1190: "Time"

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jovialbard » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:58 pm UTC

didn't see i was ninja'd... once again... so instead some witty commentary:

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby b2bomberkrh » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:00 pm UTC

edfel wrote:
lgw wrote:...
How do we know the latitude precisely - I missed that? Doesn't that depend on what day of the year it is? Unless I'm quite confused, angle of sunset does, which stars are visible does, and so on.

Nope. We get the camera angle compared to the axis of rotation by looking at the angle of the stars going in straight lines (we don't even need the horizon for his)
Best (seaish) explanation: there. Do open the spoiler :)
Or (riverish): the wiki


I believe you do need a horizon, since you need an angle relative to something, unless you assume the camera is horizontal.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby b2bomberkrh » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:00 pm UTC

Oh my gosh, TONS of text, this is gonna take a couple of minutes.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby anabatica » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:01 pm UTC

b2bomberkrh wrote:Essentially, the circular arcs of the setting stars allows pinpointing of the location of the North Star (the North celestial pole) and how far above the horizon it is determines latitude. I think a method was actually used based on the celestial equator, but it's the same idea.


Something that occurred to me after the night passed so I didn't bring it up, is that wouldn't the straightness of the lines be influenced by whichever projection Randall used?

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Earthling on Mars » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:02 pm UTC

buffygirl wrote:EDIT: PAGE-PRESIDENT! Decree: respond to my thoughts, above! or not.... whatever. it's up to you.

This post is now the ninth on the page... seems a whole bunch of firstposts just get approved. I went back as far as page 1127 looking for them, and here are the four I found:

xan33 wrote:Not sure if this has been said/how insane it is... but the word in 2863 and 2864 when they come in to meet the woman, is the same that is used in 2882 where they are leaving. So I guess it's equivalent to the word salut in French, where it means hello and goodbye and apparently Madagascar is a former French colony and French is widely spoken there by the looks of it.

In 2708 when he's learning to say drink/water they repeats the word back to him with a second line above the 's' like character at the end of the word which could suggest that he was stressing a vowel sound by elongating it, to get him to pronounce it correctly? And it could either mean drink or water, which in french is boire or eau. If vowels are the lines added above characters and it is a substitution code then it makes sense that it'd be boire as it's closer in length.

On this assumption I went back a bit and tried to find some letters I could replace in some short words to find some simple French words. I found in panel 2668 they use a word the starts with both the start of 'salut' and boire', but I doubt he said bs. However if the words are also backwards... then it would be 'te' which can mean 'you' and would be a reasonable way for him to start the sentence. Plausible? Already mentioned?


Echousb wrote:I guess 3M in beanish is pronounced "Oh" !


wertle wrote:Add my name to the de lurkers showing up, never even had an account until now, this is just too glorious, and you all are awesome!


gga2 wrote:Hi! Lurking since they met the beans. I sharpened the image, and a few letters came out more clear. I'm getting: You do not know. I M_____GUISSE fitting pretty well. That is 5 blanks in there, although it seems likely there is at least one space. The GU seemed pretty clear, but that only leaves a narrow space afterwards, hence the I. Not sure what kind of word that would be. Does someone have a good Scrabble dictionary?

Preliminary as a cross word fits the darker lines very well. Is there a synonymn that fits a word that looks/sounds like ...guisse?


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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Moose Anus » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:03 pm UTC

anabatica wrote:
b2bomberkrh wrote:Essentially, the circular arcs of the setting stars allows pinpointing of the location of the North Star (the North celestial pole) and how far above the horizon it is determines latitude. I think a method was actually used based on the celestial equator, but it's the same idea.


Something that occurred to me after the night passed so I didn't bring it up, is that wouldn't the straightness of the lines be influenced by whichever projection Randall used?

He probably used Mercator. d:
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Earthling on Mars » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:04 pm UTC

Also, ONG:

Image

Quite the speech there, Rosetta.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:04 pm UTC

In time even the hills g..nge.
When people first ... and first
built ....ites the seas were joined
but there was a great ..........
... and the passage was s...ed.
Your sea .......... with too few rivers
under the sun ... shrank and the water fell.
Now the sea has found a way back in.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Fictioneer » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:04 pm UTC

b2bomberkrh wrote:Oh my gosh, TONS of text, this is gonna take a couple of minutes.


I think Randall is trying to make our heads (or our eyes) explode.

ETA: Well, apparently not mscha's head.
Last edited by Fictioneer on Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:05 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby anabatica » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:05 pm UTC

In time even the hills change.
When people first walked and first built cities the seas were joined but there was a great SOMETHING and the passage was closed.
Your sea SOMETHING with too few rivers.
Under the sun it shrank and the water fell.
The sea has found a way back in.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:06 pm UTC

Certainly could be that Mediterranean thing. Who knows what happens in the next 11,000 years.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby b2bomberkrh » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:06 pm UTC

anabatica wrote:In time even the hills change.
When people first walked and first built cities the seas were joined but there was a great SOMETHING and the passage was closed.
Your sea SOMETHING with too few rivers.
Under the sun it shrank and the water fell.
The sea has found a way back in.


I agree with all of this, except I think there's another SOMETHING before cities, and I'm not sure about "walked"

Oh and it should be NOW the sea has found a way back in.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby b2bomberkrh » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:09 pm UTC

The seas were "joined". By people? Could this be the Panama or Suez canal? I know the lat isn't right for Panama, but what about the Suez?

ETA: 30.7050° N

Joined could also mean "already joined", so it's just speculation on my part.
Last edited by b2bomberkrh on Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:10 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Gedeon » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:10 pm UTC

My analysis thus far:

IN TIME EVEN THE HILLS CHANGE.
WHEN PEOPLE FIRST ?KED AND FIRST
BUILT *** CITIES THE SEAS WERE JOINED
BUT THERE WAS A GREAT ***
ROCK *** AND THE PASSAGE WAS CLOSED (forbidden).
YOUR SEA WAS *** WITH TOO FEW RIVERS.
UNDER THE SUN SHRANK AND THE WATER FELL.
NOW THE SEA HAS FOUND A WAY BACK IN.

EDIT: Thanks anabatica, it's likely WALKED.
Last edited by Gedeon on Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:12 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby anabatica » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:10 pm UTC

b2bomberkrh wrote:I agree with all of this, except I think there's another SOMETHING before cities, and I'm not sure about "walked"

Oh and it should be NOW the sea has found a way back in.


Filling in with some guesswork...

In time even the hills change.
When people first walked and first built their cities the seas were joined but there was a great movement of rock and the passage was closed.
Your sea was left with too few rivers.
Under the sun it shrank and the water fell.
Now the sea has found a way back in.
Last edited by anabatica on Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:11 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby b2bomberkrh » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:11 pm UTC

Gedeon wrote:My analysis thus far:

IN TIME EVEN THE HILLS CHANGE.
WHEN PEOPLE FIRST ?KED AND FIRST
BUILT *** CITIES THE SEAS WERE JOINED
BUT THERE WAS A GREAT ***
ROCK *** AND THE PASSAGE WAS CLOSED (forbidden).
YOUR SEA WAS *** WITH TOO FEW RIVERS.
UNDER THE SUN SHRANK AND THE WATER FELL.
NOW THE SEA HAS FOUND A WAY BACK IN.


Good catch on rock, I would speculate a great earthquake and rockslide.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Ashaman » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:12 pm UTC

The water level of the Caspian sea is determined entirely by the water coming from several rivers. Those rivers are currently having issues, look at what's happened to the Aral Sea nearby. This latest speech still sounds like the Caspian or the Black Seas, to me.

The rock passage that closed might be the Bosphoros, which separates the Black sea from the Med.
Last edited by Ashaman on Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:13 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby sford » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:13 pm UTC

Rosetta: The sea has found a way back in.
Megen: found a way?
Rosetta: Well ... maybe we ... sort of ... helped it.

Seriously, I wonder if the great thing that disconnected them was an earthquake. (Ninja'ed)

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby anabatica » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:13 pm UTC

Interestingly, the final period is a period and not a Beanie -

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Febrion » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:14 pm UTC

sford wrote:Rosetta: The sea has found a way back in.
Megen: found a way?
Rosetta: Well ... maybe we ... sort of ... helped it.

Seriously, I wonder if the great thing that disconnected them was an earthquake. (Ninja'ed)


Maybe it knows what it's doing?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:15 pm UTC

Gedeon wrote:WHEN PEOPLE FIRST ?KED AND FIRST
EDIT: Thanks anabatica, it's likely WALKED.

Hmmm. The first thing that I thought of was a bit R rated, actually. Naaahhh. Couldn't be. :twisted:
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby KeonSkyfire » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:16 pm UTC

There's a fuzzy little thingy right below the step, maybe 2 Qs to the left if he lay down.

It wasn't there last frame. Does that make it a molpy?

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby speising » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:17 pm UTC

i'm wondering how beanish and english interpunction differ in spoken text...
Also, how farrah can speak multiple words at the same time, and even erase/scratch out some!

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Gedeon » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:19 pm UTC

I think i found something interesting!

In the first sentence, over the word "hills" there is written "rock".

This kind of proves our theory that hill is intesifier+rock in beanish! :)


Also, alternative to "with too few rivers" is "barred".

I can't figure out what is written under "cities". It looks like "isiles" or something...
Last edited by Gedeon on Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:20 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:19 pm UTC

KeonSkyfire wrote:There's a fuzzy little thingy right below the step, maybe 2 Qs to the left if he lay down.

It wasn't there last frame. Does that make it a molpy?

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Mikeski » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:20 pm UTC

For those trying to pin this to a particular time/place in the past on Earth (7000 BCE Med. Sea or whatever)...

The stars in the sky are in constellations as seen from Earth.

We have baobab trees of a species that probably only exists on Madagascar, which doesn't have a lot of nearly-landlocked seas to fill up.

We have a nearly-landlocked sea filling up.

We have a tribe of 40 people who only know of another tribe of "hill people" who "don't like them".

Within a short walking distance of said tribe & trees, we have a full European-style castle, of a sort that didn't get built until well into the Common Era.

The people of said castle don't know the sea-tribe language, apart from one "sage".

Said sea tribe builds sandcastles, without having seen one in real life (thus just from seeing other sandcastles, or possibly picturebooks? or TV/movies?). They build full-scale and miniature trebuchets. As toys. But they don't understand basic geophysics or meteorology.

...I think there's not a lot of places/times on earth much like this world.
Last edited by Mikeski on Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:24 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:21 pm UTC

KeonSkyfire wrote:There's a fuzzy little thingy right below the step, maybe 2 Qs to the left if he lay down.

It wasn't there last frame. Does that make it a molpy?

Good catch...
But I don't think so, it's too faint for a molpy. Probably just one of Rosetta's “ink blotches” – it's the right shade for that.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Rule110 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:22 pm UTC

anabatica wrote:In time even the hills change.
When people first walked and first built cities the seas were joined but there was a great SOMETHING and the passage was closed.
Your sea SOMETHING with too few rivers.
Under the sun it shrank and the water fell.
The sea has found a way back in.


Some extras:
"ROAD" crosses "PASSAGE"
"ROCKS" crosses "HILLS"
"NOW" is in large pale letters before "THE SEA HAS FOUND..."
"_RB_PE_" crosses the end of "CLOSED"
"MUD" in large letters appears superimposed with the first word of the fourth line (part of the great SOMETHING).
"_ISHES" or "_ISLES" crosses "CITIES" at a diagonal -- EDIT: Yeah, I agree it's CASTLES
Last edited by Rule110 on Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:42 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby HES » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:23 pm UTC

mscha wrote:Certainly could be that Mediterranean thing. Who knows what happens in the next 11,000 years.


yeah, especially if the Netherlands start expanding :wink:
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:25 pm UTC

HES wrote:
mscha wrote:Certainly could be that Mediterranean thing. Who knows what happens in the next 11,000 years.

yeah, especially if the Netherlands start expanding :wink:

Ja, je kan maar beter Nederlands gaan leren. Image
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SBN » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:26 pm UTC

KeonSkyfire wrote:There's a fuzzy little thingy right below the step, maybe 2 Qs to the left if he lay down.

It wasn't there last frame. Does that make it a molpy?


I'm going to throw your firstpost forward:
KeonSkyfire wrote:(So, first post, and semi-blindpost (Only read the past 5 or so pages...))

Has there been any speculation to what Rosetta's status is? She lives in a castle so it's sensible to assume she is at the least a noble or relative of one. This would suggest Beanies are a feudal society, or that they are under some sort of threat, so that they could require a castle at some point. (Or they just enjoy building sand castles but they have better construction techniques.)

Basically, it seems like Rosetta can command the other Beanies, and she lives in a castle, I'm going to guess she's some kind of vassal to a larger Beanie Monarch.


I know there's a second post too, since this is your third, but welcome, and good spotting. Not sure if it's dust, or a large molperpillar.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:27 pm UTC

mscha wrote:
HES wrote:
mscha wrote:Certainly could be that Mediterranean thing. Who knows what happens in the next 11,000 years.

yeah, especially if the Netherlands start expanding :wink:

Ja, je kan maar beter Nederlands gaan leren. Image

Sorry mscha, but I read it as neanderthals. :evil:
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Ashaman » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:27 pm UTC

Mikeski wrote:For those trying to pin this to a particular time/place in the past on Earth (7000 BCE Med. Sea or whatever)...

...I think there's not a lot of places/times on earth much like this world.


I think you're right, we can't be very far in the past, the trebuchet and castle technology aren't more than 1000 years old. But the flooding of the Black Sea 7k years ago indicates that the geology is plausible for a flooding. If we're really 10k years in the future, it's a process that could repeat. The Bosphoros closes and isolates the Black Sea from the Med, maybe due to an earthquake. We then apply a few thousand years of dry climate and the water level drops significantly. Then either the Bosphoros re-opens with another earthquake, or global sea level rise means the Med starts overflowing the rock barrier and comes back in. We could extend that to the Caspian sea to an extent, it could dry up and be re-flooded when the Black Sea starts to refill, but only assuming a global sea level rise sufficient to connect the two together (20m might be enough).

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby b2bomberkrh » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:29 pm UTC

I think it's CASTLES crossing cities.

ETA: Also, something crosses "few rivers"...P/BARR..
Last edited by b2bomberkrh on Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:32 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:30 pm UTC

I think the diagnonal word behind "cities" is...

castles.

(searching for the right word again?)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby anabatica » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:31 pm UTC

Ashaman wrote:
Mikeski wrote:For those trying to pin this to a particular time/place in the past on Earth (7000 BCE Med. Sea or whatever)...

...I think there's not a lot of places/times on earth much like this world.


I think you're right, we can't be very far in the past, the trebuchet and castle technology aren't more than 1000 years old. But the flooding of the Black Sea 7k years ago indicates that the geology is plausible for a flooding. If we're really 10k years in the future, it's a process that could repeat. The Bosphoros closes and isolates the Black Sea from the Med, maybe due to an earthquake. We then apply a few thousand years of dry climate and the water level drops significantly. Then either the Bosphoros re-opens with another earthquake, or global sea level rise means the Med starts overflowing the rock barrier and comes back in. We could extend that to the Caspian sea to an extent, it could dry up and be re-flooded when the Black Sea starts to refill, but only assuming a global sea level rise sufficient to connect the two together (20m might be enough).

Yea, I still see the future as a real possibility. Randall made up a new language for the Beanies because being 11000 years in the future, current languages wouldn't be recognisable. That suggests to me that if this wasn't set on Earth 11000 years in the future, he would have also made up a new star map. He didn't, so...

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Cecil » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:33 pm UTC

oops
More xkcd than your mom.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Ashaman » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:36 pm UTC

anabatica wrote:Yea, I still see the future as a real possibility. Randall made up a new language for the Beanies because being 11000 years in the future, current languages wouldn't be recognisable. That suggests to me that if this wasn't set on Earth 11000 years in the future, he would have also made up a new star map. He didn't, so...


Well, the constellations were recognizable to me, but not quite right. If we were on another planet outside this solar system, most constellations would be horribly distorted and unrecognizable. But they were close to right, and star charts that correct for current measurements of proper motion seems to fit well for a 10k+ year future. I need to go back to those start charts and look more closely, since I have some of my own to work with, but the initial analysis seemed good.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SBN » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:36 pm UTC

Cecil wrote:oops

Accidental de-lurk?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Gedeon » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:38 pm UTC

Thanks, Rule110!

Everything collected:

IN TIME EVEN THE HILLS (rocks) CHANGE.
WHEN PEOPLE FIRST WALKED AND FIRST
BUILT *** CITIES (castles) THE SEAS WERE JOINED (welded)
BUT THERE WAS A GREAT ***
(mud) ROCK*** AND THE PASSAGE (road) WAS CLOSED (forbidden).
YOUR SEA WAS *** WITH TOO FEW RIVERS (barred).
UNDER THE SUN SHRANK AND THE WATER FELL.
NOW THE SEA HAS FOUND A WAY BACK IN.

Also, possibly (united) beneath "found a way back in".
Last edited by Gedeon on Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:44 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.


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