1269: "Privacy Opinions"

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DougDean
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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby DougDean » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:31 pm UTC

"Data is imaginary. This brrrito is real"
"Are you sure?"
"Go away, Mr. Philosopher! You already had your panel!"

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:37 pm UTC

My view is that I take sufficient minor precautions to avoid the wrong people stumbling across something I wouldn't want them to know and identifying it as me, and keep casual investigation from making the same connections.

If someone with the knowledge and resources cares enough to dig deep enough to make those connections, then what they find isn't going to pay off their efforts - sure, if I were running for national government, I'd expect to have to answer questions about certain things, but until then, anyone finding out interesting things about me can find out equally (or more) interesting things about lots of other people with less effort...

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby richP » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:04 pm UTC

SomeoneSomewhere wrote:Sometime I'll put a 15GB (or slightly less so I have room for a little other stuff) TrueCrypt file on Google Docs called '9/11 Repeat Plans' and let them spend a while cracking it... The contents will be a text file with 'I hope you didn't expect that processing time back' in it.

I'm probably somewhere between the crypto nut (who can't really be bothered doing anything) and a mild conspiracist.


You're not much of a conspiracist if you believe da guberment is interested in a file relating to 9/11. A true tin-foil hatter would put up files called something like "emails from my buddy the NSA janitor" and "map to my secret meeting spot with the Guardian reporter".

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby davidstarlingm » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:04 pm UTC

jeszjesz wrote:Of course beret guy meant data are imaginary, not data is imaginary. Grammar, grammar über alles...

Descriptive grammars plz.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby Whizbang » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:08 pm UTC

Jokes on them. As if I do anything other than hang out on XKCD forum and play Cookie Clicker all day.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby Kit. » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:13 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:If someone with the knowledge and resources cares enough to dig deep enough to make those connections, then what they find isn't going to pay off their efforts

Not really. Your connections are just a byproduct of their efforts of fishing for bigger fish. They virtually get you for free.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby Whizbang » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:25 pm UTC

Maybe I am naive, but the way I see it is that there is so much information being collected about so many people, that I am lost in the sea of information. Yes, there can be flags that would raise a person out of the sea of shlubs for whatever reason (ciminal activity, lots of money, political stuff), but I'm just one shlub out of billions, doing what every other shlub is doing, more or less. My anonymity is my sameness. Processing the butt-loads of data requires computers. I don't care if a computer sees my stuff. I care about people seeing my stuff. If someone wanted to know about me specifically, there'd be tons of useful information, but why would anyone (who has access to the collected data) want to know about me specifically?

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby Poindexter » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:27 pm UTC

I'm the Philosopher until someone hands me a burrito.
QFT

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby BigglesPiP » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:31 pm UTC

The Storage Industry Engineer (me): "I think the NSA should just store every byte transmitted and received by everyone."

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby cjmcjmcjmcjm » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:37 pm UTC

BigglesPiP wrote:The Storage Industry Engineer (me): "I think the NSA should just store every byte transmitted and received by everyone."

Pragmatic, aren't you?

Who wants to analyse this? Spigot is clearly the sage in this one, with slight conspiracy theorist leanings.
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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby orthogon » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:38 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:
addams wrote:
glasnt wrote:I'm a burrito.

No you are not a burrito.
We have your data. We know what you are, where you are.......

And we know that you are really a taco.

Were you guys / y'all deliberately trying to write a limerick, or do you always speak in anapests?

Putting the bits together, the best I can come up with is this, which requires the rather audacious assumption that glasnt is the online alias of Wolverhampton Wanderers player Bakary Sako. That, and a pronunciation of the word data that will cause jeszjesz physical pain :

"I'm a burrito" said Sako,
Said Google "you're not; that's just wacko!
We have your da-tah
We know where you are
And we know that you're really a taco."
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby cellocgw » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:41 pm UTC

Whizbang wrote:Jokes on them. As if I do anything other than hang out on XKCD forum and play Cookie Clicker all day.


The NSA knows that "XKCD" stands for Xenophiless, Klansmen, Commies, and Democrats. You're soooo busted.
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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby spoonyspork » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:42 pm UTC

I'm somewhere between the last three panels (not gunna eat strawberries in a sexy way for all to see, but I *may* eat a burrito while searching for some really weird combinations of things, etc)

However, I've recently picked up a little of the conspiracist. My mom was given a computer from work - a company she's worked for for more than 20 years now - and rather than format/reload it, she deleted all patient info (medical industry) and kept using it as it was. Turns out her boss has been using it to snoop around on her. Particularly, her check ledger. Now, this is technically only 'metadata' -- just a list of transactions. However, she likes to go out a lot -- to the casino, concerts, etc... and whenever she buys anything from one, she just notes 'bar' in the ledger. So it looks like she has lots and lots of transactions at a bar. What made her pick up on his snooping was right after she took the computer home, he started asking her how much she drinks, how many bars she goes to a night, etc... and then started making her take note of *every cent* they had/used in petty cash, suddenly after 20 years.

Now, my mom is one of the most *boring* people ever -- at least, these days. Her computer is used for nothing but looking up football stats, emailing family, and her check ledger. She plays slots and bingo on the weekend... your typical boring almost 60 year old person in not the best health. If she wants beer she buys it from a store, not a bar. One snoop on an out of context document and the person in charge of handling all the money in the office is now labeled a bar-hooping floozy. A little math to see that her transactions don't add up to her salary (she has outside sources of income that only the IRS need know about and her boss has no business with) and she's a *money stealing* bar-hopping floozy. And this is only one guy in a 5-person company. It somewhat worries me what government-wide out of context things brings up. Really... who cares about me? But if they *wanted* to care, what would all those weird searches say?

(I've removed any obvious ways of getting into the computer remotely until I get time to format it, and just in case I've planted documents all over the place with links to the wikipedia page on different computer fraud laws. She's also back to a hand-written ledger. I'm no crypto-nut so that's the best I can do)

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby cellocgw » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:44 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:
addams wrote:
glasnt wrote:I'm a burrito.

No you are not a burrito.
We have your data. We know what you are, where you are.......

And we know that you are really a taco.

Were you guys / y'all deliberately trying to write a limerick, or do you always speak in anapests?

Putting the bits together, the best I can come up with is this, which requires the rather audacious assumption that glasnt is the online alias of Wolverhampton Wanderers player Bakary Sako. That, and a pronunciation of the word data that will cause jeszjesz physical pain :

"I'm a burrito" said Sako,
Said Google "you're not; that's just wacko!
We have your da-tah
We know where you are
And we know that you're really a taco."


Or you could replace Mr. W.W. with a river in New Hampshire
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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby strix99 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:45 pm UTC

rhomboidal wrote:I'm the Philosopher until someone hands me a burrito.


Then he inexplicably turns in the the exhibitionist, rubs that burrito all over, then poses with it in the shower. New domain soggyburritos.com

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby addams » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:55 pm UTC

tuseroni wrote:where does this guy fit?
http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/co ... to/caeb3pl

I don't know.
A frightened, lonely and sad realist.
I can relate.

For me it started with standing in a circle holding hands and singing, "Study war, No More, No More."
The author's story and my story have parallels. Is that fiction? My story is not fiction.

I was being dull and unimportant as usual. I saw the black and whites watching me read the Pat Act.
I thought they were watching me until interesting people arrived. (shrug)

It seems when an agency has a lot of money to spend and very little to spend it on......well?
Security? Do you feel safe? Did we get our moneys worth?

Paranoid? Nope. I miss my innocent days of being a sage.
Now I am a boring philosopher.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby kps » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:08 pm UTC

I'm just happy that the NSA still model their systems after SAGE operator consoles.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby San Fran Sam » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:13 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:
addams wrote:
glasnt wrote:I'm a burrito.

No you are not a burrito.
We have your data. We know what you are, where you are.......

And we know that you are really a taco.


ce n'est pas un burrito.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby harry.lime » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:17 pm UTC

If privacy is impossible, meaningless, or any other definitive possibility:


why is it asymmetric?


The power is in the asymmetry. Power and money tend to cooperate in running the world. Airbus is not so nonchalant after the NSA trumped their winning bid to Saudi Arabia and gave billions to Boeing. Enemy of the state is a broad category for anyone who wishes to step outside the stable middle by more frequently exerting control instead of submitting to chaos.

The whole hubub is ultimately not about privacy, or at least it shouldn't be. We're not ready yet as a society to talk of which we know, there is some growing up to do.

Should the internet balkanize along national lines, and what would that look like? This is reminiscent of rolling out the telegraph networks.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby Kit. » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:29 pm UTC

Whizbang wrote:Maybe I am naive, but the way I see it is that there is so much information being collected about so many people, that I am lost in the sea of information. Yes, there can be flags that would raise a person out of the sea of shlubs for whatever reason (ciminal activity, lots of money, political stuff), but I'm just one shlub out of billions, doing what every other shlub is doing, more or less. My anonymity is my sameness. Processing the butt-loads of data requires computers. I don't care if a computer sees my stuff. I care about people seeing my stuff. If someone wanted to know about me specifically, there'd be tons of useful information, but why would anyone (who has access to the collected data) want to know about me specifically?

The more patterns are analyzed, the more false positives the "computer" produces, the more chances that some people would want to know about you specifically.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby scalziand » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:45 pm UTC

I accidently the whole iceberg.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby SerMufasa » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:47 pm UTC

I got nothin'
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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby Роберт » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm UTC

Antior wrote:I'm none of those. My opinion is:

- Don't put anything online at all if you don't want others to see it. In other words, be careful.
- Do not support companies that have as core business model to gather people's personal data. Do not use Facebook, etc. If you can't live without social media, there's plenty of alternatives.
- Do try and get politicians to make laws that protect our online privacy.
- Do inform people what privacy means in a digital society and why it is still important.

And I do as I say. What does that make me? A pragmatist?

No. That's not practical. E-mail is a huge communication, as are moblie phones. They are not exempt from privacy issue, and a pragmatist wouldn't forgo using them just because of privacy concerns. I don't know why you think this is only about social media. Duh public twitter posts are public. Duh posts visible to friends of friends when you have more than 10 Facebook friends are essentially public. There's a lot of stuff that isn't essentially public that is a concern here.
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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby warspite » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:03 pm UTC

I confess I've never heard an argument like that of The Philosopher. If anyone has any relevant literature/publications/MeFi postings/&c, I'd be much obliged for some links.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby thesingingaccountant » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:06 pm UTC

I could see myself embracing any of the given opinions except that of the crypto-nut (which is one of the many reasons why I chose the guy I did to be my husband). Which opinion I might hold on any given day depends largely on the mood I'm in, but you'll probably hear from the philosopher a bit less frequently than the others (which will appear in roughly equal proportions).
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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby koreiryuu » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:22 pm UTC

In general, not that I'm as depressing as she is, but I'm definitely the Nihilist.
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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby StClair » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:29 pm UTC

jeszjesz wrote:Of course beret guy meant data are imaginary, not data is imaginary. Grammar, grammar über alles...


Data, being a fictional character, is imaginary.
That he has been portrayed in live action by an actor does not change this.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby cellocgw » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:42 pm UTC

StClair wrote:
jeszjesz wrote:Of course beret guy meant data are imaginary, not data is imaginary. Grammar, grammar über alles...


Data, being a fictional character, is imaginary.
That he has been portrayed in live action by an actor does not change this.


I think he's rather complex, actually.
Besides, you can't prove he's fictional until we get to StarDate (whatever) and he's not there.
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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby da Doctah » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:52 pm UTC

StClair wrote:
jeszjesz wrote:Of course beret guy meant data are imaginary, not data is imaginary. Grammar, grammar über alles...


Data, being a fictional character, is imaginary.
That he has been portrayed in live action by an actor does not change this.


Data is the plural of datum, the neuter form of the participle of the verb dare=to give.

Data, therefore, means givens.

Robin Givens is a non-fictional person who was once married to Mike Tyson.

Next topic?

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby fung0 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:21 pm UTC

The strip is clearly missing a few boxes. For example:

The Citizen:
“Wholesale Internet spying is unconstitutional, and government officials have committed massive crimes by lying about it.”

The Businessman:
“Government backdoors in US cloud systems are going to cost my company billions of dollars, and throw a lot of Americans out of work.”

The Foreigner:
“Tell me again what gives the US the right to spy on our country, including looking into our corporate systems in obvious pursuit of commercial advantage?”

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby ThemePark » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:29 pm UTC

San Fran Sam wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:
addams wrote:
glasnt wrote:I'm a burrito.

No you are not a burrito.
We have your data. We know what you are, where you are.......

And we know that you are really a taco.


ce n'est pas un burrito.

It's a pibe shaped like a burrito.
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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby orthogon » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:36 pm UTC

da Doctah wrote:
StClair wrote:
jeszjesz wrote:Of course beret guy meant data are imaginary, not data is imaginary. Grammar, grammar über alles...


Data, being a fictional character, is imaginary.
That he has been portrayed in live action by an actor does not change this.


Data is the plural of datum, the neuter form of the participle of the verb dare=to give.

Data, therefore, means givens.

Robin Givens is a non-fictional person who was once married to Mike Tyson.

Next topic?

Er... Who dares wins? What was the question again?
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby Darkhand » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:01 pm UTC

I really want to read the philospher's entire opinion that gets cut off in the first panel. Randall says he's the philosopher, after all.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby Klear » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:22 pm UTC

da Doctah wrote:
StClair wrote:
jeszjesz wrote:Of course beret guy meant data are imaginary, not data is imaginary. Grammar, grammar über alles...


Data, being a fictional character, is imaginary.
That he has been portrayed in live action by an actor does not change this.


Data is the plural of datum, the neuter form of the participle of the verb dare=to give.

Data, therefore, means givens.

Robin Givens is a non-fictional person who was once married to Mike Tyson.

Next topic?


I'll just take this opportunity to share my favourite piece of etymology: anecdote is "an-" = "not", + "ek-" "out", + "didonai", from the same root as "dare" and "datum", = "to give". Together it means "unpublished", or something that is only circulating orally. If you publish a collection of anecdotes, you create a paradox. (edit: Or rather, it is impossible to publish)

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby Plasma Man » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:28 pm UTC

So if they're published, do they become ecdotes?

I've posted on the subject of privacy elsewhere on the fora, but I basically operate a nihilist / crypto nut split. Anything I don't mind being traceable back to me, I don't take any real precautions to prevent snooping, but it's probably not that interesting anyway. Anything that I don't want to be traced back to me (nothing illegal, just stuff that wouldn't look good to my mother / a prospective employer / whoever), I do my best to keep private.
Please note that despite the lovely avatar Sungura gave me, I am not a medical doctor.

Possibly my proudest moment on the fora.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby madaco » Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:26 am UTC

But the burrito isn't real, its in a comic!

The person in panel six was wrong!
I found my old forum signature to be awkward, so I'm changing it to this until I pick a better one.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby rmsgrey » Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:41 am UTC

Kit. wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:If someone with the knowledge and resources cares enough to dig deep enough to make those connections, then what they find isn't going to pay off their efforts

Not really. Your connections are just a byproduct of their efforts of fishing for bigger fish. They virtually get you for free.


Okay, the people who are looking for something that's worth finding may have a computer with those connections on, but then it's only as part of a list of millions, so I'm still not worried about it.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby BlitzGirl » Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:42 am UTC

madaco wrote:But the burrito isn't real, its in a comic!

The person in panel six was wrong!

We're all in a comic.

No burrito is safe.
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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby Quicksilver » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:19 am UTC

orthogon wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:
addams wrote:
glasnt wrote:I'm a burrito.

No you are not a burrito.
We have your data. We know what you are, where you are.......

And we know that you are really a taco.

Were you guys / y'all deliberately trying to write a limerick, or do you always speak in anapests?

Putting the bits together, the best I can come up with is this, which requires the rather audacious assumption that glasnt is the online alias of Wolverhampton Wanderers player Bakary Sako. That, and a pronunciation of the word data that will cause jeszjesz physical pain :

"I'm a burrito" said Sako,
Said Google "you're not; that's just wacko!
We have your da-tah
We know where you are
And we know that you're really a taco."
It's more like:
No John. You are the burrito.
And then John was a taco.

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Re: 1269: "Privacy Opinions"

Postby addams » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:28 am UTC

rmsgrey wrote:
Kit. wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:If someone with the knowledge and resources cares enough to dig deep enough to make those connections, then what they find isn't going to pay off their efforts

Not really. Your connections are just a byproduct of their efforts of fishing for bigger fish. They virtually get you for free.


Okay, the people who are looking for something that's worth finding may have a computer with those connections on, but then it's only as part of a list of millions, so I'm still not worried about it.

It is good that you are not worried. Worry will not help if someone wants to make your life difficult.
It is good that you are not worried. Worry does no good.

The digital information is only an addition to what was already going on. Right?
Nothing new under the sun. All the zeros and ones in the world mean nothing, if that intel is not backed up with Meat Bags.

No machine ever orders weird stuff. That is the Meat Bags.
What are the Meat Bags you love doing, tonight?

Don't worry. You have not read nor said anything some SomeBody did not like. Did you?
Not like Some of us. Very few of those left. Where do you think they went? (shrug)

Who is next in line for their fifteen minutes of Fame? You? Do you want to try it?
Twenty-one hours speaking against a congressional bill your party sponsored will do it. You?
Do you want to try it?
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.


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