1272: "Shadowfacts"

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1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby rwald » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:07 am UTC

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Title text: 'Look to my coming on the fifth day. At dawn, look to the east.' 'And look to the west to see our shadows!'

Congratulations, you have subscribed to Shadowfacts! Text "stop" to stop.

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby rhomboidal » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:13 am UTC

After Mister Ed and ShadowFacts, talking horses aren't quite as magical as I imagined. (Though, apparently, ponies are to some people.)

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby sehkzychic » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:24 am UTC

"Look to the west to see our shadows"? Assuming there's any appreciable distance between the hobbits and Shadowfacts (i.e., he hasn't already gotten to them), wouldn't the hobbits still have to look to the east to see Shadowfacts's shadow? It would just be between Shadowfacts and the hobbits. Unless maybe the vertical displacement between the horse and observer is sufficient that the observers are in the shadow of the landform that Shadowfacts is standing on....

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby The Chosen One » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:49 am UTC

Well, if this whole exchange takes place at dawn, their shadows should be pretty long, and if they have an advantage in elevation (like appearing over a ridge or something, though I don't know how it went down in the relevant scene) their shadows may appear to the west, at least in the time it takes for the group to turn around to check.
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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby humanalien » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:51 am UTC

For those who are confused:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadowfax

http://www.jessrules.com/jesswiki/view? ... hadowFacts

Warning: you may not be less confused now.
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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby StClair » Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:24 am UTC

The Fact Horse is the most intelligent of all horses and is never wrong.

Wait, no... that's not a fact about shadows...

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby glasnt » Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:39 am UTC

And Frodo looked upon the ring, and saw words burned into it's face.

And Gandalf translated them. "You have been subscribed to ShadowFacts! Drop ring in Mount Doom to stop."

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby willpellmn » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:01 am UTC

Okay, a pretty dumb comic today, but an excuse for Randal to have fun drawing a nice picture of Gandalf and a horse. I'll take that trade quite happily. :mrgreen:

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby nix78 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:26 am UTC

...and there's Shadowfacts-dot-tumblr-dot-com* ("Facts with Shadowfax") to make things a little more complicated.

*I'm new here so I haven't yet figured out how *not* to look like spam when posting Tumblr links. :]

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby da Doctah » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:40 am UTC

Not that there's anything wrong with the actual shadow fact this "lord of all horses" has chosen to lead off with, but it only works in a handful of languages (and is accordingly of limited utility), plus it's the kind of thing you'd want to lead up to. Once you've defined "penumbra", where do you go next?

My fave shadow fact: if you ever see a full-circular rainbow, such as from an airplane when the rainbow appears below you, at the geometric center of that circle will be the shadow of your own head.

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby orthogon » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:50 am UTC

StClair wrote:The Fact Horse is the most intelligent of all horses and is never wrong.

You mean it's a CorrectHorse?
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby Aziz » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:51 am UTC

One of the meanings of the word shadow is "a very small amount of something" according to Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary.
I wonder if that suggests a different meaning\interpretation to Shadowsfacts's name.
Last edited by Aziz on Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:39 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby Flumble » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:15 am UTC

After a rough night a comic with simple humour is greatly welcomed. :)

rhomboidal wrote:After Mister Ed and ShadowFacts, talking horses aren't quite as magical as I imagined. (Though, apparently, ponies are to some people.)

I see what you did there.I just wanted to quote the joke

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby Klear » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:28 am UTC

Damn associations. I just briefly thought that Gandalf's horse is amazing and ... damn!

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby n079614 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:58 am UTC

Gimli is missing his beard.

I call shenanigans!

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby Plutarch » Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:50 am UTC

da Doctah wrote:Not that there's anything wrong with the actual shadow fact this "lord of all horses" has chosen to lead off with, but it only works in a handful of languages (and is accordingly of limited utility), plus it's the kind of thing you'd want to lead up to. Once you've defined "penumbra", where do you go next?


I agree that 'penumbra' is a big shadow fact you'd want to lead up to, rather than start off with. Even so, there's a lot of mileage left. If the horse starts talking about 'shadow' in the sense of 'following someone' it could tell us a lot about spying. And then there's shadows on X-rays which could lead to a lot of medical facts.

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby bilkie » Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:06 am UTC

Plutarch wrote:I agree that 'penumbra' is a big shadow fact you'd want to lead up to, rather than start off with. Even so, there's a lot of mileage left. If the horse starts talking about 'shadow' in the sense of 'following someone' it could tell us a lot about spying. And then there's shadows on X-rays which could lead to a lot of medical facts.


and then there's shadows on facsimiles, if you don't shut the lid on the scanner.

Spoiler:
so, like, Shadowfax. . you didn't really have to click this button.

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby cellocgw » Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:17 pm UTC

Gee, I would've thought by now that a certain Ms. B...G... would have showed up with her

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby BlitzGirl » Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:29 pm UTC

I considered bringing the VITSSÅGEN, JA! but I was appeased by the spoiler. I have a soft spot for redundant spoilers. :)

(Also, I try not to punsaw those of the Otherthreads. They have not had a chance to learn any better.)
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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby Jackpot777 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:59 pm UTC

On the bright side: at least it isn't Cat Facts.

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby KarenRei » Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:34 pm UTC

Of course, "fax" simply means "mane" in Icelandic, and Tolkein spoke Icelandic and Old Norse, so I'm pretty sure that's where he got it from. A common name for horses here in Iceland is "faxi" - and the name is sometimes used jokingly, like as the nickname for the coach of the Swedish handball team in 2012 due to his "mane".

But knowing that didn't stop me from giggling at this comic. ;)

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby cellocgw » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:14 pm UTC

KarenRei wrote:Of course, "fax" simply means "mane" in Icelandic, and Tolkein spoke Icelandic and Old Norse, so I'm pretty sure that's where he got it from. A common name for horses here in Iceland is "faxi" - and the name is sometimes used jokingly, like as the nickname for the coach of the Swedish handball team in 2012 due to his "mane".

But knowing that didn't stop me from giggling at this comic. ;)


Yeah, but what does "shadow" mean in Icelandic? :mrgreen:
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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby Moose Anus » Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:18 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:
KarenRei wrote:Of course, "fax" simply means "mane" in Icelandic, and Tolkein spoke Icelandic and Old Norse, so I'm pretty sure that's where he got it from. A common name for horses here in Iceland is "faxi" - and the name is sometimes used jokingly, like as the nickname for the coach of the Swedish handball team in 2012 due to his "mane".

But knowing that didn't stop me from giggling at this comic. ;)


Yeah, but what does "shadow" mean in Icelandic? :mrgreen:

That's an English word. Tolkien meant that the horse was shaved daily and it would get 5 o'clock shadow on the back of its neck.
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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby orthogon » Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:40 pm UTC

Come to think of it, even if a horse is always correct, you can't really describe it as a "correct horse". The word correct has a different meaning when used before the noun. A trainee vet should always make sure (s)he shoots the correct horse.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby Red Hal » Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:54 pm UTC

Shadowfax - in the movie of his story - was played by "Blanco".
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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby KarenRei » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:03 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:
KarenRei wrote:Of course, "fax" simply means "mane" in Icelandic, and Tolkein spoke Icelandic and Old Norse, so I'm pretty sure that's where he got it from. A common name for horses here in Iceland is "faxi" - and the name is sometimes used jokingly, like as the nickname for the coach of the Swedish handball team in 2012 due to his "mane".

But knowing that didn't stop me from giggling at this comic. ;)


Yeah, but what does "shadow" mean in Icelandic? :mrgreen:


Standard writing issue, you need to strike a balance between "sounding exotic" and "alienating your readers". If he wanted to go full Icelandic it would have been Skuggafax or Skuggafaxi.

Heck, it's not just about books. For example, in Avatar, in the original concepts, the Na'vi were originally more catlike and less humanoid, and spoke their own language more. But they were changed because of concerns that the audience wouldn't identify with them enough.
Last edited by KarenRei on Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:14 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby KarenRei » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:06 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:Come to think of it, even if a horse is always correct, you can't really describe it as a "correct horse". The word correct has a different meaning when used before the noun. A trainee vet should always make sure (s)he shoots the correct horse.


But then how do you explain that a correct horse battery staple involves the horse being correct?

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby orthogon » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:34 pm UTC

KarenRei wrote:
orthogon wrote:Come to think of it, even if a horse is always correct, you can't really describe it as a "correct horse". The word correct has a different meaning when used before the noun. A trainee vet should always make sure (s)he shoots the correct horse.


But then how do you explain that a correct horse battery staple involves the horse being correct?

I can't. But "correct horse battery staple" isn't really grammatical anyway. If we parse it as (correct horse) (battery staple), it's not clear how the two NPs relate. It could be improved by adding punctuation, e.g.
Correct, horse: battery staple.

Edit: Or if I'm wrong about "correct":
Correct horse: "battery staple"

The punctuation would make the password stronger, too.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby sporkorama » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:37 pm UTC

Thank you for subscribing to ShadowFacts. To unsubscribe, speak, friend, and enter.

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby Kit. » Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:24 pm UTC

KarenRei wrote:
orthogon wrote:Come to think of it, even if a horse is always correct, you can't really describe it as a "correct horse". The word correct has a different meaning when used before the noun. A trainee vet should always make sure (s)he shoots the correct horse.


But then how do you explain that a correct horse battery staple involves the horse being correct?

It doesn't. It involves the staple being correct. And a horse battery without correct staples isn't going to be of much use.

Spoiler:
As to the original comic, we are getting those facts straight from the horse's mouth, so they ought to be correct.

Which makes me wonder....

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby cjmcjmcjmcjm » Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:20 pm UTC

Hourly shadow facts
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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby Coyoty » Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:56 pm UTC

"The shadow of Mordor threatens all of Middle Earth..."
"I said shut-- um, well, okay..."

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:14 pm UTC

I think the only horse more annoying would be racist Mr. Ed from the Chappel Show's racist animals of Hollywood sketch. I'd meet some people from far off lands, it would say something inappropriate, and I'd have to apologize for my racist horse.

Or maybe just hit it and say "quite you!" But if the horse can talk, doesn't that make it sapient? And if it's mine, wouldn't I have a special duty to it's well being (even if it's a terrible person - err horse) beyond those it offends? Is possessing any sapient creature tantamount to slavery, or would its different social instincts and objective mental short comings make it non-analogous?

I'm probably over-thinking this; what was the original question?

Also in the way of facts about shadows: couldn't one go into the double slit experiment by discussing the occluded areas?
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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby naroom » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:50 pm UTC

In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie!

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:55 pm UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:But if the horse can talk, doesn't that make it sapient? And if it's mine, wouldn't I have a special duty to it's well being (even if it's a terrible person - err horse)

"Person" doesn't mean human. If your horse is sapient, it's a person, just a nonhuman one.
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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby Klear » Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:05 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:
Quizatzhaderac wrote:But if the horse can talk, doesn't that make it sapient? And if it's mine, wouldn't I have a special duty to it's well being (even if it's a terrible person - err horse)

"Person" doesn't mean human. If your horse is sapient, it's a person, just a nonhuman one.


Prove that my friend Catherine is not sapient.

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:11 pm UTC

Klear wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:
Quizatzhaderac wrote:But if the horse can talk, doesn't that make it sapient? And if it's mine, wouldn't I have a special duty to it's well being (even if it's a terrible person - err horse)

"Person" doesn't mean human. If your horse is sapient, it's a person, just a nonhuman one.


Prove that my friend Catherine is not sapient.

That's beside the point entirely. I wasn't weighing in on the question of whether his horse was sapient, but on his "correction" of "person" to "horse" with respect to the hypothetical sapient horse, as if the latter was more correct than the former. A sapient horse would be both a horse and a person, just not a human. Proving whether the horse is sapient (and thus a person) or not is another matter entirely. Likewise your cat. But if your cat is sapient, it's a person, just not a human.
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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby Klear » Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:17 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:
Klear wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:
Quizatzhaderac wrote:But if the horse can talk, doesn't that make it sapient? And if it's mine, wouldn't I have a special duty to it's well being (even if it's a terrible person - err horse)

"Person" doesn't mean human. If your horse is sapient, it's a person, just a nonhuman one.


Prove that my friend Catherine is not sapient.

That's beside the point entirely. I wasn't weighing in on the question of whether his horse was sapient, but on his "correction" of "person" to "horse" with respect to the hypothetical sapient horse, as if the latter was more correct than the former. A sapient horse would be both a horse and a person, just not a human. Proving whether the horse is sapient (and thus a person) or not is another matter entirely. Likewise your cat. But if your cat is sapient, it's a person, just not a human.


Yeah, I guess it is besides the point, but I still maintain that an animal can be sapient without being a person. That is, personhood is not something defined by sapience, but rather by what the human society deems to be equal to us.

But anyway, you'll have to excuse me. I need to save my 1024th post for something other than a drunk post.

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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby Pfhorrest » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:49 am UTC

Wouldn't that mean that back in the day when black people were not considered people, they really weren't people? That's up there with saying that when someone's rights aren't respected they cease to have those rights. It makes it a meaningless concept. The point of the concept of personhood (and rights, which is closely related) is not to describe how society does treat someone but to prescribe what kind of treatment they deserve.
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Re: 1272: "Shadowfacts"

Postby ahammel » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:56 am UTC

orthogon wrote:The punctuation would make the password stronger, too.
Nope. Not if the attacker knows you use that strategy. I suppose it might add a bit or two when there are two alternative ways to punctuate.
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