1190: "Time"

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ofvn2vw1872 » Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:37 pm UTC

k.bookbinder wrote:People? Rising dust? Glinting in the light? Could it really be that my fanciful prediction was correct? Could it be the TdF riders off n the distance? If it is, I think my head shall explode. :shock:

In any case, I think it is interesting that Megan is specific about it being dust, and not smoke. Dust rising up would indicate, in my mind, movement: either someone moving rapidly, or many people moving at once. But the glinting she spotted leaves me to believe that it may be some kind of vehicle on a road, kicking up dust. Perhaps, though, a caravan of many people, might cause the the dust, with objects on wagons causing the glinting. Or perhaps one of these:
Spoiler:
Image


ETA: @BytEfLUSh Brilliant!


Was away, and now back a bit, and this above in spoiler is exactly what I thought of. Hoping to be in present soonH
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Re: 1190: "Time" TdF Update

Postby sford » Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:39 pm UTC

Arky wrote:ETA: ...


Ok, I give up. I see it everywhere, but I don't read carefully enough to have seen an explanation anywhere. I looked in the wiki's abbreviations and glossary, and I don't see it. I assume it's not "Estimated Time of Arrival"...

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Re: 1190: "Time" TdF Update

Postby marchlight » Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:44 pm UTC

sford wrote:
Arky wrote:ETA: ...


Ok, I give up. I see it everywhere, but I don't read carefully enough to have seen an explanation anywhere. I looked in the wiki's abbreviations and glossary, and I don't see it. I assume it's not "Estimated Time of Arrival"...


"Edited to add". Or at least, that's what I've been reading it as and it always seems to fit.

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Re: Word Time!

Postby BlitzGirl » Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:47 pm UTC

AluisioASG wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:And thanks to AluisioASG, Angelastic, ucim, k.bookbinder, mscha, and everyone else for the response to the Ikea ottification. :)

Did I respond?

You posted this immediately after I posted the ottification, so I counted it:
AluisioASG, Newpage 1024: wrote:@BlitzGirl: neat

Wowterful ottifications of your own, too! Very 3!

AluisioASG wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:Aha! I figured it out:
Spoiler:
Image

Pirate Squirpy needed a new telescope!

There should be a ‘Captain’ in there somewhere.

Quite right. Captain Jack Squirpy.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby k.bookbinder » Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:50 pm UTC

sford wrote:
Arky wrote:ETA: ...


Ok, I give up. I see it everywhere, but I don't read carefully enough to have seen an explanation anywhere. I looked in the wiki's abbreviations and glossary, and I don't see it. I assume it's not "Estimated Time of Arrival"...


Edited To Add :)

@AluisioASG I had already made an OTTification of Around the World. But your OTTification of Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger is different than...um...I forget who already did that one. Was not me.

Question: If the air is different, then why does it seem that Megan is not similarly affected? Or perhaps she is but isn't letting on that she is having issues. As for the idea that we have not seen enough of their journey to account for the elevation change, and perhaps they are much higher up than we at first have thought, that does, in my mind, present us with another issue. Let us assume that they have reached an altitude where altitude sickness may become an issue, and breathing becomes more difficult. So far as we can tell, then have been walking, more or less, in a straight line. In other words, nothing indicates that they are walking upwards around the mountain. They are merely walking up it. So, can we estimate the grade at which we have seen them walking, assuming some elevation which one might experience respiratory issues due to lack of oxygen, and by doing so estimate the size of the mountain?

ETA: ETA explanation ninja'd
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Postby Eternal Density » Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:58 pm UTC

A couple of manips:
Image
Image
redundant:
Spoiler:
really.
39497562.jpg
39497562.jpg (37.6 KiB) Viewed 13602 times

lookout.png

Also I fixed my sig misattribution. Sorry for the mixup, I have no idea how that happened.
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Postby Eternal Density » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:02 am UTC

My ONG is cooler.
Image
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:03 am UTC

Nice manips, Eternal Density! :D

And it's cooler again. Definitely. Definitely cooler.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ZoomanSP » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:08 am UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:
AluisioASG wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:Aha! I figured it out:
Spoiler:
Image

Pirate Squirpy needed a new telescope!

There should be a ‘Captain’ in there somewhere.

Quite right. Captain Jack Squirpy.

And now he's inside the bucket back at the beach, sailing the seven seas1!
Wait on.

Image
Spoiler:
Kieryn wrote:They have a culture involving hat wearing. What kind of a collective would come up with such a thing!?
BlitzGirl wrote:I'll get the razor and finish off Occam while we're at it.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby AluisioASG » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:10 am UTC

k.bookbinder wrote:@AluisioASG I had already made an OTTification of Around the World. But your OTTification of Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger is different than...um...I forget who already did that one. Was not me.

Consider it the live version (except the live version has only 8 lines, and I needed more).
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Postby Eternal Density » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:13 am UTC

k.bookbinder wrote:@AluisioASG I had already made an OTTification of Around the World. But your OTTification of Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger is different than...um...I forget who already did that one. Was not me.
Well whaddaya know, it was me!
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby xpatiate » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:15 am UTC

cellocgw wrote:And just wondering, but since Cuegan clearly are aware of the existence of lots of other people at various points pre-beach, and we know they have a home, does their civilisation consider an absence of many (local) days nothing unusual, or are C & M ( if you write "M & C" I only can think of 'milk and cookies') mildly sociopathic and don't care if their relatives / clanmates don't know where they are all this .. err... Time?


Yes I was wondering the same thing. Or more specifically, whether Cuegan live somewhat independently of the other established communities, perhaps because they prefer to stay close to the shore even in the dry season when the river doesn't reach the sea. (Possibly necessitating use of the steam bottle (ugh).)

Great work on the viewer, mscha! And I really love the site icon, as pointed out by Spaceman Spiff (great username, Spaceman, though I cannot prevent my brain from reading it with an extra letter ;) ).

ETA:
suzi wrote:I think, regardless of when/where this takes place, part of what GLR is doing is showing us what it feels like to have a world without information.

Cueball and Megan are obviously observant, intelligent, and resourceful humans, but they don't have exactly those resources we are frantically using to piece together their world. We have access to information that they don't have, but it's nothing we know inherently. If you had never been told about shortness of breath at a high altitude, or never seen a bird feeding chicks before, and never had access to that information in a form other than observation, we would be where Cuegan is (are?).


Yes I agree, and part of the enjoyment is watching them building their understanding out of observation. But part of the mystery is why don't they have this information? If they had been living this way in this place for any length of time, with little technology to aid them, they would have a very detailed understanding of the natural world and how it works, far surpassing our own. The way they talk makes it seem like they just dropped onto the beach out of nowhere, with no history or context to their existence.
Last edited by xpatiate on Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:40 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Ximenez » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:25 am UTC

"Glinting", "definitely".

Surely in high altitude Megan learned more difficult words.
I thought the same about Cueball's "structure", many newpix ago.

Yeah. Wow.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby buffygirl » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:27 am UTC

ChronosDragon wrote:
sford wrote:<snip>They're in a huge cave system and like to suspend themselves upside down. The "sea" and "rivers" were just air. That's why it tasted so bad to them. The reason the "sea" level is rising is that it is actually falling very quickly, allowing more and more air to enter the cave system. Probably somebody pulled the drain plug. As they climb the "mountain", they're actually going deeper in the sea. Out of breath? O2 levels fall as you go deeper.

DON'T YOU SEE??? IT ALL FITS!!!!!!!

What about the stars huh? HUH? DIDN'T THINK SO!

Ha, that's actually one of the most creative theories I've heard yet, semencancercoffeebaconbabiesonice notwithstanding. But do mer-people have legs? I thought they all had weird fish tails or fins coming off of their heads

I agree with ChronosDragon -- One of the most creative conceptualizations yet! I like it!

k.bookbinder wrote:We have established that the GLR wills it so that we do not see certain events which may be experienced by Cuegan. We did not see them sleep, before, because it was deemed unnecessary. Therefore, I do not think it is unreasonable to assume that there are portions of the journey which we do not see (as has already been suggested). They may have climbed much higher than our stitching shows.

Another theory is that their caloric intake is insufficient. We have not seen them eat very much but then again, see above. However, perhaps we have not seen them eat very much because, well, they are not eating very much. If so, exhaustion could be setting in. Malnutrition can lead to shortness of breath.

Thanks for the TdF update Charlie!

Ok, Here's my Occam's razor -- GLR is simply telling us that they are at altitude - and we are meant to suspend our disbelief. Maybe it's that simple.

suzi wrote:I think, regardless of when/where this takes place, part of what GLR is doing is showing us what it feels like to have a world without information.
Spoiler:
Cueball and Megan are obviously observant, intelligent, and resourceful humans, but they don't have exactly those resources we are frantically using to piece together their world. We have access to information that they don't have, but it's nothing we know inherently. If you had never been told about shortness of breath at a high altitude, or never seen a bird feeding chicks before, and never had access to that information in a form other than observation, we would be where Cuegan is (are?).

He's giving us something entirely from scratch, and through hints and the characters' observations we have to build a context. By building context, we're hyper-aware of the context, and hyper-aware of what we have to do to build the context. Eesh.

I feel like the questions in the OTT have gone from "how is the OTC created" -> "what's going to happen" -> "where in space/time are they and how is the story going to tell us this"

I'm not educated enough in the language of philosophy and whatnot to be more coherent about this but it's been floating around in my head for a little while now. Something about the altitude conversation set me off, haha.

YES! This!

AluisioASG wrote:
buffygirl wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:A newpix of whiteness for the lost Sandcastle. Image

Awww! That's the saddest little mini-icon-anim I've ever seen!

I agree. It also took too much of my time.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Valarya » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:27 am UTC

Neat!

Just finished my post-heretical vacation condimenting. Loved the 'Oh me yarm's' around the fade and the neat lil bucket-floaty animation. So sad to see nothing of the sand castle remains, but we've gotten a lot of new info, huh?!

Their home is where the sandcastle was. Maybe their home is flooded now, too.. and maybe the sea doesn't usually rise this far else they'd have known about it before now. What could be causing it other than more Rivers dumping in to the sea.. or tides?

Aaaand good job, Cueball. It's definitely different up here. 8-)

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Whizbang » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:32 am UTC

What if the other people are actually sheeple?

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Wake them up

Postby AluisioASG » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:37 am UTC

Whizbang wrote:What if the other people are actually sheeple?

Well, it's the fourth time I do this (but the first in this new version), but anyway, here we go:

MOLPY DOWN, SHEEPLE!
MOLPY DOWN, SHEEPLE!
MOLPY DOWN, SHEEPLE!
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Ximenez » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:39 am UTC

Exodies wrote:
pelrigg wrote:Another reply from out of the Black.

Good catch to all on the meteor. Especially from not one, but two new posters (both of whom had hash tags to throw in). And a special call-out to the moderator who got them out of queue so fast: [Edit in: and were able to join the fray in real time]
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So welcome to both with a big bang.

Is there any way to check and see if there have been any other meteors tonight?

{P972}Perhaps these two meteorologists are part of Grandall's team of elves. He's sent them to alert us to the show.

I bring this back because I believe it's the one and only proof that GLR was here. It's obvious that somebody with moderator (or higher) privileges created both accounts: otherwise, the messages wouldn't have appeared in real time. Could have been somebody else, but why would a moderator create new accounts other than to hide their identity?

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:39 am UTC

³ otticfications, AluisioASG! Image

k.bookbinder wrote:@AluisioASG I had already made an OTTification of Around the World. But your OTTification of Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger is different than...um...I forget who already did that one. Was not me.

Eternal Density already owned up, but that's what we have a wiki for. Image

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ETA: Molpy down!
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ZoomanSP » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:54 am UTC

Valarya wrote:
Spoiler:
Neat!

Just finished my post-heretical vacation condimenting. Loved the 'Gee Willikers's' around the fade and the neat lil bucket-floaty animation. So sad to see nothing of the sand castle remains, but we've gotten a lot of new info, huh?!

Their home is where the sandcastle was. Maybe their home is flooded now, too.. and maybe the sea doesn't usually rise this far else they'd have known about it before now. What could be causing it other than more Rivers dumping in to the sea.. or tides?

Aaaand good job, Cueball. It's definitely different up here. 8-)

In memory of our lost sandcastle but the floaty bucket.. I give you a sandy-looking cupcake:
Image

It's good to be back.
It's good to have you back!
Spoiler:
Image
We ran out of cupcakes. :wink:
Wait on.

Image
Spoiler:
Kieryn wrote:They have a culture involving hat wearing. What kind of a collective would come up with such a thing!?
BlitzGirl wrote:I'll get the razor and finish off Occam while we're at it.
ucim / Megan wrote:"It can do whatever it wants. It's the OTT."

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Wildhound » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:00 am UTC

NOTHONG

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Arky » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:18 am UTC

xpatiate wrote:Yes I agree, and part of the enjoyment is watching them building their understanding out of observation. But part of the mystery is why don't they have this information? If they had been living this way in this place for any length of time, with little technology to aid them, they would have a very detailed understanding of the natural world and how it works, far surpassing our own. The way they talk makes it seem like they just dropped onto the beach out of nowhere, with no history or context to their existence.


It certainly seems like they had never previously been more than a day's walk from their home prior to this journey, and perhaps they have always been held back by their tribe or community, what with the hints in dialogue about no-one seeing them and wanting to live in such an empty area.
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DOH!

Postby sford » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:22 am UTC

Regarding ETA:
marchlight wrote:"Edited to add". Or at least, that's what I've been reading it as and it always seems to fit.


Thanks!

*blush*

Whoda thought it would be a *common* abbreviation, explained in any number of places.

I guess this is yet another application of Occam's Razor.

Back on topic: according to http://xkcd.aubronwood.com/?i=2257&playing=0 Cueball had to look fairly hard to find something to wrap Megan's leg. Does that mean they're nude? Or just that Cueball didn't want to wreck his shirt when he knew the flag was somewhere? I note that they didn't mention any thing about Lucky ripping up their clothes. Maybe stick figures don't need them; their surface area to volume ratio is zero over zero for most of their bodies, although I'm not sure what that means for heat loss. But their heads are spheres and they can lose heat there. Hence the occasional use of hats.

Or maybe they're in swimming suits from having been on the beach.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jjjdavidson » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:24 am UTC

suzi wrote:
Spoiler:
I think, regardless of when/where this takes place, part of what GLR is doing is showing us what it feels like to have a world without information. Cueball and Megan are obviously observant, intelligent, and resourceful humans, but they don't have exactly those resources we are frantically using to piece together their world. We have access to information that they don't have, but it's nothing we know inherently. If you had never been told about shortness of breath at a high altitude, or never seen a bird feeding chicks before, and never had access to that information in a form other than observation, we would be where Cuegan is (are?).
He's giving us something entirely from scratch, and through hints and the characters' observations we have to build a context. By building context, we're hyper-aware of the context, and hyper-aware of what we have to do to build the context. Eesh.

I feel like the questions in the OTT have gone from "how is the OTC created" -> "what's going to happen" -> "where in space/time are they and how is the story going to tell us this"

I like the way you put this. We have all become hyper-aware of not just the context and how we're analyzing the context, but of the medium itself, our analysis of the medium, the meta-discussion within the OTT, the relationships between the Waiters and their perceptions of the OTC ─ and every way all of these things change when something (like the raptorcat or the sunset) comes along to force us to rebuild our context around the new data. It's a fascinating, and Time-consuming, process.

Valarya wrote:In memory of our lost sandcastle but the floaty bucket.. I give you a sandy-looking cupcake:
Spoiler:
Image

[offtopic]This image threw me a serious curve. I've been struggling through H. Rider Haggard's Ayesha: The Return of She (the book isn't hard; finding the time to read is), and all I could see in this photo was the volcano with the monumental stone ankh on its rim. It took a real mental effort to see this as a child's toy.[/offtopic]
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Rule110 » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:25 am UTC

k.bookbinder wrote:Question: If the air is different, then why does it seem that Megan is not similarly affected? Or perhaps she is but isn't letting on that she is having issues. As for the idea that we have not seen enough of their journey to account for the elevation change, and perhaps they are much higher up than we at first have thought, that does, in my mind, present us with another issue. Let us assume that they have reached an altitude where altitude sickness may become an issue, and breathing becomes more difficult. So far as we can tell, then have been walking, more or less, in a straight line. In other words, nothing indicates that they are walking upwards around the mountain. They are merely walking up it. So, can we estimate the grade at which we have seen them walking, assuming some elevation which one might experience respiratory issues due to lack of oxygen, and by doing so estimate the size of the mountain?


They're both affected; Megan says "I'm feeling it [being out of breath] too."

However, there's a big span between feeling a little out of breath during continued exertion, and being at risk of altitude sickness (which begins at about 10,000 feet for out-of-shape tourists but very few healthy young adults will experience it at that altitude). Professional athletes competing in Denver often take measures (such as traveling to the city early to adjust) to compensate in their training because the city's altitude can noticeably affect their performance. A business traveler from a coastal city to Denver would likely not notice this, unless she has to run after a bus or something. Someone who is doing moderately strenuous exercise but who's in very good shape to begin with might not notice either. It's one of many factors that can affect how out of breath someone feels.

Higher up, the effect becomes more readily noticeable (but still well below altitude sickness altitudes), such that a hiker even on only slightly sloping or moderately rugged terrain, who has arrived at that altitude over several days giving some time to adjust, would still feel the difference. That seems to be Megan and Cueball's situation. Charlie_grumbles and I both made off-the-cuff handwave estimates of how high Megan and Cueball are based on comparing what they say and what we see with personal experience (and perhaps with charlie's knowledge of mountain cycling). I said about 8000 ft. and he said somewhat over 9000 ft.; those estimates are certainly within one another's error bars.

However, my overall impression has been of a smaller mountain than that, even assuming as I do that we're only seeing vignettes of their travel rather than a continuous panorama. The overall steepness of the slopes (not very steep at all), the vegetation changes and temperature changes (noticeable but not very dramatic despite apparently being at a temperate latitude), the general lack of cliffs, scree, boulders, long slopes at 70% grade or more, steep shoulders (say, 300 consecutive feet of 100%+ grade), or other major obstacles suggests a smaller mountain, or if it's big, one that sprawls very wide. It doesn't seem like the Rockies, for instance.

Mountains of 8000 or 9000 feet only a few days' walk from sea level should be notable, even if it's not the usual sea level. Unless it's a dramatically lower sea level, but that would be hard to explain while still having tropical climate at 40 degrees latitude.
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Re: Starting the Cueganid

Postby AnotherKevin » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:33 am UTC

Rule110 wrote:
AnotherKevin wrote:I came out of coma with Latin hexameters in my head.

Ah, that kind of thing happens to you too? Some of the verses from some of my filks (especially Madagascarville and I've Got a Theory) wouldn't leave me alone until I wrote the rest.

Anyone else want to help work out how Virgil might have told the story of Time?

[This post is edited now: with scansion I was obsessing:
Latin hexameters filled my head as I came out of coma.
Would others care to assist in a better pastiche of old Virgil?]

You've done a really excellent job, you either have quite a knack for this or you spent a lot of time on word choices (or both). The rhyme is smoothly unforced as a result.

It's been a long time since I read Virgil (and only in translation, and probably only excerpts; my teachers consigned him to a distant orbit around Homer). But it appears what you wrote would fit the expectations for a prologue, and as such doesn't appear to need any changes. So, what would be your plan for continuing from there? Should the main body start in media res and document their adventures scene by scene? Padding out with detailed "donning their armor" scenes isn't likely to work here, but two hundred verses describing a sand castle ("many were its towers and battlements: firstly the northmost turret grand / with crenellations that numbered four, and walls of finest feldspar sand...") should be quite do-able, if anyone would ever want to read it...

Spoiler:
Megan and Cueball I sing, forced by the Sea's big expansion,
And by the pen of great Randall, fleeing their sandcastle mansion,
Trekking off to the unknown, far tracing the Sea's northern shore,
Then up the banks of the River, long days their backpacks they bore,
And in the meowlpy encounter, ere they won through to the summit,
Ere the brave Megan's stick thwacked and the meowlpy ran fast away from it,
Wounds she sustained, and so Cueball, resourceful though far he did roam,
Bound up her stick with a flag he had brought to remind them of home,
Where la Petite had appeared, conveying an aura of myst'ry,
Clouding the fate of their castle, and setting the scene for this hist'ry.

Muse! Now tell us the meaning: the purpose and cause let us know
For the tall wowtrees and meowlpies that never together did grow:
For the bright stars that now show us the wanderers temperate clime,
And by their Polar precession, place us in a far-future Time
Relate now to us the cause of the water's unfortunate rising:
Tell us who built the vineyard and left the shack so surprising!
But to Waiters' minds, admonition appears, still compelling:
"Wait for it" is the command: Randall nothing further is telling.

Awww... thanks for the compliments!

These two stanzas were written to parallel fairly closely the prologue of the Æneid, but there's no reason to keep that up - at nearly ten thousand lines, that would be even more of a work than the OTC! (Even those of us who like Virgil don't wish there were more of him!)

Anyway, hexameters in English don't wear well for a long piece. Iambic pentameter can flow endlessly, but dactyls (spondees and trochees allowed for the middle feet, and a trochee at the end) just don't fit the rhythm of English. I'm sure that's why Dryden did his massive translation in heroic couplets.

Did you ever notice that you can sing the Æneid to the tune of Stars and Stripes Forever? "ARma virVMqve caNO, troiÆ qui PRImas ab ORis..." (If you didn't, I apologize; you'll never see Latin hexameters the same way again!

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Re: Starting the Cueganid

Postby sford » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:42 am UTC

AnotherKevin wrote:Did you ever notice that you can sing the Æneid to the tune of Stars and Stripes Forever? "ARma virVMqve caNO, troiÆ qui PRImas ab ORis..." (If you didn't, I apologize; you'll never see Latin hexameters the same way again!

Ceterum censeo: Cartaginem delendam esse!


I love this place. (I hope this doesn't count as a double post...)

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It was time to go adventuring again!

Postby Eternal Density » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:57 am UTC

Wildhound wrote:NOTHONG
That's easily fixed...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Vytron » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:58 am UTC

- Blindpost 978 -

akacat wrote:Personally, I find the random chirping far less difficult to read than the footnotes that have entirely replaced words. Sorry, but my memory just isn't that good. So I'm left replacing every unworded footnote with "neat".


Oh. Maybe it's because they haven't been made morable to you, so here's this one: whenever I use the 0 footnote, it stands for awesome :)

Falalalala chupachabra ping pong ball!*

*and that's the anchor.
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Today Agatha wanted to come too.

Postby Eternal Density » Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:01 am UTC

We walk alONG
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby AnotherKevin » Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:03 am UTC

Rule110 wrote:However, there's a big span between feeling a little out of breath during continued exertion, and being at risk of altitude sickness (which begins at about 10,000 feet for out-of-shape tourists but very few healthy young adults will experience it at that altitude). Professional athletes competing in Denver often take measures (such as traveling to the city early to adjust) to compensate in their training because the city's altitude can noticeably affect their performance. A business traveler from a coastal city to Denver would likely not notice this, unless she has to run after a bus or something. Someone who is doing moderately strenuous exercise but who's in very good shape to begin with might not notice either. It's one of many factors that can affect how out of breath someone feels.


True enough, although acclimation to the altitude is considerably more important than conditioning - at least once acute mountain sickness comes into the picture. Conditioning doesn't help in avoiding AMS symptoms; only acclimation (or to a lesser extent, drugs such as acetazolamide) does.

Rule110 wrote:Higher up, the effect becomes more readily noticeable (but still well below altitude sickness altitudes), such that a hiker even on only slightly sloping or moderately rugged terrain, who has arrived at that altitude over several days giving some time to adjust, would still feel the difference. That seems to be Megan and Cueball's situation. Charlie_grumbles and I both made off-the-cuff handwave estimates of how high Megan and Cueball are based on comparing what they say and what we see with personal experience (and perhaps with charlie's knowledge of mountain cycling). I said about 8000 ft. and he said somewhat over 9000 ft.; those estimates are certainly within one another's error bars.

I'll enter a third voice confirming. I did some hiking in the West in my younger days , although now I live in country where we don't do high altitude - treeline is about 4200-4500 feet around here). If not acclimated, I'd be hurting at 8500 feet, and even with acclimation, I'd feel the elevation. Much lower, and I wouldn't notice. I certainly don't notice it on 4500 foot peaks around here. One of the biggest hiking mistakes I ever made was going to 12,500 once, when acclimated to Phoenix. From that time, I can tell you what acute mountain sickness is like.
Rule110 wrote:However, my overall impression has been of a smaller mountain than that, even assuming as I do that we're only seeing vignettes of their travel rather than a continuous panorama. The overall steepness of the slopes (not very steep at all), the vegetation changes and temperature changes (noticeable but not very dramatic despite apparently being at a temperate latitude), the general lack of cliffs, scree, boulders, long slopes at 70% grade or more, steep shoulders (say, 300 consecutive feet of 100%+ grade), or other major obstacles suggests a smaller mountain, or if it's big, one that sprawls very wide. It doesn't seem like the Rockies, for instance.

Unless they've been following a trail! I've been on trails in the West that went quite high, but were graded for livestock right up to the treeline and above. They'd skirt along edging up the talus gradually, and would get really steep only once they hit the headwalls below the high passes. You could take a mule a considerable distance up. (And those last climbs might well call for crampons and ice axe even at high summer.)
Rule110 wrote:Mountains of 8000 or 9000 feet only a few days' walk from sea level should be notable, even if it's not the usual sea level. Unless it's a dramatically lower sea level, but that would be hard to explain while still having tropical climate at 40 degrees latitude.

Hmm. Again. the Pacific coast comes to mind. Is a 300 foot rise in the sea level plausible? That would flood the San Joaquin valley at least as far as Modesto, and Yosemite would be about the right distance from there.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby suzi » Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:03 am UTC

jjjdavidson wrote:
Spoiler:
suzi wrote:I think, regardless of when/where this takes place, part of what GLR is doing is showing us what it feels like to have a world without information. Cueball and Megan are obviously observant, intelligent, and resourceful humans, but they don't have exactly those resources we are frantically using to piece together their world. We have access to information that they don't have, but it's nothing we know inherently. If you had never been told about shortness of breath at a high altitude, or never seen a bird feeding chicks before, and never had access to that information in a form other than observation, we would be where Cuegan is (are?).He's giving us something entirely from scratch, and through hints and the characters' observations we have to build a context. By building context, we're hyper-aware of the context, and hyper-aware of what we have to do to build the context. Eesh.

I feel like the questions in the OTT have gone from "how is the OTC created" -> "what's going to happen" -> "where in space/time are they and how is the story going to tell us this"


I like the way you put this. We have all become hyper-aware of not just the context and how we're analyzing the context, but of the medium itself, our analysis of the medium, the meta-discussion within the OTT, the relationships between the Waiters and their perceptions of the OTC ─ and every way all of these things change when something (like the raptorcat or the sunset) comes along to force us to rebuild our context around the new data. It's a fascinating, and Time-consuming, process.



Yes! I always hesitate to use the word "meta," but I think this is an interesting case where the OTC is not traditionally "meta" (like Grendel for instance) but the discussion itself is. As we ask questions and seek answers using the internet and our amassed knowledge, and create memes of a religion to organize our findings, we are illustrating the difference between the unknowing travelers without context, and our infinite context as applied to their world, aware the entire time that we're doing it. Most media is full of allusions and links to things that the reader/viewer then puts in a known context. Here there is nothing. Is it our job, are we intended by GLR to find out what's going on, or are we doing it because we don't know what else to do with the OTC? Both, I think.

Also, somewhere in the OTT relatively "recently" there was discussion of how the OTC is meant to be consumed, and I definitely think this slow meta-discussion is the intended format, and not a slow-reveal that is more like a flip book at the end (as a counter example, take a webcomic with finite story arcs, like Bad Machinery. John Allison always says at the end of a story to go back and read from the beginning as intended, instead of page by page over the weeks. A sensible instruction for a narrative work. "Sensible" and "narrative" being two words I hesitate to attach to the OTC).

So rarely can we find an experience that is unique, and once consumed, gone forever. I know technically the image files will still exist, as will the OTT, but it's this sleuthing and analysis with absolutely no idea of the end product that makes it a "live-only" event.

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Re: :(

Postby Vytron » Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:10 am UTC

- Blidpost -

Oh my BlitzGirl, BlitzGirl!

BlitzGirl wrote:Image


That's my favorite picture posted in the entire thread, you never cease to amaze me! D'aaaawwwwww!
Go! Go! You can do it username5243!
Cheers Marsh'n!

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THANKS KARHELL!! :)

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby lgw » Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:14 am UTC

Well all this ruins my theory, unless: If you were used to living 1 mile below sea level, would you be out of breath if you climbed to sea level? :?: Seems unlikely.

Maybe this was discussed far upthread, but just stumbled on it, and it seemed to presage the OTC: http://xkcd.com/1017/ Wow.
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400th post ketchup!

Postby yappobiscuits » Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:18 am UTC

Image
What have I missed… Towers! Telescope-ish thing that might be a weapon! Far away people! Brief cuts to buckets on seas!

Tatiana wrote:Yappobiscuits, I'm curious. What's the OtherForum that you've made good IRL friends on? Mine was Hatrack River, the forum of the writer Orson Scott Card, but it's been much less cool these last 8 years or so. It was great from about 1995 to 2005. I made many close friends there and we traveled to meetups and stuff.

The forum of Nightwish (Finnish symphonic metal band). As with your OtherForum, it's gone to the dogs a bit lately, most of my closest friends have left and there's only a few of us still posting there (even I don't post so regularly now). But I mainly keep in touch with the friends I made there via facebook and occasionally real life if we get the chance to meet up, which we try to at least once a year.

marchlight wrote:Blitzgirl and Yappobiscuits: thanks for the amazing ottifications. I'm a little embarrassed to admit how emotional I got listening to yappo's song and looking through blitzgirl's 1k image. We've all gone through a lot together, and I admire your creativity and talent.

Aww, thanks :mrgreen:

k.bookbinder wrote:Hm. The object could be a Great Theodolite.
Spoiler:
Image

Eep, all these gorgeous old scientific instruments give me quite the steampunkboner...

BlitzGirl wrote:7, okay, I see the whole thing differently now:
Spoiler:
Image

Image, 3!

Valarya wrote:
yappobiscuits wrote:Present present time! :mrgreen: Extended version including the second comic as well as the first.

mp3 download also available.

I know this is 16 pages old by now.. and who knows what awesome stuff may have come after it, but I'm stuck here in the past - having been at Sea World for the past 12 hours... and just had to say AWEFULSOME JOB AGAIN YAPPO! :mrgreen:

Thanks :mrgreen: ...Sea World? Is that a big place?

ucim wrote:
Act 1, scene 15


Spoiler:
at rise: the campsite of the Timewaiters. Flat ground, mountains in the background. Upstage, the front of BlitzGirl's large tent, draped with a pink feather boa. The (closed) entrance flap is large, in keeping with the tent. Outside the tent is a stand which holds a lance with a long banner on the end of it, a shield emblazoned with a symmetric serif cross, and a bright silver helmet adorned with a large pink flowing tuft that matches the boa decorating the tent. It is early evening.

BlitzGirl emerges from the tent, regally dressed in bright chain battle armor.
SONG: Onward!
(music to follow - I'm having some trouble with Rosegarden)
BlitzGirl wrote:The time has come, the waiting now is ending.
... Matters must be taken well in hand.
Molpy up my Knights Temporal
Fill the air with verses choral
Gird your loins! The battle's moral!

Onward, Onwards! Onward, molpy army! Come!
The Knights Temporal enter from both sides. They are each in festive armor with lance and shield similar to the ones in front of BlitzGirl's tent. As they sing the next verse, the Knights Temporal retrieve cages of molpies from BlitzGirl's tents and lay them out on the ground, readying them for release. They also bring out a desk and a swiveling desk chair, and set up a command post outside the tent, a bit stage left of center stage.
The Knights Temporal wrote:We come to you, apocalypse impending
... Ready now to follow your command.
Lead us on to greater glory
that our children tell the story
of the battle, grim and gory!

Onward, Onwards! Onward molpy army! Run!
BlitzGirl takes her place at the command post, standing in behind the desk.
The Knights Temporal wrote:By your command, from molpycats defending
... the very ground upon which we all stand
BlitzGirl wrote:Your devotion is outstanding
Give me action! I'm demanding!
The Knights Temporal wrote:with the storyline expanding, lead us...
BlitzGirl and The Knights Temporal wrote:Onward, Onwards! Onward molpy army!
BlitzGirl wrote:It's begun!


BlitzGirl sits in the swiveling desk chair and pushes off towards center stage, spinning in the chair as she does so.
Shouting as she spins in her chair, BlitzGirl wrote:Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war!
On that command, the Knights Temporal release the cage latches, and the molpies all spring out.

curtain.

============
From: producer@riverishTheaterByTheBig.org
to: director@ActsOfClerics.org
Subject: molpies
Whose chirping idea was it to use actual live rowrmolpies and compys and keyboards in your production???? I have seventeen audience members in the hospital, plus your music director, who bore the brunt of the... "activity", on stage left. Twenty four others will only talk to me through lawyers, and the press is wondering if this is the new "3D of theater".

============
From: director@ActsOfClerics.org
To: producer@riverishTheaterByTheBig.org
Subject: RE: molpies
There's no such thing as bad publicity in show biz. Anyway, the scene just didn't work with stuffed animals on springs. What kind of crazy suggestion was that? it's supposed to be believable. And while I'm at it, why does the movie department get all the neat special effects, and we are stuck with imbeciles who can't tell the difference between a sound cue and a light cue? It was the end of the act - we have an entire intermission to clean up. Yes, it is too bad about the music director. I expect you are out finding another one for next week's performances?

============
From: producer@riverishTheaterByTheBig.org
To: director@ActsOfClerics.org
Subject: RE: molpies

> It's supposed to be believable.


If you want believable, see attached. Those are the doctor bills so far. I thought you learned your lesson after the kettledrum incident. As for the music director, that will be a bit of a problem. The orchestra is demanding hazardous duty pay, and I'm having a hard time finding conductors that are also lion tamers. It's not a popular combination.

============
From: stagemanager@ActsOfClerics.org
To: producer@riverishTheaterByTheBig.org
Subject: RE: molpies

> ...after the kettledrum incident

That's totally not fair. Our entire budget for sets was a hundred dollars. The script called for climbable trees, and you wouldn't shell out the money for anything more than cardboard and a tippy chair! A hundred dollars wouldn't even pay for the perrier they spill on the movie set over at MGM. Get some money from the motion picture division and apply it to the stage version, then we'll talk.

> ...finding conductors that are also lion tamers...
What's a "lion"?

============
From: AOC@MolpyGoldwinMayor.com
To: stagemanager@ActsOfClerics.org
CC: producer@riverishTheaterByTheBig.org, staff@ActsOfClerics.org
Subject: RE: fwd: re: molpies

> A hundred dollars wouldn't even pay for the perrier they spill on the movie set.

What of it? What would you have us drink, tap water? This is the movies. Remember, when we do something on the film set, it's enshrined in celluloid for millions of people worldwide, not to mention the TV, DVD, and youtube rights. It has to envelop the viewer or it won't sell. No money, no movie. Your theater, if you don't mind my saying, holds a hundred people at a time. It's quaint, but hardly a megamoneymaker. There's just no comparison.

I've attached a bottle of Perrier. Have a party! (That is, if your staff can figure out how to open it!

============
From: producer@riverishTheaterByTheBig.org
To: AOC@MolpyGoldwinMayor.com
Subject: can you read?
Quaint?? Have you ever been to a live theater? Or read a book?

============
From: AOC@MolpyGoldwinMayor.com
To: research@MolpyGoldwinMayor.com
Subject: fwd: can you read:
What's a book?
==== begin forwarded message ====
From: producer@ riverishTheaterByTheBig.org
To: AOC@ MolpyGoldwinMayor.com
Subject: can you read?
Quaint?? Have you ever been to a live theater? Or read a book?


=============
FROM: producer@rive
[connection lost]
Jose

Image Fantastic! I really love how creative you are with the medium in which you present the story - from regular prose to screenplays and now email conversations! Makes it all the more engaging and fun. :mrgreen:

BlitzGirl wrote:
AnotherKevin wrote:<snip> The first tower that we saw didn't appear to have a mast for a light or any kind of daymark. We seem to have learnt, though, that the telescope was removed (likely stolen - if the surveyors removed it, why didn't they remove the even more expensive and fragile circles?). Perhaps there was a central mast affixed to the inner tower that was also removed.

Aha! I figured it out:
Spoiler:
Image

Pirate Squirpy needed a new telescope!

Eee, Squirpirate! This would be an appropriate time to link to a song I wrote about OTTER pirates :mrgreen:

BlitzGirl wrote:
cellocgw wrote:<snip> And just wondering, but since Cuegan clearly are aware of the existence of lots of other people at various points pre-beach, and we know they have a home, does their civilisation consider an absence of many (local) days nothing unusual, or are C & M ( if you write "M & C" I only can think of 'milk and cookies')...

Image

Image, Neat! I could make a dirty joke about dunking cookies in milk but I'm FAR too mature for that of course Image

Well, it's been a long journey in the outside to get back home, and a long journey on the inside to get back to the present. And now that I've arrived in both cases, time to molpy down. G'night all!
Image

Redundant
Spoiler:
redundakitty5.jpg

400ketchup.png
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Goggalor » Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:27 am UTC

Rule110 wrote:<snip>
They're both affected; Megan says "I'm feeling it [being out of breath] too."

However, there's a big span between feeling a little out of breath during continued exertion, and being at risk of altitude sickness (which begins at about 10,000 feet for out-of-shape tourists but very few healthy young adults will experience it at that altitude). Professional athletes competing in Denver often take measures (such as traveling to the city early to adjust) to compensate in their training because the city's altitude can noticeably affect their performance. A business traveler from a coastal city to Denver would likely not notice this, unless she has to run after a bus or something. Someone who is doing moderately strenuous exercise but who's in very good shape to begin with might not notice either. It's one of many factors that can affect how out of breath someone feels.

<snip>

I haven't had time to ketchup since todip has been a little rough for me due to getting laid off at work (it's not a huge deal, so no worries), but anyways, has anyone speculated that Earth's (or whatever planet Cuegan is on) atmosphere isn't the same as our current day atmosphere? Maybe there's a lower amount of oxygen leading to altitude sickness occurring at lower altitudes?

EDIT for papal decree: I don't keep up with it much at all, but sometimes I'll put it on for background noise and wind up getting really into it.
Last edited by Goggalor on Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:31 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby CameronCat » Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:28 am UTC

Time Foundation, Time Foundation. CameronCat to Time Foundation; BlackCat flight--tail number ... errh, it doesn't seem to have one -- reporting at Beacon Alpha, NP1003. Did pre-flight at Chapel near Aubron Wood and departed NP 996 at 7pm local, this date. Navigating VFR/seat of the pants due to occasional instrument loss from heavy thunderstorms in vicinity. (Power went out twice.) Presently at cruise level but below best speed due to crew fatigue from 4 days in Outside world. (Tired, sunburned, worn out and quite chuffed at a volunteer job well done.)

Pilot reports (PIREPS): Observed massive celebration in area of NP 1000. Congrats to all and sorry to miss it.
Spoiler:
BlitzGirl: Your excellent work is beyond superlatives. Your sufficiently developed technology IS indistinguishable from magic. And thank you for including a wee black cat in the panorama. You are an honored and respected Elder in the Cathedral and a most deserving mome/meme/mopey-popey.


PIREP: Memes noted in area:
Spoiler:
BytEfLUSh wrote:Has anyone noticed the correlation of various Internet memes with this thread? Internet memes are formed with millions of people spreading the jargon, catch-phrases, video and audio clips....However, here, there are only cca 1200 people that have posted in OTT and the vast majority of them aren't around anymore. I am not even a regular, yet I understand all the "funny" words and I'd be surprised if someone didn't.


Interesting you should notice...I was thinking the same thing when BlitzGirl wrote:
So I scooped up images from my Boom De Yadas and all the manips I had made and saved, then got a bunch of avatars from recent newpages, then scanned for avatars that were buffyhatted or memorable from my Quest, then collected the smileys made by yappobiscuits for OTTers, plus Vytron's smileys of the Time trio, tossed in a few stickottifications from my unreleased Past Present and several squirpy silhouettes from my screenshots, jumbled all of that together, and just barely finished in Time.


I realized after passing it that NO ONE who is not a member of our faith community would have a clue in hell what that meant if they read it! Yet the congregation understood it instantly and without blinking. And I am not a regular either.


PIREP: Unusual music heard over comms vicinity NP1002. Slightly clipped British accent, easy beat, plenty of boom de yadas. Loved it.
Spoiler:
Yappo, brilliant work and a lot of fun. Well done the both of you.


PIREP: Navigating memory lane
Spoiler:
I was (and remain) a 3x/wip visitor to the Other Comic. I caught one of the first few revelations of Time, and like many others stepped into the Tabernacle to receive instruction on What It Might Mean. I found the teaching interesting and instructive and have continued in attendance ever since.


BlackCat flight departing Beacon Alpha for Present via checkpoints Blintz and Coma. Will report next beacon when encountered.

Out. (Cats always want out...)
Last edited by CameronCat on Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:29 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Ashaman » Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:29 am UTC

AnotherKevin wrote:Hmm. Again. the Pacific coast comes to mind. Is a 300 foot rise in the sea level plausible? That would flood the San Joaquin valley at least as far as Modesto, and Yosemite would be about the right distance from there.

From the global warming sea level map I just linked to, a 200 feet rise is towards the upper limit based on melting ice and sea water expansion, 300 feet would seem to be too much to expect. But even 200 feet would flood most of that valley.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby yappobiscuits » Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:36 am UTC

CameronCat wrote:PIREP: Unusual music heard over comms vicinity NP1002. Slightly clipped British accent, easy beat, plenty of boom de yadas. Loved it.
Spoiler:
Yappo, brilliant work and a lot of fun. Well done the both of you.


Thanks :mrgreen:
But what do you mean by "clipped"? Do you mean the audio is clipping (i.e. distorted)? Because I try hard to avoid that :?

ETA: Papal decree: 'Ave a banana!*

*To be read in a cockney accent

And now I'm really actually going to coma for reals this time.
Image
Last edited by yappobiscuits on Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:41 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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AluisioASG
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Re: 400th post ketchup!

Postby AluisioASG » Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:40 am UTC

yappobiscuits wrote:<snip>

Thanks for testing my Cake Time script for me.
This is the result of my search for "400 cake":
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Randallspeed on your blitz, january1may! Save the Present!


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