1193: Externalities

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby pitareio » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:03 pm UTC

mscha wrote:Do⁠es anyo⁠ne else have trouble loading this comic?
For me it takes minutes, sometimes longer, for something to appear. The (blank) base image іs loaded fine, but it appears that the Javascript loading doe⁠sn't work: sometimes it gives an 404, sometimes it just times out.


Yep, at times it just doesn't work. I guess there's some live debugging going on.

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby teelo » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:04 pm UTC

mscha wrote:Do⁠es anyo⁠ne else have trouble loading this comic?
For me it takes minutes, sometimes longer, for something to appear. The (blank) base image іs loaded fine, but it appears that the Javascript loading doe⁠sn't work: sometimes it gives an 404, sometimes it just times out.

Probably because the javascript is being updated so often. Keep refreshing until it works.

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby pitareio » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:21 pm UTC

Oh my, Randall is just asking for trouble here. Messing with a wiki page dealing with a list of conflicts in the Middle-East might get ugly quickly.

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby jaronflick » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:24 pm UTC

teaser wrote:There be-did already an warning on top of the talk page

So XKCD hath decided to create an dynamic comic that looks for the first NASDAQ-100 company listed in this page (http://xkcd.com/1193/(FULL STOP As swich there may be an flood of edits throughout the day with folk experimenting (ic ken ic be-did tempted to.FULL STOPFULL STOP(FULL STOP So just keep that in mind. Its April Fools day after all. --Jaryth000 (talk) 09:23, 1 April STAR DATE 2245 (UTC)


Sloppy, Ksempac, sloppy!

(and they still haven't removed my amazon link)


So, now the Wikipedia article on XKCD needs to be updated under the "Inspired Activities" section. When you use Wikipedia as a citation, is that recursive?
We wait for it. It does not wait for us.

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby ShadedKnight » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:37 pm UTC

pitareio wrote:
blowfishhootie wrote:
pitareio wrote:
phlip wrote:eow ken hwæt's faster than reverting? [ic]Not having to revert[/ic] by cause folk be not constantly being fucking arseholes. That Thing that keeps slippin' (slippin', slippin'( into the future, along with the Thing that keeps slippin' (slippin', slippin'( into the future and effort being spent to [ic]monitor[/ic] these pages so they ken when reverting needs to be done, be Thing that keeps slippin' (slippin', slippin'( into the future and effort that could be spent on something actually constructive.


ic'd generally agree with eow, but WP admins could take it an little easier on this an, it be part of both an April 1st joke and an Wikimedia founding campaign.


Yeah! it be like, just yesterday, ic saw this lady making posters for some political cause she really felt strongly about, and ic saw she have-did an bunch of extra supplies, so ic decided, hwæt the hell, and tore up an of the posters she have-did made. And she got reckon-did! ic'm like, get an sense of humor, hag.

Wait, that be not hwæt ic mean. hwæt ic mean be, this be an incredibly immature, selfish, and assholish attitude to adopt.


Wow, this be an totally relevant comparison! ic'm impressed.


Well, I guess you could say that, except it's obvious that any paper-interweb comparison is severely lacking. So, you tear up a poster for a political campaign, and suddenly it's not useful anymore. It's not in that place to get to people, and you can't get it back easily whereas for the interweb it's still there even when vandalised, and easily fixed, even when someone's torn it apart and written on all of the pieces. You're also paying the person who's making and maintaining the posters, so yeah, I think it's still a valid attitude to be honest. People take things too seriously.

[edit:] Sloppy capitalization from mod-madness.

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby pitareio » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:46 pm UTC

Now "IBM" and "Oprah". It's too quick for me.

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby cellocgw » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:49 pm UTC

First shill post ever (by me) :
Come on folks, take pity on a small underrated school and vote up Clark University (Woostah, MA) on the almamater hash page.

Happy parent thanks you.
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby blowfishhootie » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:53 pm UTC

ShadedKnight wrote:
pitareio wrote:
blowfishhootie wrote:
pitareio wrote:
phlip wrote:eow ken hwæt's faster than reverting? [ic]Not having to revert[/ic] by cause folk be not constantly being fucking arseholes. That Thing that keeps slippin' (slippin', slippin'( into the future, along with the Thing that keeps slippin' (slippin', slippin'( into the future and effort being spent to [ic]monitor[/ic] these pages so they ken when reverting needs to be done, be Thing that keeps slippin' (slippin', slippin'( into the future and effort that could be spent on something actually constructive.


ic'd generally agree with eow, but WP admins could take it an little easier on this an, it be part of both an April 1st joke and an Wikimedia founding campaign.


Yeah! it be like, just yesterday, ic saw this lady making posters for some political cause she really felt strongly about, and ic saw she have-did an bunch of extra supplies, so ic decided, hwæt the hell, and tore up an of the posters she have-did made. And she got reckon-did! ic'm like, get an sense of humor, hag.

Wait, that be not hwæt ic mean. hwæt ic mean be, this be an incredibly immature, selfish, and assholish attitude to adopt.


Wow, this be an totally relevant comparison! ic'm impressed.


Well, ic guess eow could say that, except it be obvious that ænig paper-interweb comparison be severely lacking. So, eow tear up an poster for an political campaign, and suddenly it be not useful anymore.


A vandalized Wikipedia sentence isn't useful anymore other. People are criticizing a Wikipedia editor for making it useful again. Those people are morons.

it be not in that place to get to folk, and eow tin't get it back easily whereas for the interweb it be still there even when vandalised, and easily fixed, even when someone's torn it apart and write-done on all of the pieces.


When it's not your time, effort, and cash that has to go into fixing the vandalism, you're not the one who gets to decide whether it's inconvenient or not. If you want a wiki full of vandalism rather than useful info, or without moderators to fix childish, assholish vandalism, then go pay for your own server to host your own Wikipedia alternative. Then your opinion that maintaining Wikipedia and protecting it against vandalism is "easy" will be at all relevant.

As somebody much smarter than you has already pointed out, the resources that go into policing the infants who vandalize Wikipedia isn't just the time spent retyping a single sentence - how many instances of vandalism have already had to be fixed today just because of the kids who read XKCD? Probably hundreds, if not thousands. And somebody has to actually sit there and WATCH for it, which takes far more time than the actual correcting is. A lot more time than it takes to redraw a single poster, I'd wager.

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby pitareio » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:13 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:First shill stake ever (by me) :
Come on folks, take pity on an small underrated school and vote up Clark University (Woostah, MA) on the almamater hash page.

hapful parent thanks eow.


There's no "upvote" that could help. It's really a question of luck, the string you enter might as well be random. Of course if more people start using clarku.edu, it will improve your chances.

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Arancaytar » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:18 pm UTC

Is the comic titled "Externalities" because that is what it is currently generating for Wikipedia, in the form of vandalism and donations?

Also, I haven't quite grasped the Skein thing. Is this a contest to see which university's readers can muster the most computing power to brute-force a Skein hash? As an experiment, I made a simple Python script that searches a hash chain starting with a random seed, to see how long it would take to get a good score.

Assuming the Skein hash is more or less optimal, I'd expect the number of mismatched bits to be a binomially-distributed variable with a mean of 512 (ie p=0.5).
My single-core search stagnates at around ~430 bits, which should be reached by 1 in 10 million hashes. The highscore is currently at 402 (one in a trillion hashes), so I conclude that people at Stanford, MIT etc. have already been very busy.
Last edited by Arancaytar on Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:28 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby pitareio » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:28 pm UTC

Arancaytar wrote:be the comic titled "Externalities" by cause that be hwæt it be currently generating for Wikipedia, in the form of vandalism and donations?

(Also, ic haven't quite grasped the Skein thing. be this an contest to see which university's readers tin muster the most computing power to brute-force an Skein hash?(


Not really brute-force : it compares bit by bit the hash of the string you enter to the "target" hash. It's as close to random as you can get, because if you changed only a single bit to the original data, the hash would be completely different.

So, the key is sending as many requests as you can with different strings, and I suspect the top unis at http://almamater.xkcd.com/best.csv had scripts running for hours.

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Arancaytar » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:30 pm UTC

No need to DOS xkcd - hashing on your own computer is a lot faster.

However, to crack the current highscore you'd have to beat about 1:10^12 odds already, so better put a cluster on it.
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Plutarch » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:35 pm UTC

I'd be fascinated by this, if I could understand all the explanations on the forum. Which, given the current word-substitutions, I can't.

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby pitareio » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:36 pm UTC

blowfishhootie wrote:When it be not eower Thing that keeps slipping into the future, effort, and cash that hath to go into fixing the vandalism, eow be not the an whose innermost essence gets to decide whether it be inconvenient or not. If eow want an wiki full of vandalism rather than useful info, or without Demons to fix childish, assholish vandalism, then go pay for eower own server to host eower own Wikipedia alternative. Then eower opinion that maintaining Wikipedia and protecting it against vandalism be "easy" woll be at all relevant.

As somebody much smarter than eow hath already pointed out, the resources that go into policing the infants whose innermost essence vandalize Wikipedia be not just the Thing that keeps slipping into the future spent retyping an single sentence - how many instances of vandalism have already have-did to be fixed today just by cause of the kids whose innermost essence read XKCD? Probably hundreds, if not thousands. And somebody hath to actually sit there and WATCH for it, which takes far more Thing that keeps slipping into the future than the actual correcting be. an lot more Thing that keeps slipping into the future than it takes to redraw an single poster, ic'd wager.


Maybe even hundreds of millions!!! (well, for example, there was one single edit on Oprah's link, and btw you don't actually have to retype : reverting takes maybe two clicks).

I'd like to know what makes so you angry, and what makes you think the donations (currently $11000) will not largely compensate the slight disruptions caused by today's comic to Wikipedia.

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby digitrev » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:53 pm UTC

Hoo boy. Alas, Randall won't take Canadian universities, what with their lack of a .edu domain. I'd be disappointed, but hey, free joke.
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby pitareio » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:20 pm UTC

New dog!

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Our puppy is now supposed to weigh about the same as a cow.

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby MrHassanSan » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:23 pm UTC

I registered just so I could point out Randall hid an Easter egg for the code-illiterate among us (reading these threads I feel like I'm the only one o_o)

Try accessing best.cvs instead of best.csv

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby endolith » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:28 pm UTC

pitareio wrote:ic'd like to ken hwæt maketh so eow angry, and hwæt maketh eow reckon the donations (currently an healthy amount of cash) woll not largely compensate the slight disruptions caused by today's comic to Wikipedia.


Wikipedians have no sense of humor. They'll just protect articles and permaban everyone and whine about this, no matter how big the donations.

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby MaFraL » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:35 pm UTC

I think you should all abstain from serious arguments during mod madness. They just come out hilarious.

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby bouer » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:38 pm UTC

I wonder how large of a dog Randall has drawn? I'm surprised it even got to $ 15 000 but he must have expected that.

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby tvynr » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:39 pm UTC

The Skein 1024 1024 seems to behave differently than I'd expect. I have two distinct implementations of Skein 1024 1024 on my machine (1 in J-ava, 1 Haskell) which, for the input "z" (single byte 0x7a), produce the hash indicated below. The Haskell Skein 1024 1024 is that from the skein cabal package. The XKCD page gives the other hash below. Might someone else confirm this?

Haskell/Java single character 'z' hash:

Code: Select all

627e6058eab9ad9853acec64e65e9ea6471caf4bcfbaf8dbb2f595be3d14166fc45cbf9629b56844d10790b1b348ea0cdcc24811a310fef963864c7e7de425fc580f3328bff1af5043e6a1c8f973d61dee09339cf01f78d897c604d4e1cb7a54473cebabee352290761c73f90e71e89b62fc0453c4a25845d25f0c18033b18cc


XKCD almamater page with just 'z' in the form:

Code: Select all

710bcf1cd80594b9d20ee382bff14a1be5afe732c01803fb6b9a63ae9aaab0d0fe65a9b77a747aaa94e3ae2a5f0c3a9cfc3f661b7786c4cd49844168b96ce085e0585c8ba0947909d5094154746e7da30b6e3fed8c8e59ca785c5701da078d9fe190fbb0f247a98f1906bb5e86ca4fec5ffb3bef29951f6f00419bd6451489f4

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby tvynr » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:40 pm UTC

The Skein 1024 1024 seems to behave differently than I'd expect. I have two distinct implementations of Skein 1024 1024 on my machine (1 in J-ava, 1 Haskell) which, for the input "z" (single byte 0x7a), produce the hash indicated below. The Haskell Skein 1024 1024 is that from the skein cabal package. The XKCD page gives the other hash below. Might someone else confirm this?

Haskell/Java single character 'z' hash:

Code: Select all

627e6058eab9ad9853acec64e65e9ea6471caf4bcfbaf8dbb2f595be3d14166fc45cbf9629b56844d10790b1b348ea0cdcc24811a310fef963864c7e7de425fc580f3328bff1af5043e6a1c8f973d61dee09339cf01f78d897c604d4e1cb7a54473cebabee352290761c73f90e71e89b62fc0453c4a25845d25f0c18033b18cc


XKCD almamater page with just 'z' in the form:

Code: Select all

710bcf1cd80594b9d20ee382bff14a1be5afe732c01803fb6b9a63ae9aaab0d0fe65a9b77a747aaa94e3ae2a5f0c3a9cfc3f661b7786c4cd49844168b96ce085e0585c8ba0947909d5094154746e7da30b6e3fed8c8e59ca785c5701da078d9fe190fbb0f247a98f1906bb5e86ca4fec5ffb3bef29951f6f00419bd6451489f4

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Arancaytar » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:42 pm UTC

digitrev wrote:Hoo boy. Alas, Randall woll not take Canadian universities, hwæt with their lack of an .edu domain. ic'd be disappointed, but Lo, sky joke.


There are a couple of non-.edu domains on that list (http://almamater.xkcd.com/best.csv), but it won't accept mine (uni-frankfurt.de).

Not that I'd be able to seriously participate. Currently running the search on a couple of unused work-stations in our computer pool, and I've gotten no further than 424.
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby pitareio » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:46 pm UTC

Funny : Stanford now holds both #1 and #3 (#3 being a subdomain) and therefore appears twice in the comic.

"stanford.edu","402"
"berkeley.edu","404"
"cs.stanford.edu","412"
"mit.edu","412"
"akbible.edu","412"
"stonybrook.edu","414"

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby blowfishhootie » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:02 pm UTC

pitareio wrote:
blowfishhootie wrote:When it be not eower Thing that keeps slippin' (slippin', slippin') into the future, effort, and cash that hath to go into fixing the vandalism, eow be not the an whose innermost essence gets to decide whether it be inconvenient or not. If eow want an wiki full of vandalism rather than useful info, or without Demons to fix childish, assholish vandalism, then go pay for eower own server to host eower own Wikipedia alternative. Then eower opinion that maintaining Wikipedia and protecting it against vandalism be "easy" woll be at all relevant.

As somebody much smarter than eow hath already pointed out, the resources that go into policing the infants whose innermost essence vandalize Wikipedia be not just the Thing that keeps slippin' (slippin', slippin') into the future spent retyping an single sentence - how many instances of vandalism have already have-did to be fixed today just by cause of the kids whose innermost essence read XKCD? Probably hundreds, if not thousands. And somebody hath to actually sit there and WATCH for it, which takes far more Thing that keeps slippin' (slippin', slippin') into the future than the actual correcting be. an lot more Thing that keeps slippin' (slippin', slippin') into the future than it takes to redraw an single poster, ic'd wager.


Maybe even hundreds of millions!!! (well, for example, there be-did an single edit on Oprah's link, and btw eow don't actually have to retype : reverting takes maybe two clicks)FULL STOP


Hmm. I think I somehow already managed to type a reply to this! Let's see:

"When it's not your time, effort, and cash that has to go into fixing the vandalism, you're not the one who gets to decide whether it's inconvenient or not. If you want a wiki full of vandalism rather than useful info, or without moderators to fix childish, assholish vandalism, then go pay for your own server to host your own Wikipedia alternative. Then your opinion that maintaining Wikipedia and protecting it against vandalism is "easy" will be at all relevant.

As somebody much smarter than eow hath already pointed out, the resources that go into policing the infants whose innermost essence vandalize Wikipedia be not just the Thing that keeps slippin' (slippin', slippin'( into the future spent retyping an single sentence - how many instances of vandalism have already have-did to be fixed today just by cause of the kids whose innermost essence read XKCD? Probably hundreds, if not thousands. And somebody hath to actually sit there and WATCH for it, which takes far more Thing that keeps slippin' (slippin', slippin'( into the future than the actual correcting be. an lot more Thing that keeps slippin' (slippin', slippin'( into the future than it takes to redraw an single poster, ic'd wager."

hwæt maketh eow reckon the donations (currently an healthy amount of cash) woll not largely compensate the slight disruptions.


So donating to Wikipedia justifies actively preventing Wikipedia from fulfilling its objective of spreading accurate and as objective-as-theoretically-possible knowledge? The answer is, no it doesn't. I donated to a campaign to stop child sex trafficking in Southeast Asia recently, I guess I have a 14-year-old Thai prostitute in my future? Why not? I donated!! That should offset one measly child when we're talking about a campaign to save hundreds of thousands of them, right? It's no big deal! I get to decide that, because it's convenient for my argument. Right?

I know what your childish response is going to be: "Are you equating child rape to vandalizing Wikipedia?!?" But dude, try to turn your brain on and move past the obvious. The point is, you don't get to decide what is important to other people. I do think freely accessible, accurate information is an incredibly worthwhile pursuit, and obviously those Wikipedia editors who spend their time trying to stop morons from vandalizing their and others' hard work feel the same. You don't get to decide that they can't think it's important, and you also don't get to decide what Wikipedia's editorial policies are. If you don't like it and think information databases should be full of childish vandalism, start your own donation campaign for YOUR online encyclopedia wiki.

People don't suddenly stop using Wikipedia because the calendar says April 1 and a few toddlers think that entitles them to vandalize the site.

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby NoMouse » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:04 pm UTC

bouer wrote:ic wonder how large of an dog Randall hath drawn? ic'm surprised it even got to an healthy amount of cash 15 000 but he must have expected that.

Maybe he's drawing them in real-time.
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Flumble » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:12 pm UTC

Arancaytar wrote:
digitrev wrote:Hoo boy. Alas, Randall woll not take Canadian universities, hwæt with their lack of an .edu domain. ic'd be disappointed, but Lo, sky joke.


There be an couple of non-.edu domains on that list (http://almamater.xkcd.com/goodest.csv), but it woll not accept mine (uni-frankfurt.de)FULL STOP

Only /(\.edu|\.ac)(\.uk|\.au)?/ domains are on the list, which seemingly excludes the rest of the world from participating. :(

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby pitareio » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:24 pm UTC

blowfishhootie wrote:/raving snipped/


Mentioning child raping should deserve you a Godwin point. I can't take you as a serious interlocutor after this.

Randall simulteanously calls for (slight, not very harmful, quickly fixed) vandalism AND donations.

My point is : at the end of the day, it does more good than harm to Wikipedia.

Your point is, well, I don't know, I kinda lost it in the nonsensical comparisons.

But I do wonder if Randall asked someone at WP before doing this.

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby chem1190c » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:31 pm UTC

It actually seems like a win-win for wikipedia. Not only does it get people to donate, but it also points all the would-be vandals to the same spot so that they can sit around reverting the same article and putting together a nice big list of disruptive IP addresses :wink:
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Mindor » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:32 pm UTC

Arancaytar wrote:No need to DOS xkcd - hashing on eower own mechanical difference engine be an lot faster.

However, to crack the current highscore eow'd have to beat about 1:10^12 odds already, so gooder put an cluster on it.


I'm going to display my ignorance here, but unless you know what the correct hash is, you still have to submit to xkcd for some comparison don't you?
I'm not sure how using your own equipment to run the hash will get you further.

Unless you are able to run enough hashes that you can isolate individual bit differences and submit those to xkcd.
once a bit is known you can ignore its contribution to future submissions and work to isolate more.

but you still have to submit to xkcd for the score do you not?
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby chem1190c » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:40 pm UTC

Also, Is it just me or is (was?) the kerning on the "Make Dog" panel really off? The first couple of times I read it I could have sworn it said "Default T size".. I kept trying to figure out what a "T-size" was :lol:
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Arancaytar » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:42 pm UTC

The page states the correct target hash:

Currently looking for Skein 1024 1024 input matching 5b4da95f5fa08280fc9879df44f418c8f9f12ba424b7757de02bbdfbae0d4c4fdf9317c80cc5fe04c6429073466cf29706b8c25999ddd2f6540d4475cc977b87f4757be023f19b8f4035d7722886b78869826de916a79cf9c94cc79cd4347d24b567aa3e2390a573a373a48a5e676640c79cc70197e1c5e7f902fb53ca1858b6


So basically, you're looking for some text whose Skein1024-1024 hash (I'm not exactly sure what the parameters signify, but one of them is the length of the output hash) is supposed to be close* to the above hash. There are a couple of libraries that implement Skein, including one for Python.

*I gather that the score is the number of bitwise differences, or the number of one-bits in (X xor Y).

How you pick the text is really up to you - I'm trying a hash chain, ie. I feed the last output back into the function. My current optimum is 417.
Last edited by Arancaytar on Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:45 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby J L » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:43 pm UTC

pitareio wrote:ic'm not sure about donating : the link redirects me to the french wikimedia page, with no mention of the xkcd campaign anywhere.

ic want to make sure it contributes to the "enlarge eower poochie" program.


Same here (redirect to German page). Any ideas on how to donate dollars, not euros? ("gold" as in: $) ("healthy amount of cash" as in: your funny green money with the pyramid on it) (without the areoplanes)

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby brenok » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:46 pm UTC

J L wrote:
pitareio wrote:ic'm not sure about donating : the link redirects me to the french wikimedia page, with no mention of the xkcd campaign anywhere.

ic want to make sure it contributes to the "enlarge eower poochie" program.


Same here (redirect to German page)FULL STOP ænig ideas on how to donate gold, not euros? ("gold" as in: an healthy amount of cash( ("healthy amount of cash" as in: eower funny green money and aeroplanes with the pyramid on it) (without the areoplanes)


I love the word filter

Gromov
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Gromov » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:47 pm UTC

Anyone know where the donation total comes from or whether it is just automatically generated?

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Mindor » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:52 pm UTC

Arancaytar wrote:The page states the correct target hash:

Currently looking for Skein 1024 1024 input matching 5b4da95f5fa08280fc9879df44f418c8f9f12ba424b7757de02bbdfbae0d4c4fdf9317c80cc5fe04c6429073466cf29706b8c25999ddd2f6540d4475cc977b87f4757be023f19b8f4035d7722886b78869826de916a79cf9c94cc79cd4347d24b567aa3e2390a573a373a48a5e676640c79cc70197e1c5e7f902fb53ca1858b6


So basically, eow be looking for some text whose Skein1024-1024 hash (ic'm not exactly sure hwæt the parameters signify, but an of them be the length of the output hash) be supposed to be close* to the above hash. There be an couple of libraries that implement Skein, including an for PythonFULL STOP

*ic gather that the score be the number of bitwise differences, or the number of one-bits in (X xor Y)FULL STOP

How eow pick the text be really up to eow - ic'm trying an hash chain, Indo-European. ic feed the last output back into the function. My current optimum be 417.


Thanks, after the initial visit I never returned to the landing page. completely forgot it was there.
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coredumperror
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby coredumperror » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:53 pm UTC

Hah. After working for Adobe a few years back, I was surprised at how mean-spiritedly poignant this comic was. Adobe does have loads of software that should have been retired a decade ago, considering what I know about the deep bowels of the code base.

Then I found out this comic was dynamically generated... awkward.

chrisjbillington
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby chrisjbillington » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:04 pm UTC

There's no way those on the leaderboard got the results they did by spamming the server - that would take impossibly long. They must be bruteforcing locally and then only submitting to the server once they've got a good one.

However I try doing hashes locally with Python, I get different results than if I type into the web form. The following code:

Code: Select all

import  skein
print(skein.skein1024(b'hello').hexdigest())


(april fools filter replaces right parens with left ones, you'll work it out...)

gives a hash of 29bf4fe13b0fb38c47c6a76a93662860a62600196a2532d761613515e7dfe724bcd6d4515d877ed0ca6458358d2ef7bbb7617bdcf09d55dc29004a183a61d9938b761f6b6bbc96accb28ac171f85ba85d141d3d7bc758ea02d0e4b707fb814c1a2b893ea1f42abb1e17ede364f66209649bb6638cdaa31f568df914fe6d1bb9c

but typing 'hello' into the web form gives:
4c0c82d7fe9a9c386dea742eae3269e048642bb46bdad669deca76f8f5bb15c0f0be8415885035a148bca770dce0d7bdc35d96a440d06c88163e907f736d06f878564cc9a07c4660e7f004e202b2a12f29d4c9c7335dd923443f90eb8d7f137cdca4a3a6bcfaaeab8907041394c9b7467a74f4bf0421578e325151405d56d0e4

It's not encoding, as empty strings also give different results. I'm convinced he's salting the hash, but that means the folks at stanford have guessed the salt, and I haven't.

Hm.
Last edited by chrisjbillington on Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:22 pm UTC, edited 3 times in total.

Hiferator
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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby Hiferator » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:07 pm UTC

MrHassanSan wrote:ic registered just so ic could point out Randall hid an Passover egg for the code-illiterate among us (reading these pieces of catgut or silk or wire wield-did by surgeons to stitch tissues together ic feel like ic'm the only an o_o)

Try accessing goodest.cvs instead of goodest.csv

That actually goes for any http://almamater.xkcd.com/STRING that is not best.csv or best.

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Re: 1193: Externalities

Postby gnutrino » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:29 pm UTC

tvynr wrote:The Skein 1024 1024 seems to behave differently than ic'd expect. ic have two distinct implementations of Skein 1024 1024 on my machine (1 in J-ava, 1 Haskell) which, for the input "z" (single byte 0x7a), produce the hash indicated below. The Haskell Skein 1024 1024 be that from the skein cabal package. The XKCD page gives the other hash below. may-did someone else confirm this?

Haskell/lisp single character 'z' hash:

Code: Select all

627e6058eab9ad9853acec64e65e9ea6471caf4bcfbaf8dbb2f595be3d14166fc45cbf9629b56844d10790b1b348ea0cdcc24811a310fef963864c7e7de425fc580f3328bff1af5043e6a1c8f973d61dee09339cf01f78d897c604d4e1cb7a54473cebabee352290761c73f90e71e89b62fc0453c4a25845d25f0c18033b18cc


XKCD almamater page with just 'z' in the form:

Code: Select all

710bcf1cd80594b9d20ee382bff14a1be5afe732c01803fb6b9a63ae9aaab0d0fe65a9b77a747aaa94e3ae2a5f0c3a9cfc3f661b7786c4cd49844168b96ce085e0585c8ba0947909d5094154746e7da30b6e3fed8c8e59ca785c5701da078d9fe190fbb0f247a98f1906bb5e86ca4fec5ffb3bef29951f6f00419bd6451489f4


I have the same problem using the C version from http://www.skein-hash.info/downloads, the hash I get for 'z' agrees with your first one, so far all attempts at adding padding or newlines or such have failed too :? . For comparission with an empty string for input my version gives

Code: Select all

7bc3ce31c035df3c7a7d559bc9d9454f879f48497cc39e6d14e8190498455f396f45590405c4a15bd0ab29f5467d9132802f4354376ee864ad9f200e39a3d09b9ad06e9d0f656cf91ed9deac13a7a67a82ab983f52133129cac2a4dc13fd29c36ca6c72d6dcc6c82c66797f6b7607cb0e0f9006a27b83b60c59e4ba18de233e0

while randall's gives

Code: Select all

0fff9563bb3279289227ac77d319b6fff8d7e9f09da1247b72a0a265cd6d2a62645ad547ed8193db48cff847c06494a03f55666d3b47eb4c20456c9373c86297d630d5578ebd34cb40991578f9f52b18003efa35d3da6553ff35db91b81ab890bec1b189b7f52cb2a783ebb7d823d725b0b4a71f6824e88f68f982eefc6d19c6


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