1290: "Syllable Planning"

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1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby xymostech » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:12 am UTC

Image

Alt text: "You absolute-fucking... shit."

I fuck-fucking-ing love in-fucking-fixes.

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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby rhomboidal » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:14 am UTC

"Baby, you're ALWAYS 'inserting fucking' too late..."

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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby BlitzGirl » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:41 am UTC

rhomboidal wrote:"Baby, you're ALWAYS 'inserting fucking' too late..."

That's what SHE said!
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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby bitwiseshiftleft » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:59 am UTC

Prosody, shmosody—
Foul-mouthed phonologists
Ought to learn how to act
More like adults:
"Expletive infix" be-
longs in the Journal of
Irreproducible
Fucking Results
.

-- Aaron Dinkin

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Re: 100 comics since 1190

Postby Eternal Density » Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:00 am UTC

SFW version:
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(well given the way my co-workers usually talk, the original would fit in fine here :()
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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby jalohones » Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:14 am UTC

"You absolute fucking shit" works just fine.

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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby Arancaytar » Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:23 am UTC

Hm... "ridi-fucking-culous". Nope, doesn't work.

"ridic-fucking-ulous"? Worse, and also contains "dick-fucking".

As a rule for four-syllable words, I'd say this only works if they're a double-fucking-trochee.

(Huh. robot-fucking-zombie-ninjas. Yup. Though now you have to explain why the zombie ninjas would be fucking robots.)

Prosody, shmosody—
Foul-mouthed phonologists
Ought to learn how to act
More like adults:
"Expletive infix" be-
longs in the Journal of
Irreproducible
Fucking Results.


I amend my statement; the only real requirement is that at least one unstressed syllable precede the infix. DAH-duh-fucking-duh-DAH works. I just can't think of a four-syllable word with stress on the first and last syllable.

Oh, and it definitely helps if the infix is followed by a consonant. Interest-fucking-ingly just sounds stuttery.
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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby ygp » Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:14 am UTC

I believe the term for this is Tmesis, although Wikipedia also has a short article on Expletive infixation, which even cites some rules for this.

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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby Djehutynakht » Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:26 am UTC

Yeah, I don't think it works for Ridiculous any way you go about it.

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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby BlitzGirl » Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:32 am UTC

Djehutynakht wrote:Yeah, I don't think it works for Ridiculous any way you go about it.

I kind of like ri-fucking-diculous.
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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby zyxw59 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:32 am UTC

Djehutynakht wrote:Yeah, I don't think it works for Ridiculous any way you go about it.

ri-fucking-diculous

edit: ninja'd

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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby Djehutynakht » Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:45 am UTC

Okay, I can kind of see it.

I think it works a bit better pronouncing the first syllable "Ree" instead of "Rih", but I can live with it.

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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby bitwiseshiftleft » Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:55 am UTC

Arancaytar wrote:I amend my statement; the only real requirement is that at least one unstressed syllable precede the infix. DAH-duh-fucking-duh-DAH works.


The paper I linked proposes that, more or less, the word should be parsed into metrical feet according to certain rules, and the expletive must be inserted on foot boundaries. An example which has an expletive following a stress is "fan-fucking-tastic".

This also supports "ri-fucking-diculous", which personally I think sounds best if the first syllable is de-stressed into a schwa.

Edit: The Wikipedia article on this actually gives a more complete summary on the paper.
Last edited by bitwiseshiftleft on Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:01 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby Diadem » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:00 am UTC

bitwiseshiftleft wrote:"Expletive infix"

It must be awesome to get to write a paper like that. I'm pretty sure I'd be cackling like a mad-fuckin-man all day long if I were writing something like that.
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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby orthogon » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:12 am UTC

ygp wrote:I believe the term for this is Tmesis, although Wikipedia also has a short article on Expletive infixation, which even cites some rules for this.


"I've had it with you and your t-fucking-mesis!"
"I think you'll find the 'tm' is an initial consonant cluster: it should be 'tm-fucking-esis'".

Klear is going to be gutted that someone got in first with tmesis.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby Platypodes » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:21 am UTC

I think I understood from Wiki-fucking-pedia that the only requirement is that the syllable immediately following the "fucking" be stressed*--no rules about the preceding syllables.

WFP also offers up John Wayne's "ri-goddamn-diculous," which I thought had a nicer ring to it than "ri-fucking-diculous."


*If you're stressed immediately following the fucking, you might be doing it wrong.
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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby speising » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:40 am UTC

ri - wait for it - diculous.

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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby Klear » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:42 am UTC

orthogon wrote:Klear is going to be gutted that someone got in first with tmesis.


I was just about to write this.

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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby BlitzGirl » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:09 am UTC

speising wrote:ri - wait for it - diculous.

What is...the OTT?
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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby cellocgw » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:17 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:
speising wrote:ri - wait for it - diculous.

What is...the OTT?


You mean the OTFT?

But what I re-fucking-ally want to know is, what happens when you get recursive?

Code: Select all

foo<- "fucking"
while(TRUE) {
     foo<- paste('fuck',foo,'ing')
}
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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby Klear » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:49 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:But what I re-fucking-ally want to know is, what happens when you get recursive?


You'll get an in-tme-fucking-sis-ception.

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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby roband » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:53 pm UTC

Abso-fucking-lutely Bob.

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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby orthogon » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:57 pm UTC

Klear wrote:
cellocgw wrote:But what I re-fucking-ally want to know is, what happens when you get recursive?


You'll get an in-tme-fucking-sis-ception.

Rule 2 of Tmesis Club: No re-fucking-cursion.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby Kit. » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:00 pm UTC

No.

Just that in order to do it properly, you need to find a "host" infix that is either multi-morpheme or not primarily stressed at its first syllable. Or both.

Un-uncle-tmesis-fucking-believable.

ETA:
Spoiler:
There is an alternative to the inner infix, but it's too graphic

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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby Plutarch » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:21 pm UTC

I don't see the point of this word formation. Is 'ri-fucking-diculous' any better than 'fucking ridiculous?' It doesn't seem to give any more emphasis, and to me it sounds forced.

On the general subject of expletives, I was reading an article yesterday - possibly in one of these 'lists of 10 things' sites, so not really a reliable source - about British swear words which were starting to be used in America. One of these was 'bloody.' I like 'bloody,' it's a good expletive. Gives some emphasis, without being too rude. You can say 'bloody ridiculous' to your parents and it's fine. ( My parents and their contemporaries would use it often, though they'd never say 'fucking.') Is 'bloody' really entering American speech? I don't think I've heard it yet on any American TV show or film.

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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby Klear » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:25 pm UTC

Kit. wrote:No.

Just that in order to do it properly, you need to find a "host" infix that is either multi-morpheme or not primarily stressed at its first syllable. Or both.

Un-uncle-tmesis-fucking-believable.

ETA:
Spoiler:
There is an alternative to the inner infix, but it's too graphic


That looks too messy and sounds like you're just saying unrelated words.

@Plutarch
'ri-fucking-diculous' doesn't have the right punch, "in-fucking-credible" is clearly superior to "fucking incredible" in some situations.

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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby speising » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:32 pm UTC

it implies that you are too ex-fucking-cited to line up your expletives properly before speaking.

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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby ThemePark » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:48 pm UTC

This thread is gonna be legenda...Wait for it...ry.

BlitzGirl wrote:
Djehutynakht wrote:Yeah, I don't think it works for Ridiculous any way you go about it.

I kind of like ri-fucking-diculous.


QFT.

cellocgw wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:
speising wrote:ri - wait for it - diculous.

What is...the OTT?


You mean the OTFT?

But what I re-fucking-ally want to know is, what happens when you get recursive?

Code: Select all

foo<- "fucking"
while(TRUE) {
     foo<- paste('fuck',foo,'ing')
}


Then the fuck hits the fan.
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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby DougDean » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:05 pm UTC

Actually, since he inserts it before a stressed syllable, his version doesn't sound all that awkward. It could even be interpreted as a subtle threat (or incentive, perhaps) to her.

Her response, on the other hand...

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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby Kit. » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:09 pm UTC

Klear wrote:
Kit. wrote:No.

Just that in order to do it properly, you need to find a "host" infix that is either multi-morpheme or not primarily stressed at its first syllable. Or both.

Un-uncle-tmesis-fucking-believable.

ETA:
Spoiler:
There is an alternative to the inner infix, but it's too graphic

That looks too messy and sounds like you're just saying unrelated words.

That's because of the 'tmesis' part.

Spoiler:
OK.. replace it with 'bloody' and imagine it said with Cartman's voice.

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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby ahammel » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:13 pm UTC

According to my old linguistics prof, the 'fucking' in 'abso-fucking-lutely' doesn't count as an infix for some reason. She was too busy asking me not to say 'abso-fucking-lutely' in class anymore to explain why.
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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby Klear » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:15 pm UTC

Kit. wrote:That's because of the 'tmesis' part.

Spoiler:
OK.. replace it with 'bloody' and imagine it said with Cartman's voice.


A little better, but I'm still bothered by the "un-uncle" part.

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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby cellocgw » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:17 pm UTC

Plutarch wrote:On the general subject of expletives, I was reading an article yesterday - possibly in one of these 'lists of 10 things' sites, so not really a reliable source - about British swear words which were starting to be used in America. One of these was 'bloody.' I like 'bloody,' it's a good expletive. Gives some emphasis, without being too rude. You can say 'bloody ridiculous' to your parents and it's fine. ( My parents and their contemporaries would use it often, though they'd never say 'fucking.') Is 'bloody' really entering American speech? I don't think I've heard it yet on any American TV show or film.


Similarly, we all can thank BSG for introducing the (for now) allowable word "frakking," (not to be confused with "fracking" which is fucking up the environfuckingment) even though it's completely obvious what it means.
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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby cellocgw » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:18 pm UTC

ThemePark wrote:This thread is gonna be legenda...Wait for it...ry.


Don't you mean legenchirpingdary? (I know I split a syllable but I like the sound better this way)
Last edited by cellocgw on Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:19 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby Carlington » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:18 pm UTC

Prosody in English is particularly complex, which means that the rules for expletive infixation often seem quite arbitrary. This is not the case - there are a set of rules that describe it well, it's just that those rules are very involved, since English stress patterns and foot structures are all over the place. (One rule for nouns, another for verbs, and so on.)
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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby Klear » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:33 pm UTC

Carlington wrote:Prosody in English is particularly complex, which means that the rules for expletive infixation often seem quite arbitrary. This is not the case - there are a set of rules that describe it well, it's just that those rules are very involved, since English stress patterns and foot structures are all over the place. (One rule for nouns, another for verbs, and so on.)


Based on what wiki-fucking-pedia has to say about it:

A simple rule is that the insertion occurs at a syllable boundary, usually just before the primary stressed syllable.[1] Thus, one hears abso-fuckin'-lutely rather than *ab-fuckin'-solutely. This rule is insufficient to describe examples such as un-fuckin'-believable, however, so modifications to this rule are proposed such as morpheme boundaries taking precedence over stress. Counterexamples to this exception do exist: unbe-fuckin'-lievable.[3]

A more fundamental theory due to John McCarthy is based on prosody.[2] Its basic principle is that "the metrical stress tree of the host is minimally restructured to accommodate the stress tree of the infix". For example, although unbelievable and irresponsible have identical stress patterns, and the first syllable of each is a separate morpheme, the preferred insertion points are different: un-fuckin'-believable, but irre-fuckin'-sponsible. McCarthy explains this by saying they have different prosodic structures: un(be((lieva)ble)), but (irre)((sponsi)ble). The infix cannot fall between the syllables ir and re because they form a single prosodic foot.


...it seems to me these rules are an attempt to explain the usage, rather than a prescript on how to use this.

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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby jozwa » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:55 pm UTC

Have we ever had so much profanity in one strip?

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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby Soup » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:26 pm UTC

jozwa wrote:Have we ever had so much pro-fucking-fanity in one strip?

:mrgreen:
Waiting for it...

Go username5243, musthavebeenmykarma, Rakhal, thunk!!

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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby Kit. » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:40 pm UTC

jozwa wrote:Have we ever had so much profanity in one strip?

Yep, in this one.

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Re: 1290: "Syllable Planning"

Postby Sprocket » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:02 pm UTC

Least interesting XKCD ever.
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