1190: "Time"

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Random832
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Random832 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:01 pm UTC

Zorin_75 wrote:
Random832 wrote: (and their assumption is that the ocean is "fresh", rather than simply less salty than their sea),

No, it isn't. Why is there so much discussion about this, it's one of the few things that isn't a riddle:
frame 3012

"I guess the other sea is fresh water"

To me this implies an assumption that the only reason the water is salty at all is the salt from their own sea.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:02 pm UTC

Another advantage to the "up a river" idea...
Rivers do not flow uphill. Therefore, going against normal river flow means you are always going uphill, and therefore safer from being trapped by the flood.

(EDIT) Forward bump
Zorin_75 wrote:blackONG
Image
Last edited by NetWeasel on Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:04 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Montov » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:02 pm UTC

Those nights are coming in quickly! Or is it just a cut to the next scene?

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby moody7277 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:04 pm UTC

More time passes as Megan explains exactly what they're going to do. We don't see this, so it must work.

Random832 wrote:
Zorin_75 wrote:
Random832 wrote: (and their assumption is that the ocean is "fresh", rather than simply less salty than their sea),

No, it isn't. Why is there so much discussion about this, it's one of the few things that isn't a riddle:
frame 3012

"I guess the other sea is fresh water"

To me this implies an assumption that the only reason the water is salty at all is the salt from their own sea.


I think what the consensus is, is that compared to their (highly salinated) sea, any other water is fresh, including regular sea water that we think of as salty.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby neopifex » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:05 pm UTC

akacat wrote:Blind-posting a bit because I just can't resist.
SPACKlick wrote:LA PETITE IS BACK! oh and ONG

Spoiler:
Image

I literally squee'd. :D


When I de-coma'd this morning and Geekwagon'd through the night's newpix, I sat up and cheered when La Petite showed up. Scared my cats half to death! :3
C'mon, let's see what's through here!

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby k.bookbinder » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:06 pm UTC

Zorin_75 wrote:
mikro2nd wrote:Am I the only one having trouble swallowing the idea of the sandcastle-platform having transformed into something that can actually float?

Enough to carry a little girl? No problem. For 20 Cueganites it might need some improvements, though...


Wooden spars are surprisingly buoyant, even in fresh water. I do remember an event where my Scout troop participated in a raft building competition. We had to build a raft to cross a small lake (a very large pond really) that would carry 5 scouts. We used a team of our oldest (and heaviest) scouts, of which I was one. All the teams had similarly cut pine wood spars. We won. Why? Because we realized all we needed was a stable square with just enough spar attached to give us footing. In other words, we floated across without solid flooring on the raft.

Granted, we did not see Cuegan put a lot of detailed effort into flooring their platform, but I think, from what we did see, we can assume that the the length wise flooring consisted of several long spar lashes together, one next to the other. That would give lots of buoyancy and ample footing. My concern will be that too many people on the raft may cause it to pitch side to side. I do not think it is very wide. That may be their biggest problem (especially since they have sand above them, and would be rather top heavy).
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:07 pm UTC

Montov wrote:Those nights are coming in quickly! Or is it just a cut to the next scene?

Aw, c'mon, you know how this works...
After a speech like that, there is always a montage sequence of everybody doing everything, helping each other, and briefly pausing to grin at each other as if to say, "You know, this just might work!"

If you put all that into one frame, it looks like this.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby edo » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:08 pm UTC

I've confirmed that all the pixels are pure black in MSpaint (I know, quite the fancy tool) :P
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby gga2 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:09 pm UTC

A few questions with/without answers:

1. How is the raft moving up next to them? There must have been a river next to the yurt camp, that we can't see because it's beyond our view. I don't think this raft is including wheels.

2. Floatability - I've made basic rafts from wood before. Without a hull of a boat which also gives displacement, you need quite a lot of wood to make something buoyant even to hold any weight. I had a large pile of wood lashed together, and could float on it, but it was also hovering around 6" underwater with my weight on it. Even my 25ft long sailboat is only rated for 2000 pounds, and that's a hull not a raft, so I'd say this is some artistic license to think 20 Ceuganites can stay float on this raft.

3. Where does this story go once they get to safety? Assuming they find the rest of their clan (or even if they don't), they are likely to continue going up until they are safe. Then there would be lots of question answer time but where does the plot go from there?

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Zorin_75 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:10 pm UTC

NetWeasel wrote:
Montov wrote:Those nights are coming in quickly! Or is it just a cut to the next scene?

Aw, c'mon, you know how this works...
After a speech like that, there is always a montage sequence of everybody doing everything, helping each other, and briefly pausing to grin at each other as if to say, "You know, this just might work!"

If you put all that into one frame, it looks like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7zc1iySY1I
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:13 pm UTC

NetWeasel wrote:
taixzo wrote:RaftONG!
Spoiler:
Image
This should work...
The banks will be, by definition, higher than the water at the floodwater's edge. Sleep in shifts, long poles for guidance, when you get to rapids, just
Spoiler:
wait for it.


If they can continue up their current river they are unlikely to meet rapids as the only thing that could cause it is going over a fairly extensive ridge into a lower valley. But the river couldn't have taken that route as it would have to go up to do so.

On the other hand, if they wind up being pushed to the East they will meet the mother of all rapids.

This following the bank is harder than you think. Banks are seldom close to the water, and vary a lot, since water cuts into the ground. Vegetation if any also gets seriously in your way.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Ashaman » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:16 pm UTC

NetWeasel wrote:Aw, c'mon, you know how this works...
After a speech like that, there is always a montage sequence of everybody doing everything, helping each other, and briefly pausing to grin at each other as if to say, "You know, this just might work!"

...and I can already hear the theme music from South Park starting up: "We're gonna do a montage!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPFCHuEegsk

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Yuki » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:17 pm UTC

I think today's xkcd was missing an entry:

1242parody.png
Specifically, this.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby rvloon » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:17 pm UTC

As I had already done Paint it Black and don't want to repeat myself, I found this:

Image

Doesn't this look just like beanish?

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Zorin_75 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:23 pm UTC

rvloon wrote:Doesn't this look just like beanish?

Hmm. So maybe we should just ask a pharmacist to translate the beanish for us? :idea:
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cameroda » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:23 pm UTC

Were there two ropes to tie up the raft? Because it looks like one was tied to the front, and the back end should have swung around in the current/flow if it was not tied down.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby yappobiscuits » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:24 pm UTC

gga2 wrote:Where does this story go once they get to safety? Assuming they find the rest of their clan (or even if they don't), they are likely to continue going up until they are safe. Then there would be lots of question answer time but where does the plot go from there?

Prediction: They'll find some more of their people stranded on hills, and have to save them - but they won't ALL fit on the raft, so they have to make multiple trips, with more problems to overcome along the way.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:27 pm UTC

NetWeasel wrote:Another advantage to the "up a river" idea...
Rivers do not flow uphill. Therefore, going against normal river flow means you are always going uphill, and therefore safer from being trapped by the flood.

I'm pretty sure they are just going to ride the rising sea front upwards along the path of the river. They are already at this front. They are unlikely to have propulsion to leave the sea front behind. We don't know where this river goes, however. We do know more about the Big River (Rhone) and that it goes to the castle, but this one is more of a mystery. The fact that it is small worries me. Some small rivers rise as springs, rather than high up. If they follow it they may reach a local top. In which case the raft can still save them since they can float, but not run, above it.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby JudeMorrigan » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:27 pm UTC

Random832 wrote:
Zorin_75 wrote:
Random832 wrote: (and their assumption is that the ocean is "fresh", rather than simply less salty than their sea),

No, it isn't. Why is there so much discussion about this, it's one of the few things that isn't a riddle:
frame 3012

"I guess the other sea is fresh water"

To me this implies an assumption that the only reason the water is salty at all is the salt from their own sea.

You seem to be overlooking the "not as fresh as a river" part.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby pkcommando » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:28 pm UTC

For the more sciencey people:

I see the issue of potentially requiring a hull has come up. As there is already a railing on the edge of the platform/raft, couldn't they could then give the raft a hull using the yurts? Would even a canvas-type skin help?

Obviously, there'd be an issue of how it's attached/secured, but after that.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby nerdsniped » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:28 pm UTC

nerdsniped wrote:A thought: the terse one-word response "Everything?" is very Cueganesqe (and XKCDesque in general). Somehow I don't think Megan and Cueball will have much trouble coming to a meeting of minds with the rest of the group. (The question now is whether they can come to a meeting, period.)

Indeed, the group doesn't seem to have had much trouble accepting the situation. I think we can now guess at the origin of the Cueganites:
Spoiler:
Like most XKCD characters, they are grad students. More precisely, the descendants of an ancient group of grad students who gathered together after the Antares Incident.

This explains their scavenging-based economy:
Spoiler:
Primordially, their primary survival skill was scrounging abandoned lab equipment.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:34 pm UTC

charlie_grumbles wrote:
NetWeasel wrote:Another advantage to the "up a river" idea...
Rivers do not flow uphill. Therefore, going against normal river flow means you are always going uphill, and therefore safer from being trapped by the flood.

I'm pretty sure they are just going to ride the rising sea front upwards along the path of the river. They are already at this front. They are unlikely to have propulsion to leave the sea front behind. We don't know where this river goes, however. We do know more about the Big River (Rhone) and that it goes to the castle, but this one is more of a mystery. The fact that it is small worries me. Some small rivers rise as springs, rather than high up. If they follow it they may reach a local top. In which case the raft can still save them since they can float, but not run, above it.

Except that Cuegan has the Maps (that we haven't seen all of)! By my calculations, and the maps that have been shown, and the maps dug up from Outside, it looks like they are headed up the river that is on the best land escape route up to Petit Rhone Canyon.
Side note: On the National Geographic map, this particular river forks, much like the Mississippi/Atchafalaya. This could be why the river only runs (ran?) down this fork intermittantly...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:35 pm UTC

nerdsniped wrote:OK, but why is this better than just walking (or better still, RUNning) up the riverbank? Is the current moving faster than they could jog? Seems like Cuegan would have had a harder time crossing, if so.

All I can think is that Megan is planning to take the raft ALL the way up, somehow. Otherwise, right now, it's just a slower way to hike up the river.

They have children (less endurance) and possibly old codgers, like myself (even less).
And don't forget. They have ~40 people to bring to safety, not 20.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Eliram » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:36 pm UTC

mscha wrote:Found this little clip from a French tourist at Château d'If.
It's ⁴, but doesn't really help confirm anything; the inside of the castle doesn't look much like the OTC version.

Are you kidding? 2:30 into the clip: Stairs, then big hall. All, flatten in the OTC due to 2.5D conversion.

jazz14456 wrote:
speising wrote:um, so, they know boats, medieval castles and siege weapons, but they live in a small tribe in tents in a salt flat and claim not to know anything at all.
still, there's the mysterious steam bottle.
doesn't really add up without some additional revelations, does it?

Cuganites =/ Beanites
Thats why. :)

I think the steam bottle is a necessary piece of equipment for them! The sea is too salty, the river doesn't really get to their tents most of the year, and it must be their usual way of getting fresh water, since when the river is away, the hillbullies won't let them drink from it.

And last, but not least, I don't know why everyone are so worried thinking whether they'll float or not.
Of course they can all just float to safety. After all, they are...


(wait for it...)


STICK FIGURES!

(I'll stay quiet now for a while...)
It's about time.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jovialbard » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:37 pm UTC

KarMann wrote::shock:
Image


From NP 445: I think she was dragging some kind of flotation devices to help her save the castle. What else could it be?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby nerdsniped » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:39 pm UTC

NetWeasel wrote:
charlie_grumbles wrote:
NetWeasel wrote:Another advantage to the "up a river" idea...
Rivers do not flow uphill. Therefore, going against normal river flow means you are always going uphill, and therefore safer from being trapped by the flood.

I'm pretty sure they are just going to ride the rising sea front upwards along the path of the river. They are already at this front. They are unlikely to have propulsion to leave the sea front behind. We don't know where this river goes, however. We do know more about the Big River (Rhone) and that it goes to the castle, but this one is more of a mystery. The fact that it is small worries me. Some small rivers rise as springs, rather than high up. If they follow it they may reach a local top. In which case the raft can still save them since they can float, but not run, above it.

Except that Cuegan has the Maps (that we haven't seen all of)! By my calculations, and the maps that have been shown, and the maps dug up from Outside, it looks like they are headed up the river on the best land escape route up to Petit Rhone Canyon.
Side note: On the National Geographic map, this particular river forks, much like the Mississippi/Atchafalaya. This could be why the river only runs (ran?) down this fork intermittantly...

How are they planning to maintain position along the (climbing) shore? At first, they might not have to do anything, as the current is flowing upriver. But I think this will break down as soon as they reach a steeper region. The sideways flow into the riverbed will become a very minor effect, and at that point there will presumably be a broad flow east to pull them away. (Not to mention any potential "friskiness".) Meanwhile, the steep terrain would then make it very difficult to manage things by walking alongside with ropes.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Pikrass » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:39 pm UTC

mikro2nd wrote:Am I the only one having trouble swallowing the idea of the sandcastle-platform having transformed into something that can actually float? Seems a whole lot of unlikely to me, unless LaPetite has been busy tying empty bags/dilgunerrangs/other floaty junk underneath it all the time Megball were travelling, which then begs the question, How did she figure out what was going on and they didn't?

Don't forget that the other stories GLR have made were far from realistic. See Choices, 1337, Journal, Secretary and The Race.
Until LaPetite's boat, TIme have been the most realistic story he made so far. But I guess he can't help it: he has to include silly things. It's just his style. :D
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby speising » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:42 pm UTC

NetWeasel wrote:
Montov wrote:Those nights are coming in quickly! Or is it just a cut to the next scene?

Aw, c'mon, you know how this works...
After a speech like that, there is always a montage sequence of everybody doing everything, helping each other, and briefly pausing to grin at each other as if to say, "You know, this just might work!"

If you put all that into one frame, it looks like this.

But they need a bard singing "build, build, build the raft! "

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jovialbard » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:43 pm UTC

Spoiler:
jovialbard wrote:
KarMann wrote::shock:
Image


From NP 445: I think she was dragging some kind of flotation devices to help her save the castle. What else could it be?


Also, doesn't it look like there's something white attached to the bottom of the platform now that it's floating along the river? It's probably whatever LaPetite used to help it float.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby fatness » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:43 pm UTC

gga2 wrote:A few questions with/without answers:

2. Floatability - {...} I'd say this is some artistic license to think 20 Ceuganites can stay float on this raft.


You are potentially missing Megan's comment "but we have to work fast" which could imply enhancement of the current raft prior to departure. This nicely dovetails into the next (black) frame where such enhancement could be occurring.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlueCrab » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:43 pm UTC

Molpying right along... Firstpost!
colinclout12 wrote:So...regarding the the new Messinian salinity crisis: Wikipedia says (though without citation) "Thus one could predict theoretical temperature maxima of around 80°C (176 °F) at the lowest depths of the dry abyssal plain."!!!! How on earth could they survive that far below sea level?


Hi colinclout12, welcome to the Inside. :wink:
They're not at the absolute bottom, the deepest part of the Sea still had water, and the Med is plenty deep: The Mediterranean Sea has an average depth of 1,500 m (4,900 ft) and the deepest recorded point is 5,267 m (17,280 ft) in the Calypso Deep in the Ionian Sea. (Wikipedia)
I did see an estimate here of 122°F though, which is just about the upper limit for inhabited areas these days.


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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Pikrass » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:44 pm UTC

yappobiscuits wrote:
gga2 wrote:Where does this story go once they get to safety? Assuming they find the rest of their clan (or even if they don't), they are likely to continue going up until they are safe. Then there would be lots of question answer time but where does the plot go from there?

Prediction: They'll find some more of their people stranded on hills, and have to save them - but they won't ALL fit on the raft, so they have to make multiple trips, with more problems to overcome along the way.


And to complicate things, they will have to save a goat, a wolf and a lettuce. (Or alternatively a Japanese family.)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cryptoengineer » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:44 pm UTC

gga2 wrote:A few questions with/without answers:

1. How is the raft moving up next to them? There must have been a river next to the yurt camp, that we can't see because it's beyond our view. I don't think this raft is including wheels.

I think it's been established that the camp was near a 'small river', which was often dry (but never again)
2. Floatability - I've made basic rafts from wood before. Without a hull of a boat which also gives displacement, you need quite a lot of wood to make something buoyant even to hold any weight. I had a large pile of wood lashed together, and could float on it, but it was also hovering around 6" underwater with my weight on it. Even my 25ft long sailboat is only rated for 2000 pounds, and that's a hull not a raft, so I'd say this is some artistic license to think 20 Ceuganites can stay float on this raft.


Um - notice that all the Cueganites are very slim. They don't weigh much. :D

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Newpix after Newpix of jaw dropping OMRness

Postby HES » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:44 pm UTC

That was a big ketchup. I'm going to settle for just this:

taixzo wrote:I know this one has been OTTified before, but I was just thinking about what it would be like from Rosetta's perspective and I had to do this one:
Still Alive
(Based on Still Alive by Jonathan Coulton)


Spoiler:
This is a problem;
I'm making a map here; understand!
Now another sea will come and flood yours!
We are the beanies;
we do what we can because we must.
For the good of all of us,
except the ones that we missed!

But there's no sense crying over those who are gone;
you must say goodbye from here so you can move on!
You have walked too far to die - it is suicide to try!
You must stay here where you're still alive.

And I'm really sorry;
We did not know about your tribe.
Even though we asked the ones who lived there;
You say they don't like you?
So maybe they hoped for you to die.
But you came to us because
you have a future up here;

Now these points we've surveyed make a beautiful line,
and we're sure we're safe inside this castle of mine.
So I'm glad that you're here, you have nothing more to fear
Now you're safe here and you're still alive...

Go 'head and leave me;
I think I prefer to stay inside.
Maybe you'll find someone else to help you.
Maybe the Beanies!
That was a joke: Haha, fat chance.
We will not risk lives for you,
because you stole all our maps!

Look at me still talking when there's science to do,
and I look down there, it makes me glad I'm not you!
There's a torrent coming in, you can't fight it, you can't win!
In the Château d'If, we're still alive.
I'm on a mountain and I'm still alive.
I'm doing research and I'm still alive.
I'm in a castle and I'm still alive.
While you're dying, I'll be still alive.
And when you're dead I will be still alive, still alive, still alive.


Amazing!
He/Him/His Image

Random832
Posts: 2525
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:38 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Random832 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:45 pm UTC

JudeMorrigan wrote:You seem to be overlooking the "not as fresh as a river" part.

That was describing the resulting mix, not their speculation about the ocean itself.

I was saying that there's no reason to think they are assuming there's a limit on how fresh the water will get as the water rises, nothing more.

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nerdsniped
Posts: 159
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby nerdsniped » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:45 pm UTC

speising wrote:But they need a bard singing "build, build, build the raft! "

Arrgh now my brain is spinning through endless permutations of OOTS / XKCD crossover storylines! I'm going to be stuck on that all day.
New to the Time thread? Click here!

"we are dangerously close to answers. Let's hope they lead to more questions..." -- HES

"Expect friskiness." -- keithl

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fatness
Posts: 178
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Location: Sometime last week

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby fatness » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:45 pm UTC

BlueCrab wrote:I did see an estimate here of 122°F though, which is just about the upper limit for inhabited areas these days.


You haven't been in Phoenix in September then... :twisted:

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rvloon
Posts: 295
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Location: Genk, Belgium

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby rvloon » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:47 pm UTC

You know, it's just a matter of Time before Randall does an xkcd about the OTT where everyone will be like 'Molpy? Chirp?' what is he on about, while everyone here will notice nothing unusual other than 'it's all related'.

Ronald
Spoiler:
I followed Time until The End and I cannot even buy a chirping T-shirt.

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ucim
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Location: The One True Thread

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ucim » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:53 pm UTC

nerdsniped wrote:How are they planning to maintain position along the (climbing) shore? At first, they might not have to do anything, as the current is flowing upriver. But I think this will break down as soon as they reach a steeper region. The sideways flow into the riverbed will become a very minor effect, and at that point there will presumably be a broad flow east to pull them away. (Not to mention any potential "friskiness".) Meanwhile, the steep terrain would then make it very difficult to manage things by walking alongside with ropes.
At that point they could get off and climb. It would be faster then anyway, and would not risk being adrift hundreds of miles offshore in a frisky sea.

Jose
Order of the Sillies, Honoris Causam - bestowed by charlie_grumbles on NP 859 * OTTscar winner: Wordsmith - bestowed by yappobiscuts and the OTT on NP 1832 * Ecclesiastical Calendar of the Order of the Holy Contradiction * Please help addams if you can. She needs all of us.

Zorin_75
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:33 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Zorin_75 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:54 pm UTC

Pikrass wrote:And to complicate things, they will have to save a goat, a wolf and a lettuce. (Or alternatively a Japanese family.)

Why do they have a wolf?
Go Minim go!


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