1190: "Time"

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Aaeriele » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:21 pm UTC

And #50000.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:22 pm UTC

I just de-comaed so numbers don't really make sense yet. But yay 50,000!

Opiboble wrote:And incase no one noticed the sub text has changed again.

What about the Javascript? Has anyone noticed that?
It's okay, we forgive you. :wink:

Oh, so this is how it goes, huh?
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Optional decree: Ask about the title text, the Javascript, or some other very good question that the OTT has already figured out.
Last edited by BlitzGirl on Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:24 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Random832 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:23 pm UTC

I feel like a failure.

I did the raw data analysis of word frequencies in 50 page groups for page 1 through 1200, only to only then discover that I couldn't figure out how to put it in an interesting-looking graph.

I'll post the raw data in the thread as soon as I re-run it (I mangled the original file in my first attempts at making graphs)

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Arky » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:25 pm UTC

As I molpy down for the night, I leave this prediction: that the alt text will change to "it" either next newpix (if we jump straight to a zoom out) or at the end of a zoomout sequence (if GLR spreads the zoom over multiple newpix), showing the new and massively detailed area in which the 40 find themselves, complete with a ruined castle of their very own.

And thus will end Time.

ETA: The thread of time has passed 50,000 posts! Amazing!
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Wildhound » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:26 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:I think Joseph Gordon-Levitt is the man you want to talk to...
(Would that also make the Loopists happy?)


This. This! A thousand times this!!

Decree: Anyone know what the Javascript does?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:29 pm UTC

I wonder if Cueball is saying "Wow" for the trees or for something else off-frame that we can't see this newpix?

I just got a message from one of our blitzers! :D
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3 pretty neat, and bigger than it looked - your quest, the thread, and all!

Thanks, Marsh'n! Did you notice that the title text has changed? Oh, you're a long way from that yet. But one dip, you will notice!
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Whizbang » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:30 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:
Image
Optional decree: Ask about the title text, the Javascript, or some other very good question that the OTT has already figured out.



You know, I was just thinking that the in-rushing sea/ocean would be a good metaphor for cancer... or a baby... or se(a)men.

I don't see coffee, though.

Has anyone noticed the Wiki yet?

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:33 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:
Image
Optional decree: Ask about the title text, the Javascript, or some other very good question
that the OTT has already figured out.

Did we ever figure out why the sea is rising in the first place??
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Random832 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:33 pm UTC

I have a question about the Javascript

Why are the images hashed? As I understand it, they can't be downloaded from the server until the ONG anyway, and the javascript didn't exist IIRC until a while after the comic started, so why not just use regular timestamps or frame numbers for the filenames?

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Flado » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:37 pm UTC

Angelastic, way back on NP 818, wrote:
fhorn wrote:(Stopped studying math in HS when it conflicted with Music Theory. Can we discuss the Circle of Fifths instead, mebbe?

I studied maths in university and the quickest way to make me feel like an illiterate idiot is to use a lot of music theory terms. I only know what was in GEB, Euler's letters to a princess, Leon Harkleroad's 'The Math Behind the Music', and Vi Hart's videos, and I didn't completely understand those since I still only had a vague hypothesis (involving group theory) about what the apparently-too-basic-to-explain terms meant. But just recently I listened to an introductory music theory audiobook, the kind that actually goes some way towards explaining the words used to explain the most basic musical concepts, and I realised that (as I had suspected) all these fancy terms defined in terms of each other, they're just mathematics. With a whole lot of ordinal numbers that sound like they're fractions but have nothing to do with the actual ratios of frequencies, just to throw us off the trail. And you know what? The circle of fifths is just a cyclic group of order 12 (involving multiples of approximately 4/3), described in an overcomplicated way. You hear me? You're doing maths, you are! You're just expressing the beauty of mathematics in sound!

And here's the closing parenthesis I snipped. )

I am having the exact same problems with music theory. Do you think you could tell me the name of that audiobook? I love cyclic groups. I prefer the ones lacking divisors of zero, though 8-)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:39 pm UTC

I wonder if all of the Forty are going to exit the raft, or just a few of them. I'd like to see LaPetite again soon. Image But maybe she will stay and guard the Raftcastle...
I was also hoping that Cueball and Megan would get a little more private time ( Image ), but nooooo.

Random832 wrote:Why are the images hashed? As I understand it, they can't be downloaded from the server until the ONG anyway, and the javascript didn't exist IIRC until a while after the comic started, so why not just use regular timestamps or frame numbers for the filenames?

Maybe Randall is just messing with us? Could all this be some sort of...nerd-sniping game?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:42 pm UTC

ucim wrote:Do the Cuegan know how high up they are, or where they are with respect to safe ground? The sea is presumably still filling up; it might be foolish to stray too far just yet, unless they know they won't be trapped.

Jose

The IPad with the maps has gps, so likely yes.

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Ashaman wrote:
NetWeasel wrote:Edit: Also, Megan's got the map. I wonder if we might get a look at it. I'm guessing no.

I'd like a look at it too, but suspect we won't see it. But the map is suddenly a lot less useful, since it mostly describes the newly wetted sea floor. Our crew seems to have no tools for dead-reckoning while drifting, and can't keep track of landmarks after they are submerged. They probably have only the vaguest guess as to where they are currently.

Not at all true. At least not for someone who has navigated near a coastline. Quite accurate positions are possible using prominent features on the shore. In principle they could know quite well where they are
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby hajo » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:43 pm UTC

Random832 wrote:I have a question about the Javascript
Why are the images hashed? As I understand it, they can't be downloaded from the server until the ONG anyway

Most likely, to keep people from guessing & hammering the server.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby taixzo » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:44 pm UTC

charlie_grumbles wrote:@BlitzGirl. Happy 2k
@taixzo. Happy .5k
@Otters. Hapy 50k
( not-geek k, of course)


Huh. I have posted exactly 1% of all posts on the OTT.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby TimeLurker » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:45 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:Molpy up! 2000 posts, yay!
<snip>
Sandcastle 2.0! :D
<snip>
TimeLurker wrote:I'd like to see Bruce Willis as Cueball. The age is all wrong though. Can we get a young Bruce? :D

I think Joseph Gordon-Levitt is the man you want to talk to...
(Would that also make the Loopists happy?)

Congrats on 2,000!!! :D
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Whizbang » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:45 pm UTC

Random832 wrote:As I understand it, they can't be downloaded from the server until the ONG anyway, ...?


Is this true? How can we know this if the filenames are hashed? How can we possibly guess a correct filename to see if you can download it before the ONG?

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby hajo » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:51 pm UTC

Whizbang wrote:I don't see coffee, though.

That means, you probably do it wrong:
* First , SEEK coffee
* then, you DRINK it :D

But, maybe it is just too weak to be seen (i.e. too close to water) ?
Or wrong glasses 8-)
Last edited by hajo on Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:54 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ucim » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:52 pm UTC

charlie_grumbles wrote:Not at all true. At least not for someone who has navigated near a coastline. Quite accurate positions are possible using prominent features on the shore. In principle they could know quite well where they are
Yes, but have you done it while the coastline was changing?

@BlitzGirl: Happy 2000! Boy these numbers go by fast in the OTT. It's almost like the sea is rising!

(Why is the sea rising? Is this supposed to be sometime in the future?)

taixzo wrote:Huh. I have posted exactly 1% of all posts on the OTT.
Can you keep up? :) Happy five hundred!

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:52 pm UTC

Mini-Image. (You step away from the OTT for a couple of newpix...)

⁴² ottification, mikro2nd! And taixzo, a truly sea¹ish one, in more than one way! Image
Awefulsome demotivational poster, NetWeasel!

Happy 2000th, BlitzGirl! I don't really ‘do’ centennial cakes anymore (plenty of people are, so no huge miss), but I'll make an exception for the 2000th.
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And happy 50,000th to us all!
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And jay, we're on land! With new ⁷trees! Can't wait to find out what happens now.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:53 pm UTC

charlie_grumbles wrote:
Ashaman wrote:
NetWeasel wrote:Megan's got the map. I wonder if we might get a look at it. I'm guessing no.

I'd like a look at it too, but suspect we won't see it. But the map is suddenly a lot less useful, since it mostly describes the newly wetted sea floor. Our crew seems to have no tools for dead-reckoning while drifting, and can't keep track of landmarks after they are submerged. They probably have only the vaguest guess as to where they are currently.

Not at all true. At least not for someone who has navigated near a coastline. Quite accurate positions are possible using prominent features on the shore. In principle they could know quite well where they are

The Beanies were surveying -- it would be so nice to get a good topo map out of that atlas....
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Zorin_75 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:54 pm UTC

Random832 wrote:Why are the images hashed? As I understand it, they can't be downloaded from the server until the ONG anyway, and the javascript didn't exist IIRC until a while after the comic started, so why not just use regular timestamps or frame numbers for the filenames?

Two separate issues - the javascript just automagically loads the new image for you. The hashes OTOH are there precicesly because if you knew the filename you could indeed look ahead (we obviously don't know by how much, theories range from GLR being busy drawing just-in-sequence for the ONG to everything already being ready and just waiting to be published).

ETA: :oops: totally missed the momal decree you were obviously following...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Whizbang » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:56 pm UTC

hajo wrote:
Whizbang wrote:I don't see coffee, though.

That means, you probably do it wrong:
* First , SEEK coffee
* then, you DRINK it :D

But, maybe it is just too weak to be seen ?
Or wrong glasses 8-)


Yeah, but the sea is obviously not made of coffee. The first thing they did when they joined rafts is to build a shelter and fall asleep. Maybe the sand is coffee, though. Megan was playing with the sand and was up before anyone else, or maybe all night.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:56 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:
Image
Optional decree: Ask about the title text, the Javascript, or some other very good question
that the OTT has already figured out.

Why do they have little tables covered in sand?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Opiboble » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:58 pm UTC

NetWeasel wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:
Image
Optional decree: Ask about the title text, the Javascript, or some other very good question
that the OTT has already figured out.

Why do they have little tables covered in sand?

It's part of the ritual to change the java script.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:00 pm UTC

Opiboble wrote:
NetWeasel wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:
Image
Optional decree: Ask about the title text, the Javascript, or some other very good question
that the OTT has already figured out.

Why do they have little tables covered in sand?

It's part of the ritual to change the java script.

Ah. That explains the sandcoffee...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:01 pm UTC

Whizbang wrote:
Random832 wrote:As I understand it, they can't be downloaded from the server until the ONG anyway, ...?

Is this true? How can we know this if the filenames are hashed? How can we possibly guess a correct filename to see if you can download it before the ONG?

The images are hosted on a CDN. (Or were, at least. imgs.xkcd.com used to point to a CDN, now it just appears to be an IP-address in the US.) So, he can't (couldn't) upload or move them at the right second, hence the unpredictable file names. (Which probably aren't hashes, just random hexadecimal strings.)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby odaiwai » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:02 pm UTC

Querying LocatiONG...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Fictioneer » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:03 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:I wonder if all of the Forty are going to exit the raft, or just a few of them. I'd like to see LaPetite again soon.


There you go, she's scampering on ahead!

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Random832 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:04 pm UTC

hajo wrote:
Random832 wrote:I have a question about the Javascript
Why are the images hashed? As I understand it, they can't be downloaded from the server until the ONG anyway

Most likely, to keep people from guessing & hammering the server.


Er, aren't the hashes generated by the javascript? Don't they have to be, to be able to update without hitting F5 (which I'm led to believe is the whole point of the javascript)

I didn't have the impression that there was anything (other than the contents of the images themselves) that was a secret only provided to the client at the time of the update. If there is, what is it? How are the hashes generated so that the javascript knows what image to fetch?
Last edited by Random832 on Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:05 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:04 pm UTC

CUEBALL: Where do you think we are?
MEGAN: I don't know.

TOM SERVO: What's that thing in your hand?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:06 pm UTC

Fictioneer wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:I wonder if all of the Forty are going to exit the raft, or just a few of them. I'd like to see LaPetite again soon.

There you go, she's scampering on ahead!

Hurray! I approve of the Forty's strategy of sending the children and elderly out first to check for raptorcats...

(Did anyone just see the image change? How weird is that?)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Random832 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:07 pm UTC

mscha wrote:
Whizbang wrote:
Random832 wrote:As I understand it, they can't be downloaded from the server until the ONG anyway, ...?

Is this true? How can we know this if the filenames are hashed? How can we possibly guess a correct filename to see if you can download it before the ONG?

The images are hosted on a CDN. (Or were, at least. imgs.xkcd.com used to point to a CDN, now it just appears to be an IP-address in the US.) So, he can't (couldn't) upload or move them at the right second, hence the unpredictable file names. (Which probably aren't hashes, just random hexadecimal strings.)


I thought that the hashes were generated by javascript to fetch the image? If not, how is the image fetched, and what stops you from 'setting the clock forward' on it?

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby neopifex » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:08 pm UTC

NetWeasel wrote:CUEBALL: Where do you think we are?
MEGAN: I don't know.

TOM SERVO: What's that thing in your hand?


It's a piece of the Sampo, obviously.
C'mon, let's see what's through here!

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Charm Quark » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:08 pm UTC

Hmmm...eventually the western part of the Mediterranean will start to overflow past Sicily and into the eastern part of the Mediterranean. At that point the sea level in the western part, where the Cueganites are, will stay constant for a while until the eastern half of the Mediterranean catches up. Could that be what's happening now?

Also, happy 2000th BlitzGirl! Image
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Lost forever in time...

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:09 pm UTC

Random832 wrote:
Spoiler:
hajo wrote:
Random832 wrote:I have a question about the Javascript
Why are the images hashed? As I understand it, they can't be downloaded from the server until the ONG anyway

Most likely, to keep people from guessing & hammering the server.
Er, aren't the hashes generated by the javascript? Don't they have to be, to be able to update without hitting F5 (which I'm led to believe is the whole point of the javascript)
I didn't have the impression that there was anything (other than the contents of the images themselves) that was a secret only provided to the client at the time of the update. If there is, what is it? How are the hashes generated so that the javascript knows what image to fetch?

The hashes are not hashes, just random hexadecimal strings. They're not generated by the Javascript, but retrieved. It opens a connection to c?.xkcd.com (where ? is a digit), then waits for that server to send back a new image URL, which it will, soon after newpix time.
Last edited by mscha on Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:12 pm UTC, edited 3 times in total.
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Default footnotes; standard OTT-np2166m 1.2:
Spoiler:
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nerdsniped
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby nerdsniped » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:09 pm UTC

NetWeasel wrote:CUEBALL: Where do you think we are?
MEGAN: I don't know.

TOM SERVO: What's that thing in your hand?

Ah, I miss 'ol Tom.

But seriously, they have a big decision to make right now. If this is an island, they need to get back on the raft and stand ready to pole away from the trees. If not, they need to offload whatever supplies are worth carrying and head uphill, possibly RUNning.

I wonder if "..." reflects this uncertainty. Maybe the previous instance of "..." was mustard (the plan might have been to go directly from Wait For It to RUN).

(What's this "ONG" everyone keeps talking about?)
New to the Time thread? Click here!

"we are dangerously close to answers. Let's hope they lead to more questions..." -- HES

"Expect friskiness." -- keithl

Random832
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Random832 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:10 pm UTC

What they should do in case flooding resumes is have someone stay with the boat with a rope to keep the boat near the shore by walking it up, rather than tying it to anything (which could result in it being tied to a submerged point) or simply leaving it.

The rational course of action now is to A) determine the location, if possible, B) gather supplies, and C) be ready to get back on the boat if flooding resumes. Long-term they should probably head east along the shore to (on the assumption that they're still relatively near their river) find their way to familiar terrain
Last edited by Random832 on Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:12 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Opiboble
It's Machine Code.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Opiboble » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:11 pm UTC

NetWeasel wrote:
Opiboble wrote:
NetWeasel wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:
Image
Optional decree: Ask about the title text, the Javascript, or some other very good question
that the OTT has already figured out.

Why do they have little tables covered in sand?

It's part of the ritual to change the java script.

Ah. That explains the sandcoffee...

Yup.

Also did you guys notice they don't know where they are?
Sea1(Big) River2(Small) Tree3(Neat) Camp4(Old) River5(Pretty Neat) Place6(beautiful & empty) Found7(Ribbit) Bigtree8(It knows)
Tools of the OTT and OTC:
Map-Newpix Viewer-OTT Stats-Vytron Comic Sciscitor graphs

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TimeLurker
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby TimeLurker » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:12 pm UTC

Per Decree (from NP0001)
Alsadius wrote:I can't tell if Randall is trying to be deep, or just trying to take a day off work.


Actually, go back and read NP0001. It's a lot of fun, but be careful not to fall into a Blitz.
Last edited by TimeLurker on Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:15 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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charlie_grumbles
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:15 pm UTC

ucim wrote:
charlie_grumbles wrote:Not at all true. At least not for someone who has navigated near a coastline. Quite accurate positions are possible using prominent features on the shore. In principle they could know quite well where they are
Yes, but have you done it while the coastline was changing?

Coastal navigation doesn't depend on the immediate shore, but on things that can be seen above the shore. Tops of hills, IRL lots of manmade things like water towers, etc. If you can orient the map to the terrain you are in pretty good shape. A compass helps, of course, but that is actually a possibility here. And note that they have lots of terrain above them all across the North.

But of course this has become moot given the latest frame.
Lurking. Watching. Thinking. Writing. Waiting.
-- Charlie Grumbles


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