1190: "Time"

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SBN » Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:08 pm UTC

ucim wrote:
And Belial, welcome to our community.

Jose

Indeed. There's a title of Revealer the Recent here for you if you want it.
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Time Revisited - np372

Postby mscha » Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:10 pm UTC

SPRUNGKEEPER...
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Spoiler:
Wait for it.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby taixzo » Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:22 pm UTC

balthasar_s wrote:All their material wants? No. The wants know no limit and will continue to grow infinitely.
All their basic needs? A second layer of magic would be required to determine the border between the true, basic needs and everything else.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Sciscitor » Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:31 pm UTC

balthasar_s wrote:DISTRACTION!
See what happens if you try to view Newpage -1 on the mirror.

Wow balthasar! You are doing great work there. I know what effort goes into such things, and it is very nice to know, that we won't run out of newpages anytime soon. :)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Belial » Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:52 pm UTC

karhell wrote:In the sense of waste. Typical case : something clearly gone-off will be unceremoniously thrown in the bin with maybe a "oh well, I'll buy some more". This leads to industries overproducing, draining the soils of minerals and the rivers of water to support an ever growing demand that is quite unnecessary.

At least, that's how I see things. Maybe I'm biased, maybe I don't see the whole picture (probably, even), but that's my opinion for the time being.


I'm thinking that in a post-scarcity situation where you're capable of producing infinite resources at zero cost, waste just...doesn't matter? Like, if you have a potentially infinite quantity of food and producing it causes no harm, does throwing it away matter?

Dracomax wrote:The reson That america(which I would argue is largely failing for the same reasons I've already given) is not falling into the death spiral is not We want things that don't exist. It's we need to continue working and doing stuff so we can continue having those basic necessities, and so that we can get other stuff we want.


Sure, largely because of a manufactured wealth disparity, but do you then imagine that people in the developing world innovate more than americans do, because they're challenged more? For that matter, do you imagine that the working poor in this country are at the forefront of science, industry, and the arts? I'd argue that it's exactly the reverse: the ongoing struggle to accumulate the resources to feed, clothe, shelter, and entertain ourselves saps away all the energy that one could use to pursue other things. Which is why we even have concepts like "generational poverty" and "the intellectual class".

I absolutely agree that fixing that would create new problems, but everything we do to solve our old problems creates new problems, starting somewhere around "Agriculture". That doesn't mean we should stop solving them out of some notion that we need those particular problems. I am reminded of a comic.

ucim wrote:But also, lack of energy and material goods do not necessarily make things shitty, and it's easy to destroy a happy culture by supplying them with stuff they didn't know they needed to want.


Yeah, but usually because some outside force (Usually an outside force with a pale face and a european accent) creates an artificial need, and then controls the supply, thus reorienting the entire society toward their own ends. That situation would be analogous to our hypothetical aliens providing us the replicators, but requiring us to work in the tungsten mines or dance in their bars in order to pay for power cells to run them.

Whereas this is a need that we already have, and they'd be supplying the means to satisfy it indefinitely. It's like...the exact opposite.

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ucim wrote:
And Belial, welcome to our community.

Jose

Indeed. There's a title of Revealer the Recent here for you if you want it.


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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby slinches » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:04 pm UTC

Dracomax wrote:There is a reason that the saying is "necessity is the mother of invention" and I just am not as optimistic about peoples ability to do difficult things for no material reward. I've seen it tried, time after time, and history doesn't really support it.

I find this statement a bit ironic considering where it's posted. Is the OTT (and xkcd fora in general) not the perfect counter-example? How many creative projects have been posted here (not to mention the amount of work the Mods and site administrators put in) and how many have had some sort of monetary reward for it? True, we may not be representative of the general population, but not everyone has to be similarly motivated if the cost of goods is essentially zero. At least with their wants and needs provided for, the people who would choose not to produce anything new wouldn't need support from those who do.

The issue of unlimited energy == really big bomb is more of a problem to me. It means every crazy person in the world has instant access to extremely powerful weapons. Unless that issue is mitigated, I think the first thing to happen if you except the offer is that someone would try to blow up the aliens.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby AluisioASG » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:11 pm UTC

ggh wrote:Thought experiment for the pope: sometimes I ask people: if an alien/advanced being came to you and offered to give everyone on earth two devices: one that provides a near-limitless supply of energy, and one that can make anything, providing that the plans are known for the thing in question would you accept the offer?

Spoiler:
It could possibly lead us to a post-scarcity future. But before that, I predict a sharp decline in human population during the first 6 nopix.

What follows next depends on the assumption that the second device requires the user to know the full design the target object.

Or it could bankrupt energy companies, kill a couple million people for meddling with their electrical system irresponsibly, and solidify that dotted line. What happens next depends on our new bossesYEAH!!!: if they're kind enough, everyone will be able to readwrite blueprints in one or two generations.

Will science progress absurdly fast? Will we eliminate poverty? I guess not, at least in the short term: even though we can now ignore the requirements for the build and execution phases, we still need to plan and design things.

Alternative scenario: someone, somewhere, will ask for something extremely dumb. Thus ends life on Earth.


yappo wrote:
Spoiler:
Image


There. Send the aliens to talk with otters instead.

ggh wrote:If everyone starving anywhere suddenly had a fully stocked fridge, indoor plumbing and a Prius, is that good or bad?

Spoiler:
Then the problem stops being material and starts being psychological (selfishness, greed etc.).
My solution:
  1. Select volunteers which have a suitable mental model and desirable qualities. Make sure they're diverse enough and in large number.
  2. Isolate the volunteers from the rest of the world, putting them into an environment that benefits the desired behaviors and attributes.
  3. Let them inbreed for some generations, removing undesirable individuals from the experiment. Eventually the target population will be able to perform this last part by themselves.
  4. Mix and bake for half a longpix.
  5. Profit!
This has 93.48% probability of going wrong, which is consistent with the fact I don't have an oven.


All this talk about post-scarcity reminds me of a series I've never read.

Spoiler:
One question: it seems the most issues with this scenario boil down to “human nature”. If that's the case, can we assume “human nature” is, for our purposes, the brain and its associated physical processes?


Well, enough of talking about a subject I know nothing about, possibly mixing my intended thoughts with my hungriness. Time to get back to those trees.

ggh wrote:<parentheses>

)

ggh wrote:Then I'd eat dinner whilst taking a shower

Is this a new application of “Yo Dawg”?

ucim wrote:The logistics of that make my head asplode.

Same here. Except it didn't.

yappo wrote:it's not the rain that smells, its just the other outside-smells made stronger.

The world is quite homogeneous, smell-wise.

ucim wrote:We give ants tasty food that they take back to their nests.... that kills them.

That's new. I thought they ate fungi. Does our food kill the fungi?

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I, for one, am more inclined to call Belial “O Mighty Crow”.

taixzo wrote:Does that mean the OTT mirror will break when we have more than 4 billion pages on the OTT?

Then we'll move to 64-bits, giving us 252+ billion pages.

Ok, now to those trees…
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Belial » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:14 pm UTC

slinches wrote:The issue of unlimited energy == really big bomb is more of a problem to me.


One could assume that by "unlimited energy" one means something that generates a finite amount of energy-per-second (though presumably enough to power the replicator and anything else in your house you might want to plug into it) over an infinite time period.

Or, to be more obvious about the point of the hypothetical: "Just assume you can't turn it into a bomb"

AluisioASG wrote:I, for one, am more inclined to call Belial “O Mighty Crow”.


Okay, wait, yes, that.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Dracomax » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:27 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
slinches wrote:The issue of unlimited energy == really big bomb is more of a problem to me.


One could assume that by "unlimited energy" one means something that generates a finite amount of energy-per-second (though presumably enough to power the replicator and anything else in your house you might want to plug into it) over an infinite time period.

Or, to be more obvious about the point of the hypothetical: "Just assume you can't turn it into a bomb"

AluisioASG wrote:I, for one, am more inclined to call Belial “O Mighty Crow”.


Okay, wait, yes, that.

So, effectively enough energy to incinerate the planet, as the replicator would require enough energy to break matter down, and then create matter to an atomic blueprint, at minimum.

Really, what it comes down to is that I can foresee terrible consequences of the technology, and don't even have to try very hard. and it is going to be given to everyone, including newborn babies.

I wouldn't give a lit match or a lighter to a toddler. Fire is good. Everything humanity has done to build society comes from fire. That doesn't mean I should give it to someone who has no understanding of fire, nor respect for it's dangers.

In the end, while I agree that post scarcity is something we should aim for, until such time as we are able to achieve it for ourselves, I just don't believe the risk can be justified, any more than handing an active nuclear plant to every person in the world would be a good idea.
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Time After Time: t1i-0832

Postby mscha » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:30 pm UTC

ONGRIER...
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Spoiler:
Wait for it.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ucim » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:33 pm UTC

Belial wrote:I'm thinking that in a post-scarcity situation where you're capable of producing infinite resources at zero cost, waste just...doesn't matter? Like, if you have a potentially infinite quantity of food and producing it causes no harm, does throwing it away matter?
Uh... the sea is big, but is it that big?

Belial wrote:do you then imagine that people in the developing world innovate more than americans do, because they're challenged more? For that matter, do you imagine that the working poor in this country are at the forefront of science, industry, and the arts?
I doubt they are inventing faster computers or space rockets, but some years back I saw a film on pottery in developing countries (my wife is a potter) and was amazed at how much they accomplish with next to nothing, that we in more developed countries have forgotten all about. However, it's not the tech itself that's the problem, it's the sudden influx. Solve hunger? We can probably handle the unintended consequences. Unlimited goods and power? Nope. Trumped by unlimited stupidity.

O Mighty Crow Belial wrote:Or, to be more obvious about the point of the hypothetical: "Just assume you can't turn it into a bomb"
Could you turn it into a rocketship? Could you fly really really fast on your return trip? Could you forget to turn on the brakes?

Maybe that's what happened to Antares.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Belial » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:37 pm UTC

Dracomax wrote:In the end, while I agree that post scarcity is something we should aim for, until such time as we are able to achieve it for ourselves, I just don't believe the risk can be justified, any more than handing an active nuclear plant to every person in the world would be a good idea.


I mean, we let people drive without requiring them to build their own internal combustion engines (or demonstrate the knowledge necessary to do the same). I'd wager 99% of people using computers couldn't tell you exactly how they work on a detailed mechanical level (actually, I'd wager that most couldn't even do it on even abstract levels). The knowledge necessary to safely use an invention and the knowledge necessary to build it oneself are highly disparate. We're all using tech that we couldn't have built.

Assuming we're treating this as an actual technological thing and not a way of saying "everyone is comfortable through magic" (which was, I think, the intent of the hypothetical), I would assume that the training necessary to safely use the replicators would be pretty simple (and, assuming they were basically home electronics for aliens, that they'd have some form of automatic safeties in much the way that microwaves won't let you cook your brain). I would also assume that we'd reverse engineer the things as soon as possible, thus satisfying even the more stringent "know exactly how it works" requirement.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Dracomax » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:41 pm UTC

ucim wrote:
Belial wrote:I'm thinking that in a post-scarcity situation where you're capable of producing infinite resources at zero cost, waste just...doesn't matter? Like, if you have a potentially infinite quantity of food and producing it causes no harm, does throwing it away matter?
Uh... the sea is big, but is it that big?

Belial wrote:do you then imagine that people in the developing world innovate more than americans do, because they're challenged more? For that matter, do you imagine that the working poor in this country are at the forefront of science, industry, and the arts?
I doubt they are inventing faster computers or space rockets, but some years back I saw a film on pottery in developing countries (my wife is a potter) and was amazed at how much they accomplish with next to nothing, that we in more developed countries have forgotten all about. However, it's not the tech itself that's the problem, it's the sudden influx. Solve hunger? We can probably handle the unintended consequences. Unlimited goods and power? Nope. Trumped by unlimited stupidity.

O Mighty Crow Belial wrote:Or, to be more obvious about the point of the hypothetical: "Just assume you can't turn it into a bomb"
Could you turn it into a rocketship? Could you fly really really fast on your return trip? Could you forget to turn on the brakes?

Maybe that's what happened to Antares.

Jose

Also, I really can't assume that, given that almost anything can be turned into a bomb, and energy can not be contained in such a way as to make bomb like devices impossible.

Basically, if it can be used to heat water, it is possible to make into a bomb. If it uses any kind of energy containment, it is possible to make into a bomb. If it produces enough energy to run a particle accelerator, it can be turned into an atomic bomb. Heck, 9/11 should have taught us that just taking a large flying object and throwing it at a building is enough to be, for all intents and purposes, a bomb.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Belial » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:47 pm UTC

Dracomax wrote:Also, I really can't assume that, given that almost anything can be turned into a bomb, and energy can not be contained in such a way as to make bomb like devices impossible.


I will stop trying to modify the hypothetical to get around this problem (as it's not my hypothetical anyway) and say: I feel like the hypothetical was more geared at "would having all our needs met be a good or bad thing" and not "would this hypothetical technology itself be a good or bad thing". The technology is just there as a handwave at creating the dilemma. It's a bit like going at the train problem by coming up with an elaborate plan to rescue everyone using one's knowledge of train-switching systems. Except in this case it's a much less elaborate plan to blow everyone up.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Dracomax » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:49 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
Dracomax wrote:Also, I really can't assume that, given that almost anything can be turned into a bomb, and energy can not be contained in such a way as to make bomb like devices impossible.


I feel like the hypothetical was more geared at "would having all our needs met be a good or bad thing" and not "would this hypothetical technology itself be a good or bad thing". It's a bit like going at the train problem by coming up with an elaborate plan to rescue everyone. Except in this case it's a much less elaborate plan to blow everyone up.

THis is why I hate hypothetical situations, as opposed to straight questions.

THe answer to that is simple. Is it good to be children?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ucim » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:56 pm UTC

The Mighty Crow Belial wrote:I feel like the hypothetical was more geared at "would having all our needs met be a good or bad thing"...
Sounds like it would be a good thing, and that's the point of charity, welfare, and disaster relief. But it has unintended consequences, not the least of which come from the fact that our physical needs are just a small part of our needs, and the two play off each other in unexpected ways. It's like building bigger streets and expecting them to not draw more traffic.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SBN » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:59 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
SBN wrote:
ucim wrote:
And Belial, welcome to our community.

Jose

Indeed. There's a title of Revealer the Recent here for you if you want it.


Sure, why not.

Welcome, Belial, Revealer the Recent!

Yeah, that's the whole ceremony. Also a full list of perks and benefits of the title. For anyone that wants it, and hasn't had the title officially bestowed, just ask and someone will do the bestowing.
AluisioASG wrote:I, for one, am more inclined to call Belial “O Mighty Crow”.

Belial wrote:Okay, wait, yes, that.

There's no limit on how many titles one can hold.
Welcome, The Mighty Crow, Belial, Revealer the Recent!
(Apologies if that isn't the proper format.)

Belial wrote: "would having all our needs met be a good or bad thing"

Yes. Most assuredly, yes.

Edit: fixed quotes
Last edited by SBN on Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:02 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Sciscitor » Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:01 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
slinches wrote:The issue of unlimited energy == really big bomb is more of a problem to me.

One could assume that by "unlimited energy" one means something that generates a finite amount of energy-per-second (though presumably enough to power the replicator and anything else in your house you might want to plug into it) over an infinite time period.

Or, to be more obvious about the point of the hypothetical: "Just assume you can't turn it into a bomb".

I'd say that there are two aspects in gghs initial question: Physical and social/psychological.

The physics part is easy: No matter how the influx of energy is distributed over time (bomb vs small trickle to power various household items) it will inevitably lead to the heat death of earth, as others have pointed out before me quite succinctly and correctly).

The other aspect is tricky, but boils down to one simple question: Do I trust the intentions and intelligence of my fellow human beings?
While it is quite possibly universally acknowledged that reducing or eliminating suffering is a good thing and something to strive for it has to be balanced in this scenario with the general insanity and folly of humankind. Hence the moral dilemma. As intelligence is probably the most fairly distributed resource on the planet (a vast majority would agree that they've got plenty of it, thank you very much) I really doubt that anything good will come out of it - and that is not even accounting for bad intentions. The best thing that could (but probably would not) happen is Belial's scenario: The mustard hits the fan - only on a much higher level of comfort. To put it bluntly: Being free of material needs does not make for better morals. People who strive for knowledge, ethics or general altruistic behaviour will continue to do so, but with more time and resources at their desposal and much good will come out of it. On the other hand there will always be people who will abuse their newfound free time and material wealth and much grief and pain will come out of it. Thirdly there will be those who just slack down and do nothing but enjoy a careless life. So pretty much nothing has changed in this account. You have to weigh the risks of this with the level of suffering as it is now.

The only thing I am sure of is this: I would not want to be the one who has to choose.

ETA: Partially but heavily ninja'd. Fixed attribution of question.
And: Could we please have some cupcakes or molpies? Val? BG? Yappo? Anyone?
Last edited by Sciscitor on Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:15 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby macraw83 » Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:06 pm UTC

Well this is certainly an interesting off-topic topic. This seems like it would make for a very good series of What-If questions.

My two cents:

Spoiler:
I'm wondering about the implications of the replicators. Do they create matter? If so, gradually the earth would gain mass, and it would be thrown off its current orbit. Not being an expert in astronomy, I have no idea what effects this could have, but I'd imagine that all of them would be bad.

If they don't "create" matter, where do they get it from? Is it generated from the air? If so, I could see this quickly depleting our atmosphere within a few hundred years, at least to the point where there are serious ramifications on many natural balances. If it is teleported from somewhere else on Earth, how would it select its targets? If it is teleported from somewhere off-planet, that would cause the same issues as before.

Contrary to what some people have been saying, I find waste to be a huge problem in this scenario. Where do we put it all? We think we have pollution issues right now, with only about 20% of the world's population living in industrialized areas that contribute the most pollution, wait until 100% of the world has even more stuff than even the most wasteful ones have now.

I just see way too many potential headaches for this to be a viable option, even when considering the many awesomeful benefits. I think that, in general, most people would not use them responsibly, and it would probably end up becoming the cause of the fall of civilization as we know it. Eventually.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SBN » Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:09 pm UTC

Sciscitor wrote:I'd say that there are two aspects in SBN initial question: Physical and social/psychological.

Not mine, ggh. Just for precision. I know we're hanging out together at the OTTscars, you probably couldn't tell in the crowd who said it.

Think I'll make a run at the snack table before part 2 starts.
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Time Revisited - np374

Postby mscha » Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:10 pm UTC

CHUNGEABLENESSES...
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Spoiler:
Wait for it.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby karhell » Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:37 pm UTC

Belial wrote:Or, to be more obvious about the point of the hypothetical: "Just assume you can't turn it into a bomb"

My maths teacher used to say "If something stupid is possible, it's already been done. If it's impossible, it will be done." ^^

This one's for BlitzGirl ^^
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ColletArrow, katakissa, iskinner, thunk, GnomeAnne, Quantized, and any other Blitzers, have fun on your journey!

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby yappobiscuits » Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:40 pm UTC

Sciscitor wrote:And: Could we please have some cupcakes or molpies? Val? BG? Yappo? Anyone?

Yeah, sorry! This is all very interesting off-topicness that I'm enjoying reading along with but don't have anything to add myself. :P
Your regularly scheduled molpies will resume shortly.

Here are some now.
OTTscars results Pt. 2 coming... eventually, but not from me. Seeking writer.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Angua » Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:45 pm UTC

I personally don't think it's a great idea to say to all the starving people in the world - sorry, but you can't have a cheap source of food because it will stop you from appreciating the good in life, and besides, what would we do with all the extra food you wouldn't eat. Also, we can't have your children surviving more often as where would we put them all? So much better for the planet that you guys just starve for now. Yeah, I know I can get the food I need with no problem and my children probably won't starve to death, but that's the luck of the draw! Someone's got to take the bullet for the greater good.
Crabtree's bludgeon: “no set of mutually inconsistent observations can exist for which some human intellect cannot conceive a coherent explanation, however complicated”
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Belial » Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:48 pm UTC

Also the fear of overpopulation in a post-scarcity world requires you not to know some things about human population.

Like the fact that birthrates drop precipitously in developed countries. Humans are not actually bunnies: given access to education and contraception, most of us would prefer not to be raising families of 20 in a city with no elbow room, and are perfectly capable of doing the mental math to get from there to "so maybe having 20 kids would be a dumb idea"
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby azule » Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:09 pm UTC

Or, OTC (One True Crow). I don't think we had a crow. ;) 8-)

Spoiler:
Indoctrinating is fun. Oh, ch*rp, I just messed that up now, didn't I? :(


Welcome back from the ban, Sciscitor, and congrats on 300.

Now time for some lurkreplies:

OTTer Nation by yappo: yay, a song I know! cool

BlitzGirl updates her squirpies: good update!

The first person SecondTalon chose was PM 2Ring, who is a member of the OTT. hehe. (Xe didn't mention that, I wish xe knew that little factoid.)

BlitzGirl wrote:Molpish TimeAfterTime panoramas, azule!
Thanks. Those are for anyone interested. ST did a beauteous job of allowing these to be officially panorama'd. I was surprised no one had done one yet.

AluisioASG wrote:
azule wrote:Did you notice the molpy?

I'm afraid I didn't. Except for the mini-dinosaur top right in the last frame.
I don't know of this mini-dinosaur... :? ...FYI, the molpy would be in the last frame as well.....-ish. Actually, it's in the last post somewhere.

balthasar_s wrote:Image
Lovely.

HES wrote:
azule wrote:Interesting to hear that a British speaker may find an Aussie accent odd. To me, an 'merican, you both sound similar (but I'm sure I could tell the accents apart).

:shock: Your sample contains anomalies. Those accents aren't even remotely alike.

Though I'm sure I would provoke a similar reaction comparing Aussie and South African accents (I can tell the difference, but they have similarities) and certain US and Canadian accents. :roll:
Hah, they're the same. ;) :P US and Canada? Oh, I don't think so, eh. :P

BlitzGirl wrote:Very dense indeed, azule! Image
I'm glad someone laughed. :)

balthasar_s wrote:How about replacing I love BANANAS with lines from "We love the thread of Time" (Boom de Yada) based on the position on the Newpage, so that every next title is a next booomdeyada line?
Oh, man/boy. I don't think you got one of those awards, but you should get a special one just for that idea. Super baobabs!
+love the implementation, mrob27. I FTFM, though.
FutureNote: and it was good.

HES wrote:At least we now know what SBN and azule were saved from...
But I love/am BANANAS. Oh, well. I'm happy to still have my title. :)

Sciscitor wrote:Others have mentioned it before but the UNGs really seem to move a lot faster than I remember from the ONGs.
I think I know why this is. Two factors. Originally we all tried to keep up at every moment, not even sure that it was only every half-hour. Secondly, there was a monster level of more posts between ONGs (I haven't checked if true). So, while you waited you tried to ketchup/stay ketchupped. And when I say waited... I mean, very little sleep. Y'all know how long a movie/meeting feels when you're falling asleep during it, etc.

Now, we get most of our sleep, we wade through many posts, but not that many, and ketchup. I remember checking other sites at the same time while trying to formulate theories. Now, I make OTTifications while it runs, but I worry/stress less about what I'm seeing. Relaxation might help with the Time dilation as well. :)

ergman wrote:I think I might record my most recent ottification (the snails one). I'm pretty sure I have a terrible singing voice but like, I keep singing it to myself anyway.
I think we're due for another mp3, that'd be great! ^_^ Don't worry about voice... like you said, melody. At least, then, I could sing it, too.
FutureNote: Chirp, you didn't release it. Stupid iPhone!

yappobiscuits wrote:We've got OTTish C**kie Clicker and we started on an OTTish Monopoly... maybe we could actually finish this one!
and mrob's 2048. I actually learned how to play on his version. Can't wait for it to be OTTified.

Earthling on Mars wrote:@azule - Aw, Zanclean Zodiac has ended. Good work; I enjoyed it.
Thank you, Earthling. I'm glad. I'll make a neverending version some day. ;)

ggh wrote:I thought, Chirp! Why is that so long?!!??
It wasn't that long. You musta skipped my really big ones.
Image

If you read this sig, post about one arbitrary thing you did today.

I celebrate up to six arbitrary things before breakfast.
Time does drag on and on and contain spoilers. Be aware of memes.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby addams » Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:11 pm UTC

Time has suddenly become serous.

It is True.
What Belial wrote is True.

We could whip up a paper for you.
Lit review.
Numbers and their sources.
Conclusion.

How many times does that paper need to be written?
Only once, by every single Serious Student.

The internet sure makes those sort of assignments easier.
Primary sources might, still, be difficult. (shrug)

Do you think someone might come up with a new conclusion?
Would you want to read it?

I might blow through a stack of papers looking at the conclusions and moving on.
If a conclusion was weird, I might read the paper.

Do students come up with weird conclusions for extra special attention?
If you come up with an unusual conclusion, have a good Lit Review.

You may be asked to improve your paper.
Don't stand out in a crowd, if you don't want to learn to write.

Blend. Blend into the crowd.
Like the Seventh Son of a Seventh Son.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby tresoldi » Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:24 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:Image Some replies to tresoldi:

tresoldi wrote:In frame 2664 we have the second Beanish sentence, ᔪᖆᓄᐧ ᔪ, ᒣᖉ ᖊᐣᖽ ᖽᘛᕋᑦᐤ

You might want to note for the OTT that you're using the Geekwagon numbering system for the frames.


The acolyte here did not know Geekwagon had a different numbering system... :oops:

BlitzGirl wrote:
tresoldi wrote:...we have a base word *ᖆᓄᐧ (“dava”), whose closest match is ᖆᓄᘈᖉᐣ (“davesafe”) in frame 2821, usually taken as the name of the Beanie city and which I proposed that might be a compound word *ᖆᓄ + *ᘈᖉᐣ (considering it is similar to ᘖᓄᘈᖉᐣ in frame 2906, another toponym)

Kind of a tangent, not sure if you've seen this; the gate of the city has a ᘖ on it:
Spoiler:
Image
tresoldi wrote:The most accepted translations are “What happened to your leg?”, “Are you injured?”, “Were you attacked?/What attacked you?” and “Could you show me/us your leg?”.

I'm inclined to think the first of these, but that's a sheer guess based on OTC context.


I had seen the ᘖ in the city name, @azule even posted a suggestion on how to manage it in the Beanish forum. I just am not completely sure, as many people think, that each or at least most glyphs have their own meaning, i.e., that they are like English morphemes with much more freedom (but I confess I am slowly changing my mind).

As for the translations, maybe we could crowdsource it and ask people what they think...

...which brings back the question: how should we go on with this discussion? I think that using the Wikia infrastructure could be a good idea, along with the Talk page, but I can keep posting here, or maybe post only in the Beanish forum. I would like to keep things how I've been doing them, posting links here and the full text of my blog when I find in appropriate, after all we are indeed a community and we seem to like all kinds of Time-derivative work (and my "research" is just that -- I am a zero when it comes to drawing, so I would like my Time after Time to be written. In Beanish, of course. :wink: )
My blog on Beanish: https://beanishlang.wordpress.com/
Beanish corpus on Github: https://github.com/tresoldi/beanish/blob/master/corpus.txt
If you want to ask me anything, feel free to send a private message or comment on my blog, I might miss it on the topics (particularly on the OTT ;))

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Bad Hair Man » Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:28 pm UTC

I'm up to page 440 out of 1868, or 23.5% of the way through. Only 1428 pages to go!

We're near the end of the fade to white, I think. Someone's just predicted that there's only 7 or 8 frames left before complete white-out, and I don't actually care enough to check to see if they're right. People are starting to get excited after the long, lengthy boringness that was the long slow fade itself. They know that one way or another something different will happen soon.

macraw83 wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:Quest progress: 425 out of 438 pages.
The Fading. NP 924.

[Walltext of awesome snipped for space]


BlitzGirl is back! And only THIRTEEN PAGES BEHIND! So excited! Means cake-time soon!

I do hope I'm not on a plane when it happens... that would be the worst.

Is it the worst because the cakes on a plane is a lie?

buffygirl wrote:
ChronosDragon wrote:
Spoiler:
StratPlayer wrote:
StratPlayer wrote:There once was a comic on xkcd;
Sand castles by a sea of semencoffee.
It started to fade,
The timewaiters all prayed,
And la Petite returned! "Holy Shit," says me!!!!


There once was a comic, so sweet
with a little girl name La Petite.
But she came and went
and all hope was spent...
The little bitch!

I see you've opted for the 1122bitch rhyme scheme. Popular amongst drunk limerickers.

LOVE YOU!

Plucked this out as a gem from the past for all you future folk to behold. And because it's almost as popular among drunk rimelickers.
HAL9000 wrote:The Passover bunny walks on water! So he be an representation of Horus!

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:42 pm UTC

Woa, a lot of post scarcety stuff. I just have to post something on topic:
Molpy molpy molpy molpy molpy molpy molpy molpy molpy molpy molpy grapevine grapevine.

I must say that, however evil it may be, I forgot the third world aspects of it a bit. That is to say that they were crowded out by the weapons problem and the fact that I like to poke holes in hypothetical questions.
For me it sort of boils down to:
A. Post scarcety has the chance to reduce suffering.
B. What will happen sooner:
1. An insane person gets his/her hands on plans for a doomsday machine.
2. A sane man designs a city sized long distance space ship.

Since I assume the designs of doomsday machines are generally kept secret I'd go with yes.
Mikeski wrote:A "What If" update is never late. Nor is it early. It is posted precisely when it should be.

patzer's signature wrote:
flicky1991 wrote:I'm being quoted too much!

he/him/his

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:56 pm UTC

Image
Ooh, a blitzreport from Bad Hair Man! Awesomeful! *winces at "drunk rimelickers"*
Very interesting discussion, everymolpy. It's been a while since the OTT's seen something like this; I like reading everyone's points!

ggh wrote: I also learned that pretty much everything tastes better if you eat it in the shower.

Baobabs, I learned something new todip! I don't think I've ever eaten anything in the shower before, but now I'm going to have to try that. For science!

tresoldi wrote:...which brings back the question: how should we go on with this discussion? I think that using the Wikia infrastructure could be a good idea, along with the Talk page, but I can keep posting here, or maybe post only in the Beanish forum. I would like to keep things how I've been doing them, posting links here and the full text of my blog when I find in appropriate, after all we are indeed a community and we seem to like all kinds of Time-derivative work (and my "research" is just that -- I am a zero when it comes to drawing, so I would like my Time after Time to be written. In Beanish, of course. :wink: )

I think the current setup is fine if you don't feel like changing it. It gives the opportunity for OTTers to comment on your work as well as forumites that molp about in the linguistics forum. And I really enjoy reading your blog posts!

karhell wrote:This one's for BlitzGirl ^^
AUTOMOME wrote:IMMA CHARGIN MAH VITSSÅGEN

:D :D :D
Knight Temporal of the One True Comic
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Spoiler:
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Belial » Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:03 pm UTC

azule wrote:Indoctrinating is fun. Oh, ch*rp, I just messed that up now, didn't I? :(


Don't worry, I already noticed.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

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Time Revisited - np376

Postby mscha » Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:10 pm UTC

SPUNGLIER...
Image

Spoiler:
Wait for it.
AUTOMOME wrote:IN SOVIET RUSSIA, MIDDLE BANGS BROTHER SCHIZOBLITZES YOU!


-- posted by oldpixbot

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WHATEVER OTTIFIES YOUR BEANIES

Postby mrob27 » Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:20 pm UTC

I Need Help


This is in the "serious" and "flame-retarding" category, so if you're a little burned out on that, okay to skip. I ask here because you folks know me best:
Spoiler:
The tail end of the Madness discussion made me think it was okay to make this "joke":
I wrote: Note to self: Next time I create a mock religion, make sure it is godless, like Buddhism.
(Which is my religion, for reals, and my branch of Buddhism does not take offense at being called "godless")

And @The Mighty Thesaurus, whose opinion I trust and respect, pointed out for me that I was being insensitive.

My question is: What do I need to do to understand that was insensitive and not post it as a "joke"? I really am a Buddhist and really do think that "godless" simply means "not believing in a supreme being", so I'm still going to shoot myself in the foot.


xkcd Forum Jargon


I'd like to add some of the xkcd forum jargon to my glossary, and would like a little help. Here are some terms to get the ball rolling:
  DearSB : Unknown, but perhaps the "SB" is the same as SB, below.
  FaiD : Free as in Destitute, a forum that you can only read if you apply to and are admitted to the "The Truly Free" usergroup. It is unmoderated, which perhaps means "without the power of editing", and the name derives from "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose".
  ICT : Individual Comic Threads, the forum containing the OTT.
  LS&R : Love, Sex, and Relationships, a subforum of General
  N&A : News and Articles, a forum
  SB : Serious Business, a forum (and possibly a future name for Sandcastle Builder)
  SF or S&F : Sound and Fury, a grouping of forums containing N&A, SB, XKCD Meetups and General.

I want corrections and additions. A bit of a clue about FaiD would be nice, I don't know if they're going to let me in. My application to FF00BF BFFs was deleted without comment.

Sciscitor wrote: Wow balthasar! You are doing great work there. I know what effort goes into such things, and it is very nice to know, that we won't run out of newpages anytime soon. :)

As I pointed out here, the link in Randall Munroe's blag article will no longer point to the end of the thread in about 13,000 years if we keep at the present rate, which is long enough for the Zanclean flood plus a rebuild of civilization to a point capable of producing a new xkcd website. 231 posts would take about twice as long ;)

tresoldi wrote: The acolyte here did not know Geekwagon had a different numbering system... :oops:

As I see it, it's not really a :oops: more of a :wink:. We have three frame-numbering systems for a reason:
Kieryn wrote: (OTT:723:24) I propose we standardize the process of going with it and remaining free from standards. If it seems that a standard is forming, within 2 newpages we must ensure at least 5 rebuttals are made, each ending with the phrase "ni ni ni ni ni chupacabra ping pong ball". At which point we all chant in unison "united we stand opposed to standards" and rub our tummies in circles while patting our head.

I use the mscha numbering system for the Replay viewer mainly because I'm lazy: it is the simplest to convert back and forth to UNIX time. But is you go to the mscha page for, say, frame M2659, there are handy links to GeekWagon and Aubron telling you that it's frame G2664 or A2667. Then if you really wanted G2659 you'd step back 5 frames.

mrob27 Image

(Edit: update glossary link)
Last edited by mrob27 on Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:44 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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I ᴍᴀᴅᴇ sᴏɍᴛᴡᴀʀᴇ ᴛʜᴀᴛ Rᴀɴᴅᴀʟʟ ɍᴏᴜɴᴅ ᴜsᴇɍᴜʟ ɪɴ ᴛʜɪs хᴋᴄᴅ

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby balthasar_s » Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:34 pm UTC

Don't be surprised if the mirror disappears this week for a while. They have a new areeement with their ISP at he otherplace where the server is located. They will have to reconfigure and I'm almost sure they will do something wrong. (because that's what usually happens). And I just "love" remotely debugging things over phone calls. (I'm already mentally preparing for this) They said they received a new router for this. Unless the new internet is something else than ADSL (which I doubt) they don't have to replace it. But if they have to, all these redirections and things, how will they do it? Lot's of remote phone-debugging for me. And, of course, If they told me a few hours earlier I would already be there. Now I'll have to wait until next Thursday. So, if the mirror goes away, just wait for it, I already know about it. I only don't know when this will happen.
ETA, @mrob27:
Spoiler:
Maybe the problem was Buddhism and "mock religion" in the same sentence?
Last edited by balthasar_s on Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:49 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ergman » Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:36 pm UTC

Haha! That was probably the biggest offtopicness combo yet! Very interesting read. And I think humans will always create problems for themselves if they have none, so there's no worry of being perpetually bored.

Anyway, hi Belial, and the other colored named folk who've been showing up. Anyone want a hat? Unless it would tarnish your reputations too much. :P
I made my avatar, Buffygirl hatted it, Yappo smileyed it and ggh taroted it!
I've changed, witnessing this thing so beautiful

Good luck on blitzing, katakissa, username5243, musthavebeenmykarma, iskinner, thunk, GnomeAnne, and quantized ! Keep the signposts coming, we love em in the now!

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Re: WHATEVER OTTIFIES YOUR BEANIES

Postby BlitzGirl » Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:48 pm UTC

Mm, not exactly sure I can help you on that first one, mrob. Let me take a quick stab at it:
Spoiler:
I could tell it was a well-meaning joke. Please don't feel too bad. It's difficult for me to read The Mighty Thesaurus (ironic) but it's possible that she was also responding with her own deadpan-sarcastic type of humor. She seems to do that a lot in FaiD. Maybe what she was referring to is the feelings of those with religions that do have gods, so a joke saying, "heh, godlessness is easier" might be interpreted as derogatory to those religions, or, alternatively, minimizing all religions ("I'll simply choose from the Grab Bag o' Religion next time and hope I get a better one"). These are only my guesses, of course - I don't know if there's any truth to them.
mrob27 wrote:I use the mscha numbering system for the Replay viewer only because I'm lazy: it is the simplest to convert back and forth to UNIX time. But is you go to the mscha page for, say, frame M2659, there are handy links to GeekWagon and Aubron telling you that it's frame G2664 or A2667. Then if you really wanted G2659 you'd step back 5 frames.

Also, you can type "g2659" or "gw2659" into mscha's viewer and it will deliver you to the corresponding frame. (Works with aubronwood (a, aw) and the individual newpix urls as well.)
Last edited by BlitzGirl on Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:49 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WHATEVER OTTIFIES YOUR BEANIES

Postby Sciscitor » Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:49 pm UTC

mrob27 wrote:This is in the "serious" and "flame-retarding" category, so if you're a little burned out on that, okay to skip. I ask here because you folks know me best:
Spoiler:
The tail end of the Madness discussion made me think it was okay to make this "joke":
I wrote: Note to self: Next time I create a mock religion, make sure it is godless, like Buddhism.
(Which is my religion, for reals, and my branch of Buddhism does not take offense at being called "godless")

And @The Mighty Thesaurus, whose opinion I trust and respect, pointed out for me that I was being insensitive.

My question is: What do I need to do to understand that was insensitive and not post it as a "joke"? I really am a Buddhist and really do think that "godless" simply means "not believing in a supreme being", so I'm still going to shoot myself in the foot.

My answer to that:
Spoiler:
I puzzled over it for some time too. I had the vague feeling that it was some kind of pissed off reaction but could not quite put my finger on it. Specifically I could not figure out what she was referring too. I did not see anything offensive in your post. But hey, I'm an agnostic, so almost nothing religion related could possibly offend me. After some puzzling about the enigmatic meaning I gave up and put it down to me not getting something or her misreading something. I'd PM her and ask about what she meant.
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To all Blitzers (Maugrim, micdi, Purplepants77 et al): Have fun and enjoy your journey!
Holmes, Sherlock wrote:"It's elementary, my dear Watson!"1
1 Holmes actually never said this.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:10 pm UTC

Image RECURSUNG BEGINS:
Image
Knight Temporal of the One True Comic
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Spoiler:
Image
Image
Image<Profile
~.Image~.FAQ->Image

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Time After Time: t1i-0833

Postby mscha » Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:30 pm UTC

THONGUMBOBS...
Image
Spoiler:
Wait for it.
-- posted by newpixbot


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