1269: "Privacy Opinions"

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1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby rhomboidal » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:04 am UTC

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Title Text: I'm the Philosopher until someone hands me a burrito.

Of course, if we're all trapped in the Matrix, then the burrito is data, too. TASTY data...

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby Quicksilver » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:17 am UTC

I'm a cross between The Nihilist and The Sage.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby SomeoneSomewhere » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:32 am UTC

Sometime I'll put a 15GB (or slightly less so I have room for a little other stuff) TrueCrypt file on Google Docs called '9/11 Repeat Plans' and let them spend a while cracking it... The contents will be a text file with 'I hope you didn't expect that processing time back' in it.

I'm probably somewhere between the crypto nut (who can't really be bothered doing anything) and a mild conspiracist.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby Goggalor » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:36 am UTC

Quicksilver wrote:I'm a cross between The Nihilist and The Sage.

I came here to say the exact same thing.

Wait, were you reading my mind? Are you with the NSA? I need to go make a new tinfoil hat!
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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby Quicksilver » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:40 am UTC

Goggalor wrote:
Quicksilver wrote:I'm a cross between The Nihilist and The Sage.

I came here to say the exact same thing.

Wait, were you reading my mind? Are you with the NSA? I need to go make a new tinfoil hat!
Great minds think alike :D

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby da Doctah » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:41 am UTC

Quicksilver wrote:I'm a cross between The Nihilist and The Sage.
I straddle the boundaries between The Conspiracist, The Exhibitionist, and The Sage; I post fake videos of myself in Utah eating juicy strawberry burritos just to foul the data.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby Antior » Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:05 am UTC

I'm none of those. My opinion is:

- Don't put anything online at all if you don't want others to see it. In other words, be careful.
- Do not support companies that have as core business model to gather people's personal data. Do not use Facebook, etc. If you can't live without social media, there's plenty of alternatives.
- Do try and get politicians to make laws that protect our online privacy.
- Do inform people what privacy means in a digital society and why it is still important.

And I do as I say. What does that make me? A pragmatist?

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby Hremsfeld » Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:06 am UTC

I'm actually very surprised by this, but only by what Randall is saying they believe.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby Primis » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:05 am UTC

On one hand, The NSA is stealing our data. On the other hand, the NSA is NOT stealing my burrito...
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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby glasnt » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:15 am UTC

I'm a burrito.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby addams » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:34 am UTC

glasnt wrote:I'm a burrito.

No you are not a burrito.
We have your data. We know what you are, where you are.......
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

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Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby BlitzGirl » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:43 am UTC

addams wrote:
glasnt wrote:I'm a burrito.

No you are not a burrito.
We have your data. We know what you are, where you are.......

And we know that you are really a taco.
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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby Bounty » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:07 am UTC

addams wrote:We have your data. We know what you are, where you are.......

Then can you PLEASE provide me with directions to wherever everyone is getting these burritos?

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby Djehutynakht » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:29 am UTC

Primis wrote:On one hand, The NSA is stealing our data. On the other hand, the NSA is NOT stealing my burrito...


Yet.

It's a slippery slope, my friend.


I'm a bit of a philosopher (with more of a mind towards "keep yer damn mitts off my stuff without proper channels) until either someone hands me a burrito or I begin craving a burrito.

I'm craving a burrito. NSA, if you get me one in the next 30 minutes, you can have all my data without my complaints.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby ruurdjan » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:30 am UTC

Antior wrote:I'm none of those. My opinion is:

- Don't put anything online at all if you don't want others to see it. In other words, be careful.
- Do not support companies that have as core business model to gather people's personal data. Do not use Facebook, etc. If you can't live without social media, there's plenty of alternatives.
- Do try and get politicians to make laws that protect our online privacy.
- Do inform people what privacy means in a digital society and why it is still important.

And I do as I say. What does that make me? A pragmatist?


Dutch?

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby Darekun » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:37 am UTC

What about "we need to stay away from the half-mirror society, other than that I'm fine"?

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby BlitzGirl » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:51 am UTC

Primis wrote:On one hand, The NSA is stealing our data. On the other hand, the NSA is NOT stealing my burrito...

What about the data about your burrito?
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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby orthogon » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:14 am UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:
Primis wrote:On one hand, The NSA is stealing our data. On the other hand, the NSA is NOT stealing my burrito...

What about the data about your burrito?

Dammit, if only I'd read this thread before I put my burrito preference in the public domain.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:22 am UTC

I'm everyone but the conspiracist and the exhibitionist.

I'm the philosopher if asked about privacy in a broad general context, and part of my philosophy involves the position that...

We really should just be encrypting everything as a matter of course. However I'm lazy, taking special precautions can just raises suspicions and can be easily circumvented by anyone I'd really be afraid of, and also...

I don't really have anything to hide. Not that "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about" makes a valid argument against surveillance at all, but to an extent it is a truism, and I really am quite a boring person with nothing much to hide. I mean, I have well-known anti-authoritarian philosophical positions that are even published on my website (and every forum I've been on back to the days of usenet) under my real name, but all of that is well obfuscated behind a boring and pacifying web of intellectualism. (And honestly, if some keyword match gets some NSA agent to read my philosophical works, that's probably a net plus for society).

And because of all that, at the end of the day, I'm more concerned about enjoying my burrito than I am about the NSA snooping pictures of my burrito from my nonexistent instagram feed.
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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby Xenomortis » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:27 am UTC

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby snowyowl » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:53 am UTC

Primis wrote:On one hand, The NSA is stealing our data.

It's not stealing if they made a copy and left the original. It's piracy. You mean the NSA is pirating our data.

(this post brought to you by the letter sarcasm)
The preceding comment is an automated response.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby sotanaht » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:17 am UTC

snowyowl wrote:
Primis wrote:On one hand, The NSA is stealing our data.

It's not stealing if they made a copy and left the original. It's piracy. You mean the NSA is pirating our data.

(this post brought to you by the letter sarcasm)


So I suppose Censorship is the equivalent of theft then?

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby PinkShinyRose » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:54 am UTC

sotanaht wrote:
snowyowl wrote:
Primis wrote:On one hand, The NSA is stealing our data.

It's not stealing if they made a copy and left the original. It's piracy. You mean the NSA is pirating our data.

(this post brought to you by the letter sarcasm)


So I suppose Censorship is the equivalent of theft then?

Or is it vandalism? They're removing the data, but not necessarily keeping the data themselves. Besides, which idiot starting to name copyright violation identically to (usually but not necessarily violently) stealing ships at sea by entering from another vessel?
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Antior wrote:What does that make me? A pragmatist?


Dutch?

I think any European non-Russian nationality would suffice for this, although Germans and Eastern Europeans may not need to convince their national politicians about not wanting to be spied upon.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby uncleroy » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:58 am UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:
Primis wrote:On one hand, The NSA is stealing our data. On the other hand, the NSA is NOT stealing my burrito...

What about the data about your burrito?


I never meta-burrito I didn't like.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby jeszjesz » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:05 am UTC

Of course beret guy meant data are imaginary, not data is imaginary. Grammar, grammar über alles...
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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby orthogon » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:35 am UTC

jeszjesz wrote:Of course beret guy meant data are imaginary, not data is imaginary. Grammar, grammar über alles...

The OED wrote:The use of data as a mass noun ... in computing contexts ... is now considered standard.

Their first citation of its use as a mass noun is from 1702: "And by this Data there are twelve Problems resolved."
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby Colin Fiat » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:57 am UTC

What is the opposite of the Nihilist? Perhaps a 'Disinformationist?'

I've created such an elaborate fictional online persona that I have received advertizements and other junk addressed to Colin Fiat by snail mail. None have caught up with me since moving house so perhaps I should redouble my efforts.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby Graham Finch » Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:16 am UTC

Reading this comic made me realize something disturbing...

The Internet is suffering from a severe lack of Exhibitionists.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby Kit. » Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:37 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:I'm everyone but the conspiracist and the exhibitionist.

I'm probably "everyone".

Not sure about the conspiracist part, but when you feel that those leaks haven't told you anything new about the subject they were supposed to tell, what else would you call it? (No, I don't break any NDA saying it)

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby pkcommando » Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:37 am UTC

Graham Finch wrote:Reading this comic made me realize something disturbing...

The Internet is suffering from a severe lack of Exhibitionists.

You are clearly not using the Internet properly.

Oh wait - you meant like the individual in the comic? Yeah, we could use more of that kind.
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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby jc » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:07 pm UTC

Darekun wrote:What about "we need to stay away from the half-mirror society, other than that I'm fine"?

Hmmm ... I didn't know that phrase, so of course I googled it. Turns out that "half-mirror society" (with the quotes) gets only one google hit, and it's this xkcd forum page. Look quickly, because in a few more hours there will be more than one. Maybe this message will produce the second hit ...

... [edit] Nope, it didn't. Oh, well maybe someone else will quote the above and put it on another page. Maybe they'll even have a definition.
Last edited by jc on Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:36 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby tuseroni » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:30 pm UTC

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby Carteeg_Struve » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:32 pm UTC

I wonder where most of the people who work for the NSA gathering and sorting this intel land on this chart.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby jc » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:33 pm UTC

Graham Finch wrote:Reading this comic made me realize something disturbing...

The Internet is suffering from a severe lack of Exhibitionists.


Nah; we're all over the internet; we just don't advertise the fact. The reason is that it's too obvious: The main value of the internet is as a tool to make chunks of our data available to anyone who's interested. The fact that our online data is easy for those not interrested to ignore is also of value. These two properties of online data are huge improvements over previous ways of distributing our data. We no longer have to produce multiple printed copies, mail them out, maintain lists of recipients, etc. We can easily find the data of people that we've never heard of, if they use common keywords so the search sites can index them for us. And we don't need to "spam" disinterested parties to get our data out.

All this can be classified as "exhibitionism" in the general sense. I have some data about subject X that I've discovered/created/pirated/whatever, and I'd like to show it to anyone else who'd interested in X. I just put it all on a web site, within hours the search sites discover it, and thereafter anyone in the world (with internet access) can see it. It's pure exhibitionism, in a fast a cheap form.

Take my avatar, as a simple example: She has a "punk" look different from her usual sleek look because I took her picture just after she'd had a bath, and her feathers are soaked. So I'm advertising a part my home life by posting pictures of a pretty girl just out of the bathtub, right? She doesn't object at all. Sounds like exhibitionism to me.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby cellocgw » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:42 pm UTC

Quicksilver wrote:
Goggalor wrote:
Quicksilver wrote:I'm a cross between The Nihilist and The Sage.

I came here to say the exact same thing.

Wait, were you reading my mind? Are you with the NSA? I need to go make a new tinfoil hat!
Great Geek minds think alike :D


FTFY :mrgreen:
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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby cellocgw » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:44 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:
addams wrote:
glasnt wrote:I'm a burrito.

No you are not a burrito.
We have your data. We know what you are, where you are.......

And we know that you are really a taco.


ummm, a Commander Taco? :twisted:
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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby cellocgw » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:48 pm UTC

Graham Finch wrote:Reading this comic made me realize something disturbing...

The Internet is suffering from a severe lack of Exhibitionists.


You're looking at the wrong web sites
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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby wumpus » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:02 pm UTC

Antior wrote:I'm none of those. My opinion is:

- Don't put anything online at all if you don't want others to see it. In other words, be careful.
- Do not support companies that have as core business model to gather people's personal data. Do not use Facebook, etc. If you can't live without social media, there's plenty of alternatives.
- Do try and get politicians to make laws that protect our online privacy.
- Do inform people what privacy means in a digital society and why it is still important.

And I do as I say. What does that make me? A pragmatist?


I think more than a few people have been surprised at how little they can change the fact that "anything on any computer" == "online".
"inform people": I am curious as to how many people get the fact that the privacy options that they are told about do nothing and the privacy options they are discouraged from using (typically involving open-source encryption) have a slight chance of working.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby Klear » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:19 pm UTC

jc wrote:
Darekun wrote:What about "we need to stay away from the half-mirror society, other than that I'm fine"?

Hmmm ... I didn't know that phrase, so of course I googled it. Turns out that "half-mirror society" (with the quotes) gets only one google hit, and it's this xkcd forum page. Look quickly, because in a few more hours there will be more than one. Maybe this message will produce the second hit ...

... [edit] Nope, it didn't. Oh, well maybe someone else will quote the above and put it on another page. Maybe they'll even have a definition.


There are two hits now, plus 15 more "omitted results".

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby Actaeus » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:27 pm UTC

Antior wrote:- Don't put anything online at all if you don't want others to see it. In other words, be careful.



This isn't practical.

I'm a member of certain online communities dedicated to certain practices that certain large numbers of people don't think highly of. Nothing unethical or illegal (in most states), but that's never stopped anybody from judging, has it?

If somebody tries to blackmail me, I'll call their bluff. But if I'm working in a conservative part of the country when that happens, it could easily mean my job.

The Internet is a major organizational tool for a huge variety of similar sorts of groups, going back to the BBS days. "Don't put anything online at all if you don't want others to see it" would mean giving up tools they've relied on for decades (and with phone calls increasingly part of the Internet, and increasingly monitored, really over a century). Nobody wants to do that.

I'm honestly very worried about anti-anonymity proposals.


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