1190: "Time"

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**D THE BUTTER... WITH YOUR TREBUCHAT

Postby Eternal Density » Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:41 pm UTC

No Phantasia land? Aww, oh well. There's got to be plenty of other molpish stuff to do in a country I've never been to. Well I've really only been in 3 countries ever :P

The film screening I was helping out at last nip went pretty well. We were up pretty late though and then I didn't sleep in. So I probably got a little less than 6 nopix of sleep. I could have got less than 5 if I'd woken up at 5 to watch the very start of Desert Bus, but I missed the first hour and a bit.
Oh, and Desert Bus for Hope is on, for the next who knows how many days. It's something I only learned about in recent mips, but it's pretty molpish. It's a fundraising drive for charity (Childs Play, a charity for children's hospitals) where a bunch of folks play the most terrible boring hotdog ever (Desert Bus) in return for donations (livestreamed, of course). The first nopix is 1 dollar and each successive nopix costs 7% more. This is their 8th year and they've raised around 1.8 million in total. There's also auctions of loot and people can pose challenges in return for donations. It's all pretty treeish and molpish. And of course they have their own memes and everything, like we do.
I wonder if we could do a waiting fundraiser or something?

ETA much later.
Oh. Pope. Whoops.
OTTify Desert Bus maybe?
Last edited by Eternal Density on Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:53 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Soup » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:07 am UTC

<Blindposting, because OH EM ARRR> RELATED to taixo's sword, I couldn't quickly find a screengrab from the show, and I didn't know this was a thing of the othernets: From a probably months old Adventure Time I just cleared off the DVR, I present Jungle Otter Warriors story board. (Scroll halfway down, p. 160.) </Blindposting, because OH EM ARRR>
Waiting for it...

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Re: SUDDENLY, CUPCAKES. THOUSANDS OF THEM!

Postby SBN » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:37 am UTC

lmjb1964 wrote:In other news, I'm going to Portland tonight to hang out with friends. Yay!

Be safe, there is weather there.
astrotter wrote:It is not particularly clear to me at this time that we are not overanalyzing this...

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Postby AluisioASG » Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:03 am UTC

tresoldi wrote:Well, I was born in Italy, but I suppose I am now more a Brazilian than an Italian.

And I was going for place-of-residence anyway.

tresoldi wrote:Still, if we are close we can meet in Santa Catarina (should be half-way, right?) and held our own meeting! :D

Florianópolis, perhaps? (Through I'm noticing it's not actually halfway, bus trip-wise.)
Anothet way is, I may need to stop off at POA for an afternoon sometime next year. I could try to make it happen on the 16 or 17.

tresoldi wrote:But really, how can Porto Alegre-São Paulo be so expansive?

<insert witty comment about expansiveness>
It seems to be quite cheap actually (R$360 round-trip). But by planning the whole POA-GRU-AMS-DUS trip at once, you lose the right to choose cheaper companies. (I learned that while planning for the situation in the previous paragraph.)

tresoldi wrote:Not to mention that a beach in Brazil on 02/15 should be a good place to hang out, geek as we might be.

Uh… well, I've never been to a catarinense beach, so maybe?

Neil_Boekend wrote:It is the most evil code I had seen in years. A long time ago there were some things possible on websites that should never have been. And I am not talking about hacking. You see, once all the browsers accepted the <blink> tag. It made text blink, which also means that it's really hard to read. Whole paragraphs were blinking. Since this was extremely irritating it was removed from the internet. As far as I know all modern browses just ignore it.

Y'know, except for the @keyframes rule, you can make stuff like that in the OTTermap.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby lmjb1964 » Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:37 am UTC

Maybe try flying into another airport? Frankfurt was much cheaper for me.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:41 am UTC

Welcome to the thread, sdnelso2! Do drop by anytime; we love seeing new faces here ("faces"="usernames" in this instance).
And we don't understand it all, either. That's probably why we muse over it so often.

htom wrote:Hmm, a bit more than 2000 pages to ketchup. A great advantage is that we're not creating 20 pages a day. Another is that there are not New NewPics to ponder. I'm going to think about that before committing to it. How'd you do it, BlitzGirl?

Easy, I just blitzed the thread when it was one tenth of its current size. :wink:
It's quite the journey, that's for sure! And don't be too strict on yourself, should you choose to attempt it. I myself have several gaps where I skimmed or skipped to the Present for various and sundry reasons. It's much better when blitzing is an adventure, not a chore!

manvandmaan wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote: Please do come to the conference if you can, manvandmaan. The more the molpier!
Ooh, and I'd love a croissant. :D It's awesomeful to have you back, Croissant Man!

Well, since you ask so friendly, I will! It's awesomeful to be back! *throws some croissants-in-a-tin*

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Postby Eternal Density » Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:55 am UTC

manvandmaan, I waited for the chance and I took it when it presented itself!
Yes, I ate a croissant :D
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby azule » Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:29 am UTC

Three more NP until Fluff equilibrium. So, let's keep it fluffy, everyone.

Nice wordk, Tresoldi. Keep it up!

Thanks for the link, manvandmaan. So, should we address you with the correct spelling of "manvandemaan"?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ucim » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:32 am UTC

lmjb1964 wrote:Speaking of evil, the gremlins in my computer have decided suddenly to remove my ability to quote again. I had been quoting happily away earlier. Epsilon.
Are those gremlins actually in your computer, or are they loose on the internet? (can you quote from a different machine?)

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bftf-0460

Postby lmjb1964 » Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:00 am UTC

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ergman » Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:10 am UTC

Nice work Tresoldi! (I probably spelt that wrong. It's 2 am).

I'm up at two am for a few reasons but one of them is related, because I've been WAITING FOR IT.

Today's it has been project m 3.5, an update to the largest console mod ever made. Anyway,
My point is it's release has been delayed and dragged out across today, and the relevant subreddit is going mad with impatience. It's fun joking around in there with them, and I feel closer with that community because of it. Maybe this collaborative anticipation has something to do with thread sustainability. I think our creed might actually have a lot of value.
Anyway, off to refresh the page again. Molpy away!

Edit: in retrospect, this ain't all that astute.
Whatever y'all know what I mean
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SBN » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:54 am UTC

ergman wrote: Maybe this collaborative anticipation has something to do with thread sustainability. I think our creed might actually have a lot of value.

There's something to that. Think about Click and Drag. It was a cool thing, but once there was a "solution" there was no need to explore together. Landing, on the other hand, did have a community feel to it because no one could make it happen faster. Likewise, in the wolpy group I belong to, some of the events that have increased community-ness, have been waiting events. (Searches for lost wolpies, puppy watches, countdowns to wolpy-shows.) These are short-term things related to the main purpose of the group, not the main purpose itself, so while they build community, the effect isn't as strong.

Web-footed raptor alignment report: Flock one fully aligned and launched. Flock two nearly aligned. Launch date tomorrow. Flock three, sort of gathered in a clump, launch date Monday. Remaining flocks in various stages, with launch dates approaching rapidly. Probably going to have to let other folks do the alignment on a lot of them, since after tomorrow I won't be in the same state as some of them. (But there are several flocks in the new state awaiting alignment.)
astrotter wrote:It is not particularly clear to me at this time that we are not overanalyzing this...

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Sustainabilizer » Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:12 pm UTC

Welcome to the Present, long-missed basementees!
Welcome to the OTT, Revealers the Recent!

I just updated the Wiki page about the conference.

I turned the list of participants into a table and splitted it into two lists of physical and remote participants, plus a separate list of speeches.

So far we have
  • 15.57002 physical participants,
  • 2.0 remote participants, and
  • 9.9 speeches.
Please check whether I got you right and let me know, so I can fix the mustard. (Or just edit it yourself and let me know. It's a Wiki.)

I'm looking forward to the conference. :)
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bftf-0461

Postby lmjb1964 » Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:00 pm UTC

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby balthasar_s » Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:34 pm UTC

I've been thinking about how to make something conference-speech-y out of the thoughts I shared here. I still don't know but now I have some more. Working on the mirror had led me to some thoughts about the platform and the data. I made some quick drawings to illustrate it.

What makes a community? What makes a community from a technical point of view? I'd say that a community is made of a group of people, the interactions between them, and their view and feel of being a community.
Image
In case of an ONLINE community there is another important element - the platform. The platform is the medium for all these interactions.
Image
Is that much? The above picture shows how it looks like. But not how it feels like. It feels more like this:
Image
Since it's an online community all the interactions are online. So the only (unless there is some redundancy) way of reaching the community, the other people is through the platform. The community is seen inside the platform. That's why it feels so endish if there are problems with the platform.
Image
If the platform is gone it's almost as if the whole community was gone. And if the platform is permanently gone it can even mean an end of a community.

More about this. What makes a community what it is, is how its members perceive it.
Image
Of course everyone acn have a little (or completely) different view of the community but as long as these views shape the community without conflicts it's not a problems. But what shapes one person's view of the community? It's who xe is, it's who the other members are and what's in the interactions. But how does one know who others are? From seeing their interactions in the community. And how does one see those? From reading the platform.
Image
It's all there! In the platform. In the data. All what made the community what it si is somehow encoded in the data! That's really crazy if you think about it (If you don't think about it it's still crazy but you don't think about it then). If I have a complete copy of the OTT I also have all that made the OTT. If only I could decode that.
What we see in the platform shapes our view of the community. And our view of the community shapes our interactions with it.
Image
And these change the data. And changing the data changes other people's view of the community.
Image
Which affects their interactions with the community. Which changes the data again. Which changes our view of the community, and so on...
Image
That's a feedback loop. That's how an online community goes on.
To make the view more complete there is a time perspective on it.
Image
What makes our current view on the community is the data, the prevoius view and also the data from the past. In this OTT it's especially important with all the blitzening and upketching. If we couldn't access our past we'd no longer be the same OTT.
If data is lost if the platform is broken the loop becomes broken too. And the community
Image

A sustainable community should have a sustainable platform.
What is a sustainable platform? I can't give a definition but if I tried to find out if a one is sustainable I'd ask:
  • Does ist work correctly, without problems, mustards?
  • Does it allow to create and access messages, posts, or whatever else?
  • Does it allow to easily access the past? (some, like Facebook fail this)
  • Does it protect its data?
  • Do we know what the software really does? (if it's not free we don't)
  • Does it belong to the community or someone else?
  • Is it likely to be removed for some reason?

The points about how it works. It's rather obvoius why it's important. More about ownership. at some point in time a community appears. It's not a single event. It's a process. A process which is happening on an already existing platform. Whether its owner is part of it is a different story. One does not create a platform for the purpose of creating a community. One does not artificially create communities. A platform is created for some other reasons and sometimes commutities form on it. sometimes not.
The community needs to be able to keep its data safe. If the community doesn't own its platform it doesn't own its data. (unless they do something about it). If the community doesn't own its platform it can't be sure that the platform will continue to exist.
What to do? Moving to a different platform might not be a good idea. The platform can be part of what the community really is. And migrating would change that. A community can be formed on a lot of different platforms. Forums, chats, wikis, comment sections, mailing lists, ... Everywhere where information exchange is possible. Some of them may be not sustainable by their design. This is problematic. Staying is unsustainable (because of the platform's nature) and migrating is unsustainable (because of the community's nature). Luckily, our situation is not that bad.
How to live on a platform that may be not as sutainable as we want and still try to be sustainable enough?
Make redundant copies of the data. Regularly. But not everything at once. We don't want to overload any servers. The best solution is a bot that goes slowly through all data and saves it. But also save quickly new data.
Now if our platform/data is gone and if we have to create a new one we can recreate it and continue there.
So why not do it now? Why don't we create na new phpBB with a new OTT, move all our data there, start posting there and close this thread?
Because there are reasons for us to want to be here. We're still welcome here. The location of the thread is what brought us here ( because some already were on xkcd fora, because some knew where to look for Time-related discussion, etc.). There are a lot of less frequent visitors. There are blitzers. They may not be here when the change happens. We don't want to lose them. We can leave a message in the first and last post. And in signatures. But for some registering somewhere else might be a barrier high enough. Some will assume that when they no longer see the thread on the first page it means that the thread is dead. And being here is part of what we are. So we want to stay here as long a possible. But we should still have some redundancy prepared.
Sometimes, mustard happens. Mustard can happen everywhere. Why not use the already created copies to sustainabilize our experience here? Let's use make it viewable so that mustard doesn't cut us from the community. We have it - it is in the mirror. It's very compatible with the original OTT - you don't see any difference when reading trom the mirror and from the OTT. That's good. But it's one-way. Why not make it possible to continue the interactions in mustardtimes and then bring it back to the original platform? We have it too - it's on the Mustardtime Otherthread. It tries to be compatible with the OTT but still has some limitations. But that may change in the future.
So can the mirror be used as an OTT replacement when an eternal mustard comes? No. Not yet. Its current internal structure is not well designed for long-term replacement. But the mirror will evolve. To the point where you can just switch to the mirror and continue OTTing without noticing too many changes. That's my goal for somewhere in the future.
But even then it wouldn't be the most sustainable solution. Because it still would be ONE mirror. What if something happens to my server? what if something happens to me? It's good to have more.

But that's just us. how about other communities? The mirror is a solution for a phpBB thread. That's one of many different platforms. But maybe we (maybe the sustainable conference) can inspire others to do such things. That would be neat. Sush a redundancy software (including, but not limited to my mirror) should be free. To be reuseble. To be understandable. To make it possible to adjust it to a community's needs). But that's not all. There must be someone in the community with <computery-stuff> skills. There must be someone who can run a server. It's not difficult these days but you still need one, I think the best choice is a SBC or an old laptop. I bought the botcastle from my own money. And they must feel the need of doing this. I don't know how to cause that.

tl;dr:
data is important
redundancy is molpish
the future will be sustainable

Redundant
Spoiler:
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Wow, this post has become much longer than expected. And also I was writing it longer than expaected, I've become hungry when writing it.
Also the drawins could have been smaller.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Sustainabilizer » Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:55 pm UTC

balthasar_s wrote:I've been thinking about how to make something conference-speech-y out of the thoughts I shared here.
[…]
tl;dr:
data is important
redundancy is molpish
the future will be sustainable

*stares at the speaker*
Wow.
*knocks on the desk* Image

Thanks for this speech.

Questions, anyone?

Yes, that guy with the white hat with the question marks on in, please?
Sustainabilizer wrote:First, a remark: I already was convinced that the ЯOЯЯIM TTO is of vital importance. This speech reminded me that I want to advertise it whereever possible, so I'm adding a link to it to my sig now

Now my question: Did you notice the JavaScript my thoughts about how to get the data back from the server into phpBB? Of course this would work only for cooperative hosts, but how high would you estimate the work to implement this extension to the ЯOЯЯIM TTO?

More questions?
Yes, the same guy again?
Sustainabilizer wrote:This is a question to all experts of <computery stuff>, not just to the speaker. One problem with re-posting a mirror post on the OTT is that the bot needs the password of the poster. I'm thinking about creating a separate account for this purpose, but that's not a solution, but just a workaround. Are there any ideas how to make re-posting possible without the need to disclose the password to the bot?

Further questions?

balthasar_s wrote:I've become hungry when writing it.

Have a nice meal. Image

balthasar_s wrote:Also the drawins could have been smaller.

I don't think so. They need a minimum size, so they are still well visible from the seats in the last row.

Let's thank the speaker again.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby balthasar_s » Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:11 pm UTC

I didn't think of this as the speech. That's one of the steps towards it. I had to share my thoughts. And now I can also re-read them later.

To answer the first question I'd have to write another seaish post to explain my vision of cooperative mirrors. Expect the answer a little later. Maybe tomorrow? I did read that post.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Sustainabilizer » Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:13 pm UTC

balthasar_s wrote:To answer the first question I'd have to write another seaish post to explain my vision of cooperative mirrors. Expect the answer a little later. Maybe tomorrow?

Take your Time. There are still some months until February. I can wait for it.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby taixzo » Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:15 pm UTC

Sustainabilizer wrote:Welcome to the Present, long-missed basementees!
Welcome to the OTT, Revealers the Recent!

I just updated the Wiki page about the conference.

I turned the list of participants into a table and splitted it into two lists of physical and remote participants, plus a separate list of speeches.

So far we have
  • 15.57002 physical participants,
  • 2.0 remote participants, and
  • 9.9 speeches.
Please check whether I got you right and let me know, so I can fix the mustard. (Or just edit it yourself and let me know. It's a Wiki.)

I'm looking forward to the conference. :)
Waiting for it,
Sustainabilizer


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Postby AluisioASG » Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:37 pm UTC

And me to 0.4 local, 0.7 remote. I wonder if y'll'll still be around by 5pm?
Oh, and speech: 310% 311% chance of an experiment on content migration from visible content.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:40 pm UTC

Yaay Taixzo!

Including the sword?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Sciscitor » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:09 pm UTC

First of all let me welcome back all our basementees! It is so good to see you returning home to the OTT even if you are not able to stay for some longer time. I really enjoyed seeing our First Pope Helper, our slightly homicidal supercomputers again, Pfhorrest (which avatar I am still not able to figure out), manvandmaan (bringer of croissants), nerdsniped (who is sniped by the Outside), Febrion, Marsh'n and Earthling on Mars, tman2nd of the redundakittyhat, soup, Valarya Cardinal of Cupcakes, High Inquisitor Dracomax, bluecrab, Tatiana and I am sure I've forgotten a lot of others. Seeing all those familiar hats again brought up a great bout of nostalgia.

Second: Welcome also to all Revealers The Recent!

Third, I've followed the "Time 2/OTT 2"-discussion. I refrained from adding to it, as it is a subject that has been discussed over and over and not everymolpy is enjoying it. Just this as a reply to the post that started it all: That there is a world outside the broomcabinet does not mean that there isn't a world inside it as well.

Fourth, I've read the baltha_speech and want to share another thougt about platforms and such. It is true that the platform is vitally important and I think that was why there was so much effort to create contingency plans to preserve at least the data of the OTT. It prompted me to create The Database, mrob his index, Kieryn his dedication site and last but not least balthasar the ЯOЯЯIM TTO. There was a distinct fear of the OTT being closed down at the e** of Time which echoed and resonated very strongly during this years modmadness. I believe that this perceived threat made OTTers stick together though this evidently would not be a sustainable way to create such a community. I think of it rather as a byproduct.

There is also a core of people who have formed the OTT which can easily be seen when looking at the Constellations of Time. It was Helper and opipoble at first, with Karmann and others and as their influence ebbed, others stepped forward like Blitzgirl (since then the heart and soul of the OTT), yappobiscuits, Eternal Density, mrob, balthasar and so forth. There is one thing all those OTTers have in common: They are all immensely creative and interesting people who are a pleasure to interact with or only listen to. There are all sorts of them adding to the community by providing scientific insight, emotional support, artistic contributions, and last but not least bring generosity and help to all in need.

Fifth concerns the conference. I would like to come but my current situation simply does not allow for me to make any decision before like mid january. If it is possible for me to attend, I still will be able to make arrangements then. As it is now, do not count me higher than 0.1. Other than that I would be glad to be of any assistance with the data I've gathered. If I will not be able to attend, I am thinking about pledging a small grant to an OTTer who would like to attend but otherwise can not due to financial restrictions.

Sixth let me say that is is so nice to have lots of ketchup each morning to go with tea and breakfast. Molpy on!

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby balthasar_s » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:31 pm UTC

Sciscitor wrote:and last but not least balthasar the ЯOЯЯIM TTO. There was a distinct fear of the OTT being closed down at the e** of Time which echoed and resonated very strongly during this years modmadness.
I wasn't even an OTTer at that time so I couldn't feel the original fear. But I still felt the need to create the mirror.

I didn't notice when I became an OTTer. I still wasn't thinking of myself as an OTTer when everyone else was. After the "What have you done to me, Time?" film Valarya called me an OTTer. I was surprised.

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also 3.5 came out woohoo

Postby ergman » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:44 pm UTC

@balthamans: WOW! that is a pretty great speech, with an excellent visual guide. I can't wait to see it again at a conference! Not that I'm going, but I hope it would at least be recorded in some capacity.

I also am sure I'll have some capacity of online participation, depending on what that entails. So should everyone here really, if all it means is being live in a chatroom or something during the conference.

I also have a little something planned, but it's far from sciencey so I'll probably just post it in the thread during the time of conferencery. It has to do with a piece of fiction I began long before the discussion of sustainability had begun...

edit to add:
AluisioASG wrote:Oh, and speech: 310% 311% chance of an experiment on content migration from visible content.
oooooo!
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Time Randomly Revisited - np2580

Postby mscha » Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:00 pm UTC

HERONGTON...
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Wait for it.
OTT Time Travel

AUTOMOME wrote:MY MMONS SUSTAINABILIZETH OVER

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Re: 5

Postby tresoldi » Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:19 pm UTC

AluisioASG wrote:
tresoldi wrote:Well, I was born in Italy, but I suppose I am now more a Brazilian than an Italian.

And I was going for place-of-residence anyway.


Settled. :) By the way, I have seen in your OTT map that there are other Brazilians, and even some Argentinians I if recall correctly.

AluisioASG wrote:
tresoldi wrote:Still, if we are close we can meet in Santa Catarina (should be half-way, right?) and held our own meeting! :D

Florianópolis, perhaps? (Through I'm noticing it's not actually halfway, bus trip-wise.)
Anothet way is, I may need to stop off at POA for an afternoon sometime next year. I could try to make it happen on the 16 or 17.


That is perfect! I'll probably be here for the entire summer, and I work downtown (at the university). Let's try to make it happen :)

AluisioASG wrote:
tresoldi wrote:But really, how can Porto Alegre-São Paulo be so expansive?

<insert witty comment about expansiveness>
It seems to be quite cheap actually (R$360 round-trip). But by planning the whole POA-GRU-AMS-DUS trip at once, you lose the right to choose cheaper companies. (I learned that while planning for the situation in the previous paragraph.)


I saw that, but I suppose your price does not include the airport fares (which, for GRU, are quite high)... It seems that the cheaper way would be a direct Porto Alegre-Lisbon flight, from where I'd need to study the cheaper way to get to Germany (Ryanair? or at least easyJet?).

AluisioASG wrote:
tresoldi wrote:Not to mention that a beach in Brazil on 02/15 should be a good place to hang out, geek as we might be.

Uh… well, I've never been to a catarinense beach, so maybe?


As long as the sea doesn't rise ;)
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Re: The ketchup sea.

Postby tresoldi » Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:24 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:
tresoldi wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:If I recall correctly, tresoldi has a potential phonetic system that can be applied to Beanish symbols, making them pronounceable.

It was a suggestion on how to pronounce it, thinking about a possible spoken debate on Beanish... which might just happen! But, alas, is a creative work: there is not a single evidence that my suggestions are valid. At least, it should be easy to pronounce for most people, and certainly more fluent that "the 3-like glyph".

Yeah. So, for example, if the voice-over project ever decides to tackle Beanish, we do have a way to say the words. Perhaps not the "correct" way, but it isn't really possible to us to figure out the "correct" way to pronounce Beanish at the moment.


Well, in that case I could try to make it more "pronounceable". The model I proposed was trying to make Beanish sound as close to English as possible in terms of consonants and their frequency (the vowel distribution is much more like Spanish), but it is not the easier one to pronounce. As long as we are just making guesses, we could try to come up with something either easier to pronounce (at least for speakers of European languages, like making it closer to Esperanto) or something more SF-like (Klingon, Dothraki... however, if we have to take a model from literature, I would prefer to copy form the beautiful sounds of Tolkien's languages)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:27 pm UTC

Sciscitor wrote:ETA: neil_boekend, the abomination in your sig haunts me!

Yeah it is evil. Don't worry, I'll change it soon.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:23 pm UTC

balthasar_s wrote:I've been thinking about how to make something conference-speech-y out of the thoughts I shared here. I still don't know but now I have some more. Working on the mirror had led me to some thoughts about the platform and the data. I made some quick drawings to illustrate it.

Very steakish and SCIENCEy, datasar_s! Baobabs, that post is practically a conference speech all by itself! :D

taixzo wrote:Change me to 1.0. :D

Yay!

tresoldi wrote:
Spoiler:
BlitzGirl wrote:
tresoldi wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:If I recall correctly, tresoldi has a potential phonetic system that can be applied to Beanish symbols, making them pronounceable.

It was a suggestion on how to pronounce it, thinking about a possible spoken debate on Beanish... which might just happen! But, alas, is a creative work: there is not a single evidence that my suggestions are valid. At least, it should be easy to pronounce for most people, and certainly more fluent that "the 3-like glyph".

Yeah. So, for example, if the voice-over project ever decides to tackle Beanish, we do have a way to say the words. Perhaps not the "correct" way, but it isn't really possible to us to figure out the "correct" way to pronounce Beanish at the moment.
Well, in that case I could try to make it more "pronounceable". The model I proposed was trying to make Beanish sound as close to English as possible in terms of consonants and their frequency (the vowel distribution is much more like Spanish), but it is not the easier one to pronounce. As long as we are just making guesses, we could try to come up with something either easier to pronounce (at least for speakers of European languages, like making it closer to Esperanto) or something more SF-like (Klingon, Dothraki... however, if we have to take a model from literature, I would prefer to copy form the beautiful sounds of Tolkien's languages)

What a neat idea. Image Does anymolp still affiliated with the OTVO project have any preferences?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby balthasar_s » Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:29 pm UTC

Neil_Boekend wrote:Yeah it is evil. Don't worry, I'll change it soon.

Yeah, soon it will disappear from your sig. And some time later it will appear again. And more later disappear again. and so on. In horror we realise that it really does what it says. It blinks.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby htom » Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:18 pm UTC

@balthasar_s --

Definitely the foundation of a presentation.

People also bring their own history of participation in other threads. This may shape their reactions to things that happen in the thread, e.g., someone who was a moderator in a forum where strong moderation (deletion, banning) was used will have impulses to use such behavior. someone whose primary contribution was to take bits of others' posts and present a new thing from those; a total newbie who has no clue; a troll with negative clue.

One stable for a long time community I am involved in was almost totally current and former military, and their families. Complaints about newbie mistakes were made in military language; jokes were frequently incomprehensible to those who were not .mil, kinds of things. With the death of the founder, the community has moved to a group on FaceBook. This doesn't work nearly as well, and it's slowly dissolving (FB used to have threaded discussions and that disappearance ... shouldn't have done that, FB.)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:29 pm UTC

I was recently in another community that made the decision to switch IRC channels. You wouldn't think that would make a seaish difference, but it did. Far fewer new people found the channel, some older members didn't want to switch at all, and the old admins favored different channels post-switch. The community is now maybe a fifth of the size it once was. It likely would have dwindled eventually, but it seems the change in venue accelerated the process.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby AarexTiaokhiao » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:44 pm UTC

WAITONG

Image
I QUIT

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Re: **D THE BUTTER... WITH YOUR TREBUCHAT

Postby Eternal Density » Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:10 am UTC

Eternal Density wrote:OTTify Desert Bus maybe?

Desert Bus OTTified Desert Bus! Well, indirectly.
So I wanted to see the change of drivers (which happened at 5AM local time) so I set my alarm for a 1/6th nopix before that but molpied up several times during the nip and ended up starting watching the stream at a quarter nopix before the ONG and turned off my alarm.
Anyhow, after a bit of watching they reminded viewers that they had a guest call-in scheduled (for 6AM here): the one and only Phil Plait! He who wrote this about the OTC http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronom ... comic.html which I'm sure many of you remember from way back.
So I watched all of that, which went for about an hour. He talked a bit about Rosetta/Philae, auctioned off a bunch of stuff including a duckraptor shaped spacerock, and said that we ought to go to the skycircle again before the red planet of chocolate bars. It was pretty treeish.

Now I need to go and properly read the baltha_speech_thoughts
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby tresoldi » Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:21 am UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:
tresoldi wrote:Well, in that case I could try to make it more "pronounceable". The model I proposed was trying to make Beanish sound as close to English as possible in terms of consonants and their frequency (the vowel distribution is much more like Spanish), but it is not the easier one to pronounce. As long as we are just making guesses, we could try to come up with something either easier to pronounce (at least for speakers of European languages, like making it closer to Esperanto) or something more SF-like (Klingon, Dothraki... however, if we have to take a model from literature, I would prefer to copy form the beautiful sounds of Tolkien's languages)


What a neat idea. Image Does anymolp still affiliated with the OTVO project have any preferences?


A language by Tolkien (I suppose everyone would settle for Quenya) would be lovely! In fact, even when the comic was still running, I kept thinking of the influences from Lord of The Rings. When the first Beanish sentences showed up, I was in fact very confident that they were written in a strange, degenerated Tengwar! :P I always wanted an excuse to play with Tolkien's languages in Python, now I found one: it is just a matter of finding the mapping between Beanish glyphs and phonemes that gives us something as melodious as the Namárië. :D

BlitzGirl wrote:I was recently in another community that made the decision to switch IRC channels. You wouldn't think that would make a seaish difference, but it did. Far fewer new people found the channel, some older members didn't want to switch at all, and the old admins favored different channels post-switch. The community is now maybe a fifth of the size it once was. It likely would have dwindled eventually, but it seems the change in venue accelerated the process.


Thinking about sustainable on-line communities, I believe this is a perfect case to study. I mean, one of the great advantages of the OTT is that its entire development can be studied and followed, even if blitzing through its entirety would now probably take weeks. The fact that there is a glossary in the wiki is also very good, something that one cannot easily duplicate with an IRC channel, even if you have access to all the logs.
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Re: **D THE BUTTER... WITH YOUR TREBUCHAT

Postby HAL9000 » Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:26 am UTC

Eternal Density wrote:
Eternal Density wrote:OTTify Desert Bus maybe?

Yes.

Also, what do your post's titles refer to? The "**D" looks like a partially censored word, and it really bothers me because I can't tell what it is.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:37 am UTC

T** **d... we do not speak its name.
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A RIDONDAKITI IS WOWTERFALLISH. A BEESNAKE? NOT SO MUCH.

Postby Eternal Density » Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:10 am UTC

HAL9000 wrote:
Eternal Density wrote:
Eternal Density wrote:OTTify Desert Bus maybe?

Yes.

Also, what do your post's titles refer to? The "**D" looks like a partially censored word, and it really bothers me because I can't tell what it is.
BlitzGirl has explained, so I'll just add that such titles are automatically inserted by http://mrob.com/time/scripts-beta/automomeify.user.js which gets them from http://mrob.com/time/automome/

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a Hugo to demustard.
ETA
@baltha_somethingthatisnotquiteaspeechyet:
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Reminds me of the Epsilon Attractor:
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby micdi » Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:23 am UTC

tresoldi wrote:A language by Tolkien (I suppose everyone would settle for Quenya) would be lovely!

I would prefer Sindarin actually, but yeah, Quenya is nice, too.
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Rosetta's Unglish

Postby BlitzGirl » Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:29 am UTC

tresoldi wrote:New post on Beanish: what if Rosetta's Unglish errors can teach us something about our favorite language?
http://beanishlang.wordpress.com/2014/11/14/rosettas-errors/
By the way, did someone collect all the hypothesis on what is written in Rosetta's blurred Unglish? I used the transcriptions found in the wiki and my poor eye, but hopefully someone is better at deciphering it than me!

Another steakish post! I don't know if we've collected all of the hypotheses anywhere - the wiki transcriptions are mostly "best guess" I'm afraid. I do have a couple of remarks on your specific frame comments:

In frame 2870, I cannot read the faint “to-(something)” at the beginning.

I believe it may be "TO THE/THIS FORTRESS" but that's not much better than a guess. The pale words are difficult to ENHANCE.
Spoiler:
Image
Frame 2894 is probably a good clue in terms of the final verb used by Rosetta. We should probably ask a good Scrabble player what he/she thinks of it (I get .EL…NA)

SinusPi suggested "PRELIMINARY" for that word. I actually think "ILLUMINATE" could be a verb that would fit, if you read it as _LL__INA__. The dark text might be "I MUST [verb]."
Spoiler:
Image
In frame 2897, a Beanish synonym for “hill” seem to be “rock”. Our Scrabble expert has a new challange, a synonym for “closed” in terms of “…RBIDE”(?).

Gedeon thought that word might be "FORBIDDEN" when the frame first appeared.
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