1190: "Time"

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keithl
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby keithl » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:14 pm UTC

Nilpferdschaf wrote:Château d'If is/was 30 km^2 big, so their little village is probably safe for now.


30 km2 is an error on wikipedia, propagating an error from an unsourced Lonely Planet guidebook page. If you look at actual satellite photos of the place, and use GIMP histogram to count pixels and compare scales, Château d'If is closer to 3 hectares, 0.03 km2. I've informed the Appropriate Authorities, and expect to be Officially Ignored, but we can look for ourselves, can't we?

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Re: Basin Run

Postby nerdsniped » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:23 pm UTC

charlie_grumbles wrote:Hmmm. 20 miles in a day is pretty hard, even on flat ground. Especially if you are carrying anything and you do need water. Day after day? Maybe. You do get used to it after a while. But very hard. They don't seem to have been exerting themselves a lot on the way up, actually, and seldom mentioned it.

I wish I knew more about this. The most *I've* ever walked in one day is 18 miles, and I was pretty tired at the end, and that was only one day in a row, and I wasn't carrying much. But I wasn't in especially good shape at the time, either.

On another occasion, in somewhat better condition, I've covered 12 miles per day repeated, through very hilly terrain (but no scrambling over rocks). Also quite tiring, but not pushing myself to the limit, and not spending the whole day on the trail.

I'm assuming that Cuegan are at a whole other level of physical fitness, endurance, and wilderness self-sufficiency. In part based on the fact that they didn't seem to think much of undertaking a 180-mile trip with minimal equipment. But I'll admit I don't know much about it.

I was also thinking about the fact that under race conditions, (some) people can cover 100 miles in 24 hours or so. Not sure how much support they have for that (food + water stations along the route?).

ETA: Pope *again*? I swear I'm not doing this on purpose. :oops: OK, decree: discuss your experience covering distance through the wilderness. Or, you know, just
Spoiler:
Wait for it / ... / RUN.
Last edited by nerdsniped on Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:27 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:27 pm UTC

keithl wrote:Château d'If is closer to 3 hectares, 0.03 km2.

Here's a pic of the isle (from Wikipedia) for reference...
Image
Grandpa's house should be next to where the lighthouse is, maybe?

(That would put the flag close to the shoreline.)


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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby gga2 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:28 pm UTC

My intense (in-tents) hiking friends cover 25-30 miles in a day carrying what they need for 3-5 days food at a time. But keep in mind that this pace requires: 1) stores every 3-5 days, 2) water available at least once daily, 3) modern materials such as nylon and polyester to make the load they are carrying fit in a bag that is still comfortable to carry that far. Given then Cuegan hadn't been far from the beach before, their previous experience level doesn't seem to match a multi-day journey seeming feasible.

The one 24-hour runner I know carries just a few small bottles of water on a special running belt. There are stations available often along these courses. Keep in mind that they are essentially destroyed afterwards and do nothing physical for several days or more. These runs, and long hikes, really mess up your feet too.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby a_s_h_e_n » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:31 pm UTC

gga2 wrote:My intense (in-tents) hiking friends cover 25-30 miles in a day carrying what they need for 3-5 days food at a time. But keep in mind that this pace requires: 1) stores every 3-5 days, 2) water available at least once daily, 3) modern materials such as nylon and polyester to make the load they are carrying fit in a bag that is still comfortable to carry that far. Given then Cuegan hadn't been far from the beach before, their previous experience level doesn't seem to match a multi-day journey seeming feasible.

The one 24-hour runner I know carries just a few small bottles of water on a special running belt. There are stations available often along these courses. Keep in mind that they are essentially destroyed afterwards and do nothing physical for several days or more. These runs, and long hikes, really mess up your feet too.

I've read a lot about old armies which were low on food and water but still managed 20+ miles a day (Napoleon's retreat from Russia maybe). And it's always mentioned that many of the men were dropping all around but there are a few who could make it
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby CasCat » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:36 pm UTC

a_s_h_e_n wrote:
gga2 wrote:My intense (in-tents) hiking friends cover 25-30 miles in a day carrying what they need for 3-5 days food at a time. But keep in mind that this pace requires: 1) stores every 3-5 days, 2) water available at least once daily, 3) modern materials such as nylon and polyester to make the load they are carrying fit in a bag that is still comfortable to carry that far. Given then Cuegan hadn't been far from the beach before, their previous experience level doesn't seem to match a multi-day journey seeming feasible.

The one 24-hour runner I know carries just a few small bottles of water on a special running belt. There are stations available often along these courses. Keep in mind that they are essentially destroyed afterwards and do nothing physical for several days or more. These runs, and long hikes, really mess up your feet too.

I've read a lot about old armies which were low on food and water but still managed 20+ miles a day (Napoleon's retreat from Russia maybe). And it's always mentioned that many of the men were dropping all around but there are a few who could make it


Being mauled by a meowlpy wouldn't help, however.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Platonix » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:37 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:Mustard! Chirping mustard! Chirpety chirp CHIRP!

That one song from The Music Man just got a lot funnier.
"Pick a little, Talk a little, CHEEP CHEEP CHEEP pick a lot, talk a little more"
Especially since every now and then there's a line that's just
"Cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep"

...you gave blitzing its name. I have unwavering faith in you.


By the way, someone mentioned the Rosetta Exposition feeling like that time when Crono, Marle and Lucca found the functioning computer in 2300 and learned about the apocalypse in 1999. I hope Crono's Theme, which played during the Screw Destiny moment of decision, has been going through your head during the RUN like it's been going through mine.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby HAL9000 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:40 pm UTC

Someguy945 wrote:While I don't expect Time to end anytime soon, this DOES feel like the "thrilling conclusion" part of a movie, doesn't it?

They/We finally got a whole bunch of new information at once, and now something urgent and physically demanding is occurring - that's your typical ending sequence to a thriller/suspense movie at a high level.

I'd have to disagree a little here. To me, this doesn't really feel like the build-up to the conclusion, but as a lead-in to the point in the story where all seems lost for our protagonists, before they gather ideas and resources and begin to fight back. I often encounter stories, especially in film, where the protagonists try to overcome their obstacles, fail the first time, and have to regroup and rebuild to win on the second try. My (very tentative) prediction is that Cueball and Megan will return to the beach to find the tents of their fellows deserted, hastily abandoned in an attempt to escape the sea. They will then have to find where their group has fled to, join the group, and deal with their new situation (which I think will be continuing to flee the encroaching waters, avoiding the more numerous and better-armed hill people, or both).
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Eutychus » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:45 pm UTC

I don't know if anyone's posted this already, but in frames M2613 and M2614 we have a flashback to where the sandcastle was, with a bucket bobbing on the surface of the water. I think the top of the structure might still be above that level. At any rate it gives some idea of where the sea (now bigger) had risen to just after they left the Bilby tower.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ChronosDragon » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:45 pm UTC

HAL9000 wrote:
Someguy945 wrote:While I don't expect Time to end anytime soon, this DOES feel like the "thrilling conclusion" part of a movie, doesn't it?

They/We finally got a whole bunch of new information at once, and now something urgent and physically demanding is occurring - that's your typical ending sequence to a thriller/suspense movie at a high level.

I'd have to disagree a little here. To me, this doesn't really feel like the build-up to the conclusion, but as a lead-in to the point in the story where all seems lost for our protagonists, before they gather ideas and resources and begin to fight back. I often encounter stories, especially in film, where the protagonists try to overcome their obstacles, fail the first time, and have to regroup and rebuild to win on the second try. My (very tentative) prediction is that Cueball and Megan will return to the beach to find the tents of their fellows deserted, hastily abandoned in an attempt to escape the sea. They will then have to find where their group has fled to, join the group, and deal with their new situation (which I think will be continuing to flee the encroaching waters, avoiding the more numerous and better-armed hill people, or both).


I agree - also, I like to think that even when Cuegan's story is over, Time won't be. I'm holding out hope that even after their adventures have concluded, the focus of the story will switch to some intrepid young beanie exploring newly flooded lands. I'm an infinitist, I suppose.

On an unrelated note, I've resolved to make a habit of short runs in the morning, partially because I'm really out of shape and I think I ought to do something about that, and partially (perhaps prompted by) the new command in the title text. Really puts Megan and Cue's pace and endurance into perspective.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby a_s_h_e_n » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:46 pm UTC

HAL9000 wrote:
Someguy945 wrote:While I don't expect Time to end anytime soon, this DOES feel like the "thrilling conclusion" part of a movie, doesn't it?

They/We finally got a whole bunch of new information at once, and now something urgent and physically demanding is occurring - that's your typical ending sequence to a thriller/suspense movie at a high level.

I'd have to disagree a little here. To me, this doesn't really feel like the build-up to the conclusion, but as a lead-in to the point in the story where all seems lost for our protagonists, before they gather ideas and resources and begin to fight back. I often encounter stories, especially in film, where the protagonists try to overcome their obstacles, fail the first time, and have to regroup and rebuild to win on the second try. My (very tentative) prediction is that Cueball and Megan will return to the beach to find the tents of their fellows deserted, hastily abandoned in an attempt to escape the sea. They will then have to find where their group has fled to, join the group, and deal with their new situation (which I think will be continuing to flee the encroaching waters, avoiding the more numerous and better-armed hill people, or both).

It could be a darker scenario where they never reach the 40 because the water has overtaken them, and now they must either find the 40 or get themselves back to safety. Either way, I'd like to see them meet up with the people the Beanies come from.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:52 pm UTC

Thanks, Platonix! I've read to the current newpage on the OTT (via cellphone), so barring any more postsplosions, I should be alright. I will have to go back and respond to some pastposts later, but thank Randall it's finally the wip-end and the pace has slowed!

I have faith that there is much more Time to come, and I will still follow the First Commandment and Wait for it even as Cuegan chooses to RUN.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Flado » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:53 pm UTC

mscha, back on NP 797, wrote:(Why are y'all complaining about the OTT moving too slow? It's moving too fast for me.)

My thoughts, exactly :roll:
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby a_s_h_e_n » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:01 pm UTC

A strand of hair is fallONG out of place

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Last edited by a_s_h_e_n on Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:02 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Random Musings

Postby Davidy » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:02 pm UTC

Cueball and Megan seem like fairly small people, maybe in the 5'7" range and maybe weighing 100 (M) and 140 (C). The average human male today has an average walking speed of 4.1 mph. That's on a short walk of maybe 2-5 miles. For a sustained walk the speed is more in the 3 mph range. Cuegan, being smaller, I would guess have a sustained walking speed of 2-3 mph. Now, to maintain that speed, a certain amount of energy (calories) is required. Given their weight and speed, Megan might expend 80 calories per hour while Cueball might use 100. If they walk for 10 hours per day, they will burn a total of 1800 calories per day between them. Add to this, their basic body daily caloric requirements of 2100 for Megan and 2700 for Cueball (which can be reduced to maybe 1400 and 1800 for a week or so). And, it's not really much easier walking downhill. This means that the two of them have to find 5000 calories each day to eat. I don't think the few berries they found on the way to the fortress will be enough to sustain them on their rushed trip back. They're going to have to find a few moplies or birds or eggs to munch on. Beyond food, they'll need about 2 liters each of water daily. There are rivers they can tap into but they'll still have to carry some water between fillups. That would add 2-4 pounds to the load they are already carrying. Any amount of food they may have in their backpacks can't be enough for two or three days, after all I doubt they have concentrated power bars in their time. They do seem rather young (late teens/early twenties) and healthy, butiven all this, I don't see how they made it to the fortress, let alone how they can get back home.

As the Germans say:
Spoiler:
warten, für es
"It's only funny until someone loses an eye, then it's still funny but they can only see it in 2-D."

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Re: Random Musings

Postby a_s_h_e_n » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:04 pm UTC

Davidy wrote:Cueball and Megan seem like fairly small people, maybe in the 5'7" range and maybe weighing 100 (M) and 140 (C). The average human male today has an average walking speed of 4.1 mph. That's on a short walk of maybe 2-5 miles. For a sustained walk the speed is more in the 3 mph range. Cuegan, being smaller, I would guess have a sustained walking speed of 2-3 mph. Now, to maintain that speed, a certain amount of energy (calories) is required. Given their weight and speed, Megan might expend 80 calories per hour while Cueball might use 100. If they walk for 10 hours per day, they will burn a total of 1800 calories per day between them. Add to this, their basic body daily caloric requirements of 2100 for Megan and 2700 for Cueball (which can be reduced to maybe 1400 and 1800 for a week or so). And, it's not really much easier walking downhill. This means that the two of them have to find 5000 calories each day to eat. I don't think the few berries they found on the way to the fortress will be enough to sustain them on their rushed trip back. They're going to have to find a few moplies or birds or eggs to munch on. Beyond food, they'll need about 2 liters each of water daily. There are rivers they can tap into but they'll still have to carry some water between fillups. That would add 2-4 pounds to the load they are already carrying. Any amount of food they may have in their backpacks can't be enough for two or three days, after all I doubt they have concentrated power bars in their time. They do seem rather young (late teens/early twenties) and healthy, butiven all this, I don't see how they made it to the fortress, let alone how they can get back home.

As the Germans say:
Spoiler:
warten, für es


Spot on about it not being easier walking downhill. Give me heavy ups over heavy downs any day while hiking
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby keithl » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:07 pm UTC

Safety of various shoreline places:

The volume of the Mediterranean is 3,750,000 km3, the average depth is 1,500m, so the average distance the water falls is 750m. The energy generated by filling that huge volume with water is 3.75E6 km3 x 1e12 kg/km3 x 750m x 9.8 m/s2 or 2.7e22 joules.

What happens to all that energy?

The Reynolds number through the Gibraltar gap is enormous ( inertia effects >> viscosity effects ), and even larger through all the various gaps between mountains and islands - it will take a very long time for the energy to dissipate in viscosity, evaporation, etc. So water pours in through the gap, water accelerates throughout the Atlantic towards the gap, develops a lot of momentum, pours into the Mediterranean basin - and keeps moving, long after 3,750,000 km3 has passed through. It's like releasing a weight suspended by a spring; the weight will drop, bounce on the spring, and bounce back above the original level of release.

Well, that's what's going to happen with a Mediterranean's worth of water, until there's been enough Time to couple all that potential and kinetic energy into viscosity and evaporation. And like the bouncing spring, the water may have waves as high the the Mediterranean is deep. Indeed, given the complex reflections off the irregularly shaped bottom and sides, there may be waves even higher. There may be sporadic waves lapping up to the Pyrenees, the Alps, through gaps in the Apennines entirely across Italy. This is NOT an overdamped system.

Much depends on how big a gap is torn through GiIbraltar - for major, impossible-to-flee-on-foot changes to occur in days or even weeks, the gap must be large and the acceleration of the seawater stupendous. At those scales, the "overflow" and rebound waves will be far higher than Chateau d'If, a few meters above sea level.

Here in Oregon, there is sand on tops of 100 foot cliffs from the 1700 AD tsunami, caused by a 9+ earthquake in the Cascadia subduction zone. We know exactly when that tsunami happened, because the waves reached Japan many hours later and killed people. It wiped out almost all of the near-shore Indian tribes in the Pacific Northwest, and only chance topography saved a few tribes farther up the hills. These enormous subduction zone quakes happen about every 300 years. One is likely to happen before this wiki posting goes off line, and I expect some enterprising but idiotic reporter will find this posting after that terrible event, and create mass panic in Italy.

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Re: Basin Run

Postby HES » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:14 pm UTC

nerdsniped wrote:
charlie_grumbles wrote:Hmmm. 20 miles in a day is pretty hard, even on flat ground. Especially if you are carrying anything and you do need water. Day after day? Maybe. You do get used to it after a while. But very hard. They don't seem to have been exerting themselves a lot on the way up, actually, and seldom mentioned it.

I wish I knew more about this. The most *I've* ever walked in one day is 18 miles, and I was pretty tired at the end, and that was only one day in a row, and I wasn't carrying much. But I wasn't in especially good shape at the time, either.
Spoiler:
On another occasion, in somewhat better condition, I've covered 12 miles per day repeated, through very hilly terrain (but no scrambling over rocks). Also quite tiring, but not pushing myself to the limit, and not spending the whole day on the trail.

I'm assuming that Cuegan are at a whole other level of physical fitness, endurance, and wilderness self-sufficiency. In part based on the fact that they didn't seem to think much of undertaking a 180-mile trip with minimal equipment. But I'll admit I don't know much about it.

I was also thinking about the fact that under race conditions, (some) people can cover 100 miles in 24 hours or so. Not sure how much support they have for that (food + water stations along the route?).

ETA: Pope *again*? I swear I'm not doing this on purpose. :oops: OK, decree: discuss your experience covering distance through the wilderness. Or, you know, just Wait for it / ... / RUN.


There's an even in the Netherlands called the Nijmegen Vierdaagse, covering either 40km (military, with weight) or 50km (civillian, without) a day, for four days, which is about 25/30 miles a day. Though you're not carrying full hiking kit, it still requires a fair amount of training. Luckilly for me, I was under 18 (a cadet, not part of the actual forces) at the time and therefore exempt from the weight requirement, but it still takes a toll having to walk in step with a team of people of different heights (i.e. with a shorter stride than me) and being held back by people who didn't train properly.

In other words, it's doable. Especially when as used to walking, and not to mention motivated, as they are.

(That was my only time in the Netherlands, and spent most of it on a temporary international military base. I'd love to return with my bike some day...)
Oh, and after a day travelling back to the UK I immediately went on a 3 day DofE hike. I don't recommend the combination.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby just_some_guy » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:22 pm UTC

Papal decree> Many years ago I hiked the West Highland way in Scotland, 96 miles in 6 days or 16mi/day, carrying most of what I needed for the entire trip (restocked some food in the middle, stopped at a few pubs at lunchtimes). It got much easier to cover that distance as I progressed and by the end we had no problem skipping up Ben Nevis. I did a lot more backpacking in those days but would not consider myself any kind of athlete. Given how little they seem to be carrying (no tents) and the fact that they are going downhill, I would expect they could cover 20-30 mi/dip without problem.

I do agree it's not necessarily easier going downhill than up, but I always found that i needed to stop much less frequently on the downhills so could cover more ground. -Steep- downhills, though, were murder on the knees.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Flado » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:22 pm UTC

mscha wrote:Since we appear to be doing heretic puzzles now, here's a river crossing puzzle that someone sent to me, some time before Time.
It's a lot harder than the standard wolf/goat/cabbage version... I think I concluded three times with absolute certainty that it's unsolvable, before finally solving it.

Edit: macraw83 noted that the above link doesn't work anymore. Here's another link to the same puzzle.

17 Minutes. Do I get the job? ;-)
Nice puzzle, though. Especially the head kicks the mother deals to the poor innocent boys. Wait, is her last name Tam? Oh. My. R. That's where she's been hiding! :shock:
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Nilpferdschaf » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:28 pm UTC

keithl wrote:
Nilpferdschaf wrote:Château d'If is/was 30 km^2 big, so their little village is probably safe for now.


30 km2 is an error on wikipedia, propagating an error from an unsourced Lonely Planet guidebook page. If you look at actual satellite photos of the place, and use GIMP histogram to count pixels and compare scales, Château d'If is closer to 3 hectares, 0.03 km2. I've informed the Appropriate Authorities, and expect to be Officially Ignored, but we can look for ourselves, can't we?


Oh, you're right. I was wondering why the castle looks so small if it's supposed to be 30 km^2, god dammit, wikipedia and I :oops:

The village seems to be ok anyway though, if the flag is any indication. The island is still a lot bigger than the actual castle.

Where are they going to get food from, if they only have such a small area? There won't be a lot of fish for the next few centuries, so they must have access to boats. It still seems odd to me why they would choose to settle on a small island instead of the continent. There even are other castle-like buildings 4km away in Marseille. What's going on there?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby HES » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:31 pm UTC

just_some_guy wrote:I do agree it's not necessarily easier going downhill than up, but I always found that i needed to stop much less frequently on the downhills so could cover more ground. -Steep- downhills, though, were murder on the knees.

Oh absolutely. Our training for Nijmegen was on the south coast near those famous white cliffs of Dover, those hills are not fun in either direction.

Hmm, in the relatively early days of the thread a waiting playlist was assembled. Do we now need a dramatic running playlist? We've already had this suggested; on behalf of the forty I suggest this.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby a_s_h_e_n » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:35 pm UTC

Flado wrote:
mscha wrote:Since we appear to be doing heretic puzzles now, here's a river crossing puzzle that someone sent to me, some time before Time.
It's a lot harder than the standard wolf/goat/cabbage version... I think I concluded three times with absolute certainty that it's unsolvable, before finally solving it.

Edit: macraw83 noted that the above link doesn't work anymore. Here's another link to the same puzzle.

17 Minutes. Do I get the job? ;-)
Nice puzzle, though. Especially the head kicks the mother deals to the poor innocent boys. Wait, is her last name Tam? Oh. My. R. That's where she's been hiding! :shock:

6 minutes, great puzzle
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30+page ketchup

Postby AluisioASG » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:39 pm UTC

1170 routine dm, 0, 0

I said there would be cakes.
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sin(π) cake?

charlie_grumbles
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Neil_Boekend
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fhorn
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taixzo
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Not the Avatar we're looking for, I guess.

ZoomanSP
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Angua
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mscha
In 2102 A.D., cake was baking.

Latent22
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Kieryn
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Well, maybe it does…


Now, replies.
Spoiler:
sford wrote:
higgs-boson wrote:…something BIG and UGLY has to have happenend for people still to exist as non-enhanced C-based life forms.

Ah, so you are not a follower of the Java-man theory?

I guess we weren't enlispened in the meantime.

ucim wrote:
Pikrass wrote:I'm asked to report my position to the Present, and so do I. Though it's quite a strange place for a beacon, don't you think? Right there, alone in the middle of NP 1116…

It originally stood proudly at the top of the mountain, but the sea of posts has risen. The world you once knew is ending. Soon even this Beacon Beta will be underwater.

Thanks for reminding me of that. A contingency is now in place.
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higgs-boson wrote:Just document the Alt Text in the ONG, please. We have to conserve Time. We have to protect history.

Agreed. Are the backup scripts already running?

Valarya wrote:I was so caught up in the alt-text that I automatically put it into the comic. In my head. :oops:

Don't give ideas to the GLR.

charlie_grumbles wrote:BTW, what DID Noah eat during the forty days and forty nights? He had plenty of possibilities, but likely they were ruled out by his instructions.

Hmm… how many people there were on the Ark? (many ways to interpret this question)

CameronCat wrote:
edo wrote:Should we change the criteria for page pope? perhaps whoever has the most posts on the previous page, with the tiebreaker being whichever has the most overall posts to the thread? Thoughts?

I vote absolutely NOT! It would only add to the clutter as everyone tries to increase their post numbers, possibly without anything to add to the discussion.

I agree. I suggest using a randomizer script instead, like this one:

Code: Select all

function () {
  return "AluisioASG";
}


sford wrote:I further decree that … what? What do you mean only one decree per page pope? I was going to decree that I get infinity more decrees! NO FAIR!

I'M GONNA TELL BLITZGIRL!!!

As someone once said, “a man's got to know his limits”.

mscha wrote:It doesn't help that many people have apparently stopped reading and are just posting – so we get 10 messages saying the exact same thing, like “OMR, the alt text changed”.

Yeah, I noticed that, specially during the Rosetta Talk epoch.
And yay, Unicode quotes!

ucim wrote:
AluisioASG wrote:I still can't edit my posts.

Happened to me too. Dunno the issue, but sometimes logging in again (from the page you want to edit) helps. Especially if you have multiple tabs open.

Three browsers, two systems. I don't think that's gonna help.

ucim wrote:@Selcouth: I remember you for sure - you were one of my first BlitzGirls! A lot has happened, the Order of the Holy Contradiction is going to have to convene!

So, this is the Misquoted (to me) One.

Pikrass wrote:Python is a good one, as Aluisio pointed out. […] Ruby Python is strongly-typed, though you don't have to mention the type of a variable because Python variables are tags, not boxes.

FTFY

Nilpferdschaf wrote:Assuming they are at Château d'If, there must be a VERY good reason why they would risk being trapped on an island during a flood rather than walking a few kilometers to settle on the continent. […] why would they not want to be connected to the mainland?

Maybe her real name is Nemo?
(Only ever read 20kLUtS; I like the mystery atmosphere surrounding the captain.)
Gingercat wrote:Yeah, my players just decided to sit back and watch the Nukewisp frenzy itself to Annihilation-level fire energy, THEN they killed it.
Thus ended that campaign.
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Randallspeed on your blitz, january1may! Save the Present!

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Someguy945
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Re: Basin Run

Postby Someguy945 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:46 pm UTC

charlie_grumbles wrote:Hmmm. 20 miles in a day is pretty hard, even on flat ground. Especially if you are carrying anything and you do need water. Day after day? Maybe. You do get used to it after a while. But very hard. They don't seem to have been exerting themselves a lot on the way up, actually, and seldom mentioned it.


It's easier for them than us if they are tribal people who are used to walking everywhere and farming/hunting all the time, right?

Then again, what are they doing building sandcastles all day?

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HES
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby HES » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:50 pm UTC

@AluisioASG could your edit permissions have been revoked somehow? An admin may be able to help

a_s_h_e_n wrote:
Spoiler:
Flado wrote:
mscha wrote:Since we appear to be doing heretic puzzles now, here's a river crossing puzzle that someone sent to me, some time before Time.
It's a lot harder than the standard wolf/goat/cabbage version... I think I concluded three times with absolute certainty that it's unsolvable, before finally solving it.

Edit: macraw83 noted that the above link doesn't work anymore. Here's another link to the same puzzle.

17 Minutes. Do I get the job? ;-)
Nice puzzle, though. Especially the head kicks the mother deals to the poor innocent boys. Wait, is her last name Tam? Oh. My. R. That's where she's been hiding! :shock:

6 minutes, great puzzle

Seconded, on both counts. What a dysfunctional family...
He/Him/His Image

Zorin_75
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Zorin_75 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:53 pm UTC

Nilpferdschaf wrote:It still seems odd to me why they would choose to settle on a small island instead of the continent. There even are other castle-like buildings 4km away in Marseille. What's going on there?



Who says they would?

"The castle was once an island. We found it and have tried to repair it. I guess it will be an island again."

They found a castle and moved in (and who wouldn't? It's a castle after all), presumably well before they found out it would soon have a sea view... But nobody said the were intending to rely on it as their only base...
And how do you know what's left of Marseille in 10000 years?
Go Minim go!

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Flado
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Flado » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:57 pm UTC

Hey FutureFolk, I just had a terrifying idea: what if y'all decide to do an OTT meetup Outside in my back yard (read: same continent) and I, being lost in time, learn about it post factum :shock: :idea: :?:
Someone will surely think of the poor old retired Patriarch and drop him a PM in such a case, right? Guys? Right?
Patriarch of the Western Paradox Church (ret'd)
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All the stars are dust on my screen -- Marsh'n
The best computer game is a compiler. -- Exodies
I thought I was wrong, but it turned out I was mistaken. -- ucim
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ZoomanSP
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ZoomanSP » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:57 pm UTC

@AluisioASG: Thanks for the cake!

Firstpost bump:
Renil wrote:I've started transliterating beanish into a Canadian aboriginal syllabic.
Spoiler:
ᔪᘊᖚᐧ ᘛᔭᐤ = d36' Ub?
ᔪᘝᓄᐧ = dAJ'
,ᔪ = ,d
ᒣᖉ = 7X
ᖊᐣᖽ = W'N
ᖽᘛᕋᐤ = NUq?
ᓭᘈ ᘊᒣᓭᐧᖊᔑ ᘝᘊᓭᒣᖊᐣᖗᐨ = 4M 374'WS A347W'9.
ᘊᖚᐧ ᘊᘖᑫᘖᒣᐣᖚ ᘡ ᓴᔅᐧ ᘊᖚ,ᕋᐨ = 36' 32g27'6 U 4"' 36g,q.
ᖚᑫᘖ ᓭᐧᖚ = 6g2 4'6
ᓭᘖᔭᓄᐨ = 42bJ.
ᖉ,ᑦᐦ = X,c!
ᓭᘖᔭᓄᐦ = 42bJ!
ᔪᖉᔭᑫ ᘊᖚᐧ ᘊᓭᐧᖚᐤ = dXbg 36' 34'6?
ᒼᖸᖽᐣ ᔭ = 'MN' b
ᘝᖽᒣ ᓭᘖᒼ ᖊᘊᐤ = AN7 42' W3?
ᕋᖗ ᘝᙉᖉᔭ ᘖᐣ ᖗᔭᐢ ᘊᓭᘖᔭᓄᐤ = q9 AQXb 2' 9b, 342bJ?
ᖽᔑᐣᘖ ᖚᐧᘖᖗᑫ ᘝᐣᖽ ᘊᒣᒼᖽᘝᐨ = NS'2 6'29g A'N 37'NA.

Hopefully that renders for everyone.

Welcome, Renil!
Wait on.

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Spoiler:
Kieryn wrote:They have a culture involving hat wearing. What kind of a collective would come up with such a thing!?
BlitzGirl wrote:I'll get the razor and finish off Occam while we're at it.
ucim / Megan wrote:"It can do whatever it wants. It's the OTT."

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HES
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby HES » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:03 pm UTC

Flado wrote:Hey FutureFolk, I just had a terrifying idea: what if y'all decide to do an OTT meetup Outside in my back yard (read: same continent) and I, being lost in time, learn about it post factum :shock: :idea: :?:
Someone will surely think of the poor old retired Patriarch and drop him a PM in such a case, right? Guys? Right?

Of course, but only after it happens. And from that PM, you could then formalise the paradox by organising the event in the first place.
He/Him/His Image

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nerdsniped
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby nerdsniped » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:04 pm UTC

gga2, a_s_h_e_n, HES, just_some_guy -- thanks for all the great trekking reports. It sounds like there's a wide range of possibilities, depending on exactly how good their conditioning is (clearly good, but are they used to trekking?), food/water supply, and how much the terrain slowed them down. (1 mile or so of climb over 180 miles isn't much in and of itself, but that glosses over a lot of details.)

Davidy wrote:
Spoiler:
Cueball and Megan seem like fairly small people, maybe in the 5'7" range and maybe weighing 100 (M) and 140 (C). The average human male today has an average walking speed of 4.1 mph. That's on a short walk of maybe 2-5 miles. For a sustained walk the speed is more in the 3 mph range. Cuegan, being smaller, I would guess have a sustained walking speed of 2-3 mph. Now, to maintain that speed, a certain amount of energy (calories) is required. Given their weight and speed, Megan might expend 80 calories per hour while Cueball might use 100. If they walk for 10 hours per day, they will burn a total of 1800 calories per day between them. Add to this, their basic body daily caloric requirements of 2100 for Megan and 2700 for Cueball (which can be reduced to maybe 1400 and 1800 for a week or so). And, it's not really much easier walking downhill. This means that the two of them have to find 5000 calories each day to eat. I don't think the few berries they found on the way to the fortress will be enough to sustain them on their rushed trip back. They're going to have to find a few moplies or birds or eggs to munch on. Beyond food, they'll need about 2 liters each of water daily. There are rivers they can tap into but they'll still have to carry some water between fillups. That would add 2-4 pounds to the load they are already carrying.
Any amount of food they may have in their backpacks can't be enough for two or three days, after all I doubt they have concentrated power bars in their time. They do seem rather young (late teens/early twenties) and healthy, butiven all this, I don't see how they made it to the fortress, let alone how they can get back home. <snip>

This is a very good question -- how *are* they feeding themselves? I wonder if the answer boils down to "GLR wasn't interested in that aspect of the story, and simply wrote it off with 'they must know how to live off the land'".

keithl wrote:Safety of various shoreline places:

The volume of the Mediterranean is 3,750,000 km3, the average depth is 1,500m, so the average distance the water falls is 750m. The energy generated by filling that huge volume with water is 3.75E6 km3 x 1e12 kg/km3 x 750m x 9.8 m/s2 or 2.7e22 joules.

What happens to all that energy?
Spoiler:
The Reynolds number through the Gibraltar gap is enormous ( inertia effects >> viscosity effects ), and even larger through all the various gaps between mountains and islands - it will take a very long time for the energy to dissipate in viscosity, evaporation, etc. So water pours in through the gap, water accelerates throughout the Atlantic towards the gap, develops a lot of momentum, pours into the Mediterranean basin - and keeps moving, long after 3,750,000 km3 has passed through. It's like releasing a weight suspended by a spring; the weight will drop, bounce on the spring, and bounce back above the original level of release.

Well, that's what's going to happen with a Mediterranean's worth of water, until there's been enough Time to couple all that potential and kinetic energy into viscosity and evaporation. And like the bouncing spring, the water may have waves as high the the Mediterranean is deep. Indeed, given the complex reflections off the irregularly shaped bottom and sides, there may be waves even higher. There may be sporadic waves lapping up to the Pyrenees, the Alps, through gaps in the Apennines entirely across Italy. This is NOT an overdamped system.

Much depends on how big a gap is torn through GiIbraltar - for major, impossible-to-flee-on-foot changes to occur in days or even weeks, the gap must be large and the acceleration of the seawater stupendous. At those scales, the "overflow" and rebound waves will be far higher than Chateau d'If, a few meters above sea level.

Here in Oregon, there is sand on tops of 100 foot cliffs from the 1700 AD tsunami, caused by a 9+ earthquake in the Cascadia subduction zone. We know exactly when that tsunami happened, because the waves reached Japan many hours later and killed people. It wiped out almost all of the near-shore Indian tribes in the Pacific Northwest, and only chance topography saved a few tribes farther up the hills. These enormous subduction zone quakes happen about every 300 years. One is likely to happen before this wiki posting goes off line, and I expect some enterprising but idiotic reporter will find this posting after that terrible event, and create mass panic in Italy.

Great analysis!
It does seem like the castle is not going to be a wise place to ride things out, even if it is known to be above the ultimate sea level...
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Eutychus
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Eutychus » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:04 pm UTC

A quick Google map estimation puts me at 1000km as the crow flies from the Château d'If. Anyone nearer?

More worryingly, the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor is currently under construction at Cadarache, about 50km from Marseille, tokamak and all. It sits right on a seismic fault line and is destined to be used, amongst other things, to conduct experiments into nuclear fusion (as I understand it, which is not very much - I know about Cadarache through my translation work).

As I say, I'm not an expert, but it strikes me that 11,000 years is perhaps not such a long time when looking at the environmental consequences of an installation like that and the apparent occurrence of major natural disasters. Anyone care to comment?
Be very careful about rectilinear assumptions. Raptors could be hiding there - ucim

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Eutychus » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:05 pm UTC

Oh and not much furthONG

Image

[DP for ONG]
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Lukeonia1 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:10 pm UTC

Sigh. I've been keeping up with the OTC but I'm 50 newpages behind in the OTT. I'm super excited by everything that's happened, so I think I have some blitzing to do this evenix.

In the meantime, blindposting from NP 1121... I dunno how the OTC Soundtrack Project has been going, but three newpages later everyone seems to have overlooked this amazing little gem:

adnapemit wrote:With everyone doing voice acting I was inspired to represent the "Somewhat"oh.
It is probably an example of how we shouldn't do it as a voice over.

ohI don't think I will do any voice acting ever again :oops:

Since we have no idea how a Beanish accent sounds, I think this rendering of Hairdo's line is most awesome! If we're still struggling with how to do a voiceover for her garbled speech, I think adnapemit's technique is a serious contender.

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taixzo
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby taixzo » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:10 pm UTC

Eutychus wrote:A quick Google map estimation puts me at 1000km as the crow flies from the Château d'If. Anyone nearer?

More worryingly, the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor is currently under construction at Cadarache, about 50km from Marseille, tokamak and all. It sits right on a seismic fault line and is destined to be used, amongst other things, to conduct experiments into nuclear fusion (as I understand it, which is not very much - I know about Cadarache through my translation work).

As I say, I'm not an expert, but it strikes me that 11,000 years is perhaps not such a long time when looking at the environmental consequences of an installation like that and the apparent occurrence of major natural disasters. Anyone care to comment?


A fusion reactor is relatively safe in a disaster. Unlike a fission reactor, where fuel can reach critical mass under ordinary conditions and precautions have to be taken against it doing so, fusion requires very extreme conditions (high pressure at millions of degrees). Because of this, if the reactor failed, the hydrogen would escape the tokamak and immediately cool below the point where it could fuse.
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Useless utilities: Newpix clock for Mac OS X, Newpix clock for Ubuntu

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Valarya » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:16 pm UTC

Rule110 wrote:Randomly, one more thing:

Image

redundant
Spoiler:
voyager_1.png

Yesssss, THIS! I don't think I saw anyone else comment on this Rule, but it's so perfect - hahah. For me, I try to use the left-arrow because that's how I scroll through the Book of Aubron. Can't tell you how many times I've done that. :? :mrgreen:

*waves hi to all the new people* Wow! Welcome! :D
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hunjoh
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby hunjoh » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:18 pm UTC

a_s_h_e_n wrote:
gga2 wrote:My intense (in-tents) hiking friends cover 25-30 miles in a day carrying what they need for 3-5 days food at a time. But keep in mind that this pace requires: 1) stores every 3-5 days, 2) water available at least once daily, 3) modern materials such as nylon and polyester to make the load they are carrying fit in a bag that is still comfortable to carry that far. Given then Cuegan hadn't been far from the beach before, their previous experience level doesn't seem to match a multi-day journey seeming feasible.

The one 24-hour runner I know carries just a few small bottles of water on a special running belt. There are stations available often along these courses. Keep in mind that they are essentially destroyed afterwards and do nothing physical for several days or more. These runs, and long hikes, really mess up your feet too.

I've read a lot about old armies which were low on food and water but still managed 20+ miles a day (Napoleon's retreat from Russia maybe). And it's always mentioned that many of the men were dropping all around but there are a few who could make it


I used to do a lot of backpacking 30 years ago, before many of the modern materials people now take for granted were available.

In the Sierras 15-20 miles a day was not uncommon on well-groomed trails. The longest day I remember was 25 miles which included 3 +10,000 ft. passes. In the Grand Canyon, where there were lots of escarpments to go over and no trails, we averaged more like 7 miles a day....

The mileage figures above were with a full frame pack, sleeping bag, food for a week or more, and water for a day or two. My pack weighed 30-35 pounds and I weighed 130-135. (I looked like Cueball with hair....) In the Grand Canyon we carried more water, more like 3 or 4 days worth, and the extra water put our packs into the 40+ pound range.

Having said all of that, Cuegan would have kicked our butts. They are used to living a semi-nomadic life style, they are traveling light and fast, they are acclimated to the climate and living outdoors, and they are motivated. Their is no way that I would have been able to keep up with them.

Also, going downhill is much faster than going up hill especially when you are young and bouncy. Given that their trip up was a leisurely "let's see what is around the next bend" walk and their trip down is an emergency, I would expect that in their shoes I could make the trip down in about half the time it took me to get up to the castle. A lot of that extra mileage would come from starting earlier and going later. I know from experience that when you really need to, you can see enough to walk just by the light of the stars. Cloud cover makes it too dark, but any moonlight makes it bright enough to walk easily. And since we haven't seen the moon on their way up, then they should start having moonlight on their way down.

And while I am rambling on, if I put myself in their position I would travel back the way I came. I would already know the way, I would know the landmarks, I would know where to get water and food. If I were trying to travel fast that would be very important to me. I know from my trips in the Grand Canyon that one can waste the better part of a day trying to find water in an arid landscape, even if you know where to look. So I would blitz my way back down the path I came, planning while I was walking where to stock up on supplies and knowing how much I would need to carry to get me to the next resource.

Also, they have to be thinking that they are going to get home before the water gets there. So they can plan on not needing to resupply for the last day or so because they can fuel up at their village.

If they hit the flood waters before they get home, then all bets are off. Then they are going to be breaking a new trail escaping the flood waters while trying to intercept the fleeing 40.
Last edited by hunjoh on Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:23 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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edo
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby edo » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:23 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:
ucim wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:The big question is, why have Cuegan's people and the Beanie Fleet never seen each other before? How can the Cueganites possibly be so isolated that a widespread effort to intentionally find everybody in the basin would miss them? How is there such a tiny population of only 40 people who have hardly any contact with anyone else in the world, anyway?
Maybe they are looked down upon as inferior scavangers, unworthy of much effort or attention, the way people in the present look down on certain groups that... well... they don't care for. Politics remains alive and well.

True, they could explain how they are isolated, but my bigger curiosity is how they can exist in such isolation with so few people. Biologists correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure 40 people is not a viable breeding population. That's a handful of large families, or a dozen small ones. Which means the Cueganites are either the last remnants of a people who were already dying before their entire world was deluged, or are a very recent splinter group of a larger viable breeding population, or are horribly inbred, or some combination of the three (need more of the other two the less you have of any one).

Perhaps they are some kind of outcasts from the Hill People? Maybe there were a handful of Hill families who did something horrible and were exiled, which would explain why the Hill People don't like the Cueganites. Cuegan and their generation could have been little kids or unborn yet when the split happened, so all they know is "the Hill People don't like us", and none of the details about why. There are newer little kids in their population now, but a few unrelated families is enough people to have a few new kids without any inbreeding.

Or maybe the Hill People are general assholes of some sort and a small group of disadvantaged people fled down river to escape persecution or oppression.

Either way, it seems that Cueganite civilization is most likely very young, assuming they're not all dying off or horribly inbred, neither of which are in evidence. This could also explain why they live in tents, yet evidently have knowledge of better building techniques than that: maybe they just haven't had time to really build their settlement yet? (Good thing too, since most homeowners' insurance doesn't cover floods).


I've heard 46 is the magic number, so maybe they have enough. They'd need some... liberal... social behavior however.
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Valiant Cookie
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Valiant Cookie » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:23 pm UTC

Oh my Randall! It's been quite some Time since I've taken the time to post here, but I have been puhctek-ing a few pages of the OTT at least twice daily. New Alt-Text commandments, beanish, this is certainly more exciting than the period of the mound.

I had an idea when I was thinking of time in a mix of heretical and True Units. So I thought up a way to be little less heretical. In The Begining, there were was a pic, and then in the rush of creation there were many new pix, coming more quickly in the old Times. After 24 pix had passed Cuegan grew restless and began the construction. From thus spawned my idea of referring the time of day, instead of 10am, it may be thought of as 10bcEx1 and likewise 10pm as 10scEx2.

Just the random thoughts from my head inspired by the OTT. Thought up and posted at about 4:23scsh

Ex1: Before construction time
Ex2: Sandcastle time
sh: Semi-Heretical
Is it time? Yes.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:28 pm UTC

Eutychus wrote:A quick Google map estimation puts me at 1000km as the crow flies from the Château d'If. Anyone nearer?

More worryingly, the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor is currently under construction at Cadarache, about 50km from Marseille, tokamak and all. It sits right on a seismic fault line and is destined to be used, amongst other things, to conduct experiments into nuclear fusion (as I understand it, which is not very much - I know about Cadarache through my translation work).

As I say, I'm not an expert, but it strikes me that 11,000 years is perhaps not such a long time when looking at the environmental consequences of an installation like that and the apparent occurrence of major natural disasters. Anyone care to comment?


Not much danger if it is radiation you are worried about. The tokamak doesn't take heavy elements (uranium...) and split the atoms. It starts with something like hydrogen or helium and makes slightly heavier elements that aren't themselves radioactive. But there are a bunch of fission power generation stations about, I'd guess. Don't build (any more) of those on fault lines, please.
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