1190: "Time"

This forum is for the individual discussion thread that goes with each new comic.

Moderators: Moderators General, Prelates, Magistrates

SinusPi
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:16 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SinusPi » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:18 pm UTC

I might have a little cautious revelation.

Image

Note the AM2. It was used in G2806 and exclaimed by Beanette in G2842. Could we have Beanie1's name here?

(edit) Oh. Pope! Decree: revelate. Something.

User avatar
Whizbang
The Best Reporter
Posts: 2238
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:50 pm UTC
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Whizbang » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:19 pm UTC

For decree (hopefully it makes it on that page):
Spoiler:
Image

Image


ETA: And it didn't... Oh well.

User avatar
Neil_Boekend
Posts: 3220
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:35 am UTC
Location: Yes.

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:20 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:
Neil_Boekend wrote:Hmm, I have still missed one EOTEOT.

The beanies are building the castle, under the command of a misguided scientist that is trying to revive his long dead wife. Queball will be forced to build the castle and the equipment. Megan will be imprisoned but not harmed. She'll be treated well, but she won't be allowed to leave the castle. She'll live in a guilded cage.[[snip]]Thus ends Time.

EOT End Of Time


Well, if the Beanies' civilization is so advanced that they have manufacturing Guilds, they're well on the way to... World Domination!
(Sorry, Mr. Dead Person, but some homophonic typos are just too good to pass up)

No excuses necessary. I had a chuckle from that one to.
Only the color red has a specific use: It's the color reserved for admin messages. (why it's available to us non-administrators is beyond me, but that's a different discussion all together). There are other lovely colors and bold text available to make stuff jump out.
Mikeski wrote:A "What If" update is never late. Nor is it early. It is posted precisely when it should be.

patzer's signature wrote:
flicky1991 wrote:I'm being quoted too much!

he/him/his

User avatar
Angelastic
Posts: 700
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:36 am UTC
Location: .at (let's see what's through here!)
Contact:

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Angelastic » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:23 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:The first three words match Speech 13, also by Beanie-2: ImageImageImage . ImageImageImageImage . ImageImage . ImageImageImageImageImage

Thanks for the cake, mscha and Eternal Density!

I don't know whether you didn't mention it because it was obvious, or you actually managed not to notice, but since other people have given other hypotheses, I should mention that the last word is (big)water or sea. So I guess the rest is 'let's go to the'.

ETA context

ETA revelation: they're going to the water.
Knight Temporal, and Archdeacon of buttermongery and ham and cheese sandwiches. Nobody sells butter except through me.
Image Smiley by yappobiscuits. Avatar by GLR, buffygirl, BlitzGirl & mscha, with cari.j.elliot's idea.
Haiku Detector
starts a trend to make way for
my robot army.

SinusPi
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:16 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SinusPi » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:29 pm UTC

Angelastic wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:The first three words match Speech 13, also by Beanie-2: ImageImageImage . ImageImageImageImage . ImageImage . ImageImageImageImageImage

I don't know whether you didn't mention it because it was obvious, or you actually managed not to notice, but since other people have given other hypotheses, I should mention that the last word is (big)water or sea. So I guess the rest is 'let's go to the'.

ETA context


37cNA is the sea..? Are you perhaps mistaking it for 342bJ..? And the page you contexted has 342'J...

User avatar
Angelastic
Posts: 700
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:36 am UTC
Location: .at (let's see what's through here!)
Contact:

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Angelastic » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:37 pm UTC

SinusPi wrote:
Angelastic wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:The first three words match Speech 13, also by Beanie-2: ImageImageImage . ImageImageImageImage . ImageImage . ImageImageImageImageImage

I don't know whether you didn't mention it because it was obvious, or you actually managed not to notice, but since other people have given other hypotheses, I should mention that the last word is (big)water or sea. So I guess the rest is 'let's go to the'.

ETA context


37cNA is the sea..? Are you perhaps mistaking it for 342bJ..? And the page you contexted has 342'J...


BlitzGirl was saying the first three words of this frame were the same as the first three words of speech 13. Speech 13 had 37cNA (probably 'castle') but the speech BlitzGirl was comparing to it said 3water.
Knight Temporal, and Archdeacon of buttermongery and ham and cheese sandwiches. Nobody sells butter except through me.
Image Smiley by yappobiscuits. Avatar by GLR, buffygirl, BlitzGirl & mscha, with cari.j.elliot's idea.
Haiku Detector
starts a trend to make way for
my robot army.

User avatar
mikro2nd
Posts: 174
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:52 pm UTC
Location: ɐɔıɹɟɐ

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mikro2nd » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:38 pm UTC

SinusPi wrote:I might have a little cautious revelation.

Image

Note the AM2. It was used in G2806 and exclaimed by Beanette in G2842. Could we have Beanie1's name here?

(edit) Oh. Pope! Decree: revelate. Something.


Ooooo... I do like that! In which case allow me to revelateX the transliteration of
am2.png
am2.png (1.37 KiB) Viewed 11985 times
... (Wait for It!)... it's
Spoiler:
RMS


Xyes, I know...
One world, one soul
Time pass, the river rolls

User avatar
charlie_grumbles
Posts: 1004
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:07 pm UTC
Location: Self Imposed Exile

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:40 pm UTC

BlueCrab wrote:
taixzo wrote:<snip>"Infinitely long" does not mean "contains every possibility". For example, the number 0.121121112111121111121111112... does not repeat, but doesn't contain every combination of numbers; it doesn't even contain a 3.
Thank you! Once again an otter has helped me fix a glitch in my worldview. The idea that an infinite universe would contain various obnoxious scenarios has always really bothered me. The possibility for horrors still exist, of course, but they're not guaranteed by the very definition of the universe.

Let me put on my mathematicians hat again and give you a bit more enlightenment. Taixzo's number is infinite and not repeating, but it does have a regular pattern. However, an infinite string of random digits would contain any sequence of any length that you would care to choose. This is due to (one version of) the "law of large numbers" which says, more or less, that any thing that can happen will happen if given enough chances to happen. An infinite string of rolls of a fair die, for example will contain a sequence of 1000 sixes, or 10000, or any given value. Infinity is strange stuff.

Moreover your chosen "event" will occur an infinite number of times. Go figure.

Here is the math. Your event has an incredibly small probability of occurrence. Call it p. p is very small. So 1/p is large. In approximately 1/p rolls of the die you would expect it to happen approximately once. In a few multiples of 1/p you would almost certainly expect it to occur once at least. But in an infinite sequence you have an infinite number of those also. Got it?
Lurking. Watching. Thinking. Writing. Waiting.
-- Charlie Grumbles

User avatar
Angelastic
Posts: 700
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:36 am UTC
Location: .at (let's see what's through here!)
Contact:

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Angelastic » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:45 pm UTC

charlie_grumbles wrote:
BlueCrab wrote:
taixzo wrote:<snip>"Infinitely long" does not mean "contains every possibility". For example, the number 0.121121112111121111121111112... does not repeat, but doesn't contain every combination of numbers; it doesn't even contain a 3.
Thank you! Once again an otter has helped me fix a glitch in my worldview. The idea that an infinite universe would contain various obnoxious scenarios has always really bothered me. The possibility for horrors still exist, of course, but they're not guaranteed by the very definition of the universe.

Let me put on my mathematicians hat again and give you a bit more enlightenment. Taixzo's number is infinite and not repeating, but it does have a regular pattern. However, an infinite string of random digits would contain any sequence of any length that you would care to choose.

And just because this has been mentioned the other three times this topic came up, if you're wondering whether the digits of a number are sufficiently random as to contain everything, you need to figure out if it's normal.
Knight Temporal, and Archdeacon of buttermongery and ham and cheese sandwiches. Nobody sells butter except through me.
Image Smiley by yappobiscuits. Avatar by GLR, buffygirl, BlitzGirl & mscha, with cari.j.elliot's idea.
Haiku Detector
starts a trend to make way for
my robot army.

User avatar
lmjb1964
Posts: 2461
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:09 pm UTC
Location: In the Present! Need to ketchup NP 2236-2280, plus NP 2026-2058 and something like 2060-2090+?.

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby lmjb1964 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:54 pm UTC

Kazza3 wrote:
fhorn wrote:Hoo boy, that's a lot of reeds all in one place, says the brass player..... On the bright side, you didn't have to shake hands with all those trumpet players (tpt player, meeting anyone: "hi, I'm better than you").

Haha, yes... not as bad as singers though.

Another musician joke, told to me by a trumpet player:
Q: What does a trumpet player use for contraception?
A: His personality.

yappobiscuits wrote:I had some artistic urges, so here's a present present!
Spoiler:
(Note: I made sure to include all the landmarks, but obviously things are very much not to scale.)
[img]http://forums.xkcd.com/download/file.php?id=37972&mode=view[/img

I know it's been said, many times, many ways, but Merry Chr..I mean, WOW! Yappo, you are truly a man of many talents!

Chinchokmataa wrote:
Spoiler:
Hello everyone! Long time lurker here making a first post onto the OTT. As someone working on a Linguistics major, I thought I might try my hand at an analysis of Beanish.

Here is my initial take:
--I suspect (but I am not 100%), that the representation here is an alphabet, as opposed to a syllabary (or abjad or what have you). I count about 44 separate characters, which is in line with an alphabet (that is about high-mid in terms of number of sounds; English as about 33 by the quick messy count I just did), but very low for a syllabary. However, we are only dealing with a small snippit of the language, so we could be missing something.
--The average symbol-to-word rate is about 3.09, which might mean that we are dealing with a language that prefers words of the general shape CVC (C=consonant, V=vowel) if we are dealing with an alphabet. Of course, a language that prefers words of the shape CVCVCV (as predicted by a syllabary) is not impossible by any means of the imagination.
--If beanish does use an alphabet, we might be able to identify the identity of some of the symbols. For example, all symbols used for single-symbol words would probably be vowels (unless it is a language that allows some consonants to be used as vowels, but those are rare).
--Some of the words seem to be related to each other by symbol additions/slight character modifications. Obviously, these guys should be looked into.
--I am certain that it has already been noted that several of the characters are different from each other by a small set of diacritics. I am not sure what exactly that means in terms of the sound system of Beanish, and it might be problematic for the alphabet interpretation. It seems like these letters should be related by the phonetic qualities, however, the question is how they are related. It might be useful to note that some of the symbols so far do not seem to use any diacritics, specifically U, N, and G, and some of the rotated variants, depending on interpretation.

That's all I have time for now. Note that this is being posted with very little ketchup, so people are welcome to tell me what has already been said on the issue. I'll keep working at it and see what I come up with.

Nice first post! I really admire all the work that's been done with Beanish. Very impressive.

So perlrigg got a job and marchlight got promoted. Congrats to both! But it looks like BytEfLUSh was in a robbery. Yikes! I'm glad you're ok.

latent22, great idea for an audio version of the OTC, and thanks for posting the contributions so far. They're all great. I really need to get a mic of some sort. I have a few things I'd like to record for the OTT, but I'm not sure how to do it. :? But I think the Beanish should sound like the adults in a Peanuts cartoon.

My revelation: I still haven't gone to bed and I have to get up for work in about 2 newpix. Damn. Adios, amoebas!
Image

You helped Addams stay in her home, and gave her a better life. She thanks you, and so do I.
Imagesmiley by yappo
That's a robot but it totally counts. Image

bot by balthasar_s

SinusPi
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:16 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SinusPi » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:00 pm UTC

DescendONG!
Image

(edit) Ah-ha, my first ninjanewpix!
Last edited by SinusPi on Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:02 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
foilman
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:48 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby foilman » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:00 pm UTC

Very exciting, our first interior...

User avatar
CasCat
Posts: 277
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 1:42 am UTC

IntONG the Castle

Postby CasCat » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:01 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Image


Ninja'd again, and I tried to post within a second or two. I must have a slow connection....
BlitzGirl the Fast the First

User avatar
cellocgw
Posts: 2044
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:40 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cellocgw » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:01 pm UTC

Angelastic wrote:
charlie_grumbles wrote:
BlueCrab wrote:
taixzo wrote:<snip>"Infinitely long" does not mean "contains every possibility". For example, the number 0.121121112111121111121111112... does not repeat, but doesn't contain every combination of numbers; it doesn't even contain a 3.
Thank you! Once again an otter has helped me fix a glitch in my worldview. The idea that an infinite universe would contain various obnoxious scenarios has always really bothered me. The possibility for horrors still exist, of course, but they're not guaranteed by the very definition of the universe.

Let me put on my mathematicians hat again and give you a bit more enlightenment. Taixzo's number is infinite and not repeating, but it does have a regular pattern. However, an infinite string of random digits would contain any sequence of any length that you would care to choose.

And just because this has been mentioned the other three times this topic came up, if you're wondering whether the digits of a number are sufficiently random as to contain everything, you need to figure out if it's normal.


Which reminds me of a cool puzzler you can use to mystify non-mathematicians (or perhaps convince them of your total nerdness). Here goes:
You're in Hell, and all you know is that at some future date (call it Aleph-Null Day), if you have enough money, you can buy your way out. The Devil gives you two choices. One: He arrives every day , adds ten $1 bills to the top of your stack of money, and removes three bills from the bottom. Two: he arrives every day, adds ten $1 bills to the top of your stack, then removes 6 bills from the top of the stack. Which option leaves you with more money on Aleph-Null Day?
:twisted:

Not that I'm implying that the OTC or the OTT will continue that long...
https://app.box.com/witthoftresume
Former OTTer
Vote cellocgw for President 2020. #ScienceintheWhiteHouse http://cellocgw.wordpress.com
"The Planck length is 3.81779e-33 picas." -- keithl
" Earth weighs almost exactly π milliJupiters" -- what-if #146, note 7

User avatar
cellocgw
Posts: 2044
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:40 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cellocgw » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:02 pm UTC

foilman wrote:Very exciting, our first interior...


This is soooo going to end up with a cavern full of horror and a little man behind the curtain.
https://app.box.com/witthoftresume
Former OTTer
Vote cellocgw for President 2020. #ScienceintheWhiteHouse http://cellocgw.wordpress.com
"The Planck length is 3.81779e-33 picas." -- keithl
" Earth weighs almost exactly π milliJupiters" -- what-if #146, note 7

SinusPi
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:16 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SinusPi » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:08 pm UTC

You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

User avatar
Wildhound
Posts: 248
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:34 pm UTC
Location: Lost in Time.

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Wildhound » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:10 pm UTC

SinusPi wrote:DescendONG!
Spoiler:
Image


(edit) Ah-ha, my first ninjanewpix!


WELL THAT WAS UNEXPECTED!
Last edited by Wildhound on Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:21 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Now and forever, a staunch TimeKeeper amongst heretics.

OTC Android Live Wallpaper

User avatar
mscha
Posts: 6902
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:21 pm UTC
Location: NL
Contact:

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:12 pm UTC

Tunnel̊ Neat̿
List¹ of all Frames of Time and after Time.
New here? Questions? Check the wiki.
Don't worry, feed molpies⁴.
Image
Holy Croce
Default footnotes; standard OTT-np2166m 1.2:
Spoiler:
Image
Image

User avatar
SBN
Saved
Posts: 2232
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:15 pm UTC
Location: No longer in the home of the raptorcats, now in the home of the raptorcats.

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SBN » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:14 pm UTC

SinusPi wrote:DescendONG!

Exciting. Could those be doors on the landings?

Angelastic wrote:
charlie_grumbles wrote:Let me put on my mathematicians hat again and give you a bit more enlightenment. Taixzo's number is infinite and not repeating, but it does have a regular pattern. However, an infinite string of random digits would contain any sequence of any length that you would care to choose.

And just because this has been mentioned the other three times this topic came up, if you're wondering whether the digits of a number are sufficiently random as to contain everything, you need to figure out if it's normal.

And since when did OTTers care about normal?
Revelation:
I have a mopey wolpy this morning. Her favorite person in the world isn't home. She keeps looking, but to no avail, he's gone for the day. Everyone should be loved the way she loves him. (But maybe with less drool.) I'm the largest wolpy's favorite, but he's less demonstrative. Comes from needing to try several times before he found his forever home. I'm also pretty confident that he'd throw me over in a heartbeat if there was a child he could own. Smallest wolpy's favorite is away until probably Christmas, since her summer job and college are both six states away. (And, due to that unfortunate gravity surge, they can't even Skype.)
astrotter wrote:It is not particularly clear to me at this time that we are not overanalyzing this...

Randalspeed thunk, iskinner, and other blitzers! Notes from the before-was improve the after-when.
Some Ways to Time
NetWeasel wrote:I want to put that in my sig... BUT I CAN'T!!!!

User avatar
Neil_Boekend
Posts: 3220
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:35 am UTC
Location: Yes.

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:14 pm UTC

Assuming they didn't go up between M2841 and M2842 they are entering the dungeons of this castle. There are to many ways Time can end there (although most require the color red in addition to the black and white that we've been having) I can't choose.

Spoiler:
Okay, I'll choose. They'll be tortured with the foam maiden and the comfy chair. This'll go on until the heat death of the universe. Thus ends Time.
Mikeski wrote:A "What If" update is never late. Nor is it early. It is posted precisely when it should be.

patzer's signature wrote:
flicky1991 wrote:I'm being quoted too much!

he/him/his

User avatar
Whizbang
The Best Reporter
Posts: 2238
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:50 pm UTC
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Whizbang » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:17 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:Which reminds me of a cool puzzler you can use to mystify non-mathematicians (or perhaps convince them of your total nerdness). Here goes:
You're in Hell, and all you know is that at some future date (call it Aleph-Null Day), if you have enough money, you can buy your way out. The Devil gives you two choices. One: He arrives every day , adds ten $1 bills to the top of your stack of money, and removes three bills from the bottom. Two: he arrives every day, adds ten $1 bills to the top of your stack, then removes 6 bills from the top of the stack. Which option leaves you with more money on Aleph-Null Day?
:twisted:


You seem to be missing a key point of information. What do you start with? I notice that you specify $1 bills being adding, but only that "three bills" are removed from the bottom. What bills do you start with? If you have a tall stack of $100 bills, it could be quite some time before you get more money than you lose each day with option 1, so option 2 is the best choice. If they are all ones, though, you get $7 extra every day with option 1 vs $4 every day with option 2.

User avatar
NoMouse
Posts: 726
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:05 pm UTC
Location: Czech Republic

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NoMouse » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:21 pm UTC

Image Ketchup time!

taixzo wrote:Erm. Oddly, it seems to be a very bad idea to search "leopard on keyboard" with safesearch off.
Of course I had to try it... Image
Valarya wrote:
Spoiler:
Kazza3 wrote:
fhorn wrote:I play French horn, and taught elementary school (ages 6 - 11 or 12) general music (singing, dancing, reading, writing, playing - Kodaly technique, specifically - drank the koolaid early on and will bore anyone to death with wondrous tales of music literacy, sight-singing and the joys and limitations of movable do!).
and you?

Very nice. Limitations of movable do, never! I'm a clarinetist (as may have been evidenced by the conference and my avatar), in my first year of a music performance course at uni.
fhorn wrote:Hoo boy, that's a lot of reeds all in one place, says the brass player..... On the bright side, you didn't have to shake hands with all those trumpet players (tpt player, meeting anyone: "hi, I'm better than you").

Haha, yes... not as bad as singers though.

How did I miss this entire discussion? Was it in one of the 20 pages I skipped recently? Is this blindposting or what?

*ahem* Hi. *shakes your hand* I'm a trumpet player. I'm better than you. :P jk jk - but I laughed. My daughter is 12 and sits 1st chair French Horn so we're a happy lil brass family. Brass is always better.. oops, did I do it again? :mrgreen:

Oh hey, hi! Maybe you're better than me but I'm better than you too! :mrgreen: Yes, trumpet player here. How many musicians are there in the OTT anyway? Maybe we could form OTB - The One True Band. :lol:
adnapemit wrote:I vote for yappobiscuits as the voice of cueball because I was surprised that he sounded EXACTLY(well very very close) like how I imagined Cueball sounds.
(would still like to hear other people though)
I totally agree. Also very good acting.
yappobiscuits wrote:I had some artistic urges, so here's a present present!
(Note: I made sure to include all the landmarks, but obviously things are very much not to scale.)
Spoiler:
Image

Seaish version.
Redundant:
Spoiler:
redundakitty8.jpg

WorldOfTime.png
Wow. That's neat. Fantastic! Absolutely fantastic!
Spoiler:
Image


Wow, the newpix. I thought it was screenshot from some computer game. Like Prince of Persia or something. :D

ETA:
Wildhound wrote:
SinusPi wrote:DescendONG!
Spoiler:
Image


(edit) Ah-ha, my first ninjanewpix!


WELL THAT WAS UNEXPECTED!

NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!

Prediction: Comfy chair in the next newpix.


Also, this is my ImageImageImageth post!
Time. The final frontier. These are the voyages of Cueball and Megan. Its continuing mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before.

User avatar
Valarya
Posts: 975
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:27 pm UTC
Location: Nashville

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Valarya » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:28 pm UTC

yappobiscuits wrote:I'll even add mine to the pile (four lines instead of just one because I'm greedy :P) although I doubt we'll end up going for a British Cueball... still, just for fun :P

I think you sound great, yappo! Perfect 'attitude,' if that's the right word. You have my vote! Though if Cue is british, Megan will have to be also. :P

mscha wrote:I don't sound like Cueball at all, and anyway, we can't have a Cueball with a Dutch accent. But I don't want to be a spoilsport, so here.

I could barely hear your accent. In fact, you sounded American. :P Probably because it was such a short sentence, but that's interesting.. haha. You also have a very deep voice!

Ooooh, A TUNNEL! Image
Caridnal of Cupcakes | Friaress of Frosting | Pope of Pocket Pastries
Occasional basement dweller.

Image

User avatar
sford
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 6:50 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby sford » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:33 pm UTC

All right! Molpy UP, and ready for jazzercise!
Spoiler:
Image
Earth pigs' teeth have a clusters of thin, upright, parallel tubes of vasodentin (a modified form of dentine), with individual pulp canals, held together by cementum. Aren't you glad you know?


Not much to add other than marveling at everybody's inspired posting (and, of course, Randall's inspired story telling).

I am a bit sad I was gone for the castle decree. I don't think anybody thought of this:

Spoiler:
Image


ETA: Woo! My post count equals my age! Cake all around!
Spoiler:
Image
Yellowcake is produced by passing raw uranium ore through crushers and grinders ... and further processed with concentrated acid, alkaline, or peroxide solutions to leach out the uranium. Yellowcake is what remains after drying and filtering.
Last edited by sford on Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:57 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
ZoomanSP
Posts: 1935
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 11:23 am UTC
Location: Twelve days north of the Othercomic threads, and a few degrees south of complete insanity. (©yappo)

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ZoomanSP » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:36 pm UTC

Did anyone try to click and drag this NP?
Wait on.

Image
Spoiler:
Kieryn wrote:They have a culture involving hat wearing. What kind of a collective would come up with such a thing!?
BlitzGirl wrote:I'll get the razor and finish off Occam while we're at it.
ucim / Megan wrote:"It can do whatever it wants. It's the OTT."

User avatar
mscha
Posts: 6902
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:21 pm UTC
Location: NL
Contact:

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:39 pm UTC

Happy 200th, NoMouse!
Spoiler:
Image
List¹ of all Frames of Time and after Time.
New here? Questions? Check the wiki.
Don't worry, feed molpies⁴.
Image
Holy Croce
Default footnotes; standard OTT-np2166m 1.2:
Spoiler:
Image
Image

User avatar
xpatiate
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:02 am UTC
Contact:

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby xpatiate » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:45 pm UTC

Ooh underground! What's going to be in that big chamber? Is that the destination or will they keep going down? Will Cuegan start freaking out? (I suspect I would if I had lived on a beach all my life and suddenly found myself underneath a massive pile of rock and dirt.)

Valarya wrote:I think you sound great, yappo! Perfect 'attitude,' if that's the right word. You have my vote! Though if Cue is british, Megan will have to be also. :P


I think a British Cueball and an American Megan would be perfect :D Makes no sense geographically of course, but a wild mix of inexplicable accents never seems to bother Disney characters.

sford wrote:All right! Molpy UP, and ready for jazzercise!
Spoiler:
Image
Earth pigs' teeth have a clusters of thin, upright, parallel tubes of vasodentin (a modified form of dentine), with individual pulp canals, held together by cementum. Aren't you glad you know?



Here's one for you sford - I learned about "moss piglets" today. Also known as "water bears". Sounds cute right?

Spoiler:
Image


Actually this one does look kind of cuddly...
Spoiler:
Image

User avatar
Rule110
Posts: 385
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:14 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Rule110 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:48 pm UTC

Whizbang wrote:
cellocgw wrote:Which reminds me of a cool puzzler you can use to mystify non-mathematicians (or perhaps convince them of your total nerdness). Here goes:
You're in Hell, and all you know is that at some future date (call it Aleph-Null Day), if you have enough money, you can buy your way out. The Devil gives you two choices. One: He arrives every day , adds ten $1 bills to the top of your stack of money, and removes three bills from the bottom. Two: he arrives every day, adds ten $1 bills to the top of your stack, then removes 6 bills from the top of the stack. Which option leaves you with more money on Aleph-Null Day?
:twisted:


You seem to be missing a key point of information. What do you start with? I notice that you specify $1 bills being adding, but only that "three bills" are removed from the bottom. What bills do you start with? If you have a tall stack of $100 bills, it could be quite some time before you get more money than you lose each day with option 1, so option 2 is the best choice. If they are all ones, though, you get $7 extra every day with option 1 vs $4 every day with option 2.


There's another consideration, which is whether aleph-null day occurs after a finite or an infinite number of days have passed. If it's an infinite number of days, then with option one, every bill that gets added to the stack also gets removed from it (the bills added on day n get removed on approximately day 10n/3), so you have no money. With option two, four of the bills that get added to the stack each day remain there forever, so you have an infinite stack of bills on aleph-null day. So option two is better... or is it?

The problem with that reasoning is, if it's an infinite number of days, then aleph-null day never actually occurs (since you can only ever experience a finite number of days in succession), so the point is moot, and you might as well choose option 1 and be as rich as possible during each of the days to come. In other words, every day your stack grows by 7 bills, but "day infinity" can't arrive until the stack is empty, which makes it all the more obvious that "day infinity" never gets one iota closer. And, if aleph-null day is a day that can actually occur; that is, a day following some finite number of days; you'll have more money on that day with option 1.
Last edited by Rule110 on Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:55 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
If you're lost you can look--and you will find me
Time after Time...

User avatar
Febrion
Posts: 276
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:27 pm UTC
Location: anchored

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Febrion » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:49 pm UTC

Whizbang wrote:
Spoiler:
cellocgw wrote:Which reminds me of a cool puzzler you can use to mystify non-mathematicians (or perhaps convince them of your total nerdness). Here goes:
You're in Hell, and all you know is that at some future date (call it Aleph-Null Day), if you have enough money, you can buy your way out. The Devil gives you two choices. One: He arrives every day , adds ten $1 bills to the top of your stack of money, and removes three bills from the bottom. Two: he arrives every day, adds ten $1 bills to the top of your stack, then removes 6 bills from the top of the stack. Which option leaves you with more money on Aleph-Null Day?
:twisted:

You seem to be missing a key point of information. What do you start with? I notice that you specify $1 bills being adding, but only that "three bills" are removed from the bottom. What bills do you start with? If you have a tall stack of $100 bills, it could be quite some time before you get more money than you lose each day with option 1, so option 2 is the best choice. If they are all ones, though, you get $7 extra every day with option 1 vs $4 every day with option 2.


Well, technically,
Spoiler:
If you don't start with a stack of money (you can't take it with you after all), then he doesn't actually give you any money in either scenario.
Temporal Knight Sir Junction, Lord of the Sawtooth Snap
Time flies like a River, sand flies like a Trebuchét

User avatar
moody7277
Posts: 616
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:06 pm UTC
Location: Extreme south Texas

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby moody7277 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:52 pm UTC

Well, I guess that answers my question from NP1103.

charlie_grumbles wrote:
BlueCrab wrote:
taixzo wrote:<snip>"Infinitely long" does not mean "contains every possibility". For example, the number 0.121121112111121111121111112... does not repeat, but doesn't contain every combination of numbers; it doesn't even contain a 3.
Thank you! Once again an otter has helped me fix a glitch in my worldview. The idea that an infinite universe would contain various obnoxious scenarios has always really bothered me. The possibility for horrors still exist, of course, but they're not guaranteed by the very definition of the universe.

Let me put on my mathematicians hat again and give you a bit more enlightenment. Taixzo's number is infinite and not repeating, but it does have a regular pattern. However, an infinite string of random digits would contain any sequence of any length that you would care to choose. This is due to (one version of) the "law of large numbers" which says, more or less, that any thing that can happen will happen if given enough chances to happen. An infinite string of rolls of a fair die, for example will contain a sequence of 1000 sixes, or 10000, or any given value. Infinity is strange stuff.

Moreover your chosen "event" will occur an infinite number of times. Go figure.

Here is the math. Your event has an incredibly small probability of occurrence. Call it p. p is very small. So 1/p is large. In approximately 1/p rolls of the die you would expect it to happen approximately once. In a few multiples of 1/p you would almost certainly expect it to occur once at least. But in an infinite sequence you have an infinite number of those also. Got it?


This is also the reasoning behind Max Tegmark's first type of parallel universe. Assuming that the universe is infinite, there is some duplicate of the arrangement of the molecules in your body (i.e. you). The only thing is that it is an un-Randally distance away (~10^(10^28) m).
The story of my life in xkcdmafia:

Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

User avatar
nerdsniped
Posts: 159
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 6:06 am UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby nerdsniped » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:53 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:...Which reminds me of a cool puzzler you can use to mystify non-mathematicians (or perhaps convince them of your total nerdness). Here goes:
You're in Hell, and all you know is that at some future date (call it Aleph-Null Day), if you have enough money, you can buy your way out. The Devil gives you two choices. One: He arrives every day , adds ten $1 bills to the top of your stack of money, and removes three bills from the bottom. Two: he arrives every day, adds ten $1 bills to the top of your stack, then removes 6 bills from the top of the stack. Which option leaves you with more money on Aleph-Null Day?
:twisted:

Not that I'm implying that the OTC or the OTT will continue that long...

OK, I'll bite:

Let's assume you start with no money. On successive days, with option A, you'll end with $7, 14, 21, etc. With option B, you'll end each day with $4, 8, 12, etc. Clearly, option A is better: after N days you have 7N dollars, but with option B you only have 4N dollars. So I choose option A.

Aha! you say. This is the devil after all, and so there's a trick: Aleph-Null is infinite. When morning (or the Hellish equivalent) dawns on Aleph-Null Day, and the devil comes to check my pile, I will be astonished to see that it is empty, and I am doomed to remain in Hell forever! (Actually, at this point I have already remained in Hell forever, but never mind that; I was sustained by my confidence -- alas, misplaced! -- of my eventual release.)

How can the pile of dollars be empty? Well, every bill that is ever added to the pile, is eventually removed. Consider bill #23. It will be added on day 3 (along with bills 21 through 30), but removed on day 8 (along with bills 22 and 24). For any bill you might consider, whether it be #1, #1024, or #googol, there is a day on which it is removed from the stack. Therefore, on Aleph-Null Day, no bills remain.

Spoiler:
But the joke, for once, is on the devil! There can never be an "Aleph-Null Day"; the concept is flawed. Consider this: when I awaken on Aleph-Null Day, what did I have for dinner the night before? And which bills did I receive that previous morning? There cannot have been a night before, or a previous morning, because whatever the previous day was, it would be followed by another finite day. Aleph-Null Day never arrives, and so... I remain in Hell forever. Hmm.

The real point is that the impossibility of Aleph-Null Day resolves the paradox. Option A really does yield strictly more money, after any number of days, than Option B. The idea that Option A yields an empty pile on Aleph-Null Day is meaningless, because there is no such thing as an Aleph-Null Day. You might as well ask how much money I would have on the day that is numbered both 8 and 111. There is no such day; 8 and 111 are distinct.

Applying this back the OTC: if you watch 10 newpix each day, and then back up by six newpix (keeping your browser open to the Book of Aubron), you will eventually reach the end of Time. But if you watch 10 newpix each day, and then forget the first three of them, you can keep watching Time forever, Loopishly.
ETA: multi-ninja'd.
New to the Time thread? Click here!

"we are dangerously close to answers. Let's hope they lead to more questions..." -- HES

"Expect friskiness." -- keithl

User avatar
Whizbang
The Best Reporter
Posts: 2238
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:50 pm UTC
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Whizbang » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:56 pm UTC

Prediction:
Image

Redundant:
Spoiler:
Image
Get it? Redundant = Incestuous? Ok, so the joke is a bit of a stretch...

The IrONG ThrONGe.png

User avatar
foilman
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:48 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby foilman » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:00 pm UTC

DescendONG
Image

Tom17
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:23 pm UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Tom17 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:00 pm UTC

DeepONG and deepONG
Spoiler:
Image

ETA: Ninja'd!
Last edited by Tom17 on Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:11 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
moody7277
Posts: 616
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:06 pm UTC
Location: Extreme south Texas

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby moody7277 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:02 pm UTC

No one in the past few ONGs went with "good luck stormONG the castle?" Inconceivable.
The story of my life in xkcdmafia:

Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

User avatar
Fictioneer
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:38 pm UTC
Location: Downtown Canada

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Fictioneer » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:06 pm UTC

Prediction: Dragon in the chamber protecting a pile of gold. Wearing a hat. Wait, where'd ChronosDragon go?

Revelation: This is my first try at posting an image -- let's see if I can follow instructions correctly... If not, my revelation is that I'm inept at it.

Molpy up!
Attachments
molpy up.jpg
molpy up.jpg (19.83 KiB) Viewed 11704 times

User avatar
Whizbang
The Best Reporter
Posts: 2238
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:50 pm UTC
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Whizbang » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:19 pm UTC

Rule110 wrote:
Spoiler:
Whizbang wrote:
cellocgw wrote:Which reminds me of a cool puzzler you can use to mystify non-mathematicians (or perhaps convince them of your total nerdness). Here goes:
You're in Hell, and all you know is that at some future date (call it Aleph-Null Day), if you have enough money, you can buy your way out. The Devil gives you two choices. One: He arrives every day , adds ten $1 bills to the top of your stack of money, and removes three bills from the bottom. Two: he arrives every day, adds ten $1 bills to the top of your stack, then removes 6 bills from the top of the stack. Which option leaves you with more money on Aleph-Null Day?
:twisted:


You seem to be missing a key point of information. What do you start with? I notice that you specify $1 bills being adding, but only that "three bills" are removed from the bottom. What bills do you start with? If you have a tall stack of $100 bills, it could be quite some time before you get more money than you lose each day with option 1, so option 2 is the best choice. If they are all ones, though, you get $7 extra every day with option 1 vs $4 every day with option 2.

There's another consideration, which is whether aleph-null day occurs after a finite or an infinite number of days have passed. If it's an infinite number of days, then with option one, every bill that gets added to the stack also gets removed from it (the bills added on day n get removed on approximately day 10n/3), so you have no money. With option two, four of the bills that get added to the stack each day remain there forever, so you have an infinite stack of bills on aleph-null day. So option two is better... or is it?

The problem with that reasoning is, if it's an infinite number of days, then aleph-null day never actually occurs (since you can only ever experience a finite number of days in succession), so the point is moot, and you might as well choose option 1 and be as rich as possible during each of the days to come. In other words, every day your stack grows by 7 bills, but "day infinity" can't arrive until the stack is empty, which makes it all the more obvious that "day infinity" never gets one iota closer. And, if aleph-null day is a day that can actually occur; that is, a day following some finite number of days; you'll have more money on that day with option 1.


This seems fishy to my less-educated mind. For all intents and purposes, the -3 or -6 doesn't happen. 10-3=7. In an infinite timeframe, whether you take away a specific bill on the same day you add it or a few days later, the end result is 10-3=7. If you multiply each component by infinity then 10∞ - 3∞ = 7∞. The 10∞ and the -3∞ don't even really exist. 10∞ -3∞ = 0∞ + 7∞. And 0 times anything, even ∞ equals 0. If you accept that you eventually take away all bills and are left with nothing, then you also have to accept that at the same time, you've added 2.33333... times more bills than you've taken away, leaving you with both no bills and an infinite amount of bills. But accepting the no bills remaining idea is silly and a stretch of logic, in my opinion.

Consider: You have a bank account (assuming it starts with at least a little money) that earns 10% APR interest, but has a fee of 3% annually. Given an infinite number of years, am I left with no money? No, of course not. I still get the difference between the two rates.

cellocgw wrote:Nope, you're missing the point. Hint: Google "Aleph-Null"
I just Googled it and nothing is any clearer.

User avatar
nerdsniped
Posts: 159
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 6:06 am UTC

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby nerdsniped » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:27 pm UTC

Whizbang wrote:This seems fishy to my less-educated mind. For all intents and purposes, the -3 or -6 doesn't happen. 10-3=7. In an infinite timeframe, whether you take away a specific bill on the same day you add it or a few days later, the end result is 10-3=7. If you multiply each component by infinity then 10∞ - 3∞ = 7∞. The 10∞ and the -3∞ don't even really exist. 10∞ -3∞ = 0∞ + 7∞. And 0 times anything, even ∞ equals 0. If you accept that you eventually take away all bills and are left with nothing, then you also have to accept that at the same time, you've added 2.33333... times more bills than you've taken away, leaving you with both no bills and an infinite amount of bills. But accepting the no bills remaining idea is silly and a stretch of logic, in my opinion.

OK, fine, so on Aleph-Null Day, you say you'll have an infinite amount of bills. Suppose that, as we went day by day, we numbered the bills. On Aleph-Null Day, let's grab one bill from your infinite pile. What number is written on that bill? No matter what number we find, a contradiction arises: there is a specific day on which that numbered bill should have been removed. So your pile must be empty.

However, your argument that the pile cannot be empty is also sound. As you say, the pile only grows, so how could it ever be empty? The resolution is that there is no such thing as Aleph-Null Day. Wait for it as long as you like; it will never arrive, we will never get to see how large the pile might have been, and the argument is moot.

ETA: maybe this will help. We effectively have two processes occurring: adding new bills to the top of the pile, and removing bills from the bottom of the pile. Say the Devil sends a pair of his minions, the Adder Imp and the Remover Imp, to perform these functions.

Now, the Adder Imp works faster than the Remover Imp, so the pile keeps growing. The conceit is that on Aleph-Null Day, both imps have had infinite time to work, and so their output becomes equal -- the Remover Imp will have removed just as many bills as the Adder Imp added, since they'll both have done "infinity". The flaw is that arithmetic simply doesn't work if you try to apply it to infinities like this. It's a bit like asking what happens when an irresistible force meets an immovable object: you can argue as much as you like, but the question was silly to begin with; if the universe contains an immovable object, then by definition it does not also contain an irresistible force.
New to the Time thread? Click here!

"we are dangerously close to answers. Let's hope they lead to more questions..." -- HES

"Expect friskiness." -- keithl

User avatar
NetWeasel
Posts: 297
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:08 pm UTC
Location: South Carolina, USA

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:33 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:Which reminds me of a cool puzzler you can use to mystify non-mathematicians (or perhaps convince them of your total nerdness). Here goes:
You're in Hell, and all you know is that at some future date (call it Aleph-Null Day), if you have enough money, you can buy your way out. The Devil gives you two choices. One: He arrives every day , adds ten $1 bills to the top of your stack of money, and removes three bills from the bottom. Two: he arrives every day, adds ten $1 bills to the top of your stack, then removes 6 bills from the top of the stack. Which option leaves you with more money on Aleph-Null Day?

Allow me to slightly rephrase this to make more sense... instead of simply removing 3 or 6 bills, he burns them, while you watch.

Under option one, any given bill in the stack will eventually be burned.
Under option two, any given bill that was not burned the day it arrived, is yours to keep. (therefore more money, theoretically)

Now you get to the infinity paradoxes... Under option one, on the day any given bill is burned, there is a huge stack of bills on top of that bill. The exact amount can be calculated, and is left as an exersize for the person who posed the question in the first place. (notice I did not say "poser.") If the number of bill N is sufficiently large, you should be able to climb the stack of bills and escape hell.

ETA: another question -- suppose, under option one, every day after the devil leaves, you simply MOVE three bills from the top to the bottom. You haven't changed the amount of money... or HAVE you?
Last edited by NetWeasel on Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:46 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Remember waiting a half hour for one darkening pixel? Pepperidge Farms remembers...
Note To Blitzers:It is advisable NOT to go past page 1130 until you've seen up to frame 2900 (Geekwagon Numbering). A lot is happening, and really, you do not want to skip ahead at that point.

User avatar
taixzo
Posts: 1617
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:54 am UTC
Location: The Present

Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby taixzo » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:35 pm UTC

Flotter wrote:What if everything takes place on MarsNew Netherlands?


I'd like to point out two of the alt-texts from this what-if:
Spoiler:
Instead of Earth ocean, portal contained bobcat. Would not buy again.

Zoom in. Enhance.

It's all related!


Angelastic wrote:
charlie_grumbles wrote:
BlueCrab wrote:
taixzo wrote:<snip>"Infinitely long" does not mean "contains every possibility". For example, the number 0.121121112111121111121111112... does not repeat, but doesn't contain every combination of numbers; it doesn't even contain a 3.
Thank you! Once again an otter has helped me fix a glitch in my worldview. The idea that an infinite universe would contain various obnoxious scenarios has always really bothered me. The possibility for horrors still exist, of course, but they're not guaranteed by the very definition of the universe.

Let me put on my mathematicians hat again and give you a bit more enlightenment. Taixzo's number is infinite and not repeating, but it does have a regular pattern. However, an infinite string of random digits would contain any sequence of any length that you would care to choose.

And just because this has been mentioned the other three times this topic came up, if you're wondering whether the digits of a number are sufficiently random as to contain everything, you need to figure out if it's normal.


And I find it interesting that for many irrational numbers, we do not in fact know whether they are normal, such as the square root of two, pi, and e, although all three are believed to be normal until proven otherwise.
BlitzGirl the Next
BlitzGirl the Fast
Knight Temporal
Bringer of the Light

Useless utilities: Newpix clock for Mac OS X, Newpix clock for Ubuntu

Sandgarden - a relaxing experience for Time Waiters

Best wishes to GnomeAnne, ColletArrow and january1may! One day you will all join me in the Present!


Return to “Individual XKCD Comic Threads”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 36 guests