benefits it brings in most sci-fi. We don't expect defragging. Our surprise at seeing that is why the joke works.

So the first reason to call it a Venn diagram is because we know what a Venn diagram is. The vast majority of XKCD can easily be understood with a high school education. I don't think most people at that education level learn Euler diagrams, but would know Venn diagrams.

The second is that you don't really get a joke naming it properly. When the title proclaims you will see a Venn diagram, your mind is setup to see a Venn diagram. When you don't, that surprise is funny. The joke is that there's no intersection. Expecting a Euler diagram and seeing one wouldn't set that up.
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Re: 1180: "Virus Venn Diagram

Postby cisengineer » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:00 pm UTC

I had a really nice English professor claim that a bolt of lightning caused her to have to defragment her hard drive...I didn't have the heart to say anything, but it still makes me cringe to this day.


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