1190: "Time"

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edfel
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby edfel » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:27 am UTC

Chateau d'If !

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edit: just off the coastal city of Marseille, known (in France) as being the central stage for Le Comte de Montecristo
Last edited by edfel on Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:30 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SinusPi » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:27 am UTC

robbak wrote:Does Standard Sinus Notation make a difference between right-high-curve and high dot?

Not yet, but I'm just about set on making the "hugging" right-high-curve an apostrophe ', the "horned" right-high-curve a backtick `, a high dot an asterisk *, and a low arc a comma ,. I have yet to make sense of the other variants - [X,c] or [4c*] or [`M].

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby taixzo » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:27 am UTC

irino wrote:This castle seems to be right there, especially if the beanies have imprecise mapping.


Is it the same shape?

ETA: Pope! Decree: pinpoint Cuegan's location and river!
Last edited by taixzo on Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:29 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby a_s_h_e_n » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:28 am UTC

So what caused the Mediterranean to dry up like this?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Gedeon » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:28 am UTC

taixzo wrote:
Edit: after looking at Gedeon's overlay, I'm now thinking that Mount Argentera is too far east.


Overlays may be slightly off because of different projections, but somewhere around Marseilles, I would say.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Gedeon » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:29 am UTC

a_s_h_e_n wrote:So what caused the Mediterranean to dry up like this?


Ice age? We don't really know yet, but it has happened in the past.

To think of our pretty adriatic coastline gone... :cry:

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby taixzo » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:32 am UTC

If they are in France, what does that imply for our astronomical predictions? If we have a longitude, can we work out an exact date and time?

(And then train our descendants to pass on the message so there is a meetup there 11,000 years in the future?)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby CasCat » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:32 am UTC

So, based on the excellent map-matching skills, it looks like they've walked, um, maybe 300-500 km? (Since we don't know exactly where on the coast of the dried-up-Med they started, it's hard to judge exactly.....)

Does this seem plausible?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby nickjbor » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:34 am UTC

CasCat wrote:So, based on the excellent map-matching skills, it looks like they've walked, um, maybe 300-500 km? (Since we don't know exactly where on the coast of the dried-up-Med they started, it's hard to judge exactly.....)

Does this seem plausible?


How fast can they walk do you think? I want to know when the OTC will catch up to the "real" world.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Fictioneer » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:34 am UTC

Gedeon wrote:
taixzo wrote:
Edit: after looking at Gedeon's overlay, I'm now thinking that Mount Argentera is too far east.


Overlays may be slightly off because of different projections, but somewhere around Marseilles, I would say.


Which means naming La Petite with a French name was spot on! (It's all connected.)

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby a_s_h_e_n » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:34 am UTC

Gedeon wrote:
a_s_h_e_n wrote:So what caused the Mediterranean to dry up like this?


Ice age? We don't really know yet, but it has happened in the past.

To think of our pretty adriatic coastline gone... :cry:


Next question: what do we have left to know?
    the cause of it drying up
    the time period (though I'm really leaning towards the AD 13,000 theory, I'd like confirmation)
    the fate of Cuegan's tribe
    the point of the OTC

What am I missing?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Gedeon » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:35 am UTC

taixzo wrote:If they are in France, what does that imply for our astronomical predictions? If we have a longitude, can we work out an exact date and time?

(And then train our descendants to pass on the message so there is a meetup there 11,000 years in the future?)


I think we can. Or at least I think astronomers have said that (I am no expert in this field, as you can see). :)

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:36 am UTC

Way back on {1133} Jose said:
ucim wrote:That the Cuegan people are in essence outcasts could easily create a non-romantic bond between them of the kind we are seeing. I wonder if they are like the Romanian gypsies in present-day France.

I thought a history/ethnicity lesson was appropriate here, though it doesn't affect the main thread. The Romani are not Romanian. They are descended from people from the Middle East, and earlier, India. Their history is long and complex. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people.

They actually have worldwide distribution now, including the US. They are discriminated against nearly everywhere, but, on the other hand, often make their living as thieves and pickpockets. My wife was once accosted/assaulted by a group of them (women, one with a baby). Bad behavior and extreme discrimination are probably linked, in my view. Their own language is not descended from Latin as Romanian is. I think they consider the term "Gypsies" as an insult. The article on the people, cited above, and their language (article linked from the first) is worth a quick browse.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby edfel » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:37 am UTC

I'm sticking to "Chateau d'If", on Montecarlo rock.

Point on the map: https://maps.google.fr/maps?q=chateau+d ... 90&t=h&z=6

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby robbak » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:39 am UTC

a_s_h_e_n wrote:
    the fate of Cuegan's tribe
    the point of the OTC

What am I missing?


Not much. Of course, the obvious next step is to go save the Cuegan tribe, as the castle on the high mountain is roughly sea level!

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Gedeon » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:40 am UTC

a_s_h_e_n wrote:Next question: what do we have left to know?
    the cause of it drying up
    the time period (though I'm really leaning towards the AD 13,000 theory, I'd like confirmation)
    the fate of Cuegan's tribe
    the point of the OTC

What am I missing?



As you can see in this map, Mediterranean is full of faults... a large earthquake could probably close relatively narrow and shallow Gibraltar gates... and thus Mediterranean shrinks (because it is mostly quite shallow in relation to it's size).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ean_EN.svg

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Postby Eternal Density » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:42 am UTC

Wowowowowowowow!
It seems this helps confirm what we concluded from the stars about the Time this is occurring. Neat!
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby nickjbor » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:42 am UTC

What evidence do we have that this is the future VS evidence that this is the past?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby yappobiscuits » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:43 am UTC

taixzo wrote:If they are in France, what does that imply for our astronomical predictions? If we have a longitude, can we work out an exact date and time?

(And then train our descendants to pass on the message so there is a meetup there 11,000 years in the future?)

And by that time our language will have evolved... and beanies may have come into fashion... and maybe they will meet two travellers wondering why the sea is rising...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Wildhound » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:43 am UTC

Just ketchedup after a night on the sauce and all I can say is HO. LY. SHIT.

Now to molpy down.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SinusPi » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:45 am UTC

The map sea labels, in my notation, are actually 3W,J 34'6. Neither is the expected 342bJ!

Also, someone please put that gorgeous map overlay up on Wikia... :D

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:50 am UTC

nickjbor wrote:What evidence do we have that this is the future VS evidence that this is the past?

The last filling of the Med was 5 million years ago. No castles, no buckets.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby robbak » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:50 am UTC

nickjbor wrote:What evidence do we have that this is the future VS evidence that this is the past?

Astronomical. The proper motion of the stars is wrong for any time in the past.

We can measure movements of stars. We know that, for instance, two stars are moving apart. If it was in the past, those stars would be closer together. In the night sky we saw, they are further apart. So we are sure that it is a future date. The dates we are quoting are based on that, plus matching the positions of the planets we saw with their predicted positions, and it all fits with a certain day, 11,000 years After Present. April 10th, 13291.

Now that we have our location pinned down, those numbers do not quite match. There are other possible matches in the range of ± 1000yrs - does one of them put the location on the Mediterranean shoreline, near the Italian border?
Last edited by robbak on Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:56 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Latent22 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:51 am UTC

Wow! Cool to konw where we are now.

Someone has to work out how far they have traveled now.

As to what would have caused the sea to fall I can only come up with these options for what blocked the Straight of Gibraltar:

Humans blocked it off. (Must have been Netherlanders!)
Big Earthquake.
Big Volcano.
Big Meteor strike.

The text from the OTC seems to suggest it's not human related but not sure.

One thing to note that if their were enough humans left at the time it happened we would have fixed it back up with a new river/canal to keep the water heights the same. So It means we either did this on purpose, or the event caused the fall of civilization as we know it or this had already fallen before the event.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby nickjbor » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:52 am UTC

robbak wrote:
nickjbor wrote:What evidence do we have that this is the future VS evidence that this is the past?

Astronomical. The proper motion of the stars is wrong for any time in the past.

We can measure movements of stars. We know that, for instance, two stars are moving apart. If it was in the past, those stars would be closer together. In the night sky we saw, they are further apart. So we are sure that it is a future date. The dates we are quoting are based on that, plus matching the positions of the planets we saw with their predicted positions, and it all fits with a certain day, 11,000 years After Present.


Considering how accurate the stars turned out to be, this is a convincing argument.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby taixzo » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:52 am UTC

yappobiscuits wrote:
taixzo wrote:If they are in France, what does that imply for our astronomical predictions? If we have a longitude, can we work out an exact date and time?

(And then train our descendants to pass on the message so there is a meetup there 11,000 years in the future?)

And by that time our language will have evolved... and beanies may have come into fashion... and maybe they will meet two travellers wondering why the sea is rising...


And we will preserve the OTT in books, so that someone can learn English to communicate with the travellers!
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby nickjbor » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:53 am UTC

taixzo wrote:
yappobiscuits wrote:
taixzo wrote:If they are in France, what does that imply for our astronomical predictions? If we have a longitude, can we work out an exact date and time?

(And then train our descendants to pass on the message so there is a meetup there 11,000 years in the future?)

And by that time our language will have evolved... and beanies may have come into fashion... and maybe they will meet two travellers wondering why the sea is rising...


And we will preserve the OTT in books, so that someone can learn English to communicate with the travellers!



Actually, I think they may run into this guy
Image
http://xkcd.com/1/
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby CameronCat » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:55 am UTC

Postby CasCat :

So, based on the excellent map-matching skills, it looks like they've walked, um, maybe 300-500 km? (Since we don't know exactly where on the coast of the dried-up-Med they started, it's hard to judge exactly.....)

Does this seem plausible?


It does seem plausable based on what the matched maps tell us, but the distance seems a bit low. I was just investigating that when your post showed up. If they started at Gibralter and went to roughly Marseille, it's about 1600 km / 960 mi using modern roads. If they started further inland, perhaps around Almeria, Spain and went say to Montpelier, France it's about 1500 km if you allow for a diversion into the Andorran hills or mountains.

Depending on how you count travel days, their overall speed could vary wildly. The Chapel at Aubron Wood lists today as Day 117, but we've had several days where they are in one place. We've also had several dips where they are just trudging along.

As well, their speed would be affected by terrain, food and rest periods (many assumed but unseen), molpy attacks and other factors. Fair to say though they have traveled a good distance -- several hundred miles -- since they set out.
Last edited by CameronCat on Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:58 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Gedeon » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:56 am UTC

nickjbor wrote:
robbak wrote:
nickjbor wrote:What evidence do we have that this is the future VS evidence that this is the past?

Astronomical. The proper motion of the stars is wrong for any time in the past.

We can measure movements of stars. We know that, for instance, two stars are moving apart. If it was in the past, those stars would be closer together. In the night sky we saw, they are further apart. So we are sure that it is a future date. The dates we are quoting are based on that, plus matching the positions of the planets we saw with their predicted positions, and it all fits with a certain day, 11,000 years After Present.


Considering how accurate the stars turned out to be, this is a convincing argument.


And if we add that castles, triangulation and so on didn't exist in the far past (or at least we have no evidence of it), future is pretty convincing. Castles can survive millenia...

The beanie language bothers me. They are in Europe, why does their language not resemble anything similar to european languages?
Last edited by Gedeon on Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:59 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby HereBeUnmappedBits » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:57 am UTC

Fictioneer wrote:
Gedeon wrote:
taixzo wrote:
Edit: after looking at Gedeon's overlay, I'm now thinking that Mount Argentera is too far east.


Overlays may be slightly off because of different projections, but somewhere around Marseilles, I would say.


Which means naming La Petite with a French name was spot on! (It's all connected.)


And the Tour De France discussion is in fact completely on topic!

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BytEfLUSh » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:58 am UTC

Well, it's been a nice journey. Thank you all! :)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Yuki » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:59 am UTC

The whole Mediterranean Sea thing actually pans out -- this has happened before: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanclean_flood

Wikipedia's article says that the flooding is theorized to have taken "several months to two years" -- this would certainly be consistent with what's going on here.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Fictioneer » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:00 am UTC

HereBeUnmappedBits wrote:
Fictioneer wrote:
Gedeon wrote:
taixzo wrote:
Edit: after looking at Gedeon's overlay, I'm now thinking that Mount Argentera is too far east.


Overlays may be slightly off because of different projections, but somewhere around Marseilles, I would say.


Which means naming La Petite with a French name was spot on! (It's all connected.)


And the Tour De France discussion is in fact completely on topic!


Fabulous deduction! Cheers for charlie_grumbles!!

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby IceIsNice » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:00 am UTC

OK, the information coming from the new map is amazing. Fun times!
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Latent22 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:01 am UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:Whoa. :shock:

I honestly don't know if this is any more helpful, but at least it's more colorful:

Image Image

Probably not accurate, as I was only tracing over the existing lines. The image on the right is the original, embiggened.

Redundant:
Spoiler:
Image


ColorMap.png

ColorlessMap.png

Keywords: color colored colorful map triangulation grid chart BGUM
redundant37.png


Ok need to now compare to this map as well!

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Postby Eternal Density » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:01 am UTC

Sea levelONG
Image
Or alternatively "there's ItalONG"
Last edited by Eternal Density on Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:02 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby nickjbor » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:02 am UTC

Latent22 wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:Whoa. :shock:

I honestly don't know if this is any more helpful, but at least it's more colorful:

Image Image

Probably not accurate, as I was only tracing over the existing lines. The image on the right is the original, embiggened.

Redundant:
Spoiler:
Image


ColorMap.png

ColorlessMap.png

Keywords: color colored colorful map triangulation grid chart BGUM
redundant37.png


Ok need to now compare to this map as well!


This is exactly what I was trying to do. Sadly I got nothing
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Ximenez » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:03 am UTC

edfel wrote:I'm sticking to "Chateau d'If", on Montecarlo rock.

Point on the map: https://maps.google.fr/maps?q=chateau+d ... 90&t=h&z=6

The last words of the book "Le comte de Montecristo": <<Attendre et espérer>>. To wait and to hope.

7!!!

It is quite possible!

Chateau d'If:
Image

The fortress:
Image

Don't bother:
Spoiler:
chateaudif.jpg
Last edited by Ximenez on Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:04 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby moody7277 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:04 am UTC

Sanity check here: their fortress is going underwater as well, right?
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Re: MOLPY DOWN! (Niclep, not me.)

Postby taixzo » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:04 am UTC

Eternal Density wrote:Sea levelONG
Image
Or alternatively "there's ItalONG"


Location confirmed: the coast of France!!!!

*goes to a bank, requests a loan of several thousand exclamation marks - I seem to be going through them very quickly.*

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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