1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

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1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby Quicksilver » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:12 am UTC

Image
Alt Text:"Actual quote from The Demo: '... an advantage of being online is that it keeps track of who you are and what you’re doing all the time ...'"
RIP Douglas, and thanks for the invention of the mouse. It's amazing how useful that little guy is.

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby rhomboidal » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:17 am UTC

Another cat is saying YOLNT. My mind reels to imagine what Engelbart would've invented with nine lives.

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby Davidy » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:26 am UTC

Engelbart : PC = Tesla : everything else.
"It's only funny until someone loses an eye, then it's still funny but they can only see it in 2-D."

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby Klear » Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:25 am UTC

rhomboidal wrote:Another cat is saying YOLNT. My mind reels to imagine what Engelbart would've invented with nine lives.


First thing that came to my mind was You Only Live Not Today.
I guess I've been watching too much asdf

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby rivulatus » Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:43 am UTC

Rip douglas Engelbart, you were a great man.

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby sotanaht » Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:57 am UTC

Klear wrote:
rhomboidal wrote:Another cat is saying YOLNT. My mind reels to imagine what Engelbart would've invented with nine lives.


First thing that came to my mind was You Only Live Not Today.
I guess I've been watching too much asdf


At first glance I thought "You Only Live Not Twice", since that's still technically accurate. It only took a second to figure out what it really meant though.

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby hailthefish » Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:58 am UTC

You Only Live N Times.

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby orthogon » Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:12 am UTC

Is this a good time to bump my proof of the feline indestructibility theorem?
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby therj » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:07 am UTC

Leonard Cohen and YOLO, very funny.

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby PinkShinyRose » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:13 am UTC

So he actually predicted the big all-knowing advertisement companies (well, mostly the one with the 'g')? Although he described it as "an advantage" instead of creepy.

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby Klear » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:37 am UTC

hailthefish wrote:You Only Live N Times.


You win.

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby orthogon » Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:47 pm UTC

PinkShinyRose wrote:So he actually predicted the big all-knowing advertisement companies (well, mostly the one with the 'g')? Although he described it as "an advantage" instead of creepy.


"Before we rush to adopt technology that keeps track of who you are and what you're doing all the time, etc."
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby ctdonath » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:09 pm UTC

Yup, one guy invented computing as you know it.

So what are you going to do today?
Last edited by ctdonath on Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:45 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby matthewhaworth » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:22 pm UTC

Anyone else notice this is comic 1234?

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby Mike Rore » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:45 pm UTC

I remember the video of Douglas Engelbart demonstrating the use of the mouse, only that the "mouse" was controlled using both hands. A set of controls were attached to the chair's left arm rest and the "pointing" was done by something akin to a joystick on the right arm rest of the chair.

He was a great man and a true modern inventor, he was always concerned about making the technology easy to use and defined many principles of the human-machine interactions.

RIP Douglas

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby Steve the Pocket » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:49 pm UTC

ctdonath wrote:Yup, one guy invented computing as you know it.

So what are you going to do today?

Nothing. Most people took the day off because yesterday was a holiday and tomorrow is the weekend.

Unlike, say, Ayn Rand, I recognize that not everyone can become one of the greats, and that failure to do so does not automatically make one a burden on society.
cephalopod9 wrote:Only on Xkcd can you start a topic involving Hitler and people spend the better part of half a dozen pages arguing about the quality of Operating Systems.

Baige.

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby orthogon » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:11 pm UTC

Steve the Pocket wrote:
ctdonath wrote:Yup, one guy invented computing as you know it.

So what are you going to do today?

Nothing. Most people took the day off because yesterday was a holiday and tomorrow is the weekend.

Unlike, say, Ayn Rand, I recognize that not everyone can become one of the greats, and that failure to do so does not automatically make one a burden on society.


The examples and perspective in this post may not represent a worldwide view of the subject. ;)

Still, thanks for pointing that out. I was wondering why it was so quiet yesterday. I used to have a calendar with international holidays, religious festivals etc, which would have told me. This year, instead, I have the freebie "Visit England" calendar from The Guardian, which informs me only that the Manchester International Festival began yesterday.

Also, many great inventions were made on the inventor's day off [citation needed].
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby PinkShinyRose » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:15 pm UTC

Steve the Pocket wrote:
ctdonath wrote:Yup, one guy invented computing as you know it.

So what are you going to do today?

Nothing. Most people took the day off because yesterday was a holiday and tomorrow is the weekend.

Unlike, say, Ayn Rand, I recognize that not everyone can become one of the greats, and that failure to do so does not automatically make one a burden on society.


I didn't have a holiday :(. I will have a weekend though :D. Oh, right, it was US independence day right? Or was it French revolution day, or whatever it is called, the day they celebrate beheading their king? They were somehow on similar dates.

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby ctdonath » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:26 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:many great inventions were made on the inventor's day off [citation needed].

"Strange how much human progress and achievement comes from contemplation of the irrelevant." - Scott Kim, _Inversions_

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby orthogon » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:43 pm UTC

PinkShinyRose wrote:Or was it French revolution day, or whatever it is called, the day they celebrate beheading their king? They were somehow on similar dates.


Do you mean Bastille day, or le quatorze juillet, which is celebrated on G14?

EDIT: Link fail
Last edited by orthogon on Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:00 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby CharlieBing » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:51 pm UTC

I remember the video of Douglas Engelbart demonstrating the use of the mouse, only that the "mouse" was controlled using both hands. A set of controls were attached to the chair's left arm rest and the "pointing" was done by something akin to a joystick on the right arm rest of the chair.

In fact, the control on the left - a set of five small "paddles" - was a "chording keyboard" and had nothing to do with the mouse directly. Rather, it allowed the user to type with one hand on the left and mouse around on the right. Single touches or combinations of touches produced different letters, and some combinations generated specific codes. I used a chording keyboard for a while after surgery on my right hand and it was really interesting... didn't use it long enough to get 110% used to it, but I can see the potential if it's the only option.

Amazing man: I discovered him when I wrote my masters thesis, and "blame" him for getting the degree!

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby da Doctah » Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:08 pm UTC

Steve the Pocket wrote:Unlike, say, Ayn Rand, I recognize that not everyone can become one of the greats, and that failure to do so does not automatically make one a burden on society.

You say "burden on society" like it's a bad thing.

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby pixeldigger » Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:14 pm UTC

Another that didn't READ Ayn rand?
You DON'T have to be great to be productive. You have to be productive.

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby wurlitzer153 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:03 pm UTC


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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby AlexTheSeal » Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:38 pm UTC

Steve the Pocket wrote:Unlike, say, Ayn Rand, I recognize that not everyone can become one of the greats, and that failure to do so does not automatically make one a burden on society.


Hooray for willful mediocrity!

Code: Select all

10 REM WORLD'S SMALLEST ADVENTURE GAME
20 PRINT "YOU ARE IN A CAVE (N, S, E, W)? ";
30 INPUT A$
40 GOTO 10

Lulled to sleep by the one-hertz chuckle of Linux logfile writes since 1997.

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby dr5t3v3 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:41 pm UTC

Another actual quote from The Demo:

Well, this is going to be more important than it looks...


(at 00:04:45)

--
dr5t3v3

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby PinkShinyRose » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:22 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:
PinkShinyRose wrote:Or was it French revolution day, or whatever it is called, the day they celebrate beheading their king? They were somehow on similar dates.


Do you mean Bastille day, or le quatorze juillet, which is celebrated on G14?

EDIT: Link fail


Yes, that's what I meant, very similar, just an extra 1. Only I forgot they celebrate the storming of the Bastille, not beheading the king.

CharlieBing wrote:In fact, the control on the left - a set of five small "paddles" - was a "chording keyboard" and had nothing to do with the mouse directly. Rather, it allowed the user to type with one hand on the left and mouse around on the right. Single touches or combinations of touches produced different letters, and some combinations generated specific codes. I used a chording keyboard for a while after surgery on my right hand and it was really interesting... didn't use it long enough to get 110% used to it, but I can see the potential if it's the only option.


Actually, the translators who type for (nearly) deaf people (instead of signing, mostly for people who do not know sign language yet) here use similar keyboards. Though they type with two hands, and they type entire words with a single key combination (the firmware orders the characters correctly based on the exact key combination). I think it has much more potential than only as a last resort when two handed keyboards are used: they are much faster than normal keyboards.

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby lalop » Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:16 pm UTC

PinkShinyRose wrote:Actually, the translators who type for (nearly) deaf people (instead of signing, mostly for people who do not know sign language yet) here use similar keyboards. Though they type with two hands, and they type entire words with a single key combination (the firmware orders the characters correctly based on the exact key combination). I think it has much more potential than only as a last resort when two handed keyboards are used: they are much faster than normal keyboards.


Presentation on that.

IIRC it's more like typing based on a "dictionary" of mostly phonetic shortcuts. Basically at the speed of talking.

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby Bob Munck » Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:47 pm UTC

CharlieBing wrote:the control on the left - a set of five small "paddles" - was a "chording keyboard" and had nothing to do with the mouse directly

It did to some extent. The second generation mouse had three buttons that were essentially shift keys for the chord keyboard. (After all, a five-key chord can only be used to enter 31 different characters.) The three mouse buttons were also chorded, so you had a total of seven possible shifts. I don't really remember, but it's likely that one of those was the modern mouse click, like the lone button on the first-gen mouse.

I found the mouse to be wonderful; we'd been using a lightpen on a vertical screen on the Hypertext project, and that really gets to your wrist and forearm. (We were thinking about getting a Rand Tablet (just input, no display), but the darn thing cost about $650,000 in today's dollars.) In the short time we spent visiting Doug at SRI, I couldn't manage anything useful with the chord keyboard.

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby cream wobbly » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:21 pm UTC

pixeldigger wrote:Another that didn't READ Ayn rand?
You DON'T have to be great to be productive. You have to be productive.

Why? Genuine question. Explain why productivity is necessary to society.

I accept destructiveness is bad: undoing the work of others is unkind. But it is not unkind to simply feed, clothe, and house oneself and one's family. Indeed, isn't such a necessary input for lazy capitalism, if the ruling corporations are to have a ready supply of workers?

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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby Pfhorrest » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:41 pm UTC

cream wobbly wrote:But it is not unkind to simply feed, clothe, and house oneself and one's family.

I think that's all that's intended by "productive". It takes resources of some sort for every person just to keep living; life is automatically "destructive", as you put it, at least to some extent. So if a person is not producing resources at least sufficient to supply what they need to keep living, then they will necessarily be taking resources from everyone else, being destructive on the whole. So you need to be at least productive enough to counter the inherent destructiveness of just living, otherwise you are on the whole destructive, which you accept is bad.

Of course this whole thing overlooks the terrifying reality that no matter what we do, we cannot really counter the automatic destructiveness of living, and all our lives are entirely dependent upon consuming resources from our environment, produced ultimately by work done on the Earth by the light of the Sun, which while vast is still a limited resource. There is a limited amount of usable energy in the universe, and living in any capacity is going to gradually use it up, and there's nothing we can do to fix that, barring discovery of new physics that lets us reverse entropy.

All of descriptive economics should really just be seen as a special application of thermodynamics. All resources are just forms of energy, as they flow they do work and allow life to flourish, but eventually they are used up, and we need a constant influx of them in order to keep life flourishing here. We can try not to waste them needlessly, try to make sure that they flow freely and do not just accumulate in one place, but in the end it's all about how much thermodynamically free energy we have.
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Re: 1234: "Douglas Engelbart (1925-2013)"

Postby ijuin » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:14 am UTC

Sadly, a great deal of economic theories are interested less in describing how things are than in how things "ought to be"--the is/ought fallacy. Most especially, many theories seek to explain why the author's favored segment of society (e.g. labor, landowners, financiers, industrialists, merchants, or whoever) "ought to" get a bigger slice of the pie than they previously got.


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