1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

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airdrik
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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby airdrik » Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:20 pm UTC

PinkShinyRose wrote:
airdrik wrote:I'm getting the impression that Randall has a "thing" for extra-solar planets (which I have to admit, it is exciting to be finding out that there are that many habitable planets within a single life-span's journey from here. We just need to locate a couple, collect some data, send out some probes, collect some more data, and then we should be able to send some colonists, hopefully within the next 50 years).

McHell wrote:Is the empty zone around the earth solely created by forgetting our solar system's planets?

Our solar system's planets were excluded by the "Habitable-Zone" qualifier.

It also says exoplanet neighbourhood, then again, it also displays earth. Isn't Mars within the habitable zone? I suppose we should try getting there before going to some planet much further away.

Good point (doing some actual research brings up that Venus is as well (barely) (and Ceres if you want to count dwarf planets)). Perhaps he excluded those because we know that they are known to be uninhabited/able?

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Re: 1298: "Exoplanet Neighborhood"

Postby Flumble » Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:51 pm UTC

davidstarlingm wrote:Seriously, right? Accelerating that cup of sugar out of your neighbor's gravity well and slowing it down on entry into our own is going to cost you at least 5e7 joules.

You're going to use that interstellar space elevator, right?
Or do you perhaps use a slingshot to hand your neighbour a cup of sugar? :shock:

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Re: 1298: "Exoplanet Neighborhood"

Postby davidstarlingm » Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:53 pm UTC

Flumble wrote:
davidstarlingm wrote:Seriously, right? Accelerating that cup of sugar out of your neighbor's gravity well and slowing it down on entry into our own is going to cost you at least 5e7 joules.

You're going to use that interstellar space elevator, right?
Or do you perhaps use a slingshot to hand your neighbour a cup of sugar? :shock:

Hmm....I forgot to factor in the gravity well of Sol. It's actually closer to 1.5e11 joules.

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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby Wnderer » Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:55 pm UTC

PinkShinyRose wrote:It also says exoplanet neighbourhood, then again, it also displays earth. Isn't Mars within the habitable zone? I suppose we should try getting there before going to some planet much further away.


I'd rather see a robotic mission to Europa's Ocean than a manned mission to Mars. I'm curious to know what is down there.

http://science.time.com/2013/12/02/more ... -main-lead

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Re: 1298: It's called "Exoplanet Neighborhood" now

Postby Envelope Generator » Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:55 pm UTC

Flumble wrote:
PinkShinyRose wrote:
Envelope Generator wrote:I think it's a particularly evil joke and will not be fixed soon.

What if it was a mistake and is kept as an evil joke?

All the texts are switched around now. I prefer the old title — it's demoted to pop-up text. :(


Darn. It was so consistent with things like "Slideshow" that satirize terrible accessibility fails in web design.
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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby josephers » Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:06 pm UTC

Ah, this is one of the rare ones that don't use the XKCD font.

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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby dudiobugtron » Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:13 pm UTC

Image

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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby suso » Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:09 pm UTC

What I'm wondering is why the Earth is at the center (or near center) of this diagram? Are we still that arrogant?
Imagine theres no signatures....

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davidstarlingm
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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby davidstarlingm » Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:13 pm UTC

suso wrote:What I'm wondering is why the Earth is at the center (or near center) of this diagram? Are we still that arrogant?

Presumably because "neighborhood" is typically defined by a given radius from wherever you live.

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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby Draco18s » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:55 pm UTC

suso wrote:What I'm wondering is why the Earth is at the center (or near center) of this diagram? Are we still that arrogant?


Well we are at the center of the visible universe...

Semi-related:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4c-gX9MT1Q

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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby J L » Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:04 pm UTC

da Doctah wrote:
J L wrote:And why are some planets darker than others, regardless of size?
That you ask this question may indicate some unaddressed racist leanings.

I'm almost convinced I'll find the humor in your comment if I try hard enough. It must be down there somewhere ... let me take another look.

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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby mfb » Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:26 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:Anyway, I vote for graphics fail, because it's not crystal-clear that the planets are represented in diameter scale. What if the discs represent volume? That would make more sense, since the gravitational force, and thus habitability, depends more on volume than diameter. But then we'd need a density (rock vs. gas giant) indicator, and a distance_from_star indicator, and all in all some huge FOM to get a real habitability scale.
For homogeneous objects, surface gravitational acceleration is proportional to density*radius.

Mars and Venus could be in the graphic - it does not matter, as two planets are not significant anyway. The position does not mean anything.

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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby brenok » Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:49 pm UTC

mfb wrote:
cellocgw wrote:Anyway, I vote for graphics fail, because it's not crystal-clear that the planets are represented in diameter scale. What if the discs represent volume? That would make more sense, since the gravitational force, and thus habitability, depends more on volume than diameter. But then we'd need a density (rock vs. gas giant) indicator, and a distance_from_star indicator, and all in all some huge FOM to get a real habitability scale.
For homogeneous objects, surface gravitational acceleration is proportional to density*radius.

Mars and Venus could be in the graphic - it does not matter, as two planets are not significant anyway. The position does not mean anything.

As was noted before, Mars and Venus are not exoplanets.

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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby edo » Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:12 am UTC

The first thing I thought when I saw the comic is "OK, who farted?"

brenok wrote:As was noted before, Mars and Venus are not exoplanets.
and I will note that the body of the comic doesn't require that the "planets" be exoplanets, just "planets".

I think that he just didn't code any distance information, which is a shame, cuz he really could have, I think, and it would have naturally left some space around earth, from the whole R2 versus R3 thing mentioned earlier.
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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby chenille » Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:45 am UTC

suso wrote:What I'm wondering is why the Earth is at the center (or near center) of this diagram? Are we still that arrogant?

As people have said, Earth is where we're observing the universe from, so it makes sense as a center. This chart is geocentric in another way too, though, in that the planets are all shown for how similar they are to ours - selected because they have similar radiation levels, color-coded for having similar suns and sizes.

Which is not uninteresting to see! So long as we're not going to colonize them or expecting to find aliens any time soon, though, I wish I heard a little bit more about the diversity of planets that are out there instead. I guess the problem is that right now there's just the beginnings of statistical distributions for sizes and distances, which doesn't lend itself to putting them all in nice categories like "diamond planet", "class M", or "vinylogous world".

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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby barasawa » Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:59 am UTC

WARNING
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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby barasawa » Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:03 am UTC

suso wrote:What I'm wondering is why the Earth is at the center (or near center) of this diagram? Are we still that arrogant?


They tried leaving us off of the map, or otherwise moving it to the edge, but as it includes things within 60 light years of this solar system, they all looked really stupid and lopsided. I guess it's a matter of aesthetics. Well, that and mathematics, you know, the foci of any circle is always going to be in the middle. :lol: :wink:

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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:51 am UTC

Makri wrote:I'm still confused. Planets vary according to colour, darkness, and size. Colour encodes the kind of star they orbit, and darkness presumably encodes whether it's earth-sized. Then what does size encode?
Size encodes size. I'm honestly a bit dumbfounded by how confusing some people are by this. Location means nothing, color means sunlike or non-sunlike star, and the darker versions of each color simply highlight "Earth-sized" planets (as mentioned, this is taken to mean a radius between 1 and 2 times Earth's).

Flumble wrote:
Jackpot777 wrote:Oh, this? It's a picture of a fish. Or a lot of exoplanets.
You do know that colourblind people have the ability to open an image manipulation application, don't you?
Indeed. Simply changing the hue (on an unfamiliar program where I can't find the levels manipulation) does the trick.

Fuck you trichromat freaks, too!
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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby ThemePark » Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:10 am UTC

Plutarch wrote:Is this a colour-blindness test? Is there a hidden message? Because I always fail those.

Yes, and the answer is 42.
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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby Flumble » Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:39 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Fuck you trichromat freaks, too!

Hey, it's not like we chose to have 3 working types of light receptors!
If it were that easy, I'd definitely be walking around with infrared sight.

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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby mathmannix » Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:25 pm UTC

Clix wrote:My first thought on seeing this:

"Was it something we said?"


I seem to be having tremendous difficulty with my lifestyle.
I hear velociraptor tastes like chicken.

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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby rmsgrey » Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:28 pm UTC

Flumble wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:Fuck you trichromat freaks, too!

Hey, it's not like we chose to have 3 working types of light receptors!
If it were that easy, I'd definitely be walking around with infrared sight.


Some people are tetrachromats - there are two major versions of the red cone in the general population, and some people have both...

Also:

Fuck people I find reasonably attractive (provided they consent)!

(what? Am I getting it wrong?)

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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby addams » Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:01 am UTC

rmsgrey wrote:
Flumble wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:Fuck you trichromat freaks, too!

Hey, it's not like we chose to have 3 working types of light receptors!
If it were that easy, I'd definitely be walking around with infrared sight.


Some people are tetrachromats - there are two major versions of the red cone in the general population, and some people have both...

Also:

Fuck people I find reasonably attractive (provided they consent)!

(what? Am I getting it wrong?)

nope. You got it right. That is a good working motto for a life.
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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby Makri » Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:26 am UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Size encodes size. I'm honestly a bit dumbfounded by how confusing some people are by this.


Explanation: circles with visibly different diameters are dark. It might be within the 1-2 times the earth's radius rule, although without measuring, I would guess that some of the dark circles have more than 2 times the earth-circle's radius. Worse, there is one diameter for which you find both dark and non-dark planets. Depending on how actual size is mapped to the size-categories of the circles in the picture, this may make sense - but it is a bit confusig.
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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby Eternal Density » Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:36 am UTC

Draco18s wrote:
suso wrote:What I'm wondering is why the Earth is at the center (or near center) of this diagram? Are we still that arrogant?


Well we are at the center of the visible universe...
Haha!

Well quantized redshifts do seem to indicate that our galaxy is about the centre, in intergalactic terms of scale.
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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby davidstarlingm » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:44 pm UTC

Eternal Density wrote:
Draco18s wrote:
suso wrote:What I'm wondering is why the Earth is at the center (or near center) of this diagram? Are we still that arrogant?


Well we are at the center of the visible universe...
Haha!

Well quantized redshifts do seem to indicate that our galaxy is about the centre, in intergalactic terms of scale.

I'm not sure this is accurate.

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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby Crosshair » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:31 am UTC

airdrik wrote:Good point (doing some actual research brings up that Venus is as well (barely) (and Ceres if you want to count dwarf planets)). Perhaps he excluded those because we know that they are known to be uninhabited/able?


Venus touches the habital zone, but most of the time is well outside it. Mars is well beyond the commonly accepted habital zone. The light green area is an extended possible habital zone, but it is speculative and the more conservative dark green zone is far more accepted

Image

Of course, a planet being in the habital zone is like getting one number on a lottery ticket, better than nothing, but still nowhere close to getting the jackpot. There is a large number of perquisites for complex life to exist and, statistically speaking, it's very likely that life does not exist on any of these planets.

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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby addams » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:57 pm UTC

So carbon centric and water dependent.

Open your mind and let your body go.
Scary? ok. Don't.
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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby rmsgrey » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:11 pm UTC

Crosshair wrote:Of course, a planet being in the habital zone is like getting one number on a lottery ticket, better than nothing, but still nowhere close to getting the jackpot. There is a large number of perquisites for complex life to exist and, statistically speaking, it's very likely that life does not exist on any of these planets.


a) I think you meant "pre-requisites" - perquisites are the things employees get as non-wage compensation for doing their job - insurance, limited raiding of the stationery cupboard, use of a company car, etc.

b) I would be surprised if none of the other planets within 60 light years of Earth had life, but only disappointed if none of them had complex life. As far as I know, no-one has any actual data to support anything more definite than "Earth developed life pretty much as soon as it was habitable, but then took ages to develop complex life, so it's reasonable that other planets could develop life easily but not complex life but we really don't know."

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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby davidstarlingm » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:59 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:
Crosshair wrote:Of course, a planet being in the habital zone is like getting one number on a lottery ticket, better than nothing, but still nowhere close to getting the jackpot. There is a large number of perquisites for complex life to exist and, statistically speaking, it's very likely that life does not exist on any of these planets.


a) I think you meant "pre-requisites" - perquisites are the things employees get as non-wage compensation for doing their job - insurance, limited raiding of the stationery cupboard, use of a company car, etc.

b) I would be surprised if none of the other planets within 60 light years of Earth had life, but only disappointed if none of them had complex life. As far as I know, no-one has any actual data to support anything more definite than "Earth developed life pretty much as soon as it was habitable, but then took ages to develop complex life, so it's reasonable that other planets could develop life easily but not complex life but we really don't know."

AFAIK, the development of any sort of life requires a stable fluid medium dense enough to suspend cell-sized objects. At minimum.

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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby mathmannix » Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:04 pm UTC

1. I thought perquisites were delicious pills that take away pain.

b. My interpretation of this comic has always been, not that we will find life on these planets, but that we can put life on these planets. Delicious Human life. The odds of finding Vulcans on a planet orbiting 40 Eridani A, 16.5 light years away, are very low. But the odds are not extremely low of 40 Eridani A having a rocky planet in its habitable zone. Perhaps, in a thousand years or less, we can become the Vulcans.

EDIT - Because, honestly, it would be cool at first to find microbe-level life on Mars, or Europa, or 40 Eridani A, etc. - but then the novelty would fade, and we would want to make use of the other planets to gather resources, and then spread out. (As a famous Klingon once said, we need breathing room.)
I hear velociraptor tastes like chicken.

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Re: 1298: "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!"

Postby Klear » Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:18 pm UTC

mathmannix wrote:Perhaps, in a thousand years or less, we can become the Vulcans.


I can do that thing with the fingers, so it seems we're progressing nicely.


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