1190: "Time"

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby thirds » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:11 pm UTC

Ketchysketchy.

Woah, seeing the new setting, I really thought we're inside an old adventure game. Yes Megan, very neat.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:13 pm UTC

Chinchokmataa wrote:So, I am definitely not an expert math person, and so definitely people should correct me if I'm wrong, but I am fairly certain that what you are doing with infinity here is mathematically unsound, as I can use basic algebra to derive from these statements a huge number of logical inconsistancies.

Let's start with 10-3=7, definitely true right?
Now we'll multiply both sides by ∞ like you've done here, so we get 10∞ - 3∞ = 7∞.
But wait! doesn't ∞ times any number simply equal infinity? sure, we can write 10∞ or 7∞, but as ∞ is an infinitely large number multiplication doesn't do anything to it, as it still ends up as ∞.
That means 10∞ - 3∞ = 7∞ is the same as ∞ - ∞ = ∞
But wait, what is ∞ - ∞? Well, any number minus itself is 0.
Therefore 0 = ∞
...Except, no it doesn't. And it is problems like this that has made mathematicians say that infinity is not a number (and therefore can't be manipulated like one).

Well, infinity (aleph-null) is a number, but one of a different kind. To answer the earlier question, it depends on what you mean by "minus". It is possible to take an infinite set (the natural numbers), remove an infinite subset (the even numbers) and be left with an infinite set.
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Re: Long-page Ketchup

Postby ttscp » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:24 pm UTC

AluisioASG wrote:Misc stuff:
I disappear for two days, my last post mentioning TVTropes, and no one notices.
I love y'll too.

My birthday is in five days. Don't dare ending Time until then, GLR.

Try not to take it personally, we do appreciate you, and your stories, and thoughts. It was just a very exciting time in the OTC and OTT and lots of stuff got missed.

AluisioASG wrote:Misc stuff:
And now: cakes! It seems I've missed the whole party, uh?
[snip](I'm only interested in mine, of course)
ttscp:
Spoiler:
Image
[snip]

Thank you. One of the things I appreciate about the OTT is that we really do value each other's contributions and celebrate with cake, cupcakes, M&Ms.... Oh wait, the M&Ms are punishment, well you know what I mean.

@charlie_grumbles, angelastic, cellogw and anyone else who knows more about this:
A long time ago (longer than Prof Grumbles 40 years), I learned about aleph-zero, etc, and the thought at that time was that aleph-zero was the integers (or rationals, etc), and, although not provable, aleph-one was the reals and aleph-two was the infinity of curves. All of that felt right to me based on Cantor diagonalsD. But I don't see any mention of the curves in the articles referenced so far. The subject has changed a lot since then, so are the curves still a larger infinity than the reals?L

DI think it was from Gamow, One, Two, Three, Infinity, but I'm not sure. I had this fuzzy feeling about the curves being more than the reals that seemed to me at the time to allow a diagonal type of argument. Not a proof, definitely not a proof, given that my fuzzy feelings have been contradicted many times over in math classes since.
LJust larger, not necessarily corresponding to aleph-threetwo. Even then it was known or speculated that there might be other infinities between the integers, reals and curves.

Edit: fix error in footnote
Last edited by ttscp on Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:59 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SBN » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:41 pm UTC

fhorn wrote:
On the subject of mopey wolpies:
Spoiler:
Newfies are particularly loyal, attached wolpies, aren't they? Good luck distracting your pack. My rescue wolpy has extreme separation anxiety, which is a problem almost everywhere but the park - if she's off squirlpy chasing, I can always count on her to come right back!

They are amazing. Fortunately largest wolpy is loyal to me, I threatened to keep getting more until one loved me best. Mopey wolpy was mine at first, but since she met the favorite, I'm only important because she knows I belong to his pack too. He's a wolpy magnet. I think half the wolpies at the park would be his if he wanted them.
And, another Obligatory PSA: http://www.newfpups.org/dont02.htm

AluisioASG wrote:M
And now: cakes! It seems I've missed the whole party, uh?

SBN:
Spoiler:
Image


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Re: Long-page Ketchup

Postby nerdsniped » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:45 pm UTC

ttscp wrote:@charlie_grumbles, angelastic, cellogw and anyone else who knows more about this:
A long time ago (longer than Prof Grumbles 40 years), I learned about aleph-zero, etc, and the thought at that time was that aleph-zero was the integers (or rationals, etc), and, although not provable, aleph-one was the reals and aleph-two was the infinity of curves. All of that felt right to me based on Cantor diagonalsD. But I don't see any mention of the curves in the articles referenced so far. The subject has changed a lot since then, so are the curves still a larger infinity than the reals?L

DI think it was from Gamow, One, Two, Three, Infinity, but I'm not sure. I had this fuzzy feeling about the curves being more than the reals that seemed to me at the time to allow a diagonal type of argument. Not a proof, definitely not a proof, given that my fuzzy feelings have been contradicted many times over in math classes since.
LJust larger, not necessarily corresponding to aleph-three. Even then it was known or speculated that there might be other infinities between the integers, reals and curves.

Hmm. I haven't really kept up with the field since taking Set Theory almost 25 years ago, but here's what I remember, augmented with a little quick Googling:

Aleph 0 is the number of natural numbers (or more properly, the cardinality of the set of natural numbers).

There seem to be two definitions for Aleph 1 in circulation. One is 2Aleph 0 (or properly, the cardinality of the set of subsets of the natural numbers). The other is "the next larger cardinality after Aleph 0". These definitions might be equivalent, but it does not seem to be possible to prove this. If you dig in, you will find a reference to something called the Continuum Hypothesis, which basically just states (without proof) that they are equivalent. Various pages I've looked at disagree as to which of the two definitions of Aleph 1 is "primary" and remains correct even if you don't assume the continuum hypothesis. Probably someone (Prof. Grumbles?) knows enough to step in and clarify that point.

Cantor showed that the number of reals is 2Aleph 0. So Aleph 1 is the number of reals, if you take that definition of Aleph 1, or if you assume the Continuum Hypothesis.

The story is similar for Aleph 2 and the infinity of curves.

ETA: if you enjoy having your mind blown, and you have the opportunity, do take Set Theory in college. It's basically Mind Blowing 301. I distinctly remember the day in class when we proved, from scratch, that 1 + 1 = 2. I also remember discussing infinities that were so large that they basically contain all of mathematics, Matrix-like, inside them. These are known as "strongly inaccessible cardinals", which is an awesome name completely independent of anything it might mean.
Last edited by nerdsniped on Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:48 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mikrit » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:48 pm UTC

There are more functions from real numbers to real numbers than there are real numbers. This can be demonstrated with a diagonal proof (but my mobile phone screen is too small for the proof).

If by "curves" you mean only continuous functions, then I am not sure.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ttscp » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:56 pm UTC

mikrit wrote:There are more functions from real numbers to real numbers than there are real numbers. This can be demonstrated with a diagonal proof (but my mobile phone screen is too small for the proof).

If by "curves" you mean only continuous functions, then I am not sure.

I remember an illustration and some of the "curves" they showed were definitely not continuous. This is a retrospective judgement, I was in grade school at the time and had not been introduced to calculus. Of course the illustrator may have just been creating curves to fit his or her fancy without regard to the actual state of the theory at the time.

I'm certain it is a marvelous proof you have discovered. You will have to record it in some other medium so it will not be lost to history.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cellocgw » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:58 pm UTC

mikrit wrote:There are more functions from real numbers to real numbers than there are real numbers. This can be demonstrated with a diagonal proof (but my mobile phone screen is too small for the proof).

If by "curves" you mean only continuous functions, then I am not sure.


There's something exquisitely funny (to me, at least) about stating that a cellphone screen (small, like the river) is too small for a proof of Aleph-2 (big, like 2^sea) .

I'd also like to apologize to all OTTers who find this sidethread about infinities either completely insane or just a waste of NP. I only wanted to post a joke... ("I started a joke, which got the whole world ..." )
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Whizbang » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:59 pm UTC

nerdsniped wrote:
Spoiler:
Whizbang wrote:This seems fishy to my less-educated mind. For all intents and purposes, the -3 or -6 doesn't happen. 10-3=7. In an infinite timeframe, whether you take away a specific bill on the same day you add it or a few days later, the end result is 10-3=7. If you multiply each component by infinity then 10∞ - 3∞ = 7∞. The 10∞ and the -3∞ don't even really exist. 10∞ -3∞ = 0∞ + 7∞. And 0 times anything, even ∞ equals 0. If you accept that you eventually take away all bills and are left with nothing, then you also have to accept that at the same time, you've added 2.33333... times more bills than you've taken away, leaving you with both no bills and an infinite amount of bills. But accepting the no bills remaining idea is silly and a stretch of logic, in my opinion.
OK, fine, so on Aleph-Null Day, you say you'll have an infinite amount of bills. Suppose that, as we went day by day, we numbered the bills. On Aleph-Null Day, let's grab one bill from your infinite pile. What number is written on that bill? No matter what number we find, a contradiction arises: there is a specific day on which that numbered bill should have been removed. So your pile must be empty.

However, your argument that the pile cannot be empty is also sound. As you say, the pile only grows, so how could it ever be empty? The resolution is that there is no such thing as Aleph-Null Day. Wait for it as long as you like; it will never arrive, we will never get to see how large the pile might have been, and the argument is moot.

ETA: maybe this will help. We effectively have two processes occurring: adding new bills to the top of the pile, and removing bills from the bottom of the pile. Say the Devil sends a pair of his minions, the Adder Imp and the Remover Imp, to perform these functions.

Now, the Adder Imp works faster than the Remover Imp, so the pile keeps growing. The conceit is that on Aleph-Null Day, both imps have had infinite time to work, and so their output becomes equal -- the Remover Imp will have removed just as many bills as the Adder Imp added, since they'll both have done "infinity". The flaw is that arithmetic simply doesn't work if you try to apply it to infinities like this. It's a bit like asking what happens when an irresistible force meets an immovable object: you can argue as much as you like, but the question was silly to begin with; if the universe contains an immovable object, then by definition it does not also contain an irresistible force.


I pondered this on lunch. Essentially, the question comes down to a bet with the devil that Aleph-Null will either never occur (or occur in an infinite number of days anyway), or it will occur on some undetermined day (it could be tomorrow or the day before the end of time). With option 2, you are saying "I believe that Aleph-Null will never come, so to avoid the paradox of Infinity, I choose the option that leaves me with infinite money on a non-existant day". Option 1 says "I HOPE that Aleph-Null will occurr in a finite number of days, so that there is no paradox and I get a potentially vast amount of money". Option 1 is really the only option to take in this scenario, as the other option means that you never get out anyway. At least option 1 has a sliver of hope that someday you'll get out. If you bet option 1 and the day never comes, you never get out. If it does, you get out (assuming the devil doesn't play some trick where the fated day is just before you'd earn enough to pay your way out, in which case neither option was a real option anyway and there is no "right" answer). Option 2, if the day occurs, you get less money than option 1 and are potentially unable to buy your way out (and why would the devil set the price so that both options generate enough to buy your way out?). If it never occurs you never get out.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SinusPi » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:00 pm UTC

LightONG!
Image

(edit) Nerdsniped is sniped. ;P
Last edited by SinusPi on Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:02 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby nerdsniped » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:00 pm UTC

Entering into infinitONG?
Spoiler:
Image

OK, not infinite, but pretty impressive nonetheless. (Or is this what the first part of infinity looks like?)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:01 pm UTC

You're in a comfortable tunnel-like hall.

Spoiler:
Last edited by mscha on Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:05 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Whizbang » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:02 pm UTC

mscha wrote:You're in a comfortable tunnel-like hall.


I check for traps in the floor.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby thirds » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:03 pm UTC

Cozy. Also extremely empty.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby fhorn » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:05 pm UTC

I totally heard organ music with this one.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby moody7277 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:06 pm UTC

Now, is Beardo going to be sitting in the big chair at the top of the stairs, on in a smaller chair at the foot of the stairs with an empty chair at the top?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Fictioneer » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:06 pm UTC

We may never get enough detail on the ceiling, but I'm choosing to believe it's vaulted. Barrel- or rib-vaulting will do me just fine.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Ximenez » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:08 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:I'd also like to apologize to all OTTers who find this sidethread about infinities either completely insane or just a waste of NP.

Completely insane. So it's business as usual for the OTT. (And I enjoy math. The crazier the better.)

Oh, and I'm a musician also (not professional, though (I'm a writer (not in English, though (maybe in Unglish (but I feel comfortable in Spanish))))).

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NoMouse » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:10 pm UTC

fhorn wrote:I totally heard organ music with this one.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby nerdsniped » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:11 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:Now, is Beardo going to be sitting in the big chair at the top of the stairs, on in a smaller chair at the foot of the stairs with an empty chair at the top?

For some reason, "sitting in a chair at the top of the stairs" took me directly to "All work and no play makes Beardo a dull boy". Now I'm frightened.

ETA: A reference to The Shining of course... I thought I remembered the desk with the typewriter being at the top of a staircase, but on checking, it appears I've scrambled the scene slightly in my head.
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Re: Long-page Ketchup

Postby NetWeasel » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:16 pm UTC

ttscp wrote:@charlie_grumbles, angelastic, cellogw and anyone else who knows more about this:
A long time ago (longer than Prof Grumbles 40 years), I learned about aleph-zero, etc, and the thought at that time was that aleph-zero was the integers (or rationals, etc), and, although not provable, aleph-one was the reals and aleph-two was the infinity of curves. All of that felt right to me based on Cantor diagonalsD. But I don't see any mention of the curves in the articles referenced so far. The subject has changed a lot since then, so are the curves still a larger infinity than the reals?

I was planning to get to this after I finished ketchupping, but --

Most of my info comes originally (from my viewpoint) from Azimov on Numbers. The set of integers is aleph-null. The set of real numbers is aleph-1 (between any two reals, there are infinite reals, not so with integers). The set of curves on a plane is aleph-2.

This is from an old book read years ago, from old memory...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ttscp » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:19 pm UTC

Ximenez wrote:
cellocgw wrote:I'd also like to apologize to all OTTers who find this sidethread about infinities either completely insane or just a waste of NP.

Completely insane. So it's business as usual for the OTT. (And I enjoy math. The crazier the better.)

Oh, and I'm a musician also (not professional, though (I'm a writer (not in English, though (maybe in Unglish (but I feel comfortable in Spanish))))).

Waste of NP might describe most of the OTTH, waiting for it means we discuss practically everything. Speaking of infinities containing everything, since everything seems to be contained or referenced within the OTT, have we proved that the cardinality of the OTT is one of the alephs?

HExcepting my particular interests. Only yours are a waste of NP.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:21 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:I'd also like to apologize to all OTTers who find this sidethread about infinities either completely insane or just a waste of NP. I only wanted to post a joke... ("I started a joke, which got the whole world ..." )

Are you saying that this could be a NewPage complete problem?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Charm Quark » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:25 pm UTC

Wow, ketchupping the last 12 hours took a full 1 hour. I am worried about the sustainability of my ketchup.

Quick notes:

This is from a while ago now, but BlitzGirl's expanding-head-man/woman blowfish comparison made me giggle at work for a full 30 seconds. I'm usually pretty good at suppressing my giggles, but I was completely powerless here. It's still hard for me to think about it without cracking a smile.

Neil_Boekend wrote:Hmm, I have still missed one EOTEOT.

The beanies are building the castle, under the command of a misguided scientist that is trying to revive his long dead wife. Queball will be forced to build the castle and the equipment. Megan will be imprisoned but not harmed. She'll be treated well, but she won't be allowed to leave the castle. She'll live in a guilded cage.
Near the end of the castle build Queball will die in a terrible accident. Megan will be protected from the grief because she wasn't allowed contact anyway. After the castle and the equipment are complete the scientist will wait for a thunderstorm to form over the mountain. The day weather.com predicts a thunderstorm he'll pump halothane in her quarters, knocking her out. He'll perform a brain transplant, implanting her brain into Megan.
He'll strap her onto his equipment and raise the lightning conductor above the castle. A thunderbolt will strike.
That thunderbolt will kill the scientist and burn Megan's body, because this story obeys the laws of physics. Thus ends Time.

Spoiler:
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EOT End Of Time


I knew there was something odd about the way you were spelling Cueball. I suddenly realized what it was two pages later.

Also, this place seems strangely deserted. Have we not seen the heart of the beanie city yet? Or is this an abandoned castle that's been occupied by a small beanie colony?
Lost forever in time...

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:27 pm UTC

Charm Quark wrote:Also, this place seems strangely deserted. ...

I'm sorry, your answers are in another castle.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Someguy945 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:27 pm UTC

fhorn wrote:I totally heard organ music with this one.


Fictioneer wrote:I'm choosing to believe it's vaulted. Barrel- or rib-vaulting will do me just fine.


Yep, the castle has an organ and it's ribbed for your enjoyment!

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby taixzo » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:28 pm UTC

ttscp wrote:
Ximenez wrote:
cellocgw wrote:I'd also like to apologize to all OTTers who find this sidethread about infinities either completely insane or just a waste of NP.

Completely insane. So it's business as usual for the OTT. (And I enjoy math. The crazier the better.)

Oh, and I'm a musician also (not professional, though (I'm a writer (not in English, though (maybe in Unglish (but I feel comfortable in Spanish))))).

Waste of NP might describe most of the OTTH, waiting for it means we discuss practically everything. Speaking of infinities containing everything, since everything seems to be contained or referenced within the OTT, have we proved that the cardinality of the OTT is one of the alephs?

HExcepting my particular interests. Only yours are a waste of NP.


The OTT doesn't contain everything! It doesn't contain, for instance, a reference to the square root of 53.

Oh wait...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby higgs-boson » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:28 pm UTC

The Great Hall is astonishingly empty. No chairs, no pews. No pictures. No machinesyes, no dwarveswell, ... no people.


yesSee here: http://cdn.fotocommunity.com/photos/6226748.jpg
wellMaybe it's better that way.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby yappobiscuits » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:28 pm UTC

Molpy up!
Oh, 7! First time we've been indoors in the OTC!
NoMouse wrote:
adnapemit wrote:I vote for yappobiscuits as the voice of cueball because I was surprised that he sounded EXACTLY(well very very close) like how I imagined Cueball sounds.
(would still like to hear other people though)
I totally agree. Also very good acting.

Thanks both of you :mrgreen:
b2bomberkrh wrote:
yappobiscuits wrote:Also, if anyone can figure out which real-world mountain I based the shape of the main one (the one with the castle) on, you get a prize (probably cake-based).


I didn't notice any responses to this, but I'm going to guess Kilimanjaro, based on the flat top. It's almost flat enough to be Ayers Rock, but I wouldn't consider that to be a mountain.

Nope. It's not that famous at all, just local to me. Which is why I consider anyone getting it to be prize worthy :P
DavidRa wrote:OK finally got a chance to record a frame - I happened to choose G#414 because it has enough words to get a proper sense of the voice.

Recording is Audacity, with noise removal (it's a silly laptop mic) and silences chopped out to make it smaller. Still better than the wireless headset I started with though!

ETA: My voice isn't normally quite that deep, I've not been talking much this afternoon though.

4, a Cueball from down under! Yeah, I like your voice :D
mscha wrote:Extra ONG...
Spoiler:
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Valarya wrote:
yappobiscuits wrote:I'll even add mine to the pile (four lines instead of just one because I'm greedy :P) although I doubt we'll end up going for a British Cueball... still, just for fun :P

I think you sound great, yappo! Perfect 'attitude,' if that's the right word. You have my vote! Though if Cue is british, Megan will have to be also. :P

Thanks! But not necessarily, I wouldn't mind a multicultural Megball!
mscha wrote:I don't sound like Cueball at all, and anyway, we can't have a Cueball with a Dutch accent. But I don't want to be a spoilsport, so here.

Heh, as has been said, I don't notice any Dutch accent. But yeah, your voice might be too deep for Cue.
ucim wrote:Adding my voice to the pile:
Sample Cueball dialog from several frames - reference wiki dialog page
frame.seq: 414.1, 562.1, 562.1, 563.1, 640.1, 641.1, 659.1
xkcd1.mp3

Great! I could see you as Cueball :D
ucim wrote:@yappobiscuts I love your painting "The World of Time", and your Iron Seawolf is beyond awesome! (I feel very riverish next to something like that!) I do play (with) a few instruments (piano, guitar, hammer dulcimer, accordion) but I wouldn't call what I do "music" (I was once nominated as the ideal musician for deaf people). I used to sing in choir also; my voice is one that needs a big chorus before it sounds good. :) While I'm on voices, you do a nice Cueball.

Thanks! And 4, I play three out of those four instruments - the only one I don't (yet) is hammered dulcimer but I REALLY want one because they're beautiful.
fhorn wrote:
yappobiscuits wrote:And yay, I played trumpet for a very brief period but stopped because it was too hard on my lungs and I often felt faint from playing... I'll stick to all the many various other instruments I still play :P. But, as a composer of epic orchestral music, I'll naturally always favour the french horn :P

Kazza3 wrote:Very nice, but it needs more horn rips! :D

Love, love, love Yappo's epic orchestral music selection, but Kazza3, doesn't it always???!? :twisted:

Thanks! It was actually the first piece I ever made using proper good orchestral samples, so I've gotten a lot better now when it comes to subtleties and extra detailing (like rips :P). Also, now I finally understand your username, fhorn :P
AluisioASG wrote:yappobiscuits:
Spoiler:
Image


Wheee! You're ultra-generous with your cakeage todip! Thanks!
SinusPi wrote:LightONG!
Spoiler:
Image


Beanie 1: Behold! The great realm of the Beanie city of Dwarrowdelf!
Megan: Well there's an eye opener and no mistake!
*This music starts playing*
Last edited by yappobiscuits on Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:35 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Ketchup

Postby BlitzGirl » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:29 pm UTC

Charm Quark wrote:Also, this place seems strangely deserted. Have we not seen the heart of the beanie city yet? Or is this an abandoned castle that's been occupied by a small beanie colony?

It might be a castle still under construction, with nobody actually living in it yet except the Beanie engineers. Glad you liked my blowfish comparison! :mrgreen:

And thanks for the cake, Aluisio! :)

SinusPi wrote:I might have a little cautious revelation.
Spoiler:
Image
Note the AM2. It was used in G2806 and exclaimed by Beanette in G2842. Could we have Beanie1's name here?

Neat! Easy to remember: Amtoo!

I think the darker rectangles in the previous newpix might have been the start of hallways rather than doors.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ttscp » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:34 pm UTC

fhorn wrote:I totally heard organ music with this one.

It is a beautiful scene. I like the way the light shimmers around the windows.

NetWeasel wrote:
Spoiler:
ttscp wrote:@charlie_grumbles, angelastic, cellogw and anyone else who knows more about this:
A long time ago (longer than Prof Grumbles 40 years), I learned about aleph-zero, etc, and the thought at that time was that aleph-zero was the integers (or rationals, etc), and, although not provable, aleph-one was the reals and aleph-two was the infinity of curves. All of that felt right to me based on Cantor diagonalsD. But I don't see any mention of the curves in the articles referenced so far. The subject has changed a lot since then, so are the curves still a larger infinity than the reals?

I was planning to get to this after I finished ketchupping, but --

Most of my info comes originally (from my viewpoint) from Azimov on Numbers. The set of integers is aleph-null. The set of real numbers is aleph-1 (between any two reals, there are infinite reals, not so with integers). The set of curves on a plane is aleph-2.

This is from an old book read years ago, from old memory...

That's the problem with infinities, they confound our understanding. There are infinite rationals between any two rationals, yet the cardinality of the rationals are aleph-0. The beauty of Cantor's Diagonal proof is that he found a way around this.

It turns out that the illustrator of One, Two, Three, Infinity was Gamow himself, so the discontinuous curves were probably deliberate.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby fhorn » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:38 pm UTC

NoMouse wrote:
fhorn wrote:I totally heard organ music with this one.

The Phaaaaaantom of the Opera is theeeere...

oh dear.... no, something a little less Andy Lloyd Webbie and a little more Widor (music starts at :15)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Moose Anus » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:39 pm UTC

I don't think Beardo is in the castle at all. The drawing shows him behind it, and maybe under?

Spoiler:
Image
Lemonade? ...Aww, ok.

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Re: Ketchup

Postby Charm Quark » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:43 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:
Charm Quark wrote:Also, this place seems strangely deserted. Have we not seen the heart of the beanie city yet? Or is this an abandoned castle that's been occupied by a small beanie colony?

It might be a castle still under construction, with nobody actually living in it yet except the Beanie engineers. Glad you liked my blowfish comparison! :mrgreen:

And thanks for the cake, Aluisio! :)

SinusPi wrote:I might have a little cautious revelation.
Spoiler:
Image
Note the AM2. It was used in G2806 and exclaimed by Beanette in G2842. Could we have Beanie1's name here?

Neat! Easy to remember: Amtoo!

I think the darker rectangles in the previous newpix might have been the start of hallways rather than doors.


It could still be under construction, but I would expect a castle like this to be surrounded by a flourishing Beanie civilization for many kiloCues in every direction. Where is everyone? If the whole civilization is on the other side of the castle, does that mean the castle is meant to protect the Beanies from some threat in the direction that Cuegan came from?

Unrelatedly, I'm too young (20*) to voice Cueball, I think. Even worse, I have a slight southern accent which is not how I imagine Cueball at all.



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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:44 pm UTC

Moose Anus wrote:I don't think Beardo is in the castle at all. The drawing shows him behind it, and maybe under?
Spoiler:
Image

You may be right... I think that fuzzy circle past the castle IS Beardo, and the lines are "equate" lines (this is this).
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Whizbang » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:50 pm UTC

NetWeasel wrote:
Moose Anus wrote:I don't think Beardo is in the castle at all. The drawing shows him behind it, and maybe under?
Spoiler:
Image

You may be right... I think that fuzzy circle past the castle IS Beardo, and the lines are "equate" lines (this is this).


Beardo is the hermit who lives in the hills... Potentially in a crystal cave.

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Re: Ketchup

Postby ttscp » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:54 pm UTC

Charm Quark wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:
Charm Quark wrote:Also, this place seems strangely deserted. Have we not seen the heart of the beanie city yet? Or is this an abandoned castle that's been occupied by a small beanie colony?

It might be a castle still under construction, with nobody actually living in it yet except the Beanie engineers.
[snip]
SinusPi wrote:[snip]
I think the darker rectangles in the previous newpix might have been the start of hallways rather than doors.


It could still be under construction, but I would expect a castle like this to be surrounded by a flourishing Beanie civilization for many kiloCues in every direction. Where is everyone? If the whole civilization is on the other side of the castle, does that mean the castle is meant to protect the Beanies from some threat in the direction that Cuegan came from?
[snip]

In mscha frame 2825 it definitely looks as if it is under construction/dismantle.
The darker rectangles in the previous newpix look like hallways to me, too.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Ximenez » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:57 pm UTC

NetWeasel wrote:
Moose Anus wrote:I don't think Beardo is in the castle at all. The drawing shows him behind it, and maybe under?
Spoiler:
Image

You may be right... I think that fuzzy circle past the castle IS Beardo, and the lines are "equate" lines (this is this).

I see Beardo behind the castle, holding a puppet way bigger than himself. The puppet is the one who does the talking.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:59 pm UTC

I'm starting to believe that the Beanies didn't build this castle. I just don't see them having the knowledge and manpower to do that, based on what we've seen. I think it might be a pre-apocalypse castle that has been rediscovered, and they're trying to restore it.

NoMouse wrote:
mscha wrote:Happy 200th, NoMouse!
Spoiler:
Image

Awww, thanks! Wait... 6? In what numeral system is that? :mrgreen:

I never noticed the 6. Image I just thought you'd like a TARDIS cake.

nerdsniped wrote:Also, to turn 1080 into 2something, you compute 80 * log(10) / log(2). Pasting that into Google gives your answer (well actually 265.754247591, but your answer is correct to as many decimal places as are useful).

If you're ever without a calculator (or Google), there's an easy way to get an approximate answer.
Note that 210 = 1024 ≈ 1000 = 103. So, 1080 = 103×26.666... = (103)26.666... ≈ (210)26.666... = 2266.66....

Febrion wrote:Now, I seem to recall people speculating about the other end of the portal from the previous What-If leading to the Curiosity. Now, did someone take that and submit it as a further What-If, did GRL pull it from the thread himself (which means he does read it, or at least browse it), or is it just another one of those coincidence things1?

Hardly a coincidence. The GLR Himself suggested Mars in part 1 of the What-If.

nerdsniped wrote:Well, my default mind boggler is the Fermi Paradox, which can be summarized as "why the hell isn't the sky full of alien civilizations"?

I just don't see a paradox. We have no idea what the odds are of intelligent life appearing on a suitable planet (Drake's equation contains way too many unknowns) – it might be just as small as the number of planets is large. (The only example we have, Earth, is hardly randomly selected.)
Say, there are 10100 suitable planets in the universe, and the chance of intelligent life appearing on any suitable planet is 10-100. Then the expected number of planets with intelligent life is exactly 1.
(Also, interstellar travel isn't, and in my belief never will be, practical. You simply won't find people willing to do it, knowing that their grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-children might reach the nearest star. Wormhole travel, warp-speed? Will stay in the domain of SF.)

nerdsniped wrote:But to pick something most people (even on this thread) probably haven't heard of, how about this. It's a computer program that, when you run it, prints another computer program. When you run *that* program, it prints another program. When you run *that* one, it prints yet another program. Repeat the process 50 times, and the last program prints bacon the original program! Oh, and all 50 programs are written in different languages, and the program itself is also ASCII art.

Wow, that is mind-boggling! I'll certainly check that out some Time.
Last edited by mscha on Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:46 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby nerdsniped » Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:00 pm UTC

Just walking farther down the hall but we all knew thatONG
Image

Still hoping this what the first part of infinity looks like... except then I guess we'd be stuck in the hallway forever

ETA: they don't seem to walk any faster on the flat floor than they do on rough ground. Or some sort of Time dilation is in effect.
Last edited by nerdsniped on Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:11 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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