1190: "Time"

This forum is for the individual discussion thread that goes with each new comic.

Moderators: Moderators General, Prelates, Magistrates

Tom17
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:23 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Tom17 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:35 pm UTC

BlueCrab wrote:Thank you! Once again an otter has helped me fix a glitch in my worldview. The idea that an infinite universe would contain various obnoxious scenarios has always really bothered me. The possibility for horrors still exist, of course, but they're not guaranteed by the very definition of the universe.


On a similar note, there is something I have pondered for years now. Pretty much any obnoxious scenario/scene can be portrayed in a black & white (I used to Ponder 256 bit colour, but B&W suffices for this thought experiment) image of relatively low resolution. For the sake of argument, we can choose the OTC format of 553 x 395 pixels. We can also assume 2 colours, black and white. This ignores things like anti-aliasing and fades, but they are not needed to convey a point. 2 colours should do it and where they do fall short, there is always dithering.

So that's 218435 pixels, each of which has 2 values. That's 2218,435. It is an EXCEEDONGLY large number; Our visible universe only has ~ 1080 or 2265.8 (How do you do that conversion? I trial & errored it with a calculator) atoms.

Yes, this number is horrifically large, but the point is, it's finite!

In this finite number of possible images, you have every perceivable thing. You have the next NewPix. You have every NewPix that has been. You have every new pix there will be. You have every newpix there could be. You have every simple black & white comic there ever has or will be. You have every (crudely displayed) image of every thing there ever has been or ever will be, every image of every thing that will never be. Every QR code, therefore every piece of encoded text, therefore snippets from every book that has ever been or will be, in every language percievable.

Basically, everything. All in a finite number.

A whole HUGE chunk of those images will just be random noise. The number would be a whole lot smaller if you could remove those from the list. Each one of those images you imagined and could not imagine, also comes in 'inverted', upside down, mirrored, rotated through 180 degrees. Upside down and inverted, etc etc etc. There is a lot of chuff that could be mathematically removed to make this number smaller.

This actually hurts my head. I tried working out the number once, but eventually gave up when I realized the sheer scale of things here :)

Yes, there are some things that would hold too much info to fit into an image that size, but, then all you need to do is split it up into 553 x 395 chunks and *each* one of those chunks will be included in the list of possible images...

*headsplode*

ETA. OH! I am pagepope! Uhhmmm, by papal decree, tell us about something that boggles your mind!
Last edited by Tom17 on Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:53 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
NoMouse
Posts: 727
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:05 pm UTC
Location: Czech Republic

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NoMouse » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:38 pm UTC

mscha wrote:Happy 200th, NoMouse!
Spoiler:
Image

Awww, thanks! Wait... 6? In what numeral system is that? :mrgreen:

ETA: Ok, I was thinking in what numeral system 6 equals 200 in decimal. I realized that in no system. 6 is always 6, am I right?
ETA2: I mean 6 can't stand for anything else than 6. Of course 6 could be written as 10, 11, 12, 20 or 110 in base 6, 5, 4, 3 or 2 respectively. In base > 6 it's always 6.
Last edited by NoMouse on Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:50 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Time. The final frontier. These are the voyages of Cueball and Megan. Its continuing mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before.

User avatar
nerdsniped
Posts: 159
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 6:06 am UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby nerdsniped » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:43 pm UTC

Tom17 wrote:
BlueCrab wrote:Thank you! Once again an otter has helped me fix a glitch in my worldview. The idea that an infinite universe would contain various obnoxious scenarios has always really bothered me. The possibility for horrors still exist, of course, but they're not guaranteed by the very definition of the universe.


On a similar note, there is something I have pondered for years now. Pretty much any obnoxious scenario/scene can be portrayed in a black & white (I used to Ponder 256 bit colour, but B&W suffices for this thougth experiment) image of relatively low resolution. For the sake of argument, we can choose the OTC format of 553 x 395 pixels. We can also assume 2 colours, black and white. This ignores things like anti-aliasing and fades, but they are not needed to convey a point. 2 colours should do it and where they do fall short, there is always dithering.

So that's 218435 pixels, each of which has 2 values. That's 2218,435. It is an EXCEEDONGLY large number; Our visible universe only has ~ 1080 or 2265.8 (How do you do that conversion? I trial & errored it with a calculator).

Yes, this number is horrifically large, but the point is, it's finite!

In this finite number of possible images, you have every perceivable thing. You have the next NewPix. You have every NewPix. You have every new pix there will be. You have every newpix there could be. You have every simple black & white comic there ever has or will be. You have every (crudely displayed) image of every thing there ever has been or ever will be, every image of every thing that will never be. Every QR code, therefore every piece of encoded text, therefore snippets from every book that has ever been or will be, in every language percievable.

Basically, everything. All in a finite number.

A whole HUGE chunk of those images will just be random noise. The number would be a whole lot smaller if you could remove those from the list. Each one of those images you imagined and could not imagine, also comes in 'inverted', upside down, mirrored, rotated through 180 degrees. Upside down and inverted, etc etc etc. There is a lot of chuff that could be mathematically removed to make this number smaller.

This actually hurts my head. I tried working out the number once, but eventually gave up when I realized the sheer scale of things here :)

Yes, there are some things that would hold too much info to fit into an image that size, but, then all you need to do is split it up into 553 x 395 chunks and *each* one of those chunks will be included in the list of possible images...

*headsplode*

Nicely said, and I'll just add: yes, headsplode is the correct answer (though I'm not quite certain of the question).

Also, to turn 1080 into 2something, you compute 80 * log(10) / log(2). Pasting that into Google gives your answer (well actually 265.754247591, but your answer is correct to as many decimal places as are useful). It might help to think of this as a unit conversion. To convert feet into inches, you multiply by the size of a foot divided by the size of an inch. To convert magnitude-base-10 into magnitude-base-2, you multiply by the "size" of a 10 divided by the "size" of a 2. Here, the relevant unit of "size" is the logarithm, as the logarithm effectively measures how much "multiplicative power" a number has.
New to the Time thread? Click here!

"we are dangerously close to answers. Let's hope they lead to more questions..." -- HES

"Expect friskiness." -- keithl

User avatar
Dracomax
Posts: 998
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:11 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Dracomax » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:43 pm UTC

I have a new theory as to where Cuegan are...
Image
“have i gone mad?
im afraid so, but let me tell you something, the best people usualy are.”
― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

User avatar
SBN
Saved
Posts: 2236
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:15 pm UTC
Location: No longer in the home of the raptorcats, now in the home of the raptorcats.

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SBN » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:44 pm UTC

taixzo wrote:
Flotter wrote:What if everything takes place on MarsNew Netherlands?


I'd like to point out two of the alt-texts from this what-if:
Spoiler:
Instead of Earth ocean, portal contained bobcat. Would not buy again.

Zoom in. Enhance.

It's all related!


My personal favorite:
What do I have against Curiosity? Well, I'm working for the Cat.
astrotter wrote:It is not particularly clear to me at this time that we are not overanalyzing this...

Randalspeed thunk, iskinner, and other blitzers! Notes from the before-was improve the after-when.
Some Ways to Time
NetWeasel wrote:I want to put that in my sig... BUT I CAN'T!!!!

User avatar
mikrit
Posts: 402
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:13 pm UTC
Location: Sweden

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mikrit » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:46 pm UTC

I keep thinking that the meeting with the Great Sage will go like this:

Great Sage: "I am the Great Sage and I shall answer three questions."
Cueball: "Are you the Great Sage?"
Great Sage: "Yes."
Cueball: "You are?"
Great Sage: "Yes."
Cueball: "Really?"
Great Sage: "Yes."
Beanie guard: "42BcG, Wågh7 Pt." ("That's it, now you can leave.")

Thus ends Time.

Adapted from a Simpsons episode.
Hatted and wimpled by ergman.
Dubbed "First and Eldest of Ottificators" by svenman.
Febrion wrote: "etc" is latin for "this would look better with more examples, but I can't think of any".

User avatar
Angelastic
Posts: 700
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:36 am UTC
Location: .at (let's see what's through here!)
Contact:

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Angelastic » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:47 pm UTC

There's a SpikedMath comic relevant to the aleph-Null bills thing, and another one relevant to Tom17's post.

It's all related. Even the OtherOtherComics.

By the way, I can relate to the not-being-sure-castles-are-real thing. Castles, like bears, fairies, squirrels, unicorns, beavers, chipmunks, snow, witches and swallows, belong in fairy tales. But this reminds me of this one time when I followed a river from Lake Brienz, looking for the other lake, and unexpectedly came across a castle instead. It was pretty wowterful. Later I remembered that I had actually read about that castle beforehand, and promptly forgotten about it without even taking note of where it was because I could tell it was way too far to walk. (Valarya, I’ve been to Chillon too! And it was such a beautiful day, but unfortunately my camera was broken.)
Knight Temporal, and Archdeacon of buttermongery and ham and cheese sandwiches. Nobody sells butter except through me.
Image Smiley by yappobiscuits. Avatar by GLR, buffygirl, BlitzGirl & mscha, with cari.j.elliot's idea.
Haiku Detector
starts a trend to make way for
my robot army.

User avatar
Whizbang
The Best Reporter
Posts: 2238
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:50 pm UTC
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Whizbang » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:48 pm UTC

Dracomax wrote:I have a new theory as to where Cuegan are...
Spoiler:
Image


Nice... Can we get a Cueball icon with a whip, please?

User avatar
ucim
Posts: 6890
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:23 pm UTC
Location: The One True Thread

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ucim » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:54 pm UTC

Adding my voice to the pile:
Sample Cueball dialog from several frames - reference wiki dialog page
frame.seq: 414.1, 562.1, 562.1, 563.1, 640.1, 641.1, 659.1
xkcd1.mp3
(342.53 KiB) Downloaded 354 times


@BlitzGirl Thank you so much for the sand BlitzRocket! Awesomeful! (I wonder if there's a sandHAL in it!)

@yappobiscuts I love your painting "The World of Time", and your Iron Seawolf is beyond awesome! (I feel very riverish next to something like that!) I do play (with) a few instruments (piano, guitar, hammer dulcimer, accordion) but I wouldn't call what I do "music" (I was once nominated as the ideal musician for deaf people). I used to sing in choir also; my voice is one that needs a big chorus before it sounds good. :) While I'm on voices, you do a nice Cueball.

BlueCrab wrote:Ucim, you've got me swearing in Ottish now; something in my head gave way when the Pope wrote: Molpy-chirping mustard. Best scene yet!
OTT: 1
Brain: 0
:)

@Latent22: Nice voice for the OTT; perhaps a bit strong for Cueball but I think the Beanies should also be voiced, not played as instruments. There is a language there, and it should be represented properly. I'd say you'd do a nice Beanie - it would be nice to get some guesses of what Beanish might sound like once we have a bit more to work with.

SinusPi wrote:I might have a little cautious revelation.
Image

Note the AM2. It was used in G2806 and exclaimed by Beanette in G2842. Could we have Beanie1's name here?
Great job on this, and a well done presentation too. Makes it so easy to see the correlations.

Tom17 wrote:In this finite number of possible images, you have every perceivable thing. You have the next NewPix. You have every NewPix. You have every new pix there will be. You have every newpix there could be. You have every simple black & white comic there ever has or will be. You have every (crudely displayed) image of every thing there ever has been or ever will be, every image of every thing that will never be. Every QR code, therefore every piece of encoded text, therefore snippets from every book that has ever been or will be, in every language percievable.
Yes, but some of those different things will be represented identically. So, are they different? Really?

Tom17 wrote:Yes, this number is horrifically large, but the point is, it's finite!
Have you heard of uncomputable numbers?
Spoiler:
(a little over half the way down): The Busy Beaver sequence is non-computable, solely because it grows stupendously fast—too fast for any computer to keep up with it, even in principle.
That makes my head asplode... that there are numbers which are finite but still unreachable.

Jose
Order of the Sillies, Honoris Causam - bestowed by charlie_grumbles on NP 859 * OTTscar winner: Wordsmith - bestowed by yappobiscuts and the OTT on NP 1832 * Ecclesiastical Calendar of the Order of the Holy Contradiction * Heartfelt thanks from addams and from me - you really made a difference.

User avatar
taixzo
Posts: 1623
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:54 am UTC
Location: The Present

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby taixzo » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:54 pm UTC

Angelastic wrote:There's a SpikedMath comic relevant to the aleph-Null bills thing, and another one relevant to Tom17's post.

It's all related. Even the OtherOtherComics.

By the way, I can relate to the not-being-sure-castles-are-real thing. Castles, like bears, fairies, squirrels, unicorns, beavers, chipmunks, snow, witches and swallows, belong in fairy tales. But this reminds me of this one time when I followed a river from Lake Brienz, looking for the other lake, and unexpectedly came across a castle instead. It was pretty wowterful. Later I remembered that I had actually read about that castle beforehand, and promptly forgotten about it without even taking note of where it was because I could tell it was way too far to walk. (Valarya, I’ve been to Chillon too! And it was such a beautiful day, but unfortunately my camera was broken.)


...I thought squirrels were everywhere except Madagascar?
BlitzGirl the Next
BlitzGirl the Fast
Knight Temporal
Bringer of the Light

Useless utilities: Newpix clock for Mac OS, Newpix clock for Ubuntu

Sandgarden - a relaxing experience for Time Waiters

Best wishes to GnomeAnne, Vytron, ColletArrow and january1may! One day you will all join me in the Present!

User avatar
fhorn
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:07 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby fhorn » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:57 pm UTC

a homemade ketchup recipe (which I made the other dix and hoo boy is it good
OMR. What a mornix. *happy dance for all the musicians who have exposed revealed themselves!
musician commentaries ahead:
Spoiler:
Valarya wrote:*ahem* Hi. *shakes your hand* I'm a trumpet player. I'm better than you. :P jk jk - but I laughed. My daughter is 12 and sits 1st chair French Horn so we're a happy lil brass family. Brass is always better.. oops, did I do it again? :mrgreen:

I'm married to a trumpet player (we met in our brass quintet in college) so am very familiar with the syndrome! If I see yet another mouthpiece lying around...
Kazza3 wrote:Very nice. Limitations of movable do, never!

Until you start trying to sight-sing Bartok and beyond :shock:
yappobiscuits wrote:And yay, I played trumpet for a very brief period but stopped because it was too hard on my lungs and I often felt faint from playing... I'll stick to all the many various other instruments I still play :P. But, as a composer of epic orchestral music, I'll naturally always favour the french horn :P

Kazza3 wrote:Very nice, but it needs more horn rips! :D

Love, love, love Yappo's epic orchestral music selection, but Kazza3, doesn't it always???!? :twisted:
yappobiscuits wrote:BWARP! :P

It's funny b/c it's true. :oops:
lmjb1964 wrote:Another musician joke, told to me by a trumpet player:
Q: What does a trumpet player use for contraception?
A: His personality.

AHAHAHAHHAHHAHA totally lost it on this one.
NoMouse wrote:Oh hey, hi! Maybe you're better than me but I'm better than you too! :mrgreen: Yes, trumpet player here. How many musicians are there in the OTT anyway? Maybe we could form OTB - The One True Band. :lol:

We're a little heavy on the high brass but what the hell... we could totally play the soundtrack to the movie.


LOVING the math lessons... TIL about infinity and Aleph-Null day. Woo-hoo! To infinity and beyond!
LOVING the voice samples. I can't decide whose I prefer, there are strengths and weaknesses all around. However - mscha, you're selling yourself short, very intriguing sample - please record again, more lines this time!

On the subject of mopey wolpies:
Spoiler:
SBN wrote:Revelation:
I have a mopey wolpy this morning. Her favorite person in the world isn't home. She keeps looking, but to no avail, he's gone for the day. Everyone should be loved the way she loves him. (But maybe with less drool.) I'm the largest wolpy's favorite, but he's less demonstrative. Comes from needing to try several times before he found his forever home. I'm also pretty confident that he'd throw me over in a heartbeat if there was a child he could own. Smallest wolpy's favorite is away until probably Christmas, since her summer job and college are both six states away. (And, due to that unfortunate gravity surge, they can't even Skype.)

Newfies are particularly loyal, attached wolpies, aren't they? Good luck distracting your pack. My rescue wolpy has extreme separation anxiety, which is a problem almost everywhere but the park - if she's off squirlpy chasing, I can always count on her to come right back!
"...or I shall have to find Chekov myself, and shoot him with his own damn gun" - k.bookbinder
unteaching is the hardest teaching

User avatar
NetWeasel
Posts: 297
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:08 pm UTC
Location: South Carolina, USA

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:58 pm UTC

Tom17 wrote:
Spoiler:
On a similar note, there is something I have pondered for years now. Pretty much any obnoxious scenario/scene can be portrayed in a black & white (I used to Ponder 256 bit colour, but B&W suffices for this thought experiment) image of relatively low resolution. For the sake of argument, we can choose the OTC format of 553 x 395 pixels. We can also assume 2 colours, black and white. This ignores things like anti-aliasing and fades, but they are not needed to convey a point. 2 colours should do it and where they do fall short, there is always dithering.

So that's 218435 pixels, each of which has 2 values. That's 2218,435. It is an EXCEEDONGLY large number; Our visible universe only has ~ 1080 or 2265.8 (How do you do that conversion? I trial & errored it with a calculator) atoms.

Yes, this number is horrifically large, but the point is, it's finite!

In this finite number of possible images, you have every perceivable thing. You have the next NewPix. You have every NewPix that has been. You have every new pix there will be. You have every newpix there could be. You have every simple black & white comic there ever has or will be. You have every (crudely displayed) image of every thing there ever has been or ever will be, every image of every thing that will never be. Every QR code, therefore every piece of encoded text, therefore snippets from every book that has ever been or will be, in every language percievable.

Basically, everything. All in a finite number.

A whole HUGE chunk of those images will just be random noise. The number would be a whole lot smaller if you could remove those from the list. Each one of those images you imagined and could not imagine, also comes in 'inverted', upside down, mirrored, rotated through 180 degrees. Upside down and inverted, etc etc etc. There is a lot of chuff that could be mathematically removed to make this number smaller.

This actually hurts my head. I tried working out the number once, but eventually gave up when I realized the sheer scale of things here :)

Yes, there are some things that would hold too much info to fit into an image that size, but, then all you need to do is split it up into 553 x 395 chunks and *each* one of those chunks will be included in the list of possible images...

*headsplode*


ETA. OH! I am pagepope! Uhhmmm, by papal decree, tell us about something that boggles your mind!

There was once a story written in which mathematicians were examining pi. as they went out, they started finding encoded images of what they (in the story) were calling "images from God."

However, in current mathematical theory, if you go out far enough into the digits of pi, or e, or several other numbers, you will find encoded within, every frame of every single drawing GLR has ever made, or ever will make.

You just have to go out far enough.
Remember waiting a half hour for one darkening pixel? Pepperidge Farms remembers...
Note To Blitzers:It is advisable NOT to go past page 1130 until you've seen up to frame 2900 (Geekwagon Numbering). A lot is happening, and really, you do not want to skip ahead at that point.

User avatar
mikro2nd
Posts: 174
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:52 pm UTC
Location: ɐɔıɹɟɐ

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mikro2nd » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:59 pm UTC

Whizbang wrote:Nice... Can we get a Cueball icon with a whip, please?

What? You want to go from mere hand-holding straight to whips, chains and M&Ms?

for some value of "straight"... :P
One world, one soul
Time pass, the river rolls

SinusPi
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:16 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SinusPi » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:00 pm UTC

WalkONG down...
Image

User avatar
Febrion
Posts: 276
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:27 pm UTC
Location: anchored

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Febrion » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:00 pm UTC

taixzo wrote:
Flotter wrote:What if everything takes place on MarsNew Netherlands?


I'd like to point out two of the alt-texts from this what-if:
Spoiler:
Instead of Earth ocean, portal contained bobcat. Would not buy again.

Zoom in. Enhance.

It's all related!

<snip>

Now, I seem to recall people speculating about the other end of the portal from the previous What-If leading to the Curiosity. Now, did someone take that and submit it as a further What-If, did GRL pull it from the thread himself (which means he does read it, or at least browse it), or is it just another one of those coincidence things1?

BTW, only thing that would have made me LoL more would be "Instead of Earth ocean, portal contained bob-molpy"


1Which of course do not existTwo
2Just like this footnoteAleph-Null
huhwhat?
Temporal Knight Sir Junction, Lord of the Sawtooth Snap
Time flies like a River, sand flies like a Trebuchét

User avatar
foilman
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:48 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby foilman » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:02 pm UTC

Prediction: there's nothing exciting to see in the castle, Megan is just commenting on its tidiness.

User avatar
ucim
Posts: 6890
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:23 pm UTC
Location: The One True Thread

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ucim » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:03 pm UTC

foilman wrote:Prediction: there's nothing exciting to see in the castle, Megan is just commenting on its tidiness.
Prediction: it's a tree.

Jose
Order of the Sillies, Honoris Causam - bestowed by charlie_grumbles on NP 859 * OTTscar winner: Wordsmith - bestowed by yappobiscuts and the OTT on NP 1832 * Ecclesiastical Calendar of the Order of the Holy Contradiction * Heartfelt thanks from addams and from me - you really made a difference.

User avatar
Febrion
Posts: 276
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:27 pm UTC
Location: anchored

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Febrion » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:04 pm UTC

Whizbang wrote:
Dracomax wrote:I have a new theory as to where Cuegan are...
Spoiler:
Image


Nice... Can we get a Cueball icon with a whip, please?


Hmm, somehow I'd alsways pictured Megan as the one with the whip...

(also, thanks a lot, now I'm going to be humming the theme for that game all day...)
Temporal Knight Sir Junction, Lord of the Sawtooth Snap
Time flies like a River, sand flies like a Trebuchét

User avatar
cellocgw
Posts: 2067
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:40 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cellocgw » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:05 pm UTC

taixzo wrote:
...I thought squirrels were everywhere except Madagascar?


Nope. Squirrels are only found where there are dogs or people with ADD :mrgreen:
resume
Former OTTer
Vote cellocgw for President 2020. #ScienceintheWhiteHouse http://cellocgw.wordpress.com
"The Planck length is 3.81779e-33 picas." -- keithl
" Earth weighs almost exactly π milliJupiters" -- what-if #146, note 7

User avatar
Angelastic
Posts: 700
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:36 am UTC
Location: .at (let's see what's through here!)
Contact:

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Angelastic » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:06 pm UTC

taixzo wrote:
Angelastic wrote:There's a SpikedMath comic relevant to the aleph-Null bills thing, and another one relevant to Tom17's post.

It's all related. Even the OtherOtherComics.

By the way, I can relate to the not-being-sure-castles-are-real thing. Castles, like bears, fairies, squirrels, unicorns, beavers, chipmunks, snow, witches and swallows, belong in fairy tales. But this reminds me of this one time when I followed a river from Lake Brienz, looking for the other lake, and unexpectedly came across a castle instead. It was pretty wowterful. Later I remembered that I had actually read about that castle beforehand, and promptly forgotten about it without even taking note of where it was because I could tell it was way too far to walk. (Valarya, I’ve been to Chillon too! And it was such a beautiful day, but unfortunately my camera was broken.)


...I thought squirrels were everywhere except Madagascar?
Nope. ImageThere aren't any in New Zealand (whose only native land mammals are fruit bats [ETA: Hobbits are an introduced species, and they're a pain because they eat all the endangered birds]) for one thing. Probably not in Antarctica, either. :) I don't know where squirpies live though.

Also, I forgot to add groundhogs to my list of fairytale creatures. They're also known as woodchucks. How many hogs would a groundhog grind if a groundhog could grind hogs?
Knight Temporal, and Archdeacon of buttermongery and ham and cheese sandwiches. Nobody sells butter except through me.
Image Smiley by yappobiscuits. Avatar by GLR, buffygirl, BlitzGirl & mscha, with cari.j.elliot's idea.
Haiku Detector
starts a trend to make way for
my robot army.

Tom17
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:23 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Tom17 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:12 pm UTC

Angelastic wrote:There's a SpikedMath comic

Angelastic wrote:another one relevant to Tom17's post[/url]


Awesome, thanks!

I love all the comments. Yes, it's in the box :)

User avatar
taixzo
Posts: 1623
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:54 am UTC
Location: The Present

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby taixzo » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:12 pm UTC

ucim wrote:
Tom17 wrote:Yes, this number is horrifically large, but the point is, it's finite!
Have you heard of uncomputable numbers?
Spoiler:
(a little over half the way down): The Busy Beaver sequence is non-computable, solely because it grows stupendously fast—too fast for any computer to keep up with it, even in principle.
That makes my head asplode... that there are numbers which are finite but still unreachable.

Jose


Busy Beaver numbers are just too big for my head to get a sense of their size. But I can almost barely wrap my head around Graham's Number (partly because I discovered the Ackermann function [or more precisely, hyperoperations] myself when I was smaller, when I was wondering what would come after multiplication and exponentiation). And the Ackermann function is girnormously huge, and Graham's number is made by calling the Ackermann function recursively, and wow.

...That's about where my brain opens up for a second, gives me a glimpse of perspective, and then falls out onto the floor in a puddle.
BlitzGirl the Next
BlitzGirl the Fast
Knight Temporal
Bringer of the Light

Useless utilities: Newpix clock for Mac OS, Newpix clock for Ubuntu

Sandgarden - a relaxing experience for Time Waiters

Best wishes to GnomeAnne, Vytron, ColletArrow and january1may! One day you will all join me in the Present!

User avatar
Soup
Posts: 299
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:47 pm UTC
Location: The Comfy Chair

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Soup » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:14 pm UTC

For three newpix, I've been staring at/ into/ through this scene trying to decide if the shaded walls of the landings are meant to convey depth -- the stairs leading into the screen (if lit from the right-hand chamber) or out (if lit from the stairwell to the left). Or the other way 'round? No, definitely the first one. Right? :?
Waiting for it...

Go username5243, musthavebeenmykarma, Rakhal, thunk!!

User avatar
iisjreg
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:12 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby iisjreg » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:17 pm UTC

To commemorate page 1111, I present relics of eons4 ago:

Page 1:

Spoiler:
"Ultimate Page Pope": rhomboidal

rhomboidal wrote:*snip* :wink:

Title Text: Wait for it.

I have no patience for entropy.

[Note: I don't think showing the latest image is a spoiler in the typical sense, since it seems the essential idea of this epic comic of comics is that while time might appear to be a strictly linear phenomenon, its manifestation as life is actually a profoundly open, richly holistic, poly-temporal inter-creative experience with as many entry points, narratives, and interpretations as there are participants in it. The ever-flowing moment of the present is in fact a portal to all times -- a mysterious window which invites us to simultaneously invent the world as we explore it. While we personally might have different beginnings, adventures, and inevitable endings, together our searching individual journeys map the living landscape of our boundless humanity and reality.

Also, castle silhouettes look crazy cool.

Link to the wonderfulous wiki for The One True Thread.]



Image


Page 11:

Spoiler:
Page Pope: wgasa
wgasa wrote:i'm fairly sure some people have noticed but i'm not sure it's been explicitly stated. the image is changing without any need for refreshing. just people are talking about refreshing.

there's a bit of javascript (time07) that i have no idea what it does. might be something to do with it.



Image


Page 111:

Spoiler:
Page Pope: HAL9000

HAL9000 wrote:
kryton wrote:@Aubron - I'm on an iPad-1, I have no arrow keys to step through the pix, help?

I was on an iPad earlier. just set the speed slow enough, I guess. Other than that, there's not much you can do.
Speed controls are at the top right.


Image


page 1111:

Spoiler:
Page Pope: Tom17

Tom17 wrote:
BlueCrab wrote:Thank you! Once again an otter has helped me fix a glitch in my worldview. The idea that an infinite universe would contain various obnoxious scenarios has always really bothered me. The possibility for horrors still exist, of course, but they're not guaranteed by the very definition of the universe.


On a similar note, there is something I have pondered for years now. Pretty much any obnoxious scenario/scene can be portrayed in a black & white (I used to Ponder 256 bit colour, but B&W suffices for this thought experiment) image of relatively low resolution. For the sake of argument, we can choose the OTC format of 553 x 395 pixels. We can also assume 2 colours, black and white. This ignores things like anti-aliasing and fades, but they are not needed to convey a point. 2 colours should do it and where they do fall short, there is always dithering.

So that's 218435 pixels, each of which has 2 values. That's 2218,435. It is an EXCEEDONGLY large number; Our visible universe only has ~ 1080 or 2265.8 (How do you do that conversion? I trial & errored it with a calculator) atoms.

Yes, this number is horrifically large, but the point is, it's finite!

In this finite number of possible images, you have every perceivable thing. You have the next NewPix. You have every NewPix that has been. You have every new pix there will be. You have every newpix there could be. You have every simple black & white comic there ever has or will be. You have every (crudely displayed) image of every thing there ever has been or ever will be, every image of every thing that will never be. Every QR code, therefore every piece of encoded text, therefore snippets from every book that has ever been or will be, in every language percievable.

Basically, everything. All in a finite number.

A whole HUGE chunk of those images will just be random noise. The number would be a whole lot smaller if you could remove those from the list. Each one of those images you imagined and could not imagine, also comes in 'inverted', upside down, mirrored, rotated through 180 degrees. Upside down and inverted, etc etc etc. There is a lot of chuff that could be mathematically removed to make this number smaller.

This actually hurts my head. I tried working out the number once, but eventually gave up when I realized the sheer scale of things here :)

Yes, there are some things that would hold too much info to fit into an image that size, but, then all you need to do is split it up into 553 x 395 chunks and *each* one of those chunks will be included in the list of possible images...

*headsplode*

ETA. OH! I am pagepope! Uhhmmm, by papal decree, tell us about something that boggles your mind!


Image


This boggles my mind.

User avatar
charlie_grumbles
Posts: 1004
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:07 pm UTC
Location: Self Imposed Exile

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:17 pm UTC

fhorn wrote:LOVING the math lessons... TIL about infinity and Aleph-Null day. Woo-hoo! To infinity and beyond!

So, here you go. Aleph-null is normally taken as the "smallest" infinity. There are larger infinities: Aleph-one, etc. Arithmetic is a bit strange. Aleph-null plus 1 is aleph-null. But aleph-null plus aleph-null is also aleph-null. The set of all counting numbers ("natural" numbers) has size aleph-null. The set of all integers (includes negatives as well) is also aleph-null. The set of all real numbers (infinite decimals) has size aleph-one. But the set of all rational numbers (fractions, one integer divided by another) has size aleph-null again. You can do arithmetic with infinities, but it gets a little weird. Not terribly weird, but a little. Back when I studied this stuff (more than 40 years ago) it was unknown whether there is an infinity between aleph-null and aleph-one that isn't equal to either. Maybe I'll put this in the book.

On a somewhat related note. Sir Arthur Eddington postulated that the number of protons (and electrons) in the observable universe is less than 1080. So there is a physical limitation to what you can actually represent physically (within the observable universe, at least). See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddington_number,

ETA. This was my post 666 and I missed it. The post from hell, and I miss it. Damn. I was planning to do something devilish too.
Last edited by charlie_grumbles on Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:15 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Lurking. Watching. Thinking. Writing. Waiting.
-- Charlie Grumbles

Tom17
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:23 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Tom17 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:18 pm UTC

ucim wrote:Yes, but some of those different things will be represented identically. So, are they different? Really?

Represented differently, but perceived as the same thing. You can bump up the resolution and colour depth too if you like, even with a high resoltion image, it's still finite.

I really like that SpikedMath comic which adds video into the mix. It's in the box :)

User avatar
AluisioASG
Posts: 2339
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:43 am UTC
Location: Flowing into places that are comfortable for it to flow
Contact:

Long-page Ketchup

Postby AluisioASG » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:18 pm UTC

Misc stuff:
I disappear for two days, my last post mentioning TVTropes, and no one notices.
I love y'll too.

My birthday is in five days. Don't dare ending Time until then, GLR.


Replies:
BlitzGirl wrote:ETA for castle-bringing:
Image
Oh no! It's been overrun by raptorcats!

Hi there CameronCat!

yappobiscuits wrote:I had some artistic urges, so here's a present present!
<snip>

Doubleplusgood!

taixzo wrote:
mathrec wrote:
taixzo wrote:Erm. Oddly, it seems to be a very bad idea to search "leopard on keyboard" with safesearch off.

*unsee* *UNSEE*

Really, I don't think "Erm." is strong enough.

I said it was a very bad idea! Why did you do it then?

(I know, "big red 'DO NOT PUSH' button" syndrome etc.)

I almost did the same thing.

NetWeasel wrote:There was once a story written in which mathematicians were examining pi. as they went out, they started finding encoded images of what they (in the story) were calling "images from God."

However, in current mathematical theory, if you go out far enough into the digits of pi, or e, or several other numbers, you will find encoded within, every frame of every single drawing GLR has ever made, or ever will make.

You just have to go out far enough.

Kinda reminds me of Carl Sagan's Contact.


And now: cakes! It seems I've missed the whole party, uh?

mscha:
Spoiler:
Image


Eutychus:
Spoiler:
Image


ttscp:
Spoiler:
Image


pelrigg:
Spoiler:
Image


yappobiscuits:
Spoiler:
Image


BlitzGirl:
Spoiler:
Image


SBN:
Spoiler:
Image


Kazza3:
Spoiler:
Image


NoMouse:
Spoiler:
Image
Better yet:
Image
(In case you don't get it: Stargate + solar flare = time travel!)
Selecting new quote…
Can't see addams on the right? Message me!Image

User avatar
Someguy945
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:09 am UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Someguy945 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:19 pm UTC

NetWeasel wrote:However, in current mathematical theory, if you go out far enough into the digits of pi, or e, or several other numbers, you will find encoded within, every frame of every single drawing GLR has ever made, or ever will make.

You just have to go out far enough.


I thought this was an open question.

Hypothetically, it would be possible for an irrational number like pi or e to go on forever and yet NEVER have the digit "7" follow the digit "3". Or am I mistaken?

Has it been conclusively shown that any and every pattern must exist in pi?

User avatar
Angelastic
Posts: 700
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:36 am UTC
Location: .at (let's see what's through here!)
Contact:

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Angelastic » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:26 pm UTC

Someguy945 wrote:
NetWeasel wrote:However, in current mathematical theory, if you go out far enough into the digits of pi, or e, or several other numbers, you will find encoded within, every frame of every single drawing GLR has ever made, or ever will make.

You just have to go out far enough.


I thought this was an open question.

Hypothetically, it would be possible for an irrational number like pi or e to go on forever and yet NEVER have the digit "7" follow the digit "3". Or am I mistaken?

Has it been conclusively shown that any and every pattern must exist in pi?

No, it has not been conclusively shown. For that to be the case, pi would have to be normal42, and it is not known whether it is or not. But don't worry, almost all numbers are, so if you're looking for a magic number that contains life, the universe, and everyone, just pick one (not 1, or 42) and it probably will.

42Are normal numbers the next JavaScript? Is subscript the next superscript?
Knight Temporal, and Archdeacon of buttermongery and ham and cheese sandwiches. Nobody sells butter except through me.
Image Smiley by yappobiscuits. Avatar by GLR, buffygirl, BlitzGirl & mscha, with cari.j.elliot's idea.
Haiku Detector
starts a trend to make way for
my robot army.

Tom17
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:23 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Tom17 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:29 pm UTC

Someguy945 wrote:Hypothetically, it would be possible for an irrational number like pi or e to go on forever and yet NEVER have the digit "7" follow the digit "3". Or am I mistaken?

Has it been conclusively shown that any and every pattern must exist in pi?


I think that's how this started wasn't it? I can't speak for pi or e, but I think the theory goes that for an infinitely long random sequence, it never has to produce every pattern. However statistically likely (very) it is to produce a given pattern, there is no guarantee that it will actually be produced. Is this right?

This differs to my example where it isn't based on infinite random data, but iterated finite data.

User avatar
taixzo
Posts: 1623
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:54 am UTC
Location: The Present

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby taixzo » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:31 pm UTC

Someguy945 wrote:
NetWeasel wrote:However, in current mathematical theory, if you go out far enough into the digits of pi, or e, or several other numbers, you will find encoded within, every frame of every single drawing GLR has ever made, or ever will make.

You just have to go out far enough.


I thought this was an open question.

Hypothetically, it would be possible for an irrational number like pi or e to go on forever and yet NEVER have the digit "7" follow the digit "3". Or am I mistaken?

Has it been conclusively shown that any and every pattern must exist in pi?


I mentioned this earlier. If pi is normal, it will contain every sequence eventually. But, pi has not yet been proven to be normal. In fact, the only numbers we're sure are normal are constructed ones, such as 0.12345678910111213... - even though almost all numbers are normal.

ETA: nearly-identical ninja by Angelastic
BlitzGirl the Next
BlitzGirl the Fast
Knight Temporal
Bringer of the Light

Useless utilities: Newpix clock for Mac OS, Newpix clock for Ubuntu

Sandgarden - a relaxing experience for Time Waiters

Best wishes to GnomeAnne, Vytron, ColletArrow and january1may! One day you will all join me in the Present!

User avatar
Angelastic
Posts: 700
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:36 am UTC
Location: .at (let's see what's through here!)
Contact:

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Angelastic » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:41 pm UTC

charlie_grumbles wrote:Back when I studied this stuff (more than 40 years ago) it was unknown whether there is an infinity between aleph-null and aleph-one that isn't equal to either. Maybe I'll put this in the book.

It is now known that the existence of such an infinity can neither be proven nor disproven.
Knight Temporal, and Archdeacon of buttermongery and ham and cheese sandwiches. Nobody sells butter except through me.
Image Smiley by yappobiscuits. Avatar by GLR, buffygirl, BlitzGirl & mscha, with cari.j.elliot's idea.
Haiku Detector
starts a trend to make way for
my robot army.

User avatar
ucim
Posts: 6890
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:23 pm UTC
Location: The One True Thread

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ucim » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:42 pm UTC

charlie_grumbles wrote:Back when I studied this stuff (more than 40 years ago) it was unknown whether there is an infinity between aleph-null and aleph-one that isn't equal to either.
Is it known now? Or do I have to just... er... you know. (edit: the latter, of course!)
Tom17 wrote:Represented differently, but perceived as the same thing.
No, represented the same: You said
Tom17 wrote:Pretty much any obnoxious scenario/scene can be portrayed in a black & white [...]So that's 218435 pixels, each of which has 2 values.
This is a representation of the underlying reality, no? Two different underlying realities can be represented identically. Isn't that what a limit of resolution is?

Jose
Order of the Sillies, Honoris Causam - bestowed by charlie_grumbles on NP 859 * OTTscar winner: Wordsmith - bestowed by yappobiscuts and the OTT on NP 1832 * Ecclesiastical Calendar of the Order of the Holy Contradiction * Heartfelt thanks from addams and from me - you really made a difference.

User avatar
charlie_grumbles
Posts: 1004
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:07 pm UTC
Location: Self Imposed Exile

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:47 pm UTC

Tom17 wrote:I think that's how this started wasn't it? I can't speak for pi or e, but I think the theory goes that for an infinitely long random sequence, it never has to produce every pattern. However statistically likely (very) it is to produce a given pattern, there is no guarantee that it will actually be produced. Is this right?

Actually, no. If it is random and infinite, then anything that can happen will happen. But a huge sequence with no sevens will also appear of course, say ten billion digits without sevens. It would take a bias away from randomness for no sevens to appear at all. Same for any given finite sequence you could name.
Lurking. Watching. Thinking. Writing. Waiting.
-- Charlie Grumbles

User avatar
Valarya
Posts: 975
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:27 pm UTC
Location: Nashville

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Valarya » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:55 pm UTC

xpatiate wrote:
Valarya wrote:I think you sound great, yappo! Perfect 'attitude,' if that's the right word. You have my vote! Though if Cue is british, Megan will have to be also. :P

I think a British Cueball and an American Megan would be perfect :D Makes no sense geographically of course, but a wild mix of inexplicable accents never seems to bother Disney characters.

I might be biased, but I think that would be perfect. 8-)

Dracomax wrote:I have a new theory as to where Cuegan are...
Image

Hahah, this is exactly what I first thought of upon seeing the tunnel. Castlevania ftw. (Oh gods, now I'm on my favorite trip down vidya lane music. Here's a playlist I made a couple years ago if anyone wants a listen.)

@ucim: I enjoyed listening to your voice over. :) I think your range of pitch is much more Cueball but you sound a bit too happy. Haha.. I don't know why but I picture Cueball sounding a bit more melancholy. Probably just me, though. ;)

@Megan: D'awwww, cute. Your obligatory 'Neat!' <3

fhorn wrote:a homemade ketchup recipe (which I made the other dix and hoo boy is it good

Homemade Ketchup Recipe can remind me of nothing but my lovelies. Warning: Tim & Eric inside the link.
Caridnal of Cupcakes | Friaress of Frosting | Pope of Pocket Pastries
Occasional basement dweller.

Image

User avatar
edo
Posts: 436
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:05 pm UTC
Location: ~TrApPeD iN mY PhOnE~

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby edo » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:01 pm UTC

Douh! ONG
Image
Co-proprietor of a Mome and Pope Shope

User avatar
nerdsniped
Posts: 159
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 6:06 am UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby nerdsniped » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:02 pm UTC

Tom17 wrote:ETA. OH! I am pagepope! Uhhmmm, by papal decree, tell us about something that boggles your mind!

Well, my default mind boggler is the Fermi Paradox, which can be summarized as "why the hell isn't the sky full of alien civilizations"? But to pick something most people (even on this thread) probably haven't heard of, how about this. It's a computer program that, when you run it, prints another computer program. When you run *that* program, it prints another program. When you run *that* one, it prints yet another program. Repeat the process 50 times, and the last program prints bacon the original program! Oh, and all 50 programs are written in different languages, and the program itself is also ASCII art.
New to the Time thread? Click here!

"we are dangerously close to answers. Let's hope they lead to more questions..." -- HES

"Expect friskiness." -- keithl

Chinchokmataa
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 3:30 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Chinchokmataa » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:06 pm UTC

Whizbang wrote: This seems fishy to my less-educated mind. For all intents and purposes, the -3 or -6 doesn't happen. 10-3=7. In an infinite timeframe, whether you take away a specific bill on the same day you add it or a few days later, the end result is 10-3=7. If you multiply each component by infinity then 10∞ - 3∞ = 7∞. The 10∞ and the -3∞ don't even really exist. 10∞ -3∞ = 0∞ + 7∞. And 0 times anything, even ∞ equals 0. If you accept that you eventually take away all bills and are left with nothing, then you also have to accept that at the same time, you've added 2.33333... times more bills than you've taken away, leaving you with both no bills and an infinite amount of bills. But accepting the no bills remaining idea is silly and a stretch of logic, in my opinion.


So, I am definitely not an expert math person, and so definitely people should correct me if I'm wrong, but I am fairly certain that what you are doing with infinity here is mathematically unsound, as I can use basic algebra to derive from these statements a huge number of logical inconsistancies.

Let's start with 10-3=7, definitely true right?
Now we'll multiply both sides by ∞ like you've done here, so we get 10∞ - 3∞ = 7∞.
But wait! doesn't ∞ times any number simply equal infinity? sure, we can write 10∞ or 7∞, but as ∞ is an infinitely large number multiplication doesn't do anything to it, as it still ends up as ∞.
That means 10∞ - 3∞ = 7∞ is the same as ∞ - ∞ = ∞
But wait, what is ∞ - ∞? Well, any number minus itself is 0.
Therefore 0 = ∞
...Except, no it doesn't. And it is problems like this that has made mathematicians say that infinity is not a number (and therefore can't be manipulated like one).

BONUS: Guys! I found a youtube video about the paradoxes of infinity! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDl7g_2x74Q

User avatar
BlueCrab
Posts: 304
Joined: Mon May 20, 2013 12:10 am UTC
Location: Connecticut Yankee in Virginia

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlueCrab » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:06 pm UTC

Rule110, I keep forgetting to say I love your daily Blitzer Power-Ups! 8-)

yappobiscuits wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:Tangential discussion on spoilers and enjoyment:
Spoiler:
HES wrote:
Wildhound wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:If you really wanted to, you could go back and read it all over again... :D Ready, set, go!

Haha, the problem is I'm one of those people who won't watch a movie twice because I find it boring once I know what to expect.

I read somewhere that it's good for the brain precisely because you know what to expect, so it's less effort and more relaxing. Can't find the link though, so there's always the possibility that I'm making it up :roll:

I remembered a similar study, so I dug it up: http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/newsrel/soc/20 ... oilers.asp That one was done using short stories, and reached the conclusion that an audience will view the material more favorably after reading if they know what to expect from it beforehand. This is important to movie studios, who like favorable reviews, so that might explain the trailers that give away the plot (and why the same movie plots keep getting used over and over again). The commercial success of James Cameron films seems to bear this out. (Bear? Where?)


I've noticed this when it comes to long-anticipated sequels where a fan base expects one thing from the content creator, but is severely disappointed when given something unexpectedly different. In cases like that, I think a "fair warning" disclaimer is okay. Example: book with a horrible cliffhanger at the end, and no sequel. I hand this book to my friend, saying nothing. Later, she comes back and beats me over the head with it because "GAH WTC THERE'S NO ENDING!" I hand this book to a different friend, saying "Just a heads-up, it ends on a cliffhanger. But other than that, the story is brilliant and definitely worth reading." Later, she comes back and says, "I completely agree with you about the ending. It sucks. But the book is good." (This is also a case where the spoiler is general rather than specific.)

Now, all of this is talking about the reaction after consuming the media (om nom nom) which is different from the experience of reading/watching itself. Spoilers can definitely mustard up that experience. But if the reviews at the end of the day are more positive than negative ("I knew what was going to happen but I still thought the movie was decent.") the larger studios won't care. They'd like to avoid too much of the risk that comes with something "unexpected" and ensure profit.

Interesting - I think that may also explain why fans of, say, a book series react so negatively when a film/TV adaptation changes something from the book.
Erm, okay, I'll agree with that. The argument of the adapters is often that a specific part or aspect of a book couldn't be translated to a visual medium within the necessary constraints. My response is, that doesn't make it acceptable to make changes and/or omit aspects that remove the entire point of the work (I Am Legend, anybody? I, Robot? Starship Troopers?) Another of their arguments is that this isn't a remake of the book, it's their interpretation of it. My response to that is that what I want is a remake of the book, in a different medium. If you want to make your own interpretation, give it a different ch*rping title! :twisted:

On an unrelated note: A new album and a tour is coming up:
Spoiler:
The attachment vrg78.jpg is no longer available

The attachment ticket.jpg is no longer available
Oh, I want!

ZoomanSP wrote:
HES wrote:
ZoomanSP wrote:I wonder whether it was the beanies or other people that made the grapevines, the campsites, and the shack at the place of the raptorcat attack. It's quite probable that they carved the markings in the tree7, but we don't know that for sure either.


I'd say it's safe to assume so, given that no other groups of people have been introduced. (Are the beanies the 'people in the hills' or do they (hill people) account for the third (square) language Brian Blessed speaks?)

I think the 'people in the hills' are a different group than the beanies. So they might well be the squarish speaking group.
Cuegan seem to have at least some familiarity with the people in the hills, if only from the things that float down the river; they remarked on it when they came across the vinecue campfire. They didn't say anything about the Beanie's stuff being familiar, though.

fhorn wrote:they roam arONG, arONG, arONG
Spoiler:
Image

eta: How much further?

NetWeasel wrote:
sford wrote:Not much happening in OTC....

Well, that depends on whether that thing up ahead is just an odd piece of shubbery or a razorback skunk...
I thought so, too! (Well, I thought it might have a molpy under it, anyway. But it does look like a razorback smell-molpy! Or a really, really big fuzzy-sting...)

NoMouse wrote:Still walkONG
Spoiler:
Image
Edit: Doublepost? What's with you guys? Everyone in coma?
Ah, well, at least it's not a vorpal rabtor. :wink:
sford wrote:The OTC has inspired such a burst of creativity among the OTTers, that I've been making time to hang here. Not enough time - I've probably only read 20% of the posts - but the manips, the filks, the repartee that I *have* seen ... I love it. Oh, and the hats! (Just this morning I noticed BlueCrab's hat - for some reason it seems so perfect to me.) I may not be a power contributor, but I'm here for the long haul. :-)
Thanks, I love my hat, too! ergman made the avatar for me as a present-present for a random otter, and hatted it because he's cool that way! :D And you're absolutely right about the creativity among the OTTers - at least once an Outside dip I find myself cheering, applauding, and Wow-ed by something posted here.

HES wrote:ETA: It's touching 30°C here in the UK. I don't know how you OTTers in warmer climates cope
Neither do we... :(
image.jpg
Forecast 2013-07-16
This was just before noon local time (EDT) and the humidity was only 55%. I've never enjoyed being too warm, and now that I'm at the age where I'm too ch*rping warm all the time anyway.. :cry:
ETA that picture doesn't scale well - the ‘Feels like’ under the actual temperature says 106°F (41°C)
Last edited by BlueCrab on Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:11 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.
Wiki Wiki Wiki Wiki Grapevine, Grapevine

"Kvetcher-upper" -- one who complains while ketchupping? - CasCat


“Pretty much everything tastes better if you eat it in the shower.” - ggh

User avatar
NoMouse
Posts: 727
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:05 pm UTC
Location: Czech Republic

Re: Long-page Ketchup

Postby NoMouse » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:07 pm UTC

AluisioASG wrote:NoMouse:
Spoiler:
Image
Better yet:
Image
(In case you don't get it: Stargate + solar flare = time travel!)

Hah, that's funny. I actually did have a Stargate-cake for my birthday once. :D Thanks a lot!
Time. The final frontier. These are the voyages of Cueball and Megan. Its continuing mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before.


Return to “Individual XKCD Comic Threads”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 104 guests