1212: "Interstellar Memes"

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LordHorst
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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby LordHorst » Wed May 15, 2013 8:30 pm UTC

da Doctah wrote:
LordHorst wrote:"Oh... my... Gawwd!" <- I was thinking that this came from the first Resident Evil. Barry says something like this when you discover the dead Forrest on the balcony: Here at 3:14. But the math doesn't work out. Resident Evil was released in 1996. Sigma Draconis is 19 Light Years away. Hm. :(

Also, it can't be Troll 2 either. Because THAT quote would be "Oh my goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood!"


Never let it be said that xkcd isn't educational (actually, I don't think anyone's ever claimed that):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm8paBMbZTA


Ah, thanks for clearing that up.

Never watched Friends, so no wonder I didn't recognize it. :D

rmsgrey
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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby rmsgrey » Wed May 15, 2013 8:49 pm UTC

LordHorst wrote:
da Doctah wrote:
LordHorst wrote:"Oh... my... Gawwd!" <- I was thinking that this came from the first Resident Evil. Barry says something like this when you discover the dead Forrest on the balcony: Here at 3:14. But the math doesn't work out. Resident Evil was released in 1996. Sigma Draconis is 19 Light Years away. Hm. :(

Also, it can't be Troll 2 either. Because THAT quote would be "Oh my goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood!"


Never let it be said that xkcd isn't educational (actually, I don't think anyone's ever claimed that):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm8paBMbZTA


Ah, thanks for clearing that up.

Never watched Friends, so no wonder I didn't recognize it. :D


Firstly, watch the first 4 seasons of Friends. No, actually, watch Frasier. It's a better show from the same period.

Secondly, not having experienced the primary source of a popular meme doesn't make it unsurprising that you don't know it. I've never seen Citizen Kane ("Rosebud"), Gone With The Wind ("Frankly, my dear...") or Casablanca ("Here's looking at you, kid"). Okay, I'll give you Janice - even being familiar with the show, I'm not prepared to say for sure that it's actually a Friends reference - my best guess would be that Randall wanted a Friends reference for 1994 - and "Oh...My...Gawd!!!" is one of very few actual catchphrases from the show (Smelly Cat, and Joey's "How you doin'?" are the other contenders that come to mind)

sotanaht
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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby sotanaht » Wed May 15, 2013 9:30 pm UTC

What would it require to actually translate the signal? Assuming some alien race intercepted earth broadcasts intact, would it even be possible to turn those broadcasts into something watchable without direct knowledge of earth electronic systems or languages?

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby Copper Bezel » Wed May 15, 2013 10:25 pm UTC

It's possible, yeah. Sorting out the broadcast standard would be brute-force trial and error, but I think it could be sorted out with enough time. Once that code was cracked, though, the audio signals are simpler and apparently use a nearby band, and it would just be time consuming (but not particularly messy) to sort out the language given enough material. The video component offers a lot of context that a pure audio signal wouldn't.

I think it's interesting that an analog TV signal uses a very counter-intuitive system for its color content designed to be backward-compatible with black and white televisions. It's amusing to think of aliens being limited to black and white televisions because they haven't figured out the color signal components yet. = )
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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed May 15, 2013 10:41 pm UTC

Nevermind that our color broadcasts, even decoded, are not in true color but a mix of red, green, and blue channels which the human eye can't distinguish from true color. To aliens with completely different optical biology, they would get a completely mistaken image (literally!) of what our world looked like.

Imagine, for comparison, a species which sees colors based on how warm (red) or cool (blue) they are, with medium-warmth colors like green being encoded as a mix of warm and cool light... and then we humans who detect green directly would wonder why all the grass in that species' images was colored purple (red+blue), which to them is indistinguishable from green. Likewise, if aliens receiving our signal can see e.g. yellow directly, then they might wonder from our broadcasts how in the hell our sun appears reddish-green with no yellow in it, when no star should ever be that color. (Because to human eyes, red+green looks identical to yellow, even if there is no actual yellow involved, so we send red+green as a shorthand for "yellow", but that's contingent on the viewer being human to fall for that illusion).
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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby speising » Wed May 15, 2013 10:49 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Nevermind that our color broadcasts, even decoded, are not in true color but a mix of red, green, and blue channels which the human eye can't distinguish from true color. To aliens with completely different optical biology, they would get a completely mistaken image (literally!) of what our world looked like.

Imagine, for comparison, a species which sees colors based on how warm (red) or cool (blue) they are, with medium-warmth colors like green being encoded as a mix of warm and cool light... and then we humans who detect green directly would wonder why all the grass in that species' images was colored purple (red+blue), which to them is indistinguishable from green. Likewise, if aliens receiving our signal can see e.g. yellow directly, then they might wonder from our broadcasts how in the hell our sun appears reddish-green with no yellow in it, when no star should ever be that color. (Because to human eyes, red+green looks identical to yellow, even if there is no actual yellow involved, so we send red+green as a shorthand for "yellow", but that's contingent on the viewer being human to fall for that illusion).


actually, they wouldn't know that a particular mix of signals means red+green. they would have to figure out the correct colour interpretation anyway (how? any items coloured equally everywhere?) so the'd say "oh, this mix of signals obviously means yellow" and display it accordingly.

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby rmsgrey » Wed May 15, 2013 10:55 pm UTC

speising wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:Nevermind that our color broadcasts, even decoded, are not in true color but a mix of red, green, and blue channels which the human eye can't distinguish from true color. To aliens with completely different optical biology, they would get a completely mistaken image (literally!) of what our world looked like.

Imagine, for comparison, a species which sees colors based on how warm (red) or cool (blue) they are, with medium-warmth colors like green being encoded as a mix of warm and cool light... and then we humans who detect green directly would wonder why all the grass in that species' images was colored purple (red+blue), which to them is indistinguishable from green. Likewise, if aliens receiving our signal can see e.g. yellow directly, then they might wonder from our broadcasts how in the hell our sun appears reddish-green with no yellow in it, when no star should ever be that color. (Because to human eyes, red+green looks identical to yellow, even if there is no actual yellow involved, so we send red+green as a shorthand for "yellow", but that's contingent on the viewer being human to fall for that illusion).


actually, they wouldn't know that a particular mix of signals means red+green. they would have to figure out the correct colour interpretation anyway (how? any items coloured equally everywhere?) so the'd say "oh, this mix of signals obviously means yellow" and display it accordingly.


Except that they can distinguish "yellow" and "red-green" just like we can distinguish "green" and "purple" - we use the same signal for "yellow" as we do for "red-green" because our eyes can't tell the difference, but for these hypothetical aliens, they'd have to guess each time that signal came up which colour we meant...

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby teelo » Wed May 15, 2013 11:03 pm UTC

Dammit Randall, how DARE you omit ITS OVER NINE THOUSAND!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111111111111111111111111


:(

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yellow103
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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby yellow103 » Wed May 15, 2013 11:05 pm UTC

When a cyborg civilization sees our fear of them and perfect arguments for why such a civilization would attack us, we are dead.
Thanks a lot Star Trek.

Blaisorblade
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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby Blaisorblade » Wed May 15, 2013 11:29 pm UTC

Can we get this comic as a poster? Or even as a T-shirt?

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby wagner » Thu May 16, 2013 12:18 am UTC

cellocgw wrote:Which reminds me - if all those stars listen to "War of the Worlds" they'll decide not to fuck w/ Earthlings.


Or, you know, they could just decide to leave their environment suits on... If they've mastered interstellar flight, xenobiology is a walk in the park.

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Reecer6
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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby Reecer6 » Thu May 16, 2013 12:40 am UTC

teelo wrote:Dammit Randall, how DARE you omit ITS OVER NINE THOUSAND!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111111111111111111111111

Because stars already emit tons of petawatts, and so a power level of 9000 is microscopic to them. They don't get why every character in Dragon Ball Z should hardly be able to live, yet they do so much.

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby bmonk » Thu May 16, 2013 1:06 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Nevermind that our color broadcasts, even decoded, are not in true color but a mix of red, green, and blue channels which the human eye can't distinguish from true color. To aliens with completely different optical biology, they would get a completely mistaken image (literally!) of what our world looked like.

Imagine, for comparison, a species which sees colors based on how warm (red) or cool (blue) they are, with medium-warmth colors like green being encoded as a mix of warm and cool light... and then we humans who detect green directly would wonder why all the grass in that species' images was colored purple (red+blue), which to them is indistinguishable from green. Likewise, if aliens receiving our signal can see e.g. yellow directly, then they might wonder from our broadcasts how in the hell our sun appears reddish-green with no yellow in it, when no star should ever be that color. (Because to human eyes, red+green looks identical to yellow, even if there is no actual yellow involved, so we send red+green as a shorthand for "yellow", but that's contingent on the viewer being human to fall for that illusion).


Also, don't forget that we rely on the particular speed of films or TVs to avoid a flickering image. Another race's eyes might find it visible and annoying.
Having become a Wizard on n.p. 2183, the Yellow Piggy retroactively appointed his honorable self a Temporal Wizardly Piggy on n.p.1488, not to be effective until n.p. 2183, thereby avoiding a partial temporal paradox. Since he couldn't afford two philosophical PhDs to rule on the title.

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby Pfhorrest » Thu May 16, 2013 4:01 am UTC

rmsgrey wrote:
speising wrote:actually, they wouldn't know that a particular mix of signals means red+green. they would have to figure out the correct colour interpretation anyway (how? any items coloured equally everywhere?) so the'd say "oh, this mix of signals obviously means yellow" and display it accordingly.


Except that they can distinguish "yellow" and "red-green" just like we can distinguish "green" and "purple" - we use the same signal for "yellow" as we do for "red-green" because our eyes can't tell the difference, but for these hypothetical aliens, they'd have to guess each time that signal came up which colour we meant...

Actually, speising does have something of a point, though your rebuttal is correct as well.

To decode the images at all, the aliens would need to first discover that the image was being encoded in three channels (deducing from that that we have tricolor vision), and then figure out what the physical output of the receiving device for each channel is intended to be (and thus which three colors we see). They might plausibly do so by looking at the monochrome images of things in the signal, identifying by shape what they are meant to be, figuring out what color such things should be (they can probably tell from telescopic imagery what color our daytime sun and sky should appear, for instance), and then seeing which channels show those objects the brightest to tell what color the receiving device is supposed to display those channels as.

They will then know that to us, red-green appears as yellow, so although a naive display of our signal as intended would present them with red-green where we intended yellow, they could post-process the signal to show the spectral colors between red and green when a mix of red and green signals are received, and thus see yellow where we see yellow.

What would still seem odd to them would then be the total absence of the red-green color they perceive (and we do not) from the images we broadcast. Consider again the hypothetical species with only two-color vision, who send two-channel signals of "warm" and "cool" colors. We could deduce that pure "warm" should display as red and pure "cool" should display as blue and a mix of warm and cool should display as a spectral color between red and blue (e.g. green), but we would then be struck by the total absence of purples from their imagery, because the perception of purple is a byproduct of tricolor vision (and cannot be encoded in a two-channel signal), just as the perception of red-green would require four-color vision with a fourth yellow channel (or, I suppose, tricolor vision with red, yellow, and green channels instead of red, green, and blue).

Basically, they wouldn't have to guess whether to show red-green or yellow, because they would know that we have no such color as red-green, and to always show yellow instead. That would leave our images entirely lacking one of their usual colors, however.

bmonk wrote:Also, don't forget that we rely on the particular speed of films or TVs to avoid a flickering image. Another race's eyes might find it visible and annoying.

It also occurs to me that our photographic lenses are curved to take in the same field of view that our eyes do, and aliens with different kinds of eyes that see different fields of view would find something filmed through our lenses as disorienting as something filmed with a fisheye lense is to us. Of course, they could also compensate for that by projecting the images onto screens that wrap around different fields of view, the same way that an image filmed with a fisheye lense projected onto a dome will produce an image that looks normal to us, though we can only see one segment of it at a time.
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Fire Brns
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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby Fire Brns » Thu May 16, 2013 6:03 am UTC

Klear wrote:
Fire Brns wrote:I was mildly disturbed to see another star saying "resistance is futile".

Actually, half of the sci-fi ones are disturbing to imagine.


Imagine how disturbing they have to be to the other civilizations that receive them. For them, we are the aliens.

Dammit, now I have to build a radio tower in my back yard tomorrow and blast the phrase "sorry" into space on a loop.
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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby cplot » Thu May 16, 2013 6:56 am UTC

Unfortunately this comic falls a little foul of the Theory of Relativity :cry:
There is no universal clock by which we can say what is happening right now on various stars. Depending on your frame of reference the distance that light has to travel would also vary between different stars and different observers may disagree on the order in which two stars receive a given signal.
And to further complicate matters, if we try to use our sun's frame of reference as the standard to get around this, you have to remember that it is not an Inertial frame of reference as the sun undergoes gravitational pull from other stars.
At best we can create an arbitrary definition of the current time on these stars that makes sense to us, but then again our brains are very good at dismissing such difficulties.

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby jpvlsmv » Thu May 16, 2013 1:26 pm UTC

Jackpot777 wrote:
Can we start a movement to reinstall the thorn (Þ) back in the English language as the "th" letter?

At the very least, it'll get rid of the "ye olde shoppe" bollocks.

As long as the movement also advocates eliminating the rediculous extra "e" and doubled-consonant at the end of the words as well. Especially when used to name a brand-new strip mall "Ye Olde Parke Shoppes".

Personally, I protest by pronouncing them explicitly- Your store would be pronounced YhEE oldEE shop-pEE

--Joe

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby TrueNarnian » Thu May 16, 2013 1:52 pm UTC

Polaris: "To be, or not to be"

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby Akamai » Thu May 16, 2013 2:28 pm UTC

Any conspiracy theorist worth their tinfoil would point out that signals can travel in both directions-- from the stars as well as to the stars. Has anyone here actually met a studio executive? Did any of the old broadcasters submit to blood screenings or x-rays that prove their human origins?

I didn't think so.

If the hidden world government is really being run by lizard people, and humans couldn't possibly built pyramids on their own and without help, how likely is it that we could create so many lasting memes by ourselves?

Hmm... perhaps the Galactic Overlords are in the midst of a great power struggle with each meme being the slogan of the faction currently gaining dominence.

In that case, the only question is, Where's the beef that can haz cheeseburger, lolcat? Where's the beef indeed.

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby RabbitWho » Thu May 16, 2013 2:55 pm UTC

TV station broadcasts travel at the speed of light?

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby rmsgrey » Thu May 16, 2013 3:16 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:
speising wrote:actually, they wouldn't know that a particular mix of signals means red+green. they would have to figure out the correct colour interpretation anyway (how? any items coloured equally everywhere?) so the'd say "oh, this mix of signals obviously means yellow" and display it accordingly.


Except that they can distinguish "yellow" and "red-green" just like we can distinguish "green" and "purple" - we use the same signal for "yellow" as we do for "red-green" because our eyes can't tell the difference, but for these hypothetical aliens, they'd have to guess each time that signal came up which colour we meant...

Actually, speising does have something of a point, though your rebuttal is correct as well.

To decode the images at all, the aliens would need to first discover that the image was being encoded in three channels (deducing from that that we have tricolor vision), and then figure out what the physical output of the receiving device for each channel is intended to be (and thus which three colors we see). They might plausibly do so by looking at the monochrome images of things in the signal, identifying by shape what they are meant to be, figuring out what color such things should be (they can probably tell from telescopic imagery what color our daytime sun and sky should appear, for instance), and then seeing which channels show those objects the brightest to tell what color the receiving device is supposed to display those channels as.

They will then know that to us, red-green appears as yellow, so although a naive display of our signal as intended would present them with red-green where we intended yellow, they could post-process the signal to show the spectral colors between red and green when a mix of red and green signals are received, and thus see yellow where we see yellow.

What would still seem odd to them would then be the total absence of the red-green color they perceive (and we do not) from the images we broadcast. Consider again the hypothetical species with only two-color vision, who send two-channel signals of "warm" and "cool" colors. We could deduce that pure "warm" should display as red and pure "cool" should display as blue and a mix of warm and cool should display as a spectral color between red and blue (e.g. green), but we would then be struck by the total absence of purples from their imagery, because the perception of purple is a byproduct of tricolor vision (and cannot be encoded in a two-channel signal), just as the perception of red-green would require four-color vision with a fourth yellow channel (or, I suppose, tricolor vision with red, yellow, and green channels instead of red, green, and blue).

Basically, they wouldn't have to guess whether to show red-green or yellow, because they would know that we have no such color as red-green, and to always show yellow instead. That would leave our images entirely lacking one of their usual colors, however.


That would let them output pictures we'd recognise, but they'd look as weird to them as the images we'd see if we decoded the two-colour signal as always-green
with some flowers being green, and blackberries leaving green stains on people's fingers and around their mouths...

There are undoubtedly things that should be red-green as well as things that should be yellow out there, and always-yellow would get the red-green ones wrong...

---

As for figuring out what colour our sky should be, that requires not just knowing what light the sun outputs (easy enough) but also what our atmosphere is made of (possible, but rather harder) and even then, figuring out where in the range of possible colours the three peaks should be wouldn't be trivial - a better bet would be intercepting a science program about astronomy and using an illustration of an absorption or an emission spectrum to figure out the range of visible colours...

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby YellowYeti » Thu May 16, 2013 4:01 pm UTC


That would let them output pictures we'd recognise, but they'd look as weird to them as the images we'd see if we decoded the two-colour signal as always-green
with some flowers being green, and blackberries leaving green stains on people's fingers and around their mouths...

There are undoubtedly things that should be red-green as well as things that should be yellow out there, and always-yellow would get the red-green ones wrong...

---

As for figuring out what colour our sky should be, that requires not just knowing what light the sun outputs (easy enough) but also what our atmosphere is made of (possible, but rather harder) and even then, figuring out where in the range of possible colours the three peaks should be wouldn't be trivial - a better bet would be intercepting a science program about astronomy and using an illustration of an absorption or an emission spectrum to figure out the range of visible colours...


TV broadcasts have 3 visual components, but to further complicate matters for our interstellar neighbours, these aren't RGB, but rather YUV, where Y is a combination of RGB ( to maintain compatibility with B&W systems ), and UV are both difference signals, allowing RGB values to be derived - though to make things worse, these are weighted values, effectively giving a different gain to each of the RGB channels.

We really need to start broadcasting our video transmission specifications asap for the good of their mental health.

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby Klear » Thu May 16, 2013 6:00 pm UTC

jpvlsmv wrote:
Jackpot777 wrote:
Can we start a movement to reinstall the thorn (Þ) back in the English language as the "th" letter?

At the very least, it'll get rid of the "ye olde shoppe" bollocks.

As long as the movement also advocates eliminating the rediculous extra "e" and doubled-consonant at the end of the words as well. Especially when used to name a brand-new strip mall "Ye Olde Parke Shoppes".

Personally, I protest by pronouncing them explicitly- Your store would be pronounced YhEE oldEE shop-pEE

--Joe


Isn't that movement called "american English"?

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby rmsgrey » Thu May 16, 2013 7:14 pm UTC

YellowYeti wrote:

That would let them output pictures we'd recognise, but they'd look as weird to them as the images we'd see if we decoded the two-colour signal as always-green
with some flowers being green, and blackberries leaving green stains on people's fingers and around their mouths...

There are undoubtedly things that should be red-green as well as things that should be yellow out there, and always-yellow would get the red-green ones wrong...

---

As for figuring out what colour our sky should be, that requires not just knowing what light the sun outputs (easy enough) but also what our atmosphere is made of (possible, but rather harder) and even then, figuring out where in the range of possible colours the three peaks should be wouldn't be trivial - a better bet would be intercepting a science program about astronomy and using an illustration of an absorption or an emission spectrum to figure out the range of visible colours...


TV broadcasts have 3 visual components, but to further complicate matters for our interstellar neighbours, these aren't RGB, but rather YUV, where Y is a combination of RGB ( to maintain compatibility with B&W systems ), and UV are both difference signals, allowing RGB values to be derived - though to make things worse, these are weighted values, effectively giving a different gain to each of the RGB channels.

We really need to start broadcasting our video transmission specifications asap for the good of their mental health.


Although nowadays, a lot of it is digital rather than analog anyway, and the US NTSC broadcast used YIQ rather than YUV, where I is blue-orange balance and Q is green-purple balance...

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby da Doctah » Thu May 16, 2013 10:21 pm UTC

TrueNarnian wrote:Polaris: "To be, or not to be"
I thought about that one too (although I wasn't sure which play was early enough in Will's career to have reached that distance yet). Never mind that there were no radio broadcasts to carry the words at that point.

I keep thinking of the Squire of Gothos, who had apparently been "observing" Earth in detail without taking the speed of light into account and who missed the era by a similar margin.

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby ijuin » Fri May 17, 2013 5:11 am UTC

RabbitWho wrote:TV station broadcasts travel at the speed of light?


Yes, all radio/television broadcasts use electromagnetic waves, which travel at the same speed as light (also an assortment of electromagnetic waves) through any given medium.

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby RabbitWho » Fri May 17, 2013 7:11 am UTC

ijuin wrote:
RabbitWho wrote:TV station broadcasts travel at the speed of light?


Yes, all radio/television broadcasts use electromagnetic waves, which travel at the same speed as light (also an assortment of electromagnetic waves) through any given medium.


Wow! That cool, thanks.

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby WriteBrainedJR » Fri May 17, 2013 1:49 pm UTC

jpvlsmv wrote:
Jackpot777 wrote:
Can we start a movement to reinstall the thorn (Þ) back in the English language as the "th" letter?

At the very least, it'll get rid of the "ye olde shoppe" bollocks.

As long as the movement also advocates eliminating the rediculous extra "e" and doubled-consonant at the end of the words as well. Especially when used to name a brand-new strip mall "Ye Olde Parke Shoppes".

Personally, I protest by pronouncing them explicitly- Your store would be pronounced YhEE oldEE shop-pEE

--Joe

The extra "e" that was dropped from some words in Modern English actually was pronounced in Old and Middle English, but it was pronounced as a schwa (equivalent to eh or uh) rather than the high front vowel you use in protest.

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby addams » Fri May 17, 2013 3:31 pm UTC

leftnotracks wrote:How can a star 74 light years away receive a broadcast less than 37 years old?

Source: Wikipedia, look up GWTW, Television and home video. I cannot post a link because any link gets the post flagged as spam.

That is a good question.
I will attempt to find Your link.

umm. Is the comic making a comment on English Speaking Culture?
It is making a comment on American Culture?

Remember the Movie, 'Contact'?
The first radio signals strong enough to Reach The Stars was in German; In the Film.

The Russians may have been Sending out a Strong Signal in Russian for a Long Time.
That signal would swamp the English signals.

But; If we Stop for a moment and Think.
What do we Say to one another?

Not what do The Aliens think of us.
What do we think of us?

Off to find your Link. Or; Not.
Not.
GWTW comes up with Gone With The Wind.
You are interested in the speed of Light; Not the speed of Wind.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

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Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

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Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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bmonk
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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby bmonk » Sat May 18, 2013 8:57 pm UTC

WriteBrainedJR wrote:
jpvlsmv wrote:
Jackpot777 wrote:
Can we start a movement to reinstall the thorn (Þ) back in the English language as the "th" letter?

At the very least, it'll get rid of the "ye olde shoppe" bollocks.

As long as the movement also advocates eliminating the rediculous extra "e" and doubled-consonant at the end of the words as well. Especially when used to name a brand-new strip mall "Ye Olde Parke Shoppes".

Personally, I protest by pronouncing them explicitly- Your store would be pronounced YhEE oldEE shop-pEE

--Joe

The extra "e" that was dropped from some words in Modern English actually was pronounced in Old and Middle English, but it was pronounced as a schwa (equivalent to eh or uh) rather than the high front vowel you use in protest.

And "Ye" itself was a misreading of "þe", with the þ (thorn) being the equivalent of "th", so that "þe" is actually "the." The Olduh Shoppuh. It doesn't sound so bad as all that.
Having become a Wizard on n.p. 2183, the Yellow Piggy retroactively appointed his honorable self a Temporal Wizardly Piggy on n.p.1488, not to be effective until n.p. 2183, thereby avoiding a partial temporal paradox. Since he couldn't afford two philosophical PhDs to rule on the title.

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby W3ird_N3rd » Sun May 19, 2013 2:34 am UTC

I am missing an arrow that says "you are here". :(

And where's Hitler? I've heard he was rather popular in the radiowaves and all.
tsadi wrote:Serious question: So if a person travels FTL to the destination star system to apologize in advance for a broadcast they haven't received yet - does that imply time travel? Or time travel but from the point of view of the people in that star system only, but surely not from the point of view of the traveller?

No.

I could send a rocket towards your house at 1000km/h and in ~50ms send you a text in advance to apologize for it, before it arrives. Did not timetravel.

*beep* *beep* "dafuq?" boom! :)
Plutarch wrote:This assumes that aliens would show a preference for American and British pop culture. They might not. They might prefer Japanese, or Chinese, or Indian. They might all be repeating their favourite Japanese phrases from anime, or copying cosplay, or massed Bollywood dancing.

Equally they may all be greeting each other everyday saying "heil hitler!".

They'll likely be oblivious to what a jew is, or that Hitler wasn't just "that guy that opened the human move-around-much-contest (olympics)".
Someguy945 wrote:I was hoping one of the catchphrases would be "I heard about it on the Interblag!"

What about "THIS IS SPARTA!".

Upon reception, the aliens come to us and upon arrival ask the first person they see "Hi. Is this sparta?".
Jackpot777 wrote:
Bob Stein - VisiBone wrote:Point of order, how will they pick up internet videos, will they have to hack into 802.11g and SSL??


Tosh.0 must have leaked from a DirecTV satellite.

There are actually quite a few satellites that have beams that go a bit over the edge of the earth. In my opinion these signals are the most likely to be received by alien civilizations because they don't have to travel through the atmosphere and were designed for (relatively) long-distance communication to begin with. Much easier than reception of some 11g router over long distances.

Also, when you would aim an antenna at "earth" and tune to, say, 546mhz you'd get dozens of different television stations. You would need some real precision to aim your antenna at just one of them. The antenna on a satellite is more directional, but you would only be able to receive once satellite for a short amount of time, as the world turns.
sotanaht wrote:What would it require to actually translate the signal? Assuming some alien race intercepted earth broadcasts intact, would it even be possible to turn those broadcasts into something watchable without direct knowledge of earth electronic systems or languages?

I'd say yes. For analog it should be relatively simple. For digital, they'll probably quickly find out from looking at the signal that it is in fact digital (and binary), but will take some time to figure out how to decode it to a bitstream. Once they have a bitstream, they still have to figure out things like our text standard (the alphabet is probably not in the stream, you're supposed to have that on your decoder) and audio/video codecs. Assuming they have at least our intelligence, it'll take them a number of years. Probably a decade or so.

Obviously if they find after many years they've been working on an encrypted HBO channel, they may have to start all over again. Encryption is possibly impossible to break when you've never seen a key. (hackers on earth readily have access to the smartcards and can "simply" extract the keys. aliens can't order smartcards)
YellowYeti wrote:We really need to start broadcasting our video transmission specifications asap for the good of their mental health.

I bet interlacing will also be great fun for them.

Absolutely impossible to figure out why the hell we did that when you don't know our technology.

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby webgiant » Sun May 19, 2013 9:10 am UTC

da Doctah wrote:So where's the star system that's running through the massive catchphrase output of Rowan and Martin's Laugh-In and Get Smart? And the slightly nearer one that's gobbling up the early years of SNL?

Oh my, there's a star system currently receiving all of the Patrick Troughton Doctor Who episodes, including all of the lost episodes. We've got to hurry up and develop FTL!

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby webgiant » Sun May 19, 2013 9:21 am UTC

wolf99 wrote:So whats the oldest one on there? (not old enough, or versed enough in stellar distances, to posit an answer myself!)

Well I know what the oldest one might be (ignoring Morse code as "not pop culture") but its not on the list: "One, two, three, four. Is it snowing where you are, Mr. Thiessen? If it is, telegraph back and let me know." Or his radio broadcast in 1906, which in addition to being the first (widely available) audio radio broadcast, it was also the first music recording broadcast, the first singing broadcast, and the first violin playing broadcast.

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby LordHorst » Mon May 20, 2013 1:50 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:Secondly, not having experienced the primary source of a popular meme doesn't make it unsurprising that you don't know it.


It does. In my country, all movies and series get dubbed. So that catch phrase would be a different (translated) one. But I don't even know her german catch phrase, since I never had any interest at all in this series.

Also, Frasier is an awesome show. ;)

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby WriteBrainedJR » Mon May 20, 2013 8:34 pm UTC

bmonk wrote:
WriteBrainedJR wrote:
jpvlsmv wrote:
Jackpot777 wrote:
Can we start a movement to reinstall the thorn (Þ) back in the English language as the "th" letter?

At the very least, it'll get rid of the "ye olde shoppe" bollocks.

As long as the movement also advocates eliminating the rediculous extra "e" and doubled-consonant at the end of the words as well. Especially when used to name a brand-new strip mall "Ye Olde Parke Shoppes".

Personally, I protest by pronouncing them explicitly- Your store would be pronounced YhEE oldEE shop-pEE

--Joe

The extra "e" that was dropped from some words in Modern English actually was pronounced in Old and Middle English, but it was pronounced as a schwa (equivalent to eh or uh) rather than the high front vowel you use in protest.

And "Ye" itself was a misreading of "þe", with the þ (thorn) being the equivalent of "th", so that "þe" is actually "the." The Olduh Shoppuh. It doesn't sound so bad as all that.

Nice to see I wasn't the one who stayed awake during History of the English Language.

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby bmonk » Mon May 20, 2013 11:14 pm UTC

WriteBrainedJR wrote:
bmonk wrote:
WriteBrainedJR wrote:
jpvlsmv wrote:
Jackpot777 wrote:
Can we start a movement to reinstall the thorn (Þ) back in the English language as the "th" letter?

At the very least, it'll get rid of the "ye olde shoppe" bollocks.

As long as the movement also advocates eliminating the rediculous extra "e" and doubled-consonant at the end of the words as well. Especially when used to name a brand-new strip mall "Ye Olde Parke Shoppes".

Personally, I protest by pronouncing them explicitly- Your store would be pronounced YhEE oldEE shop-pEE

--Joe

The extra "e" that was dropped from some words in Modern English actually was pronounced in Old and Middle English, but it was pronounced as a schwa (equivalent to eh or uh) rather than the high front vowel you use in protest.

And "Ye" itself was a misreading of "þe", with the þ (thorn) being the equivalent of "th", so that "þe" is actually "the." The Olduh Shoppuh. It doesn't sound so bad as all that.

Nice to see I wasn't the one who stayed awake during History of the English Language.

Nah. I picked most of that up later in life, once I was able to study at my own leisure.
Having become a Wizard on n.p. 2183, the Yellow Piggy retroactively appointed his honorable self a Temporal Wizardly Piggy on n.p.1488, not to be effective until n.p. 2183, thereby avoiding a partial temporal paradox. Since he couldn't afford two philosophical PhDs to rule on the title.

severach
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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby severach » Tue May 21, 2013 5:18 am UTC

W3ird_N3rd wrote:Absolutely impossible to figure out why the hell we did that when you don't know our technology.

Nonsense. Alien internal combustion engineers wouldn't have a clue but alien broadcast electronics engineers would have lots of ideas. They would record the signal then proceed through existing and historical technology until they figured it out. AM and FM will probably be figured out quickly. The video signal will take longer but progress will be speeded along by having the audio.

That's exactly what we'll do when we received organized signals. Record and send them around to electronics engineers to figure them out.

Randall forgot Radio and Morse Code. ..-. --- .-. / ... .... .- -- .! Morse is the signal most likely to arrive intact and will be the most cryptic as it contains no surplus information.

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby ijuin » Tue May 21, 2013 7:16 am UTC

True--Morse Code might easily be misinterpreted as a binary digital code as opposed to an alphabet code, and the only pattern to the selection of which set of dots and dashes represents which letter is that the length of a letter's encoding is roughly inversely related to its statistical prevalence in Western European languages (thus ensuring a minimum uncompressed message length).

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby Klear » Tue May 21, 2013 9:48 am UTC

I'm pretty sure Morse code would be impossible to decode without some additional Rosetta-like information.

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Re: 1212: "Interstellar Memes"

Postby orthogon » Tue May 21, 2013 10:34 am UTC

severach wrote:Randall forgot Radio and Morse Code. ..-. --- .-. / ... .... .- -- .! Morse is the signal most likely to arrive intact and will be the most cryptic as it contains no surplus information.

Owing to a combination of keming, burgeoning myopia and rustiness I read that first as "USA SHAG!" Let's hope the aliens don't make the same mistake...
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.


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